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Military history: European / Polish Start‑class

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An entry from Cursed soldiers appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 18 August, 2006.

Cursed soldiers was nominated as a good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (August 23, 2006). There are suggestions below for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

A well-writen article

The editors are to be commended. While I do not have Polish languaage skills to verify the references, I thouht the article was well written (and well translated). It dealt with what is clearly a touchy subject while retaining NPOV.

I did some very light copyediting to make date formats consistent, add some definitive articles that seemed to be missing, replace the abbreviation ps. with pseudonym, eliminate a few run-on sentences, and make all spellings American English (there were only a few thaat were British, such as realised, while the rest were American). Twisted86 05:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

• I second the commendation! I think the original article was written in British English, but little enough remained that removing the remainder was probably the simplest path. --Askari Mark | Talk 01:44, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Failed "Good Article" nomination

Hello, the reasons why I failed it:

1. There is nothing more than just history.
2. The huge red list is plain ugly.
3. It has only 4 sources, and it's quite obvious that most of the article was taken just from one of them. Dealing with such a sensitive subject it's is clearly not enough.
4. Some "heroic" phrasing borders on POV. 3 quick examples: "...when the (imprisoned) AK and WiN leaders realized their mistake..." & "The NKVD and UB were certainly not beyond using force" & "For the crime of fighting for their homeland..."
5. I think the article needs a bit more time to settle down. Editors with different perspectives should have time to review it. Renata 03:37, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Regarding some of the objections, I'd like to note that most of the text (history...) was taken from AK article, which is a GA itself. But you raise good point that compared to AK it has too little about structure and such. Not sure if I agree with all of your 'heroic' style comments, but if somebody would like to NPOV it, then that would be great.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  20:27, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Article from modern newspaper article as a source for remote history

Most of this page is based on and article in a Polish newspaper. Do we know anything about the author of this newspaper article and his credentials of historian? --Irpen 05:15, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

The author is Andrzej Kaczyński. Short bio in English. He seems to be a prominent journalist of that newspaper (with the rank of an editor (redaktor) - , , ) with dozens of articles, many of them about Polish history. Some of his articles have even been translated into English, particulary the ones dealing with Jedwabne, and published for example by JewishGen - it was so notable he even got mentioned in an English books (, ) - a no small feat for non-English journalist, as I am sure you'd agree. Even more importantly, he has been cited by academics: for example, by Marek Jan Chodakiewicz: , and possibly here ( - couldn't check full text right away, but got a hit for his name) and here ( - as far as I can tell from the snippet). Chodakiewicz also seems to cite him in this book but the snippets are broken. I hope this proves he is an estabilished, reliable journalist with much experience in writing about Polish history.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  07:13, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Lot's of water and no answer. Let me repeat the question then. Is he a historian? --Irpen 19:46, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

He is reliable per WP:RS. That's all there is to it, as has been discussed at Talk:Przyszowice massacre and in many different places.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  20:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

All right, so now without answering a question I did not ask (we will get to that later) I repeat. Is he a historian? --Irpen 20:24, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know. Still, since we are talking about events from about 40 to 60 years ago, with some of the participants still living, why would this be a priori excluded from the province of journalism? When does history end and journalism begin? Balcer 05:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Since you don't know and no one knows of any academic credentials of the author, the article on a historic subject needs rewriting based on something more serious than an article in a modern newspaper. And times of WW2 and immediately after it is certainly history rather than current events. --Irpen 05:34, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

As has been pointed to you at Talk:Przyszowice massacre, newspapers are quite reliable; besides, the author of the articles is much more reliable than some historians. This article fits WP:RS, please stop arguing without any policy to back you up.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  07:02, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Please stop disrupting the integrity of an encyclopedia through writing articles about hisotry referenced to newspapers. Since you refuse to correct, the article tagged. --Irpen 08:28, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

As has been explained to you on Talk:Przyszowice massacre, and our policies cited numerous times, the information is reliable. Please stop disrupting the project by misusing tags.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  17:53, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Icorrect, no policies were clearly cited and invited editors were split on the issue whether newspaper writings by an author with no credentials in history can are reliable. Not only the source is unreliable, but the entire article is based on a single (and unacceptable) source. I will mark it as such as well. Instead of revert warring, I suggest you improve the article and its sourcing. --Irpen 18:24, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Name of the article

I don't think "cursed" is the best translation of the original word "wyklęci". It's more like a copy to English, which does not reflect its meaning. The word in question comes from polish word for curse, but has different connotation. It's something between outcast, expelled or banished and condemned or damned, with the latter two being closest in my opinion. The meaning of original phrase "Żołnierze wyklęci" has that kind of connotation. The other way, from English to Polish "cursed" would be "przeklęci", and not "wyklęci". These are not the synonims, and "cursed soldiers" sounds like inaccurate translation to me.

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