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Revision as of 23:54, 18 October 2007 editZayZayEM (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers12,949 edits →Eugenics in Showa Japan← Previous edit Revision as of 18:58, 19 October 2007 edit undoAzukimonaka (talk | contribs)2,301 edits →James Cook UniversityNext edit →
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==James Cook University== ==James Cook University==
Hey there, I noticed you flagged ] as needing a clean-up. I'm currently working on it and as you've gone through it already, I was hoping you could tell me what areas still need work. Thanks! ] 11:58, 17 October 2007 (UTC) Hey there, I noticed you flagged ] as needing a clean-up. I'm currently working on it and as you've gone through it already, I was hoping you could tell me what areas still need work. Thanks! ] 11:58, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

== eugenics in Showa Japan ==

{{{icon|] }}}Please do not delete content from pages on Misplaced Pages{{{{{subst|}}}#if:Eugenics in Showa Japan|, as you did to ]}}. Your edits do not appear to be constructive and have been ]. If you would like to experiment, please use ] for test edits. {{{{{subst|}}}#if:{{{2|}}}|{{{2}}}|Thank you.}}<!-- Template:uw-delete2 -->

Please desist.

Flying Tiger has used sources. Please do not use wikipedia as a battleground for Japanese historical revisionism. It is not appropriate.

Your editing behaviour regarding this page is not constructive.

You have shown repeatedly an inability to understand the edits of others, as well as to convey your own meaning clearly.

Please also view other wikipeida policies and behaviours on ]. Such as:

*]
*]
*]
*]
*] ("The threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, '''not truth'''.")
*] (5 revert war)
*]

This is my last extension of good faith towards your edits on this article. I am directing members of WikiProject Japan towards the page and hopefully they will provide useful advice and insight.

] 04:15, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

===Latest edits===
I'm going to address your most recent edits in detail so you amy understand better the concerns regarding your editing style.

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Eugenics_in_Showa_Japan&diff=165427965&oldid=165371493

You changed {{quotation|] in Shōwa Japan refers to politics in the first part of the ] which promoted increasing the number of healthy Japanese, while simultaneously decreasing the number of people suffering mental retardation , disability, genetic disease and other conditions that led to them being viewed as "inferior" contributions to the Japanese gene pool.}} into
{{quotation|] in Shōwa Japan refers to politics in the first part of the ]. To decrease an increase in the gene disease, and to increase the number of healthy Japanese, Japanese Government introduced arbitrary sterilization.}}.

Problems:
*"Eugenics in Shōwa Japan refers to politics in the first part of the Showa era" is wrong. This reads to say that '''all''' politics in the first part of the Showa Japan were eugenically motivated. We need to specify what politics, or at least disclaim with "some". The original does this by saying politics "which promoted increasing the number of healthy Japanese, while simultaneously decreasing the number of people ... being viewed as "inferior". This sort of change in grammar to the lead which destroys comprehension does not favour other editors to accepting your edits as non-disruptive, especially afterrepetitive warnings.
*"gene disease" is not an English term ] and ] are used.
*However these terms are rather non-specific. This was in the early 20th century (and even late 19th) when not a lot was known about these things. It was not specifically genetic disorders that were targeted (indeed some non-genetic diseases such as ] were also targetted), it was disorders, that were thought to be of a genetic nature, that included retardation, physical disability, combinations (such as ]), as well as psychological issues (criminal behaviour, psychosis - which may or may not have genetic factors). The main combining feature was not that these were genetic disorders, but that they were making inferior contributions to the gene pool from the view of eugenicists.

*a Final point is that article is about "politics", not laws. While the laws may say one thing, the political movement at the time may have extra things (or less things) on their minds. From an article on politics, articles on the actual laws may be added. This is why the point about the eugenicist view on contraceptives I feel is important, while no laws were made, it is a facet of the political movement's idealogy, and indeed illustrates a change in the idealogy motivated by various factors.

You also removed an entire section titled "After the war", this is well referenced an important facet of the issue. It is well known, published and verified, that Japanese politicians were involved in the promotion of using geisha houses and other water-trade facilities to pacify (some might also suggest corrupt) American occupiers.

This is your final warning against your disruptive and tendacious editing. Please consider your actions carefully.--] 00:17, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

:It is troublesome to explain the mistake one by one. I will explain to you by using Timeline. --] 18:58, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:58, 19 October 2007

Hello ZayZayEM and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Hope you like it here, and stick around.

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For vigilant scrutiny of video game lists such as List of MMORPGs, keep up the good work! Marasmusine 17:59, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


Influenza pandemic

Hi there, I notice you are doing some editing of the pandemic page. I did quite a lot of work previously on the Influenza article to bring this up to FA, so if you need any advice, access to sources or production of figures then please don't hesitate to get in touch. All the best Tim Vickers 16:49, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

And good luck. I will pray or appease various dieties, if you think it will help. Or, more useful, hit me with your best shot before you post, and I will do as much editing as I can. KP Botany 20:01, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh, Tim Vickers is an excellent and careful editor, do take him up on the offer. KP Botany 20:02, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

WAS Influenza pandemic links

Official - international
Official - United States
  • PandemicFlu.Gov U.S. Government's avian flu information site
  • USAID U.S. Agency for International Development - Avian Influenza Response
  • CDC Centers for Disease Control - responsible agency for avian influenza in humans in US - Facts About Avian Influenza (Bird Flu) and Avian Influenza A (H5N1) Virus
  • USGS - NWHC National Wildlife Health Center - responsible agency for avian influenza in animals in US
  • HHS U.S. Department of Health & Human Services - Pandemic Influenza Plan
Official - United Kingdom
Technical
General information

WAS 4.250 17:06, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


  • I'm kind of hoping not to actually add to the article (I'm doing an honours thesis), just fact check what is there and word it better. --ZayZayEM 01:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


Trying to get along

I would like to apologize for any hurt feelings I may have caused by my use of the word "ignorant". I only mean that you lack the knowledge that is contained in the references used to support the claims in the articles and I find myself very frustrated in attempts to answer your questions about those articles that you don't seem to be able to find the time to read those sources. WAS 4.250 12:48, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

But you haven't addressed any particular questions I've had. You've parroted long strings of information from reference, which I have skimmed quite a few of, without addressing the actual questions. This shows a very shallow understanding of the topic, and to me, this is reflected in your editing tone.--ZayZayEM 02:03, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
I intend to solve that by letting you research the answers to your questions instead of trying to answer them myself. This will save you the aggravation of wasting your time asking questions that are inadequately answered and save myself the frustration of trying to help you and finding that I'm just wasting my time as well. The superior insights you get from that research will surely be reflected in an improved Misplaced Pages, so we all win in the end. Good luck to you. One article with good data but poor writing is H5N1 genetic structure. I'll bet you could improve it and learn a lot at the same time. Go for it! WAS 4.250 18:26, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

What no one knows about H5N1

Dr. David Nabarro, chief avian flu coordinator for the United Nations, says avian flu has too many unanswered questions:

  • No one knows how many could die.
  • No one knows how far it has spread. In Africa "surveillance is so poor that deaths of chickens or humans could easily go undiagnosed for weeks."
  • No one knows much about future pandemic mutations, except they are increasingly likely due to millions more birds in many more countries leading "to an exponential increase of the load of virus in the world Each infected bird and person is actually awash in minutely different strains, and it takes lengthy genetic testing to sequence each one - so if a pandemic strain were to appear it might be quite difficult for us to pick up that change when it happens."
  • No one knows why "the disease, after years of smoldering in poultry, suddenly start hitchhiking in migratory birds."
  • No one knows why "the northern China strain - the one now spreading westward - cause so many false negatives in diagnostic tests".
  • No one knows why so many people fell sick so quickly in Turkey.
  • No one knows the significance of H5N1 spread by mammals such as cats.
  • No one knows enough about what virus strains are in which bird species to make useful predictions.
  • No one knows enough about bird migration patterns to make useful predictions. Bird species' migration strategies can vary according to age, sex, weather and season, among other things.
  • No one knows how lethal the next influenza pandemic will be.
  • No one knows when it will occur.
  • No one knows if any of the prepandemic vaccines now being tested will have been of any use when the pandemic happens.
  • No one knows if any of the nonvaccine drugs will be of any use against the pandemic virus when it comes.
  • No one knows if H5N1 will ever go away.<ref> </ref><ref name=IISD> ''SCIENTIFIC SEMINAR ON AVIAN INFLUENZA, THE ENVIRONMENT AND MIGRATORY BIRDS ON 10-11 APRIL 2006'' published 14 April 2006. </ref> Copied from where I added it at Reporting disease cases. WAS 4.250 17:03, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
  • One man's (albeit informed) opinion WP:UNDUE
  • Speculative WP:CRYSTAL
  • No content. "No one knows" really isn't information. It's information about lack of information.
    • Please stop spamming my user talk page. Post a link. Don't summarize it for me. I've already let you know I don't think your summaries are all that helpful.--ZayZayEM 00:33, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

PCR hell

You poor thing. It's a pain in the ass when it doesn't work isn't it. Are you trying to clone something and add restriction sites, or just detect if a sequence is there? As to "failing", we have no time limit in Misplaced Pages, so if you want to work on and off to improve an article over many years, your contributions are still valuable. Tim Vickers 14:03, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


Flu articles

Thank you for helping with the flu articles. We got off on the wrong foot somehow. I'm trying to edit wikipedia less, and another set of eyes on those articles is helpful. Also, a second mind making sure the content is understandable is helpful. I moved the "unanswered questions" data to avian flu where it is a better fit. The long quote about surveillance needs for avian flu is very interesting to me, but needs too much background material for me to add it in any form at avian flu, which is designed as an introductory article. Since most of the avian flu sources are high quality and related to your field of study, I hope you find them both interesting and career enhancing. WAS 4.250 13:38, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


The #What_no_one_knows_about_H5N1 points just aren't encyclopedic. I do accept Nabarro as an acceptable authority figure, but you really have to provide context as to what these bullet points. It is just simple miscelleneous information that can way to easily be taken the wrong way when presented in this manner.
Firstly, Nabarro labels himself as a scare mongerer, not a bad one, but someone who is promoting his personal (albeit informed) opinions of fear (look at URL too "/worrier.php")

Nabarro ... admits that he has been accused before of being an alarmist

Secondly on looking at the source there is very little resembling a bullet point list of "no-one knows X", in fact Ctrl+F "no one" has this one quote, it's about AIDS:

The skepticism reminds him of his stint in East Africa in the 1980s. No one realized then how widespread the AIDS virus was, and it was unclear then whether it was transmitted by sex.

Oh, I saw "Nobody" here:

how many does Nabarro now say could die? "I don't know," he said. "Nobody knows."

This is a news article. It's not a WHO press release. It's not a Lancet journal. It's an almost tabloid piece designed to play into the hearts of an easily scared public who don't know better.
It's not notable that there are so many unanswered questions, these are questions that could be claimed to unanswered about any outbreak, epidemic or pandemic of a high-mortality disease such as SARS, Plague, Ebola, Smallpox etc. For the informed this sort of "news" really isn't news at all, and it's certainly not of any real encyclopedic value.
I might also finally point out that article ends with Nabarro pointing out his purpose, raising money to fight flu. I'm not really into this, but it just might be conceivable that playing up avian influenza alarm bells might suit his agenda. (I think I'm rather hoping he's just a scared little man being quoted out of context).--ZayZayEM 00:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm glad we are finally "talking turkey". But I have a limited desire to engage with you for a variety of reasons, so please don't take this as an offer to debate. On the other hand, do take it as an opportunity for a nice conversation.
I disagree with your opinion that What_no_one_knows_about_H5N1 is not encyclopedic. It is in fact what motivates billions of dollars of research funds, some of which could wind up in your pocket if you pay attention. You say "you really have to provide context as to what these bullet points " and I agree totally, but I am very poor at putting myself in the shoes of people like yourself who lack the data, so I need your help to know what to say. ::#Nabarro is not a scare monger. He is perceived as such by some, and his job is to motivate and inform so as to generate activity that is needed.
  1. You say "there is very little resembling a bullet point list" yet the source supports the claim. I quote and I'm told to paraphrase; I paraphrase and I'm told what you just said. Please.
  2. You say "This is a news article. It's not a WHO press release. It's not a Lancet journal. It's an almost tabloid piece designed to play into the hearts of an easily scared public who don't know better." Actually, it is part of a deliberate concerted effort by the world-wide community of flu experts to try to prevent a billion human deaths from a flu pandemic by drawing attention to research efforts that need funding.
  3. The influenza A virus is mutating and spreading in ways never before seen and infecting species never before infected by it and is killing in increasing mortality in mammal species while still remaining viable in avian species so that the idea of decreasing mortality is not needed as the reservoir can remain in birds and need not decrease in mortality just cause it wipes out one or more mammal species ... am I communicating??? The experts are universally in a state of deep concern.
  4. You say that "It's not notable that there are so many unanswered questions, these are questions that could be claimed to unanswered about any outbreak, epidemic or pandemic of a high-mortality disease such as SARS, Plague, Ebola, Smallpox etc. For the informed this sort of "news" really isn't news at all, and it's certainly not of any real encyclopedic value." but that ignores the opinion of the experts that H5N1 has the ability to kill a billion people in the next 12 months and none of the other diseases you named have that possibility. WAS 4.250 06:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay. I've numbered your points to make it easier to look at.

  1. Nabarro is someone who has self confessed to being a scaremonger. I even quoted him. He is very wary about people (notably news sources) taking him out of context, while still trying to maintain a sense of seriousness. I feel the way you are using his comments is probably the very form of out-of-context use his is wary of.
  2. Paraphrasing is not the same as summarizing. You need to keep a flow of text, and not include too much unnecessary information. I think earlier I had attempted to summarise the Nabarro points into one sentance, which did not seem to meet your standards. But really thats all that is warranted from this one news article "Nabbarro has expressed concerns". Bullet points, in the manner you are using them, are not encyclopedic - it looks like someone's (dodgy) powerpoint slide. Some pages that might help are WP:MOS WP:BETTER and WP:SS, but I will look for one that specifically deals with how to write encyclopedic prose (I'm surprised I couldn't find one easily just now).
  3. I stand by my claims here. I see no concerted effort by a world-wide community of experts beyond what would be expected. This is part of a media effort, not a science one.
  4. I think this is continuing on from the last point. It just disintegrates into alarmism. I'm sorry for this caricaturisation, but as someone who does have training in public health and sociological reception of science I'm not going to accept this extra stuff as an argument.
  5. Again standing by my claims here. Other diseases do have similar capacity for disaster, maybe not in the next twelve months, and maybe not perceived. Misplaced Pages is not journalism, so time frame is irrelevent, and wikipedia is not a warning system.

You provide some context in your commentary here " are in fact what motivates billions of dollars of research funds". If this is so, then please find a citation for this. This would provide context that would augment a one or two sentance statement regarding Naborro's comments on a page like Influenza research. Hope this is of some help.

I would advise also reading through WP:SOAP. Misplaced Pages is not a forum for raising alarm over H5N1. It is useful and encyclopedic to write about other people raising alarm, as long as it is done in a neutral, albeit non-partisan manner.

Finally I would appreciate it if you stop characterising myself as someone who lacks data or expertise. This is not true and it just makes you sound arrogant. It also forces me to call on my credentials, something I am loathe to do.--ZayZayEM 07:03, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

In response to "I stand by my claims here" please read In response to "If this is so, then please find a citation for this." please read

Is Business Ready for a Flu Pandemic? (Also see ). WAS 4.250 10:46, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

"Everything you say in advance of a pandemic is alarmist; anything you do after it starts is inadequate."

— US HHS Secretary Michael O. Leavitt, Virginia Pandemic Influenza Summit
This refutes your contention that it is media driven. WAS 4.250 10:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Over 80 countries and 8 international organizations agreed to raise political attention on avian flu. This is not media driven. WAS 4.250 11:01, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


No, sorry. If you refuse to actually formulate a discussion. And instead insist on posting a bunch of links for me to read (you can use links, just let me know what I am supposed to be doing with them, or what you think of them) then I can't respond appropriately. I am reading these links, I just don't know what you want me to do with it. If you can't communicate with other editors (see your comments above), that's going to be a real issue with you working on Misplaced Pages--ZayZayEM 11:13, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


My deleting these comments before was wrong. However it is important that you are not giving me much context to interpret these links. I read them, gain information, and interpret them, but obviously in a very different way to you. I suppose the one thing that comes into my mind, is that if you need all these other links to make sense of the original text you added to the encyclopdia, it would make sense to combine all this information into a single well referenced paragraph (as long as it doesn't make contentious conclusions - WP:SYNTH)--ZayZayEM 23:36, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


Aside

  • In other news I had my hands on an Avian Influenza special issue of the Journal of Wildlife Diseases yesterday. Hopefully I'll be able to borrow it in November after I'm done with my theses. Lots of stuff on Disease surveillence, assessment, evolution, virology etc. on a global scale. Oh, even better, I'm getting complete access through the university computers so I won't even have to track down that hard copy again This one looks good--ZayZayEM 00:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


Fooly Cooly Ecchi Time

FLCL=Ecchi every anime site and reviewers(even the creater and U.S.Distributor likely caled it an ecchi! It was once placed as one! THE SCECES IN THE OVA EVEN SCREAM ECCHI! Sr? Whats the problem? With all due respect I belive you have clue what Fooly Cooly is do you? --Lolicon-r.us 14:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

FlCl is not Ecchi. I have seen the complete series and own a bootleg. The English usage of "Ecchi" is synomous with Hentai and may not reflect the Japanese usage. This is an English language wikipedia, it should reflect English usage of terms, not Japanese ones.--ZayZayEM 23:02, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Not an Ecchi? Bulls***!
  • In English, the word is often used in the context of manga and anime. The term ecchi is applied to anime or manga that has vague sexual content (such as skimpy clothing, partial or full nudity), but does not show sexual intercourse.

The ecchi art style is loosely comparable to pin-up girl artwork, as well as to provocative fantasy and comic book art in the United States and other countries. Typical features include:

  • Clothing that outlines the shape of the breasts, nipples, and labia, suggesting tightness of clothing and arousal.(Like FLCL...I cant remember)
  • Uniforms, costumes, or outfits that may be provocative, but are worn as everyday clothing by the character.
  • Characters who are unaware of their sexuality, appear innocent or cheerful, or sly and mischievous.(Like FLCL)
  • Clothing that is falling off or being pulled off, notably swimsuits and "sailor"-style schoolgirl uniforms.(Like FLCL)
  • Upskirt panty shots and cleavage.(Like FLCL...right?)
  • Suggestive or phallic imagery, such as Japanese mayonnaise bottles.(Like FLCL...I think)
  • Exaggerated sexual attributes, often on normal or petite figures to give a sense of contrast. **Especially used in dōjinshi and fanart, where a character may appear more sexualized than normal.(Like FLCL)
  • Cute or innocent character with obvious sexual appearance or clothing.(Like FLCL)
  • The occasional bare breast(s) , but no nudity below the navel or vaginal slit is included on female model.
  • Skimpy bathing suits with crotch lines showing and sides of breasts showing.

Now what your saying is that the ecchi list is B.S. so why not take down that? Can you offer ANY GOOD REASON To not call it an ecchi? No opinions just Wiki Rules and Proff to say it) --Lolicon-r.us 14:28, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

    • Please see my comments at Talk:Ecchi. I was merely following suit with another editor I agreed with. Are you discussing this with that editor as well. I would recommend you direct them to Talk:Ecchi as well. If this is the correct usage of Ecchi in English I will accept FlCl as an ecchi anime - however, this is not what I consider ecchi to be.--ZayZayEM 00:55, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

O_O

Nonononono I should applogise for the disruption I caused and time I wased for you! Please forgive my "Lolicon Ways" ZayZayEM-kun! As for the lolicon thing Lolicon is the sexualizationh of underaged anime characters! Real kids in the USA are ugly(compaired to Anime)! The Lolicon Characters are SO cute(w/ those big eyes, sweet look and those Super Happy Fun Time way of theres! Thats whats my name is for....oh and I am the Spokesman, Head of User Safety and Scurity, and Chief Legal Officer for www.lolicon-r.us.com as of 9/13/07 in an agreement w/ the owner and admin. of the site! =^_^= HAPPYEST DAY OF MY LIFE!!!*Oops* Anyway I look forward to working long side with you!--Lolicon-r.us 12:34, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

ID

I have no particularly strong desire to leave theory in the lead, but it seems to fit both its common description and the more scientific usage of the term (generally a system of thinking supported by a hypothesis and evidence). Testibility might be a bit hazy here, but it is to an extent with all subjects of this type...so yes, Popper would strike it down in a heartbeat, but then he would evolution too. I personally think ID is pretty far fetched (or perhaps, not even wrong...), but I'm curious if I missed something as to what the common use of theory in WP articles is or if there is a reason why claim fits better; as I'm only just looking at the article for the first time and not all too familiar with ID I reserve the right to sound completely stupid if I missed something obvious! Allgoodnamesalreadytaken 02:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you peruse the Talk page on Intelligent design. And then raise any concerns you have. Using "theory" in any relationship with ID, except "ID is not a scinetific theory" has been decided a very big no-no by consensus. You will be opening a big can of worms. And not the usual fishing kind.--ZayZayEM 02:33, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I'll read through it...while I agree with "ID is not a scinetific theory" I'm not sure about not calling it a theory, it seems reasonable that it can justs be called a theory with little justification/evidence. Perhaps its because I'm starting with the assumption that the word "claim" in the intro describes an a priori belief that the theory is wrong (which it likely is, but we can't start out by assuming it is). I will dutifully look at the discussion log though. Allgoodnamesalreadytaken 02:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
follow up Perhaps hypothesis would be better, or assertion...Allgoodnamesalreadytaken 02:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Hypothesis is still too scientific. A hypothesis requires some sort of experimental prediction, if X is is so, we should see Z. ID fails at this. Amazingly. Assertion is a weaker version of claim in my books, claim is very neutral, assertion IMO requires perserverence on behalf of the asserter. Misplaced Pages can start of making "judgements" on things, because it isn't an impartial juror, it's a tertiary resource, therefore it reports from various reliable sources. these reliable sources say ID is not a theory and not a hypothesis, and not science, it's a pseudoscientific claim that is a stalking horse for creationism (or by some sources, simply, is creationism).--ZayZayEM 18:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Do not violate WP:NPA

I am insulted and shaken by your conduct at Talk: Emo (slang). You accuse me of being a crank because I am asking for a reliable source before you rename an article in an effort to introduce particular unsourced analytical claims. Citing unaccepted theories in sociology in conference abstracts, unpublished papers, and nonexistant books is exactly what a crank might do. Am I calling you a crank? No. But I'm doing the opposite of what a crank would. Do not continue to fling accusations at me. I've made my case very clearly, based on policy. The RfC drew multiple third-parties, most of whom agreed that the sources are unreliable and that the argument I've presented is sensible - consensus may not be on my side, but it's not on yours either. Do you have some interesting, if unreliable, sources? Perhaps. Is your analysis sound? Not necessarily. Is it obvious? Maybe according to you. Do we generally make conclusions based on whether or not other things also exist? No - Misplaced Pages is not a source for itself. Don't accuse me of being a crank again - it's rude, agumentative, and a personal attack as far as I see it. And it's inapplicable. Discuss the content, not the editor, please. I've made my case, others have made similar points, and with outstanding objections that haven't been addressed, you cannot make such bold edits. Until we resolve this matter to consensus, such drastic changes cannot be introduced into the article. --Cheeser1 04:14, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

No personal attack intended. I specifically phrased it to not attack. It is a warning of what your behaviour is sounding like. I did not call you a crank. I said this is sounding increasingly crank-like, and even provided a link to where I was coming from. It is perfectly legitimate to say this and does not constitute a PA.--ZayZayEM 04:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Well you're sounding increasingly hostile. Turnabout is fair play, and even if it's not a personal attack, it's certainly not your place to start discussing how much of a crank I may or may not resemble. Argue facts, not personalities. I honestly consider Lundse to be an armchair-sociologist wannabe. Do I use that to discredit him? No. I point to WP:RS instead. If you can find a policy that says "asking people to cite reliable sources makes you a crank" then feel free to point me in that direction. And don't toss pseudo-insults in your edit summaries either - I will notice. --Cheeser1 04:29, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Don't create a battle. I was casually referring to a website I read recently. --ZayZayEM 02:25, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
No, you were calling me a crank for absolutely no sensible reason. DISCUSS FACTS NOT PERSONALITIES. How much clearer could it be? Accusing me nonsensically of being a crank, or of seeming like a crank, or of resembling a crank, or of being like a crank, or anything like that is complete nonsense (I'm the one arguing for properly sourced material) and has no bearing on the conversation. --Cheeser1 06:29, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Please do not create a battle.--ZayZayEM 06:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Maybe you're confused, but telling you to follow etiquette guidelines and to keep conversation on-topic is not creating a battle. No matter how many times you tell me not to "create a battle," you're the one who stooped to calling me a crank instead of discussing the content at hand. If you're not going to engage in a good-faith discussion about your actions in this matter, then this will be my last comment on the matter. --Cheeser1 06:43, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Please do not create a battle.--ZayZayEM 06:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I might also point that you are still citing several guidelines and policies out of context. Talk:Emo (slang) already covers why SelfPub is not relevant in this case. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is in regards to arguments for article deletion, and is more on existence of content, not on something such as using standard naming conventions. And Synthesis in presenting arguments on a talk page is sound, as long asno synthesis is used in the actual article content. One can just as rightly claim synthesis in your arguments against using Emo subculture as an acceptable term.- Consensus is being gathered (I will directly point to the last WP:RM as having more votes for moving than leaving stationary, and the move camp has bolstered its numbers and strengthened its arguments. -ZayZayEM 04:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
You think the exception to SPS applies. I do not. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is an example of the fact that WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A SOURCE FOR ITSELF. If "emo subculture" is a term that people sometimes use then we put a redirect there (oh wait, there already is one). You cannot honestly expect me to believe that you want to only change the title without ever providing any evidence that the term subculture applies. That's utter nonsense. Also, a move is not a vote. Don't tell me a 6-4 margin is honestly consensus. Consensus is when everybody agrees. If I disagree (not to mention the 3-4 respondents to the RfC who also object), you do not have consensus. Especially when I'm citing policy and you're citing unpublished manuscripts and "the obvious." --Cheeser1 04:29, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages is not being used as a source for itself. I will note the current references at Emo (slang) explicitly violate this rule.--ZayZayEM 05:17, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
The current sources we have now are not in question at the moment. You said "emo is mentioned at subculture" - this is irrelevant, and you are trying to use content in Misplaced Pages to justify other content you want to add to Misplaced Pages. Don't dance around the issue. --Cheeser1 15:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
I have said no such thing in recent times. Please do not confuse editors with one another. The current sources are in serious doubt at the moment, especially ones that use wikipedia as a reference, please see my summary on the talk page. Most are non-notable self published works by non-experts, others suffer from POV bias, lack of content, and unreliability.--ZayZayEM 00:46, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
You're talking about the current sources though. Their (un)reliability has no bearing on whether or not completely unrelated sources are reliable. Slightly less unreliable (but still unreliable) sources don't meet WP:RS, and when trying to make analytical or academic claims, one must be far more weary of basing things on "common knowledge" or unreliable sources. --Cheeser1 01:39, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Disagree. Slightly less unreliable is better than blatantly unreliable. Misplaced Pages is a work in progress, and I see impeding improvement because it is not perfect as disruptive. Gradual improvement is how articles become featured, they do not become featured overnight. --ZayZayEM 02:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
You can tell me that my impression of WP:RS is disagreed with by multiple editors, but so is yours. Remember WP:CONS? It's that thing where you're not allowed to just tell me "you disagree, you're getting in the way of progress, we shall outnumber and ignore you." That's not how Misplaced Pages works. I'm done discussing this here - we've already been through this on the talk page of the article at hand. Slightly less unreliable sources aren't any better if the claims they're allegedly supporting require more authority than what we have now. --Cheeser1 06:29, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Block.....

Nonono wait hear me out! That block! Was a misunderstanding! Please hear me! At least give a chance to defend my self here! I was blocked for Talk: Lolicon and Talk: Pedophile Ive now avoided that! Please dont! Please! I will not let wiki down PLEASE Zayzay-chan please! Be fair here sr!--Lolicon-r.us 14:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Calm down. I was just pointing out. If you behave yourself, you will have nothing to worry about.　そして、　「～くん」　もいいですね。僕は男だ。
Oh I see you have been blocked. I will see if I can help you out here. You seem to be playing by wikipedia rules with this account.--ZayZayEM 00:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Take a look at WP:BAN#Appeals_process. You should try and get the original User:Saikano account unbanned by appealing to Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee. You will need to show that you have furthered your understanding of wikipedia policies you broke, and also establish that you have something to contribute to the community. I would advise maintaining a civil tongue, swearing at a blocking admin is not teh best way to get unblocked.
You really need to understand wikipedia's guidelines on NO Original Research and Attributing your sources. While none of your edits with User:Lolicon-r.us have violated these rules, but you are evading a block. The Moe diagram is blatant POV/OR; Copyediting at List of H anime and FLCL is constructive,a dn I think you should emphasise this if you wish to be unblocked. --ZayZayEM 01:06, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for helping to talk to Saikano. He's heard all of this countless times; the original account was given 3 or 4 chances after first blocking, while the first several subsequent accounts were all given ample opportunities to right the ship. He is often able to avoid the subjects of main interest, like pedophilia and lolicon, at first, but he inevitably gets embroiled in a confrontation that ends with him making legal threats and lots of shouting and personal attacks. I invite you to read the talk pages of some of the other blocked accounts, and you'll see a similar pattern. There was a time when it seemed like he could focus on positive contributions, but he always reverts to the original behavior. Leebo /C 01:16, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Eugenics in Showa Japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Eugenics_in_Showa_Japan&diff=162559712&oldid=162548100

Flying-Tyger starts relating the war crime and the eugenics of Japan. However, the eugenics of Japan developed after the war. (It was not supported while fighting at all. )　I introduced a Japanese document, and pointed out his fact. I have the preparation and the material thoroughly discussed. Please point out the mistake of me concrete. Let's start a discussion.　--Azukimonaka 06:15, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the major problem here is WP:RS and WP:POV. Should we really be trusting enough to report only "Eugenics doctors in Japan insist that the eugenics of Japan are not related to Nazi Germany and militarism". Are Eugenics doctors an impartial reliable source in this matter. It probably should be included as a statement, but not as something abosultely credible.
That Eugenics started pre-war is obvious by the creation of 優生運動 in 1926 (which is not post-war).
Just because soemthing was not explicitly called Eugenics doesn't mean it wasn't. And also remember this article is Eugenics in Showa Japan, not Eugenics in Japan, so it really needs to focus on Eugenics, and eugenic-like movements, and eugenic-related movements in the Showa Period of Japan.
I'm also having a very hard time understanding your grammar here. I'm really sorry. But this is a problem in some of your reversions, as you make changes that are not consistent with Native English.
I see none of Flying Tiger's edits or the article directly relating war-crimes and eugenics to Japan. It is a relevent see also though, as the topics are relevent to each other as motives in this time period.--ZayZayEM 10:44, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

After the war, the eugenics of Japan developed. And, eugenics was promoted by doctors who believed in not the nationalist but Western medicine. Therefore, eugenics is spoken by the medicine history of Japan. Is there a question?　To this explanation. --Azukimonaka 17:59, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I am unable to reply to your concerns. I cannot understand them completely. I do not wish to misunderstand you, or have you misunderstand me.
あなたの言葉 ぜんぜんわからん から "reply"すること 出来ない。　ごめなさい。　--ZayZayEM 06:51, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
いえいえ。別に返事はしなくていいですよ。ではでは。--Azukimonaka 16:02, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
But if I can't understand your question/point, I can't answer it. And even when we do answer it you seem to lack the comprehension. None of the article relates Japanese War Crimes with Eugenics. The article does relate Eugenics in Showa Japan with wartime history and politics, because it was that time period.--ZayZayEM 23:54, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Saw your post on the Ja Project Talk page. Lepers were the subject of the law. Please see Ja:優生学#日本 and Ja:ハンセン氏病#断種・優生政策. Oda Mari (talk) 05:47, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I think I can answer your question but please be patient. I've got to translate the diseases from Heibonsha Encyclopedia (1958 ed.). Little by little. According to the encyclopedia, one of the subjects of the post-war law is people with genetic deformation like bone deficiency, polydactyl and short digits (sorry, I don't know the correct English medical term) brachydactylia. As for the post by Azukimonaka, I think he/she wanted to tell you that it was not nationalists or nationalistic doctors but doctors who influenced by Western eugenics theory promoted to enact the post-war law. Hope my English is understandable. Oda Mari (talk) 16:04, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Your English is fine Oda. Azukimonaka doesn't seem to understand the meaning of home front. While Eugenics in Japan wasn't a military effort, it did gain prominence during the Pacific War, and also had implications within the political climate of the time. It is not in the categories he objects to because it was military issue, but because it was a political issue during a time of war.--ZayZayEM 00:00, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Other diseases are:

  • Criminals with genetic predisposition to commit crime.
  • Patients with genetic diseases (total color-blindness, hemophilia, albinism and ichthyosis).
  • Mental defective.
  • Psychotic (schizophrenia, manic-depressive and eplepsy).

According to the Ja-WP, these last two were added to the law in 1952. That's the all diseases mentioned in the encyclopedia except mental defective/retard. There must be other diseases, but I'm afraid I have no idea. Oda Mari (talk) 09:02, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I found the diseases list here. There are a lot! Oda Mari (talk) 09:12, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

As you have the source. I would prefer you edit the page directly. I think it would be most helpful. FlyingTiger and myself may make cpyediting changes to it later, but that is what wiki is for.--ZayZayEM 09:13, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the encouraging words, but no. I don't trust my English. I don't make a large edit in articles. I only make a small modification or add Japanese in here. But I'm willing to get more facts if you want. Just tell me. Regards. Oda Mari (talk) 09:51, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Hope this might be a help. Oda Mari (talk) 10:17, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


前々大丈夫だよ。上手英語のレベルだと思う。Your English is fine. It's actually pretty great. Don't be so shy. I'd give you a thumbs up if I was still doing eikaiwa teacher interviews. I wouldn't have even thought you weren't a native English speaker until you said so. (僕は五年ぐらい日本語を勉強しましたから日本語を出来るですげど少ない言葉を覚えたからボチボチだけだと思います ^_^）--ZayZayEM 10:24, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Please abide by WP:NPA

Your comment here is a gross violation of WP:NPA. Please refrain from making such comments about other editors. Given your history of violating WP:NPA and being called on it, I would think you'd know better. Further violations will result in stronger action against you. (Now please, try to hide behind WP:SPADE. Jinxmchue 16:27, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd disagree. You called me a crank, and pointed me to a website that defines (and subsequently analyzes and belittles) cranks, which (if you'd read carefully) was not what's going on in that article. --Cheeser1 01:10, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Clarify: what wasn't going on in that article?--ZayZayEM 04:00, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Crank-ism. Crank-ing. Me being a crank. The fact that administrative action was not taken does not endorse or validate what you said (which is a personal attack, by the way, even if you had been correct). --Cheeser1 07:19, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Okay. What article? You mean the talk page right? And the talk page is what I'm not reading correctly?--ZayZayEM 07:23, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, talk page (to me, "that article" includes the pages associated with it). You decided to call me a crank, despite the fact that such an insult had no bearing on the discussion and was followed by a link to a site about cranks. I'm just asking that you not misrepresent the interaction - as if you were absolved or as if there was ever any resolution or indication that what you said was anything but out-of-line. --Cheeser1 07:33, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I"m not discussing this any further. I'm pointing out that having been accused of NPA once in recent history is not a "history" of it. I'm regretful I made the comment. But it wasn't meant as an attack.--ZayZayEM 07:39, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

User talk:Staate00

You could have reported him to WP:AIV. I'm going to do it now. Is that the reason you left me that comment...for me to report him? I'm a little confused. - Rjd0060 03:29, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

FYI-He's been blocked for 24 hours. See the block log. Hope thats what you wanted. - Rjd0060 03:38, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:The Singing Ship, Emu Park.JPG

Image Copyright problem
Image Copyright problem

Thank you for uploading Image:The Singing Ship, Emu Park.JPG. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Misplaced Pages takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. However, you may still consider claiming fair use.Jusjih 02:40, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

James Cook University

Hey there, I noticed you flagged this article as needing a clean-up. I'm currently working on it and as you've gone through it already, I was hoping you could tell me what areas still need work. Thanks! Niël 11:58, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

eugenics in Showa Japan

Please do not delete content from pages on Misplaced Pages, as you did to Eugenics in Showa Japan. Your edits do not appear to be constructive and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox for test edits. Thank you.

Please desist.

Flying Tiger has used sources. Please do not use wikipedia as a battleground for Japanese historical revisionism. It is not appropriate.

Your editing behaviour regarding this page is not constructive.

You have shown repeatedly an inability to understand the edits of others, as well as to convey your own meaning clearly.

Please also view other wikipeida policies and behaviours on appropriate ettiquette. Such as:

This is my last extension of good faith towards your edits on this article. I am directing members of WikiProject Japan towards the page and hopefully they will provide useful advice and insight.

ZayZayEM 04:15, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Latest edits

I'm going to address your most recent edits in detail so you amy understand better the concerns regarding your editing style.

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Eugenics_in_Showa_Japan&diff=165427965&oldid=165371493

You changed

Eugenics in Shōwa Japan refers to politics in the first part of the Showa era which promoted increasing the number of healthy Japanese, while simultaneously decreasing the number of people suffering mental retardation , disability, genetic disease and other conditions that led to them being viewed as "inferior" contributions to the Japanese gene pool.

into

Eugenics in Shōwa Japan refers to politics in the first part of the Showa era. To decrease an increase in the gene disease, and to increase the number of healthy Japanese, Japanese Government introduced arbitrary sterilization.

.

Problems:

  • "Eugenics in Shōwa Japan refers to politics in the first part of the Showa era" is wrong. This reads to say that all politics in the first part of the Showa Japan were eugenically motivated. We need to specify what politics, or at least disclaim with "some". The original does this by saying politics "which promoted increasing the number of healthy Japanese, while simultaneously decreasing the number of people ... being viewed as "inferior". This sort of change in grammar to the lead which destroys comprehension does not favour other editors to accepting your edits as non-disruptive, especially afterrepetitive warnings.
  • "gene disease" is not an English term genetic disease and genetic disorder are used.
  • However these terms are rather non-specific. This was in the early 20th century (and even late 19th) when not a lot was known about these things. It was not specifically genetic disorders that were targeted (indeed some non-genetic diseases such as leprosy were also targetted), it was disorders, that were thought to be of a genetic nature, that included retardation, physical disability, combinations (such as Down's Syndrome), as well as psychological issues (criminal behaviour, psychosis - which may or may not have genetic factors). The main combining feature was not that these were genetic disorders, but that they were making inferior contributions to the gene pool from the view of eugenicists.
  • a Final point is that article is about "politics", not laws. While the laws may say one thing, the political movement at the time may have extra things (or less things) on their minds. From an article on politics, articles on the actual laws may be added. This is why the point about the eugenicist view on contraceptives I feel is important, while no laws were made, it is a facet of the political movement's idealogy, and indeed illustrates a change in the idealogy motivated by various factors.

You also removed an entire section titled "After the war", this is well referenced an important facet of the issue. It is well known, published and verified, that Japanese politicians were involved in the promotion of using geisha houses and other water-trade facilities to pacify (some might also suggest corrupt) American occupiers.

This is your final warning against your disruptive and tendacious editing. Please consider your actions carefully.--ZayZayEM 00:17, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

It is troublesome to explain the mistake one by one. I will explain to you by using Timeline. --Azukimonaka 18:58, 19 October 2007 (UTC)