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Archive 1 (prior to episode redirect discussions)

Episode Article Redirects

Ok, let's get this rolling, since the upcoming arbcom case on episodes & characters is focusing on actions, not the viability of the policy. I have reviewed the Scrubs episodes and they feature: no real-world context establishing notability, the usual discouraged goulash of plot sumnmaries (see WP:NOT#PLOT and trivia, of course, which we love here per WP:TRIVIA, mais oui c'est si bon! Etc.. Etc... See WP:EPISODES and WP:FICT and WP:N, for further details and the place for comments about how unfair all this is. Are there specific episodes (episode specific award-winning, or significant ratings achievement, etc...) which warrant individual articles per our policies and I have missed? Please so indicate and we'll redirect the rest. Btw, for editors who feel strongly about this kind of stuff, I draw particular attention to: (1) WP:CON - consensus is global not local, so to establish consensus for keeping scrubs episodes, please comment about changing our notability and fiction guidelines, don't post comments here about how the episodes are notable. And (2) at WP:FICT, there's a discussion on how to transwiki information that is discouraged at Misplaced Pages. The Scrubs Wikia is probably the best repository for the trivia, in-universe continuity stuff and other fan-driven details. Eusebeus (talk) 19:08, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Keep the ones in the navbox as sufficiently notable (award winning, etc). Redirect the less for lack of real world context. Will 19:15, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. There may be a few more out there with that match up to them, so I'll give them a look over sometime soon. Notthegoatseguy (talk) 15:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

This is just off the top of my head, but My Five Stages is based around the Five Stages of Grief. Notthegoatseguy (talk) 01:35, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

And what is your point? Do you think that that makes it worthy of having its own article? Also, it is the conclusion of a two-parter, so "My Cabbage" would also require its own article...etc. etc. etc. This is going to be a big project, and deciding what is notable enough to merit its own article is extremely subjective. 71.255.90.58 (talk) 04:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Not true. "My Lunch" is part one of three episodes yet the other two don't have any real world information in it, like My Cabbage. The episode I mentioned has an entire story dedicated to a real world theory. It should stay.Notthegoatseguy (talk) 05:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

And "My Screw Up" is followed by "My Tormented Mentor", but that doesn't make MTM notable. Will 09:46, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. 71.255.90.58 (talk) 05:48, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

• The exercise in determining what merits an individual article is not really that complex. As I note above, awards, unusual ratings or achievements that accrue to a specific episode are certainly grounds for establishing notability. Writing gimmicks may count if they have had enough demonstrable real-world impact; otherwise they should redirect as well. An advantage of redirection is that if any article is later deemed to be notable, it can always be restored. It looks like we have fair agreement on this so I suggest we proceed. Also, please consider weighing in on the upcoming character redirects if you haven't already. The same notability criteria apply. Eusebeus (talk) 14:52, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

My Lunch and My Musical seem to be fine, but none of the other "notable" episodes seem to establish notability. I'm fine for leaving My First Day because pilots are usually well off, but the others need much more to need to stay. Two or three have awards, but they can easily be footnotes or just be placed in the main article. TTN (talk) 15:20, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Not true - they are fine. There's actually another one that has a major award - "My Life in Four Cameras". --Ckatz_spy 09:27, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

If they do not establish notability with a variety of sources, then they are not fine. Awards by themselves are not enough. TTN 23:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

If we could source it to the awards site, that'd be a reliable source for popular reception. Will 23:28, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

My point is while they obviously can be used as notability establishing sources, being the only source is not going to work out. If all we have available is the award, it is better placed as a footnote on the episode list or in a section in the main article. TTN 23:37, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

True. I actually said something to the effect of "one Nielsen rating an episode article does not make" on the episode and character AC (although of course a Hugo or an Emmy is more important than a Nielsen rating from a Wiki point of view). Still, I think that, for the mean time, the ones in the navbox should be given a stay of execution longer than the normal episodes as they are notable, and we can discuss the notability in depth a bit more. Will 00:09, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Eh, I won't make a fuss. So are we about ready to go at this point? TTN 00:18, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I say give other people about twelve to twenty-four hours to throw in their opinions, and then go ahead. Will 00:23, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Ignore TTN, and I for one, will be reverting his vandalism. I do believe the articles need to be improved, however, there is not the urgency that TTN is self imposing. It's interesting how they've rehashed Episode into what they want, then they're trying to force a suggestion down our throats as law. Just revert him. --Maniwar (talk) 23:15, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Note Many editors have pointed out that WP:EPISODES is a suggestion and not a rule. Moderators have also commented on it.

So are the summaries being expanded or left as they are? Because some of these summaries are only one sentence long. BioYu-Gi! 20:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Featured music

Should we include the featured music in the LOE with the episode merges? For some episodes, such as "My Choosiest Choice of All" or "My Way Home", it's actually rather important to the episode. Will 13:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

• Yes, I think so. I have brought that info into the LOE for at least one episode. Eusebeus 13:38, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikia

• • I checked the scrubs wikia (http://scrubs.wikia.com/Main_Page) to see if a transwiki would be in order and they have already ported or amplified on the individual episode & character information here. I suggest, then, that since the information already exists in tremendous detail over there, we not worry to much about which tidbits to port over to the LOE. The same pertains to the character pages. Eusebeus 15:13, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

What if insted of having each episod its own page, make pages for each eason with summeries and trivia. and keep notible episode pages —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.178.72.187 (talk) 21:14, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

It would be nice to see genuine merges rather than simplistic redirects to the List page. The links between, say "My Screw Up" and "My Tormented Mentor" could be discussed in prose. So, please put effort into your "merges." The JPS 11:01, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Why does each episode have an article?

Why does each episode of Scrubs have an article? The summaries are enough. If each episode of Scrubs has an article than each Pokemon and each character from Spongebob Squarepants should have their own articles. 65.101.237.106 (talk) 23:37, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Not enough people who are able to contribute to wikipedia apropriatly are interested in those shows i guess. Although a lot of grown-ups also watch spongebob, which made me wonder why there are no pages for each character there yet. I like reading some episode pages to understand certain references or appearences or whatnot. Other people do as well. So just leave it and turn to those things that brighten your day 217.82.11.175 (talk) 23:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The list is currently in the process of being merged. 68.77.91.91 (talk) 14:26, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Why shouldent all scrubs episods have an artical?I think if one wants ti look through these pages to find a favorite episode or mabe a favorite character in an episond the should be as they were december122007 creampuff3333 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.178.72.187 (talk) 21:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I also object to the summarisation of episode pages on any show, or at least those with two seasons or more. This turns the helpful resources into petty shadows of what they used to be, and the summaries are completely useless. Can we please stop this madness once and for all? --Riche (talk) 15:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Try here - http://scrubs.wikia.com/Main_Page Eusebeus (talk) 15:50, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

The mere fact you had to give me that link (and that there were no obvious links on Misplaced Pages itself) proves that the Wikia system doesn't work, added to which is the fact that the Wikias are unlikely to be as updated or have such a large userbase (or quality of articles), that Wikias (in general) lack any support by Firefox search bars or similar useful apps, that the page formats are awful, and collapse completely when the page is beyond about three printer pages in length (in both Firefox and IE, the former of which is practically unusable), and the unlikelyhood of them appearing in a decent position in search engine rankings. I find it amusing that pages such as episode pages are considered poor quality when they are far more readable than many other pages, in particular those on scientific subjects that seem to assume that (apart from the summary, in most cases, which is normally easier to read but more limited than the article) the reader has a full knowledge of every subject mentioned, which simply defies belief in terms of research. Misplaced Pages is a fantastic resource, but deletionism seems to be taking away its primary benefit over other encyclopedias, that being that you can type in a topic you are looking for and in 99.9% of cases there will be an article for it that at least acts as a reasonably up-to-date NPOV (which is particularly useful on subjects otherwise plagued with bias if they were to be searched for on Google) starting point for further learning. Due to the amount of effort required (and the impossibility for those who aren't admin) to return a page from deletion, and the ease with which pages are deleted without consideration, Misplaced Pages is losing that usefulness. --Riche (talk) 18:29, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Well listen, I think you are making a number of very good points and I think you make them well, even if I persist in disagreement with you. I would strongly urge you then to weigh in on the centralised debate. Remember, consensus is defined globally not locally so the best place to note this is at the WP:FICT talk page where there is an ongoing discussion. Consensus changes, but it does not change here at the Scrubs page, while remaining intact elsewhere. I would recommend you (1) read through (or at least glance through) the archived debates at the Fict talk page before weighing in since many topics have already been extensively discussed. And (2) I suggest you avoid slurs like deletionism. I know what you mean, and I suspect that you are not trying to be insulting, but when you have a good point, which you do about wikia, it is best not to distract from it through infelicitous phraseology. Eusebeus (talk) 18:58, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

OH MY GOD somebody deleted the episode links!!!

why!!!!!!! no!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul Fuster (talk • contribs) 04:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Why remove the episode pages?

Why have the pages been delted?

The summaries are not enough, many ppl will want a more detailed recap of eahc episode, want to know what music featured in the episodes or even want to know what tv show or film they were making a joke at —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.118.173 (talk) 16:33, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

All I'm going to say is, what a moronic thing to do. --82.37.32.93 (talk) 19:07, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed.Hypershadow647 (talk) 21:09, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree too! I loved the episodes summaries here, and it's a real pain to have to go between Misplaced Pages and Wikia. There was more than just summaries - it's themes, trivia (which I do like to know) and lots of other information that is otherwise hard to come by or spread out over lots of other sources - which at the very least, the episode articles link to. Jess Gordon (talk) 02:35, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Delete Episode Links?

I am so pissed off at this. There's tons of other shows with separate episode articles. What is the point of merging anyway? Is the whole God damn world going to explode if Misplaced Pages isn't fucking sparkly shiny clean? Jesus Christ, get a life. My opinion? Leave Misplaced Pages as is. Don't change anything, because people like myself will go here trying to read about the latest episode of Scrubs, only to be met by a fucking pointless redirect that shouldn't even exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.176.169.81 (talk) 05:22, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I tried to reverse it but the links went no where so it didn't matter. PUT THE PAGES BACK! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.184.201 (talk) 07:07, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

This has pissed me off too, i enjoyed reading the episode summaries on these, if there is trouble with unsourced notes and trivia take them out and leave the episode summaries in as per say, house or heroes. Put them back —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.2.89.52 (talk) 15:13, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Where else are we supposed to find out which songs are in which episodes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laynethebangs (talk • contribs) 20:22, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

• Apparently, this is explicitly disallowed under Misplaced Pages guidelines. Yes, it's draconian and silly. I'm not even sure why it's disallowed. But it is. --Roguelazer (talk) 20:36, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

From what I tell, the "no plot summaries" rule has been applied all over Misplaced Pages, as per the Television Show Episode Guidelines. A casual glance shows that List of Psych episodes and List of Stargate SG-1 episodes has been similarly trimmed, although the anti-plot people haven't yet erased List of The Simpsons episodes or List of Stargate Atlantis episodes (to pick random television shows that I've looked at episode summaries from in the past month). I'm not sure why this has happened, and, frankly, I find it ridiculous, but it has happened. :-( --Roguelazer (talk) 20:36, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

• Calm down people. Misplaced Pages's main focus is on the real-world significance of its topics and while it is possible to point to other places that seem to fail that standard, that does not lessen the need to bring existing content into line with our policies. (See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS) However, the good news is that the scrubs wikia (http://scrubs.wikia.com/Main_Page) has all the plot-summary & soundtrack goodness that you need, including an exploration into the minutiae of the Scrubs universe to satisfy even the most die-hard fan. I will add a link and a mention to the list article now. On behalf of those of us who merged the info, I apologise that such a link was not provided before. Eusebeus (talk) 20:49, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Scrubs Wiki linked not updated in over a month 69.183.162.98 (talk) 05:04, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Alright, thank you. I'm glad this could be handled noble-ly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laynethebangs (talk • contribs) 21:25, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm an Italian journalist and writer, and I was finding all the data in the Scrubs episode summaries very useful and precious, while I'm writing a book about Scrubs. Obviously, it was not just a matter of "plot summaries" (and no, Scrubs Wikia is not even near to have all the data of the deleted summaries. Not near at all, the episode list is fairly blank down there). It was shared knowledge about pop culture inside Scrubs. I was thinking the entire Misplaced Pages project was about sharing knowledge. I think the day someone will start to decide what is "important" or "right to care about" for others, that will be (or already is) a very sad day for Misplaced Pages as a whole. Kumagoro-42 (talk) 21:47, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, i just want to do what other editors haven't, and apologise to all you readers of the project who have come here and are upset about the missing episode pages, i'm sorry this has happened to you, since you are the people who are missing out here, i wish this hadn't happened. Anyway the pages are still available to view, and heres how, type the name of the specific episode page you want to view, e.g. My Overkill, into the search box. that will bring you here. go to the top of this page, and in small letters underneath the title page, it will say "redirected from My Overill. Click on this link, and you will be taken to a page with a link to this page. go to the history tab, and view a version before TTN's redirect. There you are--Jac16888 (talk) 21:59, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

• It might be a good idea, given the comments above, to transwiki to wikia the scrubs episode pages that are currently incomplete. The ones I had checked, however, were pretty extensive. Eusebeus (talk) 22:10, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

This entire decision was agreed upon by very few people. Very undemocratic. Pathetic choices made by pathetic people. This sucks. --69.117.172.143 (talk) 03:55, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: individual episode articles

1. What Happened?

Following a discussion in October & November 2007, it was determined that the vast majority of Scrubs episode articles did not and could not aspire to the standards for fictional topics as they are elaborated at Misplaced Pages's policies on notability & secondary sources, its prohibition against plot summaries and trivia, and the general guideline for writing about fictional topics. Full debate details can be accessed in the Archive.

2. So are all the Episode Pages lost?

No. At the time of the merge it was determined that most of the existing information at Misplaced Pages also existed at the scrubs wikia site, which can be accessed at http://scrubs.wikia.com/Main_Page. In the event that you find an episode article at the Scrubs Wikia which does not contain complete in-universe information, it is possible to transwiki the information from the original Misplaced Pages article to the Scrubs wikia. You can either be bold and do it yourself, or else leave a note here indicating which episode(s) are incomplete.

3. This sucks. Why are you ruining Misplaced Pages for everyone?

We are part of the Imperial Cabal of Evil Deletionists, and the campaign to ruin Misplaced Pages is simply a first step toward the larger goal of Total World Domination. As part of that campaign, we use Misplaced Pages's policies, such as its prohibition against plot summaries, and guidelines, such as the need for real-world context, to fashion crude but effective weapons and incidentally to promote encyclopedic standards. Also, Misplaced Pages consensus has long held that this is not a fan site, that information needs to focus on real-world impact. While some readers may feel that the prevalence of fan material here mitigates against its removal generally, that argument has been discredited. Eusebeus (talk) 15:32, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

• Ok, now do the same for every other episode page of every other show on Misplaced Pages. --69.117.172.143 (talk) 23:56, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry Eusebeus, but I just think your conception of "fan content" is uncorrect. Or, by the way, are not all the sport statistics in Misplaced Pages "for fans only"? And what about all the data about pop music releases? Are not these a pure fan service? Is the history of Destiny's Child more "Wikipedian" than Scrubs episodes analysis? However, Scrubs Wikia _is_ a fansite, made by fans for fans, far from the quality control Misplaced Pages can and must have. Therefore, as a professional, I can't trust at all the content of a site like that. Dumping the old pages there (where at the moment they are NOT) will means not to improve them anymore.(And the system to access the deleted pages through history is so unpractical I can't even consider it seriously). But, again, here the problem is to treat informations about a pop culture act of undeniable quality like some stupid childish gibberish that would pollute the great adult encyclopedia. And that's just plain prejudice to me. (Thanks for introduce the sarcasm, anyway. It's very useful in a discussion. Was it in this way you "determined" all your things during October and November discussion?).Kumagoro-42 (talk) 01:28, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

• I am sorry if my attempt at humour came across as sarcasm. While I agree wholeheartedly with the effort to remove in-universe fan-driven content, that is not personal caprice, but instead the even application of our guidelines and policies as they have evolved. Bitching about it on the Scrubs talk page is not going to change what is a larger consensus-driven view of what does and does not belong here. As to the comment posted above, thanks for the encouragement: we are slowly getting around to bringing the mass of non-encyclopedic fictional content up to standard. Eusebeus (talk) 17:45, 18 December 2007 (UTC)