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Sexology and sexuality B‑class Top‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sexology and sexuality, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of human sexuality on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Sexology and sexualityWikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexualityTemplate:WikiProject Sexology and sexualitySexology and sexuality B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

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Duration of sexual intercourse

Vaginal sexual intercourse typically consists of a period of foreplay, followed by intromission and ejaculation, followed by a period of cuddling. According to a Kinsey study, just under half of men reported a time to ejaculation from intromission of five minutes or less. About a fifth claimed that coitus lasted 10 minutes or longer. Others may have taken over one hour. Many have reported that sex feels like heaven to them, so they keep doing it. However, if you insert the penis into the woman's vagina for too long, it may turn absolute pleasure into pain. Most couples cuddle after sex, or masturbate others body parts.

 How long should sex last? A survey conducted by Maxim (July 2004) showed the following: 

• Women:
  • Ten minutes: 6%
  • Thirty minutes: 17%
  • Until I orgasm: 32%
  • As long as possible: 44%

• Men:
  • Five minutes: 1%
  • Ten minutes: 5%
  • Twenty to thirty minutes: 26%
  • Forever: 28%
  • Until she comes: 34%
  • Until she goes: 4%

Many men suffer from premature ejaculation. Since most men, unlike women, cannot have multiple orgasms, intercourse normally ends when the man has ejaculated. Thus the woman might not have time to have an orgasm.

There is a wide range of techniques men can use to overcome premature ejaculation: examples include, slowing down the rate of movement or stopping the stroking for a short pause to let the excitement subside just a bit, adjusting the position of one person or both to make it slightly less stimulating, and adding a lot of lubricant so that the vaginal friction is less intense.

Women tend to warm up slower than men and are often disappointed that before they are fully warmed up their partner has already finished, unless her partner is aware of her needs. "As a rule, women would like to devote as much time to foreplay and the sex act as men would like to devote to foreplay, the sex act, and building a garage."

Kenny P. is asexual

See also

• Human sexual response cycle
• Frequency of sexual intercourse

References

1. Premature ejaculation
2. "Dave Barry's Guide to Marriage And/Or Sex" Pg 26 ISBN-13: 978-0878577255

External links

• Kinsey Study Data
• S. Andrea Miller, E. Sandra Byers. Actual and desired duration of foreplay and intercourse: discordance and misperceptions within heterosexual couples. Journal of Sex Research, August, 2004
• Maxim July 2004

-- (preceding is an archive before it was deleted) 199.125.109.3 03

age

what is the minumum age to have anal sex

That's a legal matter and it depends on the jurisdiction. --Tony Sidaway 11:14, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

In the United States, I believe it's the same as the age of consent. Many other countries also have sodomy laws. -kotra 20:37, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

What is the minimum age to get or deliver a blow job?

Probably the answer is the same as above. In most countries sexual "activities" are regulated the same as the intercourse itself. 83.9.45.216 21:24, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

merged mating

Merged article mating from this version . Both articles are in B class, mating and sexual intercourse are one and the same. Otherwise you will have to move this article to "Sexual intercourse in Humans" and move that article(mating) to "mating in animals other than humans". To do:

• Redirecting the article mating has yet to be done.
• Lead section here has to be trimmed down.
• Little cleanup.

Lara bran 12:51, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

If you want to elaborate human sexual intercourse please do it here: human sexual behavior and Human sexuality. Thanks. Lara bran 13:05, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Im done. Merging is completed. Archived long talk page. Somebody leave a thanks to me right here. Lara bran 04:27, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted your changes. A merge of this size should be discussed first. In my opinion, mating and sexual intercourse are not one and the same. This is a very general overview, but mating is what animals do to produce offspring. Human beings engage often (if not usually) engage in sexual intercourse purely for pleasure, and often take steps to ensure that conception does NOT occur as a result of sexual intercourse. (Yes, I realize that some animals also engage in various forms of sexual stimulation for pleasure.) Joie de Vivre° 15:59, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Please know the difference between a dictionary and encyclopedia. Its headline should match with content. In this state this article should be renamed to "Sexual intercourse in humans" and that article should be renamed to "mating in animals (except humans)", humans also animals. Users did not post here did not mean they opposed it, "older version is consensus" is wrong idea, reverted back, i wont revert only if someone else other than User:Joie de Vivre (who is still learning, see here how this is minor edit?) revert my changes. Lara bran 03:32, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Still learning? Of course, we all are still learning. I have learned that it is important to seek consensus for large moves. If a large move seems reasonable and you WP:BOLDly go ahead with it, if other community members object, it's appropriate to seek consensus through discussion. Reverting and making personally directed comments is not very productive.

In my opinion, you have not demonstrated that sexual intercourse and mating are one and the same, or that the two articles should be merged. Joie de Vivre° 04:03, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Man i seriously dont have time, otherwise i know this community etc. Dont take personally, also i need not demonstrate, dividing article into "humans" and "non-human animals"(that too without mentioning that in heading) is clearly against common sense. There are 2 different articles on humans i quoted above. Seek a third opinion and dont revert yourself Lara bran 04:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I have already done so. I hope you will reconsider your approach, it is not at all conducive to forming consensus. Joie de Vivre° 04:21, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

From your comment there, i see your confusion: term sexual intercourse is not limited to humans, see dictionary. Lara bran 04:30, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I would appreciate it if you would stop framing the discussion in terms of a purported deficit of understanding on my part. I would also appreciate it if you would state in clear, concise terms why Mating should be merged to Sexual intercourse. I have stated why they should not. Joie de Vivre° 04:33, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

OK. if not merged, current article Sexual intercourse should be moved to Sexual intercourse in humans as term "sexual intercourse" is not limited to humans(but Sexual intercourse in humans already has article named Human sexual behavior). Hence they should be merged. Me leaving, please let other users revert the article. Lara bran 04:48, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Since you seem ambivalent about what should happen, and you're not interested to stay and discuss, I am reverting the merge, recreating the Mating article and the previous version of the Sexual intercourse article. Joie de Vivre° 05:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

You are clearly demonstrating how a community should NOT be. Very sad, to see you not wait for at least 3rd user. Misplaced Pages will remain same(stagnant) for next 10years only because of you like users, your community etiquette is not at all right, sorry. very sorry. Lara bran 05:07, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Third opinion

Lara bran was right to make a bold edit, and Joie de Vivre was right, disputing the edit, to revert. The next step in the bold, revert, discuss cycle is to discuss, not to revert back and demand that a different editor revert... As noted though, we're all still learning.

I agree with Lara bran that the titles of articles and their contents should match. There are various ways to make this happen, and now that one has been suggested, and reverted by somebody else, that's our cue to open a large discussion, because this question is fundamental to how our articles about human and animal sexuality are organized. It doesn't really matter in what state the articles are while the talking goes on - the winner of the edit war is the first one not to revert, and to help get the discussion rolling. At this point, Lara's ahead, because Joie just reverted.

There must be good places to advertise what's being discussed - looking to the top of this talk page, Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality suggests itself as a starting point. If we're to decide what to do with the content of Mating and Sexual intercourse, are there other articles we need to be thinking about as well?

My initial thoughts on the topic are that we should have one general article on sexual intercourse that covers all species (pointing to more specific articles for details), and gives an overview of sexual activity in nature, including humans. This would include mating, as well as such natural but non-procreative sexual practices as oral sex, homosexual behavior, and interspecies sex, none of which is limited to humans.

Another general article would cover procreative sex in a species-neutral way (with links to human- and animal-specific articles), and give an overview of the various ways in which sexually reproducing creatures get their gametes to meet.

Those two articles aren't precisely what Sexual intercourse and Mating were, but those could be the titles of them. The aspects of human sexuality that are unrelated to procreation would presumably be accessible from the top-level article about sexual intercourse, while articles about human fertility and pregnancy would be accessible from the top-level article on mating.

How does that sound? -GTBacchus 05:15, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I dont agree with Human sexual intercourse(recreative or otherwise) should be excluded, as that is a subset. (To User:Joie de Vivre, please dont revert 4th time, you will be blocked even if you did in good faith. This way wikipedia forces you to leave reverting to a third party, dont mistake.) Lara bran 05:48, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Did I say human sexual intercourse should be excluded? I believe I did not. I was trying to suggest top-level articles that include humans as well as other species, and then more specific articles getting into details specific to humans, mammals, fish, Lesser Black-backed Gulls, etc.

Oh, and Lara, your reverts are just as wrong as Joie de Vivre's. In fact, you may both consider this an official warning - please stop reverting each other until after extensive dialogue has taken place. I don't like using blocks to stop edit wars, but I'll do it to prevent back-and-forth edits. Mating is on my watchlist now. If either of you reverts again, before putting some serious work into the discussion, you may be blocked, by myself or another admin, to stop you; if the other takes advantage of the situation to revert back, they may be blocked as well, to stop the edit warring.

Discuss thoroughly; then edit, only when you can do so with a clear and present consensus. There is currently no consensus version, only two wrong versions. -GTBacchus 06:12, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I exploited rule 3rr, never mind, i sincerely requested him to leave reverting to third party but he did not. Also i wont revert back if any third user reverts my edits, thank you. I been very nice in etiquette, i dont deserve your warning, as far as i could analyze.

But you did say that sex for recreation should be avoided, i objected that. i donno why that should be excluded, so i cant comment any more. Lara bran 06:38, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Lara, it doesn't matter whose edit you revert, what matters is that you don't revert repeatedly without discussing. The best thing to do is to leave it in the version you don't like while rounding up an active discussion. That shows you're working towards consensus, and it encourages others to refrain from edit warring as well.

I didn't mean to say that "sex for recreation should be excluded." In fact, I believe I explicitly suggested an article that would include non-procreative sex, and a separate article for procreation. I think you may be misreading my meaning. -GTBacchus 06:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I am under no obligation to comply with your demand that I refrain from editing this article. Joie de Vivre° 06:49, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I have no interest in attempting to reason with a fledgling editor who joined one month ago, just long enough to learn enough of the rules to engage in mean-spirited one-upsmanship, or with a heavy-handed administrator who sees my attempts to reinstate a version that, I don't know, has the page title and the article title as the same phrase, perhaps, as petty bickering. You two hash it out. My requests for clarification have been met with insults from Lara and multiple reverts. My time is worth more than this; I'm done here. Joie de Vivre° 06:49, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Joie de Vivre, I did not, will not, and would not accuse you of petty bickering. I do now and always suggest that the best way to handle a content dispute, whether with a tendentious newbie or with Jimbo Wales, is to leave the article in the Wrong Version while exemplifying best practices by rounding up a discussion. I don't make the same edit more than once, because I know it's not a productive way to get things done. Less harm is done by leaving it wrong for a few hours than by setting an example that multiple reverts are okay as long as you're sure you're right. -GTBacchus 06:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

(See my comment bolded above). Now, my version with cleanup by moving some parts specific to humans to article Human sexual behaviour would be proposed consensus. But moving takes time or even rm takes time hence we leave cleanup tag and leave it. Lara bran 07:28, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Proposed consensus sounds great. Now let's not make the edit until it becomes actual consensus, as evidenced by many Wikipedians agreeing with it. That can only happen when more people are involved. -GTBacchus 19:52, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, GTBacchus. What you said about the WV is sound advice. Lara bran, in this diff, you referred to the article as "stabilized". It seems clear that there is an active disagreement. I would appreciate it if we could keep it to the Talk page while we hash it out. Joie de Vivre° 15:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

No discussion on matter is done, only discussion about how a discussion should be done is focused since this post which was reply to my this post , where Joie turned discussion into an unconstructive way. And there is no single post which clearly opposes the merger(sorry, opposed but without reason), only throwing mud is being done by posting my edit's diffs. Lara bran 05:21, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

OK, I dont join complaining legue. Now, kindly substantiate why this merger should not be done(other than that consensus is not reached yet)? Lara bran 05:46, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

To throw in my tuppence into this discussion: mating is not limited to animals, but also occurs in plants and fungi. For obvious reasons (see pollination and mating type) these taxonomic groups cannot engage in the same kind of activity that is commonly described as sexual intercourse in animals. Merging Mating and Sexual intercourse would therefore be inappropriate. I've included the additional info on mating in plants and animals into the "Mating" entry. In its previous version, the article suggested that "mating" is limited only to animals--unfortunately the picture gallery emphasizes this too strongly, and this may have also encouraged the notion that the two articles should be merged. Malljaja 13:54, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

What distinguishes Mating from Sexual reproduction? The word "mating" sounds strange to me when applied to plants. I agree that the merge is inappropriate, but I would expect mating to apply to the behavior of animals (including humans) that leads to reproduction. Sexual intercourse would be more generally about sexual interactions (procreative or not) that animals (including humans) take part in. Sexual reproduction is where I would expect to find general information about plants and animals that reproduce sexually. -GTBacchus 20:00, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I admit it's tricky, and it doesn't help that in biology the term mating has somewhat taken on a life on its own (my trusted OED defines mate solely in the context of animals, and this definition is certainly outdated in the context of biological sciences). However, as you can see from the opening sentence here , mating in the scientific literature is also applied to plants. It is used by researchers (especially geneticists) to describe experimental or natural crosses within or between species. Strictly speaking, mating doesn't equal sexual reproduction, as plants or fungi belonging to different species may be able to mate (i.e., exhibit successful fertilization of the ovule in case of plants, or plasmogamy in case of fungi) and even form seeds or sexual spores, but these may be barren due to genetic or other incompatibilities. So sexual intercourse is always the process of mating, but mating isn't confined to sexual intercourse or sexual reproduction. Simply lumping them together therefore would entail a loss of the complexity surrounding these distinct biological processes. I hope I could sufficiently illuminate and clarify those differences. Malljaja 21:07, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Was plant reproduction terminology already included in the Mating article (I really don't want to go and look at all the diffs, a yes or no answer is fine)? If it wasn't then I suggest a quick redirection at the top of the header would suffice. If it was then I suggest that the information be split off (I am assuming that the merge will - happen) to Plant reproduction (or whatever) and a redirect created. I believe that mating is generally considered to be a term applicable to animals only, and Misplaced Pages is not a scientific forum only. LessHeard vanU 22:33, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Malljaja: "sexual intercourse is always the process of mating, but mating isn't confined to sexual intercourse...". I think even the first part is problematic; consider homosexual intercourse. Still, I would agree that in the common parlance, "mating" is understood as applying to animals. It's worth mentioning in the article that biologists apply the term to plants as well, with a link to plant sexuality. All of these upper-level reproduction articles might need some organization... -GTBacchus 01:36, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I concur. Wiktionary defines sexual intercourse, in part, as "Sexual contact or interaction between two or more people...", and mating (via "mate"), amongst others, "A sexual partner, especially of a breeding animal." Reproductive activity appears to be a part, albeit important, of sexual intercourse whereas mating is specifically sexual reproduction orientated. I would think that Malljaja's comment has it the wrong way round. I would say "mating always involves sexual intercourse, but sexual intercourse is not confined to mating." LessHeard vanU 11:30, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

In my view the discussion about mating and sexual intercourse is focused too much on animals. In response to LessHeard vanU comments, Misplaced Pages is a general encyclopedia that ought to cover a topic comprehensively, and many of its articles have set good precedence for that. If the scope of the Mating entry were limited to mating in animals, then indeed Mating and Sexual intercourse should be merged. The view I'm trying to share here is angled also towards inclusion (in Mating) of other biological kingdoms, ie. plants and fungi, both of which have large entries in Misplaced Pages. Individuals in these groups mate (see eg., Misplaced Pages entry Mating of yeast, yet they do not have sexual intercourse. Hence, if viewed as a hierarchy, sexual intercourse is subordinate to mating, that is, all sexual intercourse (be it reproductive or not) is mating, but not all mating involves sexual intercourse. Malljaja 14:28, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand why non-procreative sexual intercourse is mating. -GTBacchus 15:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

One of us seems to be caught in semantics, and I hope it's not me ;). To cite one example from Misplaced Pages (taken from Swan): "Swans usually mate for life, though "divorce" does sometimes occur, particularly following nesting failure." This sentence sums it up well--it employs a vernacular that dislodges mating from sexual intercourse and indicates that two individuals may mate (embark on a partnership with sexual union implied), but procreation is by no means assured. A further example a little closer to home is given here highlighting the fact that mating does not always correlate with reproductive success. Malljaja 16:42, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... I see what you mean. I don't think I was trying to tie "mating" to reproductive success, more to the attempting. However, one doesn't want to apply purposive language to plants and animals, so I guess we have to apply the word "mating" to every form of copulation. Per the swans example, would "mating" also include pair bonding? -GTBacchus 02:12, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Pair bonding and mating appear to be closely related in the example you gave, so I'd say that mating is part of pair bonding. If one were to replace "mate" with "bond" in the sentence from Swan ""Swans usually bond for life, though "divorce" does sometimes occur, particularly following nesting failure", this would work as well (I'm not suggesting a change here though!), so it seems that both are near synonyms, with bond perhaps signifying a closer association. Malljaja 09:41, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree that an encyclopedia (and especially this one with its resources) should cover a topic comprehensively. My position is that it may be best served by doing so over a number of articles, and that by including all subtleties within one article may be a cause of a loss of focus within that piece. While we are entrusted with adding all available content relating to a topic we can provide we must also consider who we are writing it for. There is nothing wrong in noting that sexual intercourse is also a term used by scientists relating to plant reproduction within the main article, but I would then only supply a link to that specific article. We must understand that the majority of readers would look up "sexual intercourse" will do so as a specifically human activity.

I take your point regarding swans. Perhaps both our statements do not suffice. LessHeard vanU 18:59, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I fully agree. I think this discussion went a little off tangent, and I'm partly to blame for that. The main point I'm trying to make is that in my opinion Mating and Sexual intercourse should remain separate entries, and believe that you're also advocating that. Just to clean up one slight misunderstanding, I didn't mean to say that plants have sexual intercourse--they engage in sexual reproduction, and this is referred to as mating. So plants (and fungi) do not belong in this article here, but need to be included under Mating, which I've done recently. Malljaja 19:43, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

(unindent)It does seem to be the nature of sex (being distracted, that is). Happy editing. LessHeard vanU 20:39, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Merging dropped

We drop merging of mating, as told by Malljaja. But as sexual intercourse is not limited to humans it also includes animals we can expand this article. So borrowing animal part from mating wont be bad idea. Im dropping merging of mating by readding article mating to wikiproject in its talkpage. But this article in its current state is not at all accepable, expansion is must. So i first seek consensus for expansion, that is revert to my version, i beleive nobody should have any issues there for this intermediate arrangement.

As per my understanding "sexual intercourse for reproduction" = "mating". Lara bran 05:08, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

If I understand what Malljaja is saying above, sexual intercourse is one type of mating, distinguished from plant mating, for example. Also, I think that sexual intercourse might count as "mating" whether or not we can say it's done "for reproduction".

I'm finding the terminology somewhat confusing; it would be good to sort it all out before moving or merging any articles. I suppose we're comfortable with some amount of overlap among these articles. -GTBacchus 02:18, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Move proposal mating-->copulation(withdrawn.03

58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)):

• Mating: animals+plants (move to copulation)
• Sexual intercourse: humans+animals
• Human sexual intercourse(by mistake, it should be Human sexual behaviour03:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)): human sexual intercourse + other behaviours

Lara bran 08:13, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I think a little judicious copying and pasting between articles would likely improve all concerned, but leaving them separate is best. Not everyone wanting to read "mating" will want to trudge through all the boring bits about sexual intercourse that doesn't specifically involve reproduction orientated activity.... (what the hell am I typing on about? ;~D) LessHeard vanU 11:36, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

What are all the articles we're talking about here, anyway? I'm counting mating, sexual intercourse, sexual reproduction, copulation... plant sexuality... any others Human sexual behavior? Can we figure out how these topics relate to each other, and then work from there? -GTBacchus 02:18, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Let me sort again and correct mistakes

• Mating: animals+plants (copulation redirects here(fine), leave link to Main:Plant sexuality. Done )
• Sexual intercourse: humans+animals (This is "process/physical job", differs from "mating".)
• Human sexual behaviour: human sexual intercourse + other human behaviours

So only work left for us is to cleanup of Sexual intercourse article. Lara bran 03:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

How does sexual reproduction fit into that? -GTBacchus 04:01, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

"Mating" comes fully under sexual reproduction, "sexual intercourse" and "human sexual behaviour" come under reproduction but recreation part of these 2 articles come outside reproduction's limit. (actually action changed here when Malljaja introduced plants into picture.)Lara bran 04:10, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

lead section

This article needs attention from an expert on the subject. Please add a reason or a talk parameter to this template to explain the issue with the article. When placing this tag, consider associating this request with a WikiProject.

Somebody please expand lead section of the article. Preferably a biology expert. Lara_bran 11:56, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

instinct

except intelligent and social animals instinct to have sex is very important. Even humans who born and brought up in isolation, instinct is the thing. I donno why sentence is removed. And instinct of male is more imp over instinct of female. Do you people need ref to support this? Lara_bran 05:28, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

male instinct is a taboo in humans. Lara_bran 10:10, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I removed this sentence twice (and will remove one more time before 3RR kicks in for me) because (a) it is poorly worded and in incorrect English, and (b) it is not adequately supported or cited. Instinct is "the thing?" Is that a quote from somewhere, or are you doing some original research here? Please rephrase this sentence and add a citation if you plan on adding it again. Regards, Rahzel 07:13, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

If poorly worded, then rephrase it, dont revert. If you need more ref, tell me in advance. Thanks. Lara_bran 07:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

If you need help re-phrasing your statement, I'd be happy to help you. However, I'm no expert on the subject so I'd like to see an academic reference supporting this statement before I help you re-phrase this statement. Regards, Rahzel 17:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Lead section badly demanding expansion. I agree we cant put wrong info for sake of expansion, but some common sense can be inserted without reference. Lara_bran 05:57, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, I agree with most of this, but for a piece of information to become "common sense", it has to, at some point through the course of history, be rooted in some sort of fact. I think that the information you'd like to add to the article still warrants a reference of some kind--I'm sure many people would agree with the sentiment of the original statement, but many may not, also. This would be true of almost any hypothesis regarding the nature of any human feelings (which is by no means yet fully understood). Even if it seems relatively obvious to you, IMO it still warrants a reference of some kind to be included in the article, especially in the lead section. Regards, Rahzel 07:06, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

My addition was not limited to humans, rather its about non-intelligent animals. But source i quoted said "instinct of female is to have children", which is wrong, but i added it for sake of reference. Instinct of male is to have sex with fertile female, and instinct of female is to have sex while it is fertile(mating period). True this demands ref, me will make a comeback, will flood you with references, but not so soon :) Lara_bran 04:37, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Copulation

Should this not redirect here instead of mating? Should a separate article on copulation be created allowing this one to focus on human sexual intercourse only? To be honest I'm not that sure how the two words are used - copulation tends to be more often used for animals though doesn't it?

Definition: to engage in sexual intercourse Richard001 07:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the multitude of sperm cells

From the page: "Millions of sperm are present in each ejaculation, to increase the chances of one fertilizing an egg or ovum."

According to who or what should this be the case, that there is a reason for the multitude of sperm cells?

The present sentence implies that there is a goal to increase chance of fertilization in the intercourse process. If there is it should be specified. This also implies that the goal would have been set at the time of design of the intercourse process. To have this view of a creator is not common for science. A more neutral way of speaking is to say that more sperm increases chances of fertilization. Such a claim would also need to be backed up by studies.

If there is a reason who or what says that the reason for the big amount of sperm cells is to increase chance of fertilization?

An alternative explanation for the multitude of sperm cells is to enable a larger variety in the supply of genes in order to have the selection process after ejaculation instead of at the production stage in the testicle. This view is supported by Hindus and native Americans in the sense that they say that offspring quality is determined at the time of coitus.

No specific view can be chosen without further examination and until that moment all view should be presented instead of just a few without motivation.

Davidjonsson 19:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Ethics

Two things: Firstly, how is it more controversial for someone to have sex with a partner of a different ethnicity than for someone to have sex with a child? I think this wording is used simply as a lead-in for the sentance but may need editing. Secondly, under "Religious Views" it states that it is still under debate as to whether sex during menstruation is safe. There is no such controversy as a cursory glance at medical literature will demonstrate. Whether or not sex is performed at this point in a woman's cycle is a matter of taste, not safety, unless STIs are a concern (which is not the default state). This needs changing to avoid confusion or misinformation. Thanks - Cathal 22:45, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Interesting comments. Regarding your first point--I think that the controversy is not with regards to whether or not having sex with a member of another race/caste/social class is controversial, but with regards to whether or not that viewpoint in and of itself is a controversy. As in, we can all agree that it's not controversial if I say "Adults shouldn't have sex with children." But it is controversial if I say "Asian people shouldn't have sex with African people." Perhaps the sentence does need re-wording to reflect that, though. I will change this sentence slightly, let me know if this point has been made clearer.

Regarding your second point, I completely agree--it's totally safe to have sex during a woman's menstrual cycle. I'm removing this statement. Thanks, Rahzel 02:17, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Why can't this article be improved

Many readers feel that this article is EXTREMELY Gender Bias and is from a radical male Christian fundamentalist, right-winged point of view. We try to imporve this article but whenever any one does we are attacked and have threats made agaist us that we will be blocked from editing... There are MANY scientific views that this article does not encompass and this article's neutrality is non-existant. Reading Misplaced Pages's welcome page just now it suggests that readers should have courage and be bold in their editing but when we try to edit/improve this page we get attacked and the article is reverted to its opinionated and non-neutral original position. this is unfair to all! We cannot even put a tag on the article wito ut being attacked and then of course the article is reverted back to its original and VERY BADLY written form! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.42.67 (talk) 22:13, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

A few comments. One, I just removed a few questionable points concerning women's ability to orgasm during intercourse. Hopefully that section is a bit better now. Two, tagging an article as biased in any way should usually be accompanied by a discussion on the talk page, especially for an article as highly viewed as this one. I recently removed such a tag for that reason, even though I happen to agree with some of your poits. Three, I am not sure to what scientific views you are referring, but if there are scholarly articles that are written that could be used as sources in this article, by all means add it to the article. I doubt that the WP readership will object to that, I know I won't.  :) Thanks, Rahzel 23:26, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Aparantly Rahzel is personally in charge of this article... This article should be tagged for "Neutrality" as it is not neutral (I would actually challenge some of the factual accuracy to!); it should also be tagged as "Gender Bias" because it is! This article is degrading to women, homosexuals and non-human primates who engage in sex for pleasure as well as dolphins and other animals that scientists have developed certain theories on. Tagging the article would let readers know that certain people feel that this article needs improvement and that would open up the opportunity and resonsibility to make a less offensive and a more neutral article on WP as opposed to this rather insulting one! This article is clearly written by a Male-chauvinist Christian Fundamentalist who has never taken a science class from an accredited institution in his life! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.42.67 (talk) 00:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I dislike male chauvinist Christian Fundamentalists probably as much as you do. I'm decidedly in the liberal camp on most social issues. You are welcome to contribute to the article, and if you feel that adding the neutrality and gender biased tags is your contribution, then that's great. However, you've got to give a better reason for saying that the article is biased than simply saying, "because it is!" Which part, specifically, of the article, is biased? Why is it biased? How would you recommend changing it? I'm not asking these questions rhetorically, either, I'd be happy to see the article undergo some re-thinking. All I'm saying is that unsubstantiated changes will most likely be reverted by me, or someone else who has this article on their watch list. Regards, Rahzel 05:45, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Adding of insects and bug parts in article, including many unnecessary pictures.

Why would the animal section come before the human section in the article? And the picture of two ladybeetles mating as the article's main picture? Replacing the perfectly fine picture by Leonardo da Vinci, that is certainly the most illustrative, as we're mainly thinking of humans copulating in an article of sexual intercourse, not animals mating. That's just illogical. And all those pictures of insects mating are unnecessary. This should be removed from the article, or at least merged into an animal copulation article. Wikiburger 18:43, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm tempted to agree with all of your points. the Leonardo da Vinci would make a fine lead picture. I agree that most people would come to this article wanting information about human sexual intercourse, but just to be neutral and all, I don't think we should ignore other species' forms of sexual intercourse altogether. Perhaps a re-ordering of the sections would in fact be appropriate, as well as a significant de-emphasis of all the insect/bug mating stuff too. Good points, Rahzel 23:35, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

The current situation is due to one editor, User:Lara bran. The consensus had been to deal with only human behavior in this article and confine animal sex to the other article, Mating. The way, the truth, and the light 00:44, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good. I think I removed most of the animal stuff in my most recent edit, and made the lead image the Da Vinci pic. Let me know what you think, Rahzel 03:06, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

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