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Revision as of 12:21, 10 June 2007 editDigwuren (talk | contribs)11,308 edits []: Removed bad-faith comment signs.← Previous edit Revision as of 12:26, 10 June 2007 edit undoGhirlandajo (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers89,629 edits []Next edit →
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*'''Keep''', the ''subject'' is notable enough, per ], but the title is problematic. --<font color="Red">]</font> <sup><font color="Blue">]</font></sup> 11:30, 10 June 2007 (UTC) *'''Keep''', the ''subject'' is notable enough, per ], but the title is problematic. --<font color="Red">]</font> <sup><font color="Blue">]</font></sup> 11:30, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per above. See also ], ], ], ], ], ] etc. It would be very suspicious if Estonian national awakening didn't exist, so I have to agree with DLX. As to the titles, both are perfectly ok, as "the Estonian Age of Awakening" is the most natural translation of the Estonian term, while "Estonian national awakening" is modelled after all these. ] 11:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC) *'''Keep''' per above. See also ], ], ], ], ], ] etc. It would be very suspicious if Estonian national awakening didn't exist, so I have to agree with DLX. As to the titles, both are perfectly ok, as "the Estonian Age of Awakening" is the most natural translation of the Estonian term, while "Estonian national awakening" is modelled after all these. ] 11:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
*:"It would be very suspicious if Estonian national awakening didn't exist"? Words fail me. Once Scotland gains independence from the Great Britain, you will learn that there has been the "Great Age of Scottish Awakening" between 1990 and 2010. A decade later, you will learn about the "Age of Texan Awakening" between 2010 and 2020, if Texas is lucky enough to break away from the US. That's how such "historical constructs" are made. The process is similar to an assembly line. In retrospect, every nation considers it proper to have a "national awakening" at some of its history, although the nation's independence may have been a matter of sheer luck or, as in the present case, Lenin's complaints about the "prison of nations" coupled with the Germans' desire to set up a puppet statelet immediately to the west from the Russian capital. --]<sup>]</sup> 12:26, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 12:26, 10 June 2007

Estonian Age of Awakening

Estonian Age of Awakening (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
I decided to withdraw the nomination, as at least one reference has been provided during the AfD process. --Ghirla 11:18, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
After I nominated this stub for deletion, I found myself the victim to a campaign of persecution and harrassment organized by a group of well-known extremist editors whose activities are coordinated from Estonian Misplaced Pages. After User:Petri Krohn stepped in to improve the article and demonstrated that the concept was recently introduced as a "historical construct" in some obscure Estonian publications, I withdrew my nomination. Nevertheless, people with a certain ideological background kept harrassing me in droves, throwing accusations of "bad faith" on my talk page, and three more persons added their votes to the inactive nomination by this point. My attempts to close the nomination were reverted. This prompts me to abandon the trollfest in disgust. --Ghirla 12:02, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I would like to see rule that prohibits people adding their opinion before official closing by admin. Also I find personal attacks like well-known extremist editors highly inappropriate.--Staberinde 12:10, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I am glad you saw the light but need to point out that the difference presented is not mere addition of a source but replacement of an Estonica link with its English translation. Digwuren 11:26, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
BTW, note the tiny difference in search term and difference in results. --Alexia Death 22:53, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Search for disparate terms does not prove anything. This is beyond discussion. --Ghirla 22:57, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Look at the first book it points to. It talks about this very period.--Alexia Death 23:00, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Also gives to references to "Age of awakening" in the context of Estonians. I hpe this makes you see that I have not made this term up.--Alexia Death 23:04, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep The term is a direct translation from Estonian "Ärkamisaeg". It is used pessistently in estonian literature and history books. google search shows it a lot. I do not understand the desire to remove this stub. IT needs expanding but has nothing that warrants deletion.--Alexia Death 22:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
If anything is wrong with the title and the current one is not considered to be proper English term then a move is in order, not an AFD. The period on question is in now way "coined by the author of this article". I learned about it from my history books in school.--Alexia Death 23:00, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
  • I speak both Estonian and English, and I can vouch for 'Age of Awakening' being the translation of 'Ärkamisaeg'. 'Estonian' is a qualifier to distinguish this phenomenon from other Ages of Awakening. The main translation field is (Age|Era|Time|Period) of Awakening|. (Standard BNF rules apply.) Digwuren 09:03, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
This is an English language encyclopaedia. If a wikipedian likes to introduce a new term into English historiography, this constitutes a breach of WP:NOR. No evidence has been presented that the term is notable in English-language publications. --Ghirla 08:11, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I understand it's the English-language Misplaced Pages, however the point I'm making refers to the fact that the subject matter itself is notable. The exact article title can be hashed out elsewhere (do we want it in Estonian, in the same way as events which are of significance to other nationalities are frequently titled in their languages? Do we want it in English under this title, assuming it to be the best translation from the Estonian original? Do we want it in English and under another title, as a contributor below is arguing, on the grounds that a better translation exists?), but that's not important here. If something is notable, it's notable. It's always better to have English-language sources to prove that in an English-language encyclopedia, but in lieu thereof, sources in a different language which do the same are A-OK. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 09:37, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Translation doesn't constitute original research, or we should delete half of Misplaced Pages's articles. As to No evidence has been presented that the term is notable in English-language publications -- I have never seen such a requirement in WP rules. Colchicum 12:00, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I seriously think that you should actualy ask opinions of other editors before making such hasty moves of actively discussed articles.--Staberinde 11:32, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
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