Talk:Fidel Castro: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively ← Previous edit Next edit →Content deleted Content addedVisual WikitextInline

Revision as of 23:39, 29 August 2007 editSpartan (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users2,018 edits →Apology ← Previous edit		Revision as of 15:53, 1 September 2007 edit undo90.154.210.27 (talk) →A LETTER TO FIDEL CASTRO Next edit →
Line 92:		Line 92:
	:::Palacio de la Revolución		:::Palacio de la Revolución
	:::La Habana - CUBA. <small>		:::La Habana - CUBA. <small>

			Thanks a lot, but do i have to write a postal code???:)
	—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]){{#if:07:22, August 20, 2007 (UTC)\| 07:22, August 20, 2007 (UTC)}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->		—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]){{#if:07:22, August 20, 2007 (UTC)\| 07:22, August 20, 2007 (UTC)}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Revision as of 15:53, 1 September 2007

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Fidel Castro article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Template:WikiProject TotalitarianismPlease add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Cold War Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cold War, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Cold War on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Cold WarWikipedia:WikiProject Cold WarTemplate:WikiProject Cold WarCold War
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Biography: Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as High-importance).

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Cuba Top‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cuba, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Cuba related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CubaWikipedia:WikiProject CubaTemplate:WikiProject CubaCuba

Top

This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Cuba task list:

Task list

New article announcements:
Requests: Ambrosio Cave, Calero Cave, Centella Cave, Cuba and the United Nations, Cuevas de Punta del Este, Cura Cave, Patana Cave, Pluma Cave
Stubs: Dollar store (Cuba)
Verify: History of Cuba, Fulgencio Batista
Update: Nochebuena
NPOV: Armando Valladares, Delfín Fernández, History of Cuba
Copyedit: Armando Peraza, Bay of Pigs Invasion, Fabio Grobart, Julio Antonio Mella
Cleanup: Abelardo Colomé Ibarra, Antonio Maceo Grajales, Bay of Pigs Invasion, History of Cuba, List of Cubans, Máximo Gómez, War against the Bandits
Style: Fidel Castro
Expand: Cuba–Soviet Union relations, Baseball in Cuba, Religion in Cuba, Havana's International Book Fair, Cuba–Venezuela relations, Antonio Sánchez de Bustamante y Sirven

Software: Computing

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Software, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of software on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SoftwareWikipedia:WikiProject SoftwareTemplate:WikiProject Softwaresoftware
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Computing.

This topic contains controversial issues, some of which have reached a consensus for approach and neutrality, and some of which may be disputed. Before making any potentially controversial changes to the article, please carefully read the discussion-page dialogue to see if the issue has been raised before, and ensure that your edit meets all of Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. Please also ensure you use an accurate and concise edit summary.

Template:TrollWarning

To-do list for Fidel Castro: edit · history · watch · refresh · Updated 2013-12-07

The article is longer than appropriate for a Misplaced Pages article. Would it make sense to spin off some parts into separate, topical pages?

Is Castro alive or dead? (I know he was very ill) I recommend to change the "summary box" on the right side of his page to start with "Born xxxx" and either "Died xxxx" or "Present age, xxxx", as is done for many other personalities. Otherwise, I hunt through the entire article and still find nothing conclusive.

An event in this article is a January 1 selected anniversary

Archives
Archive 1 (2003 December 2004) Archive 2 (2004 February 2005) Archive 3 (March May 2005) Archive 4 (May June 2005) Archive 5 (June July 2005) Archive 6 (July September 2005) Archive 7 (September October 2005) Archive 8 (October January 2006) Archive 9 (January March 2006) Archive 10 (March April 2006) Archive 11 (April June 2006) Archive 12 (June August 2006) Archive 13 (August 2006) Archive 14 (September 1, 2006 July 11, 2007))

Infant mortality in the intro

Does this belong here? At best it is misleading; I'm thinking of rewriting or removing as its not an accurate comparison (no matter how much Moore wants it to be) as the statistics are calculated differently (what is considered a "live" birth) between the US and just about everywhere else (including most of europe), and if you read the literature almost all of the US rate is due to infants that other countries would not even list in their statistics (see PEDIATRICS Vol. 116 No. 6 December 2005, pp. 1487-1491 (doi:10.1542/peds.2005-0392)The Contribution of Withholding or Withdrawing Care to Newborn Mortality Lorayne Barton, MD, MPH and Joan E. Hodgman, MD ). Gtadoc 20:07, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Any truth to Fidel and baseball?

I forget where I heard it, and I'm not sure of its legitimacy, but is it true that Fidel actually tried out in the '50s as a pitcher for the Baltimore Orioles and was rejected? If that's the case, can we blame the O's for the Cuban Missile Crisis? Is there any information regarding this anywhere, or has this been misinterpreted/fabricated throughout the decades since? Eagles Fan In Tampa 18:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

There's absolutely no truth to that. He wasn't a very good baseball player in the first place, and he was never given the opportunity to try out for any professional baseball team. 68.155.127.112 04:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

JP II is dead...

"Later in the day, though, the pope also made his most critical reference yet to the American economic embargo of Cuba."

I doubt JP II will make any further such references.

Guess not. GoodDay 22:53, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Clearly the intended meaning is that JPII made his most critical statement up to that point, not until the present. Nicolasdz 14:28, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Fidel Castro/Che Guevara Song

There was a song sung by one Christy Moore involving both Fidel Castro and Che Guevera. It praises them for "freeing" Cuba, and is called "Companeros". So shouldn't there be a mention of that in the "Public image" section? Thanks. 81.145.240.114 14:57, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Only in the trivia section. If there's no 'trivia' section, then mention it at Christy Moore. GoodDay 21:43, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Other women, other children

For years now diligent "editors" have been erasing reference to Castro's other women and other children. And yet there is considerable evidence that there are such. El Jigue208.65.188.149 01:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

EJ - do you have some references that we can cite ? -- Beardo 03:14, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Will post when I recover them again....perhaps they are in the Fuentes "Auto" biography but that is an iffy book and will look for a better source. El Jigue208.65.188.149 14:40, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Fidel 'Casanova' Castro? His beard must have been ticklish. GoodDay 21:46, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

reports on Castro's health

According to some exile sources Castro's condition is worsening rapidly El Jigue208.65.188.149 15:25, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

"Coma Andante", "Caga Andante" and "muerto-vivo" you got to give that to the exiles they are ingenious, however I doubt we can use this as a reliable source because of the nature of it, en otras palabras los gringos se van a quejar si la informacion viene de una fuente que ellos no consideren "confiable". -- Caribbean~H.Q. 23:23, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Let's waint until he's dead, before adding further 'health' imformation. Afterall, he won't recovery at that point (though he's doctors might dispute that). GoodDay 20:54, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

A LETTER TO FIDEL CASTRO

Excuse me, I want to write a letter to Fidel Castro. I am from Europe, from Bulgaria. But I don`t know the exact address which I am supposed to write to. Please help me! bulgaria. Please tell me how to find the address or tell me it. Thank you beforehand!!! Ivan from bulgaria bulgaria bulgaria.

This isn't the correct place to make that request. This page is for suggestions on 'improving' this article. GoodDay 17:11, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh, well -- you are, of course, correct GoodDay, but since time may be running out , why not help out this would-be correspondent? Here is the address to which you can write, Ivan, assuming your intended recipient is still in this world -- but you would probably be well-advised to send your letter via DHL Express:

Dr. Fidel Castro Ruz

Presidente del Consejo de Estado

Palacio de la Revolución

La Habana - CUBA.

Thanks a lot, but do i have to write a postal code???:) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Polaris999 (talk • contribs) 07:22, August 20, 2007 (UTC).

Castro is dead?

I just heard Castro died from someone that knows someone in Cuba. Cannot verify it. BrknPhoenix 01:56, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Not a verified source, but perezhilton.comand many other news mediums are reporting that Castro is dead.

If he is, I'm sure his doctors will tells us he'll recover. GoodDay 16:40, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't get your comment, they can't hide something like this for long its not like they can rebuild him. Or have the technology or the capability to make the world’s first bionic man. They can't turn a dead man into that nor they can make him better,stronger or faster.”. - Caribbean~H.Q. 02:17, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I heard the Miami Rumor: Castro is dead, Raul and Ricardo Alarcon feuding. Arrests in the department of the Interior ("secret" police), and regular police gathering to prevent riots. El Jigue208.65.188.149 16:50, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Reddit has picked the story up and a conversation is starting there. TheArcologist 20:13, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Not to sound American biased, but we should wait until CNN confirms Castro's death, before adding it to the article. GoodDay 20:51, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree, although it is something to watch. I haven't heard much about this since yesterday and nothing has been confirmed. We'd have nothing to source but PerezHilton if we added it today... TheArcologist 20:56, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Castro has been rumored to be dead since 2006, anyways if he is the goverment wouldn't let the public know at the moment because the island is on a category 4 huriccane alert (see Hurricane Dean for more info) and doing so may result in a civil crisis. - Caribbean~H.Q. 02:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

"Norra Skåne", a Swedish paper with supposedly good sources has just recently published (!) Castro's death. Norra Skåne is a serious and reliable albeit very small Swedish paper based in the Scania region. Wouldn't it be quite a sensation if a minor Swedish paper is the first one to break the news. I'm not suggesting we change the article or anything. Check http://www.nsk.se/apps/pbcs.dll/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.248.242.190 (talk) 20:25, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

An Announcement will be made Friday 8/24 about his death.

And when it is we will add it here. I have opposed Caribbean's full protectiuon request because if this is true we need the article unprotected. So please help by not adding this until it appears on a page like this. Thanks, SqueakBox 21:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Need help with opening box

Could a more tech savvy Misplaced Pages user alter the article's opening box to add the fact that Castro is the head of the Non-Aligned Movement. You know, create one of those categories that has listings of predecessor and successor and whatnot... It would be much appreciated. Nicolasdz 14:34, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Lets see I can probably give it a try, now who was his predecesor? - Caribbean~H.Q. 14:44, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

The head of state of the country where the immediately previous NAM meeting was held would have been his predecessor in this post which is sometimes called "president", sometimes "chairman". Judging from http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200609/16/eng20060916_303402.html, it would seem that this person was the Malaysian prime minister, Abdullah Ahmad Badawi. -- Polaris999 15:27, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Its 1927 not 1926

I can't believe I appear to be the only one around here who knows Fidel Castro was born in 1927, not 1926. Here's the proof:

] ]

I think Castro & Cuba disagree - remember the 80th birthday party bash, in 2006? GoodDay 21:54, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Fidel Castro is Dead

Hes dead today. August 24, 2007 2:45PM (EST). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.151.73.165 (talk • contribs)

This source seems pretty shaky, first of all why would the University of Miami know if Castro is dead? second why of all publications would they select a swedish one? Nope not reliable at all we better wait until BBC or CNN report something if they do. - Caribbean~H.Q. 18:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Can someone change the DATE OF DEATH on the page? Even if he happened to have died today, the death is listed as taking place last week on the page.71.56.34.233 19:55, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

No evidence of death and any claims on the page that he is will be treated as simple vandalism just as this thread is trolling so lets not feed them, SqueakBox 19:59, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

dude castro is truly dead sorry Apelike 20:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Well when it comes out it'll dominate every newspaper in the world so we wont have any problems sourcing it. Until then we wait, SqueakBox 20:05, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I already requested full protection for this page as a result of all the speculative edits going on in here. - Caribbean~H.Q. 20:10, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, as of today, August 24, 2007 there have been several rumors circulating here in Miami, Florida that Fidel Castro has died. Reportedly, several people from Cuba have called their families here in Miami telling them that Fidel Castro is in fact dead, although it has not officially been announced to Cubans. Nothing has been made official yet, and since these reports on Castro's death began just today the news sources have not begun to pick up the story. In the coming weeks news sources will probably pick up the story, but I doubt the Cuban government will make an official announcement any time soon. Until then, I don’t think this rumor belongs in the article, but of course they are coming from reliable sources directly in Cuba. He’s dead, we’ll just have to wait and see for now. 68.212.153.60 20:30, 24 August 2007 (UTC) Wiki user: Chris150x

If there are rumours in Florida I suggest you folk go tellt eh press. personally I dont believe it but whatever this will be treated as trolling without it first dominating the news, SqueakBox 20:36, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry I can't undestand what you suggested, can you explain it again? - Caribbean~H.Q. 20:51, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

That if people believe genuinely that Fidel is dead they should report it to the press not wikipedia, SqueakBox 20:53, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. These kinds of rumors have been so rampant the past year, that we should wait for a picture of the corpse. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 21:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I have contacted the local media here in Miami, Florida. They are well aware, but for now it is just simply a rumor and they don't want to start talking about it on the news because that would cause chaos here in South Florida since a great majority of our population is Cuban. I don’t think we will get a picture of the corpse or confirmation from Cuban government any time soon. It could be months until they know for sure. Agreed, the rumor does not belong in the article yet until news sources pick up the story. 68.212.153.60 20:30, 24 August 2007 (UTC) Wiki user: Chris150x

the rumour is genuine but without a proper source even that should not be mentioned, some fascist Swedish newspaper wont do (as was inserted). As an encyclopedia we are fine to just wait, SqueakBox 21:14, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

What fascist newspaper?? Cite? --85.164.185.108 21:38, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Norra Skåne reported that Castro was dead yesterday, or at least so I read in another Swedish newspaper (probably Expressen). Now I can neither find the original report from Norra Skåne, nor the quotation in Expressen, so maybe they were taken off the Internet sites of the respective newspapers. I guess I could go to a library to check if there is anything in the paper edition of either newspaper, but since it seems to have disappeared from the Internet altogether, I would presume that everything is a hoax. I think that Expressen wrote that Norra Skåne had got the information from an unspecified source in Miami. Norra Skåne is a very small, regional, Swedish newspaper, so it would seem highly unlikely that they would be the only one to receive any information about the death of Fidel Castro. Maybe it was just something they came up with in order to sell some extra copies of (presumably) yesterday's issue of the newspaper. (Stefan2 12:55, 25 August 2007 (UTC))

Here is the link to the Norra Skåne re Fidel Castro article which was available on the internet as of 30 seconds ago. The article clearly states that the story is totally based on rumors circulating in Miami. -- Polaris999 15:45, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

We are still missing a cite for that newspaper being fascist. It is a very serious allegation and as such a proper cite is called for. --22:47, 25 August 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.164.185.108 (talk)

I don't regularly read that newspaper, so I can't tell if it's fascist or not, but Swedish Misplaced Pages states that the newspaper supports the Centre Party (which isn't a fascist party) so I would assume that it's not a fascist newspaper. (Stefan2 08:10, 26 August 2007 (UTC))

Prepared to Apologize?

User:Caribbean H.Q., et al: Are you prepared to apologize to your fellow editors when you are proven wrong? --Namescases 21:17, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Apologies will not be necessary. Rumors are not verifiable. android 79 21:19, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
(ec)Under no circumstances. We report sourced and notable information we do not break ground on new stories or use rumours to support our artiicles. Whether he is dead or not has no relevance tot his stance right now, SqueakBox 21:20, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
- False. It is more than a rumor and an apology will be necessary. Its been cited by several sources. Given that we have now established that it is not a rumor, are you prepared to apologize to your fellow editors when you are proven wrong? --Namescases 21:22, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

- - - Lol, come on, mate, dont take us for fools. Until its in a reliable source (for me that would be the BBC and I am sure my fellow Americans have their own equivalents) it wont be here, we are an encyclopedia not a news agency, SqueakBox 00:06, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
  - Links, please? Keep in mind that sources need to be reliable. android79 21:23, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
    - for one of many. But I am tired of asking if you will apologize or not. We will find out soon enough if you will apologize by yourself, or if we have to go through arbcom. We *will* be made whole. --Namescases 21:28, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
  - Er, no, arbcom wont take any case re the actions of folk like me on thios one, believe me, SqueakBox 00:08, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
    - - a) That's not a reliable source. For news of this magnitude, only a major newspaper or other news outlet will do. b) What's been done here that's actionable by the ArbCom? android 79 21:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
        Well, you are entitled to your opinion on the reliability of that source. Secondly, as of this moment you have not done anything to warrant seeking relief from arbcom. What will be actionable is if you fail to apologize to us once it is crystal clear that he is dead. --21:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
        Apologize for what, exactly? I think you have some serious misunderstandings about what ArbCom's function is. android 79 21:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
        User conduct, for one. An apology is not at all burdensome. --Namescases 21:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
        Okay, you are not making much sense, so I'm going to stop trying to figure you out. android 79 21:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
        How is it confusing? We simply stated that when it is crystal clear he is deceased, we will expect an apology. --Namescases 21:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Me apologize for enforcing the project's policies? hahahahahaha! - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:24, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes. There is this little thing called humility. But again, we'll see what the arbcom results are. --Namescases 21:29, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Whoa! Perez Hilton is not a notable source! WP:V and WP:RS is what guides here. If it is true, it will be added and sourced. Until a reliable source publishes it and verfication can happen, this needs to be sat on. Spryde 21:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Castro is dead and brother is with him, Police departments in FL getting ready and news will break.

Not on your life kid I won't apologize for enforcing the rules, the request is quite pathetic by itself. - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

That is most disappointing, but we will proceed accordingly. --Namescases 21:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

To clarify, the first step will actually be an RfC, not arbcom. Sorry for any confusion. --Namescases 21:39, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I still think you need to hold off. I have no stake in this fight but wait until something more reliable and verifiable is published! Spryde 21:42, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Of course we will hold off. At this point, the misconduct is only potential. --Namescases 21:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Um, User:Caribbean H.Q., et al are following the rules. There has been no misconduct yet. A little borderline WP:CIVIL maybe but until a reliable verifiable source comes along, this bickering is all for naught. Spryde 21:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

To clarify, we never asserted that there was any misconduct, nor are we seeking relief beyond an apology. --Namescases 21:49, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Just for my clairfication, who is "we" :-) Spryde 21:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I assume that you work at perezhilton.com? - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:52, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Me? Heck no. Spryde 21:53, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Not you they, your reply just got in the way, sorry for that. - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:54, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

This case wont be going to Rfc or Rfa. Caribbean or I might persuade an admin to do a little blocking but it wont go further than that. I recognise I am a controversial editor but there isnt a single admin that wouldnt support not only my and Caribbean's actions but any reverts of any attempts to Rfc let alone Rfa on this issue. So please stop trolling as it is getting tiresome thias "you've got to apologise if you are wrong". Wrong in what? Fidel may be dead and perhaps not but the line Caribbean and I have taken up is pure policy either way and trying to troll us or anyone following actual policy will just end up in indef blocks for the trollers. Please dont take that path, help us make a better article instead, SqueakBox 00:20, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

We will bring it to RfC if needed and start that process rolling. I honestly doubt I will be blocked just for suggesting that I bring a matter up for arbitration, as that will be a disastrous precedent indeed. --Namescases 00:31, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Not in this case. Please read our policies before doing anything else, i'll give you a link to a few. Whetehr Fidel is dead or alive has no bearing whatsoever in this case, oyistes? SqueakBox 00:34, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Again, what we are seeking is an "Sorry we doubted you" from certain editors. This is not earth shattering; don't you apologize when you accidentally step on someone's foot? --Namescases 00:36, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

If I doubted that there were rumours, well I was wrong and quickly made up for it. The runmours are genuine. And no, they dont have a place on wikipedia, SqueakBox 00:42, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Again, what I said was we should receive an apology from the editors who removed mentions of Fidel Castro's death from the article on the grounds they are rumors, and said apology should come if and when such a fact becomes crystal clear. I never said Misplaced Pages was a place for rumors. --Namescases 00:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Namescases you can open a RfC if you want, I'm not sure what you are going to debate there but sure go ahead and open one and tell them that you opened it because you demand an apology, but before that make sure you make yourself familiar with WP:HARASS, cheers. - Caribbean~H.Q. 00:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Again, it is premature to open the RfC (see my earlier comments), but if necessary we shall. We shall argue that, as editors we should give and expect apologies when required. Read the relevant article on apology. --Namescases 00:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Great this just keeps getting even more hilarious, Names you (whatever ammount of people that might be) can't do anything, its that simple, you can ask for an apology but if the user(s) don't give it to you there is nothing you can do there is no policy that states someone has to apologize if they offend another users, actually the best you can get is a block for trolling and harrasing other users. - Caribbean~H.Q. 01:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Well that isn't how the world works. I know I've been forced to apologize before, so if I can do it so can you. --Namescases 01:54, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I for one know how wikipedia works (and the world too as it happens, its the price one pays for being middle-aged), if you have apologised before you can do so again. please do so, your attacks on Caribbean given his record today are well out of order because he was never sceptical of the rumours, SqueakBox 01:58, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Names, that my apology didnt sink in isnt to your advantage, and Caribbean was actually more on the ball than me, ie he picked up that the rumours were genuine more quickly than I did. And, hey, we are both Caribbean people who speak Spanish so we really care about this issue as I imagine you do, albeit knowing nothing about you, SqueakBox 01:39, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually I am not Spanish. To be honest I wish nothing but the best for the Cuban people. --Namescases 01:54, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Me neither but I am a businessman in the Caribbean so I do care about economic growth, and yeah the Cuban people deserve all the best, as do all the Caribbean peoples, SqueakBox 02:02, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Names it won't happen, that's about it. I will leave it here, if you do open a RfC let me know so I can laught a little. - Caribbean~H.Q. 02:21, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Purported death

Alright, The Miami Herald is now reporting on the rumors that have been circulating today regarding Fidel Castro's death. You can find the article here: http://www.miamiherald.com/581/story/214415.html

Would it be OK to add the information to the Fidel Castro page now that an official media source has reported on the story? Its not official yet, but at least we have a solid news source reporting on the matter. 68.212.153.60 21:32, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think WP does rumors. Let me check policy on that. Spryde 21:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Rumors have circled at various times over the last decade or so that Castro is dead. If it's for real this time, Misplaced Pages can wait for a reliable source to confirm the rumors. Misplaced Pages is not a news service. android 79 21:35, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

The Miami Herald is reporting on the rumours themselves, not the content of the rumour. I should think that the MH is exactly the reliable source needed if there were legitimate reports about Castro's death - they would be amongst the first to find out - and by their expressed view I would think that they are giving little credence to the rumours. I think it is still too early to even note this recent rash of rumour. LessHeard vanU 21:48, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Facist newspaper? Cut the bullshit ok? I honestly think it's true this time. Something is going on.

Citing "reliable" sources at the Miami University, the Swedish broad sheet newspaper Norra Skåne reports that Cuban leader Fidel Castro is dead. (Norra Skåne)

Hmm, I don't know what to say, but the Norra Skåne newspaper is not known for making false claims, so who knows... --Camptown 22:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

The journalist at Norra Skåne newspaper that wrote about it was later threatened to death by several cuban journalists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Namram (talk • contribs) 22:13, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

"We received the news from a very reliable source in Miami", the chief editor of Norra Skåne says, adding that the Mr. Castro's death is expected to be officially announced shortly... Well, well.... (The Expressen) --Camptown 22:15, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Another source --User:Charitwo/Sig 05:46, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Blogs aren't a reliable source. The only legitimate source that are reporting on this are simply reporting on the phenomenon of what Perez Hilton's blog started. Nothing is confirmed yet, and it has been almost three days since they have been saying "they will announce it in a few minutes". 72 hours later, nothings announced. Castro just released another essay. From the grave? Misplaced Pages isn't going to put up blog articles OR news articles that are saying he MIGHT be dead, thats for the premature death rumour section. - IamMcLovin 05:52, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Page protection

I have been asked to protect this page and have (for the moment) declined, because I want us to be able to respond quickly and make rapid updates if Castro's death is announced. However, if people continue to add it to the page, in violation of WIkipedia's rules, I will fully protect the page. Please, understand that we don't have to be the "first" to report it. We're not a news service. Everyone take a big deep breath and let's wait and see. If the edit war continues, I will protect the page. - Philippe | Talk 22:23, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Death

I have, on very good authority, learned that Castro died today (24 AUG 07), sometime before 1430 hrs EST. Rodak1 22:47, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

do you or do you not have any good source? 23:48, 24 August 2007 (UTC)~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.203.24 (talk)

He's dead. No credible source yet. Give it a day, max. http://www.nbc6.net/news/13972518/detail.html --Camipco 05:18, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe Perez Hilton is a credible source. 69.183.31.4 05:49, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

A good source is the BBC, CNN, Granma etc, nothing less will do, SqueakBox 22:45, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Someone suggested that if an announcement of this nature were about to be made, we would see a lot more police on the streets of Havana. No sign of any such yet. -- Beardo 21:02, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Phenomenon of death rumors

I think a section of the very phenomenon of the continuous rumors of Castro's death might well be appropriate. --Camptown 22:44, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Forbes is reporting on the phenomenon. Rumors on Castro's Health Swirl in Miami TransUtopian 23:22, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

This is just an event. Making a phenomenon out of it would be WP:OR --lucid 23:32, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

And a POV. --Boricuaeddie 23:33, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Umm...k, can we have a more reliable source than Perez Hilton ..such as AP or Miami Harold on the Castro death rumors going on today. I dont think Perez is a very reliable source, he's just a blogger, put up Miami Harold or AP as a source, they had articles on the matter too. 68.212.155.163 02:23, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

We have a death rumours section already, and it wouldnt be inappropriate to add to it, but do sensitively and using good sources, SqueakBox 02:35, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Hugo Chávez has just announced that not only is Fidel Castro not dead, he will "never die". A somewhat confusing statement (at least as reported) that perhaps raises more questions than it answers. See Chávez re Castro immortality for details. -- Polaris999 17:43, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Well if its sourced we must add that he will never die! lol, SqueakBox 19:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

What he said was: "For those who want Fidel to die, they are going to end up frustrated because Fidel Castro will never die. He will always live on." I think he meant that his "ideals" would live on, not necessarily himself. IamMcLovin 08:05, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Or perhaps he meant something like this: Sharon's condition unchanged after 2 years -- Polaris999 22:08, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Added the story about him publishing an essay on August 26 (today) from the International Herald Tribune onto the premature death rumors section. - IamMcLovin 19:45, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Apology

Looks like we owe the editors that doubted us an apology. Speaking for myself, I am sorry about it. --Namescases 16:40, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Cheers, mate. Appreciated, SqueakBox 22:06, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

It has absolutely nothing to do with doubt. It's about WP:RS, even if we had seen it with our own eyes --lucid 17:02, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Death of Castro just announced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.221.118.231 (talk) 03:20, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

No...it wasn't. - IamMcLovin 08:16, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Again (as I requested before), let's wait until CNN reports & confirms Castro demise, before adopting it to the article. GoodDay 21:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

We certainly will do...well I'll be waiting for the BBC, but that is the same thing really, SqueakBox 22:05, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Why not Reuters or the Associated Press? That's where everyone else gets their news anyone --lucid 08:08, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

In agreement with 'SqueakBox'; let's wait until international news coverage - confirms. GoodDay 21:56, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

IT IS NOT A RUMOR CASTRO HAS BEEN DEAD FOR OVER A WEEK I HAVE A FAMILY FRIEND FROM CUBA AND SHE HAS TALKED TO HER RELATIVES WHO ALL SAY CASTRO HAS DIED. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.184.83.72 (talk) 22:06, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

If it isn't a rumor, and all your Cuban relatives are in the know for some reason, there are other people that aren't Cuban's, including news correspondents. These correspondents know people within the Cuban community and it isn't possible for something like that to be kept quiet except for all the Cuban families. The only source that actually reported it was PerezHilton.com and Castro has also been public last Sunday and Monday. CNN and all the other have simply reported on the rumor. Get over it, without any really sources, even if we don't hear about him for thirty years, we need SOURCES. IamMcLovin 23:39, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Fidel Castro Article

This is just a quick comment about the article. It seems as I read through this the article focuses mostly on Cuba in places, not in fact Castro. I understand completely that some sections are necessary for this to be a successful article but some is just unnecessary. Any thoughts? - IamMcLovin 08:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Just "(born August 13, 1926)"?

Is there any kind of policy on what follows DOB in an article on someone who may or may not be dead? Does it just read as any other article on a currently living person? I don't belong to any side of this "Is castro dead?" debate going on, but I'd say the rumours are too strong to just ignore the possibility that he is already deceased in the opening. 75.69.110.227 02:53, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Castro is alive until proven dead. Besides which, he's not dead. Grand master ka 02:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I know what WP:VERIFY says, thank you very much.

Think of it this way. If someone was lost at sea, you might never prove when or if they died. However, you use the knowledge that they were lost at sea to come to the reasonable conclusion that in all likelihood they are dead. Would you leave the opening of their wikipedia article with just a date of birth? Based on a substantial amount of information from various international media sources over the past year or so, we know that it's very possible that Castro has died (or that his health is continuing to fail). This isn't original research, but it is speculation. But my point here is that it doesn't matter whether he's dead or not, it matters that his health is the subject of widespread rumors and speculation. It's unlikely that so many people would pick up on whispers of Castro's death if the claim had absolutely no basis of merit. Rather than leave the article in the state you would find it if Castro was in perfect health like any other living person article on wikipedia, I feel like something should identify this in the opening. You can add speculation about pretty much anything to wikipedia as long as it's properly sourced. Why can't you add speculation relating to one of the simplest pieces of information in the entire article? 75.69.110.227 06:06, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

There's a lot of people that think that the earth is flat, too. That doesn't make them correct. Until an official or extremely reliable announcement is given, Misplaced Pages should assume they are still alive. If someone was lost at sea, we'd wait at least for a formal funeral or such before we add anything, and we'd still only put it down in the death section. Right now, they're nothing more than rumours, and shouldn't be treated as such. --lucid 06:13, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

In addition, Osama Bin Laden has been reported dead for awhile now but Misplaced Pages still does not have a date of death because there is no verifibility of it. Spryde 11:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Has he? I suppose several magazines have claimed that over the years, but how would they know? do they have a special correspondent in Al-Qaeda or something? did they find his body in a river? My point is, just because someone says a person dead, does not prove in any way he is actually dead, so until then lets just keep it as is. IamMcLovin 18:07, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_238083047.html

Categories: