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Military history: Russian & Soviet Start‑class

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I am disputing this thing's capability to detect and engage stealth aircraft and am removing the statement until verifiable information on the subject is found. Jtrainor 22:07, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

The missilethreat.com link mentions it, but that's the best you're gonna get unless there will be a big war anytime soon. -Dammit 11:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I am disputing the ability of stealth aircraft to be effective against new radars until proven otherwise. Please provide evidence that stealth works. So far, with S-125 being able to intercept F-117, it is very possible that S-400 with newest radar with 600 km range detection can detect and intercept stealth aircraft. Pavel.

I have found many sources about anti stealth here are some, http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/1999/FTS19990821000218.htm , http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/1999/FTS19990505000617.htm , http://www.missilethreat.com/systems/s-400.html (RabbitHead 18:24, 10 June 2006 (UTC))

I am adding it again since there are sources that say that it can detect stealth. (RabbitHead 10:43, 12 June 2006 (UTC))

All those links say that Russia CLAIMS that they can detect stealth. They don't prove that it can.

The Russians do not have a very good record on technical claims. Jtrainor 14:14, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

So anything and everything said by a russian must be a lie?, The last link http://www.missilethreat.com/systems/s-400.html is very creditabel, also I dont know if you know but a Stealth bomber was shoot down in kosovo in 1999 with old Soviet equipment if old Soviet eq can shot down a stealth bomber then the newest russian should also be able to http://en.wikipedia.org/F-117_Nighthawk (RabbitHead 15:36, 15 June 2006 (UTC))

Well, stealth is a pretty vague term, and any stealth aircraft can be detected (just at a lower range), so how about we drop the stealth part of that sentence but leave the rest of the sentence in there? That would hopefully keep everyone content. - Dammit 16:28, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

But it can shoot down stealth aircraft and there are sources that say so. I could give even more sources if so needed. (RabbitHead 16:31, 15 June 2006 (UTC))

It definitely should be mentioned, perhaps it could be worded differently. It could say "The S-400 is claimed to possess advanced capabilities for detecting and engaging low RCS aircraft.", or something similar. "Stealth" aircraft are nothing magical, they simply have a much lower radar cross section than conventional aircraft, it was only a matter of time before extremely powerful radar systems came out that could detect them, or other methods to detect them were developed and integrated with SAM systems. And considering the S-400 is a continuation of the S-300 series, which although like most modern military equipment isn't combat proven, is very widely regarded to be the most advanced in the world, I don't doubt that the S-400 has at least some ability to detect and destroy "stealth" aircraft. I think that the sentence I suggested is objective and appropriate, so I am going to include it in the article. --Skyler Streng 18:36, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

That works for me. Glad we can resolve this without having an NPOV argument over some Russian missile all of 3 people here will care about :) Jtrainor 17:26, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Fantastic. :] --Skyler Streng 19:29, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Just so you guys know the SAM that hit that F-117 back in 1999 was not guided in by radar. The F-117 ended up flying over a rather intact battery of SAMs and it was spotted visually, probably with the aid of night vision and infra-red systems. They then fired a salvo of manually guided SAMs and one exploded close enough to force the pilot to eject. The long wavelength of the radar used with the SA-3 could occasionally detect the F-117 for short times at certain angles but not nearly enough to track it or launch a missile. The Russians will have said other radars can track stealth aircraft but do they have any stealth aircraft to test it on? Interested Reader

Is the original Russian diviziya or divizion here?

18 divisions of S-400 are planned for purchaise to 2015

It is probably divizion (battalion), but please check, because in English "division" implies a very big unit.

divizion (дивизион), of course! But I aint sure that battalion is a proper translation for divizion (couple of batteries). --jno 09:11, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Big missile

Is it known if the "big missile" is deployed or not? Profhobby 20:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

It's too early to talk about actual deployment (see above). --jno 09:12, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I have seen news reports that the S-400 systems are being deployed. But, with what missiles? My impression is that the big missile is not yet ready and is not being deployed. Profhobby 02:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Errr... Which one? 5V55* and 48N6E* missiles bigger than newer 9M96E*, but smaller than the latest one (no GRAU index known so far). The biggest missile for S-300/400 family will be available by the end of 2006

Note, most equipment is identical (or upgraded) to those of S-300PMU series: 5P85S and 5P85T launchers (8..12), 36N6, 64N6 and 76N6 radars, 83M6 control post. Single launcher can carry 4 the newest SARH/ARH missiles or 4 9M96E*

Planned re-arming rate is 2 regiments (of total 35) in a year --jno 12:45, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I deleted the claim that S-400 has twice the range of Patriot and 2 and a half range of S-300 PMU-2, that implies S-300 has lower range than Patriot, while in fact it has much longer range.

Renaming of the Page

Hadn't we decided to stick with the Russian designations now that they are available? Why change it now to the NATO designation. For older Soviet missiles, this makes some sense because everyone in the West remembers the NATO designation, but this is not true for the newer weapons. I doubt anybody is any more familiar with SA-20 or SA-21 than the S-300 or S-400. Please explain the reason for the change. Kazuaki Shimazaki 01:55, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

JFYI: Name origin

Just like many other names of soviet/russian weapon systems, this one was taken from the special list of codenames, but initially it was "Triumfator", which was shortened to "Triumf". This explanation was picked up from a private talks with development team member. --jno 09:27, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

S-400M Samodyerzhets

This is supposedly part of the S-400 family after Almaz and Antey merged, but I must wonder what's the rationale. For antimissile purposes, the new 40N6 ("big" missile) is superior (at least as opined by Russian unclassified sources) to the 9M82M in range, max engagement speed (and thus the range of the IRBM it could counter). Similarly, any of the 48N6 series is superior in range to the 9M82. Even the little dinky 9M96M/E2 has a longer range! So there is no apparent need to 'combine the far range of the S-300VM missile and the advanced electronics of the S-400 missile'. Is there a good explanation for this (or even an official explanation? Kazuaki Shimazaki 13:53, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Image

Any cules on what this thing looks like. Obviously it will be hard to get a picture of it as it is reletivly new. And secondly any clues on the future operators of the system, other then China. Thanks, Bogdan 18:48, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

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