| Revision as of 16:41, 18 June 2007 editDigwuren (talk | contribs)11,308 edits Sigh.← Previous edit | Revision as of 17:12, 18 June 2007 edit undoRJ CG (talk | contribs)1,417 edits →Denial of link between Monument of Lihula and Occupation of Estonia. =Next edit → | ||
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| Number of Estonian wikipedians repeatedly remove link to Monument of Lihula page, using factually dubious comments as "factually wrong" and denying link bweteen monument and Nazi collaborators. As monument's dedication to ones who collaborated with Germany's regime of the day is obvious (more than half of article on Monument consists of discussion of Estonian contribution into Waffen SS and article had been target of edit wars started by two of three recent editors of Occupation article, namely Digwuren and DLX), it heavy smells of POV. ] 16:17, 18 June 2007 (UTC) | Number of Estonian wikipedians repeatedly remove link to Monument of Lihula page, using factually dubious comments as "factually wrong" and denying link bweteen monument and Nazi collaborators. As monument's dedication to ones who collaborated with Germany's regime of the day is obvious (more than half of article on Monument consists of discussion of Estonian contribution into Waffen SS and article had been target of edit wars started by two of three recent editors of Occupation article, namely Digwuren and DLX), it heavy smells of POV. ] 16:17, 18 June 2007 (UTC) | ||
| : Face it, your pet Nazis are not in that high regard as you hope. The monument does not honour "Nazi collaborators". It honours the Estonian soldiers previously not honoured because they fought on the "wrong side" -- through no wrongdoing of their own. ] 16:41, 18 June 2007 (UTC) | : Face it, your pet Nazis are not in that high regard as you hope. The monument does not honour "Nazi collaborators". It honours the Estonian soldiers previously not honoured because they fought on the "wrong side" -- through no wrongdoing of their own. ] 16:41, 18 June 2007 (UTC) | ||
| :: I see that there are small but vocal minority of Estonian contributors who keep themselves busy denying collaboration between Estonians and Nazi during WWII or (as in Monument of Lihula case) when link is impossible to deny, trying to minimize it. Good thing is, you guys do understand that Nazi collaboration is bad thing. Another good thing is, you do not understand that all your efforts are futile. Your only increase ppl's interest to the topic with your busy denialism. Keep up the good work :) ] 17:12, 18 June 2007 (UTC) | |||
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Holocaust in Estonia 1941-1944
Is there a credible source available that cites the country where the 75% of Estonian Jews escaped to before German forces arrived? -BStarky 01:45, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
- Why do you think they left for some foreign country across the ocean? After all, they were Soviet citizens in the Soviet Union. Besides, which country would take Jewish refugees in 1940/1941? -- Petri Krohn 02:44, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
- Citizens of the Republic of Estonia, Jewish or otherwise, were commonly accepted by Sweden, for example. Finland and Sweden were common primary targets for refugees in wake of the occupations of Estonia; later, many of these refugees travelled further to Americas (there's a very active Estonian expatriate community in Toronto, for example), Australia and elsewhere. Digwuren 07:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, there are plenty of sources on this. What is more controversial is how many Jews were brought to Estonian camps after this. According to Ilya Altman and Claudio Ingerflom, around 2,000 jews were killed in Estonia during the Holocaust (Ilya Altman & Claudio Ingerflom, Le Kremlin et L'Holocauste, 1933-2001 (afterword). In: Général Petrenko, Avant et après Auschwitz. Paris: Flammarion, 2002. p. 265. ISBN2-0821-0056-1. According to Maripuu, Meelis (2005), Zur sowjetischen Wahrnehmung der Juden in Estland in den Jahren 1944-1963, Zeitschrift für Ostmitteleuropa-Forschung, 54.1, 86-97, "almost all of the approximately 1000 Jews who remained in the country were executed by the German occupying authorities in 1941-1942, who also brought about 12 000 Jews to Estonia from elsewhere in Europe in 1942-1944.", which gives 13,000 at most. says that "Out of the 1 000 Estonian Jews that remained in Estonia 963 were killed, according to the German commander of Special Commando 1A, Walter Stahlecker."... "Evgenia Gurin-Loov said in her book "Eesti juutide katastroof 1941. Holocaust of Estonian Jews 1941" (Tallinn 1994) that 929 were killed. In addition around 5 000 Central European and 2 000 Lithuanian Jews brought by the Nazis to Estonian camps." According to Birn, Ruth Bettina (2001), Collaboration with Nazi Germany in Eastern Europe: the Case of the Estonian Security Police. Contemporary European History 10.2, 181-198, "Approximately 1,000 Jewish Estonians stayed and were killed. Sandberger's own count is 921 persons killed." Where is the truth? Colchicum 16:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Edit warring
Kids, please stop and try to reach a compromise. The name Estonian Self-Administration is at least correct translation of Eesti Omavalitsus (haven't had a chance to check sources), but it is as clear, that it was a puppet government without any real power. So, compromise - name it Estonian Self-Administration, but make it clear it was a puppet of Nazis. DLX 15:58, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Denial of link between Monument of Lihula and Occupation of Estonia. =
Number of Estonian wikipedians repeatedly remove link to Monument of Lihula page, using factually dubious comments as "factually wrong" and denying link bweteen monument and Nazi collaborators. As monument's dedication to ones who collaborated with Germany's regime of the day is obvious (more than half of article on Monument consists of discussion of Estonian contribution into Waffen SS and article had been target of edit wars started by two of three recent editors of Occupation article, namely Digwuren and DLX), it heavy smells of POV. RJ CG 16:17, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
- Face it, your pet Nazis are not in that high regard as you hope. The monument does not honour "Nazi collaborators". It honours the Estonian soldiers previously not honoured because they fought on the "wrong side" -- through no wrongdoing of their own. Digwuren 16:41, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
- I see that there are small but vocal minority of Estonian contributors who keep themselves busy denying collaboration between Estonians and Nazi during WWII or (as in Monument of Lihula case) when link is impossible to deny, trying to minimize it. Good thing is, you guys do understand that Nazi collaboration is bad thing. Another good thing is, you do not understand that all your efforts are futile. Your only increase ppl's interest to the topic with your busy denialism. Keep up the good work :) RJ CG 17:12, 18 June 2007 (UTC)