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/Infobox /Economy /Demographics —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarvagnya (talk • contribs) 06:59, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

(Incomplete) English translations of the National Anthem and Song

This article has been frozen from editing, so I can't do it myself, but can somebody please remove those two (incomplete) English translations of the National Anthem and Song? You can't just take the first line (not even a complete sentence!) of a poem (both the anthem and song of India are composed poems after all), translate that to English and call it the names of the National Anthem or Song. The poems ARE known as "Jana Gana Mana" and "Vande Mataram" respectively, yes, even in English, and it's utterly foolish to just translate the first line and put it out there below the real names of those poems. If English-speaking readers can't understand "Jana Gana Mana" and "Vande Mataram", well, that's just too bad, but that doesn't mean you go around putting in your own little bit of original research into this article and call it the names of the National Anthem and Song of India. In any case, please look at the articles on Pakistan and some other countries with non-English principal languages. Nobody's been translating the first line and putting in their bit of original research in THOSE articles, so why all this love for the India article, huh? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.225.2.107 (talk) 14:09, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Religious demographics

The demographics subsection says that Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains make up about 98.9% of the population. That leaves 1.1% for the rest. This includes Jews, Zoroastrians, Baha'is, Sarna and others. Later it says that Tribals are 8% of the population, and in the Tribals article it says that Sarna is their majority religion. WTF? 124.185.197.226 05:38, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Subdivisions of India

Why is "Subdivisions of India" required as a separate section on the page? There is a navigation box for "States and territories of India". The map with all the states marked on it, along with the three column list of states and UTs, does not look good on the page and doesn't really inform a reader much about India, other than the first sentence, which could simply be integrated to another section. The list is really not required there, is it? Has there been a discussion on these lines before? I'll shut up if there has been one. The US page doesn't have a similar list, and countries like Australia with just a few states, or UK with its mention of its four parts can't be the reference. Then again, there could be many arguments in favor of sticking to the list that is in place, like somebody is going to point out. --KeynesJohnMaynard 21:34, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

This really requires a response from someone more experienced on this page (like user:Nichalp or user:Ragib), however, I will note that some pages like FAs Peru and Germany that do have the subdivision sections, have more sophisticated navigation options there. I made a post about it on this page here, but got no response. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

The answer lies here: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Countries =Nichalp «Talk»= 02:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Ajanta Image

I am opposed to the Ajanta image because:

1. It is very unclear - I used to think my monitor was the reason I couldnt see the image, but after getting a new HP tx1000z, I still have a hard time making out the image.
2. Theres already a Maharashtra image - Few people have gotten upset regarding the regional balance.
3. Image isnt really mentioned in text
4. The caption doesnt relate to history

Proposal:

I would like to suggest replacing the Ajanta Caves image with the Taj Mahal image under the caption: "The Taj Mahal was built in 1648 by the Mughal dynasty" (or something similar) because:

• The Taj Mahal is more a historic artefact than a current cultural thing
• It would give us more room in the cultural section.
• The caption right now relfects Taj's historic nature

Let me know what you guys think. Nikkul 19:40, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

• I am completely and irrevocably against this idea. The Taj Mahal does not belong to the history section. If the Taj Mahal had not been built, the history of India would have been no different. The culture of India, however, would have been different. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:06, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

• If the Ajanta Caves had not been carved, India's history would not have differed at all. Similarly, if the Taj had not been built, it would not have affected present day Indian culture. Nikkul 23:07, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, you do have a point in your first sentence. I disagree with your second sentence. The construction and the continued presence of the Taj Mahal have had a profound influence on Indian culture (on later styles of architecture, on popular styles today, and on how Indians think of their culture). Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:52, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Well again, im talking about politics section image.. It should be Image of Indian parliament right? Unanimous? Lara_bran 15:05, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

I have been saying this for a long time that the Taj image need to be replaced because the world knows about it and there are other hidden architectural marvels that need to be there in this article since the world must know about other Indian architecture and culture. Here is one video from the discovery program. The lost temples of India. The video is about Rajaraja Chola and the temples he built. Chanakyathegreat 11:59, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

BSReddy changes

Is there a consensus to accept or reject the changes made by BSReddy? WhisperToMe 06:14, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Here is my case:

Hindi, English are official langauges for the union government of India. Telugu , Kannada , Bengali, Hindi are official languages for respective state governments in India.

If Telugu which is spoken by 80 million people is official language in of the indian states then how come only hindi, english would be classified as official languages of India.

I have no problems if english and hindi are listed as official languages of union govt of India.

Andhra pradesh is part of India. So if a decision is made to list union govt's official languages as official languages of India , then telugu is also an official language of India

India is comprised of its people , its state govts and its union govt, not just its union govt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.214.142 (talk) 06:23, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

The U.S. has no official languages at the federal level, yet Louisiana, a state, has French as an official language. That does not mean that the French for "United States" should be listed in the main article, since French is only official in Louisiana - No other states have French as an official language. WhisperToMe 06:27, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

A country has a national langauge(s). A govt has official languages(s).

India does not explicitly declare any language as its national language(s).

A state govts official language or a union govts official langauge should not be written as official languages of that country if there are multiple official langauges in the state and union govts.

either explitly state whether it is state or union govt or include all official languages of the states and union as offical languages of that country.

India and US are different. India is no new found land. Bsreddys 06:32, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Hindi and english are official langauges of the union govt of India.... and not whole of India

But then why are they listed as the only official languages of India(but not union govt of India) Bsreddys 06:36, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

If telugu is spoken by 80 million people and if they are indians and telugu is official language of one of the states of India then how come telugu is not official language of India??? yes I would agree if you say telugu is not official language of union govt of India. Bsreddys 06:42, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

India is not same as union govt of India. union govt and state govts and its people together form India.

Hence you cannot just only include hindi and english as official languages of India.

FYI India also does not have any language(s) declared as its national langauge(s).

an official language need not be accepted as national language but a national language in general would be its official language or one of its official languages. Bsreddys 06:47, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Also scheduled languages makes no sense ?? are they scheduled for some event or something ??? Bsreddys 06:50, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

And one of the user says official is implicit in scheduled languages. I dont think so. There is every need to make it explicit. There is official ness in whatever comprehension when a language is official recognised by union govt of India(by means of including it into the eigth schedule) and when a language is official langauge for one its state. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bsreddys (talk • contribs) 06:54, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/Official_languages_of_India

wiki details on official langauges of India. Bsreddys 07:06, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

You guys came too late...There was a whole arguement that took place last month. Go find it read it. personally i think we should go to the official site of india and list the languages that it says there. there are hundreds of languages which r spoken by Indians which do not need tobe listed. If you want to seewhat languages areofficial in Andra Pradesh,go to the page that says Andra Pradesh. Dont come here!!!!! this is the india page. if the government says Hindi and English and X and Y areofficial languages of India, then Hindi English, X and Y ARE official languages of India. Nikkul 07:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Dear BSReddys: Nikkul is correct and so is WhisperToMe. Besides you have violated 3RR many times over. I have left this message on the presiding admin's talk page. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 08:51, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

If you want to seewhat languages areofficial in Andra Pradesh,go to the page that says Andra Pradesh. Dont come here!!!!! <----------- Nikkul... you dont have to me tell me dont come here... mind your words... I am an indian I will come here... who are you to tell me dont come here ???? you get lost from here.... you dont come here ....

Hindi and English are official languages only for the union govt of India... not whole of India. And "scheduled languages" dont mean anything ... 75.36.214.142 17:52, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

If you want to seewhat languages areofficial in Andra Pradesh,go to the page that says Andra Pradesh. Dont come here!!!!! <----- Dear flower, You have already seen the calibre and potential of Nikkul. If the founder fathers were all like Nikkul this country would have disintegrated long back.

and regarding whispertome, he does not even know what are national langauges of India. He even pasted on my talkpage that hindi and english are national languages of India ... which is not correct and far from truth. A person who knows about india should be moderating this site... my 2 cents ... my 2 rupees ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.214.142 (talk) 18:01, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Dear BSReddys: Nikkul is correct and so is WhisperToMe.

> Dear flower, You have already seen the calibre and potential of Nikkul. If the founder fathers were all like Nikkul this country would have disintegrated long back.

and regarding whispertome, he does not even know what are national langauges of India. He even pasted on my talkpage that hindi and english are national languages of India ... which is not correct and far from truth. A person who knows about india should be moderating this site... my 2 cents ... my 2 rupees ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.214.142 (talk) 18:08, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Standard Urdu has approximately the twentieth largest population of native speakers, among all languages. It is the national language of Pakistan as well as one of the 23 official languages of India. <======= I got this from one of the wiki reference. So what is urdu ? is it one of the official languages of India?? It makes no sense to just quote the official langauges of the union govt as the official langauges of the whole country. Also India has no national langauges.

As a large and linguistically diverse country, India does not have a single official language. Instead, the Constitution of India envisages a situation where each state has its own official language(s), in addition to the official languages to be used by the Union government. The section of the Constitution of India dealing with official languages therefore includes detailed provisions which deal not just with the languages used for the official purposes of the union, but also with the languages that are to be used for the official purposes of each state and union territory in the country, and the languages that are to be used for communication between the union and the states inter se. 75.36.214.142 20:59, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

User BSreddy / 75.36.214.142,

All im saying is that you shouldnt expect to see the official language of Andhra Pradesh listed as the official language of India if India doesnt list that language as official. If you want to see the the official language of AP, then go to the AP page where ull find the official language of AP as said by the govt of AP. Here ull find the official language of India as said by the government. Also, learn to sign your comments. This is an encyclopedia not a gathering of India's forefathers.Nikkul 04:56, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

BS Reddy, do you have any sources to back up your claim or is it your personal interpretation? =Nichalp «Talk»= 15:29, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Based on hindi and english being official langauges for the union government you are trying to extrapolate them to be the official languages of the whole country.

Based on Telugu being in part of the "official languages commission" of India and based on it being the official language of state of telugus with 80 million population I am extrapolating to be one of the official languages of India . Because India is made of union govt and state govts... not just union govt.

And dont tell me not to come here. I am a telugu Indian and I will come here. If at all you guys go and visit hindi prachar sabha site. OK

63.119.227.6 17:58, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

As you can see here, Bsreddys (talk · contribs) was blocked for 48 hours at 00:40 on the 29th of October. That he is editing as an IP at 17:58, is a violation of the block. At the very least the block should be increased by another day. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 01:11, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Only person doing any extrapolation is you. Everything we have said is backed by scores of respected sources, both Indian and foreign. And please, learn to sign in. --Blacksun 09:30, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

He can't (sign in); he's still blocked. (Notice, he was signing in earlier.) Fowler&fowler«Talk» 10:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

BS Reddy, we're inviting you to a civilized conversation. Please cite reliable and independent sources that contradict the fact that Hindi and English have been given official status by the Constitution of India as the official language of the Union. The page, may we add, is the article on the Union of India. Unless you can come up with reliable sources to cite your claim, I suggest you stop wasting everbody's time on your personal ideas. =Nichalp «Talk»= 19:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Reddy, it's not worth trying to convince here in wikipedia that the Official languages as announced by the central government of India contains all 24 languages. The official viewpoint of the central government is still very biased in this regard and is not anything secular/equal. The rules favour and gives priority to Hindi and English. No provision is made to make sure that the remaining languages recognized as official languages are given the same status as Hindi and English. If you wish to protest write to the prime minister and various ministers of the central government and other political parties rather than trying to correct it here, because you are wrong. The equality in this regard is still not there. Chanakyathegreat 12:19, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

CITATION REQUIRED - OFFICIAL MAP HAS A CUT ON TOP

Did anyone observed that the offical map of India has a cut on its top? Samething carried out in "Free Access To All Human Knowledge” A Video Appeal From Misplaced Pages Founder Jimmy Wales " video clipping too. Has Indian govt. accepted the new map or what? The maps displayed along with the article are fine but the map displayed as offical locator on earth has a cut on the top, same also in the video clipping of wikipedia... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.236.243.16 (talk) 01:15, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Amba Vilas palace image + Caption

1) I find Amba vilas place image not important enough to be part of the rotation system.
2) I find the image quality to be poor. Only thing you can tell is that it is a big structure with small domes on top.
3) It has very suspicious and non-qualified caption: "Most visited tourist attraction in India"
If rotation is going to be used to put images like this with captions like that in the article, I am afraid I made a mistake supporting it. --Blacksun 13:19, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

A monument which was estimated to have attracted more visitors than the Taj aint important? Good luck with your argument. Sarvagnya 17:15, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I guess we pause the rotation for now and first screen all images through consensus and filter out the poor ones. Only after this procedure, should we continue the rotation. KnowledgeHegemony (talk • contribs) 13:40, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with both Blacksun and KH. To user:Sarvagnya, According to this article, over a hundred "paintings by Raja Ravi Varma are the prized possessions" of the Mysore Palace. Since user:Sarvagnya has just seen fit to remove the painting of Sakuntala by Raja Ravi Varma, might he also consider removing a fake Maharaja's 1912 monument to poor taste that houses over a hundred such paintings? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 18:50, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Sakuntala image was removed from rotation? I dont really understand how the rotation code works. However, Sakuntata image better be in rotation or I am going to be upset. --Blacksun 15:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Someone wanted to remove it and did it. The reason - one photo per state. Smart isn't it. Wow! Now I am really starting to like Misplaced Pages. KnowledgeHegemony 15:22, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Very smart indeed. Just the way somebody removed a significant effort like rotation from the article today without having the courtesy to inform the relevant people that it is going to be removed. Wow! Amazing! We all better start liking Misplaced Pages for the way it is, we dont have an option -- ¿Amar៛ 16:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• sigh*. I dont need a tribune article to tell me that the Mysore palace houses RV's paintings. I've been visiting the Amba Vilas and other palaces in Mysore for as long as I can remember. And each time, a good part of my visit is spent staring in awe at the paintings. Anyway, which part of "one pic per state - rm shakuntala image. the trissur pooram is more typically picture postcard Kerala." do you have trouble understanding? As for your pathetic "..monument to ugliness/poor taste", you might want to impress that upon the millions who throng to even just get a glimpse of the palace each year. huh. dont know why I bother dignifying your BS with responses. you troll me into it. dont you? Sarvagnya 20:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you get a RS for your claim that it is the most visited in India and only then put a caption like that or else its an empty statement.

And dude, I have been to Amba Vilas and Taj Mahal both. Obviously, theres no comparison between the two. So plz don't compare the WONDER with Ambas.

KnowledgeHegemony 11:05, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Well KH, for one, I am not comparing the two. I leave such inanities to the likes of you and fowler. More importanly though, I have a sense of history which you clearly dont seem to share. The Mysore palace was where the likes of Nalvadi Krishnaraja Wodeyar, Sir MV, JC Wodeyar, Sir Mirza Ismail and such other visionaries held court. The Mysore palace is where the seeds of Indian democracy were sown through their pioneering attempts at creating institutions which today have morphed into our legislative assemblies and councils. The deeds of these gentlemen serve India richly to this day. They changed the history of Karnataka and India in ways the begum who rests in your WONDER wouldnt even have dreamt of. In short, its surely a far cry from the hapless begum of yours who died trying in vain to add to her litter. Like I said, it calls for a bit of objectivity and knowledge of history to appreciate things like this. Come back when you've done some reading. Or better still, go back(to the palace) after you've done some reading. Places of historical interest arent zoological gardens where you go, gape at the monkeys and come back. Sarvagnya 19:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

user:Sarvagnya said: "In short, its surely a far cry from the hapless begum of yours who died trying in vain to add to her litter."

"add to her litter?" That doesn't display a "sense of history;" it does, however, constitute misogyny, since Mumtaz Mahal likely had no choice in the matter when she became pregnant for the 14th time and later died in childbirth. I implore you to retract those words. They are ugly and uncalled for. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 09:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Your prejudice is showing. You can chose to live your life with hate. Just dont bother to use wikipedia to spread it because you will be stopped. And I still do not see any evidence for "most visited tourist site" in India claim of yours. Maybe I missed it? --Blacksun 10:16, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

What venom dude! By the way whats this- "your Begum" and "your Taj Mahal"?? Why do make (and take) things so "personal(ly)"?

Also stick to the debate. I never talked on historical aspect about the Amba Vilas and clearly was talking in terms of architecture (since photos put up in Culture section are concerned with architecture). So please don't bother to flaunt your historical knowledge on a debate which concerns with architecture. Cause that amounts to BS (as you call it). KnowledgeHegemony 10:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Also where is source for "the most visited monument in India" ? KnowledgeHegemony 10:54, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

"Haven't you guys understood by now that I don't put things down unless I've checked the sources. Amazing!". It is just that I dont spin "cock and bull"(as Amar puts it) stories from my sources as someone here is wont to. Sarvagnya 19:29, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Dear user:Sarvagnya:

• The incorrectly worded and grammatically shabby report from The Hindu, that you have yourself quoted incorrectly, says, "Better known as the “Mysore Palace”, the Amba Vilas is among the most visited monuments in India and attracts more number of tourists than the Taj Mahal. Well, almost. The number of visitors to the Mysore Palace in 2006 was 25,25,687 and as per the Archaeological Survey of India figures while the figure was 25,39,471 tourists visited the Taj Mahal in Agra."
• What the report doesn't tell you is that the Mysore Palace is not a ticketed monument of the Archeological Survey of India. In fact, the ASI has no interest in the Mysore Palace, because the latter, having been completed in 1912, is not old enough yet. Who then is compiling the Mysore Palace ticket numbers? Maybe ASI is, but we need some reliable indication of that.
• The same newspaper also had another report, which quoted an official of the Indian National Trust for Art and Cultural Heritage as saying, “the Taj has always been the most visited and most popular Indian tourist destination. People abroad consider the monument synonymous with India.” Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

PS And then there is this also "reliable" report from the Indian Express .... Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:02, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Well now (after this revelation) please remove the caption- "most visited monument in India". It would further fool readers who come Misplaced Pages's India page. KnowledgeHegemony 08:21, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

"Revelation"? What revelation? If you want to change the caption to read "...one of the most visited..", go ahead.. who's stopping you? That doesnt however, call for irrelevant drivel on the lines of "...it is not a ticketed monument of the ASI.. so who keeps count" etc.,. The directorate of archeology and museums, GoK takes care of the monument and feel free to take your 'grave' concerns about visitor count to them. Or perhaps to the Director General of Epigraphy(ASI) who operates out of his office in the palace complex. Whatever it is, take it offline and stop filling pages here, for, you seem to impress only the Kuntans and nobody else with such blather. Sarvagnya 08:41, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

The revelation that we cannot take what you say seriously as you not only write inaccuracies but defend doing so. --Blacksun 09:10, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Sarvagnya, even after your own source turned out to contradict your tall claims you still don't seem to accept you were wrong (and that the article got the better of you). Anyways, it that it was a "gem" of a "cock and bull story" that you spun.... KnowledgeHegemony 14:00, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

"Śakuntala" and Mysore Palace (continued)

Is the "Śakuntala" image a representation of Kerala, the home state of its artist? Saravask, who created the rotation template and wrote much of the Kerala FA, clearly didn't think so; otherwise on October 23, he would not have made this revert. In case this is not clear, let me explain: while the summary mistakenly points to the Toda image as an example from Kerala, it implies that it does not regard "Śakuntala" as also representing Kerala; otherwise, a few edits later, Saravask would not have allowed user:Sarvagnya to re-add the Trisoor/Pooram image (see here).

A week later, on November 1, user:Sarvagnya deleted "Śakuntala." What was his justification? His edit summary says: "one pic per state - rm shakuntala image. the trissur pooram is more typically picture postcard Kerala." The "Śakuntala", however, was there in the rotation template first. (In the straw poll, "Śakuntala" received more votes than Tagore.) Why then did user:Sarvagnya unilaterally add the Trisoor/Pooram image if he thought "Śakuntala" already represented Kerala? And why did he then wait one full week to delete "Śakuntala"? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 18:58, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

PS I have reverted user:Sarvagnya's unilateral deletion of Śakuntala. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:04, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

It is a gross disrespect of other editors to remove Sakuntala image. It is one of the few images that actually was voted on and had 6 (for) vs 3 (against). How can you remove that image and replace it with something NO ONE HAS EVEN BOTHERED TO VOTE ON?? This is disruptive and arrogant. --Blacksun 09:14, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Origin of Chicken (food)

• user:Sarvagna's edit summary: "removed dubious "chicken" claim. what? people around the world werent eating chicken before Indiians taught them?"
• Encyclopaedia Britannica's article on Fowl (lead sentences): "Chickens are descended from the wild red jungle fowl of India and belong to the species Gallus gallus. They have been domesticated for at least 4,000 years." Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:22, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Aren't we talking about chicken as a food product here? That apart, why did you revert all of Sarvagnya's edits which were reasonable and productive? Care to explain addition of WP:UNDUE in the article? Gnanapiti 20:31, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

DFTT. Its obviously a pretext to continue revert-warring.Bakaman 23:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I am talking about chicken as a food product. They were domesticated first in South Asia. Haven't you guys understood by now that I don't put things down unless I've checked the sources. Amazing! Fowler&fowler«Talk» 03:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

LOL! Your source does not necessarily imply that Chicken (food) originated in India. It only says that Chickens descended from wild red jungle fowl of India. Now, obviously the first thing early humans thought of on seeing an animal was food! If your source said that Chickens were first domesticated in India, then your claim was valid. God.. its commonsense. --Lokantha 04:37, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

They were not even domesticated first in South Asia. This book says it is Thailand. And even this one says the same thing. And even this one. - I think I have said enough. So much for self-glorification and checking of sources, huh... -- ¿Amar៛ 04:46, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

To user:Amarrg and user:Lokantha: There are two issues involved here: (a) which is the original domesticated breed (in poultry farming terms) that produced the breeds that are eaten around the world, and (b) which is the ancestral progenitor(s) (in phylogeographic terms) in the wild of all the breeds. They are both further treated on my subpage: User:Fowler&fowler/Chicken. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:27, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I swear I thought this was the talk India page where people discuss things about this article. If you have a problem with Sarvagnyas edits about chikens, discuss them on the chicken page which is not this one (i think) Nikkul 07:32, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
(unindent)hey KNM, why did you have to change the section heading? you just robbed the poor guy the chance to wallow in his adolescence. hmm.. never mind, I'm sure he will come up with another gem. for now, this chicken and fowl spectacle sure is enough to keep us amused for the next few days.  :) Sarvagnya 16:37, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Is it chicken and fowl spectacle or cock and bull spectacle? -- ¿Amar៛ 16:48, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I suggest we leave out the mention that chicken sugar etc originated in India. Such a fact (contentious/little known) needs to be backed by more references, and we could very well expand on it on the article of cuisine of India. =Nichalp «Talk»= 17:15, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Sure, Nichalp, no problem. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:06, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Archive

This page needs to be archived ASAP. =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:19, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I just added the archive bot User:MiszaBot, which will archive all discussions older than thirty days now. Gizza 06:31, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, in line with WT:INB, I changed it to ten days since this is a very active page. Gizza 06:34, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Ha, it has dropped from ~ 276kb to ~ 47. Gizza 03:57, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Removing Image rotation templates

In the Straw Poll for Rotation of Images a majority voted for - For Rotation of Images (with decision on image quality made at WP:PINSPC and with no "Featured Quality" condition on image. But no WP:PINSPC quality procedure has taken place now that 2 weeks are over. Hence, in respect of the the "Consensus poll" I am removing the templates. Continuing with it (ie.without the quality check) is a mockery of the civil discussions which took place on the matter and the people who voted. Hence I am removing it for now. Once the correct procedure is followed we can put the templates back. KnowledgeHegemony 14:10, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Let us decide on where to discuss the images. I think we need to have all the images on display somewhere on a talkpage and then under each image, there should be a discussion. Do let me know where this is takin palce. Nikkul 21:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I've added the image rotation templates back to the article. Pending further discussion and consensus to remove image rotation entirely, we should discuss ways to improve it. Which images do you oppose User:KnowledgeHegemony? There are a few that I believe are still non-relevant, as I've said before, which I have not removed because I believe that we came up with a good compromise. What do you suggest as a way of improving the images? Or should we put the Tagore image back in place, which was the last image in the Culture section before this very workable compromise was installed? A great deal of discussion and compromise went into image rotation, let's not throw it all out. I still believe it is the best of our choices, and we should work at improving it. ॐ Priyanath talk 19:32, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

• user:Priyanath, I won't revert your edit (in light of the Śakuntala image's reappearance in the rotation template), but I'm afraid many questions need to be answered. Nowhere was it agreed to, as is stated here that the Śakuntala image represents Kerala (on account of Kerala being the home state of its artist Raja Ravi Varma), and more importantly, nowhere was it agreed to that if it did represent Kerala, it was inferior in such representation to the later-added Trisoor/Pooram image; indeed the latter addition was never discussed on the English language Misplaced Pages.
• Why is an image of the Mysore Palace, a Maharaja's 1912 extravagance, a representative of Karnataka, when there are many more famous representatives around, two of them World Heritage Sites?
• Until the Śakuntala image, the choice by six votes to three over the Tagore image, is secure in the rotation template without threat of deletion by the minority opposed to it, and the questions raised, both above by user:KnowledgeHegemony and user:Blacksun about the Mysore Palace, and here by user:Blacksun, are adequately answered, this problem will continue to plague this page. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

• I agree that certain images are more representative of aspects of culture, rather than geographic regions — and therefore we can have more than one image for a certain region in those cases. For example, Tagore represents literature rather than Bengal, and an image representing Bengal could (and should) be added. I think there's enough support for Sakuntala to keep it. Even though it doesn't have my support, that's part of the compromise we each need to make in order for this to work.
• Mysore Palace is notable and widely visited. It's no more of an extravagance (actually less) than the image holding permanent place in the culture section, the Taj Mahal. I'm for keeping Mysore Palace.
• If we're going to discuss inappropriate images, then we should be discussing Toda first. If we're going to be more tolerant, and accept choices that have significant support, then we should accept that the current system of rotation is working far better than the previous approach. Yes, it needs some fine tuning, but it is definitely a huge step in the right direction. ॐ Priyanath talk 19:50, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

• Thanks for your conciliatory words; meanwhile, unbeknownst to you (?), user:Sarvagnya has once again deleted the Śakuntala image from the rotation template.
• You still haven't answered my main question: why is the Mysore Palace more notable than the other more important monuments of Karnataka? Do you have any reliable academic sources? As for "extravagance," I used the word, not in its secondary meaning of "exorbitant" (in expense), which the Taj certainly was, but in its primary meaning, (OED) "excessive, irregular, fantastically absurd." which the Taj most certainly is not.
• The Toda dairy image had more votes than Tagore, it had numerous reliable secondary academic sources attesting to the importance of the Toda in culture, and it is a Featured Picture. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:51, 7 November 2007 (UTC) Updated Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:07, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree, these things should be discussed before getting into more (endless) revert wars. Sarvagnya isn't alone in doing that, by the way. The length of rotation, originally set by Saravask at 24 hours, was never discussed before you arbitrarily changed it. I think the next step is to come up with a process for looking at images. Saravask, when he added image rotation, suggested "We're starting this new thing the way WP:FA began: at first, articles were hand-selected by good-faith contributors based on "refreshing, brilliant prose". Then, as more people got interested, the consensus-based WP:FAC and WP:FAR processes matured." It may be time to develop that process, and should perhaps be discussed on the India Project page rather than here. I think it would be helpful to draw in some editors who haven't been part of the toxic environment here during the last year. I think that discussion (process) is more important right now than (the same editors as always) fighting over every image. ॐ Priyanath talk 19:49, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I have changed the template rotation back to daily. I didn't "arbitrarily" change it, as you put it, but as a part of my post here, echoing Ragib's, which made the point that for the active editors of the India page, who go to the page several times a day, hourly change would be the best way of simulating (during the trial period) the experience of an average reader, who goes to the page several times a month. As for Saravask's analogy of "refreshing brilliant prose," it would be great if it could be applied here; the problem here, however, is that the pictures (with the exception of Toda, or Apatami) are neither refreshing nor brilliant, as evidenced by their poor performance in the FPC process. So, what are we attempting here? Replicating what already exists, namely the FPC process, but lowering the standards several notches? And then relying on the consensus of people who, in the throes of their parochial compulsions, seldom choose to display the pictorial expertise they might possess? What is taking it to project India do? If you want to judge brilliant pictures, you start by first acquiring brilliant pictures. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Culture Of India Additions

"Indian cuisine is characterized by a wide variety of regional styles and sophisticated use of herbs and spices. The staple foods in the region are rice (especially in the south and the east) and wheat (predominantly in the north)."

I think having two lines to describe the cuisine of india is rediculious. There is so much variation and diversity that we need to mention. The sad thing is that actual dishes that r popular havent even been mentioned. Only four ingredients have been mentioned.

There has been a lot of talk of expanding the culture section and I think this is one example of something that needs to be expanded.

Nikkul 22:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Culture can be expanded to an infinite length. The shorter the sweeter. =Nichalp «Talk»= 04:29, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

If we mention more dishes than are already there, we would have to take regional balance into account. Thats means that if we add dosa from the South and fish from Bengal, we would have to add five or six more popular dishes for every region of India. The current two sentences would then be bloated to at least six unless we list them, but then it won't flow. Gizza 05:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Major City

In Major city Gurgaon need to be add. http://en.wikipedia.org/Gurgaon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.161.42.120 (talk) 03:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Why? =Nichalp «Talk»= 05:12, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it merits any attention because it has a relatively small population and it has no significant cultural, religious or historical site. If anything, Ahmedabad might be added, but I think the list is good as is. Sseballos 23:38, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Image Rotation

Are we going to discuss the images that make the final cut for culture rotation? I think we should discuss it here since this page is the india page. Also, has the discussion started about each image? and Where? Nikkul 18:26, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Amba Vilas, Taj Mahal & the Hindu error

I recently wrote to the Hindu Readers' Editor asking them about their policy regarding errors in their archived online pages. The reply I received included their admission to have erred in a story which was talked about earlier in this talk page. The excerpt from the letter contains the response of the electronic division of the newspaper to the Readers' Editor.

The discussion that he has linked to in wikipedia has to do with the Amba Vilas Palace (the Mysore palace) where one editor has linked to a story in The Hindu ( http://www.hindu.com/2007/08/17/stories/2007081755371000.htm ) in which we *have* committed an egregious error: The headline says: "Mysore Palace beats Taj Mahal in popularity" while the copy says "Better known as the "Mysore Palace", the Amba Vilas is among the most visited monuments in India and attracts more number of tourists than the Taj Mahal. Well, almost. The number of visitors to the Mysore Palace in 2006 was 25,25,687 and as per the Archaeological Survey of India figures while the figure was 25,39,471 tourists visited the Taj Mahal in Agra. "

Thank you

K. Narayanan The Readers' Editor, The Hindu, Kasturi Buildings, 859 -- 860 Anna Salai, Chennai 600 002 India

--Not pointy 17:32, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

What was/is the error? If you read the article completely, the headline is still consistent with the content. - KNM 17:59, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

If you look at the numbers closely, you'll see that the Taj had just slightly more visitors than Mysore Palace, rather than the other way around. Essentially, they are relatively equal in popularity based on those numbers, so it wasn't an 'egregious' error by any stretch of the imagination. It is interesting to see that they are both such popular attractions, however. ॐ Priyanath talk 18:21, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, I have seen the numbers and that is why I said, "if you read the article completely, ....".

The article clearly states this: Sources said if the combined figures of the ticketed tourists and those who enter the main gate but not the Durbar Hall were counted, the number of tourists visiting Mysore Palace would easily outnumber those visiting the Taj Mahal.

In whatever way we look, this is in sync with the headline which states, "Mysore Palace beats Taj Mahal in popularity". So, from above mail from The Readers' Editor, I am not clear what was/is the error. - KNM 18:37, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks - I didn't read the article completely. So it looks like Mysore Palace is more popular, and the headline was correct. ॐ Priyanath talk 19:26, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, Mr. Pointy.. what's your point? If you dont have one, stop bothering us. Your time is perhaps better spent handing out worthless barnstars to your guru. Who else would accept barnstars from you, anyway. Sarvagnya 19:46, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

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