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Thanks

Thanks Zora. Great to hear from you. I've just started getting active again on wikipedia after a particularly hectic semester. I did see Lage Raho Munna Bhai, after hearing a very favorable review in an introductory course on nonviolence at UC Berkeley. Wishing you kshanti and good luck with your arthritis, and lots of success with everything in the New Year. Regards, deeptrivia (talk) 03:32, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Shilpa Shetty

Hey Zora, just giving you a heads-up - The Shilpa Shetty article could probably do with a spring-clean as she is reported to be appearing on Celebrity Big Brother 2007 soon. I've cleaned it already as best as I could, including references and stuff, but these thigns always need expansion. I'll be keeping a heads-up in the media also for reliable info to go in this article. Hope you're well. Ekantik 03:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Battle of Karbala

Hi, I added a new part in this article and put a comment in the talk page. Please don't remove it before any discussion. --Sa.vakilian 09:56, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Qur'an

Happy New Year! I hope that next year for you will bring new happiness and joys in your life. I was just reading an article by Ghamidi on Principles of Understanding the Qu'ran in mizan and I found it very informative. It can be accessed from here. It includes topics like classical arabic, its languistic style, variant readings, thematic coherence, and generally other principles which are required in understanding Qur'an. You may find it useful. Cheers! TruthSpreader 22:38, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Antisemitism in Islam

Hi Zora, given your interests I thought I might ask you to have a look at the section on Islam and antisemitism in the Antisemitism article. There is lively disagreement on Talk:Antisemitism as to how to approach this, what sources should be used etc and I think it could do with an outside eye.

Aside from that, I hope you're keeping well and I wish you all the best for the New Year. Palmiro | Talk 13:02, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Your edits to Kaaba

In this edit of yours:

1. You brought back all links except the non-Muslim link which is: Believe - Christian site with information on other beliefs. Please explain why you did not bring in this link back as well.
2. You deleted pictures of the Kaaba - on what grounds? Please explain.

thanks, --Matt57 17:09, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

re: the second point, did you check the talk page? ITAQALLAH 17:36, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm checking the talk page now and dealing with the matter there. --Matt57 17:40, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Zora, please see the talk page here on Pictures of Kaaba: http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Kaaba#Pictures_of_Muhammad . --Matt57 17:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Happy New Year!!

Hello, Zora, a Happy New Year to you! Best regards --Plumcouch 18:44, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Happy New Year, hope you had a good one. :) Ekantik 16:13, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Happy New Year/ Our discussion

Hi Zora, wishing you a Happy New Year. I was on wikibreak the last couple of days and the thread on ANI got archived in the meanwhile. May I know your current stand on it? If you still have objections to the template on Indian actor pages, please let me know. I intend to start my bot in the next few days but dont have any intentions of edit warring over it. Hence I thought I'd check with you. In case you havent seen my last few replies on the thread, here they are for your reference — Lost 06:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Zora, we can take this through formal dispute resolution if you want. However, I would like to discuss it with you first so that we can understand what the other is saying. Can you tell me what it is that you are against. I ask because I get a slightly different response every time I approach you:

• Are you against all wikiprojects based on nationality? You say that we should follow US and UK and since they are not tagging by country, we should not do it either. Well, for one, I question that logic. But even the statement is faulty. Not only US but many other countries do have their own projects. Each of them has their flag on the template. See Template:WikiProject United States, Template:WP Australia, Template:WikiProject Iran etc. etc.
• Are you against talk page templates of wikiprojects in general?: As I keep repeating, thats a separate technical discussion. If there is consensus to keep project templates out of talk pages altogether, then I have no objections. But if it is only against specific articles and specific projects, then I do have objections.
• Dividing Misplaced Pages along national, religious etc etc lines. I think we can get into a long philosophical discussion on this whether nations and other identities were created to separate people or join them, but the fact is that all of these are realities. Crusading against a wikiproject is not going to take the reality of nations and religions away. But I think you have got the concept of a wikiproject wrong. They exist to give related articles some organisation, not to ignite religious or nationalistic passions. Plus the WP1.0 team is involved in something very noble. They bring out cds for distribution where there is no internet access. How do they decide which articles to include? Through the wikiproject assessments. That is how the project templates help. See Misplaced Pages:Version 1.0 Editorial Team. Specifically Misplaced Pages:Version 1.0 Editorial Team#Status. They encourage use of bots so that articles that are of importance to the various projects can be improved and included in the cd. The core topics get included on priority. These are generally articles that a project tags as top importance. What may be top importance for one project may not be so for another. The task is a very noble one, I think. I myself keep assessing articles when I get time. If you want, you can go through my contribs but rest assured that there are actually people working on the importance and quality of articles that can be included for WP1.0.
• Finally, it is not nationalism that has killed millions. Its the inability to accommodate others' point of view. Nationalism/religion etc. are double edged weapons. We can use them to create a better world or to kill millions. Even the so called Indo Pak war ended when editors managed to accommodate each others' point of view.

Phew, that was a long discourse. Anyway, let me know what you think and we can take this through the appropriate channels. — Lost 09:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Nicole Kidman

Just so that you don't lose any sleep wondering why she was in Project Hawaii, Kidman was born there. You're right in that it wasn't really notable enough to be listed though! --Steve _(Slf67) 08:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

My POV and some other issue

Hi Zora,

• Please remind that not only Shi'as know Yazid as an unjust ruler but also Sunnis know him as the cruel one:Sunni view of Yazid I. Even who do not agree with uprising against such ruler and recognize him as legitimate one like Muhammad Al-Ghazali . I don't know whether you are familiar with his governance or not but please read what he did in Medina and Mecca in Tabari's history. Thanks God in these events Shi'a didn't suffer but the rape and pillage of Mecca and Medina's Muslims(you can read people) and setting the Kaaba on fire was nothing but tyranny.

• Another issue, I don't know where you're from and what your religion is but as Iranian Shi'a student I live with these issues. These are part of my history and today's life. So I get deep knowledge about them during my life. When I said them I don't mean just Shi'a POV but also Sunni and Persian POV.

• I suffer a lot when I see some poets in my country tell lies about Imam Hussain(PBUH) to cry people. Also I know Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia and we should write "Al-Ghazali oppose Hussain because of uprising against legitimate caliphate and on the other hand abula'ala Mududi opposed Omavids as ilegitimate rullers so he had different POV about Hussayn's uprisng. " in Sunni POV part. --Sa.vakilian 11:36, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think we shouldn't write anything about history because there isn't any historical text which show Umavid POV. Absolutly later historians use Abi Mekhnaf thus others like Tabari are biased and we don't know anything about reality:))--Sa.vakilian 12:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

About epithets and long plots

Hi, and sorry to refer you to a project you are already part of. I hadn't checked your contributions. Cbrown's introduction in WikiProject Films somehow reminded me of my favorite "Indian", i.e. Peter Sellers in The Party and his "In India, sir, we know who we are. We don't need others to tell us who we are." So visiting your user page with this still in mind, I found the epithet section very relevant and amusing. :) Hoverfish Talk 23:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

About long synopsis. I happened to be checking Beattles related films, when I came to Alice in Wonderland (1985 film). The plot was writen from a young person, or at least it was written so and then tagged for grammar. It was the scene by scene description you mentioned. You are a mother, so how would you feel if your (say) 11 year old had made a good effort on writing about a film? I am no father, but I was moved from the effort and didn't even want to take away its childish style. I checked in other sites for plots and I noticed that what was given here was by far more informative. So I did my best to keep it as given and corrected as much grammar and phrasing as I could. I agree that there could also be a plot summary (synopsis) which would be 1/10th of it, given in one ot two paragraphs. Maybe this should happen to many films. But if we do have a more detailed version, we shouldn't just scrap it. I agree, some users could be on an ego cruise, but I try to see it rather as information gathered. So I got this idea of sub articles for extended plots that may not be desired or needed in the main article. I would appreciate any reply on this. Hoverfish Talk 08:49, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I meant just the extended plot to be a subarticle. I will ask if we can get statistics for articles. I am only 4 months a wikipedian. I have tried myself with plots, but have done only a handful from scratch. I naturally tend to give the whole story, in a way that is as brief as I can, but without feeling I left gaps. If I try to make a very short version, I have the feeling it's not informative enough, or what I said was just the part that was important to me. Maybe such a brief summarizing but still sufficiently informative is a talent I don't have. So I end up with plots like The Favour, the Watch and the Very Big Fish. And I don't feel I was egoistically motivated, because I was simply doing my best to describe the film without including too many details. It is true that I am using my sense of being thorough but not vain. We have about 10.000 stubs to bring to class start. Maybe not all of them are really worth it, but even so still LOTS. If I give up trying to make plots (because of my lengthy results which I wouldn't like to impose if I know they are not welcome) and if more users are discouraged (because they would exceed 500 words) and since more stubs are comming in with time, are there really enough good brief-plot ("plot summary") editors to achieve this in the next few years? Hoverfish Talk 12:57, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

By the way here is imdb's plot summary on the previous film: . If I hadn't seen the film, this would tell me only a fraction of what I would like to know. It certainly doesn't answer to the question "what is the plot of this film?" Hoverfish Talk 13:30, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I quite sympathise with the party bore parallel. I also sympathize with people who want to find an objectively given extended plot. I am very selective in viewing films, so I want to know what I will get into. Some elements in the extended plot can switch me either way. Even without statistics, and being a not very social person, I still know a few people like me in this, including my wife. That's why I want to suggest the sub-article solution. Also I wouldn't start a competition in how many visited the main article vs. the extended plot version. Even one in twenty would satisfy me. But I do not claim that the extended version should be recommended or any priority. If the data is there and it conforms to encyclopedic requirements, let's just not delete it. Even so, if one starts getting on tangents about details it should be cut off, even from the extended version. Ok, and I will move this issue to the project's talk so I don't get to be a party bore here. Hoverfish Talk 15:11, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Our discussion

Hi Zora, I am not sure if you read my reply above as there have been more threads added after that. Hence I am writing this at the bottom. I request you to go through and let me know if my comments make sense to you. Else please suggest a way forward. I am willing to be assisted by third party mediation or any other form of resolution that you think will solve the problem. Rest assured I take your edits in good faith, else I would not have done so much explaining... Its just that I dont agree with your viewpoint and would like this resolved amicably — Lost 10:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Zora, since I have not heard from you, I am assuming and hoping that there is no issue any longer. I assure you that I will not be tagging articles that I think will create controversy. If you are still opposed, you are welcome to let me know of course. Regards — Lost 08:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Zora, Here's another related link that I came across — Lost 10:06, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Zora, as I said I have no intentions of edit warring with you. If you think some sort of dispute resolution will help, I will welcome it. Just for the record, the project is not about the government of a country. I am no fan of governments. The project is about the country and everything related to it which definitely includes its cinema and citizens. Frankly, my advice is to assume some good faith about others' intentions. — Lost 16:52, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Karbala

That's true, I was paraphrasing, in order to get rid of copyvio. And it is of course not well written (maybe you can help :)) Would you please have a look at the source here

It seems to me that it distinguishes between what Shias believe and what secondary academic sources believe. I don't claim that this source is the consensus of academic scholars but it is a source.--Aminz 11:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Please see the end of the first paragraph on page 13 (..and countless descendents). It is definitely not a very Shia friendly source. :| --Aminz 11:42, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Halem

Zora, Bernard Lewis also sometimes uses the term matrydom. The academic sources are not NPOV. They say "Prophet Muhammad", "Jesus Christ"... I was searching about Halem in google. He really seems to be a notable scholar. For example, he has written articles on "al-Mansura" and "Rawk" in Encyclopedia of Islam. Here , Michael Bonner Professor of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University has translated his work from German to English and published it through Brill Academic Press. And if a recent source quotes a source published 100 years ago, then that would still be of use I feel.

But I agree with you that he has a POV, but everybody has a POV. Being NPOV doesn't mean denying Shia POV. Esposito is famous for being sympathetic towards Islam but nevertheless it is "a" POV. I think in any controversial topic there are people who are sympathetic towards one or the other group.

And I am not dismissing your sources. That's also a POV. All POVs can be covered.--Aminz 12:14, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Zora, I agree with you that it is not the area of expertise of Halem but I don't find it fair to say that all he wrote is not an academic POV. While writing the Shia account of the story, we can say that these academic scholars accept it (in order to remove redundancy). Why should we put the academic POV in contrast with Shia POV? --Aminz 12:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Re Abu Mekhnad: Abu Mekhnaf(d. 157/774) is a primary source and thus it could be used only when used in secondary sources. If an academic secondary source quotes a passage from it, then that passage should be reliable.

Re Academic Sources: Your point regarding the existence of pre-assumptions is valid. If enough scholars have worked on this topic, I think there must be a lot of controversy in academia. Some agree with some assumptions and some don't. In some cases it is possible that the consensus of opinions tend to reject an assumption or accept it. In that case, we can put academic POV in contrast with Shia POV. Otherwise, Shia POV would be one out of several academic POVs. Halem's usage of the word "matrydom", I think, is adding the POV that the death of Hussein was sacred but I don't think that makes him an unreliable academic source. I feel it is not more POV as saying "Jesus Christ". Regards, --Aminz 03:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Tilak and bindi

Can you comment on tilak page about merging them? Mlpkr 19:48, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Eureka

Hi, Finally I found several dicuments which shows reliablity of Abi Mekhanf(Thanks God) . But they're in Deutsch, Arabic and Persian. Now it's your turn.(It's like chess and I enjoy a lot.)--Sa.vakilian 07:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Zora I found an academic study about Abi Miqnaf in American university of Beirut and copy it in the talk page of that article. Also I've found this:. You may say that he's Shi'a and Iranian so he's not reliable but if you remind that most of historic books in this issue are in Persian and Arabic and some of them don't introduce to west then you'll admit that such research is so valuable - I don't mean certainly correct. And also you admit that we -Iranian Shi'as- aren't some partisans which should be neglected to avoid POV pushing. I'm certain you'll lost too many things if you neglect Shi'a researches. Also I should remind there are some researches in Persian and Arabic which are more correct than this one. I want to speak with one of the professor of history in Tehran University to help me with this issue.--Sa.vakilian 12:13, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand why you said "You seem to me to be working from a very black and white model. Sources are either trustworthy, and to be accepted in toto, or untrustworthy, and to be rejected. It's more of a spectrum, with most sources in the middle." Maybe I couldn't describe my intentions correctly. But I made historiography section in that article to remove this idea exactly.

Also the state of "Freedom of speech" in Iran is confusing. It depends on who, where and when says something. Thus you can say something but the other one can't. You can say something in university but not in public. And it changes from time to time. For example in the case of battle of Karbala since 20th century some religious scholars -Ahl Hadith and Mutakkalems- and then academicians have started to criticize the story and tried to remove distortions. I'm sure that there isn't any other issue in our ancient history which has been criticized more. The result of this trend is some careful narrations which have published publicly in Persian and Arabic. But we can't speak in public easily not because of the government but because of public faith.

But I insist that you should show some academic references which support your untrustworthy in some issues.--Sa.vakilian 11:28, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Please look at Battle of Karbala#Examining Abu Mikhnaf. And there other references in Duech, Persian and Arabic. --Sa.vakilian 11:37, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Honor killing and wife beating

Recently I downloaded a few scholarly papers from library on Honor killing and interesting all of these journals don't quote Qur'an or hadith rather they deal this problem purely from cultural point of view. Secondly, I read this article on Domestic voilence in Muslim societies (a scholarly journal article), and the author concludes:

The Qur’an offers Muslim men who are justifiably upset with their wives’ conduct ( as defined above), a graduated solution to deal with their frustrations and anger. At its final stage, the solution is similar to that Job was shown to release him from his oath. But the Qur’an also shows Muslims the way to become better Muslims and human beings by living in accordance with the ideal of marital relations, or end the relationship amicably. The Qur’an states very clearly: “ The parties should either hold together on equitable terms or separate with kindness.” (2:229) Thus, the Qur’anic approach to the problem of husbands hitting their wives aims at eliminating such behavior altogether, but it takes into account the very nature of human beings, the complexity of their emotions, and the need for “a gestation period” for them to achieve a higher stage of development. It also helps them reach that higher stage through a series of prescribed behavior aimed at self-control and anger management, and by describing and exhorting by words and the example of the Prophet that blissful higher stage of marital life.

What are you comments? As we have had this discussion before as well. TruthSpreader 00:44, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Devanagari Aum

Hi Zora. Please see the article mantra. There's a section that describes a dubious theory (see para starting with "The symbol of Om contains of three...") for the meaning of the Devanagari symbol for Aum, and my request that it be verified with additional sources has led to all kinds of misunderstandings. Such a theory could be notable only if held by a majority or a significant minority or even a single notable person. The article sounds as if the Aum symbol was designed keeping this in mind, while the symbol clearly comes from merging the devanagari "अ" (A) "ऊ" (U) and "ँ" (M) characters and not by joining semicircles and dots symbolizing various things. Besides the devanagari symbol, we have symbols in various languages, like the Tamil symbol on right (and Tibetan, Chinese, Gurmukhi, etc). The theory of semicircles is elegant, but is not given by a scholar or a religious leader, but a Nitin Kumar, an employee of an online store that sells these Aum motifs . Aum derives its importance from the three syllables, the vibrations they generate, not its notation used to denote it in Devanagari script (which is less than 800 years old.) Read also the introduction of the very same article, which is very well written. It mentions how mantras like Aum are all about sound symbolism. It also says:

For many cultures it is the written letters that have power -- the Hebrew Kabbalah for instance, or the Anglo-Saxon Runes. Letters can have an oracular function even. But in India special conditions applied that meant that writing was very definitely inferior to the spoken word."

I see this semicircle hypothesis in direct contradiction of all this. It's one of those elegant theories I'd love to believe too, but certainly doesn't conform to the facts. deeptrivia (talk) 08:20, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Zakir Naik

Hi. I am getting ready to insert stuff there relating to his pseudointellectual claims of prophet Muhammad being in the Vedas and the fact that this is unsupported by mainstream scholarship. Did you ever add this before and it got deleted by Islamic Fundamentalists? Rumpelstiltskin223 19:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Well neither is Oak very important. He is mostly a fringe lunatic and nobody really listens to him anyways. Even most Hindutvavadis consider him flaky.Rumpelstiltskin223 04:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Nobody's defending Oak. Maybe if Oak's so-called critics spent more of their energy debunking Oak instead of attacking Hindus and laughing at them when they get blown up by terrorists then this problem would not happen. Rumpelstiltskin223 10:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

re: Talk:Islam in the United States

About this -your comment about "piling on". I'm sorry that you felt that way, that wasn't my intention. I just figured that given the debate, Getaway might have a problem with adherents.com so that's why I asked about it's reliability. Sorry, I didn't mean to stress you out. <<-armon->> 23:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Karbala

Dear Zora, Would you mind removing POV from the article. Farhoudk 19:37, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you indeed. Please see its talk page, my answers in "POV tag". Farhoudk 14:21, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Partition of India/ Personalities

Dear Lady,

I have given glimpses to your contributions and presumably is convinced that you are definitely a great contributor and as such objectivity is innate in you. But then again, for what reason you are deleting Suhrawardy's name from the list of personalities in the history of partition? Don't you believe that he, as the Chief Minister of Bengal, played a vital role in securing Pakistan from the Britons???. Well, his role was indeed crucial and without his infamous pioneering role in the Direct Action Day in Calcutta as well as in whole of Bengal, creation of Pakistan would have been difficult, if not a distant dream.

A second thought is poping up in my mind. Are you suffering from Anti Bengali cognitive dissolution? If so, I have nothing to say. I wish you could and would correct me if I am wrong.

Warmest regards,

Hossain Akhtar Chowdhury 10:38, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Zora,

Thanks a lot for your long clarification for which I was awaiting. I am, indeed, very sorry for labeling you as anti-Bengali, which I am convinced now, you are not.Please pardon me for the mistake.

For keeping the list short, we can definitely go upto top 10, right?(...and what is the big difference between 9 and 10?)As such I am again inserting Suhrawardy on the list. I sincerely wish you will not move and argue against it.

Best wishes,

Hossain Akhtar Chowdhury 05:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Regadring the Edip Yuksel article

Dear Zora, why did you delete the part with "Pima Community College". Although this was not put on by me before you just remove it because his website yuksel.org doesnt mention it aint the right way. There are many details of his lif not placed on tht website. Have you actually written to the "Pima Community College" and asked them? If after that you wldve found tht the info is wrong, then everything wld be fine. Thnx.

Collapsed (-ible) long synopsis section

Hi Zora, since we last discussed about it, my suggestion became technically possible and is now to see and discuss in WP Films talk. If you care to comment, it would surely help us. Hoverfish Talk 22:47, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

A short history of Pakistan

Hi since you insisted on letting this book in Partition of India reading list.. me and Rumpelstiltskin checked up on the book on JSTOR. It has been torn to shreds by peer reviewers for virulent anti-Hindu hate see A Short History of Pakistan. I hope you agree to removing this book from Partition of India reading list... Amey Aryan DaBrood 14:37, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Zora if millions of people buy into the book's POV then god save Pakistan... balancing out one POV with another isnt the best way to go about getting to NPOV. Misplaced Pages articles shouldnt be POV dumps... By your own arguments, it is possible for Rumpelstiltskin or some other guys to cite Voice of India books everywhere. Hindutva POV is suscribed to by over half the voters in India! Amey Aryan DaBrood 18:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Partition of India

Regarding this post of yours to Ambroodey , I find it puzzling that you defend biased Pakistani nationalist books so assiduously, yet constantly revert Muslim League Attack on Sikhs and Hindus in the Punjab 1947 from Partition of India. If you claim that both Hindu and Muslim POV's belong there then both these books must necessarily belong there. Why such persistent double standards? Rumpelstiltskin223 02:21, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

He's got a point there.--D-Boy 19:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Khalid bin Walid Discussion

You said:" As for POV pushing -- yes, the Islam-related articles are in bad shape. We have Sunni-Shi'a wars, Salafi-traditionalist wars, rabid anti-Muslim bigots, and Muslims who don't even take usernames, just delete anything critical of Islam or Muhammad and add PBUHs and RAs everywhere. Sigh. It's very hard to keep things neutral, and to keep one's own balance. It's a daily struggle for me to keep my temper and I don't always succeed. "

Heh heh, yeah it is completely beyond me; why some people are emotional about their beliefs! But I did notice that you are the sound of reason in many articles. Hope you continue to be so. I did not want to write this on the discussion page, since it is personal. I think. Oh, there is something you should know about Arab culture (yes ARAB, not Muslim, culture); they are hot-headed <-> very, very, very, extremely, shockingly, stupidly, terribly, stunningly emotional about their beliefs. No excuse, its true, but at least an explaination. So...you stay cool XD Unflavoured 11:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Muhammad/Mediation

Just to notify that mediation has renewed at the Muhammad article, after a delay due to Ars Scriptor's leaving, in case you still wanted to participate. I'll be the mediator, but I may call in help from someone more experienced later. | AndonicO 13:32, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Missing Indian films

I have started compiling the entire list of Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Films/List of films without article/List of missing Indian Films please help out. Other missing lists can be created by industry in India e,g List of missing Bollywood films etc. The lists are accessed from imdb and each one can be checked for notability or suitability for wikipedia levinga finely tuned list of missing films. Existing film articles should be removed from the list. Soo I will get around to compiling an entire list of Indian feature films ordered by year of release as you have done with the Bollywood films as with List of Argentine films etc. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 14:35, 20 January 2007 (UTC

OK as yet I won't make a list of the Indian films in chrono order but the missing film articles are essential and fit in with my other work. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

If I was going to create the Indian filmogrpahy in year and date order I guarantee you it would not document every one of the 2000 films every year. I bet not even half of those are of particular notability - only the most notable films would be documented anyway. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey I am just about to add a film from the list which a member of your project suggested. The idea of missing films is to root out what is missing and add them to wikipedia. I see plenty of point in contributing missing articles to wikipedia Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey please give me a chance! I am not compiling a missing list for the sake of it. I just started Ab Dilli Dur Nahin. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Aag (film), Aao Pyaar Karen and Zameer: The Awakening of a Soul was started yesterday sorting out Shilpa Shetty's films.

"its better to do work"? I have't contributed 35,000 edits to wikipedia and not done any work mate! Work and contributing new articles to the project and provinding info is what I am about Category:Argentine films was empty and Category:Argentine film directors when I started. It looks as though I'll have to to show you who I am and my capabiltities. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:25, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

There we go. Film number 1 started from my "pointless list". Aa Ab Laut Chalen. I hope it is cateogrized appropriately for Indian cinema Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:00, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Content Removal

Please do not delete sections of text or valid links from Misplaced Pages articles, as you did to Shilpa Shetty. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you.
Sorry to have to do this, but after discussion at Talk:Shilpa Shetty and several requests to find rationale in WP policies, this CR could be seen as vandalism. Ekantik 04:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I have started a number of films for Shilpa Shetty Zameer: The Awakening of a Soul Auzaar, Chhote Sarkar, Himmat, Hathkadi and Aao Pyaar Karen. I will start the remainders in the coming days. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 14:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Joseph Vijay

Hello Zora,

I am Sai, the administrator of Actor Vijay's Official fans site (http://www.vijaynet.com). I see that you deleted the site from the external links of Joseph Vijay page. And the reason u've given is there is no evidence that it is recognized by the actor and an irritating flash promo. Well, what proof do you want that its recognized by the actor? Check this this page http://www.vijaynet.com/mul/svideos.php . The videos at the end have the actor himself officially launching the site (Video), the second last video is that of his father officially announcing the site to the fans assembled and in one of the videos, the actor himself says that Vijaynet.com provides all the latest news about him, his functions, etc. If you want evidence, ask a Tamil friend of yours to check the site again and its videos and then come to a conclusion. We are officially recognized by Actor Vijay and no one can deny that! I felt since you guys are doing a good job of creating an encyclopedia, the presence of the link to our official site would do good.

For info

You might or might not have something to say on Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Aminz. Best, Palmiro | Talk 23:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Ekantik

Hello, Zora, I commented over at the Village Pump. Best regards, --Plumcouch 00:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Tongan

Hello Zora. I have seen you can speak Tongan. Can I ask you for help? User:Grutness recently created several stubs about islands of Tonga, I helped him with that. Next day anonymous IP from New Zealand have written to us some stuff in Tongan we do not understand. :) Can I ask you for translation? Thank you. - Darwinek 15:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for response. Mysterious materials follow:

1. KO HAI E TE'EPILO KO ENI. HEHEEEEEEEEEEE? Tuku aa 'e fie me'a he wikipedia moe fakalangata'aki, okay (lol)... Ka ke mafuke o talangofua hoiiiiiiiiii.
2. HOIIIIIIIII..... lahi etau lea he puaka ofu ko eni he fa'a fakatonutonu. lmao Vava'u wahhhhht.........

Thank you very much. - Darwinek 10:15, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Salman01

I keep on telling him to stop adding honorifics and he just continues. He also seems to be adding copyvios to multiple pages - Zaynab bint Ali included. KazakhPol 04:36, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Zora, Thanks very much for commenting on my RfC page. I appreciate it very much! Thanks! --Aminz 22:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

(If you have time) Please vote in the survey on this proposed move

http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Valiyat-e_faqih_%28book_by_Khomeini%29#Survey

Valiyat-e faqih → Hokumat-e Islami : Valiyat-e faqih

Thanx--Leroy65X 23:09, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Joseph Vijay

Sorry for that, Zora. Well, we will try to have him officially recognize the website. For your information, no actor ever has exclusive control over a website. Most of the official websites of actors are those which are officially recognized by the actors. And the actors dont go on recognizing a lot of sites like that! They pick one site, and back it all the way! Anyways, we will try to have our actor "Vijay" officially endorse the site through a video and then get back with you!

Joseph Vijay

Well, thats ok. The site gets good traffic from Google (for the most important keyword related, it is the #1 site).. But since you guys are building an excellent encyclopedia, I thought that adding it here would make people know more about it. Well, thanks for the time taken to reply to the messages. I have made some other changes to a movie featuring my actor. Please check out my history and say if I have done the right changes.

Sari as part of WikiProject Bangladesh

Hi Zora, I added WikiProject Bangladesh tag to Sari so that members of this wiki project can put effort to improve this article and make this a "Featured Article". This is by no way an attempt to "Nationalize" this topic - this is just an improvement drive.

Sari is the main clothing of Bangladeshi women and it is an integral part of Bangladeshi culture - not to mention some of the most popular sub-class of shari (eg Dhakai, Jamdani) are originated from Bangladesh.

So, I see absolutely no harm in keeping it within the scope of WikiProject Bangladesh. If WikiProjectIndia or WikiProject Sri Lanka want to include this article as well - they are very much welcome.

I agree with you that this is not primarily a "Bangladesh related" topic. Hence I have moved the tag to the bottom of the page.

- Arman Aziz 07:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Regarding your second comment: You are making a mistake by considering WikiProject tags as "Nationalist" tag - these are tags made by a group of people who want to include the article in their "improvement drive". Please note - the tag is NOT added to the main article - rather it is added to the discussion page. The sole purpose of this discussion page is to facilitate wikipedians to improve the article.

If there are tags of several wiki projects at the discussion section I don't see any problem with that what so ever - it will only help improve the article. - Arman Aziz 08:44, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Zora, I think tagging talk pages with project tags has become a standard part of Wikiproject maintenance. Of course, if you are concerned about visual aspects (or territorial marking aspects :) ), there are markups in the tags which can render the tag to a minute version of it. These tags actually help maintain projects ... there is a bot that updates project statistics, to do lists etc. with the help of these tags. So, I guess the project tags, perhaps in a smaller, less visually irritating format, are ok. Thanks. --Ragib 04:52, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Get Your Facts Straight

Look it up again, Zora. I was the one who was taking out the personal opinions. Why would you accuse me of something so immature, when if you had actually checked, you would have noticed that I clearly removed other people's crap. You're really a jerk for accusing me of vandalism when I am only trying to help an article that has nothing to do with me. I expect an apology.

I'm referring to the Top Bollywood Films article for which you falsely accused me of vandalizing.

--RPaleja 04:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Problem

Hello, im sure your busy but I need some advice. Shez is back to editing and if you look at these , , , you'll see that he has been calling me all sorts of things.

Also just to prove his stupid point he changed the credit order on the Veer-Zaara page so that I would change it back. Frankly I feel this is wasting my time as well as other editors, cuz I think we've got better things to do then to chase Shez around. I mean that's literally messing about with the articles. I feel he is attacking me by calling me a hypocrite etc. For me its quite shocking because no one has said that to me since I've been on wikipedia. What do you think of this? Can I complain about his behaviour because to be honest I've been quite orderly with him and I don't think I can be bothered to talk to him about this. I don't see why I should have to answer back to someone who is that rude to me. Need some advice. Thanks. -- Pa7 10:43, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Zora, thank you for your reply. For now I might just ignore him but if he does carry on then yes I will have to go for admin help. Oh yes, thanks for your really nice compliments. We'll talk some more on this issue. Thanks again. -- Pa7 18:24, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

People

People, stop talking about me behind my back, I don't like this one bit. Confront me please but stop spreading news that I don't know how to talk. Pa_7 was the one who started it and now somehow, it's my fault. She was the one who changed the cast order for HDJPK. Witnessed it. Go in history even though we agreed on IMDB format which I don't like but I thought we had an agreement. If only we could use the cast as by film but no, you guys want to be ridiculous. But if you do, then do follow the imdb rule. Why didn't Pa_7 changed rani over preity when it came to that page but if i change the opposite on veer-zaara page, she wud've quickly responded. How clever? Is this not Preity favoritism or what? She added 30 references on that page in one day. 50 now. And if I add two on Rani, it's called favoritism. You guys are funny. Anyway, I have to report this one guy or girl User: 84.229.180.85 has been violating wikipedia rules and regulations. He or she has been adding to the Lux Filmfare Chart which was an old award. He/she believes, female actresses won two years because they were new, a Lux Award and a Debut Award, but mind me, I hav Filmfare '98 and Preity Zinta won a Debut Award, not a Lux Filmfare Award which was last given to Sonali Bendre. Maybe he's confused with the Lux Zee Cine Award. Anyway, just tell him/her he/she is wrong. I've tried. Thanks. -- shez 10:47, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

K3G

I'm not sure what you're talking about. They pretty much add three or four more informative sentences to the article which aren't a bore to read. The English isn't as bad as you are going on about. Nobleeagle 05:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

INCINE bios

Hi Zora, can you take a look at Ajith again please? BTW, I have put an anon lock on that Rajesh Khanna page and will do the same for Abhishek Bachchan if this goes on. Thanks, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:09, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

rv - pious edits by Khalidkhoso, inappropriate

Dear Zora i wrote source too but still clean up my material ? wat is wrong?

Khalidkhoso 08:38, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

i think you should have talked then revert my artilce and there is nothing i have add from my side?i come with source and i have books and still if you want to reveart then talk before it. Please

Khalidkhoso 08:41, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

What do u mean by unreferenced?why should fallow Haleem from the Oxford University Press? I given you source. Yes i had copy paste to prove my point.2nd thing those verse were taken from this.www.harunyahya.com.I know wikipedia is not islamic site neither it is christanic or jewish.I have source and i am writing from source so there is no point that i will let you revert it.i am reverting ur artilce back as u did with mine.if u reach any conclusion then lemme know .Before 3rules of edit was

Khalidkhoso 08:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I know this is not Islamic site but when you are referring some one, you should look for source and Big Source for Muhammad(Peace Be Upon him)is Islam? I think you agree on this? Do not you. BTW I will come again on article and if u need source I will scan that book for you. Will send it to until then Bye

Khalidkhoso 14:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

i think i better To be here.Yeah i make many mistakes when i am in hurry and here are many users who can take care of it.Well thanks for ur comments on my page. Khalidkhoso 04:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of material at Undergarment article

Please stop. Misplaced Pages is not censored. Any further changes which have the effect of censoring an article will be regarded as vandalism. If you continue in this manner, you will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. Duke53 | 12:14, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Adminship (just a thought ...)

Hello, Zora, I just wondered - with all this vandalism going on lately; why don't you run for adminship? I think they accept you without any doubt and you're a great editor. Aaaand, we don't have much admins on the project. I myself would go for it, but I don't think they'd take me, so why don't you have a try? Best regards, --Plumcouch 23:43, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello, Zora,

it's a pity - yet, I think you're too hard on yourself, really. And as for hating your guts, I think Churchill put it the right way:

Maybe a bit cheesy, but fitting, I think. Anyway, if you change your mind, let me be your nominator. As for my own run-for-admin - I'll think I'll do that next Christmas - will be the heck of a present. :) Best regards, --Plumcouch 00:36, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

XanGo

I've reverted XanGo again. If you see the need to revert, kindly comment at Talk:XanGo#MLS Sponsorship. - Aagtbdfoua 02:30, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Correct Spelling Of Husayn is Hussain

Correct Spelling Of Husayn is Hussain.what do you say About it.

Khalidkhoso 07:06, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Copyright violation: Zaynab bint Ali

Where was the stuff that you removed copied from?

Will (Talk - contribs) 07:07, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you are right. I did a google search on some of the text you removed and it came up exactly on other sites.

Alan Rockefeller (Talk - contribs) 07:22, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

re: Takfiri edit wars

No problem! I reverted a change because it looked attack-ish, then I looked at the history. That's when I realized I'd stepped into a hornet's nest revert war. I left a note at each of the two user's talk pages asking them to take it either to the talk pages, or ask for arbitration. I don't hold out much hope. Regards, Flyguy649 06:19, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

(If you have time) Please vote in this survey on another proposed move

http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Valiyat-e_faqih_%28book_by_Khomeini%29#New_Vote:_Should_title_be_in_Persian_or_English_Translation.3F

from Valiyat-e faqih (book by Khomeini) → to either

Hokumat-e Islami : Valiyat-e faqih (book by Khomeini)

or

Islamic government: guardianship of the jurist (book by Khomeini)

Thanx again Zora, --Leroy65X 17:48, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Muslim History

I'm glad that you are not putting this article up for deletion. I know you have expressed concern at this article. The topic of this article is very important, and this article should be made into a very good one. Perhaps, we (and other users) should do some brainstorming, outline the basic drawbacks of this article, and then set upon improving it.Bless sins 18:10, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

External Link for Sari

May I know why you are removing the Banglapedia article link from the External Link section?-Arman Aziz 04:55, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

So, Sari vs. salwar kameez on the subcontinent which claims "The sari is, without argument, the most graceful form of attire invented by homo sapiens." - is a very well written informative article and the Banglapedia article is a "poorly sourced" one? I am really amazed! Unless you can give me an specific example of which piece of information quoted in Banglapedia is wrong, I am well convinced you are the one being driven by some Nationalistic issues here!-Arman Aziz 05:37, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I have not written the Banglapedia article! I wish I had, because Asiatic Society referred to the leading academicians in the respective area for articles on each topic. Banglapedia is considered one of the most dependable source for reference in Bangladesh and I'm sure the authors have done enough research and will be able to provide references for whatever information they put in there. Banglapedia is the national encyclopedia of Bangladesh and we are lucky that unlike many other established encyclopedias - Asiatic Society has made the entire document accessible through interenet. So, for every topic on which Banglapedia has an articke, wikipedia should have a link on the external link section - this will only increase the quality of wikipedia.

If you have specific concern about any piece of information in that article why don't you spell it out. We can write to Banglapedia for clarification and who knows that may help them to correct their mistakes if any. Blindly removing the link does not help anyone.-Arman Aziz 06:01, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Hadith

It looks a lot better than citing supposedlu uttered, don't you think ? Hope ur not offended, but that was plainly absurd. The wording, I mean. Also, a hadith is usually 'narrated' not 'recorded'. Also people 'pray' and they don't 'pray thus'. This is just grammar, nothing else. Thank you.Unflavoured 06:38, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of whether or not it is ok in your view, this is the way it is sourced in any Islamic text. A hadith narrated by so and so and it says so and so. You mentioned that if it is sourced then it is encyclopediac. You also mentioned that you have many volumes on Islam, as well as that you do not speak any Arabic. These books would presumably be in English. Do they say recorded? Let's not use too much language when a few words would do. "According to hadith which says" is ok. Anyways, it is a very small issue, and if ur satisfied with "recorded" then it is up to you.Unflavoured 06:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Muslim league attacks on Hindus and Sikhs in Punjab

Talk about hypocirsy. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:AMbroodEY#NPOV ). So a Pakistani propoganda sheet is OK for you in bilbiography section for Partition article but this book is all lies huh?.... Even Turks were killed in Armrnian genocide. Yes there was retributive violence against Muslims but that was mostly limited to Punjab. These stories have even been documented in Freedom at Midnight. It pales before the sheer orgy of death and violence let loose by Muslim League on Hindius and Sikhs of West Pakistan. As a Sindhi it was my Al-Naqba, my holocaust. As for the notability of this book, well I did find this book in my local county library (Surrey Heath County Council libraries). Even Spencer cites this book in one of his bestselling works. It is even in UCLA and Univ. of Virginia reading lists for partition.... Moreover its author Gurbachan_Singh_Talib a Benaras Hindu University lecturer was awarded Padma Bhushan, India's highest civilian honour by very 'secular' Congress govt. in 1985. Do you think a Sikh could be spewing Hindutva propoganda in 1950? when RSS was still banned.... Additionally the book has been published byShiromani_Gurdwara_Prabandhak_Committee which is equivalent to Sikh vatican.

Mam, for the last time stop seeing Hindutva conspiracy everywhere. Amey Aryan DaBrood 17:11, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Kurta pictures

Thanks for the compliment about the Kurta pictures! Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:47, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Google Hits

Shalwar Kameez receives more hits(730,000) than salwar kameez. I in good faith assumed you were telling the truth, but i shouldnt have expected anything else from someone who felt "insulted" by being called a Pakistani. 198.7.249.101 16:14, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

That proves nothing. I should still get more results for salwar kameez, as that is the more "common word" in english. If the only reason shalwar kameez gets more hits is because of kameez, then shouldnt logically salwar kameez get more. 198.7.249.101 19:44, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Proofing

Shouldn't you be proofing? Get on the ball! (or maybe you're don?) gren グレン 20:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Getting the "Rashad Khalifa" article locked

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Peace be upon you Zora,

Some background on me: I'm 18, I live in Canada, and I strive to submit myself to God in everything I do. You might not remember, but I was engaged in an "edit war" of sorts with you and with others over the Rashad Khalifa article. My behavior was, at almost all times, entirely unbecoming of a submitter to God. There is no excuse and no compromise when it comes to killing our egos, repenting to God, and striving to reform ourselves. As such, this is not only a request, but also an apology. May God please forgive and guide all believing men and women, and guide me to be counted among the believers.

Some background on my request: Rashad Khalifa was God's messenger. Powerless when he was here, and powerless now. All he did was deliver some information from God, that we may follow God's guidance (Quran) as it is meant to be followed. Now, not everyone believes this. And, in accordance with God's guidance (Quran), there is no compulsion in religion (Quran 2:256). Since God's messenger departed this world, many people have claimed messengership. Ahmad Nishitoba is one such person. He has absolutely nothing to do with submission to God, or Rashad Khalifa. If someone wakes up tomorrow and claims to have some relation to Jesus or Muhammad, will he be allowed to put his personal website as an "external link" on those Misplaced Pages articles? No. God willing, I pray that we will remain objective and apply consistent logic when contributing to, monitoring, and editing articles.

And now it is worse. Mr. Nishitoba is now vandalizing the Rashad Khalifa article every single day.

I would like to have the article locked to your edit of **12:50, 31 January 2007**. My email address is david . a . 19 @ gmail . com

Please contact me,

--Davidaitken 17:34, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Kurta

Hi, I've added some text to the Kurta page (Styles section, both above and below the pictures). Since I haven't done any descriptive writing about clothes, I don't know if I've done an adequate job or not. Could you please take a look at the text and copy edit? Thanks! Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:40, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Great copy edit! Am on a slow connection, will reply at length tomorrow. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 02:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Traffic Signal

I think this movie was accalimed highly by the reviews on indiafm and other reviews.Thanks for reminding me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aung Phyoe (talk • contribs) 06:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

Dear Zora, you input is required at Talk:Muhammad/Mediation. They have create a new section at the bottom of page where you need to reply in front of your name. Thanks. --- ALM 11:27, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree that my revisions on Rajesh Khanna's page were depreciative. That's just as simply as I can put it. Further, if, in the future, you disagree with changes made to a page (and feel you do so for valid, logical reasons), please mention as much on the discussion page of the article in question; this way, at least the opinions of others, as well, can be integrated into where to take the article. Thank you.

(Commando303)

Removing Semi-Protection

Sorry, I wasn't aware that non-admins. are not allowed to remove semi-protection from articles. The only reason I did it is that I felt Rajesh Khanna's is not a "high-traffic" or "highly-targeted-for-vandalism" kind of page, and that removing the semi-protection would encourage (i.e., enable) more people to contribute to and expand the article. I wasn't aware of the "ID Khan" situation. Thanks.

(Commando303)

Battle of Karbala

I tried to improve it and make it neutral. Please take a look at the article again and let me have your opinions in its talk page. Best. Farhoudk 07:06, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Your origin

I think you belong to Lucknow? or related area?.User talk:Yousaf465

I need a conformation statement from you please

Hi,I don't think we've really talked to each other before.

my reason for messaging is because I recall you mentioning on WP:ANI that an indian admin had added some Indian tags to Iranian history articles which offended Iranian users.

I already know that they've done it for Afghanistan and Pakistan(Pakistan articles have unfortunately suffered the most from being the most frequent victims for indian tags).

The reason I want to add the statement from you is because I want to add the offence caused to Iranian users about the Indian tags,but I only remeber it because you had once mentioned it.All I need is a statment on it so i can confirm my claim.You can make the statement here or on my talkpage or yours and I will provide a link.

Thanks alot.I'd appriciate it if you could do so.Best regards.--Nadirali نادرالی

Re: Wow Nice

Yes. Valid criticism should stay. Hope you are fine and doing well. Cheers, --Aminz 10:50, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

XanGo

Whatever got you involved on that page? In any case, all comments in regards to this diff. Why is the second paragraph being removed? Is there a reason to remove its marketing style or to believe it's not true? It is not clear and should be reworded but, I am not sure I see why it needs to be removed (and maybe keeping it could help end the edit war?) Same goes for the President and CFO. Now, I am not sure on what grounds the MLM supporters or whatever you call them are editing. In this version it was a little... not good because it was all block quote... but, after John Broughton's edits I don't really see any justification for this war. gren グレン 11:16, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, about the commissions... Broughton said he was changing it to match the site sourced... if what was cited didn't even match the source then it shouldn't be there... but, I see no problem with adding the commission information if it's correct. gren グレン 11:17, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Even more curious to me... how was that about MLM at all? I read on the talk page someone saying you were against MLM. I don't understand since the issue seems to be does this drink work? gren グレン

Ismailies

But Shi’ahs do not consider Ismailies Shi’ah nor Muslims. Because as far as the topic of Imamate is consider they go against the saying of Islamic prophet Hazrat Muhammad (S.A.W.). Salman 20:20, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Well then I guess you can say in the article that is Ismailies consider Imam Hussain (A.S.) as there second Imam. But you can not say other Shi’ah branches agree with Ismailies. And the source you provided is not good because it is not reliable. A book which is written from a neutral author could help you out. Later Salman 23:45, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Salwar

Can you stop saying that it is a punjabi suit, while removing that it is also called a pathani suit. If you want to put that it is a punjabi suit in the intro fine, but you then have to put that it is also called a pathani suit in the intro. Also only in Afghanistan and Pakistan do both men and women wear the dress everyday. In Bangaldesh and India it is worn mainly by women. Lastly stop mocking Pakistan's position that it is their national dress. The link was provided, and it was one sentence at the end. You cant put that some nations declare that it is their national dress. National dress means that it is worn their every day not that Pakistan owns it. That is a fact, and if you take time to look at the talk page you will see many links including those by Indians stating that it is the national dress of Pakistan. IP198 20:51, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Do 21,600 google hits warrant including in the intro that it is called a punjabi suit? The only reason i want pathani suit included is because you keep on inserting that it is a Punjabi suit. Look at these links , . What exactly is your reason for putting that it is a punjabi suit, besides from google hits? You cant say because it is common in the Punjab, as it is also common in Sindh, Balochistan, Kashmkir, Baltistan. Yet no one calls it a sindhi suit, balochi suit, kashmiri suit, or a balti suit.

Also what is the purpose of this statement but to insult Pakistanis and Afghanis "In some of the countries in which the salwar kameez is worn, it is the preferred garment of both sexes. In India and Bangladesh, it is most commonly a woman's garment." You cant even mention Afghanistan and Pakistan by name. IP198 22:51, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Muhammad/Mediation#Suggestion_.28untainted.29

You voiced your opinion in the original straw poll which has caused some confusion. Please do the same in a new version, Talk:Muhammad/Mediation#Suggestion_.28untainted.29, which should be clear and allow us to better assess consensus. gren グレン 22:14, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Poll on every little issue

Please sign if any of these things applies to your understanding of this issue. Please put you name under all of the options you think would be acceptable. You can sign all or none of these, I'm hoping this will give us a more-fine grained understanding of the issue.

big long quote in Iranian Revolution

Sa.vakilian went to some trouble to translate a long quote by khomeini ("a commandment") for the Iranian Revolution article but it is rather long and may not be following wikipedia form. We created a quotation section at the end that I'm thinking might suit it better. Please weigh in with an opinion at (Any other ideas on how to improve Iranian Revolution would be welcome too.) Thanks --Leroy65X 17:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Saqifah

Aaliyah Stevens made a de facto reversion of your last edit to saqifah. If you ever decide to start an RfC on this user's editing behavior I would be more than happy to certify the basis for a dispute. KazakhPol 02:03, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Sari

Your version is incorrect as you portray the reason sari is out of favor in Pakistan is solely because of the shalwar qamiz. You have to mention that it is viewed as Indian/Hindu. That does not mean that view is correct, but that is viewed as common knowledge in Pakistan.

During Zia-ul-Haq Islamization of Pakistan, the wearing of Sari was replaced completly by the shalwar qamiz. The Sari was described as unislamic. The perception in Pakistan, even today, is that the Sari is an Indian/Hindu dress. Also Pakistan is a muslim country, and most women will not wear the Sari because it shows the midriff. These are the reason why the Sari has fallen out of favor.

Also this statement "and as daily wear by those elderly women who were used to wearing it in pre-Partition India", is also incorrect. Most elderly women do not wear the sari, they wear shalwar qamiz. IP198 19:47, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

These "communal comments" were not written by me. They were proably here before i even started editing Misplaced Pages. I didnt give any references on this, but where are your "reliable" references that is worn by elderly women.

As for this being pattern, i am hoping that was a joke. For the shalwar qamiz article i gave countless links on it being the national dress of Pakistan. You on the other hand stated it was a Punjabi suit with your reference being that you heard the term on desi forums in the UK.

How can you compare me with "Hindutvadis"? Thats really insulting.

Try these links. I dont know if they are "reliable". , , , IP198 21:11, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Keep it up

I occasionally take part in Talk:Muhammad/Mediation (not as much time as I would like as I lack the temperament and time) and I feel you provide a valuable voice. It appears to me far to many people are taking the OMG CENSORSHIP view and don't appear to understand the real issues. I wish you luck in continuing to inject reason into this debate. Cheers Nil Einne 14:49, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Dear sister, please sometime hop in the mediation and help us. Do not leave us alone. regards. --- ALM 19:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

No problem sister. Take a break and I hope to see your around very soon again. You must remember that because of people like you many do not get burnt out and leave this filthy place. Hence we need you around :) --- ALM 11:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

The Prophet Muhammad image dispute

I have a suggestion, based on wiki policies of WP:RS, WP:NPOV, to solve teh dispute over images of Muhammad.

I have put a template here as to how we should resolve the dispute. Please leave a comment regarding this on my talk page. If you like this template please don't put it up yourself. I am looking for some sort of concensus. If you don't like the template please leave a suggestion for improving it.Bless sins 03:32, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Pan-Islamism

Aaliyah Stevens is trying to insist that the caliphate is the only form of Muslim political identity. SlimVirgin is assisting here on the assumption that if I disagree with her, then Aaliyah must be right. Nevermind that dictionary.com contradicts Aaliyah and most of the article has not been sourced. Assitance would be appreciated. KazakhPol 18:38, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey Zora

Just wanted to drop in and say hey, it's been forever since I've seen you and as I recall, you were one of the good ones =). GNU4eva 22:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Shalwar vs. Salwar Redux

Hi, Since you had posted an opinion on the preferred (Misplaced Pages) spelling of this apparel, I was wondering if you could respond to Shalwar vs. Salwar Redux. Thanks. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The Sad, Sad Story of Battle of Badr

OK, so I'm finally clearing out my backlog of stuff to do and Badr has finally come up. WOW! Did that article get messed up. I don't even know where to begin. Vandals, Shia POVers, other Muslim POVers and the occasional Islamaphobe. I'm going to just cut right to the chase and suggest we revert the thing back to its FA status. Ever month or two I review my old articles, and make a minor edit just to signify that I have confidence in the work being done on it. The last time I did Badr was a year ago on March 7. Let's start from here and figure out what edits since then, if any, deserve to be kept. Take your time on this one, since I'd rather be right than fast. Also, should we contact any other editors for help with this? I should be back at K Bay for the week, so I should be available to help out. Palm_Dogg 22:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

When we redo this, it might behoove us to have a copy of Ibn Ishaq, just for references. Any idea where we could get one? Palm_Dogg 23:04, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I've got a friend working on his PhD in Islamic studies at UChicago who's trying to recruit me for Citizendium. Have you heard anything about it? Palm_Dogg 01:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I have an account there... from what I saw it was really slow progress. If you like to write articles with little interference it may be great for (either of) you (I don't tend to write complete articles). However, you have to take the risk that your work will become completely irrelevant not because of vandals and POV warriors but because of the project being a flop. I can't tell if the atmopshere is better there or if it's just because there are so few editors (after months no one had even touched the Islam page). One thing that did worry me a little is the censorship / "family friendly" drive Larry Sanger was pushing. While I don't think it will matter in most places, I think the fact that we have no problem putting explicit things at least on the commons if they are warranted is... maybe a good thing. Although, I do still think we should censor that Muhammad article a little more ;) That's just my observations about Citizendium from... having an account and watching the goings on but not really participating. The respect for expertise some made would be a relief, maybe. gren グレン 03:43, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Filmfare Awards

Hey, I think we should change the year dates for the Filmfare Awards. We should make it one year up for each section. It shows dates of film release not when the award ceremony was held or when the recipient won. It's confusing for some because all other awards are managed how they're supposed to be with years ceremony held not for which year the awards are given. - shez_15

Re: Your message

Hey Zora, it's too bad you're feeling that way... I know how that goes, it just wears you down (why do you think I took a break from here myself?). I hope you feel better, if there's any way I can help out, please tell me. --GNU4eva 11:40, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Shalvar a quick note

The origin of Turkish word "şalvar" is definitely Persian. Shalvar is more common among Kurds who are closer to Persian culture. Until recent times, there were shalvar like trousers worn by Western Anatolian Turks, somehow different and possibly taken from the Balkans, I am unable to provide a clear name or origin for those at the moment. But, upon request, I would be happy to. cs 23:24, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

You can't quit!

Hi Zora, You can't quit now! If you are exhausted, take time off from other pages, but not the clothes pages (despite the sniping on Salwar-kameez). You are the only one on Misplaced Pages who knows how to write about clothes, especially those of the subcontinent. Besides, I just ordered Emma Tarlo's Clothing Matters: Dress and Identity in India, in the hopes—once I've read the book—of expanding some clothes pages, and even starting some, like lahenga. Plus I'm going to be taking some more pictures this weekend. I thought it might be a good idea to actually show the cut on the bias with a closeup.

As for the Salwar-kameez article, I didn't realize that WP:MOS explicitly recommends sticking with the original spelling in cases of US/UK disputes. So, as far as I am concerned, the original spelling (salwar) stays, as long as we point out the different variants early on, which you have done.

Hope you begin to feel better soon! Fowler&fowler«Talk» 02:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Misunderstanding

Zora, it was never my intention to accuse you of lying. If thats the way it sounded to you i apologize. The only reason i even asked for the link was because i could not find it myself. As for you wanting to put salwar/shalwar through the entire article, you changed the Jinnah picture but not the others. I really didnt see how that was fair, so i changed it. In actuality when i was editing under IP 198.7.249.101 i suggested the same idea you accused me of "using the article to propagandize". On the sari article even though i disagreed with you i left it alone, and i even reverted someone who brought religion into it again.

From your comments it seems that my comments were the final straw in your decision to leave. I truly feel guilty, as i think you are a good editor. I was looking at the archives of the meditation of prophet Muhammad, and saw that you were in favor of removing unveiled images of him. As a Muslim i appreciated that. I wouldnt blame you for leaving, i personally feel happier myself when not editing here, but i hope you were just being emotional and decide to come back after a break as Misplaced Pages needs editors like you. Once again i apologize for anything i said which factored into you wanting to leave.

Sincerely, IP198 03:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

P.S - I started writing this before i saw fowlers comments, it just took me a while to finish, so please dont think that my comments had anything to do with his. Also like fowler, i think that the spelling dispute is over, after seeing that link. IP198 03:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

One last thing, if you are exhausted, dont listen to fowler and continue to work on the clothes page. Come back when you feel better, and when you come back you wont have any problems from me. Promise. IP198 03:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Could you take a look at this?

Hi, the last time I wrote to you, you were busy with some garment you were making for you daughter. How's she? And, how're you? I hope you have a bit more time on your hand now. Can you, please, take a look at Image:Riya Book.png? There's a nasty parroting of the first fair use criterion going on there. I don't mind the image getting deleted, but can that happen for a sincere reason? Since I know you took an interest in the past of the article and are a fair evaluator of things, I hope you can shed some lights on this. May be it is I who doesn't understand the first fair use criterion all that well. Cheers. Aditya Kabir 04:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Your exhaustion

Hope you recover from wiki-exhaustion. I know there is a theory that wiki will be dead in five years as its volunteer editors tire of fighting off "marketeers" and vandals. I recently started and just stumbled apon the egregious marketing at Caliphate but I'm not exhausted yet. --Leroy65X 22:48, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Your break

Returning briefly from a long break, I noticed your absence. I do hope you recover soon, WP can do without me but it will have to try much harder to do without you. Hornplease 21:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Ancient histories and modern borders

Hi Zora. I vaguely remember from a year back that you have some opinion on this issue. Please look at Talk:History_of_India#Renaming_.28again.29. Regards, deeptrivia (talk) 15:56, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

University of Chicago

Hi Zora. I learn from your user box that you are a alumna of University of Chicago. I want a little help from you. I have an image, and the copyright belongs to the university. But I am unable to find a way to contact them to waiver the copyright, or make it usable for Misplaced Pages. Can you help me? The image is here: . If you want more explanation, please tell me. PS: reply on my talk page as I am a little busy these days.--Scheibenzahl 10:21, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Was this you?

Hi, Zora. An anonymous user attempting to sign their comment at Talk:The Sarah Jane Adventures added "User:Zora" to their comment. (See here.) Was this you, or was it someone else who wanted to call themselves Zora? If it was you, then I'm sorry to bother you — but if it's not you, I should let the IP know that the name is taken, and they shouldn't sign that way. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 10:32, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, thanks — and don't worry, the IP has now signed up with a different username. I just wanted to make sure that it wasn't you. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 07:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

hey there

Hi Zora,

I saw on Salwar Kameez you said you're leaving...

Please don't!!

The only reason WP is running is because of fair-minded editors like you.

The amount of POV-pushing going on is terrible. The vandals attack like ants on an open bottle of honey. And despite all of that, Misplaced Pages is still here.

We've lost plenty of people. I've been here for almost two years now, although I din't sign up for an account until March last year. Believe me, I've seen a lot of fantastic editors leave. People who I've known personally, who did their very best and got screwed over for it.

Please, take a break if you'd like to, but please do come back.

My apologies if this all seems a little random. As I said, I've been here for quite a while and I've seen you're contributions. We'd all miss you, and miss a great editor.

Regards, xC | ☎ 19:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

We cherish you wherever you carry on the good fight, here or in your w0mb@t identity! --Orange Mike 13:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Desi

Hello,

I've suggested that Desi be merged with South Asian American. I saw your comments in the talk page and thought that you might be interested. --vi5in 16:17, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Please come back soon

I miss you. Please come back. I need your help in User:ALM scientist/Including Muhammad Pictures Against wiki-policies. I wish to file an arbitration case sometime soon. Hope to see your around soon. with best wishes. -- A. L. M. 09:19, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Seconded. You are really missed, here. —Viriditas | Talk 09:29, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Of course we do. --Aminz 09:33, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:CryingIndian.jpg

Hello, Zora. An automated process has found and removed an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, and thus is being used under fair use that was in your userspace. The image (Image:CryingIndian.jpg) was found at the following location: User talk:Zora. This image or media was attempted to be removed per criterion number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media was replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg , so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. Please find a free image or media to replace it with, and or remove the image from your userspace. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 23:12, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Award

		The Editor's Barnstar
		Thanks for your great efforts in Islam article which led to making a FA article. --Sa.vakilian(t-c) --03:03, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Salafism

Help!! there's a big disaster in Salafism and you have to fix it right a way!!!

.... just kidding :-)

Please do look at Salafism article though. As an old wiki hand and veteran of the Salafism article, I think you may appreciate the new version. I think I may have found wording and sourcing that is historically acurate AND won't provoke the salafist hit-and-runners. MezzoMezzo seems to like it pretty well at any rate. --Leroy65X 16:57, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

what do u with your life now a days?

?--D-Boy 22:45, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

From I what I remember, I believe she is writing a book and enjoying what life outside Misplaced Pages has to offer. She was fed up with all the bickering that goes on here. Gizza 02:30, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I didn't ask you. Quit WP:STALKing me or I will report you.--D-Boy 01:35, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

But Gizza (and also myself) have edited this page before, so don't you think he might have this on his watchlist (I do). Or, are you going to accuse me of stalking as well!!! --Ragib 01:41, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I heard this page was where the action was.Bakaman 02:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Nah, we're just trying to argue so that Zora remembers why she left :) Hope you're doing well. --gren グレン 01:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Haabet

Haabet keeps writing gibberish in corset and related articles and it seems that nobody is there to stop it. How come is nobody watching those articles? --83.131.90.223 22:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

MADHUBALA page

Hi Zora I hope you dont mind me writing to you but i recently re wrote and restructered the page on MADHUBALA. I wondered what you thought of it now and am preparted to hear your honest and constructive critiszm. I tired to stick to facts and not include any gossip. I have sited my reference sources having read widely on Madhubala. MAny thanks NAv —Preceding unsigned comment added by Navsikand (talk • contribs) 11:12, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Shahrukh Khan

Shahrukh Khan has received some heavy editing recently. Would you please read over the article and make any necessary changes. Thanks. -- Jreferee 19:19, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Islam and animals

I have another request. The Islam and animals article received heavy editing, which I noticed at WikiRage.com. The article may benefit from a good review and those presently involved in the article may benefit from someone willing to step in the middle to help bring harmony to that article. According to Misplaced Pages Page History Statistics, you are one of the top contributors to Qur'an, so I am hoping you might be able to help. If you have the time, would you please read over the article and perhaps provide some commentary on the talk page. If you need the article to be unprotected to make any changes, please let me know. Thanks. -- Jreferee 15:44, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

She's back! :)

Hey, good to see that you're back! We've done some extensive overhauling of the WP:FILMS project, mainly integrating an advanced structure for task forces, including task force code within the {{Film}} banner. And it looks like integrating WP:INCINE as a task force is getting member support. I was wondering if you might be interested in weighing in; I think you would enjoy the new structure since it frees up the group from project admin responsibilities so that they can spend more of their time actually focused on the work, and gives the group a central resource for larger questions of style guidelines, naming conventions, notability standards, infoboxes, as well as a larger body of editors who can help as neutral arbiters of more contentious issues. But in any case, good to see you are back period, even if you're taking it slow for now. :) Girolamo Savonarola 18:17, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, I respect and understand your decision, and I hope that you enjoy the DP work. I'm not trying to suck you back in or anything, but if you do have any opinion on the matter, though, I'd still be grateful - your prior work for the project has not gone without approving note amongst the community. But I understand if you'd rather not. Nonetheless, if you do ever feel like dipping your toes back into the pond, please know that I'll be glad to hear it. Perhaps the site will have matured enough in the near future so as to facilitate more harmonious and effective editing. :) Best of luck and hope to speak again someday, Girolamo Savonarola 01:51, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Ahwaz territory

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Ahwaz territory. There are question about the truthfulness of the article and whether such a territory exists. Since you contributed to the Ahvaz article, I am hoping that you would consider participating in the Ahwaz territory deletion review to shed some light on whether the Ahwaz territory in fact exists. -- Jreferee t/c 17:44, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of List of Bollywood film clans

A tag has been placed on List of Bollywood film clans, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section G1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent. If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the article (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. Sarvagnya 07:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Stop bitching around

Dear Zora, can you please stop bitching around on wikipedia as you are doing in the Salman Khan page. It is really annoying you know. It seems to me you are a typical fanatic. What you are doing is clearly in bad taste and it is not nice. Please, this is a nice warning from me. Best regards. Sohailstyle 01:51, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

To defence yourself you need not lie. Whatever religion you are your religion doesn't encourage lies. What trouble are you gonna get me into? Well if you report to a moderator it just shows what a coward you are not to face me directly. This is no war with you, please understand, but some things have to get straightened out. Remember this is Misplaced Pages, a free enclycopedia. Whatever you are doing simply sucks. Best regards. -Sohailstyle 15:35, 8 December 2007 (UTC)