Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 22:12, 31 July 2007

Hectorian is busy in real life and may not respond swiftly to queries.

/Archive 1: Ferbuary - April 2006
/Archive 2: April - September 2006
/Archive 3: September - December 2006

Hey

Welcome back my friend. :-) Khoikhoi 00:25, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW, what do you think of this edit? Was I right in reverting? Khoikhoi 23:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi, what's up.. Happy new year to you too! I am sorry for the edit summary. I was just coming out of another stressful debate somewhere else... In any case, it doesn't matter either way for me for the Turkish diaspora thing. As for Hagia Sophia and Sinan, I see what you mean. I only thought that it would unbalance the article. Anyways, talk to you soon! Baristarim 00:44, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Done, although he's still prowling around... ;-) Khoikhoi 00:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Turkish diaspora

Thanks! I also tried hard to find a reference for the Turkish population in Brazil, but it was hard to proceed with the little Portuguese I can understand, on the governmental statistics site (the English version of which currently doesn't work, unfortunately). I noticed the good work on Greek diaspora, and I think it also owes much to the Υπουργείο Εξωτερικών doing its job very well. I have a slight problem with your last edit though: I do not agree that the distinction between Turkish and Turkic is obvious at all to an average person, and as we are trying make an encyclopedia article I believe we should aspire to explain things in detail instead of removing information. When I received your message, I was just working on rephrasing that, with which I hope you won't have problem. Regards, Atilim Gunes Baydin 00:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, I'm also trying to make sense of Portuguese with my knowledge of Latin :) You are right to say that "Turkish diaspora" is not that much ambiguous, but I'm focusing more on the "Turks living outside of Turkey" part. As we are trying to make a definition in an encyclopedic sense, I believe that information should be included. I really hope that you won't have a problem with the current version. Baristarim was apologizing for missing and overwriting my edit in a hurry. Regards again, Atilim Gunes Baydin 01:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I was also hoping that you could perhaps help with finding the correct number of Greek citizens of Turkish ethnicity. Atilim Gunes Baydin 01:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I will try to continue my search tomorrow. I checked the external links of Muslim minority of Greece, honestly I was not aware that there was a political problem surrounding the correct number of Turks in Greece. The only official source given is in Greek (I regret I can't understand much), and the Human Rights Watch links are dead. After checking the rest, I think the number you mentioned on my talk page sounds quite about right. I don't know on which time zone you are now but I'm going to sleep. Thanks for the help :) Atilim Gunes Baydin 02:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

So how was your holidays finally? I am sorry for the haphazard reply of yesterday, I have been running from place to place and I am also doing other things on my computer! Baristarim 23:28, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I don't know about that story, but looks like some crackpot thing. In any case, the problem is much bigger. I don't know if you have been following, but there have been some problems in other articles as well. Listen, can you take a look here (see its history and the intro, and the blind reverts). I spent an hour on that page this weekend finding academic sources and writing the intro to reflect precisely the timeline. I just keep on getting reverted blindly. And I have to keep track of edits like this (see my edit after). I didn't even know that article existed before, so I don't want to pretend that I am very knowledgable about it. Pff.. You know, Turks are not out to get anyone but I just don't understand why there has to be this constant push to minimalization. That's all. Anyways, pls take a look at the first one I mentioned, it is really demoralizing after all that effort I spent on the intro. Baristarim 17:40, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Cyprus-stub

To template για το cyprus-stub προτείνεται απο τουσ τουρκους να αλλάξει. "This Cyprus-related article is a stub. You can help Misplaced Pages by expanding it." Ηδη προτείνεται να αλλάξει το link για την Κύπρο στο να ειναι link gia το αρθρο για τη γεωγραφία της Κυπρου, και επίσης κερδίζει ηδη έδαφος στο να φύγει η σημαια μας και να αντικατασταθει με τον χαρτη της Κυπρου. mπορεις να με βοηθησεις να μην περασει αυτο που θελουν οι Τουρκοι? Ηδη προσπαθω εγώ μόνος μου αλλα και εγω ειμαι σε εξεταστικη περιοδο και δεν μπορω να πολυασχοληθω με τιν βικιπέδια αν μπορουσες να βοηθησεις... User:KRBN 02:12, 10 January 2007(UTC)

User:Hectorian/Timeline of modern Greek history

I've made some few edits. It needs references, but otherwise it looks fine. :-) Khoikhoi 05:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW, please archive your talk page. Khoikhoi 05:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

a quesiton

Hi Hectorian. Why did you put compliments about your nation, on your personel web-site? Why do you need such an action? Do you feel depressed or is your mind still under "barbarian(!)" invasion? Is this an complex???

What r u trying to prove?

And a lesson for you: Sultan Mehmed never said a word like that. Controversial he and his successors made Istanbul an emperial city. A city which is still target of some stupid greek fascists.

He order the foundation of patriach in Istanbul. Learn that.

Slandering is easy but truth is worth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mmorgil (talk • contribs) 14:31, 12 January 2007.

(I've moved this from your userpage) Khoikhoi 15:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Mmorgil, i have seen your weird (that's the word i prefer to use in order to remain civil) sense of history in many cases... See the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople for details about when, how, where and by whom was it founded. I do not have a "persona(e)l website... lol If u are referring to my user page, it is perfectly in accordance to wiki rules, and thus i have no need to explain anything. btw, every quote there has been truly said (i do not like trash in my userbage, and, so, next time try to comment on my talkpage), even what Mehmed, u know, Huma Hatun's son, said: , , , . btw, it is not that difficult to sign your comments, or is it? Hectorian 15:49, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

No problem. :-) I'll archive too. Khoikhoi 05:13, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I had only removed that comment because it had nothing to do with that article, similar to removals that has happened in the past in Talk:Persian Gulf and Talk:Armenian Genocide among others.. If you had read the whole discussion, you will see that there were many posts bordering on racism and extreme denigration of an entire ethnicity, with mocking statements about the intellectual capability of people because of their race "I have never understood the stubborn obsession of Turkey-Turks with simple historical facts ... somehow, they are totally unable to accept facts". That does not contribute to the creation of a healthy working environnement, nor is it relevant to the improvements that can be made to that Misplaced Pages article. In other posts there were at least mentions of the article and sources etc. The last one, there was practically none, and it was nothing but disruption with mocking and denigrating statements. Don't you think so? It would be a different matter if he were a new user, but that isn't the case. That's all... Baristarim 14:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to contact me though.. I am jurt trying to make sure that the talk page actually serves something :) Baristarim 14:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Sources

Hey man. As much as we would like to think, Misplaced Pages itself cannot be considered a reliable source. That's why it's important to give some sources for some (not all) of the things on the timeline. Perhaps the controversial things. I think it's fine if you make the article now, just move it to Timeline of modern Greek history. I'm not sure if it's a good idea to remove the {{unreferenced}} tag though, because the article is unreferenced. You can do what you want however.

As for the The Dead Brother's Song, it looks like a great article; I'll read it completely sometime, but could you please send the song to me? I'd love to hear it. Kherete, Khoikhoi 08:42, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Hectorian, got a source corroborating it's as old as you say? I always thought only the "Akritika" were thought to be that old. The language in the version you linked to is definitely much younger ("θα" futures and all the rest, if I remember correctly that's believed to have been grammaticalised only in modern times.) Also, have you got anything about the melodies (age, transmission, etc.)? Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:31, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for the detailed response. I plundered my wife's bookshelf and actually found the Politis book to check. So, yes, he's indeed dating it as early as the Akritika. Interesting. We should perhaps still point out that this probably applies to the outline of the story, not necessarily to the exact shape of the text. I still think I was right about the "tha", for instance (it's only 16th century or thereabouts, according to Horrocks), and the whole "feel" of the text you quoted is much more modern than, for instance, the Akritika in the written sources.

About the melody, what I meant was we only have information about the text so far, but you were talking about it as if it was a musical work too. Is there a traditional melody associated with the poem, and do we have any information about whether it is equally old?

By the way, we ought to write an article on Decapentasyllabic verse / Politic verse some day, don't you think? There's an interesting chapter on various hypotheses about its origin in the Horrocks book. (I finally got the Greek translated edition when I was in Athens the other day; the English one has been out of print.)

Sorry for replying late, but I was busy watching this for a certain signal I was waiting for... :-) Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and by the way, the parallel with the Lenore ballad had struck me too. We did that back in Lykeio. "Und hurre hurre hopp hopp hopp / ging's fort in sausendem Galopp / dass Ross und Reiter schnoben / und Kies und Funken stoben ..." Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

What I know about the Lenore story is the 18th century German ballad by Gottfried August Bürger. Don't know if he based it on some preexisting legend. You can easily find the text on the web, but only in German apparently (google for "Lenore fuhr ums Morgenrot empor aus schweren Träumen"). It's quite long too. The story is about a soldier missing in action and his girlfriend who mourns so much for him she forswears her faith in God. So one night his ghost comes riding to her home and takes her away, to their wedding. Of course the "wedding" is in the grave (and presumably she goes to hell for questioning Divine Wisdom). What's similar is the scene of the ghost riding through the night with the girl, dramaticed in a very similar way. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Hah! Hah! I actually found one! With images. And in real English verses too! Enjoy! This Bürger guy is incredible... Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I have decided to move your subpage instead, in order to preserve the edit history (so as to not violate the GDFL copyright terms). Ciao, Khoikhoi 23:16, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

the circus

yeah, I suppose you are right. It just seems that nothing seems to be happening in that talk page except sniping, and (well-aimed) provocations. I will leave another note about the dispute that led to the article's protection. I generally try to take down such comments sometimes, but I am still hesitant to do it for the reasons that you mentioned, and also because I am afraid that people will blame me for holding "sides" and etc :( That article is like the snake's pit... Unfortunately as a lone editor what one person can do is limited. I honestly would like that page and relevant pages to be informative other than the battlegrounds they are now. Oh well.. Cheers! Baristarim 16:16, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Dear Neighbour

Dear Hector, we just talked with Asellius about this, let the translation be in the first paragraph and let;s just deal like normal people, if it is not this will continue for ever! Please be rasonable, there r translations in all the languages whoes teritorries was under Alexander but not translated in Macedonian (Or FYROM how u want to say it no prob) but please let it the translation! So we can stop further vandalism and discussions about it! If not it will continue to the closure of the article!

So please, Regards! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Noname real (talk • contribs) 20:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

Des se parakalw ti egrapsa sti selida tou Nikosilver, prokeitai gia ena zitima pou xreiazetai tin prosoxi mas. Miskin 13:00, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Basika h apantish pou molis mou afhse ta leei ola. Loipon to proteinoume gia diagrafh? Miskin 13:05, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

OK eisai gnwrimos me tin diadikasia? Miskin 13:14, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Mhn asxoleisai me to arhro tou, autos thelei apla na yparxei gia to pasarei ws mesaionikh ellhnikh istoria enanti ths Byzantinhs autokratorias. Prepei apla na frontisoume na diagrafei. Miskin 13:19, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Po po, oute egw exw to xrono na asxolithw sobara me auto to thema - kai authn thn stigmh kanw egklima pou spatalaw ton xrono mou mazi tou. Autos to pige hdh gia RFC, pou nomizw oti einai akyrh kinish gia ena toso fanero POV-fork. Ti tha kanoume omws twra? Kapoios prepei na to analabei. Miskin 13:35, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Pithanotato ews kai sigouro. Fenetai oti gnwrizei poly kala tis diadikasies ths WP gia enan neo xrhsth. Miskin 13:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Eutyxws o FPS epebale thn taksh. Prepei omws na parakolouthoume tis energies tou sthn Byzantinh autokratoria opou epimenei na ferei elthei sta metra tou xwris na parathesei oute mia phgh. Amfisbithei px oti o Oikoumenikos patriarxhs sxetizetai me to arthro epeidh pleon apokaleitai 'Ellhnas Patriarxhs'. Miskin 14:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Hrant Dink

No worries.. I have been trying to haphazardly arrange and improve the article as the news rolls in as much as everyone else - it is not easy. Particularly since the article wasn't long before the assassination unfortunately. I have been trying to expand the early life section since he actually did have an interesting youth: he knew Yilmaz Guney, and his official name, Firat, was taken from a character from one of his movies. There are many interesting points like that :) But the sources are in Turkish and they have to be translated and the article is constantly getting updated so I am kind of getting lost :) It would be really nice if we could take it to GA soon... Baristarim 14:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Ivan Alexander of Bulgaria FAC

Hi! Today I've nominated the article Ivan Alexander of Bulgaria for a featured article, believing it meets all criteria.

This is the article's third nomination (see the previous ones), and because the previous ones received relatively little attention, I'd like to invite you to voice your opinion about it, be it as a vote or a comment, on the article's nomination page.

Thanks! :) Todor→Bozhinov 16:44, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Turkish saints

Yeah, I saw it but I'm not sure what we should do. I think the best solution would be to rename it to "Saints from Anatolia" or better yet "Saints from Asia Minor" as that's where most of the saints in this category came from. The name "Turkish saints" sounds as if the saints in the category were ethnic Turks, which indeed they were not. Most were around before the Turks even arrived in Anatolia. In any case, I'll talk to User:Khoikhoi about this. -- Aivazovsky 18:57, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Done. Category:Saints from Anatolia. -- Aivazovsky 23:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

eirhnh merkourh

Geia, tha ithela na rwthsw giati evgales thn Eirhnh Merkourh apo thn kathgoria Roma people Pictureuploader 15:15, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Ehw dei thleoptikes ekpompes kai afierwmata. Katarxas afto ehei anaferthei ws 'apokalypsh' meshmerianhs ekpomphs otan den htan gnwsto, argotera omws eida kai tsigganous syggeneis ths na miloun giafthn kai gia th zwh ths prin ginei gnwsth. Sto internet dystyxws denmporeis na vreis leptomereies gia ellhnes diashmous Pictureuploader 15:35, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Efxaristw gia thn katanohsh. Dystyxws gia thn Misplaced Pages, h ellhnikh enhmerwsh vasizetai kyriws sthn TV kai ta periodika, kai oxi sto Internet opou tha mporousame na valoume phges :) Pictureuploader 15:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Kurdistan

Hi,my name is Diyako and I read on of the talk pages that you would be interested in a Kurdish WikiProject. I have just begun working on the project and working tirelessly to put and expand the project as much as I can. You would be more than welcomed to join the WikiProject Kurdistan. Hope to see you there!!! --D.Kurdistani 01:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your support

As you set out for Ithaka, hope the voyage is long Knowledge is your destiny, but don't ever hurry the journey May there be many summer mornings when With what pleasure and joy, you come into harbors seen for the first time Don't expect Ithaka to make you rich. Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey And, if I, one of your fellow-travellers, can offer something To make this journey of yours even more fascinating and enjoyable This is my assistance with anything I can help.

Bozcaada

What is has to do with, is the extreme POV that is occurring. Tell me why this isn't occurring with Istanbul? Because that name does not exist in the Greek language... they still call it "Constantinople". But the Istanbul page is still the proper page for that article, while Constantinople is a historic page... as Tenedos should be. THAT is the problem ... and many many other translations show the proper translation - English also translates to Bozcaada, NOT Tenedos. Rarelibra 18:10, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Both of those maps are extremely poor from a cartographic point of view. The field of the map is incredibly large, and the focal point (being the island(s) in article) is very small, thereby taking very much away from the location of the map. Two new maps will be created to rectify this. Rarelibra 18:58, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Who, exactly, are you referring to when you say "you can't use sockpuppets or IPs"? I hope it isn't ME you are referring to, because if so - know this, I will have any and all admins check my records, my IPs, and my activities to prove to you that 1) it isn't me and, 2) that such accusations would be totally and completely offensive and unnecessary. So I hope you aren't accusing me, ARE YOU? Rarelibra 19:40, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, NO, I do not know who it is. But are you not aware that an IP address will let you know specific information about a user, and ANYONE can look up an IP address online and trace it's whereabouts? Now I am not going to caution you, I am WARNING you - if you attempt to accuse me of this, you better think twice. Because I WILL NOT stand for being accused of such actions that I am not guilty of, nor would participate in. If you do so, I guarantee there will be consequences that you don't like. Rarelibra 20:20, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll delete any and all edits you make to my talk page... seeing how you've chosen to offend me, you now mean nothing. I am calling you out - you can think what you want, but even a caveman can do an IP check and see... and my IP doesn't come close (nor my one at work) - in fact, I'm willing to bet you'll see the IP comes from ANOTHER COUNTRY. Wow. Amazing. Rarelibra 04:09, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Child of Izmir, resident of Istanbul

Thanks. I grew up in Izmir, but now reside in Istanbul. One doesn't become Istanbulite by simply living here, so I remain Izmirli :). --Free smyrnan 23:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Greece Newsletter - Issue V (I) - January 2007

The January 2007 issue of the WikiProject Greece newsletter (the first issue after the merger of the History of Greece Wikiproject with the Wikiproject Greece) has been published.

You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link.

Thank you.--Yannismarou 20:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Names

Well, I am sorry but there is no reason those names should be up there in the lead, in the same way that the Turkish name was removed from the lead of Thessaloniki - by the same token (as FP had pointed out in his statement in his summary), I will move the Greek name further down in Istanbul article. I am sorry Hectorian, but not every single place name in Western Turkey will have a Greek name - that is not going to happen because it doesn't make sense. Feel free to create an etymology section to talk about them - that is perfectly legitimate. In fact, the solution found at Thessaloniki is very logical. If you fell that the names for those islands are unjustified, feel free to remove them. I will try to contact FPAS as well, in the mean time - I will modify the articles per Thessaloniki. Baristarim 10:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, the "nation that founded" the city doesn't make sense - it was not the modern Greek nation that founded them, but Ancient Greeks - and that can still be a stretch for some. In any case, include the Ancient Greek name of the city, not the modern one - if there is no actual Greek population, then it doesn't make sense to have the modern Greek, does it? :) Baristarim 10:46, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, at first I had a very inclusionist point of view, but lately I am finding that so many alternate names in the lead are a bit confusing. It would be a much better idea if they were inserted correctly into the main, either under etymology or history sections. So I shouldn't have removed the names in the first place I suppose, that was not correct - there is no reason why they should be deleted. As for the islands, personally I don't think that the Turkish names should be up there if there is no longer a Turkish presence. It could be inserted in the history section "it was called X by the Turks". I suppose at some point the Ottoman translation could also be added, but I don't know Ottoman so there is not much I can do about that :)

I tried to correct the names for two of the islands, however I wasn't sure about Thasos simply because it seemed very close to Western Thrace, and I thought maybe there were many Turks living there or something, but again maybe not. Are there? If not, I will remove that from the lead as well and add somewhere in the history section. As for the other articles... They are already very short, so I am sure that they will make more sense when those articles will be expanded one day. Those etymology sections look a bit awkward for the moment, but maybe it will push some editors into expanding them? :) I would find them interesting actually. Cheers! Baristarim 11:22, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

You are right, I should have definitely been more careful with explaining myself and all considering the background of this issue :)

As for Istanbul, I suppose the issue is a bit too complicated to be resolved in a day, so I won't be reverting you. Baristarim 11:46, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Request

I had a bad day today, and I don't want to get into another edit war over Greco-Turkish placenames. Therefore, I would like it if we could hold-off from reverting just for now, until we can come to some sort of solution. I don't really see the Θεσσαλονίκη page as a solution, because most articles don't have it that way. The famous Gdańsk solution was to have the names at the top for example. Khoikhoi 01:04, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for understanding. :-) I see what you mean about Ottoman Turkish. The problem is, hardly anyone knows the correct spelling of these places in Ottoman Turkish. I know that Saposcat might be able to help; Xemxi is also experienced in this area. If both of them can't help, try asking Piri Reis, or take a look at the Ottoman Turkish Misplaced Pages! :-) Cheers, Khoikhoi 02:10, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

But most Turks today cannot read or write Ottoman Turkish. Did Greece ever have reforms which caused most Greeks to only understand modern Greek? It's not really possible, considering the fact that they're both written in the same script. However, modern Turkish and Ottoman Turkish are written in completely different alphabets, and people growing up in Turkey obviously don't learn the latter in school, so they do not know it. It's not their fault that they don't, that's just the way things are. Khoikhoi 02:30, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Saposcat and Xemxi have both responded to my request, check it out: Khoikhoi 04:45, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW, we don't need to add the name in Ottoman Turkish to articles like Xanthi because of the Turks of Western Thrace. Same with Rhodes and Kos (see Turks of the Dodecanese). Khoikhoi 05:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Your own transliteration method contradicts what is outlined at Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style (Arabic)#Ottoman Turkish). The most common way to transliterate Ottoman Turkish is with the diacritics, not without them. You're welcome to add the most common transliteration of "Αδριανούπολη" if you want. Also, "English" does not exclude the use of accent marks. You will notice this in words like café... Khoikhoi 03:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW, you just reminded me from something I read in a Hemingway short story:

Minarets stuck up in the rain out of Adrianople across the mud flats. The carts were jammed for thirty miles along the Karagatch road. Water buffalo and cattle were hauling carts through the mud. There was no end and no beginning. Just carts loaded with everything they owned. The old men and women, soaked through, walked along keeping the cattle mov­ing. The Maritza was running yellow almost up to the bridge. Carts were jammed solid on the bridge with camels bobbing along through them. Greek cavalry herded along the procession. The women and children were in the carts, crouched with mattresses, mirrors, sewing machines, bun­dles. There was a woman having a baby with a young girl holding a blanket over her and cry­ing. Scared sick looking at it. It rained all through the evacuation.

Khoikhoi 04:08, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of which, I added el:Μικρασιατική καταστροφή as an interwiki to the article, but I wanted to ask you, does the term "Asia Minor Catastrophe" also refer to the Greco-Turkish War of 1919-22? Maybe the interwiki should be moved then. Khoikhoi 04:27, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Bozcaada

Khoikhoi introduced those two maps, and Pmanderson reverted - violating the 3RR rule, I might add. What exactly is your problem, Hectorian? You seem to be acting within POV bias in this article. Or will it be enough when I create new maps for the two locations? Rarelibra 04:24, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

You seem to be acting within POV bias in this article. The purpose is to show the location of the island in its geographic area, not its location within the Canacalle province... Even if u create new maps for these two locations, this will not make your maps irreplaceable... Instead of sticking to your POV, you should better wonder if u are wrong in this case. Also, do not threaten other users for the 3RR, cause u may also violate it. PS: I would had replied in your talkpage (since this is how I always reply when people leave comments here), but as u said and did (by making personal attacks-think of that wikirule as well), it would be in vain... Hectorian 04:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

You may continue your POV approach, just know it is biased. Rarelibra 23:41, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Huh? I like FPS's map; It shows the island in its geographic area. I have no reason to push POV. Today I saw another user who is solely involved in a biased approach ; I will have to see how far he/she will push it... Hectorian 01:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Enjoy. Rarelibra 01:10, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Patriarchate copyrights

You asserted on this Image:PopeEcumenicalPatriarch.jpg description that the Patriarchate is granting free use of its images with attribution. Can you please point me to your source of this information on their policy? Thanks.--Pharos 21:52, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

That's a standard Misplaced Pages license tag, often misused. What we need to know is if the Patriarchate themselves have said this, perhaps on their website. I think I'll pass this question on to User:Kostisl, who posted that image.--Pharos 22:54, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Pope Benedict XVI revert

Hi, Hectorian. I wanted to ask you to check out the discussion page for Pope Benedict XVI so you can provide input on the recent revert you did. I have found many of your edits to the Pope Benedict XVI article to be appropriate and have agreed with you in a recent discussion issue. However, I thought the edit by 88.107.146.244 was also appropriate, and noticed you disagreed and reverted. I didn't want to just revert your revert, so I was hoping to get a discussion on the matter started. I look forward to hearing from you! Regards, --Anietor 04:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Asia Minor Catastrophe

Thanks a lot for the info. Perhaps you should correct my mistake at the Greek Misplaced Pages, as well as mine here. BTW, is there a name in Greek for the "population exchange between Greece and Turkey"? Since "Asia Minor Catastrophe" does not only refer to the population exchange, perhaps the article should be changed. As of now, it says:

In Greece this was called the Asia Minor Catastrophe (Greek: Template:Polytonic) as it involved the expulsion of about one third of the Greek population from millennia old homelands, practically ending some 2,500 years old presence of ethnic Greek people in Asia Minor, from Smyrna (İzmir) in the Ionian shores to Samsun and Trebizond in Pontus.

...but I suppose this is incorrect, right? Khoikhoi 05:25, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, ok. I get it now. :-) Thanks, Khoikhoi 05:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again! Khoikhoi 05:09, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Turkish coffee

I think you and Khoikhoi are blowing up the lie of coffee houses in Istanbul in 1475. Show me a reference other than your commercial websites I will stop deleting it. It's a shame that you're using Misplaced Pages to manufacture and propogate lies. You should be more academically inclined. Contact me at csunsay@yahoo.com to convince me about your historical references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Csunsay (talk • contribs)

It is a well known fact that the existence of coffee houses in Istanbul was true. Coffee itself has its origins in Africa, of all places. How hard is it to imagine that a culture spread coffee and its popularity around through trade routes and interactions? Csunsay - I will definitely contact you and assist you in your learning. In the meantime, please refrain from accusing both Hectorian and Khoikhoi before you have any counterproof for such accusations. Rarelibra 01:14, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

You didn't contact me Rarelibra. I look forward to the documents showing that Byzantine Empire knew coffee and there were coffee houses in stanbul or Constantinople. I'm not challenging you. This is a hitorical possibility. But I don't know any record of it. I never came across this. I blame Khoikhoi and Hectorian because they keep bringing up without evidence supporting that. Yet, they give commercial websites as reference. This should be a violation. If you think there were coffee houses in Istanbul in 1475, edit the page and put the reference. Otherwise this is a lie, nationalistic propaganda.

Where u in Constantinople in 1475, that's why u are sure it's a lie? I have no need to convince anyone... It is a legend, but still it is sourced. Hectorian 22:32, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

What do you think about this? Maybe we can keep the fact that he is recognized only as the Patriarch of Fener by the TR government in addition to its original state. However the latest edit got me curious. Is he the spiritual leader of all Orthodox churches in the world, or some, or are there exceptions etc. The latest edit looks horrible but I am holding out on a full revert for the moment - just wanted to get your opinion. Baristarim 22:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

The other side of the 1996 Buffer Zone killings

Michael Stevens' paper "The Cyprus Problem" is a souce, and the items I added to the pages regarding the two 'martyrs' were direct quotes. Just because you don't like what others may say about it doesn't mean that you have a mandate to remove it. That's called revisionism. I tried to show balance. A big difference, though I wonder if that point is made in Greek dictionaries... Expatkiwi

You're missing the point. You think any sane person would want to encroach into a zone where the possibility of conflict/injury/death is high? That they were killed is regrettable, but don't forget that those two made a conscious choice to challenge the buffer zone. Heroism is not a word I would use in this circumstance. The most charitable term I'd use is 'risky'. Expatkiwi

PGG article

Hi, can you sign yay or nay here please. Thanks, --A.Garnet 17:37, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Hektoriane koita to e-mail sou? Anoixe tetoio logariasmo e-mail, pistepse me, tha su aresi. Ehei kai ensomatomeno "chat" ya na borume na sizitame efkola. Me ton Nikola sizitame sihna etsi tora. Thulium 18:58, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

New article

Check it out: Armenians in Greece. Khoikhoi 21:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Efxaristume para poly o kirios :) Chaldean 05:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

edit: for joining the project that is :D Chaldean 05:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Orea, then enie? :) Chaldean

Ohhh your missing out on alot. Many Greeks tell me its Kriti where it at (when it comes to the islands), but I disagree. :) You can really spend a whole month in Santorini (which is what I did two years ago!) I have many more nice pics, but dont want to bombard the Santorini article with pictures :D Chaldean 05:47, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

thanks

Thanks for editing my Typos. Odst 23:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Oecumenical?

XAIPE!

Hi Hectorian, might I ask why you've moved most of articles on 'Patriarch X of Constantinople' to 'Ecumenical Patriarch X of Constantinople'? Their usual title in English-language Byzantine scholarship is simply 'Patriarch X of Constantinople'. Just curious. InfernoXV 03:40, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey there, here to ask the same question. It seems jarring, and I was wondering why the change. Thanks. Pastordavid 01:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Aegean dispute

Hi, sorry I wasn't quite happy with some of the additions you made to Aegean dispute and Convention between Italy and Turkey, 1932. I've reverted a few of the changes but have tried to keep and integrate as much of it as I could. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:12, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I've answered on my own page, if you don't mind. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:45, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Interesting article

Slow Demise of Karabakh Greeks... Khoikhoi 06:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Welcome back! Khoikhoi 06:41, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:PopeEcumenicalPatriarch.jpg

WikiProject Greece Newsletter - Issue VI (II) - February 2007

The February 2007 issue of the WikiProject Greece newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link.

Thank you.--Yannismarou 18:35, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Greece Newsletter - Issue VII (III) - March 2007

The March 2007 issue of the WikiProject Greece newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link.

Thank you.--Yannismarou 15:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Problem in Turkish Diaspora article

Hi, in Turkish Diaspora article, you should change the table back to it's original state and it should include Turkey too. Please check the other references, when you says diaspora, you should also mention the mainland of that nation (i.e. Greek Diaspora) Miller 88.106.8.214 08:36, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

The table on Greek Diaspora is about the Greek people, not just diaspora, but including countries with about 10-20 Greek people, is kinda weird I'd say (the threshold should be like thousand). It is even weirder to include countries with 'unknown' number of Greeks. deniz_C 00:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

As stated on the top of the article, it is about Greeks in all countries. The Greek authorities have made a good job in providing numbers of even just 10-20 Greeks in some states, but note that the official figures are not always the only acceptable or real ones (usually, they count only citizenship). That's why the Greek diaspora article usually provides two figures, lowest and highest estimates. This is something that, personally, i would like to see in all respective articles, so that the users will make up their minds on their own about what is true or false. As for the Turkish diaspora, there is a lot of work to be done... not only concerning the double figures, but also concerning the reliability and the accessibility of the these figures: e.g. the figure for Brazil in the past, for Syria and Iraq in the current revision, seem rather suspicious to me... Lastly, there should be sources provided for every number (which is not, so far). The two states Serbia and Belarus that in the Greek diaspora are listed as "unknown" are special cases; wars and regimes are the answers to that. However, i am in the position to provide some figures for them as well. Afterall, there are in both of them links for further information... Readers can find their way. Hectorian 01:05, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I think that only 'significant' ones should be mentioned. 10 people is too few, and it seems to be an estimation (than it jumps to 20 people), and if a Greek becomes a citizen today, it will increase by 10%?? Also, the article is about Greek diaspora, so it might be better not to include Greece (and maybe Cyprus), and rename table. Also, are you sure there were only 219280 'non-Greeks' in Greece in 2001? deniz_C 01:15, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Since there are estimations, i see no reason not to include even the lowest numbers (the figures are provided in a way that higher numbers come first). I would not have any problem to talk about excluding Greece and Cyprus from the table, but we should also exclude Albania, FYROM, Bulgaria, Turkey, Egypt and Italy, since the Greek communities there are not diasporic populations, but natives, aboriginals. As for the only 219280 non-Greeks, no, i am not sure, but this is the figure provided. If my personal opinion, as a Greek living in Greece, counts, Greece's population is over 13 million, with more than 1.5 million non-Greeks (and more coming every day, especially after Bulgaria and Romania entered the EU), but i cannot base it on sources, and thus i cannot change the figures neither in Greek diaspora nor in Greece. Hectorian 01:28, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Hagia Sophia

Are you talking about another article? You haven't undone my edit, which was a revert. Apparently some people want to see inline citations so lets have them. deniz_C 00:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, not quite - even I was confused when I saw the article. The term easily means refugees from the Greek Civil War . Anyways, also see my edit summary.. Baristarim 01:03, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

"It gets tiring" for what reason? After edits like this, I am sorry but I am very cool at comments coming from you - you really should check WP:AGF.. I am doing my best to objectively improve articles, and you might want to at least try to treat the subjects more seriously and objectively. Baristarim 02:03, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Why did you actually revert anon at the Hellenic Army by the way? Baristarim 02:05, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

(For the above, replied in the article's talk). as for the comment i had made and u mentioned, i did not say anything false. i may had been exaggerated, but i was certainly not wrong, not even for once. Besides, it was in the talk page, not in the article itself. it is obvious that my ideas differ from yours, but WP:AGF applies to all, and i do not think this depends on previous comments and edits. Hectorian 02:34, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I now saw that edit. I think it is racism. In addition to add that, you are still behind all of those words, so they are not just some outbursts. "Let the users draw their own conclusions, instead of presenting them panturkist and kemalist ideas... The fire was set up by kemalists! it is so tiring to present facts" lol. "' (read the Bible for the translation... what? it's original script is in Greek? LOL" double lol. "John Balfour, 3rd Baron Kinross|Ataturk's lover's" discrediting people, good, with the usual homosexual thing, or son of a bitch thing (Kinross might have been gay, don't care about that, neither do I care so much about Ataturk being homosexual, though I have doubts about that). "know that the tuskish users have been fulled by kemalist-panturkist ideas, but these ideas are not gonna prevail in wikipedia" replace tuskish by some Greek, kemalist-panturkist Mustafa Kemal-hatist, panhellenist. "hey may believe that Prophet Mohamand was turkish (kara-LOL... they will get the meaning of this (kara) one... since, even the turkish minister of culture said that" need to see a ref, it might have happened (though small chance), but I don't want hri or something like that. Also, I don't understand what you mean there. Kara means black "Haha! are the Turks wonder why the Arabs still don't like them?" Turks, if you want to generalize so much, do not care whether Arabs like them or not, see World War I. They have already too much thing to think about in their daily lives, they do care about Palestinians though because they are represented as the oppressed ones in the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Also, back to Smyrna, the city of Amazoness queen, why burn the city you captured two days ago? Does not make much sense. It might be a revenge of burned cities by retreating Greek army though, still it does not make much sense deniz_C 16:41, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Not racism. Not liking a state or a political leader does not make someone a racist. not liking a population group does. I did not get the "double lol" u said; it is not a secret that the New Testament was written in Greek and that the Old was translated and became known in that language as well, but in any case this goes for the quote i placed there. I do not care if Kinross and Ataturk were homosexuals, but if they were lovers, Kinross's ideas about him cannot be taken seriously. Apropos, many persons in ancient Greek history were, and i have no prob with them. what makes me wonder is why some Turks see that as insulting... were they on Ataturk's bed to know? the Turkish state banned YouTube for that reason, for crying out loud!!! not to mention the charges against Elif Şafak. There is no such thing as "Panhellenism" in the sense of "Panturkism". "Panhellenic" simply means "all of Greece". I have seen what the (maybe now ex) turkish minister of culture had said about Mohamand. His exact words were that the origins of Mohamand go back to the sumerians, thus he was certainly a Turk (ha?). "Kara" in turkish means "black". In greek has come to mean "much". Yes, i know that most Turks care a lot about the Palestinians (this is something in common that we have), but those who govern them do not have the same opinion. as for Smyrna, the Greek army had already left when the fire broke out; how can they be blamed, since they were not even there? why burn the city you captured two days ago?... hmmm, why demolish the city someone captured?

Trust me, i know that the Turks have many things to care about in their daily lives and in their state. But i guess they do not have many options now: from a warlike general who advocates invasion on another state (Iraq) to an islamist who wants to become president... But these are problems the Turks themselves shall solve, without harming any of their neighbors. Hectorian 22:38, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Mpa?

Anasth8hkes ki esy? :-) NikoSilver 11:55, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Kalws ton pisw!--Yannismarou 15:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Welcome back Hector. Thelis na anixis to ilektroniko tahidromio su na sizitisume? Ke ego ke o Nikos imaste sindemeni.--Domitius 22:51, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Tripolis Massacre

Hecrtoian. Your sick fanatic mind should be deleted from wikipedia. Tripolis massacre is a fact. Soon I'll put in here with GREEK footnotes. Thus, you'll accept it. Are you ashamed of it, or are you just a standart nationalist which, by nature, must oversee some facts. Here in Istanbul there monuments which remind the September 6-7 pogrom. Are there any plates/monuments which remind the turkish population????

Few days ago greek historian Prof. Veremis also accepted the Tripolis masscre. Dirty fashist. You can tespace from truth.

Anon, firstly: new comments always go at the bottom of the page. Secondly: see WP:NPA. Thirdly: killing the Ottoman garison and officials does not constitute a massacre (i guess, for your mind, the Dervenakia was also a "massacre"...). Fourthly: don't get me started about the massacres of Greek populations by the Turks in 1821, in Constantinople, Cyprus, Smyrni , , , , and the Christians of Bucharest , and many other places. Fifthly: don't get me started about the Istanbul Pogrom... monuments mean nothing from the very moment that Turkey violated the Treaty of Lausanne... Hectorian 23:41, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Baree luys

Welcome back Hec, where've you been all this time =)--MarshallBagramyan 23:59, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

arm genocide

I did not remove, omit anything, please revert deniz_C 02:11, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Greek refugees

Thank you. Take a look, when you get a chance, at my questions on the talk page. These are real people, with real collective histories (not one story, but many). At least in the main part, these stories deserve to be told.

I've just finished reading Bruce Clark's "Twice a Stranger" and am about to embark on Rene Hirschon's "Crossing the Aegean." (the latter is a collection of essays - by Greeks critical of the Greek government and society, and by Turks critical of Turkish government and society).

Once the organization of this article is settled, I would be happy to dip through these two for references. Jd2718 16:52, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I am looking at your further expansion of the article, and have lots more questions. Please keep writing. There may be many POV or organization or weight things to be worked out, but the content you are providing is very important. Thank you. Jd2718 16:56, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

A Shameful Act

Hey Hec, have you heard of this book just recently published in English by Taner Akcam? I just bought it the other day and while it mostly concentrates on the Armenians there is a considerably large section devoted to the Greeks and other Christian minorities (most probably the Smyrna Greeks but perhaps also the Pontic Greeks too). Check it out on Amazon:. Cheers, --MarshallBagramyan 04:38, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Markos Vafiades

His birthplace is given as Theodosiopolis, Asia Minor, but when Theodosiopolis was linked, it redirected to an ancient city. Do you know where this is, or what its Turkish name is? I have googled up and down, but no luck. Jd2718 04:06, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

According to el:Μάρκος Βαφειάδης, it is Erzurum (), but I wasn't aware that the city used to have a large Greek population... Khoikhoi 04:23, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Bruce Clark just gives "of refugee stock" but reports that in his memoirs 'General Markos' gives a vivid account of his early life in Anatolia and discloses that at the time of Lausanne he considered staying on in Turkey by dint of marrying a Turkish neighbor's daughter. Not encyclopedia-worthy, and doesn't tell us that Erzurum is right, but fascinating nonetheless. Jd2718 05:40, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Must be Erzurum; can't be Apros! Fixed at Theodosiopolis (redirect), Arpos (moved to correct spelling Apros), Erzurum (redir/dab note), and Markos Vafiadis. --Macrakis 06:37, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Quotes about the Greeks

HECTORIAN!! Yassou re!! These quotes you have are great!!

Can we put them (or some) our my user page?

Regards,

Φilhellenism 06:00, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Greece Newsletter - Issue VIII (IV) - April 2007

The April 2007 issue of the WikiProject Greece newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link.

Thank you.--Yannismarou 19:11, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

book covers

the article is not about the books Hectorian. please revert, thanks. Deniz_C 17:36, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Why on earth does it have to be about the books themselves? It is about what the books advocate. NikoSilver 17:51, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Because it is so. "to illustrate an article discussing the book in question" People are even discussing whether it can be used on the articles on the authors of the books.

Please see these (especially file links section): Image:'Les_têtes_interverties'_play_cover.jpg, Image:'Salem's_Lot_cover.jpg, Image:'Tis.jpg, Image:0-8423-6061-1.jpg, Image:0-88784-753-6.jpg, Image:00000000.jpg. If you need more, check Category:Book_covers. I checked first fifteen. The fifteenth one also has the author. There was one more with two links, one to the book, one to the CD/DVD. Deniz_C 23:16, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

GEIA

Epidi tha lipso to epomeno sarandaochtaoro... Mporis na rihnis kai kammia matia kai s`afto to arthro? Aftos einai o mythoplastis... Thanks. --Asteraki 04:26, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Greece Newsletter - Issue IX (V) - May 2007

The May 2007 issue of the WikiProject Greece newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link.

Thank you.--Yannismarou 20:30, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Flag of Lewis

A "{{prod}}" template has been added to the article Flag of Lewis, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but the article may not satisfy Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice explains why (see also "What Misplaced Pages is not" and Misplaced Pages's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. MRM 20:16, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Project European Union

Hello Hectorian, you are member of the project European Union. I try to create a new project page for the project. You can see it at here Because this should be the project page for all it´s members, please tell me, what you think about it. Please leave your comments on the talkpage of the project.--Thw1309 11:40, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Fascist

You are a fascist.You are anti-Türk --Kızıl Şaman 22:12, 31 July 2007 (UTC)