Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 09:29, 13 January 2008

User talk:Stone put to sky/Archive 1 User talk:Stone put to sky/Archive 3

Your message

Thanks for the message. Your friend sounds like quite the adventurer; you know we could really use your help on Ukelele if you have the time. You have expert knowledge that we need. You don't even need to edit the page if you lack the time or interest; criticism on the talk page would be just as welcome. There's also Talk:Ukulele/Comments. Thanks. —Viriditas | Talk 08:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Request

Next time you make false accusations regarding me, please present evidence.--MONGO 12:07, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I have not made any sorts of false accusations about you. And you know that. Stone put to sky (talk) 08:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

This bogus unsubstantiated post to AN/I is precisely the kind of misinformation and wrongful allegation I am referring to. Don't repeat this kind of nonsense unless you can provide evidence. There is the distinct possibility that more than a few people other than myself and the others you slandered might disagree with you. I haven't edited that page for six months, Tom harrison hasn't edited anywhere since 11/24 and Morton Devonshire left the project before that. Get your facts straight next time....and cease making insults.--MONGO 09:03, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The page is in a diff here on Misplaced Pages as well as a long thread on another site which, conveniently enough, includes a great many people who have gotten quite familiar with your shenanigans from the inside.

As for my own evidence, let's just say that you've met me before but forgot who i am. So my suggestion is that people in glass houses shouldn't start throwing stones. Stone put to sky (talk) 09:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the laugh, Stone. I figure your banning is inevitable...I'll just wait for you to call someone a fascist again just because they disagree with you.--MONGO 09:19, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean to say that using the word "fascist" is worse than insulting someone as being a "liberal"? Stone put to sky (talk) 11:38, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, yeah. I don't see anything bad with being a labelled a liberal or a conservative for that matter. Calling anyone here a fascist has an entirely different meaning.--MONGO 20:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Stone, to put everything in perspective, I am a conservative. However, I also know that my contributions to Misplaced Pages must be from a neutral point of view as per our policy here. I also have some friends and even a few relatives who are moderate liberals. To be honest, they know that this is their political view, and they will admit it with no shame. If you called me a liberal, I wouldn't care for it, but it wouldn't offend me either. If you are a liberal, that's fine with me. Here is where we have a problem - You really need to stop using the word "fascist". Please see this section here: Differences and similarities with Nazism from our encyclopedia page defining the term. You are treading into thin ice using this word to describe users who view differently than you do. If you keep this up, will be reported for disruption. Please consider my advice and do not ever use that term again to describe other users here. JungleCat Shiny!/Oohhh! 02:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Come now -- you are one of the most extreme and biased editors on Misplaced Pages. For my part, my edits have presented only bare, neutral facts for the simple reason that any time i have tried to add neutral, properly sourced commentary MONGO has rounded up his passel of sockpuppeteers and kiddie-thugs and had them delete it. Both of you are well known for your lack of both neutrality and civility in Misplaced Pages, so it is quite ironic to see you popping in here to lecture me on the mattter. Stone put to sky (talk) 07:43, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

First, i think that Misplaced Pages has made it quite clear that when we are discussing matters of protocol and sourcing the website itself is not to be used.

Second, the Nazis were not the only fascists. There were British, Italian, Central European (Croatian and Czech, in particular), Russian and French fascists. As well as quite a large number of U.S. fascists, as well (of which our current president's grandfather -- along with Henry Ford -- was a loud and proud supporter).

My suggestion to you both is that you need to get out of the house a bit more. Judging by the amount of time you each spend on Misplaced Pages you really don't have enough experience of this world to be attempting the arguments you are putting forth here, because with only a tiny bit more research on the word you'd discover that fascism as a political philosophy is still alive and well with supporters who are happily, openly going about their work in places like Italy, France, Germany, Japan, and Britain (among other places). There are Russian and Central European fascists, as well -- not to mention folks here in the U.S, most of whom call themselves "libertarian" or "conservative", these days. Simply because you two do not particularly care to be labeled as a "fascist" does not, ipso facto, turn that particular word into an insult - it is a clearly defined, neutral term which, in all its aspects, perfectly fits Devonshire, MONGO and Harrison's political advocacy (i have much less interaction with JungleCat, so i can' really say one way or the other on that). It is a name that many people around the world use to describe their political philosophy, and when they use the word they speak it proudly and without shame. Unlike MONGO's use of the term "liberals" or "extremists", there is nothing a priori insulting about the word.

Simply put, my use of the word "fascist" is as a neutral, descriptive term; perhaps you don't know any true Fascists. I, however, happen to count at least two as close personal friends of mine. I myself am not a fascist, and i think the perspective of people who advocate fascism is rather painfully limited and potentially destructive (fearsomely so). However, in the case of those two personal friends of mine i am still able to discuss politics with them politely and openly, and -- unlike in my relations with the cabal that you two happen to be a part of -- we are able to find a rhetorical space that allows for intelligent conversation.

So i must, once again, politely decline your admonitions. If you would like to take this up as an RfC somewhere i'll be happy to attend. Until such time, however, that the Oxford Dictionary singularly labels this particular word as a "pejorative epithet" (those big words are what we linguists use to mean "insult"), then you must simply deal with the fact that you are not allowed to stop people from using it when referring to you. Stone put to sky (talk) 07:36, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Your "fascist" friends...do you call them "dumbshit"s as well? It does seem old news ot warn you about what you did sometime ago. But since you seem to not understand that it is just as unacceptable now as it was then, I guess I'll have to waste editing time dealing with your ongoing inability to adhere to our policies.--MONGO 08:28, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

"Our" policies? They seem more like "MONGO's personal policies" to me. At any rate, the "dumbshit" was clearly beyond the pale, which i admitted and am recalcitrant over. I haven't made that mistake again, and i won't. But i will insist, once again, that it was not the word "fascist" that was an insult. By adding "dumbshit" to *any* phrase it becomes an insult. Such as if someone were to call me a "dumbshit anarchist" -- insult, yes. But not the "anarchist" part.

And i will once again point out the implicit threat in your words; you are acting like the famed bully you are well known to be, MONGO -- appearing, once again, on my talk page and issuing threats all made up as if Misplaced Pages guidelines support you.

Of course, you may get me banned -- but it won't have anything to do with Misplaced Pages guidelines. It will, instead, be a product of the scheming you do on your off-site IRC chats and noticeboards. Stone put to sky (talk) 08:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Is that a fact? I see, I am so nefarious in my actions. I am asking you for the last time to adhere to our policies, and those include not using derogatory terms to describe those you disagree with. In case you have not seen them before, look at WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. I don't appreciate being called a fascist or having my integrity impuned with false allegations about running some cabal.--MONGO 08:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Asking me to adhere to which policy would that be, exactly? Once again: "fascist" in and of itself is not an inherently derogatory term. If you don't believe me then simply go look it up in a dictionary or political science textbook. As for your running of the cabal, there is at least one person who has publicy come out and exposed it. You know who i'm talking about, so i won't bother to link to the diffs. In addition to him, though, there are others i know who have (and are willing to publish) documentary evidence to back up their own claims. And then, of course, there are my own logs and e-mails. I'm not ready to move yet, MONGO, but when i am it really won't matter if it's under this name or another one, so ban away. Stone put to sky (talk) 09:03, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Stone...you're referring to a posting by NuclearUmpf, who was banned. His accusation that things were coordinated off wiki was nonsense...many people from different political perspectives watch those pages...and this website has people who are no longer editing or have just arrived....it is constantly in a state of flux. NuclearUmpf returned as editor SevenOfDiamonds and the arbitration committee banned that account as well. If you wish to see my actions as being "wrong", there is nothing I can do about that...but to post inaccurate and unsubstantiated claims against myself and others when I haven't touched the page you're alluding to in over 6 months, is a pretty bad example of your inability to refrain from no personal attacks and your ongoing incivility. If you have suspicions regarding myself or others using alternative accounts (sockpuppets) to edit war on the pages you suggest, then you should take your evidence to Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser to get it substantiated...I think you'll be disappointed when you find your allusion is erroneous.--MONGO 09:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Denial of Consensus

Allegations of state terrorism by the United States has you denying the good faith attempt to build consensus per Consensus, please read this policy. We are trying to determine if the citations meet WP policy, specifically RS. You are required to either participate in good faith, or not participate if you prefer. Statements like "Once again: specious argument. See the above comments by BernardL regarding the Atlantic, NR, Monthly Review,etc. and by me regarding Granma. AHRC, etc. They all apply equally well here. Stone put to sky (talk) 08:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)" don't stall the consensus process, because you are not engaged in a good faith consensus effort. Such "boilerplate statements may be ignored. Don't waste the bytes. They don't work, when you offer these they may be ignored.

Please engage (or not), but do so ONLY with a good faith effort. Raggz (talk) 09:10, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Violation of Consensus

Please read your writing below. We not only agreed to comply with Consensus, You proposed three day notice on TALK. While this is an informal and non-binding guideline, I point out that you are NOT even using TALK at all. Raggz (talk) 09:23, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

"I'm sorry, Raggz, but this is more appropriate on the talk page. I must once again protest that you should be addressing these issues there. Finally, i will once again point out that, in fact, it is you who is violating the consensus on the page. You are attempting to introduce weasel words into the introduction and eliminate a good deal of content on the basis of specious interpretations of wikipedia guidelines. Stone put to sky (talk) 09:12, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Once again: you did not clear that change with the people who are here. For future reference, i would suggest a waiting period of at least 36 hours before presuming that you have some sort of agreement here. Many of the maintainers of this page are quite busy -- i'm on a few off-days right now, so right now i happen to have the time to spend on helping you out, here -- but many of them are also quite busy and don't appear every day. Simply declaring that you are going to edit the page because you think an agreement has been reached in no way indicates an agreement has been reached anywhere except in your own mind, and waiting 30 minutes to then proceed from there to the actual edit -- without any input from the community of page maintainers -- is, as i have explained to you repeatedly, not a good method to use on this page. Simply put: if you make edits without first clearing them with the community of page maintainers here then you are almost certain to see them reverted. I have already explained to you why that is the case several times, now. Once again: my suggestion is that you create a sandbox and make your suggestions there, first. Then we can all make contributions and debate the changes without causing an edit war.

Of course, I am presuming that you are not interested in sparking an edit war. Am i wrong in that? Stone put to sky (talk) 09:01, 9 January 2008 (UTC)"

Not using talk? I just returned from there. It is you who are posting here -- which is obviously not on the State Terrorism talk page -- whereas it is i who is posting in the appropriate place. I have given clear and unambiguous responses to every comment you have posted. And finally, although you did wait three days you never did gain consensus for the proposed changes. In fact,although three days have passed since you first attempted the alteration to the page, it is only just now that you ever posted the proposed alterations to the talk page -- thus, it would be from *now* that the "3 days" commences; not 3 days back. Stone put to sky (talk) 09:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)