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Revision as of 18:10, 28 January 2008

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	India Project‑class
This page is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia Project This page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

Schools in INDIA

I came across List of schools by country and found India page was missing. So I created List of schools in India. Now I need content neatly catagorized by states. I am not sure but 'Category: Education in India' can help a lot in this matter. This is the place I kind of slow down. I can collect lot of content by I don't really know how to create categories. Most cities I monitor had a long list of schools so I had broken the sections into seperate pages. Please suggest how to go forward in the correct way since Im new to wikipedia. Thanks. thevikas (talk) 16:17, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Hindustani navigation box and some attitude

I've created a navigation box on Hindustani(Hindi/Urdu):Hindustani topics.
One user Tuncrypt was saying that it is "unwarranted" and "he will get it deleted".
I would like to say that I am not a new user but have contributed something for the first time. Before this I used to post on the talk pages of articles but nobody replied ever. Now when I have created something very petty, one guy comes up and says that it is nonsensical and he will have it deleted. This kind of attitude is going to detract new users like myself and discourage us from ever contributing again. You can have a look at his comments on my talk page and my replies on his talk page.
Please comment either on this issue or give any views related to the box and how it can be made betterMaquahuitl (talk) 19:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I had a look at the discussion on both pages and I agree that Tuncrypt seems to be going rather hot-headed about it. I personally don't have a problem with the template so long as it is appended only to appropriate articles. I'm afraid I'm ill-equipped to delve into the details of this matter. You may wish to bring this to the attention of an experienced editor/administrator (such as Ganeshk, Bhadani, Dwaipayanc, etc), or alternately at WP:VPP or WP:VPM. Ekantik 22:24, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

As far as I can see, Tuncrypt's arguments are based on original research. There is even a wiki-article on Hindustani, so if the article exists, the concept certain exists. If there are several articles dealing with the same subject, there is no reason why a template cannot be created to connect all of them. Your template appears to do that pretty well so there is no reason why it should be deleted as per Misplaced Pages policies. This template helps Misplaced Pages and should not be deleted. However, I would suggest that the template be renamed to something more appropriate. See Category:Language navigational boxes to get an idea of conventions. Ekantik 22:30, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Original research? That's a pretty grave accusation, possibly requiring explanation. But anyway, your saying "There is even a wiki-article on Hindustani, so if the article exists, the concept certain exists" doesn't really mean anything as I did not object to the concept of Hindustani at all, but rather to its use as template header for all topics Hindi and Urdu, and the definitional implications that flow from such a usage. Read my two posts here and here. I mean, I really don't know what more to say. My points seem to me clear and entirely conclusive on this matter. But restating those points, with some further explanation as well:

1. Popular currency of the term. While used throughout the British administration, the term lost ground and become defunct in matters of self-identification basically after the administration's departure, in the wake of the divergent and developmental forces behind Urdu and Hindi. People now identify themselves as speakers of one or the other on census documents, not Hindustani. Misplaced Pages should not artificially propound a term beyond that of its ground realities.
2. Scholastic currency of the term. Books, reviews, articles, papers, etc. are written about the "Hindi" and "Urdu" languages, not the "Hindustani language". As I've said, the term Hindustani will garner a sentence or two in these articles about Hindi and Urdu, noting it as a colloquial go-between, spoken lingua franca, etc. between the two. In the rare cases of books, etc. being written under the direct topic of Hindustani, they are of older times; again, cf. my first point.
3. The definitional instability of the term. There is a problem of confusion regarding the term's use, with two different senses being accorded to it. The first sense has it as another name of "Khari Boli", which itself is clear in its definition. It is a dialect, a grammatical framework and basis, and Modern Standard Hindi and Urdu are standardized registers of it. If anything, it'd make for a better template than "Hindustani" because of the accuracy/clarity surrounding it (unlike Hindustani, which is what I'm discussing currently in this point #3). But either way, it's still unwarranted because like Hindustani it lacks appropriate popular currency (point #1), lacks scholastic naming currency (#2), and encounters the complications surrounding the term Hindi (to be covered later on in this point #3) which'd be subsumed under it. Anyway, getting back to Hindustani, the second and more contemporary sense accorded to it is that of a shared/colloquial/neutral/spoken vocabulary/go-between/lingua franca/segment between the entities of Hindi and Urdu. The final, previously mentioned irreconcilable obstacle, which I will include under this bullet, is that of the definitional complications relating to the term "Hindi", which of course is subordinated under Hindustani in this template. It has the senses of 1) Modern Standard Hindi (Khari Boli) and 2) broad-based, all-encompassing Hindi (Modern Standard Hindi, Urdu, and non-Khari Boli dialects; Hariyanvi, Kannauji, etc.). That Urdu and (MS) Hindi have classificational primacy over Hindustani is what I've been arguing all along; as for the all-compassing sense of Hindi in tow, it becomes obviously the case.

So finally it should be made clear that it's just this template that I'm against, and not at all templates and their organizational qualities in general. I think that templates'd be useful and suitable for this general topic. My proposition is to have separate templates for Hindi and Urdu. They'd correctly, as per definition, converge on links to pages for grammar, phonology, Hindustani, and Khari Boli, and diverge on links to pages for script, literature, and history. Further individual expansions would be Dakkhini for Urdu, and Awadhi, Braj, etc. for Hindi (allowing a unfettered and accurate explication of its aforementioned broader sense). Thus I've already outlined the bases of two prospective templates, presenting their differences, nuances, characteristics.

If desired and hopefully quickly understood and agreed upon, this change or compromise could be implemented immediately. It could also wait, considering the poor state of much of what falls under the Hindi and Urdu domain or pages, but whatever. The improvement and development of these pages is certainly within my interest and desire. To my point out my commitment to the general cause of Indo-Aryan language pages, I present my contributions: Gujarati language, Gujarati grammar, Gujarati script, Gujarati phonology, and Hindi-Urdu grammar, on all of which I have created 99-100% of what you see there. I'm especially proud of the latter, Hindi-Urdu, as it was a complete and utter rewrite, vastly improving and completing the page, and raising the number of direct sourcings from 0 to 53 (actually 70, if you count instances). Also, I've initiated a rewrite of Hindi-Urdu phonology, where I've written 90% of what's there, with others helping me with formatting. Lastly, I've opened up a new section on the long inactive Indo-Aryan languages page. So I care, very much so. Tuncrypt (talk) 08:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

By the way, this literally took me three hours to write. lolz Tuncrypt (talk) 08:57, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

On a related note, before I hit the sack, could such a template please be made for the Gujarati language? Thanks. Tuncrypt (talk) 09:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

You know, when I think about the concluding proposal I eventually reached, it's too bad I didn't just go and edit the Hindustani template into Hindi and Urdu ones in the first place, and saved myself all this back-and-forth. Tuncrypt (talk) 19:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

So just now I just went and made the changes to the template, making it a Hindi one: Template:Hindi_topics (another Urdu one'll have to be created). If you look at it, you'll see that it's quite different from any possible Urdu template that'd be made, as I've noted previously. Hopefully everything I've said is understood and this issue can be concluded, and we can enjoy our templates. Tuncrypt (talk) 19:29, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I recently made a reply to user:Anupam's post here. Just linking it. Tuncrypt (talk) 20:29, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

There, three new templates I have fashioned —

Tuncrypt (talk) 20:42, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I have some issues with these three boxes- will post more tomorrow. Good night everyone. Maquahuitl (talk) 21:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

As opposed to what? The Hindustani box you made, which was totally wrong? And why in the world do you say three boxes? The Gujarati box is a Gujarati box, another thing altogether, which I felt like making just now, being a completely different language from Hindi-Urdu-Hindustani. Honestly, do you even know that? Tuncrypt (talk) 21:56, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Castes

I've been looking over some of the caste articles (particularly beginning with Nadar (caste)) and there seem to be a huge amount of them - and they are all largely unsourced and POV. Has this project formed any plans for a sweep of these articles at some point? 19:03, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Slightly off topic: MediaWiki localisation for languages from India

I am writing to you to promote a special wiki called Betawiki. This wiki facilitates the localisation (l10n) of the MediaWiki interface. You may have sometimes changed messages to use your language in the interface, but if you would log in to for example the Japanese language Wiktionary, or Wikimedia Commons, you would not be able benifit from those efforts. Betawiki also supports the translation of messages for 126 extensions, with 2,174 messages. Translators for over 90 languages contribute their work to MediaWiki this way every month.

If you wish to contribute to better support of your language in MediaWiki, as well as for many MediaWiki extensions, please visit Betawiki, create an account and request translator privileges. You can see the current status of localisation of your language on MediaWiki.org and do not forget to get in touch with others that may already be working on your language on Betawiki.

We currently have a language project that gives incentives up to EUR 200 (~$293) for localising particular languages. 13 languages spoken in India are eligible for the bounties. If you have any further questions, please let me know on my talk page on Betawiki. We will try and assist you as much as possible, for example by importing all messages from a local wiki for you to start with, if you so desire.

You can also find us on the Freenode IRC network in the channel #mediawiki-i18n where we would be happy to help you get started.

Thank you very much for your attention, and I do hope to see some of you on Betawiki soon! Cheers! Siebrand (talk) 23:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC) (Siebrand@Betawiki)

Are these two new articles keepers?

Two new articles reference Hindi sources:

• Brhmaand Pujan
• Naresh Sonee Sohum Sutra

They were recently deleted:

• Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Brhmaand Pujan
• Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Naresh Sonee

Should they be kept?

The article's author seems new and may need some coaching. Unfortunately, I am totally unfamiliar with Hindi, philosophy or spiritualism. --A. B. 00:22, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Ignore the issue for a while.As such it was both poorly prepared article and case of over-policing by en wikipedians as usual.

India has got ageold traditions of people claiming themselves to be godmans and they do get followers out of such followers some follower may turn to wikipedia.If we deside to take note of all Gurus and and Godmans and their individual scriptures we do need indipendant wiki some thing like WikiGuru.And frankly WikiGuru will do better to Misplaced Pages in popularity.

Mahitgar (talk) 10:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Subhas Chandra Bose

Hi there,

Somebody inserted British Flag next to his birth country, India. I don't agree with this and I am sure everybody will do the same.

There are number of pages on the Misplaced Pages for number of prominent people, which do not have any such flags, particularly the flags of the countries which occupied/ruled at that time.

Manay Thanks Jagan kommareddy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.213.138 (talk) 14:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I have removed the links to flags: Taking a cue from this page. --Bhadani (talk) 19:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

If Misplaced Pages follows this tradition of displaying the flags of country of birth depending on the the-then rulers than probably most of the current Prime Ministers and Presidents of European countries will have the Nazi flags decorating their pages on Misplaced Pages! --Bhadani (talk) 19:11, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure that war time occupation of European countries by Nazi Germany falls in the same category as a country and its administration during the colonial era. Aside from the fact that India today is historically and politically different from British India. I dont have a problem with the flag not being shown, but do have a problem with the pages on Bose and INA becoming a battleground for PoV pushing Colonialists and nationalists. Facts are facts and that's the way it should be on an encyclopaedia. I have nearly single handedly build the entire Content on the Indian National Army (see {{Azad Hind Fauj}}), and am bored and tired of colonial as well as nationalist half-truths and pseudo-intellectuals pushing to have their long-disproved and now-downright-ridiculed theories in these pages. Do pardon me if I seem a bit overactive in these pages. I assure you it is in the best intentions and interests. rueben_lys (talk · contribs) 21:38, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

My reply. --Bhadani (talk) 18:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Project-Class India pages
• NA-importance India pages
• Project-Class India articles of NA-importance
• WikiProject India articles