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Older issues:

Talk:Orca/General archive 1

Talk:Orca/Should the page be at Orca or Killer Whale (resolution: Orca)

Talk:Orca/Is it a dolphin, a whale, both?! (resolution: dolphin)

Talk:Orca/Aug 2004-Apr 2006

Three Distinct Populations

Shouldn't this section be a subsection of Taxonomy and evolution? Or at least be located further down in the article? → _ΣcoPhreek 18:03, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

It should. It was written after the bulk of the article and hasn't got integrated that well yet. Any volunteers? Pcb21 Pete 21:15, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

How's that? Added links to source information reguarding the three races.Let me know if I did it wrong. → _ΣcoPhreek 22:40, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Modified it to North America - it´s not known if the residents/transients/offshores designation occurs worldwide.SammytheSeal 07:21, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

And I made a few trivial edits on top of that. It's certainly better than it was, thank you. I wonder if we can still do more as there is overlap with the range and physical characteristics sections too. Pcb21 Pete 07:38, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I´ve been working on extending details of norwegian orcas and filling the carousel feeding stub - a while from being ready to add tho... one of these days ;)SammytheSeal 07:45, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Taxonomy

The orca evolved to its present form more or less at the same time as Megalodon was fading into extinction..., is this sentence the correct way to word this? It sounds speculative. I wouldn't know how to rewrite it as I'm not sure what part sounds clumsy. →ΣcoPhreek_Δ 14:04, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I've commented it out, as I agree it sounds very dodgy. Perhaps someone could comment further here if they have a source. Pcb21 Pete 14:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Does Man Predate Orcas?

From the penultimate paragraph: With this huge variety of prey, and no predators other than man, the orca is very much at the top of the food chain. I don't believe humans eat Orcas (perhaps we do - anyone out there know?). In which case I suggest that and no other predators than man be removed or changed. --Dumbo1 20:05, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Man does hunt Orca therefor man is a predator of Orca as it states under the hunting subsection. therefor "and no predators other than man" is valid. →ΣcoPhreek_Δ 20:25, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

OK. The reason I ask is because the sentence is about food, prey, predation and predators, yet includes the information that humans are super-predators, as a side-point. I believe these are two points, and could be easily split out to make the two points, better. --Dumbo1 23:07, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I guess I am missing your point here. Man is a predator of Orcas (in the food sense), humans do hunt Orcas for food purposes. Granted the two sentences in the closing blurb probably do not belong (there at the end and together) and should be worked further up into the article. I have no problem with that as long as reference is kept to man being a predator of the species (even if it is a given that man is a predator to most species). →ΣcoPhreek_Δ 00:07, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Dorsal fin collapse

Is it certain that dorsal fin collapse only happens in captivity? I thought it was common in the wild as well. I think I even may have seen an Orca with curly dorsal fin in the wild outside Boston a long time ago. Mlewan 16:28, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

The reason why Orcas like Keiko for instance have a collapsed dorsal fin is because the tank he was being held in was to small. He couldn't grow properly and the water was to warm. Not saying Mexico is bad just saying they didn't take the best care of him the could have.

Transient pod #'s

Here are my sources: Center for Whale Research, The National Ocean Sciences Bowl, Whales BC, and The Canadian Encyclopedia. The last one does state that they can number up to 22 individuals but that up to 7 are the norm ←ΣcoPhreek→ 23:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Parks that Formerly Held Orcas

Is this subsection needed? I can see listing the ones still in captivity, but does the listing of those that died in captivity add anything to the article? ←ΣcoPhreek→ 23:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

No --Yath 00:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Orca picture

I noticed the picture at the beginning of the article is used later as well. Should one of them be replaced, taken out or left alone? Justinmeister 16:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I've replaced the later one and moved its caption to the beginning. Kla'quot 04:37, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Ages of orcas

I deleted this: It should be noted that the technology to track orcas in the wild has only recently been developed. In the past, scientists have used visual identification of the whales and estimated their ages. While this does provide ideas of ages, it is not 100% accurate, which means the ages of most whales are merely estimated. The only whales whose ages are known for certain are those whose births have been recorded and those born in captivity.. This seems to me either very misleading or entirely incorrect. The technology used to track orcas in the wild, photo-identification, has existed for decades and has enabled individual orcas to be tracked from birth. What this means is that each individual member of the Northern and Southern Resident communities off British Columbia is named at birth and that we know exactly what year they were born in. Kla'quot 08:55, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Famous Orcas section

I have some concerns about this section. I think it might be best to delete it, and add a See Also link to Category:Famous orcas. My concerns are:

• Do we have criteria for which animals to include on this list? There are currently 19 individuals in Category:Famous orcas.
• I think the article would read more smoothly if anecdotes about individual orcas were woven throughout the text. Kla'quot 09:15, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and done this. Kla'quot 07:27, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Pliny the Elder

Does someone have a source verifying that such a description (second paragraph) occured? Otherwise it should be deleted. Justinmeister 22:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Orca#Orcas_and_humans. --Iustinus 06:23, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Whoops, sorry I must have missed that. Justinmeister 07:03, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. While that was silly of you, you have brought up a valid point: the full mention of Pliny has become much less prominant as this article has expanded, and now it's easy to miss. Perhaps a "see below" or something might be justified to prevent others from making the same mistake. --Iustinus 07:26, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Is it really neccesary to mention Pliny in the lead section? Would the lead section's value be diminished with its ommision and only mention it at the later point in the article? Justinmeister 16:20, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I've nuked it from the lead. It's not only unnecessary but also Eurocentric and probably inaccurate (nobody feared orcas before the year 23?) Thanks for pointing this out. Kla'quot 04:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

My pleasure. Justinmeister 05:42, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

moving nomenclature

I'd like to move nomenclature to the bottom to reflect its importance. Any objections? --Graham 00:09, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. And/or it would be good to edit it liberally, as there's a lot of trivia in the section. It could also be spun out into a separate article on, for example, Attitudes towards cetaceans. Kla'quot

Famous Orcas

I'm quite sure Shamu DID NOT appear in Free Willy; the appearance was made by Keiko who died in 2003 from pneumonia. Shamu is a famous orca at sea world. People, let's please try harder to keep these articles accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.158.41.214 (talk • contribs)

I don't think the article says that. If it does, please be bold and correct errors. BTW Shamu is a role played by several orcas. Kla'quot 04:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Quick question on images

With so many pictures available of real Orcas why is this picture in the article? It does not lend to the article & IMHO is not a realistic representation of an Orca leaping from the water. Just wondering. Nashville Monkey 04:15, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Good points. I put in that picture to illustrate "Diet" because orcas do often leap when hunting. If you can replace it with a better picture for that section, by all means please do. Kla'quot 04:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

hrm... bit off that one didn"t I... Nashville Monkey 04:37, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, I found a photo and put it in. The photo is of fish-eating orcas, but they look like they're about to gang up on a whale... Kla'quot 10:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Spin out the Captivity section?

The Captivity section is really long, and is missing any description of the pro-captivity point of view. I think it would be good to spin it out into its own article with a summary and link in this article. We could have the article also cover other cetaceans in captivity, e.g. with the title Cetaceans in captivity. What do you think? Kla'quot 06:16, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Land attacks

There doesn't seem to be any mention of land attacks -- possibly a learned behavior that orcas have recently developed (that is, literally coming out of the water onto land or ice floes to attack prey). No one had ever seen orcas do this til the last 2 decades or so. JAF1970 21:34, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

As seen here The Blue Planet JAF1970 15:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Please do not add links to violations of copyrighted materialSammytheSeal 11:24, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

more colors

okay i didn't add any info but i made the info box blue instead of pink because the pink on every single plant and animal info box is so boring. okay you need to make it diffrent colors or evey one is bored!!!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.241.121.216 (talk) 13:23, 22 December 2006 (UTC).

Please don't do this. Pink is for animals, green is for plants. This is the standard from WP:TOL. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:31, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Girl attacked and the poor whale killed

Killer whale bites girl —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Halaqah (talk • contribs) 12:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC).

This is the Apr. 20, 1971 Annette Eckis/Shamu incident. This was the first Shamu and she died on Augest 23, 1971. According to "Orcas Deceased in Captivity" , Shamu died from pyometra and septicemia. Shamu was not killed because of this incident. 204.80.61.10 15:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)Bennett Turk

Link suggestion

The following link was added by an IP user and then removed by me as irrelevant to family (biology):

• Site sur les differents orques et leur mode de reproduction évitant la consanguinité. Template:Fr

I leave it to the authors of the Orca page to decide whether it is worth mention or not. Alexei Kouprianov 11:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Japan orca hunt

I removed this Comment " Japan usually takes a few individuals each year as part of its controversial program of scientific research as specified in IWC constitution"

A quick look through Japanese whaling Statistics here shows no orca hunt SammytheSeal 20:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Distribution

I removed this: " the second-most widely distributed mammal on Earth (after humans excluding: rats, dogs, cats, pigs)". The "excluding" part is a recent addition and an excellent point. Kla'quot 14:04, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Killer Whales attacking people

Apsley Cherry in "The Worst Journey in the World" recounts in the first person killer whales attacking people walking on Antarctic sea ice. Doesn't this count as a confirmed attack on people by wild killer whales? January 8, 1911 he documents it, and it occurs multiple times throughout the book.

Cherry's book is a well respected autobiographical text of an event which many other men witnessed. I am aware of no accounts that contradict his, at least not in the matter of the killer whales attacking humans working on the ice floes. Shall we add a discusion of this? 63.107.91.99 19:24, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

There have been several reported cases of orcas trying to tip over sheets of ice, on which people were standing. Among the individuals who saw them was Sir Robert Falcon Scott, whose 1912 expedition was the subject of the book "The Worst Journey in the World". I doubt if all of these reports can be dismissed as just tall tales. 204.80.61.10 19:10, 31 January 2007 (UTC)Bennett Turk

Well, this happily seems uncontroversial. I'm going to go edit the text of the article to discuss attacks by wild killer whales on people. - 63.107.91.99 16:36, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Proposal to merge articles on cetaceans in captivity

Hello, I've created a proposal to merge several articles and spin out some details frm this article. The proposal is at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Cetaceans#Proposal_to_merge_articles_on_cetaceans_in_captivity. Please add your thoughts there. Kla'quot 11:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Spelling style

There is an inconsistency between American and British English. "Colour" and "behaviour" are used, but "behavior" is also used as the spelling several times. --Gray Porpoise_{Your wish is my command!} 02:37, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Conservation section - suggested citations

There is a note that citations are needed for the statement that whale watching can stress and change orca behaviour. There are a few scientific research papers, but many are PDF. A few possibilities are:

• Behavioural responses of male killer whales to a ‘leapfrogging’ vessel
• Underwater noise of whale-watching boats and potential effects on killer whales (Orcinus orca), based on an acoustic impact model
• Short- and Long-term Effects of Whale Watching on Killer Whales (Orcinus orca) in British Columbia
• A Model Linking Energetic Effects of Whale Watching to Killer Whale (Orcinus Orca) Population Dynamics

Eileen 15:02, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for digging up these great references. I've added the first one as a citation. Kla'quot 07:30, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Orca Species

in this section the various types of orca are explained but it appears someone has had some fun with it and added to the info, for instance some race/specie likes to eat shrimp, shrimp, and shrimps, and an other likes seaweed, but in the next line it doesnt, while latter on one of the species is described as gryyyyyyyyyyyish (what the hell color is that?) i dont know anything about orcas so i thought i would let someone know.128.173.144.136 13:39, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

It was probably vandalism that has since been reverted. Kla'quot 17:27, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Orcas in channel islands

I heard that a small pod of orcas has moved south into the Channel Islands of California, I'm not 100% sure but I think this needs to be included in the range of Orcas. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.27.156.187 (talk) 05:11, 18 February 2007 (UTC).

Capitalize resident/transient?

Would anyone object to us capitalizing the words "resident" and "transient", e.g. "Resident Orca"? It would help signal to the reader that these names are not descriptive. The terms are not usually capitalized, but neither is "Orca". Kla'quot 07:17, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

-Perhaps the best way to emphasize those two terms would be to either italicize or embolden them on their first occurrence. I'm a real stickler for proper capitalization. -- HawkeAnyone 13:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

We do bold them on first occurence, but we still have sentences such as, "Stocks of most species of salmon, a main food source for resident Orcas in the northeast Pacific, have declined dramatically in recent years." If you're only skimming the articleinstead of reading it carefully, you could easily take it to mean, "Orcas which reside in the northeast Pacific" instead of "Orcas of the resident type which happen to live in the northeast Pacific." Resident and transient are like breeds or subspecies, which I think we generally capitalize (for reasons I've forgotten). Kla'quot 05:56, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

PCBs and sickness

I've removed this: "However, no direct evidence of sickness in Orcas has been found. The most likely effect, if any, would be a reduced rate of reproduction or decreased ability to fight off disease (immunodepression)." According to the scientific sources I can find, there are strong reasons to believe that the effects of the toxins are a serious threat to the viability of some Orca stocks, the Southern Residents in particular. I'm going to try to get more details and rewrite this part in a more balanced way. Kla'quot 08:34, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Mercy on marine mammals?

"Some Orcas have been known to direct their prey back to land either because they had eaten enough or because they felt mercy." This isn't cited and seems to be a little ridiculous. Thoughts?Neatski 00:26, 2 May 2007 (UTC)neatski

I see it's been removed, which seems like a good decision to me. Funny how this is another way of saying, "Some Orcas have been observed to harass other animals without eating them, for no apparent reason." Kla'quot 09:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Cleaning up uncited content

I've done some spring cleanng of content that has had a tag for some time:

1. "They may do this to prevent them from competing for scarce resources, and not necessarily to eat them."
2. "There has also been one recorded case of probable Orca cannibalism. A study in the South Pacific in 1975 recorded two male Orcas whose stomachs contained the remains of other Orcas. Of the 30 Orcas captured and examined in this survey, 11 had empty stomachs — an unusually high percentage which indicates the Orcas were forced to cannibalism through a lack of food."
3. "The Orca is the only cetacean species to regularly prey on other cetaceans."
4. "In tests conducted with Orcas in captivity, they recalled testing patterns up to 25 years after they were initially conducted."
5. "Orcas may be the smartest species of dolphin or whale in the world.""

Some of this is intriguing and it would be nice to find refs. 09:34, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Nomenclature Section

This whole paragraph bothers me, mostly the beginning "It is commonly thought":

"It is commonly thought that 18th-century Spanish sailors dubbed these creatures asesina-ballenas, or "whale killer" as Orcas do attack large whales. However, this title was improperly translated into English as "killer whale". The term became so prevalent that Spanish speakers commonly used its retranslation of ballena asesina."

-Misha

216.254.12.114 03:21, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

23% rate of dorsal fin collapse

Can anyone point to the original scientific study which SeaWorld is referring to for its report of a 23% rate of dorsal fin collapse in male Orcas off New Zealand? This is a high number, and extraordinary claims require very solid references. Given the SeaWorld source's incorrect statements about Orca longevity, I doubt it's a suitable source of facts for Misplaced Pages. Kla'quot (talk | contribs) 05:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I have found the actual reference SeaWorld used for their article. This study was conducted by Dr. Ingrid N. Visser and here is the article's information: Visser, Ingrid N. "Prolific body scars and collapsing dorsal fins on killer whales (Orcinus orca) in New Zealand waters." Aquatic Mammals. 24.2, 71-81, 1998. SWF Trainer 13:30, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I found Visser's PhD thesis which says the same thing, and also proposes some additional causes of dorsal fin collapse in the wild which could be added to the section. We should both attribute the fact to a more scholarly source and describe the additional proposed causes (i.e. pollution, poor nutrition, and inbreeding). I'll try to get around to doing this if nobody beats me to it. Cheers, Kla'quot (talk | contribs) 16:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Your welcome! However, I think the cited information should have been re-inserted in a different manner. For instance, the reference should could from Dr. Ingrid Visser (http://www.orcaresearch.org/pdf/bodyscars.pdf) and not SeaWorld. This maybe why you are bias with Dr. Visser's paper, in which you should not be. Dr. Visser is internationally renowned for her research, which is supported by the The Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society. The article in question was not funded nor supported by Anheuser-Busch or its subsidiaries. Therefore, a bias view and a reference to SeaWorld should not be included, especially since SeaWorld only used the article on their website to support their views on dorsal fin collapse.SWF Trainer 12:48, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Missing Link for Kandu V

I don't remember the exact time, but less than half a year ago there was a link with a picture of Kandu V bleeding after hitting Corky II. Does anyone know what happened to this picture and why it was removed from the references section? Was it a fake? (Zapocram 23:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC))

I removed it along with other links as part of a pruning of the External Links section. The picture is here: http://www.thememoryhole.org/whale-death.htm . My reason for removing it was that the picture itself does not have much educational value; I think it is the kind of image which disturbs but does little to inform. It might be appropriate as a link in the Kandu V article. A bigger problem, though, which just occurred to me, is that the site probably does not have the photographer's permission to use the photo. If it is displayed without permission then it is a copyright violation and not allowed on Misplaced Pages.

There are many excellent web pages on the issue of captive Orcas that we could link to. Perhaps it would be good to have a balanced set of links which cover the issue more holistically instead of focusing on a single animal. Suggestions? Kla'quot (talk | contribs) 05:15, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Cite for Carousel feeding

I´ve provided a cite / Ref for carousel feeding as requested but don´t know how to link it to the references - if someone could move it there it would be helpful ..ta SammytheSeal 15:37, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I've formatted it using Template:Cite journal. Thanks for finding it. Cheers, Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 16:06, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Some edits

I would like to make some edits to this page. I want to change the size range and add Robin Baird's book Killer whales of the world to the General References section. User:Joeboy99 (talk | contribs) 6:10 12 August 2007 (UTC)

A couple of things

First off, this article might be useful to you guys at some point: Killing killer whales with toxics... but it's just something I stumbled across.

Secondly, if this article was put up for FAR, it might find itself delisted, just due to the external links being a mess. I know it wouldn't take a lot of doing, so it might be a worthwhile task for one of you. Seegoon 09:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

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