Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 01:38, 29 December 2007

Re DB-user and User:BKLisenbee see User:FayssalF/JK

User:BKLisenbeehas been involved in on going edit wars and character assassination. This noticifation arises after refusing to mediate. See User:FayssalF/JK.Opiumjones 23 (talk) 02:08, 21 December 2007 (UTC) be aware

block this user

see below

User:Opiumjones 23 03:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Re BKLisenbee deleting my comments, don't delete my comments on my Talk page or my comments on other discussion pages

The above user is campaigning on Misplaced Pages on a very much debated area re Jajouka, Bachir Attar, etc. His POV is proven below but he keeps deleting this post. BKLisenbee do not edit my talk page!!!!!!or remove my commnets. This is against all the rules you quote so much. The Babelmed

• Article refs Bachir Attar history and his drinking eg vodka]

is generally a soft piece of journalism promoting Bachir Attar save for the journalist noting Attar's drinking. A Sufi trance musician in a Halal region of Morocco drinking two bottles of vodka in a sitting strikes me as noteworthy. Bachir Attar co-operated on the article so your cherry picking is obtuse and obviously designed to protect the image of this star. That is not what we are here for, neither it it our job to denigrate. However, Mr. Attar is a controversial figure as is shown on the talk pages and archived talk pages on related pages show and also in actual articles.. Therefore it a more than noteworthy point!!!! It may be a central issue in the divisions that seem to plague Jajouka. My post again is below, leave it here until admin comes back to me. Below is the deleted post: ] It was not the personal involvement that you below justify that I was referring to. However the below statement seems to indicate that you were not “personally involved” until two people who advocate a differing POV ie they work/ or are somehow advocates of the The Master Musicians of Joujouka did an interview you object to. You posted the following on your User page “I am not "obiously a part of the story", as you say. I was only drawn into this because Frank Rynne & Joe Ambrose slandered Paul Bowles and libeled myself and a friend, who still live in Tangier” The above quote from your posting on your user page is actually stating that you not” obviously a part of the story” but your personal involvement is justified because of an interview referred to above. This is confirming that you have a POV. As your deletions followed a pattern of recent vandalism they gave great cause for concern. However the personal involvement I referred in my post on your user page "Personal Involvement" was to do with the below information which I did not feel I needed to go into as I was sure you were aware of your involvement in the affairs of Bachir Attar So here is a little of what I found about this on the web. Some issues were previously raised on archived discussions pages. You are webmaster and designer of a website associated with the Paul Bowle’s Estate some of the beneficiaries of which included Ms Cherie Nutting (Bachir Attar's manager) and a Philip Ramey. See

• Arts web page detailing one aspect of your involvement in paul bowles site

Site states “Responsibility Lisenbee, Kenneth (Designer) - Responsibility PaulBowles.org and the estate of Paul and Jane Bowles (Copyright_holder)”

The website you run contains negative references to Mohamed Hamri and you have been editing the Wiki page on him. see

• Paul Bowles site you run

Your website promotes and links to

• Bachir Attar’s website and has recently helped promoting a show by his group.
• Bachir Attar promo and link to his commercial site on your website

The ex wife of Bachir Attar and current manager of his group, Cherie Nutting writes for your site. Her photographs are also used throughout. You say you met Miss Nutting and Bachir Attar as they visited Mr. Bowles in Tangier. In light of the above and the below links and facts I am afraid that I can not accept your statement at face value. You are also listed as having travelled with Miss. Nutting to events On the below site See

• Travellling to USA with C. Nutting

This link refs , Phillip Ramey, Kenneth Lisenbee, Joseph A. McPhillips III, Cherie Nutting, Virginia Spencer Carr, Claude Nathalie Thomas, Irene Herrmann and Philip Krone attending a private collaborators event. Therefore I would again suggest in the strongest Wiki way that you cease to edit the various Jajouka Joujouka and related pages which you have previously edited with a pro Master Musicians of Jajouka/Bachir Attar and anti Master Musicians of Joujouka/ Mohamed Hamri bias. These edits are sometimes very minor I will admit such as putting links to Master Musicians of Joujouka in different positions to highlight your friend and colleague's pages Master Musicians of Jajouka. However you have also completely changed Bachir Attar in the last few days.

This is not exactly the same as editing your own page but it is against Wiki rules and good behaviour.

Again I must reiterate that it was the closeness of your recent edits to blocked Anon IPs who vandalised links that brought your edits to my attention. These IPs' edits are consitant with your POV edits. This Jajouka Joujouka mess needs to be straightened out and is best left to people who are not directly involved in either sides' business affairs. Please respect the rules of this site.

One last note after your link deletions you have now started editing, amongst other pages, Jajouka This page is under discussion and certain users feel that the official Moroccan government spelling should be adopted with links from the two names used by the recording groups for clarity. I shall revert your copy edits later.

Abelelkrim 10:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 -   -   -

Abelelkrim 22:04, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

found tis that he deketed on a user talk

edited out long quote

User:Opiumjones 23 03:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

this users sock page

and His sock puppets

User:Opiumjones 23 03:44, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Re BKLisenbee

What should be done about BKLisenbee ? His POV has been gone into at length. So who shall block and revert his serial edits on the concerned pages?

See

BKLisenbee POV edit history

and His sock puppets

His recent edits are an attempt to erase facts and history prior to his client visiting Canada next month. Therefore he is using this site as a public relations tool. Pls advise.

See Please have a look at User:FayssalF/JK

added comment from other user

I wanted to let you know that this Jajouka/Joujouka dust-up has been ongoing for quite some time. This BKLisenbee fellow is one of the long-term combatants in an extra-Misplaced Pages fight over who is the legitimate heir to the musical traditions of ancient Morocco. There are a number of partisans in the issue here in the US, as well as Ireland, Great Britain, and Morocco itself. I take no side on the matter, and my only concern is the accuracy of articles related to the subject. But, long-term edit warring has been the scenario. Attempts at reconciliation have failed. I felt you should be aware of this. Cheers! ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 16:37, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

User:Opiumjones 23 17:27, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

User:Opiumjones 23 16:47, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Jajouka (not Joujouka) and Master Musicians of Jajouka (not Master Musicians of Joujouka)

FayssalF:

There is a problem with redirecting from Jajouka to Joujouka and from Master Musicians of Jajouka to Master Musicians of Joujouka.

I have looked on the MSN Encarta Encylopedia and found the Moroccan village listed there as Jajouka. It is not Joujouka. Here is the link showing the correct spelling as Jajouka: encarta

There is only one official site: www.jajouka.com and not (joujouka.net).

Does this help? When will someone at Misplaced Pages, an administrator or editor fix this redirection? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BKLisenbee (talk • contribs) 20:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

Hi BKLisenbee. I am really confused. This issue is really bothering me a lot. I've semi-protected both Joujouka and The Master Musicians of Joujouka hoping contributors would use the talk pages to discuss the issues. I am not sure what to do, really. Discussions at talk pages would really help me sort this out for you. Coudl you please post some of your concerns re these articles at their respective talk pages? Cheers -- Szvest - 10:24, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Sir, when you try to "discuss" the Jajouka / Joujouka mess with you come up with Frank Rynne's name as and that seems to be the problem. No one can do anything until you allow others to actually to actually talk to someone who realizes it is hijacking the name of Jajouka and turning it into Joujouka or Master Musicians of Joujouka. This is not a balanced way of dealing with the issue and goes contrary to Misplaced Pages's philosophy of fairness to all.— Preceding unsigned comment added by BKLisenbee (talk • contribs)

BKLisenbee. If you read my message above carefully you'd understand that i am not supporting any of the versions. What i am supporting in to see all parties discussing these issues at talk pages. I'd happily help moderate the discussion but someone needs to start it as i already did my part (protecting articles for the same reason) and waiting a reaction from your part at the talk pages. Once the matter is sorted out, i'll obviously un-protect the articles. Otherwise, i'll be bold and deal with this issue tomorrow as you already gave me the Encarta link. Cheers -- Szvest - 19:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Dear All,user BK lisenbee knows full well that there have been two groups of musicians from Zahjouka (the name used by the local Caid and officials) one Master Musicians of Joujouka who have just releasd yet another Cd. The other grouyp is Master Musicians of Jajouka featuring Bachir Attar. The latter have been involved in a long dispute with both the villagers and the late Mohamed Hamri. The Joujouka spelling was the earliest used in the West and was used since the sixties by the group on joujouka.net. I suggest a seperate page for Master Musicians of Jajouka featuring Bachir Attar as they have substanially different notion of the history of the group. IE all references to Hamris role in the both groups history will be removed. This was demonstrated by the reissue of the Brian Jones album in 1995 when the sleave notes of Brion Gysin who was dead at the time were altered by Mr. Attar so as to leave out Gysin's ref to Hamri as being the person who introduced him to Joujouka. They also CHANGED THE SPELLING from the original 1971 release so this is an old problem. User:Opiumjones 23 19:16, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

indeed he notes this in his tags on edits see his contributions Opiumjones 23 (talk) 02:23, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Please add yourself to the disambiguation assent request at article talk page

I discovered a poll at "The Master Musicians of Joujouka" talk page regarding disambiguating, which means "splitting into separate articles" for this piece. You are mentioned by the administrator on that page. Normally experienced administrators or editors are not so timid about this process and do not wait for people to post their assent, but he called for people involved in the Talk Page to give their assent, so please log in some time and list your view on disambiguation if you ever happen to see this message. It seems to me the broader "Master Musicians of Jajouka" name as used in allmusic.com should be listed for article mentioning the major label artists and "Master Musicians of Joujouka" for the Sub Rosa group article. See the bottom of the talk page, unless by the time you see this message the article has already been split by the administrator. Emerman 17:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I notice just now that you have replied to the item I mentioned above. For reference, it is good to end a reply with the signature using the 4 tilde ~ marks rather than put it at the beginning. You could begin the item by putting : at the beginning if you feel a need to mark a new reply for some reason at the beginning. Also, sometimes people indent new items using colon : marks (as I did in this indented reply to myself) and a space before the beginning of an entry but your reply is not a reply to someone else so you are ok with not indenting. When people list their vote often they would normally deliniate themselves by starting with an asterisk * and a space but nobody else did that so I guess you don't need to either. But I would recommend putting your signature at the end instead of the beginning of your reply because people might think someone is speaking to you as in "BKLisenbee, ..." instead of realizing you are signing your reply since signatures normally go at the beginning. Just a note since I am gathering that you are possibly new to wikipedia. Welcome to wikipedia. Emerman 21:14, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

POV comments?

You continue to remove my comments which have proven your business and other relationships to the subjects you have been editing. Stop this or I will seek to have you blocked. It is not acceptable behaviour.

Just admit the PoV and only edit on pages not directly related to your business and personal life. In the mean time until other users can see and comment on your POV I shall repost and revert your editing of me on. Please behave corrrectly.

Abelelkrim 18:22, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

And YOU have no POV? At least get your facts straight and please that Administrator Fayssal and others have already concurred that NO brink.com or thehandstand.org and unverifiable blog links may be used on Misplaced Pages.

BKLisenbee 18:22, 03 December 2007 (UTC)

Block

I've blocked you form editing temporarily for your disruptive behaviour, including deleting another editor's comments from article Talk pages. When the block expires, please edit responsibly, and with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines.

Note also that removing links to sites with which you disagree is not acceptable. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 14:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Warnings by Administrators at Misplaced Pages are ignored by user Frankrynne, OpiumJones_23 and Abelelkrim

you have started your pov editing again. This needs to be flagged to a higher authority . In the meantime please note the below and check the links that the admin removed. They were the ones re complaints against you

Abelelkrim 22:30, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Administration believes that comments by user Frankrynne, aka user Opiumjones_23 have been totally inappropriate, with personal information, addresses, threats, are Misplaced Pages policy, not merely guidelines. Warnings to them have been repeatedly ignored and they have persisted to the point of legal threats and harassment, even via e-mails. I have asked that they be permanently banned for personal attacks.

BKLisenbee 10:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

WP:HARRASS

Hi Abelelkrim. I've just removed here and here two of your comments re User:BKLisenbee as they are part of WP:HARRASS. Those comments got nothing to do w/ Misplaced Pages and are considered personal information totally unrelated and irrelevant to the encyclopaedia. Apart from that you and we have no knowledge if the information gotten from a blog (blogs are not acceptable as a source in wikipedia) concern the user in question.

Please read the policy carefully and avoid doing it next time. If you have posted it somewhere else in Misplaced Pages, i urge you to remove them immediately. Thanks. -- FayssalF - 17:45, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Abelelkrim 22:31, 6 May 2007 (UTC) ,

An informal mediation process

Hi BKLisenbee. Please have a look at User:FayssalF/JK. Your participation would be highly appreciated. Cheers. -- FayssalF - 13:58, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Burroughs letter

Greetings: I think the external link to Burroughs' letter would be more appropriate on one of the Jajouka/Joujouka related articles (if it really needs to be on Misplaced Pages at all). If you're trying to add information to Misplaced Pages based on the letter, then better to add some text and cite the letter. Thanks for your consideration. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:16, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, talk pages are meant to be a record of a discussion; deleting or editing legitimate comments, as you did at User talk:Gyrofrog, is considered bad practice, even if you meant well. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:10, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

What should be done about BKLisenbee ? His POV has been gone into at length. So who shall block and revert his serial edits on the concerned pages?

See

His POV edit history

and His sock puppets

His recent edits are an attempt to erase facts and history prior to his client visiting Canada next month. Therefore he is using this site as a public relations tool. Pls advise.

See Please have a look at User:FayssalF/JK

User:Opiumjones 23 16:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Important

Please refer to this. Thanks. -- FayssalF - 20:47, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Blocked

You have been both blocked from editing Misplaced Pages for a period of 1 week because of disruption and sockpuppetry. This is you and this is him. -- FayssalF - 03:51, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

so now let~'s revert this user

User:Opiumjones 23 00:17, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

POV of User Opiumjones 23 and Harrassment, Threats, Personal info & False Comments by user Frankrynne

This reissue resulted in protests at Attar's concerts, as well as those of Philip Glass whose label Point Music released the reissue. A contemporary photo of Bachir Attar replaced the original painting by Mohamed Hamri which, featured Brian Jones and The Master Musicians of Joujouka. Bachir was four when the record was made and was only a dancing boy Sleavenotes were altered to remove all mention of Hamri's central role in promoting Joujouka/Jajouka and bringing Jones and Brion Gysin to the village. The harshest criticisms were that none of the actual musicians or descendants were consulted or recieved any payments from the large advance paid to Bachir Attrar. Bachir Attar claims to carry on his father's Attar family traditions with a new generation of "master musicians" descended from members of his father's group. However as Jajouka is halal his taste, as reported, for vodka makes this claim dubious. The fact that he does not live in the village and that only two genuine musicians from the sacred village play with him make those claims rather unsustainable."

User:Opiumjones 23 (talk) 01:55, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Again, User:Opiumjones 23 seems to think that taking one paragraph of a basically favorable article makes the leader of the one and only Master Musicians of Jajouka "non-Halal". Vodka drinking has nothing to do with this dispute, however, it is only another smear attempt by user Frankrynne, who I hope will be permanently banned from further editing on Misplaced Pages.

I will have nothing to do with this individual, who presumes that he knows me well, when he does not. We met once or twice briefly, but his threats, insinuations, personal information, e-mail harassments, and other trivia added on Misplaced Pages are only hurting his POV. He can't even spell correctly, half of the time. He drags in trivia and other individuals have nothing to do with this dispute. He has even dragged in Elvis, French legal cases, etc., and other matters trying to justify his regular abuse of Misplaced Pages on his Joujouka problem.

BKLisenbee 10:41, 03 December 2007 (UTC)

re your edits

The Brian Jones Lp page is not a split page it represents the LP and the controversial Cd reissue. Therefore pls consider before editing again.

User:Opiumjones 23 (talk) 01:29, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Incidents reported to ANI

Hi Kenneth. I've just informed the ANI about what's going on. I hope some admins would come for help as it seems that one admin cannopt be here all the time. -- FayssalF - 18:07, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Hello BKLisenbee

Hi BKLisenbee. Could you please have a look at this proposal? Thanks in advance. -- FayssalF - 18:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

BKL RE: your edits on the page of Frank Rynne

Hi BKLisinbee. I have undone your edits on the page of Frank Rynne. Those are perfectly legitimate links that you have removed. Do this again and I will have no choice but to report this. Other administratoers have agreed with the validity of these links.Hannahdolly (talk) 18:29, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

3RR rule is operable here User:Opiumjones 23 (talk) 00:20, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

And what about you ALL? 3RR rule is also actionable. Have you not been reminded by Administrator FayssalF that those links are not "legitimate" and they are written by or about you and "Joujouka"? Nor will I EVER agree to any mediation, formal or otherwise, if Tualal (below) is involved, as he clearly threatened a former user Emerman with legal action. I do not feel that that his participation would be appropriate since he is a lawyer who has threatened in the past on this issue. As to your removal or the letter from Willilam S. Burroughs regarding the real Jajouka, and their true leader Bachir Attar, and your removal of the James Grauerhauser letter to you and your friend regarding Jajouka on your own Misplaced Pages page, and your re-adding the Brink.com, thehandstand.org and other links when you have been told they are not to be used, I want NOTHING TO DO with any mediation until this matter is resolved by higher ups in Administration. You have harrassed me and writen nasty threatening e-mails, and these have all been forwarded to Wikimedia and an administration at Misplaced Pages. BKLisenbee 13:27, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

your edits continue to violate this site's policies. You refuse mediation. What next? You should mediate, retire or be blocked permanentlyOpiumjones 23 (talk) 01:35, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

again violations of WP:BLP etc Opiumjones 23 (talk) 01:38, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreement to formal mediation

Hi BKLisinbee, I just wanted to let you know I have agreed to formal mediation over the Joujouka matter, along with others. I would really appreciate it if you would participate too, as I believe we cannot proceed without you, in all fairness, to resolving this dispute. This represents a long awaited opportunity for making real progress here, and I for one am grateful there for all the kind supervision being offered. Tuathal (talk) 12:18, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: request for speedy deletion of this user talk page by owner

User talk pages are not speedy deletable unless WP:BLP issues are claimed. Refer to WP:MFD. JERRY _contribs 02:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)