Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 04:18, 8 September 2007

"First Saudi State" Clean-Up

I just saw your edits, Ammar, and I have a few comments:

(1) There was in fact a Constantinople in 1818. The Ottomans still referred to their capital as such in official documents for many centuries after they captured it, and so did the Europeans until 1924. In fact, there are old Ottoman coins that say "Kustantiniyye" on them in beautiful Arabic script :) . So, I think "Constantinople" is more in line with the spirit of that time period than Istanbul. By the way, if you look closely at the two words you'll notice that "Istanbul" is just a corruption of "Constantinople" that occurred over time. In fact, the word "Stamboul" was used to refer to the city even when it was still in the hands of the Greeks. I'm not going to change it back, because Istanbul is also correct; I just wanted to correct this misconception.

(2) I notice that you changed "Shi'ite" to "Shia" and "Najd to "Nejd". Are you saying that it's preferable to use a transliteration that's closer to the original Arabic pronunciation? You also changed "Muhammad" to "Mohammed", even though "Mohammed" is an older usage associated with orientalist and "Muhammad" is the more modern, acceptable spelling. Is there a wikipedia rule on these things that I'm not aware of?

(3) You also changed "'Asir" to "Asir", even though 'Asir is closer to the original Arabic, and the wikipedia page on the subject is called "'Asir" not "Asir".

(4) Finally, you changed "cleanse" to "clean". I changed it back because I think "cleanse" is a better-suited word in the academic context. Slackerlawstudent 01:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

hello again friend :)

Arab article

As I did read this article, it contains a lot of unusual information, propagandistic views and weasel words in the article Arab. I therefore would like to get a group with me who are able to rewrite this article in a best way to get best results. Anyone who want to join our team add your name below in the Arab Talk page. Please note that after the team has gathered, we will place "under-progress" tag. Irqirq 14:50, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

(1) you right , i just read that , i used to believe it was renamed in 1453 , but i think i was wrong :)

(2) please check this out : Talk:Shia_Islam#Poll_for_clarification , there is no wiki rules about changing such names , but wiki community prefer much more words in commons , for example if you search on google about "USA" and "US of A" you would find more result hits for "USA" in this case we better use it :) , same with thing with the name "Mohammed" :).

"Nejd" is more common in english refrences , english people often change cities names a little as you know :) for example : Cairo (qahira) , Hejaz (hijaz) , Yemen (yaman) , Allepo (halap) ....etc :).

(3) same case of number (2). but u still able to restore it :)

(4) you got that , sorry for my bad :). Ammar 09:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Second Vandalism warning

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, unconstructive edits, such as those you made to Zayd ibn Ali, are considered vandalism. If you continue in this manner you may be blocked from editing without further warning. Please stop, and consider improving rather than damaging the work of others. Thank you.

<unsigned; by Al-Zaidi 16:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)>

Zayd ibn Ali

I arranged the article in a fashion that only non religious material is considered the main section. All references to Zayd ibn Ali in texts mentioned in Sayyid-Ali Al-Zaidi's article " A short history..." is in the section of other literature. As for your work on Zayd ibn Ali's role in the 740 rebellion, i dedicated an entirely new page to the revolt and placed all your research in the article Zaidi Revolt.Al-Zaidi 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Faisal

		The Original Barnstar
		For taking the time and effort to add sources to an important article that was without. Keep up the good work! -- Avi 06:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I, too, am very happy with the work you've done on this article.Proabivouac 08:58, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Request

Hello boss , can you start this article ? you can use Second Saudi State & Rashidi as refrences . have a nice day Ammar ( - ) 08:07, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Ahlan wa sahlan Boss, and thanks for gracing my humble page. Unfortunately, the Saudi-Rashidi Conflict is a big topic that needs a lot of reading and references, and I'm going to be cutting down on my contributions to wikipedia for the next couple of months due to school. The most I can do right now is write something really brief like what we have for First Saudi State. I plan on expanding most of the Saudi history articles next semester anyway. Slacker 08:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

ok ya pasha :) , i see u r interested in Nejdi articles so i thought u know much more than me about this :) i'll let this job for u anyways :) yalla take care Ammar ( - ) 08:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Thanks for the message. Assuming that the change is accurate, good job :) --Striver - talk 12:54, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

saudi map

hello, just to answer your question, I used Adobe Illustrator to modify that image. Regards --Astrokey44 22:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

name

Actually majority of Iranians have Arabic names. But Tabaristani and Razi are not Arabic names either. He was from Ray near modern Tehran and he has some Persian statements in some books. --alidoostzadeh 00:46, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Well my two books were sourced. If you have any prominent English sources please bring them forward. We can't just go by name. I have found Al-Taymi Al-Bakri possibly in one source (not sure if it refers to Razi), but that could also denote Mawali who adopted the names of their client tribe. What classical book has his full name?--alidoostzadeh 00:58, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Also we have lots of Seyyeds descendants of the Prophet in Iran, but they are considered Persian/Iranian. There use to be people also claiming descent from Abu Bakr (the title would be Sharif) where-as for Seyyeds it would be Alid. It seems Ibn Khalikhan says Razi might possibly have been a descendant of Abu Bakr which is in the article, but this point is not necessarily proven. Anyways many Iranians claim Alid descent (from Hazrat Ali(AS) but they are not Arabs culturally or even ethnically (due to massive intermarriage). For example Khomeini claims descent from the 7th Shi'ite Imam (buried in Kazemin Iraq) but he is generally considered Persian. So I guess we can mention the Abu Bakr descent as well and the the two do not necessarily contradict each other since a good amount of Iranians claim descent from Quraish (Seyyeds). Like Seyyed Sistani in Iraq right now. --alidoostzadeh 01:03, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Many seyyeds in Iran speak Arabic.. Or for example Ayatollah Sistani who writes most of his work in Arabic as well and has lived mainly in Iraq but considers himself Iranian. I think the Ghazanfar source actually distinguishes between persian and Arab speaker.. which the same thing. I think Razi was of mixed descent and I think besides my two sources we can mention his Abu Bakr descent.. so the informations complement each other. --alidoostzadeh 02:08, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

mayors

Mayors of large cities are generally regarded as notable--I took the liberty of removing the deletion tag from Abdul Aziz ibn Ayyaf Al-Miqrin, and I urge you to add whatever information you have: his education, his previous positions, anything notable he may have done. It would help to have English language sources, but even if the ones you have are Arabic, put them in. There should be something in English available, since so many Arabic news sources have English versions.DGG 08:10, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the words of Ibn Qayyim

Ahlan wa sahlan. We have a discussion regarding the correct translation and the actual meaning of something written by Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya. We might need an opinion from some native arabic speakers in order to reach consensus. If this caught your interest, feel free to join our discussion at Talk:Hadith of Sabra reporting on the prohibition of Mut'ah. Thank you. Hamid-Masri 11:30, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Arab Christians

Hello, Slacker. Thank you very much. I will try to look into it soon. Thank you for your message. Hamid-Masri 08:17, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I think I have refenced it now. If I haven't, please contact me again.Bless sins 15:38, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The complete source is in the "References" section. Second one.Bless sins 03:15, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Block

Slackerlawstudent (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

87.101.244.6 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

Block message:

{openproxy}

• Blocking administrator: Eagle 101 (talk • blocks)

Decline reason: Sorry, we do not permit editing from open proxies. — Yamla 23:59, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Award

		The Saudi Arabian Barnstar
		Hey boss , better study History rather than Law , keep the good work :) Ammar ( - ) 16:41, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Shukran Jazilan Ammar, I really appreciate it. You deserve a ton of barnstars yourself. Keep it up. -- Slacker 07:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

You welcome Ammar ( - ) 07:36, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

re: Ras Tanura Middle School

Hi Slacker! Well, that's more of a personal opinion than policy. I'm not sure what a school has to do to become notable... not every school is Stuyvesant, after all. Please feel free to re-prod, it was in no way a decision informed by policy... de-prodding doesn't have to be. Regards, Riana (talk) 07:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Salam. May be you can help me. Do you know the name of Abu al-'As ibn Umayyah? Or is it just Abu al-'As? --Lanov 01:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Ammar told me to talk to you

Can you take a look at the discussion section of Ancient Arabia, thats whenever you have the time. --Skatewalk 20:16, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Kindah article

Do you have details about which tribes of Ma'ad (later Adnan) were allied to Kindah?. (because I wasn't sure). I know Abdul Qais bin Rabiah had fueds with Kindah, I am not sure if they were allies with Al-Hira or not. Take a look at the article when you have time. I also did the article about Qais bin Ailan and Mudar, (I stopped after Khaiybar). I am pretty sure you know more about the new tribes that relate to Qais. W Salam--Skatewalk 14:20, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Kindah and Qays

I know that Bakr ibn Wa'il were ruled by Kindah. Possibly also Banu 'Amir (ar:بنو عامر بن صعصعة) (who were part of Qays 'Aylan). I'll try to search for others.

As for modern tribes that belong to Qays, the ones that I know of are: 'Utaybah, Mutayr, Subay', the Suhool, and most of the tribes of southern Iraq (Bani Kaab, Ubadah, Khafajah, and al-Mintifij المنتفق). Utaybah is possibly from Hawazin, and Mutayr claim to be from Ghatafan. Subay', the Suhool, and the Iraqi tribes all belong to Banu 'Amir, especially Banu Uqayl. Also, the Jabrids belong to Bani Uqayl from Bani 'Amir from Qays Aylan, and there is a remnant of Bani Sulaym still living near Medina.

By the way, the Hawazin branch is much larger than the Ghatafan branch, especially because the tribes of Bani 'Amir are included under Hawazin.

Two minor notes: usually the sources speak of قيس عيلان Qays Aylan, not Qays ibn Aylan, and بنو سليم is pronounced Banu Sulaym, not Saleem.

Keep up the good work! -- Slacker 10:51, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the Kindah information. Are Banu 'Amir related to the Banu 'Amir rulers of Libya? the Marj ibn 'Amir of the Jalil, Jabal 'Amir in Syria?

Banu Sulaym indeed is the proper name, Are they related to the Banu Sulaym who followed Banu Hilal into North Africa? both tribes were known as Yemeni. Although Banu Hilal stayed in Hejaz in Nejd on their way to Egypt.

Are they the same Banu Sulaym? who were in Nejd 1030s?

Thanks for the info. --Skatewalk 11:50, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the Ancient Arabia article CC Ammar

User Elias merged the article again with Pre Islamic Arabia? What should we do? (both are protected) and both articles were rejected by Elias and Elias only!

Sorry to give you headache, about the Ancient Arabia article again, but if we don't protect our history no one will! below is the summmary of a problem you are familiar with:

• The Akkadians lived in Arabia before they entered Mesopotamia. (even Elias himself knows that and admited to it)

below are links to neutral non Arab websites. The Akkadians Arabian origin, The Akkadians migration from ArabiaFirst result search for Akkadians

• The article is related to the ancient Arabs, not modern Arabs.
• The article mentions the (Akkadians only) as an ancient Arab tribe before entering Mesopotamia, the rest of the Mesopotamian tribes were not considered Arab. That still didnt work well for Elias!
• Elias simply made it clear that the Akkadians should not be mentioned in Ancient Arabia history just because they were not modern Arabs! although the Eastern branch of Semitic is extinct in the North and the only related languages are still spoken in Arabia Eastern South Semitic
• I also added a section that clearly states that modern Christian Assyrians, Arameans are not Arabs.
• Elias is currently Vandalizing another article I created Ancient Arabia (because he protected Ancient Arabs after merging it to PreIslamic Arabia). Although PreIslamic Arabia (refers to 'asr Aljahiliya) and Ancient Arabia starts from the earliest known civilizations in Arabia. And he deleted the Saudi Wiki project template(?)

Quoting Elias: they lived on Arabia that makes them an ancient tribe of Arabia! — It wasn't called Arabia at that time, and they did not live with any Arab people, because they were the first Semitic people. Arabs didn't exist at the same time as the Akkadians. Why should I not mention them! they are a very important group that lived in Arabia! — At some point in time, the people that are now Germans and Japanese, probably also had ancestors who lived in Arabia. It doesn't make them Arabs. — EliasAlucard|Talk 03:02 14 Aug, 2007 (UTC)

So because Arabia wasnt called ARabia back then, we cant have a istory article on Ancient Arabia! Using his rule, we will ave to Delete every anciet article in Misplaced Pages including Egypt because it wasnt callled Egypt back then!

The ancient Akkadians lived in Arabia, spoke Eastern Semitic. Modern Assyrians speak West Semitic, Eastern Semitic only exists in South Arabia small groups Yemen and Oman today.

• At worse case scenario, Even if the Akkadians spoke an IndoEuropean language, does that exlude them from the history of ancient Arabia!

I will appeciate your help to protect the Ancient Arabia and [[Ancient Arabs articles both are being force-merged by Elias to the smaller Pre-Islamic Arabia article.

A look at Elias history and his sock puppet User:Dbachmann and you will se the organized extremist Assyrianist edits. He will not acept any evidence even if Sargon himself came to beg him to keep the article about his original homeland in Arabia, he will call Sargon an Arabist! And for the record I am against Arabizing! I believe in the originality of history and respecting other cultures, look at my edits. I never delete any work. I disagree with imposing Arabizing non Arabs. And ancient Arabia doesnt have anything to do with modern political Arabism!--Skatewalk 13:42, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

about maps

Yes boss, they look perfect . Try to make them a fair use images with a lower quality. Ammar ( - ) 15:19, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Can you fix the article AncientArabia?

• Hi Slacker, can you give me the link you told me about?
• I agree with you Arabian sounds less relevant to modern "Arab". Can you replace it when you have time? Because I dont want to drive Elias deeep into his paranoia with my constant edits in that article.

Thanks--Skatewalk 19:06, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Banu hilal and Banu Sulaym

Can you fix the articles because they say Banu Hilal is a Qahtani tribe. (although the dialect of Libyans is very closely related to Yemen). However, if the Banu Sulaym you mentioned are from Medina. Are they a mixed modern federation? since Medina itslef has (Azdi's) among them. I really dont think there is any true pure Qahtani tribes anymore after the Islamic invasions, because of the garrison towns and mixing, but you know about this more than me. see the Banu Hilal I didnt want to edit because I wasnt sure. and the linguistic connections to Yemeni dialects was the only evidence for the Qahtani claims. Many Arabs and Arabized berbers in North Africa have a general claim to Himyar from the Islamic period and ancient Berber legends among a minority of the Berbers. --Skatewalk 00:27, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Sultans of Oman

I read they were Adnani Tamimi and some other user claimed they were Azdi Qahtani. Omani is known for the rivaly between the Azd and Adnani's.

• Do you know what they are exactly?
• And what happens after Sultan Qaboos dies? (he has no succesor!)--Skatewalk 02:29, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Lakhmids

I see how Banu Hilal are Hijazi words are close to Yemeni anyways. I am amazed that no one is thinking about the succession in Oman! Another article that has to be fixed is the Lakhmids. I believe during the Lakhmids time is wen the Adnani tribes settled Iraq? Its important. The annextion of Kindah, the switch in allainces. (In the 540s Eastern Yemen tribes sweared alliance for the Hirah instead of Himyar because Western Yemen was under Aksumite occupation until 575AD, this was another reason that facilitated the Persian/Yemeni alliance at that time, which turned into an occupation with the fall of the Hira 602. --Skatewalk 05:32, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Dhurma + Maps

Saba7 al 5eer man :) let's keep the correct name , even if someone typed "dhruma" he will be redirected to "dhurma" automaticly. don't you think is better ?

about maps. i think that a public domain yes , but keep your head away from permission discribtion. upload it on flickr.com , and then make an autherized copy on commons.wikimedia.org , don't forget to release the copyright on flickr.com

if you think thats a long story , upload it here by "the work of someone else, who has given permission to use it on Misplaced Pages " and choose "non-commercial or educational use of this file is permitted" and dicribe the permission on the summery (source , auther , why its educational ....etc ). but we rather upload pics on commons.wikimedia.org to allow other languages wikipedias to use that pics. Ammar ( - ) 01:27, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the tribes articles

Feel free to change the spelling if you think its wrong, most of the time I just use the names used by Non Arabs: Banu Saleem, Mudar, Zafar. I never liked doing that, I will switch the articles to the spelling you use and change the rest for forwards.--Skatewalk 09:05, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

The above was left on your user page, I've moved it here. Q 09:07, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Arab Wiki project

Are you interested ... Sign up then! --Aziz1005 03:27, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

The newest WikiProject

Hi, and welcome to the newly started Arab world WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of topics related to the Arab World.

The project birthday would be celebrated every August 24.

A few features that you might find helpful:

• Our navigation box points to most of the useful pages within the project.
• The announcement and open task box is updated very frequently. You can watchlist it if you're interested; or, you can add it directly to your user page by including {{WPARAB Announcements}} there.
• Most important discussions take place on the project's main discussion page; it is highly recommended that you watchlist it.
• The project has several departments, which handle article quality assessment, detailed article and content review, and other tasks.

Important notice

• We've developed a variety of guidelines for article structure and content, template use, categorization, and other issues that you may find useful. These guidelines can be subject of discussions at the project talkpage or simply WT:ARAB.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask User:FayssalF for the time being, or any experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! FayssalF - 23:16, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Banu Kaab

Salam Slacker, Do you know more about their origins?--Skatewalk 06:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks man, Are the Khafaja related the Khafji town in anyway?

Can you expand the Banu Amir? Marj Banu Amir in Northern Jalil? Some Lebanese who came from Nothern Jalil claim they are from Banu Hilal (Khoraish)?

Was Banu Amir a mixed federation? alot of the names stand out? Did the Adnani/Qahtani tribes of Nejd mix in federations? (before the rise of wars between Anaiza and Shammar?)--Skatewalk 20:26, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Al Yamamah

At least you can Redirect the currect Al-Yamama to the a name Al-Yamamah Region . its not a big deal so dont get yourself into discussion conflicts for poor reasons. we have much more important things than this , right ? Ammar ( - ) 23:15, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Anti Arab hate speech in the Arab article!

Please read!--Skatewalk 03:00, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

al-Yamama

May I ask why you deleted this page ? Thanks. Slacker 17:01, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry man, I forwarded it to Al Yamamah. I just saw the guys rverted the article to the arms deal?!....--Skatewalk 02:31, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Improving the Egyptian article

I added it to the Arab world project, it needs to be fixed so we can clearly mention the non Arab minority in Egypt (the Copts) and the Arabized and Ethnic Arab muslims. The article is a mess now, plenty of Afrocentric and Anti-Arab trolling.--Skatewalk 04:17, 8 September 2007 (UTC)