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*'''Third opinion''' - Having read the entire talk page below, I strongly agree with ]. Based on the discussions below, it's clear that for the purposes of this industry, "nationwide" is not being used literally. ] (]) 19:09, 17 January 2008 (UTC) | *'''Third opinion''' - Having read the entire talk page below, I strongly agree with ]. Based on the discussions below, it's clear that for the purposes of this industry, "nationwide" is not being used literally. ] (]) 19:09, 17 January 2008 (UTC) | ||
I belive that these two users have previously interacted and am seeking an additional third opinion | |||
== Claro == | == Claro == |
Revision as of 21:28, 17 January 2008
ALLTELl
I have put Altell into the National Network Category. Alltell owns spectrum and is now avalaible in all 50 states making it a nationwide candiate. Any opbjucetion please post on my talk page Jdchamp31 (talk) 16:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
- If you look below you'll see this has been discussed to death, and insofar as there's a consensus, it's that it's the largest super-regional operator, not a national operator given it only covers about 60% of the US population. Alltel is a very large operator, and is the reason why the seperate "super-regional" category was created. Squiggleslash (talk) 16:51, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
- I am reverting and as I said it is time to get a delibrator in to discuss this issue and make a decision. You have no more control over this matter than I do Jdchamp31 (talk) 17:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
- Will you PLEASE stop screwing around with the page? If you are serious about believing that Alltel belongs in the National carriers area, you would at least have the decency to discuss this issue and respond both to the comments I've made and address why you believe the consensus shown below is no longer applicable. While I have no objection to you getting a "delibrator", I can't help but feel you're wasting his or her time if you're not willing to discuss controversial changes before making them and calling such a person in. It's very bad form to repeatedly make edits that are controversial, to refuse to discuss them, and to immediately call in administrator help. Please discuss this first and don't make your changes until there's been more discussion: I can't help but feel that such deliberate changes made fully in the knowledge that they're disputed count as acts of vandalism. --Squiggleslash (talk) 17:53, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
- Then report me for vandalism I am not violating rules you have violated the 3RR —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdchamp31 (talk • contribs) 18:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
- I have reverted your edits twice. That is not a breach of WP:3RR. And again I ask you to show good faith and perform the basic minimums here: respect the consensus, discuss controversial changes before making them (and remove them now that you've put them back a third time), and call in administrator help only after you've discussed the issue. I cannot for the life of me fathom why you're approaching this the way you are, even attacking me on my Talk: page and inserting a bogus claim of edit warring there. --Squiggleslash (talk) 18:53, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
- Third opinion - Having read the entire talk page below, I strongly agree with Squiggleslash. Based on the discussions below, it's clear that for the purposes of this industry, "nationwide" is not being used literally. Tanthalas39 (talk) 19:09, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I belive that these two users have previously interacted and am seeking an additional third opinion
Claro
Why is "the fourth largest mobile phone network operator in the world, with more than 130 million customers" listed in "Minor-regional network operators" and not in "Major network operators"? The fact that it has no presence in the USA shouldn't matter, the number of customers does. Pmbarros 19:57, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
- See the article title, "American mobile phone companies". We're only talking about the US portions of the operators listed. An operator with absolutely no presence in the USA shouldn't even be on the list. And if we add operators who have some kind of involvement in the US, but using their international subscription numbers, then AT&T and Verizon will end up dropping down to where nobody expects them, Sprint will virtually disappear, and as for poor old Alltel, we'll probably have to create a whole new category for it (again.) --Squiggleslash 20:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
- So this is "American" as in "From the United States" and not "American" as in "From America"? In this case, Claro was added in error. Pmbarros 19:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- Well, the two terms are synonymous. America refers to the country, North America and South America refer to the two continents. (And Central America refers to the bit in-between.) Yeah, looks like we should remove Claro, unless they have an MVNO presence --Squiggleslash 21:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- Actually, "America" refers to the whole continent, from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego (even more because Americo Vespucci has never been anywhere near the USA when he discovered that America was a new continent. As far as I know, Claro has only presence in Latin American countries, so it should be removed. Pmbarros 17:18, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Alltel
It seems to me most believe Alltel should be with the top 5 as major (judging by the edits). I will place it back there if more people feel the same. That argument I laid out below is substantial enough to warrant it being moved. The anonymous editor below is one person who seems to not get that the facts outweigh their argument. If editing continues by other users to move it to the area with the other top 5 carriers I will edit it again to reflect more accurately. Strunke 19:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- I thought the creation of the Super Regional tier for it was a good compromise to be honest (and most of the arguments I've seen support that view.) Alltel is comparatively tiny compared to the other four; and it has serious coverage issues (even if on paper it looks good, but it's the example to use when comparing geographic vs population coverage.) I don't see the logic for including it with T-Mobile, Verizon, et al. --Squiggleslash 20:00, 16 July 2007 (UTC) But Alltel is America's Largest wireless network.
- What coverage issues? The title major network operator has nothing to do with whether a company has a contiguous network (which none of them really have). Alltel has the largest network out of all the carriers in the United States. That is a major network no matter what way it is spun. The "major" carriers rely on Alltel to provide coverage in areas outside of major roads and cities. The only argument that makes any sense not to call it a major network operator is population covered. Which doesn't mean much besides assessing business related issues, such as investing in the cell phone company, growth opportunity, etc. The facts are all below, 1) They have the largest owned and operated coverage area/network. 2) Competing directly with the top 4 carriers in every market served, pricing, advertising, etc. 3) Size of the company, Alltel's market cap is almost 25 billion. The next highest carrier is USCC with 4 or 5 billion. While T-Mobile (USA) would garner about 30-40 billion. The gap is too large between uscc and alltel, and much more comparative between alltel and t-mobile. 4) Aesthetics, a top 5 listing looks far more appropriate then top 4. 5) semantics, by definition a major "network operator" would include the operator with the largest network., Those are just 5 reasons that Alltel should be listed with the top tier compared to 1 reason not to. Strunke 03:25, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- Alltel does not have the largest by population, as I said above Alltel is a textbook example of the difference between population and geographic coverage. In real terms, population coverage is the only coverage that matters. The other points you raise really aren't in Alltel's favour, as you mention all four *major* operators are substantially larger (as in order of magnitude) in every metric save for geographic coverage.
- Most of the replies in the discussion below do not agree with you that Alltel is in the same league as the big four. It appears to be the consensus that Alltel doesn't really fit with them. I support the creation of the "Super Regional" Tier which I think is a reasonable compromise, clearly Alltel is substantially larger than, say, MetroPCS, but in practical terms it doesn't have the ability, yet, to compete with the big four on anything approaching a level playing field.
- I'm not dissing Alltel, I'm sure they're a fine operator, but they're not up there yet with T-Mobile and Sprint, let alone Verizon or AT&T. --Squiggleslash 15:56, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- It is not a consensus at all, I was not the first person to put them with the top 4 I merely provided perspective to stop the edit wars by many many different people a few months ago because they realize what I do. How are the other points not in Alltel's favor? That doesn't make any sense at all. They compete directly with the national carriers. Even the JD powers assessments put their network in most markets above and some equal to verizon in the places where both carriers were, above sprint, att, and t-mo in all markets studied where alltel is offered (other regional carriers didn't make the top 5, except for uscc in one market). Besides population there is no other benchmark. A major network operator, means, a Major Network operator. Alltel fits that by it's purest definition. This isn't about opinions on what is meant by major network, this is about true facts and definitions, it's an encyclopedia, that is yet another reason to put alltel with the top 4. It makes no sense to have alltel as a regional carrier with carriers that aren't in the same league as alltel. I don't know, let's see 6 or so reasons to maybe 2 (with one being a complete disregard for the actual title of the listed carrier, "major network operators"), let's use logic and reason here. It's 5v1 or 6v2 in points of interest in this debate...Strunke 23:19, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not dissing Alltel, I'm sure they're a fine operator, but they're not up there yet with T-Mobile and Sprint, let alone Verizon or AT&T. --Squiggleslash 15:56, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Major and Minor
The top 5 carriers are major carriers. As of now it is AT&T, Alltel, VZW, Sprint, and T-mobile. The rest fall under minor and other, this makes the most sense especially when you look at the size of each company and financial numbers.....Strunke 19:52, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- Is Alltel to be considered a major carrier? They're not listed as one of the top carriers in most situations. It doesn't provide nationwide coverage in the five highest populated cities in the country. I would list them as a regional carrier. I don't see them as being any different than US Cellular. --Адам12901 /C 05:31, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
- The do provide nationwide coverage, they just do not have a license to serve from the fcc in the major areas like nyc, chicago, and la. Cingular/att, vzw, t-mobile, and sprint do not have licenses to serve the entire nation either, but they do have them in the major cities listed. They should be considered a major carrier. They have 12 million customers, the largest owned geographical network in the US, and it's major competitors are the other top 4 not the smaller carriers (plans-wise, coverage-wise, etc) Financially none of the minor carriers compare to alltel (it's market cap is around 25 billion) compared to the next highest US Cellular which is 4 billion. Besides these facts a "top 5" listing is more appropriate aesthetically. Strunke 06:38, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
- Throughout the article for Alltel, they are referred to as a regional carrier. Throughout the United States section of the T-Mobile article, it is called the smallest national carrier. If the previous comment is correct and they have 12 million customers, than T-Mobile has over two times as many with 26 million. In addition, Alltel does not serve seven of America's top ten cities. It also does not serve the BosWash megalopolis, which includes 45 million people, approx. one in six Americans. Alltel can hardly be called a national carrier. --69.123.165.15 02:22, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
- It's not called national carrier, it's called major networks. Which Alltel is given the facts I previously stated.Strunke 07:19, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
- However, the other section is designated "Minor and Regional" which is in contrast to "Major" and which presumably implies national as a contrast to regional. When you don't serve the Northeast Corridor, don't serve the West Coast, and have half as many people as T-Mobile, you are not a Major carrier. About one-third of the country by population is not covered by Alltel... and that's just on the West Coast and in the Northeast Corridor. I didn't bother to do the entire country thinking one-third is massive enough. --69.123.165.15 01:50, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
- It does cover more of the United States then any other carrier. Population or not. It is a major network operator in it's purest definition. The next carrier down to USCC is a 20 billion dollar jump in market value. Population covered is the ONLY way that it can be considered a minor carrier. Aesthetically, known network size, and stats wise it belongs in the major network operators.Strunke 06:35, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
- Population covered is the most important indicator of network size. You cannot attract enough customers to be considered a major carrier if you don't cover enough people. T-Mobile has twice as many people as Alltel. That's a major jump. Additonally, the article itself calls Alltel the largest regional carrier. Perhaps there should be a new category for carriers such as Alltel and US Cellular separating minor carriers from regional carriers, as Alltel is somewhere in the middle and US Cellular is referred to as "Super-regional." --69.123.165.15 18:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
- It is not THE most important factor when considering network size. It is the most important factor when assessing business/profit potential but not network size. Just because it doesn't cover an area where the most people are doesn't make it a smaller network. Having the largest network in overall coverage is far more important. That is what the average person would think of when you say "largest network". It is the very definition of "major network". I changed it to more appropriate titles but it still is not an accurate portrayal alltel's network. What is your motive in moving it down a notch? Pretty much anyone can see that Alltel belongs in the major section and not anywhere else. They compete with the major networks, they have the largest network, the difference between the 5th and 6th networks are very far apart compared to 4th and 5th, and it plain looks better with the top 5 instead of 4. This will likely be a moot point in the next year or two when alltel picks up spectrum in the next government auction (700 mhz) which will make it a "national" carrier. I don't have any stock in alltel, i have used there service, but i do not work there or anything. Just curious what your motive is in anonymously editing this, this way. Strunke 06:07, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
- My real, top secret motive is this... I find their commercials irritating. Very hackish and annoying. Really irritating. --69.123.165.15 22:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
- Okay, so compromise the integrity of Misplaced Pages? Awesome.Strunke 03:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
- My real, top secret motive is this... I find their commercials irritating. Very hackish and annoying. Really irritating. --69.123.165.15 22:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
- It is not THE most important factor when considering network size. It is the most important factor when assessing business/profit potential but not network size. Just because it doesn't cover an area where the most people are doesn't make it a smaller network. Having the largest network in overall coverage is far more important. That is what the average person would think of when you say "largest network". It is the very definition of "major network". I changed it to more appropriate titles but it still is not an accurate portrayal alltel's network. What is your motive in moving it down a notch? Pretty much anyone can see that Alltel belongs in the major section and not anywhere else. They compete with the major networks, they have the largest network, the difference between the 5th and 6th networks are very far apart compared to 4th and 5th, and it plain looks better with the top 5 instead of 4. This will likely be a moot point in the next year or two when alltel picks up spectrum in the next government auction (700 mhz) which will make it a "national" carrier. I don't have any stock in alltel, i have used there service, but i do not work there or anything. Just curious what your motive is in anonymously editing this, this way. Strunke 06:07, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
- Population covered is the most important indicator of network size. You cannot attract enough customers to be considered a major carrier if you don't cover enough people. T-Mobile has twice as many people as Alltel. That's a major jump. Additonally, the article itself calls Alltel the largest regional carrier. Perhaps there should be a new category for carriers such as Alltel and US Cellular separating minor carriers from regional carriers, as Alltel is somewhere in the middle and US Cellular is referred to as "Super-regional." --69.123.165.15 18:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
- It does cover more of the United States then any other carrier. Population or not. It is a major network operator in it's purest definition. The next carrier down to USCC is a 20 billion dollar jump in market value. Population covered is the ONLY way that it can be considered a minor carrier. Aesthetically, known network size, and stats wise it belongs in the major network operators.Strunke 06:35, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
- However, the other section is designated "Minor and Regional" which is in contrast to "Major" and which presumably implies national as a contrast to regional. When you don't serve the Northeast Corridor, don't serve the West Coast, and have half as many people as T-Mobile, you are not a Major carrier. About one-third of the country by population is not covered by Alltel... and that's just on the West Coast and in the Northeast Corridor. I didn't bother to do the entire country thinking one-third is massive enough. --69.123.165.15 01:50, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
- It's not called national carrier, it's called major networks. Which Alltel is given the facts I previously stated.Strunke 07:19, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
- Throughout the article for Alltel, they are referred to as a regional carrier. Throughout the United States section of the T-Mobile article, it is called the smallest national carrier. If the previous comment is correct and they have 12 million customers, than T-Mobile has over two times as many with 26 million. In addition, Alltel does not serve seven of America's top ten cities. It also does not serve the BosWash megalopolis, which includes 45 million people, approx. one in six Americans. Alltel can hardly be called a national carrier. --69.123.165.15 02:22, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
- The do provide nationwide coverage, they just do not have a license to serve from the fcc in the major areas like nyc, chicago, and la. Cingular/att, vzw, t-mobile, and sprint do not have licenses to serve the entire nation either, but they do have them in the major cities listed. They should be considered a major carrier. They have 12 million customers, the largest owned geographical network in the US, and it's major competitors are the other top 4 not the smaller carriers (plans-wise, coverage-wise, etc) Financially none of the minor carriers compare to alltel (it's market cap is around 25 billion) compared to the next highest US Cellular which is 4 billion. Besides these facts a "top 5" listing is more appropriate aesthetically. Strunke 06:38, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
MetroPCS
MetroPCS does actually own its own network in the PCS band (in the US). I am removing it from the list of virtual providers and moving it to the reg. provider catagory. Please let me know if you have an objection to this. --Wesman83 04:08, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
- No problem :) --Admrb♉ltz (T | C) 05:00, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Revol & other wireless providers
Do we want this to be a comprehensive selector, or just a link to the largest providers and MVNOs? I notice Revol isn't on the list (see Revol_(Cell_Phone_Operator)) and am willing to do the work if anyone can clarify the situation. :) lilewyn 20:04, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
- I think the largest ones; and I nominated that article for Misplaced Pages:Proposed deletion, as it is a very very short article at the moment... Admrb♉ltz (T | C | k) 20:34, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
- I'm working on the article for it now. It was a stub. Terribly a stub. Nastily a stub. Poor stub. Metro has, what, seven cities or whatever it covers, and Revol's a (specialty) regional carrier that's starting to pick up the pace quite a bit around here. I've done some peeking around online, in brochures, and in phone conversations with a company representitive, and am fairly sure I can make something better than a stub. I may need some help though! (wikipedians forgive me! :D ) lilewyn 00:48, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Requested move
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the proposal was Move. Lack of opposition = consensus :-) Duja► 10:03, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Judging from the comments about Claro above, and the fact it's been added a couple of times, it's not clear to all that this template is talking about the US, rather than the American continents. A simple change to "Template:US mobile phone companies" would fix that, but it also means ploughing through all the pages that use this template, so before moving/renaming, I wanted to verify there is a consensus supporting this change first.
Any thoughts? --Squiggleslash 14:02, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Support - American is ambiguous, especially among non-English speakers. US is not. The Evil Spartan 19:06, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Discussion of Claro and Puerto Rico (was Requested move)
América Móvil currently treats the Puerto Rican Claro unit as a separate unit from it's United States operations, especially if you read through their Quarterly reports. I do understand that Puerto Rico is a territory of the United States, but América Móvil doesn't treat their Puerto Rican unit as competitive to any other US carriers, just the Puerto Rican carriers, (which for the most part are carriers that have US operations also.) I feel that until América Móvil renames Tracfone, their US operation, to Claro, or makes some other attempt to compete in the United States, then Claro should be kept off of this list. -- Rossi27530 12:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- I agree. I don't think being somewhere that's "a territory of" the US is enough for something to be considered operating in the US. So for now Claro needs to be off the list, at least until something called Claro operates somewhere in the 50 states. This is a little off topic, so I'm creatinga new heading for this. --Squiggleslash 14:12, 19 September 2007 (UTC)