Misplaced Pages

Please see the Revision history of Second Intifada, the objectionable edit, the Second Intifada Talk Page. ← Michael Safyan (talk) 07:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Please clarify what are you calling the "alleged reason" versus the "actual reason" for the block. -- tariqabjotu 07:42, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

By "alleged reason" I mean the stated reason which was used to justify the block to the administrative board. By "actual reason" I mean the reason why the block was sought in the first place -- that is, Jaakobou's reversion of the controversial edits. That the block was sought for this reason is evidenced by the fact that the stated reason involves a dispute which transpired a long time ago and by the fact that threats to block Jaakobou were first raised in the discussion of the controversial edits which Jaakobou reverted. ← Michael Safyan (talk) 08:31, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

My apologies. I misunderstood the reason for blocking. I thought it was a 3RR violation of Second Intifada regarding wikilinks to the House demolitions article rather than a 3RR violation of the House demolitions article, itself. ← Michael Safyan (talk) 08:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Jaakobou is a hugely problematical editor with almost no understanding of the policy of the encyclopedia or scholarship - or indeed the English language. His bluster, ownership of articles (and TalkPages) is totally inimicable to the project. He has consistently escaped censure for rampant abuses - and we can again see the personalised attacks that have allowed him to get away with it for so long. The admin in this case has looked at the evidence and (as best as I'm aware) applied a reasonable sanction for the breaches alleged, likely unaware of what went before. Having discovered the blow-back he may feel severely bitten, but it is to be hoped that other admins will not be as spineless as those who've become aware of this situation before, and failed to do anything about it. 3RR is almost the least of the problems. PR 00:07, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Copyright problems with toy photos

User:Mathewignash has uploaded hundreds of photographs of toys (primarily Transformers), most of them listed under the GFDL. Unfortunately, the use of that license here is invalid. The Wikimedia Commons page on derivative works makes it clear that photographs of copyrighted toys are derivative. Since the toys and characters are currently under restrictive copyright, we can use photos like this only under a claim of fair use. Mathewignash has previously been blocked for copyright violation, but he was recently unblocked by an administrator who was apparently unaware of this particular aspect of copyright policy. I am sure he is acting in good faith (like the users who inaccurately label a screenshot as GFDL-self) but the photos will almost all have to be deleted. Also, he needs to be advised of this. *** Crotalus *** 22:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Photos 3D toys are indeed considered to be derivative works. This is often a point of confusion. 1 != 2 22:07, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there is much doubt of good faith, however, and indeed I think he has been previously advised otherwise (that promotional pictures are bad, but that self-taken pictures would be correct); he need to be set straight but not chided. — Coren  22:09, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I have gently advised Matthew of the correct policy on his talk page. Someone is going to have to go through and clear the backlog; not being an administrator, I can't delete any of them. *** Crotalus *** 22:10, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, because 90% of 2D images of 3D things are fair game. Not sure what we can do to prevent other users making this mistake (I have a horrible feeling I've made it recently...) without over-complicated wording on the upload pages. The best result is to make sure that all people involved - uploaders, people-that-notice, admins-who-don't-delete, admins-who-do - all keep up the smiley-happy-anyone-can-do-this-in-error thing. Slapping down of anyone, in either direction, is poor form. ➔ REDVEЯS says: at the third stroke the time will be 22:16, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Yep, I probably have: Image:Modern Stylophone.JPG. Advice on what to actually tag it with, deletion of it, or "other" all accepted. But if anyone wants to give me a template warning for uploading it or call for my head... well, game on. And we'll see who's sorry first. ➔ REDVEЯS says: at the third stroke the time will be 22:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, that one's almost certainly okay. The case where a copyright or trademark would trip a self-made photo are "distinctive appearance" and "visual branding" cases; toys which are characters, works of visual art, etc. It is possible that the Stylophone is covered by such, but it's not very likely. — Coren  22:37, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to butt in, but I was advised - after having a photo of a toy deleted from Commons for a similar reason - that tagging {{tl|Non-free use rationale}}, plus {{tl|Non-free 3D art}} or {{tl|Non-free character}} (it was a doll) would be appropriate in that situation, on en.wp only, which seems to have been okay so far. (Of course, now I've drawn it to people's attention...)--Kateshortforbob 00:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

(As the person who told Mathewignash that these were OK...) This has always been a grey area in policy, even I've known that. That said, images like, for example, Image:PlayStation 2.png contain copyrighted elements but happily sit with GFDL tags. I inferred from this that, although these toy images contain copyrighted works, a photo of them licenced as GFDL would be acceptable. If I have erred here, then I will accept that, though I'm not clear what the difference between the two cases is. After a conversation with someone who knows more on this than I, who confirmed that this is a contested issue, it seems these toy images could (apparently) be acceptable on en.wp (not commons) if tagged both with {{GFDL-self}} and {{trademark}}, and so long as they're used in a reasonable manner (say, Optimus Primal#Toys). The other suggestion was simply to make a claim of fair use on them. Either way, I defer judgement to others; I'm still trying to wikibreak and don't pretend to be an expert on this. – Steel 14:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

The problem stems that, as sculptures and character art, toy figurines are afforded more protection tan an industrially designed device simply baring a trademark for instance; nobody here blames you for falling afoul of that grayish area of Copyright law which is byzantine at its best - It also has been stretch to strange forms by some corporations (Apple, for instance, has DMCA'ed sites bearing photographs of some of its devices claiming that the case design were creative works of art making the photographs derived works — something that is not entirely silly on its face). As a rule, however, consumer devices are okay if they do not include works of art or (protectable) character images. The case of a Mickey Mouse watch, for instance, would fall squarely in the gray area.

Copyright law is a monstrosity long past its prime, but we have to work with (around) it as best as we can — fair use does allow us some leeway, but we have to be very careful.

For the case at hand, a photograph of a Transformer toy would be quite covered by fair use in an article about the toy, less so for an article about the character, and not at all otherwise. — Coren  16:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Sysop.js

I've chaged Sysop.js so that we have better auto-reasons when we're deleting pages (it's basically ^demons tool) and the text of the page isn't displayed in the deletion log (which can be especially problematic with attack pages). The problem is, if you have ^demons tool, or any similar version of it installed, you now get two boxes, so you need to remove ^demons tool from your monobook.js. Ryan Postlethwaite 23:13, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Not to be pedantic, but isn't this more appropriate at WP:AN? -- tariqabjotu 23:16, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

As this is going to affect every single admin, I wanted to get as wide an audience as possible, and as quickly as possible. Ryan Postlethwaite 23:22, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I like the new interface. Just my $0.02. Keilana_(recall) 23:27, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Why not wrap the csdDeleteForm variable and the relevant functions and function calls in an if statement to test if it already exists? I think something like

if( typeof(csdDeleteForm) == 'undefined' )

would work. Then admins with local copies of ^demon's script would not be inconvenienced and would not notice two interfaces. Note that the name "csdDeleteForm" has been in use almost since the beginning of the script. --Iamunknown 00:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, I slightly altered the original - we didn't quite want WP:NOT#MYSPACE as a deletion reason, would it still work? Ryan Postlethwaite 00:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... I got rid of this new interface because, to be honest, I found it highly annoying, and I have my reasons on autocomplete if I ever need them, because I usually clear out the content anyways. Maxim_(talk) 01:33, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Just out of interest, how is it worse than the old one? Ryan Postlethwaite 01:36, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Nah, I dislike the MediaWiki: list, but I'm OK with the sysop.js list but I still don't like it. Just put Twinkle into sysop.js and you'd have a csd tab that should work for 85% of sysops, and saves you a few mousecliks and looks after what links here for you. Maxim_(talk) 14:36, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Requesting review of User:Rosencomet block

I've just blocked User:Rosencomet for 24 hours for violating WP:CANVASS after being given a final warning. First warning (included diffs to canvassing posts and link to policies) . Second warning, by a different admin Redvers: . Rosencomet reverts admin (Redvers) removal of canvassing: . Because of my history with Rosencomet, I would like a review of my block. Cheers, Pigman☿ 23:58, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

• My fault: if I'd glanced up his talk page, I'd have seen the previous very clear warnings and would have done him for longer than your 24 hours (to the end of the AfDs in question, in fact). Support the 24hr block as protective of the the deletion discussion system. ➔ REDVEЯS says: at the third stroke the time will be 00:29, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

• Comment: Thanks, Redvers. Again, because of my history of conflict with Rosencomet, I felt the need to be cautious in my actions. What he did was clearly a blocking violation but I didn't think it wise to make the block too long. Extending the block to the length of the AfDs is warranted I believe but I'm too close to the situation to make a call like that. That's why I immediately brought my actions here to put other eyes on the situation. Pigman☿ 01:27, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

• Support block and agree with Redvers that it would be best to extend the block till the AfDs Rosencomet was canvassing on (Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/WinterStar Symposium and Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Jeff Rosenbaum (2nd nomination)) are completed. As Rosencomet has shown himself willing to continue canvassing despite warnings from two different admins, and revert uninvolved admin removal of his canvassing, I think there is a risk of him continuing to violate policy when the 24 hours are up. The AfDs are also being hit by SPAs now, and judging from their comments, it looks to me like he's continuing to canvass off-wiki. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 01:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

• According to his comments on Fred Bauder's talk page, this editor has been in a conflict with Pigman, Kathryn NicDhana and Matisse for quite some time. Given that, wouldn't it have been more appropriate to request someone else make the block? Particularly since it is a WP:CANVASS block, not exactly a critical reason to block first and ask later since you can put the canvass template at the AfD? Additionally, just above you reported him for personal attacks. All in all, you are clearly involved in a dispute with this guy and blocking yourself was inappropriate. Avruchtalk 01:52, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

• Comment: You're probably correct, Avruch. Please note the canvass template was already on the AfDs and that Rosencomet was actively engaged in reverting Redvers' removal of Rosencomet's canvassing at the time. Still, perhaps this could have been handled by requesting the block instead of doing it myself. However I'd also like to note that, despite massive amounts of evidence of COI spamming by Rosencomet, there seems to be some reluctance to take action against him because of the Starwood arbitration (closed March, 2007). If you'd like to get up to speed on Rosencomet's actions and community responses to his behaviour over the last 16 months, I'd be happy to point you to RfCs, mediations, his archived talk page, the closed arbitration, etc. (he said sweetly) Pigman☿ 02:35, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

No thanks, I'm sure I could find it but I'm not terribly interested. I just happened to have Fred's talkpage watched, and then noticed that same editors name come up here attached to yours (twice). I understand there is a long history about this user, but I also understand that you have been involved in much or all of it (correct me if I'm wrong here). Given that, you absolutely should have asked someone else to evaluate the situation prior to a block. The template is to warn people who have been canvassed, not the canvasser, and anyone who has been notified by Rosencomet would see it and understand (ideally). A block is not a typical response to a WP:CANVASS violation that I'm aware of - can you provide diffs that demonstrate his canvassing was having a disruptive result? We allow notifications, and in fact its built in to project templates and etc and there is even a whole sorting WikiProject to make sure interested people have an opportunity to weigh in. Avruchtalk 02:40, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi Avruch, the relevant policy is here: Misplaced Pages:CANVASS#Responding_to_disruptive_canvassing, specifically, "Users with a prior history of disruptive canvassing, which they have previously been asked to discontinue, may be blocked immediately without further warning, if such an action is deemed to be necessary." While it would have been preferable for another admin to set the block, I think that the fact that Pigman, by setting a short block to stop the violations in progress, then immediately coming here to ask for more eyes on it, has shown transparency and accountability in this. I believe Pigman was successful in preventing further disruptive editing. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 03:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm aware of the policy, which is why I asked for examples showing how his canvassing is being disruptive (as opposed to just irritating). A short block would have been an hour, or two hours. You folks are talking about blocking him for the duration of these AfDs, which is something entirely other than a short block. Avruchtalk 03:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Though the comments of Rosencomet don't inspire confidence, I think Pigman should undo the block, per Administrators must not block users with whom they are engaged in a content dispute, from WP:BLOCK. Though one might argue that the canvassing offence was independent of the various content disputes, it is better to avoid the appearance of a COI in the blocking itself. If the issue is important enough, another admin can re-impose the block. If Rosencomet's block is lifted and no-one reimposes it, and that gives rise to additional misbehavior in the various AfDs, that can be taken into account by the respective closing admins. EdJohnston (talk) 03:12, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Pigman should not have made the block. A request should have been made here for consideration. No comment on the block itself, I don't have time to review the situation. Thatcher 03:59, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

• Ed and Thatcher, I think both your points are well taken. This is precisely why I brought it here. Rosencomet's blatant canvassing after being quite specifically warned about it led me to act a little more rashly and impulsively than I probably should have in this kind of situation. I'm usually much more circumspect, deliberate, and mindful of these issues. I agree that even the appearance of COI in a block is not good. I'm lifting the block but I'm doing so with the expectation that others will keep an eye on the situation. Cheers, Pigman☿ 04:25, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Good choice. Personally, if someone uninvolved decides blocking him is appropriate that would be fine with me (posting here and on his talk page with the unblock template is not a disendorsement of the idea of blocking him). I'm a little put out that my points weren't well taken too, though :-P Avruchtalk 04:33, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

My sincere apologies, Avruch. An oversight, to be sure, and no slight to you intended. ;-) I did agree with most of your points further up. A little less than entirely gracious and wholehearted perhaps but I've also been dealing with this ongoing mess for quite a while and I hope you can excuse me if I'm a wee bit edgy on the subject on occasion. Cheers, Pigman☿ 07:11, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Requesting block for edit warring

IP User 24.91.119.156, apparently on a vendetta against certain well-established (& rather dry) geographic and demographic facts, has removed the same paragraph from Brighton, Boston, Massachusetts#Geography seven times in the past five weeks. Has ignored repeated invitations to discussion & to seek consensus, e.g., 24 December message on talk page User talk:24.91.119.156. No response, and no explanation ever given in edit summary space. Anonymous "account" is used for no other purpose than repeatedly deleting this content. Behavior pattern continuing after last warning (regarding disruptive editing), given on 25 December. It is an ongoing nuisance for me and another editor to watch the article closely and restore the deleted material each time. Please block this user long term or permanently. Thank you for your help. Hertz1888 (talk) 01:35, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not an admin, but I just thought I'd drop in and comment. Good call in reporting the user here. However, for similar incidents consider using Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR. This user isn't the best example (though they did have a streak on November 23rd ), but for edit wars you can usually use that page. Cheers, Master of Puppets 01:51, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Adding: I do not think a short-term block would be effective, as there have been hiatusses of a few days to a few weeks between repetitions of the pattern. That is why I am requesting a long-term or indefinite block. Thanks again. Hertz1888 (talk) 03:12, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Given the infrequent nature of the edits, there isn't much that can be done. We don't block IP addresses indefinitely, because the person could come back with a different dynamic address or username if we blocked this one. All you can do is revert the edits if they are inappropriate. Sorry to be of little help, — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that's really true. The fact that this IP appears static lends weight to the possibility of a long term (not indefinite, but far longer than 24 hours) block being effective. Indeed, another admin has blocked him for two weeks. Just as a registered user who intermitently vandalizes Misplaced Pages for several weeks with no constructive edits inbetween can be long-term blocked with no collateral damage, an apparently static vandalism-only-IP can be blocked for weeks at a time without inconveniencing anyone else. Someguy1221 (talk) 09:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Two weeks is reasonable, but the request was for something a lot longer than that. There really isn't much benefit to blocking an IP for months at a time just to stop one edit per month. — Carl (CBM · talk) 15:49, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

User:STBotI

This bot is malfunctioning and tagging images that have completed FURs. Can someone block it please? Exxolon (talk) 04:01, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Blocked, I'm trying to find ST47 on IRC now to inform him. Mr.Z-man 04:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Now unblocked as ST47 has fixed the issue. --D_arkF_alls 13:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

BRD question

If you're trying to work within WP:BRD guidelines, and another editor simply reverts but refuses to participate in discussion, what's the next step? BRD doesn't seem to work so well without the D. AliveFreeHappy (talk) 12:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

You should seek help from others. There are several ways in which to do so: find a relevant Wikiproject and alert them, seek a third opinion, or raise a request for comment on the issue. Sam Blacketer (talk) 12:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Good points. Do you have any additional suggestions if the other editors are IP editors? AliveFreeHappy (talk) 12:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

If an IP is revert warring and not participating in discussion, request semi-protection (don't do it yourself). Avruchtalk 13:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

DYK late again

...and none of the usual DYK admins seem to be around. It's almost six hours late and we have a very substantial backlog already, so could someone please post the update? I've thrown one together, but we need an admin to post it to the front page, I can do the rest. Gatoclass (talk) 12:32, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Did I do it right? I broke DYK the last two times I tried updating it. east.718 at 12:57, December 30, 2007

Did you remember to protect the image? Otherwise, it looks fine to me, thanks :) I'll do the notifications. Gatoclass (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 13:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Why not set this up to autorotate? It could easily be done with switch statements that will rotate per hour or every few hours. {{#expr: {{CURRENTHOUR}} / 6 round 0}}, for example, would give a number that would rotate every four hours. So {{#switch:{{#expr: ({{CURRENTHOUR}} - 3) / 6 round 0}} | 0 = did you know w | 1 = did you know x | 2 = did you know y | 3 = did you know z }} would give you a different did you know every four hours, eg, "" for this hour. Another switch could be made to include day mod 2 or mod 3 so that they can be setup several days in advance. That way someone doesn't have to just so happen to be available right at the right time. --B (talk) 14:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

If anyone is interested, please see User:B/DYK demo for a demo of this concept. If you transclude {{User:B/DYK demo}}, you will get only the current set, yet all four sets are stored in the same template. It's exactly like what is currently done - the only difference is you can set them up in advance. --B (talk) 18:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Review discussions regarding naming of buildings.

There has been ongoing debate and an independent administrator need to review the arguments regarding the articles. As wikipedia is not an experiment in democracy the number of support and oppose "votes" are irrelevant. Also the discussions have not concluded and changes to the articles have been made before the articles the discussions have concluded. Please review 201 Bishopsgate, 110 Bishopsgate, 25-33 Canada Square, 301/3 Deansgate, and 1 Blackfriars. Some of the articles did not even have discussions regarding the name on the pages and were moved unilaterally. With the full knowledge that discussions on the names of other buildings were being conducted. I believe that the naming convention needs changing and a proposal has been made Here.--Lucy-marie (talk) 14:04, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

There's no need for every edit and every move of a page to be discussed beforehand - in fact, we try to encourage the opposite, see WP:BB. Only where the actions are contentious does a discussion need to take place and consensus be attained. I can't really see anything going on here that needs administrator attention at the moment, although I will register my opinion on the proposal you've mentioned. Waggers (talk) 15:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I've just replied to this in the AN. Please don't forum shop. One place is plenty enough. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 15:18, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I am not entirely sure what forum shopping is but I believe that each article is individual and should be discussed individually.--Lucy-marie (talk) 15:25, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Blatant forum shopping. Closing this one out. east.718 at 15:28, December 30, 2007

Threatening language by an Admin

User:Iridescent has recently posted on to my talk page and appears to be threatening me. In there any action I can take?--Lucy-marie (talk) 15:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

It is clear that you've been edit warring a lot, and Iridescent has lost her patience — something she has every right to do. Edit warring is extremely discruptive and can result in a block, which is what she jsut warned you about.--Phoenix-wiki  15:11, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

To save cross-posting, see discussion here. — iridescent 15:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

To clarify, and I haven't read the back-history yet on this, an administrators job involves telling users if and when they are engaging in behavior that's a problem, and if and when something bad may happen if they continue. That's part of their job, and expected. To do that they will use judgement to issue warnings, and those are intended to inform and guide.

In some cases sadly there have been admin posts that are improper, but these are a great minority. Note also that perfection is not expected, and lapses may occur; admins may at times be blunt, abrupt, curt, or to the point (but should still do so civilly); but good (or above average) conduct is anticipated to be the desired norm. The post on your talk page is blunt and curt. I would expect that "not assuming AGF" does not necessarily mean "seeking to assume bad faith". The admin notes that you continue to create (or be involved in) behaviors and conflicts of the kind you were previously warned about. Because you were told not to (but you continue), and because there is also evidence of other edit war related behaviors that are not part of good collaborative intentions, the assumption that these behaviors are mere innocent errors done unwittingly may not be appropriate.

That's how I read it. It is blunt to the point of abrasiveness I will agree; to the point I'd say consider wording it slightly differently, but that's my understanding of what he/she is saying. Hope that helps :) FT2  15:32, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

This and this are the diffs in question. Although she deletes them as fast as they come in, a skim through her talkpage history shows she's had more than enough warnings to reach "final warning" stage. — iridescent 15:35, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't have diffs to prove it myself, but I seem to recall this user (Lucy-marie) filing a lot of frivolous complaints against users in the past. JuJube (talk) 15:38, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I can't see any warnings since the block. I think it would have been better not to jump to a high level warning. --neonwhite user page talk 16:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

(from Iridescent's talk page, the disussion seems to be continuing here) Having reviewed Special:Contributions/Lucy-marie I think a short block of the user in question might be warranted. She's constantly edit warring, wikilawyering and generally being disruptive. Any opinions on this?--Phoenix-wiki  15:39, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Can you provide some evidence on this? I can see this user has also contributed alot of positive edits. --neonwhite user page talk 16:12, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think she means harm. I think she just doesn't understand collaborative editing. My impression is that for her, the rules as written down, are everything. She seems to see everything in black and white, no interpretations are needed, no working with others are required. I don't feel a short block would remedy that :-( Theresa Knott | The otter sank 15:51, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the warning was out of order, if anything it was to lenient, AGF does have its limits. - Caribbean~H.Q. 16:15, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the wording of that warning may be a bit more curt than even I would use, but Iridescent's impatience is quite understandable, and Good Faith has been more than assumed as demonstrated that this editor is not already blocked. — Coren  16:47, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I recall blocking User:Lucy-marie a little while back for abusive sockpuppetry; my take from the occasional skim of her talk page (which apparently remains on my watchlist) is that Lucy-marie is an editor with serious difficulties in her approach, which seems abrasive and uncollaborative. For what it's worth. MastCell 20:25, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Personal attack by User:Oltnilen

This edit

It is in Turkish and says "This user is stupid". bu, kullanıcı, salak. --Ilhanli (talk) 16:42, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

The user already had a warning, which I've further explained. - Rjd0060 (talk) 16:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Legal threat?

I've not encountered one of these beasts before. Does this qualify? Assistance/advice appreciated. :) --Moonriddengirl 17:45, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I have assumed good faith, and assumed that the user was not aware of our position on legal threats. I have notified him/her of WP:NLT. If he/she continues to make such legal threats, blocking would be appropriate. Aecis 17:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. As I said, this was a new one for me. :) --Moonriddengirl 17:56, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Account sent a similar but expanded legal threat to me in email after the NLT warnings. Pursuant to policy, persistently making repeated legal threats is grounds for indef blocking, and I have done so. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 18:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Continued problems by User:Magnonimous/24.36.201.161

• Magnonimous (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) editing since 14 December 2007
• 24.36.201.161 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) editing since 5 December 2007

Articles

• Coral calcium (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Coral Calcium Claims (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) created 20 December 2007 by Magnonimous

(Magnonimous has changed signatures for 24.36.201.161 to his own , so I'm assuming these are the same person.)

Magnonimous behavior problems continue and are getting worse. See previous ANI at: Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive343#User:Magnonimous.2F24.36.201.161

Since this last ANI, he has removed a number of tags including an afd notice from Okinawa Coral, the latest pov-fork of Coral calcium, and has spammed defamatory accusations to multiple talk pages: User talk:Ronz Talk:Stephen Barrett User talk:Magnonimous User talk:B User talk:KnowledgeOfSelf and User talk:Levine2112 --Ronz (talk) 18:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Afd notice was added without justification, without notice or relevant talk, and went against the general consensus we had on the talk page. I believe MoonLightGlory's contribution removed significant amounts of POV content from the original quote-unquote Coral Calcium article, and seemed to relieve the edit warring, at least temporarily. In retrospect it seems ridiculous to add more POV content to an article to try to balance it. I wish I had done what he/she did in the first place, and removed that crackpot's ramblings from the original article altogether. Matter of fact, I think i'll go do that right now. Magnonimous (talk) 19:13, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

On a sidenote, I had NO IDEA :-] about the ban on canvassing. Where did my mind go hm hm hm. Secondly, it's hardly defamation if presented as an opinion on an opinion based page. Magnonimous (talk) 19:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify what Magnonimous meant by, "Matter of fact, I think i'll go do that right now." He replaced the content of Coral calcium completely by that of Okinawa Coral, which is up for deletion as a pov fork of Coral calcium. --Ronz (talk) 19:27, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Above action was not without relevant support: "I wouldn't be opposed to a complete stubbification of the article, removing all poorly referenced material. However, I see no reason to change the name. Okinawa coral is a subset of coral calcium, so redirecting would seem entirely inappropriate." Someguy1221, some might say this verges on consensus. Magnonimous (talk) 19:42, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Administrators, I apologize for my colleague's continued dredging up of past issues that you shouldn't have been bothered with in the first place --Magnonimous (talk) 19:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I've blocked Magnonimous (talk · contribs) for 24 hours for ongoing disruptive conduct, including removal of AfD tags, recreation of deleted content forks, canvassing, abuse of article talk pages, WP:BLP violations, and a generally unconstructive approach. MastCell 20:22, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Good move. Alot of good material was being trashed by a couple editors who don't understand NPOV and the fact that all significant POV are included in Misplaced Pages articles as long as they are well sourced and written in an NPOV manner. We don't publish the "truth" here, we publish verifiable POV. That is regardless of whether they are considered facts, opinions, POV, "the truth", or whatever else one chooses to call them. What we don't publish is OR and articles that don't meet notability requirements. -- Fyslee / talk 20:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

FYI, as soon as he was blocked, Jerome709 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) was autoblocked as a result. I'm assuming that means they are socks and based on the disruption I've seen from the two of them, I'd support a community ban. --B (talk) 21:13, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd support the ban; this has been going on for too long. As I said in the first ANI report, Magnonimous is a clear spa, who every couple weeks gets an idea that no one agrees with, leading to edit wars, an ANI report, and warnings all around. The fact that he's also a sockpuppet suggests to me this account was created with the express purpose of editing tendentiously, while avoiding any consequences following him to his main account. Someguy1221 (talk) 22:06, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, this just got more interesting . If this claim is truthful, then 24.36.201.161 is a shared private proxy. The IP that left the message for me is an open proxy and I have now blocked it. Please see Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Magnonimous if anyone is interested. I have removed the direct block on Jerome709 pending anything interesting from a checkuser. --B (talk) 22:25, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

FYI to anyone following this, Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Magnonimous has proven Magnonimous and Jerome709 are working from the same computer. --B (talk) 14:54, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Continued ban evasion by Arthur Ellis

Community-banned user Arthur Ellis (talk · contribs) now seems to be using 209.217.93.84 (talk · contribs). I think we need a block here (which would be his fourth this week). For more background, please see see Category:Suspected Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Arthur Ellis. See also Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Warren Kinsella#Log of blocks and bans. Thanks, Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 19:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Possibly bear Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Rachel Marsden in mind? There may be a case for letting him edit this one article. Moreschi 19:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Uh, did you read the Proposed Decision page of the case that you just cited? Arthur Ellis was banned by Arbcom from editing articles relating to Canadian politics and the blogosphere, then had his ban widened for having violated the first ban by editing Rachel Marsden. Then the community hardbanned him for continued ban evasion, and the Arbcom rejected his appeal of the community ban. You might also want to check out the vandalism in the edit histories of the Arbcom pages that you just cited; most of it is from Arthur Ellis IP ranges. If an edit needs to be made to that article surely someone other than a long-term Misplaced Pages vandal and serial BLP violator can do it. Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 19:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

At the time of the Rachel Marsden RFAR the ArbCom judged Ellis's edits to be in accordance with BLP. Moreschi 20:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Are you seriously questioning whether Athur Ellis is a serial BLP violator? Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 20:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Not at all. I'm simply saying he's unlikely to be violating BLP on this article. Moreschi 20:11, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

BLP applies to all people mentioned in an article. He violated it today with this edit: But moreover you are missing the point of banning someone from the project. When someone has given us a stream of vandalism and harassment, we want that person to and stop interacting with us and to forget about Misplaced Pages. Back to my original point: If an edit needs to be made, anyone can make it and defend it. If you need more eyes on the article, why not ask the thousands of active editors in good standing to watch it instead of inviting back (of all the people in the world) a long-term vandal and serial BLP violator? Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 20:25, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Without prejudice to continuing the above discussion, could someone block this IP please? Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 23:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Static IP - 100% link spam

76.16.242.32 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 100% link spam indicates static IP. Final warning. Non current. Thanks -- John (Daytona2 · talk) 20:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Blocked for a month Theresa Knott | The otter sank 20:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Ooops... I think we block-conflicted - I just blocked the IP for 31 hours. Though I have no problem with a month. MastCell 20:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Given that it occurs each weekend, a block that covers, at the least, next weekend would be more effective, thanks -- John (Daytona2 · talk) 20:35, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I've extended it to 1 month, as per Theresa's original inclination. MastCell 20:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

User:FCYTravis

This user is making useless edits to bypass redirects in violation of Misplaced Pages:Redirect#Do not change links to redirects that are not broken. When I explain this, he calls me "an insensate policy wonk". What should be done? --NE2 20:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Diffs or articles concerned? Avruchtalk 20:47, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

FCYTravis (talk · contribs) is making perfectly valid points on your talk page. I don't see the issue with changing a piped link that heads to a redirect into a piped link that goes directly to the target article. This is a completely pointless revert and an edit war worth WP:LAME if it continues. Please find a way to solve this dispute that needs no admin intervention... — Scientizzle 20:49, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

The issue is that they are useless edits, and should not be encouraged. They also increase page size. --NE2 20:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

It's more useless to edit war and argue over harmless, if useless, edits. — Scientizzle 21:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

If it stops the useless edits, it might be worth it. --NE2 21:15, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely not. Edit warring is by defenition more harmfull then a harmless edit. The only reason WP:REDIR states not to change links is to prevent confusion over future articles that may be created in the context of that link. The edits you are warring over do not fall under that reason, as these redirects only apply to spelling of a link, not it's meaning. — Edokter • Talk • 22:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Moldopodo (talk · contribs) & Ungurul (talk · contribs)

Moldopodo complains about Ungurul

User:Ungurul, before vandalising the article Balti steppe, has never said anything on the relevant talk page. Further, this user has simply replaced every word "steppe" with "depression" and also added diacritics signs everywhere. None of these edits were justified. For none of these edits has user Ungurul tried to reach a consensus in advance. --Moldopodo (talk) 20:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC)Moldopodo

User:Ungurul, also present on German speaking Misplaced Pages (according to me, as uses exact same insults and numerous personal attacks), - ref. , , on French speaking Misplaced Pages ref. , , , , on Romanian speaking Misplaced Pages (was blocked for obsceneities written in Romanian) ref., . User Ungarul was asked to stop personally attacking me under the above mentioned user names on all Wikipedias, to stop insult/personally attack me and vandalise disussion pages by repeatedly deleting sections containing discussion and research of consensus on the proper city name in the cocnerend language, namely on French Misplaced Pages).--Moldopodo (talk) 19:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC)Moldopodo

Further explication of User:uNgarul's actions may be also found at my talk page, and namely at its edits history (the same applies for other language version Wikipedias). thank you for your time.--Moldopodo (talk) 20:42, 30 December 2007 (UTC)Moldopodo

Ungurul complains about Moldopodo

Can one look about the behaviour of this user? He was blocked for a week, now is again trolling and being disruptive. I mean this guy is not accepting official name of cities and he's been blocked in others wikipedia as well. See French wikipedia for example. Moldopodo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and http://fr.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=Utilisateur:Moldopodo --Ungurul (talk) 20:34, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

FYI, Ungurul (talk · contribs) has recently been blocked for harrasing Moldopodo (talk · contribs). These two just can't get along... — Scientizzle 20:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I was not harrasing him, I just asked him on his talk page something. One can see my edit there. A very innocent question. Ungurul (talk) 20:41, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

For better or worse, Misplaced Pages projects are completely autonomous, at least in regards to user conduct, so whatever actions Moldopodo has undertaken on other projects should not be taken into account here. Whether he accepts official names or not is a personal matter. What should matter here is his conduct in seeking or following consensus and generally abiding by Misplaced Pages guidelines. I agree that Moldopodo has not been the ideal editor in those respects, but to be fair, you have also breached various policies, and Moldopodo's actions should be seen in the light of these mitigating circumstances. TSO1D (talk) 20:46, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree that he's being very disruptive. I see that others from other Misplaced Pages also dealt with him properly. By blocking him. Ungurul (talk) 20:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but I blocked him once, and I'm not going to do it again on your say so. You can both get along, or you can both be blocked. You are being as bad as each other. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 20:51, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

No, because I simply revert his POV pushing and I respected the rules. He didn't accepted even the consensus on talk page. See that he's reverting. Ungurul (talk) 20:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

See his disruptive trolling on Talk:Bălţi 20:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I strongly contest the statement that I did not look for consensus. Please check relevant talk pages on any language on Balti, Balti steppe, everywhere I engage in the research of consensus and discussion, everywhere I always source my edits, and may be I am too strict by requesting the same from others. Also, User:TSO1D please provide a diff for your statements and namely where I personally attack User:Ungurul. To avoid repetetive attacks from user Ungurul, please find below a copy of my unblock request, where all is explained with diffs: Misplaced Pages 3RR says: reverts to remove simple and obvious vandalism, such as graffiti or page blanking – this exception applies only to the most simple and obvious vandalism, the kind that is immediately apparent to anyone reviewing the last edit. It is not sufficient if the vandalism is simply apparent to those contributing to the article, those familiar with the subject matter, or those removing the vandalism itself. (For other, less obvious forms of vandalism, please see Misplaced Pages:Administrator intervention against vandalism or Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents); In the present case, User Ungurul (just as User Dc76) never tried to reach consensus or to prove whatsoever, they just simply pushed through their unjustified personal opinion, without any single reference to a verifiable source, nor any other type of explication (talk page is empty), which is moreover, their personal invention called 'Balti depression'. How can you reach any consensus or any discussion if the person is not writing anything on the talk page. The only thing Dc76 wrote on the talk page (Balti steppe does not exist, that's why it will br moved to Balti depression). Please, have a look at just some randomly googled and selected links I have provided on the Balti steppe talk page (http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Balti_steppe), check also references and link on the last version of Balti steppe article itself, as edited by myself last time (http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Balti_steppe&oldid=179776522). User Ungurul. nor User Dc76 had not even tried to present any proof on the talk page. That's why it is mere vandalism and that's why the 3RR rule should not apply to me in this case. User Ungurul has edited much more than myself and violated 3RR much more times. Even if you consider my edits as "reverts", please check attentively, as I was continuing to write portions of the article this morning, user Ungurul kept deleting it and renaming it in the same time. These were not proper reverts from my side as I was continuously adding new text, pictures, links, etc... Also, Balti steppe is a widely known and studied gegraphic phenomenon, it is an established name for grassland type in Moldova. To the contrary Balti depression simply does not exist and the first time I saw this was from User Dc76. I also understad why no justification or attempt to find consensus was found on the Balti steppe talk page. It simply because there is nothing to prove it (google 'balti depression' and you will find 0 results pertaining to the topic). Not only the term is inexistent, the geographic phenomenon of Balti depression is inexistent as well. Look now at Balti steppe talk page, where I provided a random selection of available on internet references to Balti steppe, check also references on the Balti steppe article itself(http://www.biotica-moldova.org/ECO-NET/part6-2-2.htm) and and Britannica Encyclopedia (http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9012051/Balti), but also: Scientific Ph. D. Research dated 2006 on Fertility of Chernozem in Balti Steppe (Beltskaya Steppe/Бельцкая степь in Russian)(http://www.cnaa.acad.md/files/theses/2006/5617/stanislav_stadnic_abstract_ru.pdf), press article in the major Moldavian newspaper (http://www.nm.md/daily/article/2003/06/03/0000.html), travel company site(http://www.spectrumtravel.md/eng/country.php?c=3&cid=13), Draft Assessment Report for establishing a national environment and natural resource information network compatible with the UNEP/GRID (http://enrin.grida.no/htmls/moldova/md_assm.htm), Beltsy Steppe(http://www.justmaps.org/flags/europe/moldova.asp), Belcy Steppe in Columbia Encyclopedia 2007 sixth edition, link to European Commission mentioning Balti Steppe (http://www.coe.int/t/e/cultural_co-operation/environment/nature_and_biological_diversity/ecological_networks/the_emerald_network/Pilot_project_Moldova.asp), National Council for Accreditation and Attestation www.cnaa.acad.md (http://www.cnaa.acad.md/en/thesis/5617/), Ministry of Environment and Territorial Arrangement (http://enrin.grida.no/biodiv/biodiv/national/moldova/Biodiv.htm) etc. etc... Balti steppe article is properly sourced. Have you found any source for Balti depression? This is why the 3RR should not apply to me, or rather apply, but with its exception. User Ungurul clearly violated the 3RR and this more than once, bringing all vandalism to the article. Please tell me why did you not unblock me taking in consideration the disruptive vandalsising editing undertaken by User:Ungurul, as suggested initially by User:Dc76, and why if you intend to keep me blocked, why was I blocked for one week and User:Ungurul for 24 hours. I would also like to check users for socket pupetting User:Bonaparte, User:Ungurul (uses exact same agressive style, does not listen to arguments and does not provide any sources, edits exclusively on Romania and Moldavia related topics), Utilisateur:William_Pedros (on French speaking Misplaced Pages http://fr.wikipedia.org/Utilisateur:William_Pedros) (exact same style, calling me right off "vandal"), User: 89.185.33.40 (exact same editing style, calling my sourced edits "vandalism") and User:Dc76 (initiator of the page move); also User: 89.185.33.40 used exact same language as Dc76: "pushing POV, bordering vandalism, and edited only on Romania and Moldova related articles, namely to make sure that Dc76's edits or ideas are brought back. Thank you very much in advance for your answer and most importantly: "Happy Christmas!" (even if you do not celebrate it today)--Moldopodo (talk) 21:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)Moldopodo

There is no way I'm reading that whole thing. Can you just discuss it without edit-warring or making personal attacks? Is that really so much to ask? Avruchtalk 21:03, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Now you can see all how disruptive he is. Imagine how he destroyed all the articles with huge talk pages like this one. Yet, he said he never attacked me or he was never beeen disruptive. This guy is a troll, and a vandal. No wonder he was blocked so many times. Ungurul (talk) 21:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I repeat, there was no single personal attack from my side regarding User:Ungurul, however, there were plenty from his side in my regard, and the last one just here. Please, do take some time and have a look through my arguments and presented diffs. --Moldopodo (talk) 21:06, 30 December 2007 (UTC)Moldopodo

Everyone can see, now you'll be blocked for good. People are tired of you and your vandalisme and trolling. --Ungurul (talk) 21:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

and User:Ungurul continues:, aslo check how User:Ungurul renamed this whole section "Banning user Moldopodo"--Moldopodo (talk) 21:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)Moldopodo

Don't worry, you're just a vandal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Moldopodo

• 13:22, 23 December 2007 FisherQueen (Talk | contribs) blocked "Moldopodo (Talk | contribs)" (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 1 week ‎ (Edit warring)
• 21:10, 26 November 2007 Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (Talk | contribs) unblocked Moldopodo (Talk | contribs) ‎ (on the proviso that he not go edit-warring again, espcially on romanian-related articles)
• 21:03, 25 November 2007 AGK (Talk | contribs) blocked "Moldopodo (Talk | contribs)" (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 31 hours ‎ (disruptive editing: edit warring in order to push a particular opinion, anti-consensus edits despite repeated warnings, failure to heed cautions, et cetera)
• 20:42, 19 November 2007 Nat (Talk | contribs) blocked "Moldopodo (Talk | contribs)" (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 24 hours ‎ (Edit warring)

Time to block both?

New section header so this doesn't get lost in the flurry of polemics above. I propose that these two editors are both acting disruptive. If each continues to rail against the other here (and in other forums, such at article talk pages and admin talk pages fishing for blocks) they would best serve the project by losing editing privelages. You two have a content dispute, and Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution is the proper forum. — Scientizzle 21:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

That's just what I was thinking when reviewing this mess of a thread. I'd support a block of both for mutual disruptive unpleasantness and wastage of WP:ANI bytes. Sandstein (talk) 21:22, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

• Support I'd support a double block; neither of them seems able or willing to just discuss their disagreement like reasonable adults, and I'm tired of them looking to us to referee this lame edit-war. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I accept to be blocked for one month if Moldo is blocked also. Anyway, I was the good guy here, because I didn't accept to change official names and I was not disruptive and I didn't fill huge talk pages like he did. One can check. Ungurul (talk) 21:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

And also please remark that everything was OK until he get unblocked. He was blocked for a week last time. Ungurul (talk) 21:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

You sound like a child. Shut up. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 21:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I am a child. But he is not. Ungurul (talk) 21:29, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

• Support--Hu12 (talk) 21:30, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Blocked I've blocked them both for 14 days. When the blocks expire, anything more disruptive than good-faith dispute resolution, if necessary, won't be tolerated. — Scientizzle 21:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Scientizzle. Moldopodo and Ungurul, when your blocks expire you're welcome to contribute to the peaceful resolution of this content dispute at Talk:Bălţi steppe. Euryalus (talk) 00:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Account of Moldopodo unblocked. You failed to look into user contribution history. For last 7 days I see no disruption of wikipedia editing. This is an outrageous abuse of admin privileges. `'Míkka>t 05:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

An "outrageous abuse of admin privileges"? I fully disagree. I won't revert your solitary sysop undo of a supported (see above) admin action without discussion. But I'm nonplussed. These two, continually bickering over many, many pages, was considered disruptive by several editors. — Scientizzle 07:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

There has be no discussion or support for an unblock, nor has an attempt been made to contanct the blocking admin prior to it. Wheel warring is considered improper behavior for an administrator.--Hu12 (talk) 07:22, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm also concerned about this unilateral unblock, which I think is in very bad form, and about your comment, which I think is unbecoming an administrator. I fail to see what relevance a previous lack of disruption by Moldopoldo has in this affair. Also, a statement such as "outrageous abuse of admin privileges" is way out of line considering the support expressed for this action above. Mikkalai, I recommend that you retract that statement and reinstate the block of Moldopoldo. Sandstein (talk) 07:32, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I recommend y'all stop wikilawyering upon me and address the issue: for the last week there was no any disruption of article ediing from the side of Moldopodo. Your refusal to admit an error confirms my opinion about certain attitude about way too trigger-happy administratitis. The fact taht he person is kinda inconvenient does not mean taht you have to hit in on head after the first cry wolf wthout looking into the essence. If you disagee with me please provide example of the disruption and we shall talk. It is especially outrageous that an attempt to involve more people to resolve a conflict between the two by posting in this page was an argument in favor of block instead of help. What is wrong with you people? Did they spoil your holiday supper or what? <sadly shaking the head> `'Míkka>t 08:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

P.S. The expression "I fail to see what relevance a previous lack of disruption by Moldopoldo has in this affair" makes me wonder: who of us is crazy? Or wikilawyers already concocted a policy that you may ban a person for last year snow? `'Míkka>t 08:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

One important note: There was no disruption from Moldopodo for a week at least partially because he was blocked for the week of December 23-December 30. I'm willing to concede that maybe Ungurul (talk · contribs) was a bigger problem in this case, but Moldopodo not being disruptive on articles during his or her week-long block for edit warring is hardly a strong argument for an unblock. I'm a reasonable guy and will listen to reasoned arguments, and had this been brought up to me directly I may have been convinced to unblock the account myself. — Scientizzle 17:23, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Any reasonable editor can see thusfar that this discussion as has the previous ones, contradicts an unblock. and by no means could this discussion be consrude or intrpereted as a consensus for an unblock. More troubling is your confrontational attitude, and rejection of community input and its consensus process.--Hu12 (talk) 08:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I consider myself a reasonable editor and I have to say I was uncomfortable about the block of Moldopodo. What exactly (with diffs please) did he do wrong? Theresa Knott | The otter sank 09:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how I feel about this unblock, because whereas I have often disagreed in the past with user Moldopodo, and he always describes me as his nemesis, I think that in this case he did not really do anything severe enough to deserve a two week ban (or any ban for that matter). However since both he and Ungurul were blocked simultaneusly for their mutual conflict, I think that since Moldopodo has been unblocked, Ungurul's block should also be reviewed and shortened if not completely set aside. TSO1D (talk) 18:36, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Ungurul was persistently teasing and harassing moldopodo and I am strongly against the unblock. On the contrary, Moldopodo was discussing unguru's ridiculous edits mixed with lies. This very thread was started with false accusation by ungurul. Super-admins decided to play annoyed unstead of looking into the matter. `'Míkka>t 19:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree with you. No one (including myself) looked into the matter deeply enough. I am strongly opposed to unblocking Ungural who was clearly only trying to get Moldopodo blocked; clearly disruptive in my book. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 19:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I agree that ungurul's actions were more severe and that he should not be immediatly unblocked. However, since both users were banned for engaging in a disruptive conflict more than anything specific, it seems hardly fair to pardon one of the users and let the other serve the full block. So I reduced Ungurul's block to three days. If any of them starts edit warring or engaging in personal attacks, the original block should be reinstated. Actually it might be wise to do a Checkuser on Ungurul, he could be a sock of Bonnie and then the result would be clear. My actions were based on the assumption that he was a new user. TSO1D (talk) 19:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

←A few points, some I've previously stated above:

• Ungurul (talk · contribs) was clearly disruptive and a block to this account appears to be well-supported, even if it has been shortened.
  • Any sockpuppet suspicions should have been brought up much earlier and much clearer. If this is possibly a banned user causing trouble again, that would have been nice to know yesterday.
• Moldopodo (talk · contribs) was sucked into this by the frenetic accusations of Ungurul, and I'm willing to concede that Moldopodo appears was less deserving of a block (of any length) than Ungurul. Moldopodo's statements and actions in this last round were light-years more appropriate than Ungurul.
  • That said, the statement that Moldopodo hadn't caused any disruptions over the last week is misinformative, as Moldopodo was blocked for a week on December 23 and couldn't cause any disruption during that time.
• I am sufficiently ignorant of the details of Eastern European geography that I am ill-equipped to analyze all of the "factual" statements thrown around in this and other forums. The content disagreements between these users that has previously resulted in numerous edit wars and blocks for both. The repeated characterization of each others' edits as vandalism and trolling had the distinct feel of an overly heated content dispute, one in which neither party was willing to tone down the attitudes or rhetoric.
• Moldopodo has starred in previous ANI threads: edit war with Dc76 (talk · contribs); complaints about TSO1D (talk · contribs); complaining about admin Nat (talk · contribs) as well as TSO1D; more TSO1D v. Moldopodo; and more here and here and here and the most recent iteration. And there have been at least suspicions of abusive puppetry by Moldopodo, too. In any case, I did see much of this prior to my enacted block (despite claims otherwise): Moldopodo has displayed some tendencies of the classic tendentious editor, focuses all efforts on a particularly tendentious arena, and has certainly conflicted with other tendentious types. This sort of resume, admittedly, often makes other uninvolved editors (myself included) less patient with drama-producing (or alleged drama-producing) edit warriors in more esoteric fields. This is futher compounded by Moldopodo's communication style that makes it difficult to wade through his/her side of the various issues. All of this combined quickly sapped my patience, I admit.
• Finally, I object to a few things specific to mikkalai (talk · contribs):
  • My block summary was not a "false reason" as you claimed in your unblock summary (though I should have selected "disruptive" over "edit warring") and the lack of disruption in the prior week is a sham of a defense (vis-à-vis Moldopodo’s week-long block during said period).
  • Making statements like "User ungurul is an ignorant arrogant person and suspected sockpuppet" does nothing to defuse the situation (without evidence or elaboration on the sock allegation) and can appear to be evidence of a bias on your part, deserved or not.
  • Characterizing my action as "an outrageous abuse of admin privileges" is more than a touch hyperbolic.
  • Had you brought any of this up on my talk page or via email before unblocking I would have listened carefully; I am very comfortable admiting and resolving any mistake I may make. I hope you and other editors will not hesitate, if necessary, in the future, to contact me prior to any unilateral action opposing or undoing my adminstrative activites.

— Scientizzle 22:54, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• All this smoke and mirror does not address the one and only basic question: which exactly disruption happened during the last week that warranted a very long block. BTW a nice move to turn tables and turn discussion into how bad I am. I describe the action in question as blatant abuse of admin privileges and you did nothing to change my opinion. And I will act exactly the same way when I see the one next time, and you may sue me. I may give a slack to a childish anon vandal and warn him 3 times before blocking, but we are talking about inappropriate acions of admins here. I could have understood that you alone misjudged in a hurry, but when I saw several of you banding up into a lynch mob chanting: "I don't want to read all this bullshit he wrote, just hang him high block him deep and done with it!", it really ticked me off. `'Míkka>t 23:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

And your stubborn attitude is glossing over that I have admitted to some mistakes and also explained some of the mindset in which I worked. A good-faith mistake is not the same as abuse. There's no smoke and mirrors here. I am in no way describing way in which you are "bad", I just noted a couple of specific things about your response that could have been done differently (better, in my opinion) to reduce drama, namely discussing directly with me your opinions. I see nothing more that needs to be done here (all blocks are set to everyone's satisfaction?), but I'll welcome any further comments on my own talk page. — Scientizzle 01:11, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, I admit that I was not reading very carefully your preceding detailed response and your admission of mistake was lost from me. For that I apologize. I have already explained that were you alone, I would not make any fuss of it. The real problem is how you managed to get an unanimous support in this page. I understand that one person can make a mistake sometimes. But really worrisome was that several people here happily displayed a mob attitude without minimal inspection. It took me only 3 seconds do realize that moldopodo cound not have possibly done something bad during last week. And it does not really matter whether he was blocked or was busy boinking his girlfriend. I may only conclude that the miltuperson decision was made based on a hearsay and vague memories taht yes this guy was nuisance in the past, let's nuke him now. And this is way not the first time I see this attitude. I don't care what opinion you will have about me after this, as long as you and other who reads this be less jumpy to conclusions next time. `'Míkka>t 01:57, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Jim62sch

See this edit.

User:Jim62sch disagrees with my editing style, although he didn't see fit to really explain why in my sole previous encounter with him (and, per his comment there, was quite flippant about the idea of providing a reason in an RfA). However, this sort of comment is beyond the pale. I'm being treated like some sort of vandal, or serial abuser of the system, and don't deserved to be talked about derisively in the third person on random article talk pages.

His last comment on his own talk page, along with the general attitudes conveyed within, suggest that this is indeed what I should expect from him in future. I'm not sure how to handle this, especially as I'd rather not go through the same torrent of personal abuse and pointed insults as I did from the group of editors in question as I did during my RfA. However, while walking away from homeopathy entirely was okay (first step: back off), I'm not prepared to simply keep retreating every time I'm attacked like this. Suggestions? Chris Cunningham (talk) 21:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

The first edit you cite is out of line, although I don't see the relevance of the other two edits. I've given Jim62sch a WP:NPA warning, and a link to this thread. Sandstein (talk) 21:32, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Rather than handing out a template warning I'd have been inclined to ask why Jim, who joined Misplaced Pages over two years ago and has over 8,000 mainspace edits, should consider that drive-by edits without discussion are characteristic of Thumperward. YMMV, of course; I have become so cynical that my first reaction to any report by a user I do not know is to investigate their behaviour. Guy (Help!) 21:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure we'll hear Jim's side of the story soon, and I have now changed my template warning to a more personal one. Still, even if Thumperward should turn out to have conduct problems of his own, edits such as this are not acceptable under WP:NPA. Sandstein (talk) 21:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

That would be the "assuming good faith" part. I joined WP more than two years ago and have > 10k mainspace edits. The links I provided show why Jim responded like this: a spat with User:Orangemarlin over homeopathy three weeks ago which resulted in a heavy battering of my RfA by sympathetic editors (including Jim62sch) with whom I'd had no previous interaction. I'd hoped to resolve this by walking away from the article, but that's apparently not working. Chris Cunningham (talk) 21:56, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Walking away from which article?

In any case Chris, when you make substantial edits to an article, edits that significantly change the article (especially a featured article), and neither leave messages nor engage in any discussion on the perceived merits of your edits it is quite difficult to WP:AGF. The edits appear to be just as I said: hit and run changes. I'll note that PL, an excellent editor and the main writer on the article, has left very cogent statements here. Apparently the merits of your edits are escaping both of us.

Finally, given that I made an observation of the behaviour of the editor, not of the personality of the editor, I fail to see how NPA applies. No offense, Chris, but the manner you went about making the changes was simply wrong and keep in mind that at no point did I claim that you were a vandal or serial abuser of the system.

Note, Chris, I could claim a vio of NPA on your part given your comments above and the fact that you felt the need to include unrelated diffs in an effort to "sully" my reputation. Of course, I won't, as I'm not into silly tit-for-tat games, but I definitely could. Cheers. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149; 11:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with the way I was editing: I'm following WP:BRD, and I've replied to PL on talk now that he's explained his reasons for reverting. I feel that your attack on me on the Nostradamus talk page is a continuance of my previous (albeit vicarious) interaction with you on the homeopathy article and my RfA. Misrepresenting my edit history in a manner which is clearly intended to be derogatory ("glad you caught him") was clearly meant to be insulting, and bringing it up here (when frankly I didn't feel safe bringing it up on your user talk) is in no way a personal attack. Chris Cunningham (talk) 12:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Hardly bullying, given what passes for civility these days, and the NPA warning seems excessive. Again, admin warnings require having a sense of proportion in addition to diligence. FeloniousMonk (talk) 14:40, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

So, Chris, you can read intent? Really? So much for that there WP:AGF stuff (at least as a universal concept, anyway). You don't feel safe on my page? I'm sorry Chris, but I don't even know how to address that one ... to the best of my knowledge my page isn't booby-trapped and the same folks that frequent my page frequent this page as well, so I'm afraid I just can't see the genesis for any fear. Nope, I just can't.

Oh wait, was it this? Well, quite honestly, yes the teacher will find his career ended when the school board informs him that it is in his best interest to resign. See, that's known as exercising one's political power -- just like the parents did in Dover. The board members found their careers ended. If someone harms my children in some way, you can be sure that I'll take legal action to rectify the injury (as I did with a school disciplinarian who is no longer employed by the school district). Not that this has anything to do with Misplaced Pages, but since you brought it up ... &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149; 17:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

You mean Chris Cunningham is pressing this An/I because a bunch of us voted against him in the RfA???? Are you serious???? You were battered at the RfA because of YOUR behavior at Homeopathy. My friends did not show up to batter you, it is in fact a group of editors here who observe a whole host of articles, making certain that the NPOV is strictly followed. I would suggest heartily that you spend a few moments to consider that these baseless accusations against very good and very prolific editors are only going to hurt you. OrangeMarlin 18:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I was going to ignore the RfA comment thing, but, now that you mentioned it (the RfA that is), there is something I'd like to reclarify:

As I posted at the RfA, "I don't think explaining one's reasoning is imperative, or even necessary in the case of RFA's as they are functionally elections. Explaining one's reasons in such a venue may be a nicety but it is hardly a requirement."

Explaining oneself on article discussion pages on the other hand is, if not required, damned close to it.

Odd, I hadn't even realised the connection between Chris being mad at the outcome of his RfA and this AN/I. I must have been exercising too much of that there WP:AGF.  :) &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149; 19:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I am very sorry to see the RfA material being dredged up again. I was hoping, and I still hope, to support Chris in the future when he is put up again for admin. In fact, that has been my plan. However, if this is going to be used as an excuse to blow every tiny dispute up into a huge mess and for recriminations to be slung around, this makes me wonder about maturity levels, and readiness for more responsibility here on Misplaced Pages. Chris, just try to show some class so I can support you wholeheartedly next time around for admin, ok?--Filll (talk) 20:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I've been the victim of Jim62sch's off-wiki harassment techniques in the past; this is something that has even been called to Jimbo's attention (and Jimbo promised a blockban, though it unfortunately never happened). I'm willing to provide the evidence by e-mail to any established user that asks. Videmus Omnia 20:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Are you serious? You're going to bring in outside evidence? Oh, yeah, I remember you. You battled Jim and others over your aggressive stance on images. That's just a content dispute. Let's get real around here. OrangeMarlin 20:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, another member of the club. You don't believe Jim would engage in off-wiki harrassment? Jim threatened to contact my employer on a suspicion that I was editing Misplaced Pages from my employer's network. After viewing his e-mail, Jimbo said "In my opinion, that's enough to ban Jim62Sch right there. This is not the kind of person I want participating in Misplaced Pages, period, full stop.". Unfortunately there was no followup. Videmus Omnia 20:49, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Since I'd rather see it than believe it, where's the diff? And let's see if there was any context. Because Jim is here. And what club? And did I say Jim wouldn't engage in off-wiki harassment? Honestly, how much drama do you enjoy having around here? Since I'm a huge supporter of protection of Intellectual Property rights of owners (for example, I don't think music should be freely shared without explicit permission of the copyright holder), you will note that I rarely supported anyone who "steals" intellectual property. Moreover, you could have my support in these disputes over images, except you aren't very nice to those who "oppose" you. I think you are the perfect example of WP:KETTLE with respect to Jim. But since this isn't about you, and it's about Thumperward getting overly upset about Jim, let's stick to that issue and only that issue. OrangeMarlin 21:55, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I've forwarded the evidence to the ArbCom mailing list, as it includes addressees whose names should remain confidential at their request. However, I'm now starting to wonder if I was just being jerked off in the responses to my earlier complaints to to keep me from raising a stink, seeing how exactly nothing has happened in response to pretty serious allegations, except for some "I feel your pain" responses. Videmus Omnia 21:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

(ri)Go for it. However, you seem to forget that as a federal employee it is my duty to try to stop waste, fraud and abuse in the federal government, and this includes the military. That's not harrassment, sarge, that's known as doing one's duty as a civil servant as described by the OGE. Do you really want to take this further? Feel free to, if you wish, but I doubt it'll prove satisfactory to anyone. Why you felt the need to bring this up here is beyond me, but so be it. The simple fact of the matter is that the federal government and the military have a limited personal use policy regarding PC's. Enough said? &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149; 23:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

What is this, some kind of blackmail attempt? Videmus Omnia 23:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

This needs to go to arbitration ... seriously. Contacting employers of good faith Misplaced Pages editors (or threatening to do so) is unacceptable. --B (talk) 23:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Wait a minute. VO is a Federal Employee, a military NCO at that? And you're on here on wasting MY taxes? And trust me, I do NOT pay a tiny amount towards the management of this government. OrangeMarlin 23:49, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Geez B, I thought you quit and you'd only worry about that 3rd rate technical school in Virginia. Now you're threatening Jim, and he doesn't care about the 3rd rate technical school in Virginia either. But as for contacting employers, yeah too bad, but he's a military NCO, he deserves what he gets. And if Jim is using federal computers to come here, then turnabout is fair play. OrangeMarlin 23:53, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

No, I haven't wasted your tax dollars, I've only edited while off-duty. I even double-checked following Jim62sch's earlier spurious allegation to make sure. So I'm not susceptible to extortion in this regard. Videmus Omnia 23:58, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to suggest we take a step back here and think about what kind of environment we want to edit in. I'm well aware of the federal government's policies on computer use; many, if not most, private employers have similar (though usually less draconian) policies. Yet I would venture to guess that quite a few editors contribute during their work hours. Do we really want to suggest that any of these users, should they make the mistake of providing too much identifying info, be at risk of real-life disciplinary action at their job as a result of good-faith contributions to Misplaced Pages? If that's the precedent we set, then it's going to create an atmosphere that drives away useful contributions and editors. I have a lot of respect for Jim and OrangeMarlin, but I'm really uncomfortable with the direction in which this is heading. MastCell 00:04, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

If anyone (Jimbo?) can confirm VO's claims, I think this user should clearly be banned. I usually agree with you on articles, OrangeMarlin, but you seem way out of line here. Maybe the SA block and all of this drama has gotten to you. I think you should take a brief wikibreak for your own sake. Cool Hand Luke 01:39, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd object to a ban on the grounds that I've yet to see any evidence of actual bullying. I'm not even sure of why think anyone here would need to take a wikibreak. FeloniousMonk (talk) 01:43, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I've filed a request for arbitration. Videmus Omnia 01:46, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

OrangeMarlin appears to say that threatening government employees should be acceptable because he pays a lot of taxes. I think the argument betrays a lot of accumulated wikistress, and sincerely and sympathetically believe that OrangeMarlin should celebrate the New Year away from the internet. Cool Hand Luke 01:55, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Neutralhomer removing WP:CfR tags from categories

User:Neutralhomer is in the process of removing WP:CfR tags from numerous radio station categories which are currently being discussed at Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 December 29#Category:Radio stations in CITY. I have, for the last few weeks, refused any communication with NH on my talk page because he doesn't listen to what I tell him and has prohibited me from posting on his. He questioned my placing of these tags on the categories on my talk page, and I broke my silence to tell him to follow the links and join the discussion. I don't know if he did or not, but he has now removed all the notices using Twinkle, because I apparently can't respond in a timely enough fashion for him and walk him through what a CfD is.

His edit summaries using Twinkle imply that, in my belief, every time I make an edit he doesn't understand, I have to explain it to him or he will revert it. He's repeatedly ignored my edit summaries, and I refuse to be his tutor in these situations.

What is my best course of action in this circumstance? JPG-GR (talk) 21:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Neutralhomer appears to have been warned and blocked. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 21:40, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, he has now been blocked by Moreschi for 24 hours for his edits. Metros (talk) 21:40, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you all for your quick response to this matter. JPG-GR (talk) 21:44, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that Neutralhomer's ban of JPG-GR from his talk page is very unfair. They are clearly interacting, Neutralhomer addressed JPG-GR on JPG-GR's talk page, etc. --Iamunknown 21:47, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Neutralhomer's TWINKLE was also removed for 264 hours by Maxim. A good move. Metros (talk) 21:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Such "bans" probably violate some policy, but at any rate, they are to my knowledge not enforced by administrators and may be ignored. Sandstein (talk) 21:50, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

No, it's not enforced by administrators, however it is enforced by the users who make sure bans on their own talk pages by simply reverting without reading anything that gets posted there by the opposing side. Not exactly collaborative or civil if you ask me. Metros (talk) 21:56, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I know that they are not necessarily enforceable - in many cases, however, it seems best to abide by them if only in order to minimise drama. (I am speaking somewhat from my own experience being "banned".) That seems like JPG-GR's motive. But it seems inappropriate and uncollaborative for Neutralhomer to ban someone from his talk page with whom he is communicating and editing elsewhere. --Iamunknown 21:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, WP:OWN (I knew there was some relevant policy here...) probably does prohibit users from forbidding others from editing their talk pages. We have, though, no policy that forces someone to actually read or preserve comments posted on their talk page. Of course, some comments are ignored at one's own peril. Sandstein (talk) 22:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Suggest block of single-purpose account.

Hello. I would like to propose a block on Alykirk (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). It appears to be an SPA, created only for self-promotion. The user has only created the article Alyson Kirk three times, then created Talk:Alyson Kirk twice. The user did not read over WP:N and WP:BIO, although it was cited several times. She now says she will become notable in a few days by creating YouTube videos about how she was mistreated by Misplaced Pages. Does anyone think this account should be blocked? Thanks. JetLover (talk) (Report a mistake) 21:44, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I have protected the article Alyson Kirk for six months, which should solve the problem. Sandstein (talk) 21:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

We can protect articles that haven't been created? Cool! Theresa Knott | The otter sank 21:54, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's a new feature. WP:PT is now historical. Sandstein (talk) 21:59, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

User:AL2TB

This user's talk page is hard to read. When I went to make a post on the user's talk page (which I never posted because someone else beat me to it), I was completely distracted by the font. I noticed a section where another user commented on the font: User talk:AL2TB#Your Talk page. I, Son (talk · contribs), added an additional comment. The response the user gave was "Follow the advice above, or maybe check your eyesight."

What should be done in this situation? --Son (talk) 22:06, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I looked and it wasn't that hard to read, just my 2 cents. — Save_Us_229 22:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, nothing needs to be done. He was nicely asked to change the font because it was hard to read. He would prefer not to change it. It's his talk page, and he's allowed, within reason, to format it as he chooses; most users know how to use their own browsers to enlarge and reduce type on their screen. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

It instantly gave me a headache. But I don't think there is a policy for this type of thing. Bstone (talk) 22:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

How the font is rendered will depend on what browser you're using. I'm seeing two markedly different fonts (one bold and sans-serif and one non-bold and serifed) in Opera and Firefox, respectively. Neither is in the least unclear to me. I'd hate to see what it looks like in IE, though. --Dynaflow babble 22:18, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm seeing it the way it's probably intended to look, set in a curly decorative font that is illegible to me except at about a 500% zoom. This impedes proper communication, but I can't immediately find an applicable policy. Sandstein (talk) 22:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

There isn't such policy, but there is common sense. I can read the text just fine (curly font, etc, etc.), but in order to ensure clear communication, a better font needs to be used, since the font set right now is illegible to some, and it overrides the normal font(s). 哦，是吗？(O-person) 22:28, 30 December 2007 (GMT)

?? I'm looking using Firefox, and I don't see a curly decorative font, just a fairly ordinary typeface if in a rather small size. I didn't realize that some people were actually seeing an illegible page; sorry. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

That's probably because your system does not have that particular font installed. It seems to be invoked by passing the parameter «class="fn org"» to the table code containing the page's content. Sandstein (talk) 22:35, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

{{User:AL2TB/Userpage}} has font-family set to Curlz MT. 哦，是吗？(O-person) 22:37, 30 December 2007 (GMT)

What's worse; it's set to 10pt static, making scaling and enlarging impossible. I've changed it to 1.25em, so people can at least enlarge the letters. — Edokter • Talk • 22:44, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps I don't have the relevant fonts installed on this computer (my backup laptop), but I see nothing odd about the font or its size on this user's page. It's perfectly legible to me in 1280X800 mode in Firefox 2.0.0.11. Horologium (talk) 23:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, since EDoktor changed the parameters, the font now appears to be unpleasantly large on my display. Horologium (talk) 23:51, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

It comes with Microsoft Office on various platforms, according to its article, so those of us lucky enough not to have it installed are spared, by the sounds of things. Hmmm. Is this worth filing a MW bug request for? ("Ignore styles on other users' pages"?) Chris Cunningham (talk) 23:02, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

It'll probably be a rare enough problem that it wouldn't be worth the trouble. Besides, you can always click "edit this page" and everything goes to the standard font. --Dynaflow babble 23:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

There, I changed it to 8pt verdana. Are you all happy now? Also, regarding to the last post, that was exactly what I was trying to say on my talk page. AL2TB Gab or Tab 01:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Almost... Please use em as the size unit; pt is unscalable. — Edokter • Talk • 02:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Why is it necessary to have a scalable font? I like to keep things in tact, so the page looks the same when viewed by multiple browswers. AL2TB Gab or Tab 02:09, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Because some people set their browsers as such that it scales the text accordingly. Some people don't like to squint. 哦，是吗？(O-person) 02:11, 31 December 2007 (GMT)

Can you give me some more time, like about one week from today? I'm going to congifure it in a way that I like it and at the same time it could be legible to others. AL2TB Gab or Tab 02:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Apology

I want to state first and foremost and apology for ad hominen attacks on this website. However, what is more important to say is that I am not the vandal attacking Wookeepedia, nor am I EndoExo, GorgeHe, the Communism Vandal or any other troll on this site. I was only the CIyde Vandal and the Clap Vandal. I am trying to move on with life, and establish something more meaningful for myself. Therefore, I have no interest in childishly vandalizing and trolling this website as I had in the past. I am not sure how a CheckUser actually "confirmed" my vandalism as claimed by certain admins, but it isn't me. I actually edit productively on an anonymous account. Lastly, I understand why you would immediately delete this account and block my access to Misplaced Pages, but please listen and acknowledge the fact that I have discontinued vandalizing.

- Encyclopedist —Preceding unsigned comment added by Merdanda (talk • contribs) 22:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I doubt he is reformed, look at his edits to User talk:Merdanda. JetLover (talk) (Report a mistake) 23:20, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I was really hurt that he called me a faggot. I'm not a faggot, I'm a dyke- users who make inaccurate edits really shouldn't be editing at Misplaced Pages. :) -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 23:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Love it, FisherQueen. ...don't you wish your username was hot like me....don't ya? :-P miranda 23:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Errm, that's Jonny the Vandal / Mike Garcia, not Encyclopedist. WP:RBI is the cure for that guy - Alison 19:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Need help with a persistant vandal

Since Late September/Early October, I have been a watchdog over all of the General Motors minivan articles, because they were all under attack by a vandal who used a series of IPs to push POV into all of the articles, to make it seem that these minivans are the greatest to ever be devised by man (Which is false, its the Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Town and Country/Plymouth Voyager, but then again, thats my POV) and some of his revisions would cross the line into blatantly advertising the minivans, with him constantly adding POV into the Pontiac Montana article, talking about how it is superior to the greatest minivans ever devised by man. Anyways, I managed to get all of the GM minivan articles semi protected for a month (which expired just before Thanksgiving), and his IP rangeblocked, and he threw in the towel. But, there is still another Ip lurking around the Pontiac Montana page.

This vandal, whose most current IP is 99.224.59.58, keeps adding misinformation to the Montana article. Mainly, he keeps claiming that the Montana, which was discontinued in 2006 here in the States, but put on the life preserver until 2008 in Canada in Mexico, will continue production in the ladder two countries. He has made it obvious that he is nothing more than a fan of the GM minivans in denial. Now, I want you guys to understand that the facts are against him. GM is exiting the minivan market, and a;though it is stated that GM isn't exiting the minivan business forever they have no plans to produce another minivan unless they see they they are being demanded which they aren't. And although I have solid facts from the articles I have just given to support my reasoning of reverting his edits and writing him off as no more than a fan in denial, he never states a source for his reasoning, and his facts keep changing. He has said that the Montana will be redesigned, then said that it would simply continue production. He has never provided a source for this, just cited this article. Now, since the articles I cited have contradicted his views and this article. Plus, the average car only takes one and a half to two years to develop. Only in special cases, such as the Edsel and first generation Ford Taurus has it taken longer. Plus, since that article was written in 2006, if GM were to produce this minivan, they would have announced more information about it or would be unveiling it soon, so, in a nutshell, it is safe to say that this GMC minivan has been canned. But besides that, he has never cited a cource for this outragous claim, and has just said to contact General Motors Canada as they have no plans to discontinue the Montana.

This user has used two IPs, and has registered accounts to add the false info as well. All of the accounts are currently inactive, they are User:Stevecurwin, User:Stevecurwin01 (which has been blocked), User:Dongzhang. Plus, he registered the account User:GMCANADA to "praise" his sockpuppets, for "correcting the false into" about the Montana being discontinued. However, I don't know who he is trying to fool, as a company representative wouldn't leave messages with blatant typographical and grammer errors. An example of a message that this account would leave is here.

Since I am pretty much the only person that has combated this idiot, he has attacked me numerous time on my talk page, even saying that my account will be suspended if I continue to "add false info". He has also stated that he knows that the Montana will not be discontinued because he works for General Motors Canada , then said that he knows this because he has a friend who works for GM Canada , and this made me laugh, as he then said that GM Canada is watching me because I keep adding "false information" about their products. (Do you think that I need to enter witness protection?) Again, he has never provided a source for his claim that the Montana will continue production, he is now just telling us to contact General Motors Canada.

We have been through page protections and blocks with this guy, but it has just been going around with circles, as nothing is making him stop. I am bringing this problem here so we can finally find a permanent solution, so this doesn't carry on forever. Karrmann (talk) 23:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

• It looks like there is problematic editing here on both sides. Please note that blogs, like autoblog.com, are not reliable sources and should not be used to justify the inclusion of statements in articles. The easiest way to justify your statement is to find mainstream sources (say, something like Car & Driver) backing them up. *** Crotalus *** 01:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

obvious AFD socks

Lastchild is apparently using sock puppets to disrupt Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/ComicRack. S/he created the article. The socks are:

Solano2k (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Rzgofv (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Clayton.Aguiar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The users both have very few edits and used similar arguments in the AFD. JetLover (talk) (Report a mistake) 23:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Which of course is not true. I created this account to add an entry to my favorite ComicReader program (I guess almost everyone starts that way). I added an entry which was speed deleted in about 1 day. After a week i found out that a different person has made a ComicRack article. As it was marked again for deletion, I just added some comments to the deletion discussion board. I'm new to this wikipedia thing, but the experiences i had in the last 2 weeks have almost destroyed any liking i had for wikipedia. As i do not how to prove that i am not Lastchild, who this JetLover is, and in general in what beehive i've stuck my head, those who are in power here should do whatever they like. --Solano2k (talk) 23:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

To a normal user like me, seeing your first and only (non-deleted) edit looks a bit suspect. The use of "Do not delete" has also shown to indicate a relative new-ness to Wikipediam whereas veteran users use "Keep". Will 00:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Not sure if they're socks or not, but while rzgofv's argument looks like lastchild's, solano's did not to me, and in fact, i supported a "keep" based on his argument for parity between the file format and the software supporting it. ThuranX (talk) 00:13, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

AFD are discussions, not votes. So socks should not matter if they don't have valid arguments. I am not supporting socks but merely saying that the creators are wasting their energy.Congolese fufu (talk) 00:19, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

They don't appear to be socks through Checkuser; it might be the case that a call to action was posted to some website or mailing list, but these appear to be different people. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 00:22, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I removed Solano2k. Sorry. JetLover (talk) (Report a mistake) 00:46, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I originally commented on that AFD that it smelled like socks; specifically, User:Rzgofv made his first contribution there. I find it hard to believe that someone would create an account then make a beeline for AFD 21 minutes later. I brought this concern up with User:Snowolf but was told to WP:AGF. I did leave a note on User:Lastchild's talk page, but the user seems to have been offended, and accused me of personal attacks, so I just requested that they follow Misplaced Pages's policies and stepped back.

Also, I don't believe Solano2k is the same user; the style of writing and way that they formatted their comment on AfD was slightly different than Lastchild's, in a way that is pretty hard to fake. Master of Puppets 19:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Reincarnated copyvio uploader?

I believe that Colomero (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a reincarnation of Evis Daison Marrero (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who was indef-blocked for violations of the copyright policy. Colmero is re-uploading the deleted files of Evis Daison Marrero - for examples, see this and this (there are many more). Sufficient evidence for a block, or should I take this to checkuser? Videmus Omnia 01:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

This passes the WP:DUCK test for me. Indefinitely blocked. Sandstein (talk) 07:58, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Hijacking of my previous username

I don't know how it was done, but someone has usurped my previous username SolidPlaid (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and is using it to vandalize articles and sundry other mischief. Yesterday, an IP address, 4.130.134.233 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was blocked for 48 hours for abuse directed at me and other users. That IP address claimed that it had been editing since 2005, and called me a n00b, but its edit history started on Dec 30, 2007. This suggests sockpuppetry. How could my previous username have been usurped so quickly? Please make this person stop, and find out who they really are. AnteaterZot (talk) 01:45, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

That's your first stop. And as for sockpuppetry, I don't think it counts if you're using dynamic IPs, like one of our vandals do. —BoL 01:54, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I have asked over at checkuser. AnteaterZot (talk) 02:10, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• 65.33.92.12 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has attacked my userpage. AnteaterZot (talk) 02:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

About five hours ago! Whitstable (talk) 02:28, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

But pretty puzzling vandalism, yes Whitstable (talk) 02:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Now he's showing off; he is cycling through IPs; the latest is 85.127.111.61 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log).

I've protected your userpage for a week. Could you elaborate on your username? did you put in a request at WP:CHU when you changed to this name? Ryan Postlethwaite 02:36, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I changed my username at WP:CHU because people at my job found out what it was, and I didn't really want themm to know how much time I spend on Misplaced Pages. AnteaterZot (talk) 02:42, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I just blocked it for you, and Ryan protected your page. Cheers, Antandrus (talk) 02:36, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

How odd. I just had to have my user page and talk page protected for the same reason, a bunch of IPs were vandalizing them in the exact same way (replacing my user page with a link to my block log, and taking stuff from talk page archives and adding them back to the talk page). TJ Spyke 02:40, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I really don't care about the anon IP attacks, btw. It is who is behind the use of my old username to attack my own contribs that I would like to see solved. It is possible that they are not the same person as the nasty vandal. Alternately, this may provide a clue to who that prolific vandal really is. AnteaterZot (talk) 02:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

This is probably a great place to apologize for my really sloppy reverts during that run - I started reverting the wrong IP, which only added to the confusion. Kuru 02:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

SolidPlaid (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been renamed, so AnteaterZot, please recreate your old username ASAP to stop this happening again. Ryan Postlethwaite 02:54, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Done. AnteaterZot (talk) 03:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

This is the latest rage; the bud guys read this page for ideas. This problem needs to be prevented as a standard part of username changes. --Jack Merridew 10:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Tkguy at Asian fetish

I discovered this apparently disruptive SPA user through an RfC. User continually accuses other parties of bad faith, misrepresenting sources, and racism. (See also asking LaraLove to intervene in against the "racist" re-definition of Asian fetish) User appears to be promoting an original theory about the causal link between the Asian fetish and suicide, and insists upon including questionable sources—edit warring to user's preferred version. (See prior 3RR block) I think Tkguy should step away from this topic. Cool Hand Luke 02:11, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• This user has engaged in a variety of problematic behavior. I don't think he is interested in building a NPOV encyclopedia; rather, he wants to use Misplaced Pages as his personal soapbox. He has engaged in few or no edits outside of the topic of Asian sexuality.

• First edit.
• First signs of blatant POV-pushing
• Removes two reliably sourced statements, and accuses other participants of bad faith
• Another WP:IDONTLIKEIT removal of sourced material.
• More blatant POV-pushing
• More accusations of bad faith and POV-pushing
• More accusations of bad faith in edit summary
• Claims he shouldn't have to follow sourcing policy
• Threatens edit war
• More accusations of bad faith
• Yet another insulting edit summary
• More unsourced POV
• Attempts to shift burden of proof to anyone opposing his edits
• Commits 3RR and responds rudely to a warning
• Blocked on Nov. 29 for WP:3RR violation
• Unblocked after he promises not to do it again
• Accuses other participants of sockpuppetry, with no evidence
• Requests full page protection on his version
• Accuses another editor of "vandalism" for opposing his edits
• Invalid AIV report
• Inserts conjecture into article
• Adds material sourced to a student newspaper

• I grow tired of summarizing. Suffice to say he is continuing the same nonsense. He's accused me of "vandalism" at AIV, which was immediately removed, and continues to assume bad faith of other users and attempting to WP:OWN the article. He also persists in adding blog posts and other nonsense after being advised that they are not reliable sources. *** Crotalus *** 02:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

At my talk page (User talk:Saranghae honey#Asian fetish) he accused me several times of having an agenda to mitigate the article when I was merely copy editing the article. When I removed external links because there was an excessive number, he said it will be my "last and final warning" for my "vandalism." This is not the first time he has engaged in a disruptive edit war as you can see from Crotalus's comment. He has also engaged in an edit war with User:Christopher Mann McKay and User:Kaitenbushi. Before I requested RfC for the article he frequently singled me out in his edit summaries and accused me of "gross manipulation." миражinred 03:27, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

From RfC at Asian fetish He has accused me of being a vandal and someone with an agenda to mitigate the article in question ( , his edit summaries used in the article, and the section below) against WP:CIVIL and Misplaced Pages:Assume good faith. миражinred 03:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I was 3rr blocked but I was introduced to the 3rr rule by Chris Mann Mckay. I explain to the admin that Chris Mann Mckay and Kaitenbushi were working together to trick me into violating the 3rr rule. If you look on my talk page this is apparent. I actually had my 3rr block removed. Kaitenbushi was 3rr blocked. Chris Mann Mckay only reverted the page 2 times so was not blocked. But apparently the guy is a vandal on many other pages and was 3rr blocked not just for 24 hours but for 48 hours. If you look at his talk page you will notice that people were very much aware that he had barely avoided the 3rr block on the Asian fetish page. so I am pretty confident his actions on the Asian fetish page caused him to get a longer block sentence. But still most of the references above were from when I started out and when I was dealing with these two. I encourage you to read my talk page on a summary of the kind of edits that Chris Mann Mckay did. My summarization convinced many to 3rr block him. Here's the link to the 3rr report board . Much of the above is my interaction with Kaitenbushi and Chris Mann Mckay.

Tkguy side of the story

First off this page has a history of being vandalized. It has been requested for deletion twice and possibly more times, notably one time by Saranghae honey. Cool Hand came to this page because Saranghae honey wanted rfc on the definition to be used on the page. This rfc was requested by Saranghae honey at, I believe, the advice of Lara❤Love. I had a problem with the definition that Saranghae honey put in as it prominently used a quote from a the colorq.org site that was determined to be an invalid source. Even today this definition is still up with the reference to the invalid source placed prominent as the first entry in the page. During this arbitration rather than commenting on the definition I provided Cool Hand Luke and Lara❤Love started writing about how the page should have a WP:LEAD rather than a definition. I've brought up the fact that similar pages such as Sexism and Racism started out with a definition and not a WP:LEAD. Anyway, Cool Hand, also without discussing, removed a section on the Asian fetish page. Soon after Crotalus horridus came on and started to delete much of the content from the page. So I am in an edit war with Crotalus horridus, Saranghae honey, and Cool Hand Luke. I believe these people are determined to make Asian fetish out to be something benign. This is apparent in the way they delete items from the page and misrepresent the source data. If you read the talk page I have numerous examples of situation where people have been manipulating the source of the data. One big area this is done is with regards to Phoebe Eng's work. For a long time many people have used a small counterpoint she made in her book "Warrior Lesson" and made the claim that Phoebe thinks asian fetish empowers asian females. I read the portion of the book and discovered that this notion was actually derived from a two sentence entry in a chapter that was overwhelming negative on the topic of Asian fetish.

Here's what people put on the page

I realized that Phoebe Eng's work was being misrepresented and manipulated. I proceeded to add the actual quotes from the book that convey the notion that she was trying to convey and presented like so:

In order to provide a counterpoint to the overwhelming negative impact that Asian fetish has on the lives of Asian American females, Phoebe Eng wrote the following,

Much of the chapter that people are referencing have a very negative bent towards asian fetish. Here are some quotes that accurately convey the much of the content of the chapter:

Crotalus horridus proceeded to chop down my entry to the following:

Phoebe Eng wrote:

I believe this last quote should be removed from the Asian fetish page as it has long been used by many as a reputable source to claim that asian fetish helps asian females. I tried to remove it but the people I am edit warring with keep bringing it back.

As for Cool Hand, I been trying to get him to put an article by Raymond Fisman under the heading "Controversy" and not "Studies related to Asian fetish" as it gives the impression the article is an actual scientific study. This article was panned by many for claiming that a study proves that Asian fetish does not exist. He even acknowledged that this article is not a study with the comment to the changes he made with "The analysis is not a study, but one of the principle economists behind it has a pretty good handle on interpreting it." 20:37, 30 December 2007 yet he keeps putting it under the heading "Studies related to Asian fetish"!

here is my version of the entry 19:45, 30 December 2007 :

Raymond Fisman authored a controversial article on Salon that claimed that the existence of Asian fetish is a myth. Raymond used the results of a study, "Racial Preferences in Dating," that he helped to conduct to come to this conclusion. A blogger at Hyphen found the study to be flawed. Journalist Moe Tkacik also expressed skepticism to the findings of the study.

here is the current version that once again has been chopped up and placed under the heading "Studies related to Asian fetish". This is obviously making an opinionated article out to be the study that was conducted. This is far from the truth and once again a gross manipulation of the source data:

Raymond Fisman authored an article published in Salon which claimed that the existence of Asian fetish is a myth. Raymond based his conclusions on the results of a study, "Racial Preferences in Dating," that he helped to conduct. The study, based upon speed dating experiments among Columbia University graduate students, found no general statistically-significant racial preference among males.

And this is the nature of the edit war we are having on the Asian fetish page. Nearly all the quotes and summarizations on the page I've found to be a gross misrepresentation and manipulation of the source data. Once again please look at the talk page for the many examples of such manipulations. I assure you that if you look at the edits I've done I have accurately let the sources "speak for themselves" and have been trying to bring back contributions on the page that have long been deleted by vandals. I assure you I am editing in "good faith". Because I've been trying to fix the gross manipulation of source data people are accusing me of being biased. I am not allowing people to manipulate other people's work to convey a meaning it never intended it to mean. Obviously such actions have been pissing people off.

Tkguy (talk) 03:32, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• Tkguy, you have been told numerous times by me and other users that neither blogs nor your own personal opinions are reliable sources. You continue to place unsourced and poorly sourced material into the article. As long as you do this, it will continue to be removed. Salon is a reliable source; the two blogs you cited to impeach it are not. If the Salon article was indeed "heavily panned," as you claim, then please cite reliable sources justifying this statement. You simply do not seem to have (or be interested in obtaining) a clear understanding of how Misplaced Pages works. *** Crotalus *** 03:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

First off the problem is that this opinionated article is being presented as a fact by being placed under the heading, "Studies related to Asian fetish". Only objective analysis of studies that present the findings of the study should deserve to be placed there. This is no such thing. The Fisman guy is deriving that the study proves that Asian fetish is a myth and caused a huge amount of controversy by doing so. And that's why it probably more fitting to put it under "Controversy" as it's a liberal interpretation of a study that caused a lot of controversy. As for blogs not being a valid source. It might be so for the Jezebel thing. But the hyphen one is probably valid as it's made by the managing editor Neelanjana Banerjee on blog that is part of Hyphen magazine. But still these blog references are not being used as the main source but to illustrate that the article was panned by the public. But that's beside the main point, that a biased opinion of one man is being presented as a scientific study. Once again this is the nature of the edit wars on the Asian fetish. Tkguy (talk) 04:36, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Fisman conducted a study. Like all researchers, he drew a conclusion from the study. You don't like the findings of the study. You want to relegate it to the "Controversy" section. That's all there is to it. миражinred 04:40, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The page has been protected. Please forward all future debate to the article's talk page. --slakr 05:58, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't see why one problem user should be able to get a page locked. Everyone except Tkguy had no trouble working together. *** Crotalus *** 06:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Crotalus. All other editors drained their time on reverting Tkguy's edits and struggling to improve the article. I (and I think other editors) was expecting some sort of solution that would prevent Tkguy from editing this article. On a more positive note, I guess we can spend the New Year's in peace. миражinred 06:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I considered simply taking this to RFPP, but the problem is only with one editor. The other editors use the talk page and even have constructive disagreements. The edit war is caused by this user who stubbornly insists on their version against all counterarguments. This same user caused the previous edit war (and previous page protection) with completely different parties. The problem with with Tkguy editing this article. Cool Hand Luke 08:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

A Favour Please

We have a new User:I LOVE THE JOHN, PAUL, GEORGE, & RINGO. He started out by making changes to Beatles'-related articles like this , which I reverted leaving pointers in the edit summary. Having put advice on policy on this talk page, he then blanked it & redirected to The Beatles and carried on his unencyclopedic additions. I left him with a VW3, since I think he should have had the message by then, and a Welcome pointing him the direction of policy. He then did this : . I am reluctant to engage if this is his tone and ask if someone will leave a note about WP:CIVIL and the use of Talk pages for him. Thanks. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 03:19, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Wow, I've honestly never seen such a reaction like that. I think his edits to the mainspace are generally good-faith, just misguided.J-ſtan_{User page} 03:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, i left a level one warning about civility towards other users, its just the generic attack1 warn, so if someone else wants to leave him a message feel free. Tiptoety 03:37, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I am going to keep an eye on his contributions as he is showing signs of a vandal account. If anyone is doing the same remember to WP:AGF. Tiptoety 03:40, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

You might want to monitor User:ILOVETHEOC (contribs)as well. Similar usernames, similar editing style.Kww (talk) 19:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Certainly seems to have the same issues re WP:OWN, not to mention edit summaries (is this a record for the number of cumulative capitalised "fucks" in a summary?). Added to the list. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 01:43, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Block by admin User:Sandstein

This involves a 3RR report I filed here. A relatively new user is trying to exclude a certain paragraph largely because he doesn't like a word in it. I told him on the talk page and in edit summaries that this content was sourced and that was not a reason to exclude it. He ignored my warning against edit-warring and reverted four times. I reverted three time. In response to my post about the 3RR violation, Sandstein blocked me for "edit-warring." Would other admins please comment on this action, and give their policy for blocking. "Edit-warring" is vague and subjective. It is unfair that admins block other users based on subjective judgments when other users would not be blocked for the exact same behavior in other situations by other admins. Arrow740 (talk) 03:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Each decision is made on a case by case basis, apparently. Is there any webpage, where I can get more information about such blocks?Bless sins (talk) 03:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Here the policies applying would be WP:EW and WP:3RR. J-ſtan_{User page} 03:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I didn't violate 3RR, that's the point. Arrow740 (talk) 06:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Sandstein blocked Imad marie (talk · contribs) as well, and that is what I would have done as well. It takes two to edit war. The fact that Imad was the first to revert should not disadvantage him, and allow you to call him out for doing the same thing you were doing (edit warring) simply because he hits four first; as WP:3RR says, "the rule does not convey an entitlement to revert three times each day, nor does it endorse reverting as an editing technique". It was just you two reverting, with no edits in between. If you had not continued to revert, the edit war would have stopped. If Imad had not continued to revert, the edit war would have stopped. So, you should both be blocked for edit warring; you both committed the same infraction, numbers notwithstanding. -- tariqabjotu 04:17, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

This is wrong. I didn't violate 3RR, he did. Maybe you'll admit that. I already know your opinion; I should be blocked whenever I reach 3 reverts, even when combating sockpuppetry. By the (not quite coherent) philosophy you're espousing here, anyone who uses even two reverts could be blocked for edit-warring. You're giving yourself too much power. Arrow740 (talk) 06:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh common Arrow740, why do you think these fellows wanted to be an `admin` in the first place? Obviously to exercise power, of course they will give themselves `too much power`..And dont use too much confusing logical reasonings when dealing with Tariqabjotu or Sandstein, they wont be able to follow you, and you might end up being blocked again... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.243.217.15 (talk) 12:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

My two cents Sandstein's wrong. I took a look at the 3rr report and you've reverted

vandalism 3 times. According to 3RR , removing vandalism is an exception to 3RR. The 3rr shows, just as you said that IMADMARIE was removing sourced content and you were restoring it. The block needs to be removed - 3RR on ARROW740 never happened, per policy. Just my .2 Cents The Alien from another world formerly known as Kosh Vorlon, previously of Vorlon Homeworld, some where in the Taurus constellation —Preceding comment was added at 19:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Sugar babe96

This user's only edit was a long post to their talk page, which began with the stated intent of using Misplaced Pages as a blog. I removed the post and replaced it with a welcome message and a referral to Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not. However, when I read the post, I began to worry. This may be nothing but someone with a pathological sense of humor, but could someone please look at it? Michaelbusch (talk) 03:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

either a blog or an attempt to post original fiction. You did right to remove it. DGG (talk) 04:32, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I was not considering the removal incorrect. I was considering the possibility that the content was factual to the extent that the editor believed it, and not someone posting bad fiction. Michaelbusch (talk) 05:28, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Addendum: user has posted again, this time in a large set to the userpage. Also removed. Michaelbusch (talk) 05:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I've deleted the User and User talk pages to remove the history and selectively restored the welcome and warnings. Please watch this. If the posts are done again, I recommend an indef block. The user is creating a hazard for themself. Additionally, I have concerns that this user is not what they represent and may have very bad intentions. Contact me offline if you want to question my actions. Jehochman 16:10, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Page blanking (noticeboards)

Could someone semi-prot this noticeboard and the fringe theory noticeboard, so people don't have to keep reverting IPs all night? Avruchtalk 03:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Argh - little edit to make the header show in peoples watchlists. Avruchtalk 03:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

On the other hand, its kind of funny to watch. The IPer has blanked it at least ten times, wonder when she/he/it will get bored. Avruchtalk 03:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The way I see it, the vandal has to keep typing captchas, three admins who are watching the pages he's vandalizing just click a button. It's amusing to think of all of the different silly words the vandal has had to type over the course of an hour or so :P --slakr 03:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it was just one person. While certainly there was an IP hopper attacking the page, the last IP was on a different continent from the rest. Someguy1221 (talk) 04:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Ahaha, didn't even think of that. Avruchtalk 04:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

It's the same person. They're likely drones. --slakr 04:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Only concern I guess is if someone is trying to report something, they're going to get brutally conflicted. Avruchtalk 04:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

My concern would be that if a valid IP has a concern and wants edit this page to add it, semi-protecting would block them out. When its semi-protected there should be a header on top pointing them somewhere that is being watched. MBisanz 08:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Userpage masquerading as an article

This is not a HUGE issue, but I am seeking the advice of an experienced admin on this one. Isn't this kind of thing: see User:FFaF, generally frowned upon? I am not an administrator myself, but I tripped over this, and thought I should bring it here for further attention. This is the text of a deleted article (see Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Klan Andlux. I know under certain conditions, deleted pages are allowed to be "userified" as a subpage of the main page, but I am not sure this usage qualifies. I am concerned that this may be confused with a "real" article. Any ideas on what should be done? --Jayron32|talk|contribs 03:40, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

It's spam: Misplaced Pages:CSD#G11 applies (as it does to ALL pages, regardless of prefix), and it's been so tagged. Time to go looking for more. --Calton | Talk 04:31, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

It was more specifically a recreation of an AfDed article (Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Klan Andlux). --slakr 04:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to Calton and Slakr for resolving that. It looks like the situation has been dealt with!--Jayron32|talk|contribs 17:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Sock puppet of Burntsauce

Je suis un Hippo (talk · contribs) is claiming to be a sock of Burntsauce (talk · contribs). Corvus cornix_talk 03:46, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Blockinated. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 03:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't seem like a sock puppet, more likely just some random troll stirring up trouble. Note he also claimed to be the banned Brian G Crawford. 75.175.21.206 (talk) 06:13, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Interesting that the single post IP evaluates what is or isn't a sockpuppet. Durova 11:23, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Rather strange

When this sockpuppet identified himself on Burntsauce's talk page, he announced his name as Brian G. Crawford. After a quick search, it turns out there was a User:Brian G. Crawford (who is banned) and after a search into his contributions of both editors, it seems the sockpuppet had a problem with Kelly Martin, SlimVirgin and JzG and it was no surprise when I looked at Brian G. Crawford's contributions had a dispute with these editors.

This is all very confusing considering Burntsauce was confirmed to have been meatpuppeting for User:JB196, a totally unrelated banned editor. Considering Brian G. Crawford = Burntsauce per that "confession" of sorts, I will tag Burntsauce as a sockpuppet of Brian G. Crawford, but it seems really, really strange that one banned editor, Brian G. Crawford, would create an account to become a meatpuppet for another banned editor, JB196. — Save_Us_229 17:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I've removed that tag, a claim made by an IP editor for whom we have no evidence of any connection to either is not a valid basis on which to make such a claim. —Random832 18:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. Do we have any evidence linking this to Burntsauce? I've been in contact with him via e-mail, and Brian G. Crawford is not Burntsauce's real-life name. Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) 19:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

It seems like you have been in contact with him enough to know that. In any case, User:Je suis un Hippo is tagged as a Burntsauce sockpuppet, so besides the 'confession' (which I guess is deemed invalid), why is User:Je suis un Hippo still tagged as a Burntsauce sockpuppet? Shouldn't it be moved to a Brian G. Crawford sockpuppet? — Save_Us_229 19:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Fringe theories/Noticeboard

Bunch of IPs keep blanking this page... odd. Very bad. Please protect it! futurebird (talk) 04:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

See above. Avruchtalk 04:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

oh. and seems like it stopped anyway. Sorry! futurebird (talk) 04:09, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Jinxmchue IP rangeblock

67.135.49.177 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) has been blocked for a month for abusing sockpuppet accounts (being a sockpuppet of Jinxmchue (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)), despite his strenuous denial that he's been editing legitimately and not being a sockpuppet. I think Special:Contributions/67.135.49.177 will be instructive in determining why he's been disruptive.

I recently asked him a legitimate question about whether he plans to constructively edit any pages once the block expires. In response, he undid my edit with the edit summary "Undid revision 180656254 by Elkman (talk) - rv disruptive trolling (which won't result in the offender being blocked, of course)". That pretty much tells me that he doesn't plan to do any constructive editing.

I have blocked his entire range of IP addresses (67.135.48.0/23) for three months and protected the two user talk pages that he's been using. I'm reasonably convinced that he has no plans to edit Misplaced Pages except to make complaints about Misplaced Pages administration. Frankly, I'm tired of his continued abuse of his user talk page(s) to go on about his grievances. Since I've placed a rangeblock that may affect users of a small ISP based in Saint Cloud, Minnesota, I'm posting here to get feedback. --Elkman 04:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Ouch. That seems to be casting a rather wide net, for three months. Is he that disruptive? — Coren  05:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• Ugh - definitely using a sledgehammer to swat a fly. Blocking an entire ISP seems too extreme. Videmus Omnia 05:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

A /23 block is only 512 IPs. These are all the anonymous edits from that range up to August 4th, 2007. Mr.Z-man 05:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I hate reading about these situations. being as careful and narrow as possible almost always lets them back in, then they get ip after ip blocked piece-meal, leading to frustration and irritation; blocking massive ranges which assure the editor can't get back in easily run the risk of blocking other contributors. I'd like to go with 'let them register', but that often falls on deaf ears, and the 'anyone can edit' clause. well, we're not precluding registered users, just IP vandals. I suppose the 'right' thing, by current WP standards is to unblock the range, but I keep thinking about all these declarations here on AN/I to crack down on vandals, and how wimpy they wind up being. Given that almost all were by the vandal in question, I say let them stand. The other IP in that range can register. ThuranX (talk) 05:19, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

In case anyone cares, the main account itself isn't blocked. So an anon only block on his IP range is going to let him edit from his account. Of course, this may be a good thing - it will force him to use an account rather than obfuscate behind multiple IP addresses. --B (talk) 05:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

"Forcing" someone to use a registered account is the wrong answer - it's a violation of the privacy policy, which states that editors may edit logged in or not. Can someone explain the point of blocking an ISP to prevent anon editing by a person whose main account isn't blocked? Videmus Omnia 06:13, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Arbcom has imposed a sanction that editors are limited to one account before, so I don't see why that would be totally out of the realm of possibilities. I was more or less tongue in cheek about that part, though, obviously using an ISP block for an editor who isn't even blocked isn't quite right. --B (talk) 06:33, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm reconsidering the rangeblock based on the opinions above, but I'm going to wait until the morning (CST) to make the decision. I still don't think he has anything positive to contribute here, and I don't like the idea of users using talk pages to bash Misplaced Pages and its editors, but maybe the rangeblock is overkill. Other opinions are welcome. --Elkman 06:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The main account isn't even blocked. So right now, it's in a logically inconsistent state. It doesn't make sense to block the range if the editor can just edit using his account. So something needs to change - block the main account or unblock the range (or both).--B (talk) 06:36, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed - also, it's not up to Elkman or any other single admin to tell an editor where they may or may not edit. The more I look into this, the uglier it looks. Guy should never have blocked an IP for sockpuppetry to begin with (editing anonymously is specifically allowed by policy, and cannot be "sockpuppetry"), and this answer to an unblock request only seems liable to inflame the situation rather than improve it. I still don't understand why this person was blocked, anyway - it looks to me like it was possibly over a content dispute, which should have gone to RfC or some other form of dispute resolution. Videmus Omnia 06:47, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Am I missing something? Has the IP/Jinxmchue edited outside of his usertalk space since the block? If all he's doing is being obnoxious on his IP usertalk page, and he's not actually disrupting articles or editing other spaces, then a range block definitely seems like overkill. Right now, he's just ranting on his IP usertalk page. I'd suggest semi/full-protecting the talk page with a clear explanation that he's abusing it. If he starts using his dynamic IP to evade the block and edit article-space, then a range-block might be appropriate. Just my 2 cents. Also, Jinxmchue edits to provoke a reaction and constantly seems to be in a state of barely contained rage. I still have a couple of... er... colorful emails he sent me after I blocked him for 3RR long ago. He's best ignored or flyswatted rather than nuked. MastCell 06:50, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Videmus, I think (though am not entirely certain) that JzG blocked the IP because Jinxmchue was using it to evade a block on his main account. That was a correct block. As for range blocking to stop an unblocked editor from editing? That's a different story. --B (talk) 07:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

So far as I can tell, there was no block evasion - the IP was blocked for 31 hours on 30 Nov by Adam Cuerden. On 2 Dec, Guettarda blocked the main account for "block evasion" on the IP even though that block had already expired. On 3 Dec Guy blocked the IP for sockpuppetry. Unless I'm missing something, the only good block is Adam's. And the more I look at that IP's talkpage the more it looks like a volatile person was cyber-bullied and provoked into getting mad on their talkpage, which was then used as an excuse for talkpage protection and "harrassment" and "trolling" accusations. That is a thoroughly despicable tactic. Videmus Omnia 07:31, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The IP was being used to evade the block put in place by Adam, so blocking the IP was the right decision. Blocking the IP for a month instead of merely blocking it for the time of the original block was a bad decision. --B (talk) 08:17, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Adam blocked the IP, not the account. Videmus Omnia 08:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, 15:17, 30 November 2007 Adam blocks the IP for 31 hours. Jinxmchue edits with his account starting at 20:24, 30 November 2007 and continuing until blocked by Guettarda at 00:23, 2 December 2007 for block evasion. The IP does not edit until after that block expires, so yes, you are correct and I was wrong. --B (talk) 08:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Adam blocked Jinx for a 3RRvio. After he was blocked, he switched to his logged-in account, and was editing outside of his userspace before the block expired, and was repeating the same edits for which he was blocked. So I re-set Adam's block, and posted notice of the block here. 35.9.6.175 (talk) 15:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Who are you? --B (talk) 15:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Oops, sorry. Guettarda here. 35.9.6.175 (talk) 15:36, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, yes, I agree your block was 100% correct. JzG's block is the one about which I said I was mistaken. --B (talk) 15:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Guettarda, why are there edits from your IP to Natalie Erin's talkpage that say "natalie erin is a big dyke" or "natalie erin is bitch ass dyke"? Videmus Omnia 15:50, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I did an IP lookup - it's the IP for Michigan State University, so there's going to be quite a lot of users on that IP. Adam Cuerden 15:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Adam's right ... it appears to be the computer lab at MSU. Many people could be using that/those computers. Antandrus (talk) 15:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the rangeblock and the two protections I just placed. As for the existing block of 67.135.49.177 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log), that's a block that JzG (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) placed, and I'm not going to undo that -- that's wheel warring.

Apparently, I'm the one who screwed up here. Apparently, I can't do things correctly around here. --Elkman 07:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Removing a one-month block 29 days into it would not be wheel warring. --B (talk) 07:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I placed an unblock request on the IP talk page, and request a neutral review. This looks to me a bad block by Guy. Videmus Omnia 07:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

It was placed because of disruptive edits using that IP (which had no evidence of other uses, so no obvious danger of collateral damage) combined with querulous complaints on the admin noticeboard, the while absolutely refusing to admit to any fault, notably with these: . It seemed pretty unambiguous to me, he admitted it was Jinxmchue. Jinxmchue and his IPs do little other than edit war and push their POV. We should waste less time with such foolishness and concern ourselves instead with helping those editors who are capable of presenting minority POVs without the attendant problems that editors like this bring. It's pretty clear that this editor has used and will continue to use IPs and his account in combination to evade scrutiny and blocking, and there seems to me to be adequate support for editors with a problematic history being required to keep to one account. No provacy violation exists, Jinxmchue freely admits these are his IPs on his user page. Jinxmchue needs, in my opinion and I'm guessing that of Felonious and others, to "shape up or ship out". Guy (Help!) 10:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

But the point is, it's logically inconsistent to block his IP when his account is not blocked. --B (talk) 14:17, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

That's more of an argument to block the main account too than anything else. JoshuaZ (talk) 15:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not arguing for or against anything other than logical consistency. --B (talk) 15:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Guy - if the reason was blocking was edit-warring or POV-pushing, why does the block log say that it is for sockpuppetry? And why a month? Videmus Omnia 15:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

As to whether 1 month is an appropriate block length for edit-warring/POV-pushing, it may be, given that this user (as both User:Jinxmchue and various IP's) has run up a number of prior 3RR blocks in a short time and has continued to edit-war. As to why the block log gives sockpuppetry as a reason, I don't know, though my suspicion is that there were multiple issues which Guy deemed block-worthy (recidivist edit-warring, POV-pushing, block evasion) and he grabbed one from the drop-down menu. As to whether the IP should be unblocked, or Jinxmchue blocked, or some other combination of actions, I have no opinion beyond the one expressed above - that this is an irascible editor spoiling for a fight, and others have obliged him. MastCell 19:32, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think I can speak to the quality of Jinxmchue's edits, but the actions on the other side seem to be an unworthy attempt to short-circuit the dispute resolution process by unwarranted use of admin buttons. I'm particularly concerned by FeloniousMonk's actions - he apparently was involved in the dispute, then placed an {{IPsock}} template on the IP userpage against the user's will, then protected the page while involved in the dispute. I don't have any involvement in the Intelligent design/Dominionism area (except for a long-ago dispute regarding non-free images); it seems that users involved in this area are willing to engage in tag-teaming and provocation to enforce their point of view on the articles involved. I'm not saying the blocked user was correct, I'm saying that there seems to be some questionable use of admin buttons by users involved in the dispute. Videmus Omnia 19:42, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

And I think that;s an assumption of bad faith, and extending greater good faith to an edit warrior than to several long-standing contributors. I picked one moth because that's what I usually use in cases of block evasion using what appear to be stable IPs - I use a week or less if the IPs seem to be reallocated frequently. Feel free to help the user fix his behaviour problems, though. I don't think that would be at all controversial. Guy (Help!) 20:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Guy, this doesn't explain why you blocked for sockpuppetry when there was no sockpuppetry. I can't even see that there was any block evasion. Can you please explain (citing policy as necessary) the reasons for your block? Videmus Omnia 23:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Violating his block by editing logged out

1. 1st block of Jinxmchue for 31 hours, 1 December 2007
2. Editing from the IP during the block on 3 December 2007
3. 2nd block for evading the first, 3 December 2007

Admiting that he violated the block: "Nope. Block period has passed. (I even logged out to see if I got the block message, which I didn't and knew I wouldn't.) Please go harass someone else or find yourself in danger of losing adminship."

Admiting the IPs are his:

Your frantic arm waving and claims about Jinxmchue being the aggreived party here are as baseless as they are disruptive, as is your grudge filing against me at Misplaced Pages:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_December_31#Template:IPsock and attempt to ban another who's opposed Jinx's disruption at Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Jim62sch. Your time and effort would be better spent finding constuctive ways to contribute to the project rather than stirring up drama and settling old scores... it's becoming disruptive and appears to be spreading. FeloniousMonk (talk) 02:27, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Your "evidence" shows that the user didn't edit outside of user talkspace during his block. Would you also care to explain your protection of the user's IP userpage while you were in an editing dispute with the user? Your time and effort would be better spent engaging in constructive ways to avoid conflict, rather than misusing your admin buttons. Videmus Omnia 02:38, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Um, are you kidding? His userspace is User:Jinxmchue. During the block he edited his IP talk page, WP:AN/I, 6 times total and my talk page, twice. All while he was blocked.

When you are so wrong on the basic facts Videmus, how do you expect us to take your other claims at face value? In addition to getting simple but crucial facts flat wrong I don't think you understand how Misplaced Pages:Blocking_policy#Enforcing_bans, Misplaced Pages:Blocking_policy#Evasion_of_blocks, Misplaced Pages:SOCK#Blocking and Misplaced Pages:SOCK#Tagging apply here well enough to be making the accusations and slinging the mud you have been. FeloniousMonk (talk) 03:06, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

<This is the sort of attack you can expect if you run afoul of the WP:Intelligent Design folks. Nothing above explains the bullying, intentional provocation, or out-of-process page protection FM has engaged in, but we get plenty of ad hominen. Thanks. Videmus Omnia 03:21, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Indef Blocked user might be back

bear with me, this is the first real report of this kind I've done

User:Booze broads and bullets was indefinitely blocked in Feb 2007 for persistent vandalism and uploading copyrighted materials. Shortly thereafter a new username popped up, User:Broads, which was determined to be a sock and subsequently indefinitely blocked.

I am making the assertion that User:THX2046 might be another sock of Booze broads and bullets.

The original incident reports on Booze and Broads were written in Feb 2007 and are found at:

• Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive193#User:Booze broads and bullets
• Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive193#Booze broads and bullets
• Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive193#User:Booze broads and bullets, again
• Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive197#User:Booze broads and bullets persistent copyright offender
• Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive198#Banned user back with new account

At a couple of points this user has been referred to as 'banned', but it doesn't look like they have been formally banned, only indef blocked (i.e. they don't appear at Misplaced Pages:List of banned users.

1. On User:THX2046, they state "I AM A PEXER! BUT YOU HAVE TO GUESS WHO I AM! I AM ALSO THE LATE: B"
   • I am taking "THE LATE: B" to mean "Booze broads and bullets". No idea what "A PEXER" means.
2. User talk:THX2046 is littered with non-free image warnings
   • BBB was known for uploading non-free images, one of their hallmarks.
3. The very first edit for User:THX2046 was to re-create Bakekang.
   • This was also among the first actions of User:Broads (see deleted contributions), who only had 5 recorded edits in all.
   • Bakekang was also a target for BBB in the last days leading up to their indef block.
   • The timing is right as well ... BBB was indef blocked on 10 Feb ... Broads was created and indef blocked on 12 Feb ... THX2046 was created 19 Feb and began editing where the other two left off. Not to mention that, in April 2007, THX2046 replaced User talk:THX2046 with "I AM THE GUARDIAN ANGEL OF BAKEKANG" (version)
4. User:THX2046 has particular ... almost exclusive I think ... interest in Philippine television and film, including an emphasis on ABS-CBN programs.
   • This focus was also a hallmark of BBB's activities

That is as far as I've gotten. Note that THX2046 has been active since Feb 2007 and contributed >1500 edits according to the Contributions page. I suppose the question is whether to do nothing or do something. I am not sure where consensus with dealing with socks is at presently as I've not paid much attention to that aspect of Admin activities (User activity monitoring).

Thoughts? --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 05:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

A "Pexer" is a poster at the PinoyExchange forums. I haven't hanged around the TV/Film fora since it's very messy and the moderation is awful. --Howard the Duck 06:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I concur with the assertion that THX2046 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a block-evading sockpuppet of Booze broads and bullets (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Broads (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), based on editing patterns. Another similarity is that neither has made a contribution outside mainspace. I have blocked THX2046 indefinitely. I will also add Booze broads and bullets to the list of banned users (since no-one seems willing to unblock him) if there is no opposition to this here. Sandstein (talk) 07:46, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Ireland101 and Tsourkpk

User:Ireland101 is impersonating an administrator by threatening me with a block here ] as well as here ]. He has joined some sort of counter-vandalism unit and is pretending to have the ability to block me. This constitutes bullying and harassment and I would like file a complaint against his behavior. He is very aggressive, seldom consulting the discussion edit before making controversial edits, and accuses everyone who undoes his edits of vandalism and sockpuppetry, as his contribs log attests. He has repeatedly slandered me by baselessly accusing me of vandalism and sockpuppetry, and has even tried to "eliminate" editors who disagree with his views by trying to frame them for tag-teaming, as can be seen here ]. His attempts to intimidate and silence thos who oppose his views are extremely dangerous to Misplaced Pages, and I would like to request that he be disciplined.--Tsourkpk (talk) 06:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of any of the other particulars of this situation, those are standard messages and it's widely accepted that non-administrators are allowed to use them. —Random832 06:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I am not surprised this Tsourkpk is trying to make these allegations about me, as he has a history of simular attacks. They are all false. I have never claimed to be an administrator. I am a member of the Counter-Vandalism Unit and WikiProject on user warnings all I did was use the appropriate templates on this users talk page after vandalism. I never claimed to be an administrator and take offense to this personal attack. As this is not Tsourkpk first time and has been warned I suggest action be taken. Ireland101 (talk) 06:46, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

What I did is not vandalism. He accuses EVERYONE who disagrees with his views of vandalism. Take a look at his contribs log, just about every edit summary contains the word "vandal". He is using the templates to try and initimidate me. This is classic bullying and needs to stop. --Tsourkpk (talk) 06:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Besides that fact that most of my contribs no not contain the word "vandalism", I do allocate time to correct vandalism in the encyclopedia. I am in no way trying to intimidate anyone, I am just going by the WikiProject on user warnings. You shouldn't fear anything if what you have done is right. Recent types of vandalism by this user have been removing sourced text from articles and adding incorrect unsourced un-encyclopedic text to articles. Ireland101 (talk) 06:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

None of your "sources" even come close to meeting WP:RS and are only intended to push a particular POV. This is why all your edits have been undone by myself and other users (whom you have also tried to silence). --Tsourkpk (talk) 07:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The source in question is the National Center for Biotechnology Information. This is defiantly a reliable source. Please stop with the false accusations. Ireland101 (talk) 07:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

So that I do not need to start a new thread this is were I am reporting this user.

Tsourkpk (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - Repeated vandalism in many articles. Has been warned numerous times however has chosen to delete many warnings on talk page. Has been warned to Level 4. Examples of vandalism:

• removing sourced academic study calling it vandalism repeatedly, .
• added incorrect text that is unsourced to article repeatedly ,
• made changes against talk page decision

There are many other examples. What is striking is that all of these changes were made in about one hour. Action needs to be taken. Ireland101 (talk) 07:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Sheer nonsense. None of the "sources" even come close to meeting WP:RS. Regarding the Greeks article, the source is original resrach and is unsuitable for Misplaced Pages. As for Bryges, all I did was undo weasel wording. This is bullying and an attempt at intimidation. If any action needs to be taken, it is against Ireland101. --Tsourkpk (talk) 07:22, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

You guys need to try WP:Dispute resolution. I strongly suggest that you consider mediation as there isn't very much that ANI can do - in neither case is there blatant vandalism or bad faith edits. --B (talk) 07:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The source about the Greeks appears to be reliable. It is published by the National Center for Biotechnology Information which is part of the United States National Institutes of Health, a scientific agency. I don't know about the other two though. --Hdt83 07:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Hdt83 thank you for posting your finding, Tsourkpk seems focused to making people believe it is not a reliable source. I do not know of the other sources Tsourkpk is talking about, as this is the only one I have added that I can remember. Ireland101 (talk) 07:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Tsourkpk, I think you really need to rethink your entire editing strategy hear. I see in your contributions history plenty of revert warring and use of somewhat hostile edit summaries. Especially in this most recent edit war, I see very little evidence you actually tried to discuss the issue. What you have to realize is that edit warring without discussing the content dispute at hand is plainly an unacceptable practice. Even after reverting vandalism, you're accountable for that revert, and expected to provide a reason if asked (reason here is more than just listing policy shortcuts, you should be able to explain how they're being violated). As for the issue at hand, except perhaps for blatant attack sites or personally published work, determining whether a source is unreliable is something that is going to require discussion. Not to satisfy yourself, of course (I'm sure you've already made up your mind), but to satisfy everyone else and arrive at consensus; for if you don't, then any admin is just going to see this as an edit war and block you if it continues. And when you can't reach an agreement (which I don't see evidence of your even trying) you ask other editors for their opinions through requests for comment or the less formal requests for third opinions. And last but not least, always keep in mind that neutral point of view is about confining included points of view to those that are noteworthy and reliably sourcable, and not about keeping out any point of view that might be considered offensive. So to put this all in a nutshell: Except when reverting very obvious vandalism, you should try more discussion and dispute resolution, not because you might be wrong, but because admins don't care if you're right; edit warriors get blocked. Someguy1221 (talk) 08:08, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Ireland101 has already been warned not to try to impose tiny-minority views on Misplaced Pages. The study in question simply regurgitates the findings of an earlier and extremely controversial paper by Arnaiz-Villena and his politically-motivated colleagues in Skopje, using a single genetic marker to make far-reaching claims about the origins of the Greeks. Naturally, the results have been seized upon by racists and nationalists with a bone to pick against Greece. However, as the Arnaiz-Villena paper has been comprehensively discredited by mainstream geneticists, anti-Greek activists have turned to the more recent Tunisian study which uses the same single genetic marker, i.e. the same methodology for which the earlier paper was so vigorously criticised by Cavalli-Sforza et al.: "Using results from the analysis of a single marker, particularly one likely to have undergone selection, for the purpose of reconstructing genealogies is unreliable and unacceptable practice in population genetics." In other words, the source fails to satisfy WP:V. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 08:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Kékrōps you are ether mistaken or deliberately misleading people. The study in question is not the Arnaiz-Villena paper. Ireland101 (talk) 17:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Nrswanson article hijack attempts

Nrswanson (talk · contribs) and 2-day-old likely socks Ringnpassagio (talk · contribs) and Voicequeen (talk · contribs) are attempting to replace the established article Voice type with tne Nrswanson-written Voice classification. (I have no opinion on which version is right or wrong; however, Nrswanson has been asked to contribute to the existing articles rather than attempting end-runs around WP:CONSENSUS.)

Nrswanson establishes a consensus with the two new(/sock?) accounts to delete Voice type ("and do not merge") in favor of the Nrswanson-written Voice classification. Ringnpassagio (in this editor's 5th & 6th ever edits) promptly deletes comments from Talk:Voice type, copy/pasting to Talk:Voice classification (a discussion page that prior had only comments from Nrswanson and puppets.)

A sock puppetry report has been filed here: Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Nrswanson

I'm bringing this to ANI because this user is disrupting quite quickly. Nrswanson has already been rebuked for a similar stunt in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Falsetto, yet shows no interest in changing, continuing to edit war by restoring his Falsetto register fork of the Falsetto article (with help from his sock).

I should cite WP:OWN in here somewhere. / edg ☺ ☭ 06:58, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that's amazing. I note diff over a span of edits on 5 Dec, Nrswanson builds UP the article, adding his version, then methodically strips away all the old stuff, making it look like good faith edits, but by the end, it's all his. Ironically, he slaps an 'unicted' template at the top. Then he protects it via edit warring, sets up a redirect... what a mess. It should be reverted to the 1 Dec version, befoe he took it over. It's defintiely WP:OWNed by him. That level of action, I'd support a block, as an editor who finds the sneaky methods used to be disturbing. Finally, The actual content cahnges are problematic, because he takes out examples, and explanations, assigns gender roles without citation (it is true that only men are allowed to be basses, or are men basses by biology, not women?) and so on. His whole rewrite smacks of game-playing, and should be disallowed. ThuranX (talk) 07:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I've asked for full page protection on Falsetto register (which should be a redirect to Falsetto, per the AFD). I'm not sure the WP:RFPP staff get what's going on, so I'm not confident this page will be protected. / edg ☺ ☭ 07:32, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• I fixed the forking of voice classification and redirected to voice type, I will review the rest for OR and other issues, I don't know how current Miller's The Structure Of Singing might be in terms of current mainstream thought, so anybody who knows please let me know on my Talk page, as that would be my major source for a review of his contributions. I've watchlisted Vocal resonation, which superficially seems OK but is woefully think on citations for the amount of text. Guy (Help!) 19:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• • Just voicing full support for Guy's reversion ofthe article to its' pre-Nrswanson state. ThuranX (talk) 00:19, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I just reverted Nrswanson's reversion on Falsetto which discarded the merge decided in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Falsetto. (Nrswanson gives the same reason he gave reverting Falsetto register: "premature merge". Can we block this editor yet?)

I don't know what to make of this, but Nrswanson is applauded by Moreschi (talk · contribs) , and defended faithfully by Voceditenore (talk · contribs) (WP:SPP/Nrswanson , ; Talk:Falsetto) Both of these editors are regulars in Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Opera, seem wiki-familiar with Nrswanson, and have a history of fixing Nrswanson's poor edits (such as creating all-caps titled articles). I don't know if Nrswanson's edits are somehow imposing a "WikiProject Opera" bias upon these articles, but there is no evidence of puppetry involving these supportive editors. / edg ☺ ☭ 00:57, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Huh? Look, gentlemen. This fellow's made very fine edits to countertenor and whistle register in particular, and we shouldn't really throw that away on the basis of unverified allegations. I think he knows what he's doing. I also take exception to being accused by implication of spreading such a ludicrous notion as "WikiProject Opera bias" and meatpuppetry. Moreschi 01:08, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

There's plenty of diffs here to verify "allegations", and your comment on Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Nrswanson implies you may have read the thing. I don't see how you can defend this behavior. Albert Einstein would get kicked off Misplaced Pages for this kind of editing. / edg ☺ ☭ 01:38, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Elkman blocking himself?

This is bizarre. I guess it's related to the User:Jinxmchue discussion above. Videmus Omnia 07:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Maybe a bizarre self-enforced wikibreak? UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 08:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I've left a stunned message on his talk page. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 08:09, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

And I've unblocked him. -- tariqabjotu 08:11, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• I spy satire. Guy (Help!) 10:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• don't worry, admins do this all the time. I can list at least four other admins who've done this ;-0--Phoenix-wiki 13:47, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• Raymond Arritt (talk) raises hand sheepishly... it was an accident, honest —Preceding comment was added at 23:33, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

They aren't supposed to do that, per the blocking policy, right? J-ſtan_{User page} 18:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Thar's right.Although it's less damanging than it was in the days before logged in users could edit from blocked IP ranges. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 19:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Ireland101's behaviour

I couldn't help noticing what this user has been doing recently since from his very start on Misplaced Pages he obviously aimed at pushing some sort of agenda into so many articles - thus getting into many conflicts. What I think is he needs to get some sort of a formal warning so he stop pushing for the same things in so many articles (most of them totally irrelevant to his ideas) and most of all to stop calling people vandals for every single revert of his edits. I'd think he might not know what a vandal is, but since he's got the current infoboxes on his page he ought to be well acquainted with the subject. Just to prove my words he are his reverts on the Rosetta Stone article It is obvious he is adding some pretty strange and poorly sourced info to the article (as a few editors tried to explain to him on the talkpage, but he persists on pushing it. He has persistently referred to other editors as vandals despite the fact he got explanations as to why he was reverted. Here is the next example on Bryges where in his edit summaries he has strange comments like spiced with threats that a user'd be blocked. He are his reverts on Macedonian dynasty - I'm not sure if this removal of NPOV as he describes it compiles with any policy. I was going to point to the Vergina Sun article as well, but the revision history is full of Ireland101's edits (and with word Vandal again). It's the same with Hellenization - I'll highlight just a few edit-summaries Then comes Macedon with edits like - he seems to be using the administrators as some form of a threat so the others do not try to edit the page (I'm only sure he lied when he said this). I already mentioned his edit-pattern and how he adds the same things to other articles as well (Samuil of Bulgaria, Republic of Macedonia, Justinian I, United Macedonia, Philip II of Macedon, Kalash‎ and so on. And moreover in all this articles he is editing against at least three or four other editors (that is on every single occasion). He got warned on a number of times by others on his talkpage (without anyone calling him a vandal), but as obvious he continues to do the same things. --Laveol 10:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Worth notign that Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Ireland101_and_Tsourkpk is also about Bryges and Ireland101. He does seem to be pushing this Macedonian Identity thing pretty far and wide, and the rampant threats to get everyone else in trouble are pretty repetitive. ThuranX (talk) 13:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Ireland101 has been placed on revert parole under the Macedonia arbitration case. He is limited to one revert per page per week, excepting obvious vandalism (and changing content that he likes is not vandalism). Thatcher 02:36, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Question: User talk:65.35.219.74 - Disruption via {{NoAutosign}}?

This is probably a new one for all you admins. User talk:65.35.219.74 added {{NoAutosign}} to their talkpage. This would be perfectly fine if they weren't (deliberately?) leaving their comments unsigned. Diffs: and (which contains an attack against SineBot as well). Could this be considered disruption? NF24 14:47, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's certainly not constructive. The editor's contributions suggest that constructive editing may not be the point. --Moonriddengirl 15:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay then, not disruption. Now if someone could tell them that WP:NOT and others doesn't apply to Lamest edit wars, then maybe they would quit vandalising too. I'd do it but I usually unintentionally make things worse.NF24 15:23, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't know that it would help much, all things considered. --Moonriddengirl 18:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

User not getting the point about sockpuppetry

User:Wikinger is evading his block (again). It is incredibly obvious that 83.5.16.168 is a sockpuppet; he is once again engaging in personal attacks and editing other people's comments. See User_talk:Wikinger#Blocked to understand. Please block, and in fact extend the block on the main account. The Evil Spartan (talk) 14:50, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Given that it is probably just the users' IP address, wouldn't SSP be a better route here? - Rjd0060 (talk) 16:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

3RR violation on VanBrigglePottery and 72.11.124.226

WP:AN/3RR I believe VanBrigglePottery and 72.11.124.226 to be the same person. As they keep vandalizing the article Lakota people. As they keep reverting to the same POV wording on that page. As well the editing history of both users. Already one 3RR violation for VanBrigglePottery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Lakota_people&diff=prev&oldid=180888643

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Lakota_people&diff=prev&oldid=181197879

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Lakota_people&diff=prev&oldid=181066917

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Lakota_people&diff=181198137&oldid=180570412

I would also like to request of Semi-protection disables editing from anonymous users and registered accounts less than four days old to that article.--Duchamps_comb MFA 16:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Why didn't you report this to WP:AN3 and WP:RFPP instead? - Rjd0060 (talk) 16:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh sorry I didn't know. thanks, --Duchamps_comb MFA 16:10, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Dissruptive Editing by user Koonleg50 (talk · contribs)

This user has been engaging in disruptive editing practices for the past week on wing chun and WingTsun. This includes consistently adding WP:OR, and altering references and referenced sections. I have tried to help and compromise by working in some of the material in to a non WP:OR and a WP:NPOV format, yet he continues to revert and push more WP:OR. He also keeps insisting on wikifying a group of words on the WingTsun page, even though he's been told by other editors and my self that no such page exists, please stop per the established guidelines. He has been engaged via the talk pages for those entries as well and has had it explained how he needs verifiable references. He responded with more WP:OR, followed by more reverts on the main pages along with an addition of a link to his personal blog for a reference. The user has also used multiple anonymous IP's. I'm requesting administrator intervention. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 17:11, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I've blocked Koonleg50 for 24 hours for edit-warring and disregard of WP:V, WP:NOR, etc. In the future, it's preferable to get an admin involved before reaching 8RR on both sides, as you've both technically violated WP:3RR. However, since it appears from my review that Koonleg50 is clearly editing against policy while you are reverting to a stable and well-sourced version, I've blocked him alone rather than both of you. Call it WP:IAR if you like; it's open for review as always. MastCell 19:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate it and apologize for my part. I guess I thought by continuing to try and reason with him on the talk page it would finally get through. If he does it again after the 24 hour block or from an anonymous IP, I'll just come here right away. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 20:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Needs handling

Someone please take a look at these edits: and and , the latter 2 being where this IP used my picture off of my page and placed it on his talk page, and all 3 edits being personal attacks against me. -- ALLSTARecho 17:17, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Well I've blocked him so he can cool off but really why did you post a warning note in his talk page in the first place? All he did was to call a spammer scumbag off. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 17:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, in violation of WP:NPA, all over the place. Check all of his contribs. That's why I posted a warning in the first place. -- ALLSTARecho 17:46, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Bo;;ocks . I've reverted you. We don't welcome spammers. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 17:49, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Pierceshow (talk · contribs), TheBrianP (talk · contribs)

This seems to be a sock-puppet account. Both usernames have created an article titled Brian Pierce today, claiming the subject of the article to be the current mayor of New Berlin, Wisconsin. The article has been deleted 3 times so far today under WP:CSD#G3. TheBrianP (talk · contribs) is also engaged in an edit war on the New Berlin article with 5 reverts so far today. SWik78 (talk) 17:22, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, they might be related to Brian002100 (talk · contribs) who was a suspected sock-puppet and was blocked indefinitely on July 23 as a vandalism only account. SWik78 (talk) 17:27, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think so Pierceshow created the article months ago. Suspect two different people with the same name. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 17:31, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Judgesurreal777's deletion game

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Judgesurreal777 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for the past few months, has turned wikipedia into a deletion game, he is nominating hundreds of articles based on fictional topics for deletion using the AFD and PROD process, claiming they are not notable, when they are, Star Trek, Futurama, and the elder scrolls related articles have all been targeted and the topics are notable and they have big fan bases however he claims they are not notable and gets people who are not fans of the topic, and so will not be intrested in the topic to know what it is to claim for delete. This is all he ever does and it is causing a lot of disruption and it is reflecting that editors like him are destroying wikipedia, he is becoming very unpopular because of this deletion crusade and if anyone tries to talk him out of it he threatens them. Blueanode (talk) 17:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

It's customary to provide actual diffs of disruption if you're going to accuse someone of it. From perusing his contribs, a lot of his AFDs have ended in delete, redirect and/or merge, so he's clearly not starting them without merit. Further, you may be interested in this essay; being important to a lot of fans does not translate into actual notability. And since, at heart, all I see is a broad content dispute, you may consider requesting comment on this user. Someguy1221 (talk) 17:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

AfD is a process available to all users. He is perfectly entitled to nominate any article that he believes should be deleted with a reason based in policy. You also have the right to vote keep stating a reason based in policy. Seraphim 18:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The problem is massive amounts of articles on fictional works that totally ignore policy, that's what is causing the deletions not rouge editors. Ridernyc (talk) 18:08, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Seconding Someguy1221 here. Extensive fancruft belongs to dedicated wikis; I suggest Wikia's services. Misplaced Pages on the other hand, is an encyclopedia written from a real-live point of view and doesn't need an article for each Wazza-Bazza-Pistol someone, somewhere thought up. This is not a game - this is called building an encyclopedia. Миша13 18:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I believe the policy is unfair. Blueanode (talk) 18:11, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

You're also free to propose changes on any policy's talk page. Someguy1221 (talk) 18:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

This all raises an interesting future discussion (if there is not already one) to be held elsewhere. I was thinking only recently that a number of Star Trek related entries could be better off on the Star Trek wiki, and Family Guy on the Family Guy wiki. I'd also suggest episode guides should be scrapped, but that would be against policy. May go around Wiki now and suggesting a lot of articles for AFD. Thanks to the editor who started this thread for giving me the idea Whitstable (talk) 18:25, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

This recent arbritration case may be of use to editors here. I agree that rouge editors are not the problem; poorly created content is. Seraphim 18:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

This discussion regarding editors and the use of TW to mass nominate articles for deletion may also be helpful. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 18:47, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict encountered)

one explanation for the expression of angst: I have seen a lot of traffic on AFD generated by Judge. My understanding is that WP:FICTION is a disputed guideline, which is the source of much of the friction. There is a general misunderstanding on the part of many of the people who have authored the articles coming up for deletion that WP:V is non-negotiable and that the potential for verification through reliable sources (rather than primary sources) is needed ... it would actually be better for Judge to be focusing on nominating items for their inability to meet the verifiability criterion, which is a much stabler plank to sail on than notability criteria. Why is the notability criterion creaky? Because it is potentially negotiable; consider the people notability guideline for entertainers that states "Has a large fan base or a significant "cult" following." I've seen this invoked a couple of times (I don't have diffs at hand right now - it is infrequent) successfully. There are some aspects of "fancruft" that could pass this notability criterion if it were included in WP:FICTION - some, not most; something like "An in-universe fictional element is notable if it has a specific, significant and demonstrable "cult" following or real-life influence". In the end the "game" that Blueanode refers to might well be an attempt to get as many articles gone before a new version of the WP:FICTION guideline is in place that would allow them to stay. As pointed out, Judge is well within his rights to do this and might well argue (I would argue this as well at this time of year for some of my actions) "I have time now - I didn't have time before". It is unfortunate, though, that Judge is doing mass deletion nomination while the guideline is being re-drafted ... but there is no reason to ask him to stop, nor any justification to do so. I believe that other Admins would agree with this, as reflected by the comments above. Regards User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 18:49, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Either way, I would suggest personal attacks are not the best way forward. Whitstable (talk) 19:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

There seems to be mudslinging from both sides here and to a lesser extent here. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 19:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Even without WP:FICT the articles still fail basically every policy, WP:RS, {{WP:PLOT]], WP:OR, WP:V, while notabilty is offten the reason cited it's not the main reason,99% it's actually WP:PLOT and WP:RS. Ridernyc (talk) 19:17, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The large numbers of keeps that appear in many of those discussions suggest that a good deal of editors believe that the articles pass these guidelines. A big problem is that the guidelines and policy pages are themselves edited constantly and so what someone sees in one instance and cites as policy may be changed even minutes later when someone else decides to cite that page. I had a nice discussion about this matter recently. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 19:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• Comment - If it can be shown I have done something wrong, other than occasionally beginning to lose my cool, I am more than willing to be given guidance as to how to proceed in the future. But it seems to me than many who would keep fiction articles outside of current notability parameters are taking their anger out on me and others who are following existing policy on fiction and notability. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Commenting as a 7000+editor and a Trekkie: I have already discussed this briefly with Judgesurreal777, as I was concerned that he was raising too many PRODs at a time for defenders to be realistically able to improve/merge/otherwise rescue them. However, apart from that, I have not come across any cases where I dispute his judgment, and I do not support the complaint against him. - Fayenatic (talk) 19:19, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

JudgeSurreal777 has an attitude problem. If a AfD is not going his way, or if this one dissenter, he is very, very quick to anger. A few diffs from a recent AfD debate is a small percentage of these outbursts.

• Completely condescending and disrespectful towards admin
• Further condescending tone against same admin
• shouting down 2nd admin

He acts as though he is at war with those who support the articles, per comments like this. In AfD comments he has often slipped in remarks like this that only attack how well the article is written, rather than the importance of the subject.

Some of these articles do need to be nominated for deletion, but his explosive temper and probable priority conflicts raises the concern that he does not have the correct mindset about handling this in a respectable and responsible manner, and that he should either slow down with his AfD noms significantly, or let someone else handle this responsibility. 216.37.86.10 (talk) 19:13, 31 December 2007 (UTC) (moved here by Whitstable (talk) 19:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC))

• How about if the two sides came up with some kind of triage system in the relevant Wikiproject, to sort them into unambiguous deletable cruft, subjects worth working on to see if they can be sourced or merged, and unambiguous keeps? Articles on fictional subjects sourced entirely from primary observations are a plague - virtually everything linked to Bionicle fundamentally fails WP:V, WP:RS, WP:ATT, WP:NOR and probably WP:NPOV, and I don't think that's the only place where unchecked fandom and lack of an appropriate subject-specific Wikia or fanpedia has led to Misplaced Pages becoming the place to document your favourite Lego brick from your own microscopic examination thereof.
  So, it would be better if the fiction lovers and the cruft-deleters worked together to actively purge the project of the worst of the crap; working together would help both sides to appreciate the good in the other. Remember, folks, that the existence of a large number of articles on minor facets of fictional genres is not necessarily an indication that such articles are a good thing. we have already run through the Pokemon universe once, with good results for the project and a much more solid base for the remaining articles. It may well be time to review some of the other genres in this way. Guy (Help!) 19:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

How about blanking every fiction article and starting from scratch? Or at least looking at every article again and judging by policy? Whitstable (talk) 19:28, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Fails to recognise that many fiction articles are the result of good, thorough research. Guy (Help!) 19:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• Please do not insult other peoples' work regardless of your conception of its worth. You know that it engenders hostility if that's a word, and helps with nothing. --Kizor 19:32, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

(ec)Fair enough, I should have made it clearer outside of the edit summary that I was only being half-serious. But there does seem to be a problem here - WP:FICTION being disputed does, in some circumstances, appear to outweigh other policies that are not disputed. As Guy says, "the existence of a large number of articles on minor facets of fictional genres is not necessarily an indication that such articles are a good thing," and I cannot agree any more than I do with that. There also appear to be problems in the AFD system in that those who are more likely to take part in Star Trek-related (for example) AFDs are quite likely to be Star Trek fans who will vote to keep, whatever policy is involved. But yes, will agree with Guy that a lot of further discussion is needed elsewhere on this one. Whitstable (talk) 19:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

My comment was addressed to Guy, not you - the suggestion of destroying years of work made me visibly cringe, but was not an insult as such. (Sorry if the * made it unclear.) --Kizor 19:45, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

No worries, must be the time of year! Hope worthwhile discussion does come of this to the benefit of the project Whitstable (talk) 19:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Comment why is this still even being discussed. there has not been a single bad faith nomination shown, The editor who complained basically admitted his issue is really with policy. It's been shown that the editor who started this complaint has been uncivil in the past. Conversations about policies on fiction are pretty much a waste of time here, nearly every guideline on fiction is being rewritten right now. Ridernyc (talk) 20:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Gerda9

Gerda9 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a single-purpose account concerned only with repeatedly creating Future food. User completely refuses to engage in any discussion either on his/her own talk page or the article talk page. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 19:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

False accusation. The user was not greeted in polite way. The repeated deletion of their contributions may naturally be considered as an annoying harassment of a newcomer. I suggest you to review Don't bite newcomers and WP:VANDAL before labelling someone "vandal". Also, please assume good faith to understand that the person simply does not know wikipedia ways and places to talk. `'Míkka>t 19:27, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

To be fair, no one has left a note requesting that this user engage in discussion - I see only templated deletion messages on the talk page. I left a note asking the user to stop re-creating the page and instead discuss the reasons why it's being deleted. If they keep going with article re-creations after that, then a block would be in order. MastCell 19:25, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Could the page be salted, may be easier? Whitstable (talk) 19:27, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Awesome! "protect" on redlinks. I love that. I've given it six months, it's clear the time is not yet ripe but it might be one day. Guy (Help!) 19:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

This is already resolved, but:

I only used the vandal tag as a way to easily expand the user's contribs, talk page, logs, etc. I wasn't implying the user was a vandal.

The templated deletion messages on the user's talk page do invite discussion, which invitation the user has not accepted. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 19:54, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I understand; I use those templates myself, and I'm not accusing you of anything. I've just become a bit more sensitive to how forbidding and unintuitive Misplaced Pages's system has become, so I try (not always successfully) to err on the side of a more personalized and informative message when time permits. Anyhow, it looks like things are resolved, and I didn't mean to imply you'd done anything wrong. MastCell 19:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

No offense taken, MastCell. I just wanted to clarify since I was challenged. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 20:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Phantomhacker (talk · contribs)

Phantomhacker (talk · contribs) - is this person's User page grounds for indef. blocking? Corvus cornix_talk 19:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I've given a final warning. Hut 8.5 19:45, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Just some fool kid. I'd like to go to his talk page and taunt him "Go on then" but I wont. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 19:50, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Block on DarkFierceDeityLink--too lenient?

Can some other admins look at the 24 hour block I just placed on DarkFierceDeityLink (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)? It relates to the user's increasing belligerence and incivility topped off by this gem. Now that I look back at the edit that set it over the edge, I'm thinking maybe I was a little too lenient. Thoughts? Metros (talk) 19:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Well I've only looked at his block log so far, but since he has already had a short block for incivility which didn't seem to curb him my first thought would be to up ot to medium term. Say a week. But like I said I haven't looked into the history. What provoked the ourburst? Theresa Knott | The otter sank 19:58, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

DFDL warned EveryDayJoe45 with a vandalism warning and called him a "waste of sperm". I came along and changed the heading on that and warned DFDL for incivility. This prompted this discussion on my talk page. EveryDayJoe45 responded to DFDL with this which had a personal attack in it. EveryDayJoe45 was upset because he was warned for an article he has never edited and because he was attacked as a "waste of sperm" by DFDL. I warned him about the personal attacks which is when DFDL posted this to my talk page which prompted the blocking.

DFDL had been on my radar for the last couple of weeks because of vandalism to the Jamie Lynn Spears article and talk page which were completely out of line and violated BLP. Thoughts with this background information now? Metros (talk) 20:25, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

DFDL's on my list after placing an {{indefblockeduser}} tag on User talk:V-Dash, although he was not indef-blocked. Good block. -Jéské 23:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Dawat-e-Islami threat

See this threat. Corvus cornix_talk 19:50, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

And another - . Corvus cornix_talk 19:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Outsider's comment Those are worrying; while the threats are highly unrealistic (if this sort of thing were possible we would've fallen to 4chan ages ago), they do seem to foreshadow that the article will be seeing some more activity... perhaps a semi-protection? Master of Puppets 19:58, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think we need worry about the threats. I suspect the anon has severly underestimated the regular traffic we get. However I have semiprotected the article for a week to stop the vandalism. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 20:07, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Tens of millions of Dawat members in small-town UK, eh? Avruchtalk 20:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Possible ban

See Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard#Silly people, Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Redspork Friend001 and Category:Suspected Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of House1090 for relevant information. Redspork Friend001 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), another House sock as per the checkuser, did this in an attempt to get Redspork02 (talk · contribs) into trouble. House has used a variety of socks and has generally been a right pain, see things like this, this and this, and so as far as I am concerned he is Misplaced Pages:Banning policy#Community ban. I post here for review and to see if anyone disagrees. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 20:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• Support While he was not a good editor, some of his editing interests coincided with mine. So while I support the notion of a community-ban, I'd appreciate not mass-deleting all his articles, some of which I've provided references for, others of which I may find time to work on eventually. Amerique 00:53, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

User Barefact (talk · contribs) and personal attacks

Barefact (talk · contribs) has made a personal attack against me before . He has been warned before for doing this: ] but no action was taken except a warning. Thus realizing no action was taken last time, he did it here again: ]. He calls me a "militant ethnic editor". I should not have to tolerate this, but do not want to escalate my language to his level. I explained the logic of my revert in the talkpage of the article and the issue was an editorial dispute. But his labeling ], which he has been warned for before , makes resolving future editorial disputes harder. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 20:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Unless there's anything more here, these diffs are only deserving of another warning. Two incivil acts seperated by 10 months don't warrant administrative attention. Someguy1221 (talk) 22:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

AntsOnNuts

Links: AntsOnNuts (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Not too sure what to do. User:AntsOnNuts Has only made one edit but it could be interpreted as a threat - given the username - to vandalise in the future. WP:NOT a crystal ball, but...? Whitstable (talk) 22:55, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't see it as a threat, but I do see it as an account that will only be used for trolling. That diff is just an attempt at getting around BLP. EVula // talk // ☯ // 23:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

As EVula says, not an immediate threat, but keep an eye out for things worsening, and block if necessary. Anthøny (talk) 23:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I've just {{usernameblocked}} the account. It's clear from the comment that the username is intended to be construed in a vulgar manner. -- The Anome (talk) 00:57, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

User:146.115.43.96 continues censoring wikipedia in numerous edits

Many of his edits relate removing cited information on negative receptions that a band he likes has gotten.

He has been warned numerous times against doing this. Hoponpop69 (talk) 01:08, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Y2008 bot bug

It seems that the vandal-reverting bots are lagging behind UTC time, and are putting "December 2007" when warning users (see ). Bot owners should try to fix this, since bots are probably going to give out hundreds of warnings by the time 2008 reaches the western hemisphere. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 01:11, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

It's likely that they are just in a different timezone to the Misplaced Pages servers, one where it's still December 2007 at the moment; give them time to see the New Year in. If it's still happening 24 hours from now, that's another matter. -- The Anome (talk) 02:19, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Two hours to go where I am. I'm still waiting for the Times Square ball drop :) Voice-of-All 03:02, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Move protect/deletion request

Due to page move vandal by JtV, please move User talk:Jetlover to User talk:JetLover. Delete Jetlover's talk page. Also, move protect my talk page and user page and JetLover's too. Thanks. miranda 01:46, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

And, protect this little fiasco, too. User_talk:Mr._Bracey. miranda 01:58, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Fastnaturedude threatened

Please look at User:Fastnaturedude (if it hasn't been reverted yet). An anon has threatened this user. The user had contacted me personally, but I'm not sure exactly how to deal with this, and I'm not available to edit because of real life plans. Anyone care to investigate further and follow through? Thanks.-Andrew c  02:10, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

The relevant diff is this one, to make it easier for everyone. WHOIS shows the IP is registered to comcast in Michigan, so probably static. Would probably be easy enough to report to the appropriate police department if anyone cares to. While normally these things are shrugged off, Fastnaturedude has identified himself as a Michigan resident, so there's a good chance this might have actually come from someone who knows him. Someguy1221 (talk) 02:40, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Given that the user saw the threat (as evident from this), I'd say if the user wanted authorities contacted, s/he would have done so. I don't really think anybody else needs to do anything, except give the IP a block. A look at the contributions from it show that whoever has been using it since the 13th of December isn't being constructive, at all. - Rjd0060 (talk) 02:51, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

1. Cite error: The named reference Phoebe was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
2. Fisman, Raymond. "The Myth of the Asian Fetish: An Economist Goes to a BarSlate magazine (2007-11-07). Retrieved on 2007-11-09.
3. Fisman, Raymond; Iyengar, Sheena S.; Kamenica, Emir; Simonson, Itamar. "Racial Preferences in Dating". 2007-05-11. Retrieved on 2007-11-09
4. neela. "Asian Fetish Myth: Not Debunked". 2007-11-08. Retrieved on 2007-12-26
5. Tkacik, Moe. "Are "Asian Fetishes" A Myth? We're Gonna Have To Go With "No" http://jezebel.com (2007-11-08). Retrieved on 2007-12-26
6. Fisman, Raymond. "The Myth of the Asian Fetish: An Economist Goes to a BarSlate magazine (2007-11-07). Retrieved on 2007-11-09.
7. Fisman, Raymond; Iyengar, Sheena S.; Kamenica, Emir; Simonson, Itamar. "Racial Preferences in Dating". 2007-05-11. Retrieved on 2007-11-09