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Last True Humanitarian

Fidel, God bless you, the last true humanitarian.(i'm sorry but this is not the point of thousnd of Cubans that have died trying to cross the florida strech.or in a jail).

To people: be good and care more about our children’s future. Silent strike 22:01, 7 August 2007 (UTC) I'm really sorry some people they do not understand that Castro is manipulating the free press and this media, already censoring the expression of other Cuban. The same way, hi sensor the expression of the Cuban inside the country. We should focus that wiki is and open space neutral but where we could see multiple opinion. Castro dictatorial government always uses the free media to fulfill his own private interest. That is why I will ask this wiki to open this page to be change because most of the written things are really inaccurate.

Silent strike 22:01, 7 August 2007 (UTC)Silent strike.

Continuation of why are we refusing to call Castro a Dictator?

I am continuing in response to MichaelW comment if anyone is interested in following the discussion then go to the archives to see prior comments The way I look at the definition of coup d'etat is a quick grab for power from an existing government and I agree that Castro did manage to do that. Otherwise he will not be in power today. He try without success to get to power by democratic means but he could not by whatever reasons. POOP Obviously Cubans wanted a change when he grabbed power and many probably though they had something good for a little while with the revolution as long as they were not affected by all the private property confiscations in the name of the people by the revolution (Castro) but we soon learn once he had control of the press that we were going in the path of an authoritarian regime commanded by our commander in chief Castro. As for your comments on Chavez not being a dictator. You must be blind. He seem to have being elected by the people of Venezuela but was he? Do you think his best friend Castro did not lecture him about how to manipulate Venezuela's poor buying their vote? Something he(Chavez) is actually trying to do in the US by offering discounted fuel for heating to poor people? DO you think Chavez does this things because he cares about them? No he does not he cares about that he cares about the influence he can get from those people that he is helping here. Yes Chavez is a dictator also. Have we not seen in the news in radio and tv how he arbitrarily stop the license of an independent TV station because it was critical of his government. What would you have done if Richard Nixon had order using executive power of his government to close the Washington-Post newspaper after that paper showed everyone about the Watergate scandal? I know many of you can not even imagine things like this happening in this country. Just think for a second how democratic is Chavez that now he had to dissolve the equivalent to the Senate and the representative they all happen to vote in favor of giving him full power to rule on his own without the checks and balance of a congress. Do you think those are not the signs of a dictator? Soon Venezuelan will have one ballot were only Chavez appear on it and unfortuanatelly I believe is too late for them to vote him out. I am betting the only way he will relinquish power is when he die just like Castro. Do you think is right that just one person should have so much power? If you answer yes to that last question then I am wasting my time here. Is like going back to the times of Kings and Queens even them were not as powerful as today's modern dictators with access to information at their finger tips with advance computers and technology of all kind to control their own people. Please read Animal Farm if you have not and also 1984. I read those books for the first time when I was in my 30s here in the US. Do you know why? Because Castro does not let those books be published in Cuba. Those books were portraying the life I and millions of other Cubans had to endure under Castro's rule. Slogans like "Patria o Muerte venceremos" finding and enemy to blame for everything (the US) and the list goes on everything there is a portrait of the Cuba I knew well and that foreigners visiting Cuba hardly experience when they get the government guided tour of the goodness of socialism staying at 5 stars hotels only for foreigners. WHat would you say if all of the sudden all the hotels in this country could be use only by rich Europeans visiting here? (that is what happen in Cuba where any foreigner is above any national) I was so impress with those little books. Since the guy that wrote them is long gone and he wrote them even before the Cuban revolution existed. I was surprise to see that totalitarian regimes be leftist or rightist create similar systems were they had to repress people and information. Were "we the people" end up loosing against the monopoly of the state over our life. Where the state decide about how many pants and what type and color you can have during the year and even with who you meet. If you like a system like that you probably should vote for some one like Klinton and then let us say we let her do as she pleases! We will soon loose every freedom we have and you will be looking over your shoulder and being very careful what you say and to whom you talk. Being afraid of "Big Brother" spying on you! Many people do like that kind of system and thrive in it specially is good for the none talented, the snitches the ones that like to live without working hard all they need to do is agree with everything the maximum leader says. that's all. I and many other people think we should have the right to each of us have their own opinion. Is not very far fetch that very soon governments will have the power thru technology to be able to watch over each of us like Big Brother. Everything you do or say will be recorded. Do you think governments any government should have that kind of control over individuals? I think is best a system in which you are able to voice your opinion your POV without fear of getting kill. Without the fear of retribution against your family. Without the fear of losing your job or not getting a job just because you do not happen to agree with what the government think or do. I am a bit sad that many of you have not experience a system like that and think is a good thing. I believe the individual should have the right to choose no the government bureaucrats. I believe we should all have a voice and not necessarily the same voice singing in unison.

SilentVoice 03:42, 12 July 2007 (UTC).

Dear Silent Voice, even by your own definition the Cuban Revolution wasn't a coup d'etat. It was no quick grab for power, it took a couple of years guerilla war and a popular uprising, and Castro's concentration of power was no quick grab either, but the result of a long process. And Chavez didn't "arbitrarily stop the license of an independent TV station because it was critical of his government." Its licence was up for renewal and the renewal was legitimately refused - not because of criticism but because of its involvement in the failed coup. Realistic political opinions need to start from what is - not from what you think it should be.

It would be possible to take your opinions more seriously if you got your basic facts right, and had a basic understanding of what makes the political world tick. It matters very little what any of us think if it is not directly connected to action. We can make all the "I think.... we/they should..." statements we want but unless we have some means of influencing the political decisions we are looking at then we are just mouthing off like any powerless barroom ranter.

This is not the place for you to try and persuade those of us sympathetic to the Cuban Revolution that we are wrong. We are concerned here to maintain an encyclopedia entry of a live and active subject. This means ensuring the entry contains all the major ways of seeing the subject. Your title to this discussion displays your mistake -"...why are we refusing to call Castro a Dictator?" Answer: we aren't refusing - to repeat what I said before - we are refusing to ONLY call him a dictator. That 'we' is collective and contains your and my perspectives - your 'we' is a "...coz I say so" 'we'. If you work out a way to make that real, let us know - we can then have an endless discussion on Silent Voice the Dictator, good or bad?

Personally I think we need blogs attached to contraversial subjects so there is a three level entry system. Us idealogues do battle on the blog, and the talk page is the antechamber where useful statements are sorted from the carnage, rather than the home of semi-suppressed arguments that it currently is. If you want to continue this - start a blog and invite us to participate. MichaelW 07:38, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I am stopping now my useless comments

It is useless to tell a blind person what colors are. Because they can't see them. You guys will never be able to understand why freedom is important. I think is useless for me to continue here. I hope people reading this article realize it is slanted in favor of Castro. Pretty much everything in this article is POV. As to having arguments between two groups or Points of Views is totally useless too. You have your point of view and I have mine. Mine is base in living in the system that Castro created. While yours is base in the fantasy and propaganda that the system creates to attract foreigners like you. That is a big difference in how we can see the system and our level of experience. Workers of the world you will have more to lose than your chains in a communist totalitarian society. Wake up from the snake charmers talk about equality etc. There is none in a communist system. SilentVoice 11:33, 12 July 2007 (UTC).

Dear Silent Voice,

My comments are based on having spent some time in Cuba living and working with ordinary Cubans. I met people who felt like you did, who were blind to the positives of Cuban society because their main desires were not on offer. If you took Cuba out of its historical and political context, then their criticisms would have been valid, but in the face of unrelenting US hostility, their main complaints could only be answered positively by Cuba giving up its independence.

I assure you that I do know the importance of freedom, but I also understand the difference between freedom to and freedom from, and I understand that freedoms claimed by one person are often based on the denial of freedoms to someone else.

Your thought that the article is slanted in favor of Castro speaks more to your misunderstanding of Misplaced Pages than it does of the actual article. Many many editors covering the wide range of opinion about Castro and Cuba, have argued over the content and achieved a result which none of us are entirely happy with. Which is as should be on such a controversial issue. It suggests a balance which is the next best thing to a neutral POV.

Your comments are useless - not because we are blind but because they are a simple repetition of claims we have read many times before, in forms far better argued than you. All you have to say is "this is the way I see it and you MUST agree with me". Sorry mate - it ain't that easy. MichaelW 13:07, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Silent strike 01:06, 9 August 2007 (UTC) Dear brother you got the true about the dictator who got the absolute power in our love country. Many Cubans have die because hi kill then out, or because hi force then to lift the country. People like this (Michael) are his parrots with the pardon of the parrots on the free press. Castro’s merit too little for the time that hi has been in power. Just remember how many children got kill by the Cuban navy when the where trying to lift the country in a wood boat.

Infant mortality in the intro

Does this belong here? At best it is misleading; I'm thinking of rewriting or removing as its not an accurate comparison (no matter how much Moore wants it to be) as the statistics are calculated differently (what is considered a "live" birth) between the US and just about everywhere else (including most of europe), and if you read the literature almost all of the US rate is due to infants that other countries would not even list in their statistics (see PEDIATRICS Vol. 116 No. 6 December 2005, pp. 1487-1491 (doi:10.1542/peds.2005-0392)The Contribution of Withholding or Withdrawing Care to Newborn Mortality Lorayne Barton, MD, MPH and Joan E. Hodgman, MD ). Gtadoc 20:07, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Any truth to Fidel and baseball?

I forget where I heard it, and I'm not sure of its legitimacy, but is it true that Fidel actually tried out in the '50s as a pitcher for the Baltimore Orioles and was rejected? If that's the case, can we blame the O's for the Cuban Missile Crisis? Is there any information regarding this anywhere, or has this been misinterpreted/fabricated throughout the decades since? EaglesFanInTampa 18:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

There's absolutely no truth to that. He wasn't a very good baseball player in the first place, and he was never given the opportunity to try out for any professional baseball team. 68.155.127.112 04:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

JP II is dead...

"Later in the day, though, the pope also made his most critical reference yet to the American economic embargo of Cuba."

I doubt JP II will make any further such references.

Guess not. GoodDay 22:53, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Clearly the intended meaning is that JPII made his most critical statement up to that point, not until the present. Nicolasdz 14:28, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Fidel Castro/Che Guevara Song

There was a song sung by one Christy Moore involving both Fidel Castro and Che Guevera. It praises them for "freeing" Cuba, and is called "Companeros". So shouldn't there be a mention of that in the "Public image" section? Thanks. 81.145.240.114 14:57, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Only in the trivia section. If there's no 'trivia' section, then mention it at Christy Moore. GoodDay 21:43, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Other women, other children

For years now diligent "editors" have been erasing reference to Castro's other women and other children. And yet there is considerable evidence that there are such. El Jigue208.65.188.149 01:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

EJ - do you have some references that we can cite ? -- Beardo 03:14, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Will post when I recover them again....perhaps they are in the Fuentes "Auto" biography but that is an iffy book and will look for a better source. El Jigue208.65.188.149 14:40, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Fidel 'Casanova' Castro? His beard must have been ticklish. GoodDay 21:46, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

reports on Castro's health

According to some exile sources Castro's condition is worsening rapidly El Jigue208.65.188.149 15:25, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

"Coma Andante", "Caga Andante" and "muerto-vivo" you got to give that to the exiles they are ingenious, however I doubt we can use this as a reliable source because of the nature of it, en otras palabras los gringos se van a quejar si la informacion viene de una fuente que ellos no consideren "confiable". -- Caribbean~H.Q. 23:23, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Let's waint until he's dead, before adding further 'health' imformation. Afterall, he won't recovery at that point (though he's doctors might dispute that). GoodDay 20:54, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

A LETTER TO FIDEL CASTRO

Excuse me, I want to write a letter to Fidel Castro. I am from Europe, from Bulgaria. But I don`t know the exact address which I am supposed to write to. Please help me! bulgaria. Please tell me how to find the address or tell me it. Thank you beforehand!!! Ivan from bulgaria bulgaria bulgaria.

This isn't the correct place to make that request. This page is for suggestions on 'improving' this article. GoodDay 17:11, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh, well -- you are, of course, correct GoodDay, but since time may be running out , why not help out this would-be correspondent? Here is the address to which you can write, Ivan, assuming your intended recipient is still in this world -- but you would probably be well-advised to send your letter via DHL Express:

Dr. Fidel Castro Ruz

Presidente del Consejo de Estado

Palacio de la Revolución

La Habana - CUBA.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Polaris999 (talk • contribs) 07:22, August 20, 2007 (UTC).

Castro is dead?

I just heard Castro died from someone that knows someone in Cuba. Cannot verify it. BrknPhoenix 01:56, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Not a verified source, but perezhilton.comand many other news mediums are reporting that Castro is dead.

If he is, I'm sure his doctors will tells us he'll recover. GoodDay 16:40, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't get your comment, they can't hide something like this for long its not like they can rebuild him. Or have the technology or the capability to make the world’s first bionic man. They can't turn a dead man into that nor they can make him better,stronger or faster.”. - Caribbean~H.Q. 02:17, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I heard the Miami Rumor: Castro is dead, Raul and Ricardo Alarcon feuding. Arrests in the department of the Interior ("secret" police), and regular police gathering to prevent riots. El Jigue208.65.188.149 16:50, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Reddit has picked the story up and a conversation is starting there. TheArcologist 20:13, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Not to sound American biased, but we should wait until CNN confirms Castro's death, before adding it to the article. GoodDay 20:51, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree, although it is something to watch. I haven't heard much about this since yesterday and nothing has been confirmed. We'd have nothing to source but PerezHilton if we added it today... TheArcologist 20:56, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Castro has been rumored to be dead since 2006, anyways if he is the goverment wouldn't let the public know at the moment because the island is on a category 4 huriccane alert (see Hurricane Dean for more info) and doing so may result in a civil crisis. - Caribbean~H.Q. 02:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

"Norra Skåne", a Swedish paper with supposedly good sources has just recently published (!) Castro's death. Norra Skåne is a serious and reliable albeit very small Swedish paper based in the Scania region. Wouldn't it be quite a sensation if a minor Swedish paper is the first one to break the news. I'm not suggesting we change the article or anything. Check http://www.nsk.se/apps/pbcs.dll/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.248.242.190 (talk) 20:25, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

An Announcement will be made Friday 8/24 about his death.

And when it is we will add it here. I have opposed Caribbean's full protectiuon request because if this is true we need the article unprotected. So please help by not adding this until it appears on a page like this. Thanks, SqueakBox 21:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Need help with opening box

Could a more tech savvy Misplaced Pages user alter the article's opening box to add the fact that Castro is the head of the Non-Aligned Movement. You know, create one of those categories that has listings of predecessor and successor and whatnot... It would be much appreciated. Nicolasdz 14:34, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Lets see I can probably give it a try, now who was his predecesor? - Caribbean~H.Q. 14:44, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

The head of state of the country where the immediately previous NAM meeting was held would have been his predecessor in this post which is sometimes called "president", sometimes "chairman". Judging from http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200609/16/eng20060916_303402.html, it would seem that this person was the Malaysian prime minister, Abdullah Ahmad Badawi. -- Polaris999 15:27, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Its 1927 not 1926

I can't believe I appear to be the only one around here who knows Fidel Castro was born in 1927, not 1926. Here's the proof:

] ]

Fidel Castro is Dead

Hes dead today. August 24, 2007 2:45PM (EST). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.151.73.165 (talk • contribs)

This source seems pretty shaky, first of all why would the University of Miami know if Castro is dead? second why of all publications would they select a swedish one? Nope not reliable at all we better wait until BBC or CNN report something if they do. - Caribbean~H.Q. 18:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Can someone change the DATE OF DEATH on the page? Even if he happened to have died today, the death is listed as taking place last week on the page.71.56.34.233 19:55, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

No evidence of death and any claims on the page that he is will be treated as simple vandalism just as this thread is trolling so lets not feed them, SqueakBox 19:59, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

dude castro is truly dead sorry Apelike 20:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Well when it comes out it'll dominate every newspaper in the world so we wont have any problems sourcing it. Until then we wait, SqueakBox 20:05, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I already requested full protection for this page as a result of all the speculative edits going on in here. - Caribbean~H.Q. 20:10, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, as of today, August 24, 2007 there have been several rumors circulating here in Miami, Florida that Fidel Castro has died. Reportedly, several people from Cuba have called their families here in Miami telling them that Fidel Castro is in fact dead, although it has not officially been announced to Cubans. Nothing has been made official yet, and since these reports on Castro's death began just today the news sources have not begun to pick up the story. In the coming weeks news sources will probably pick up the story, but I doubt the Cuban government will make an official announcement any time soon. Until then, I don’t think this rumor belongs in the article, but of course they are coming from reliable sources directly in Cuba. He’s dead, we’ll just have to wait and see for now. 68.212.153.60 20:30, 24 August 2007 (UTC) Wiki user: Chris150x

If there are rumours in Florida I suggest you folk go tellt eh press. personally I dont believe it but whatever this will be treated as trolling without it first dominating the news, SqueakBox 20:36, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry I can't undestand what you suggested, can you explain it again? - Caribbean~H.Q. 20:51, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

That if people believe genuinely that Fidel is dead they should report it to the press not wikipedia, SqueakBox 20:53, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. These kinds of rumors have been so rampant the past year, that we should wait for a picture of the corpse. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 21:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I have contacted the local media here in Miami, Florida. They are well aware, but for now it is just simply a rumor and they don't want to start talking about it on the news because that would cause chaos here in South Florida since a great majority of our population is Cuban. I don’t think we will get a picture of the corpse or confirmation from Cuban government any time soon. It could be months until they know for sure. Agreed, the rumor does not belong in the article yet until news sources pick up the story. 68.212.153.60 20:30, 24 August 2007 (UTC) Wiki user: Chris150x

the rumour is genuine but without a proper source even that should not be mentioned, some fascist Swedish newspaper wont do (as was inserted). As an encyclopedia we are fine to just wait, SqueakBox 21:14, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

What fascist newspaper?? Cite? --85.164.185.108 21:38, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Norra Skåne reported that Castro was dead yesterday, or at least so I read in another Swedish newspaper (probably Expressen). Now I can neither find the original report from Norra Skåne, nor the quotation in Expressen, so maybe they were taken off the Internet sites of the respective newspapers. I guess I could go to a library to check if there is anything in the paper edition of either newspaper, but since it seems to have disappeared from the Internet altogether, I would presume that everything is a hoax. I think that Expressen wrote that Norra Skåne had got the information from an unspecified source in Miami. Norra Skåne is a very small, regional, Swedish newspaper, so it would seem highly unlikely that they would be the only one to receive any information about the death of Fidel Castro. Maybe it was just something they came up with in order to sell some extra copies of (presumably) yesterday's issue of the newspaper. (Stefan2 12:55, 25 August 2007 (UTC))

Here is the link to the Norra Skåne re Fidel Castro article which was available on the internet as of 30 seconds ago. The article clearly states that the story is totally based on rumors circulating in Miami. -- Polaris999 15:45, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

We are still missing a cite for that newspaper being fascist. It is a very serious allegation and as such a proper cite is called for. --22:47, 25 August 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.164.185.108 (talk)

I don't regularly read that newspaper, so I can't tell if it's fascist or not, but Swedish Misplaced Pages states that the newspaper supports the Centre Party (which isn't a fascist party) so I would assume that it's not a fascist newspaper. (Stefan2 08:10, 26 August 2007 (UTC))

Prepared to Apologize?

User:Caribbean H.Q., et al: Are you prepared to apologize to your fellow editors when you are proven wrong? --Namescases 21:17, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

• Apologies will not be necessary. Rumors are not verifiable. android79 21:19, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
• (ec)Under no circumstances. We report sourced and notable information we do not break ground on new stories or use rumours to support our artiicles. Whether he is dead or not has no relevance tot his stance right now, SqueakBox 21:20, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
  • False. It is more than a rumor and an apology will be necessary. Its been cited by several sources. Given that we have now established that it is not a rumor, are you prepared to apologize to your fellow editors when you are proven wrong? --Namescases 21:22, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

• • • • Lol, come on, mate, dont take us for fools. Until its in a reliable source (for me that would be the BBC and I am sure my fellow Americans have their own equivalents) it wont be here, we are an encyclopedia not a news agency, SqueakBox 00:06, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
    • Links, please? Keep in mind that sources need to be reliable. android79 21:23, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
      • for one of many. But I am tired of asking if you will apologize or not. We will find out soon enough if you will apologize by yourself, or if we have to go through arbcom. We *will* be made whole. --Namescases 21:28, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
    • Er, no, arbcom wont take any case re the actions of folk like me on thios one, believe me, SqueakBox 00:08, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
      • • a) That's not a reliable source. For news of this magnitude, only a major newspaper or other news outlet will do. b) What's been done here that's actionable by the ArbCom? android79 21:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
          • Well, you are entitled to your opinion on the reliability of that source. Secondly, as of this moment you have not done anything to warrant seeking relief from arbcom. What will be actionable is if you fail to apologize to us once it is crystal clear that he is dead. --21:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
            • Apologize for what, exactly? I think you have some serious misunderstandings about what ArbCom's function is. android79 21:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
              • User conduct, for one. An apology is not at all burdensome. --Namescases 21:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
                • Okay, you are not making much sense, so I'm going to stop trying to figure you out. android79 21:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
                  • How is it confusing? We simply stated that when it is crystal clear he is deceased, we will expect an apology. --Namescases 21:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Me apologize for enforcing the project's policies? hahahahahaha! - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:24, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes. There is this little thing called humility. But again, we'll see what the arbcom results are. --Namescases 21:29, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Whoa! Perez Hilton is not a notable source! WP:V and WP:RS is what guides here. If it is true, it will be added and sourced. Until a reliable source publishes it and verfication can happen, this needs to be sat on. Spryde 21:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Castro is dead and brother is with him, Police departments in FL getting ready and news will break.

Not on your life kid I won't apologize for enforcing the rules, the request is quite pathetic by itself. - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

That is most disappointing, but we will proceed accordingly. --Namescases 21:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

To clarify, the first step will actually be an RfC, not arbcom. Sorry for any confusion. --Namescases 21:39, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I still think you need to hold off. I have no stake in this fight but wait until something more reliable and verifiable is published! Spryde 21:42, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Of course we will hold off. At this point, the misconduct is only potential. --Namescases 21:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Um, User:Caribbean H.Q., et al are following the rules. There has been no misconduct yet. A little borderline WP:CIVIL maybe but until a reliable verifiable source comes along, this bickering is all for naught. Spryde 21:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

To clarify, we never asserted that there was any misconduct, nor are we seeking relief beyond an apology. --Namescases 21:49, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Just for my clairfication, who is "we" :-) Spryde 21:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I assume that you work at perezhilton.com? - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:52, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Me? Heck no. Spryde 21:53, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Not you they, your reply just got in the way, sorry for that. - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:54, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

This case wont be going to Rfc or Rfa. Caribbean or I might persuade an admin to do a little blocking but it wont go further than that. I recognise I am a controversial editor but there isnt a single admin that wouldnt support not only my and Caribbean's actions but any reverts of any attempts to Rfc let alone Rfa on this issue. So please stop trolling as it is getting tiresome thias "you've got to apologise if you are wrong". Wrong in what? Fidel may be dead and perhaps not but the line Caribbean and I have taken up is pure policy either way and trying to troll us or anyone following actual policy will just end up in indef blocks for the trollers. Please dont take that path, help us make a better article instead, SqueakBox 00:20, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

We will bring it to RfC if needed and start that process rolling. I honestly doubt I will be blocked just for suggesting that I bring a matter up for arbitration, as that will be a disastrous precedent indeed. --Namescases 00:31, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Not in this case. Please read our policies before doing anything else, i'll give you a link to a few. Whetehr Fidel is dead or alive has no bearing whatsoever in this case, oyistes? SqueakBox 00:34, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Again, what we are seeking is an "Sorry we doubted you" from certain editors. This is not earth shattering; don't you apologize when you accidentally step on someone's foot? --Namescases 00:36, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

If I doubted that there were rumours, well I was wrong and quickly made up for it. The runmours are genuine. And no, they dont have a place on wikipedia, SqueakBox 00:42, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Again, what I said was we should receive an apology from the editors who removed mentions of Fidel Castro's death from the article on the grounds they are rumors, and said apology should come if and when such a fact becomes crystal clear. I never said Misplaced Pages was a place for rumors. --Namescases 00:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Namescases you can open a RfC if you want, I'm not sure what you are going to debate there but sure go ahead and open one and tell them that you opened it because you demand an apology, but before that make sure you make yourself familiar with WP:HARASS, cheers. - Caribbean~H.Q. 00:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Again, it is premature to open the RfC (see my earlier comments), but if necessary we shall. We shall argue that, as editors we should give and expect apologies when required. Read the relevant article on apology. --Namescases 00:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Great this just keeps getting even more hilarious, Names you (whatever ammount of people that might be) can't do anything, its that simple, you can ask for an apology but if the user(s) don't give it to you there is nothing you can do there is no policy that states someone has to apologize if they offend another users, actually the best you can get is a block for trolling and harrasing other users. - Caribbean~H.Q. 01:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Well that isn't how the world works. I know I've been forced to apologize before, so if I can do it so can you. --Namescases 01:54, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I for one know how wikipedia works (and the world too as it happens, its the price one pays for being middle-aged), if you have apologised before you can do so again. please do so, your attacks on Caribbean given his record today are well out of order because he was never sceptical of the rumours, SqueakBox 01:58, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Names, that my apology didnt sink in isnt to your advantage, and Caribbean was actually more on the ball than me, ie he picked up that the rumours were genuine more quickly than I did. And, hey, we are both Caribbean people who speak Spanish so we really care about this issue as I imagine you do, albeit knowing nothing about you, SqueakBox 01:39, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually I am not Spanish. To be honest I wish nothing but the best for the Cuban people. --Namescases 01:54, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Me neither but I am a businessman in the Caribbean so I do care about economic growth, and yeah the Cuban people deserve all the best, as do all the Caribbean peoples, SqueakBox 02:02, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Names it won't happen, that's about it. I will leave it here, if you do open a RfC let me know so I can laught a little. - Caribbean~H.Q. 02:21, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Purported death

Alright, The Miami Herald is now reporting on the rumors that have been circulating today regarding Fidel Castro's death. You can find the article here: http://www.miamiherald.com/581/story/214415.html

Would it be OK to add the information to the Fidel Castro page now that an official media source has reported on the story? Its not official yet, but at least we have a solid news source reporting on the matter. 68.212.153.60 21:32, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think WP does rumors. Let me check policy on that. Spryde 21:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

• Rumors have circled at various times over the last decade or so that Castro is dead. If it's for real this time, Misplaced Pages can wait for a reliable source to confirm the rumors. Misplaced Pages is not a news service. android79 21:35, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

The Miami Herald is reporting on the rumours themselves, not the content of the rumour. I should think that the MH is exactly the reliable source needed if there were legitimate reports about Castro's death - they would be amongst the first to find out - and by their expressed view I would think that they are giving little credence to the rumours. I think it is still too early to even note this recent rash of rumour. LessHeard vanU 21:48, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Facist newspaper? Cut the bullshit ok? I honestly think it's true this time. Something is going on.

Citing "reliable" sources at the Miami University, the Swedish broad sheet newspaper Norra Skåne reports that Cuban leader Fidel Castro is dead. (Norra Skåne)

Hmm, I don't know what to say, but the Norra Skåne newspaper is not known for making false claims, so who knows... --Camptown 22:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

The journalist at Norra Skåne newspaper that wrote about it was later threatened to death by several cuban journalists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Namram (talk • contribs) 22:13, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

"We received the news from a very reliable source in Miami", the chief editor of Norra Skåne says, adding that the Mr. Castro's death is expected to be officially announced shortly... Well, well.... (The Expressen) --Camptown 22:15, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Another source --User:Charitwo/Sig 05:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Blogs aren't a reliable source. The only legitimate source that are reporting on this are simply reporting on the phenomenon of what Perez Hilton's blog started. Nothing is confirmed yet, and it has been almost three days since they have been saying "they will announce it in a few minutes". 72 hours later, nothings announced. Castro just released another essay. From the grave? Misplaced Pages isn't going to put up blog articles OR news articles that are saying he MIGHT be dead, thats for the premature death rumour section. - IamMcLovin 05:52, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Page protection

I have been asked to protect this page and have (for the moment) declined, because I want us to be able to respond quickly and make rapid updates if Castro's death is announced. However, if people continue to add it to the page, in violation of WIkipedia's rules, I will fully protect the page. Please, understand that we don't have to be the "first" to report it. We're not a news service. Everyone take a big deep breath and let's wait and see. If the edit war continues, I will protect the page. - Philippe | Talk 22:23, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Death

I have, on very good authority, learned that Castro died today (24 AUG 07), sometime before 1430 hrs EST. Rodak1 22:47, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

do you or do you not have any good source? 23:48, 24 August 2007 (UTC)~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.203.24 (talk)

He's dead. No credible source yet. Give it a day, max. http://www.nbc6.net/news/13972518/detail.html --Camipco 05:18, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe Perez Hilton is a credible source. 69.183.31.4 05:49, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

A good source is the BBC, CNN, Granma etc, nothing less will do, SqueakBox 22:45, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Phenomenon of death rumors

I think a section of the very phenomenon of the continuous rumors of Castro's death might well be appropriate. --Camptown 22:44, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Forbes is reporting on the phenomenon. Rumors on Castro's Health Swirl in Miami TransUtopian 23:22, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

This is just an event. Making a phenomenon out of it would be WP:OR --lucid 23:32, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

And a POV. --Boricuaeddie 23:33, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Umm...k, can we have a more reliable source than Perez Hilton ..such as AP or Miami Harold on the Castro death rumors going on today. I dont think Perez is a very reliable source, he's just a blogger, put up Miami Harold or AP as a source, they had articles on the matter too. 68.212.155.163 02:23, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

We have a death rumours section already, and it wouldnt be inappropriate to add to it, but do sensitively and using good sources, SqueakBox 02:35, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Hugo Chávez has just announced that not only is Fidel Castro not dead, he will "never die". A somewhat confusing statement (at least as reported) that perhaps raises more questions than it answers. See Chávez re Castro immortality for details. -- Polaris999 17:43, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Well if its sourced we must add that he will never die! lol, SqueakBox 19:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

What he said was: "For those who want Fidel to die, they are going to end up frustrated because Fidel Castro will never die. He will always live on." I think he meant that his "ideals" would live on, not necessarily himself. IamMcLovin 08:05, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Added the story about him publishing an essay on August 26 (today) from the International Herald Tribune onto the premature death rumors section. - IamMcLovin 19:45, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Apology

Looks like we owe the editors that doubted us an apology. Speaking for myself, I am sorry about it. --Namescases 16:40, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Cheers, mate. Appreciated, SqueakBox 22:06, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

It has absolutely nothing to do with doubt. It's about WP:RS, even if we had seen it with our own eyes --lucid 17:02, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Death of Castro just announced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.221.118.231 (talk) 03:20, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

No...it wasn't. - IamMcLovin 08:16, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Again (as I requested before), let's wait until CNN reports & confirms Castro demise, before adopting it to the article. GoodDay 21:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

We certainly will do...well I'll be waiting for the BBC, but that is the same thing really, SqueakBox 22:05, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Why not Reuters or the Associated Press? That's where everyone else gets their news anyone --lucid 08:08, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Fidel Castro Article

This is just a quick comment about the article. It seems as I read through this the article focuses mostly on Cuba in places, not in fact Castro. I understand completely that some sections are necessary for this to be a successful article but some is just unnecessary. Any thoughts? - IamMcLovin 08:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

1. http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_238083047.html

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