| Revision as of 01:49, 14 January 2008 editWhatamIdoing (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers121,941 edits I am a calm and patient person. →(Repeat until desired effect is achieved.)← Previous edit | Revision as of 17:38, 8 February 2008 edit undoGordonofcartoon (talk | contribs)7,228 edits →[]?Next edit → | ||
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| I'd like to point out as well that this article is on my daily watchlist, and I suspect that it's on several other editors' lists for the same reason. I think you can rely on me promptly noticing future attempts to use this article to promote your theory. (I do appreciate your other efforts, but you need to quit adding your own research theories to this article.) ] (]) 01:49, 14 January 2008 (UTC) | I'd like to point out as well that this article is on my daily watchlist, and I suspect that it's on several other editors' lists for the same reason. I think you can rely on me promptly noticing future attempts to use this article to promote your theory. (I do appreciate your other efforts, but you need to quit adding your own research theories to this article.) ] (]) 01:49, 14 January 2008 (UTC) | ||
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| I'm not comfortable with the current development of the article. While the explicit Banfield material has been removed, it seems to me that the citations and case material added since have a distinct focus on chest compression, breathing, the diaphragm etc, that smells of ] slanting the whole picture toward the Banfield theory. ] (]) 17:38, 8 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
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Remade
Remade the article - No copyright material this time.
Banfield
The section on "posture" isn't working for me. Nobody outside of the The theory looks like it was created by a non-medical person who is trying to reinvent the wheel -- the "wheel" being garden variety orthostatic intolerance and hyperventilation syndrome. I'd like to remove the last few paragraphs of the "History" section, beginning from the words "From 1982-1983..." Does anyone here -- that is, anyone here except Banfield, who has a clear conflict of interest in judging the merits and notability of his own work -- object? WhatamIdoing 01:08, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
- No objection here. Nothing I can find in real medical literature sugests it merits such undue space, and I agree about the COI of his expounding anything to do with his own theory in this article. I've posted a note to that effect at User talk:Posturewriter; if necessary, it can go to WP:COI/N. Gordonofcartoon (talk) 02:16, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree with occupying undue space and will be happy to abbreviate my theory to one paragraph of plain text if required. I was attempting to highlight the distinguishing symptoms and the multiple factors relating to chest compression.
However please consider the following; When I first looked at the Da Costa’s syndrome page I found that it was started on 15th May 06, and after 18 months there were only 11 contributions from 5 authors who provided only four lines of text, 8 links and no references, with a wikipedia note requesting help to expand the article. Since I made my first entry only 14 days ago, 75 lines of text in six subdivisions have been added with contributions from 50 additional edits, 18 by myself, and 32 by 5 additional authors, and I have outlined the history of the subject with 6 impeccable references, and other editors have contributed an additional 7 references, and there are now 20 additional links from several authors. Please also consider that Da Costa’s syndrome is a distinct entity in so far as “it is because these symptoms and signs are largely, and sometimes wholly, the exaggerated physiological responses to exercise . . . that I term the whole ‘the effort syndrome’ “ (T.Lewis 1919) since referred to as a synonym for the ailment. With regard to orthostatic intolerance the triggers for symptoms appear to be different and there is no mention of chest pains, particularly, and, most commonly in the left inframammary area. That pain is a defining essential in Da Costa Syndrome history, and dysautonomia doesn’t account for it’s location, or why most ot the pains are asymmetric. However I have suggested how persistent postural compression of the chest produces all of the symptoms of Da Costa’s syndrome, including chronic orthostatic hypotension, and intolerance, in relation to faintness and fatigue.
In regard to the hyperventilation syndrome the set of symptoms is similar but different, and the cause is excess oxygen consumption and “Most cases are caused by anxiety or stress”, whereas in Da Costa’s syndrome the cause is low oxygen consumption, hypoventilation, during exhausting work such as running. As you may appreciate it has been quite difficult to make these distinctions when so many similar symptoms and syndromes overlap. I respect the observations of Da Costa, and the principles of wikipedia, and appreciate your need for authoritative references, which is why I have used them in constructing and evaluating my ideas, and provided them for consideration. posturewriter —Preceding unsigned comment added by Posturewriter (talk • contribs) 07:27, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
- Max, I apologize if my previous comments weren't clear. I don't want your made-up theory shortened; I want it removed entirely from this article. Misplaced Pages is not a reasonable place for promoting our pet theories. When a physician's group or a peer-reviewed scientific journal publishes your theory, then I'd be happy to include it. So far, however, the medical communities response has basically been resounding indifference, with a side order of rude remarks about your ignorance, and that means that your pet theory is not notable enough to justify even half a sentence on Misplaced Pages. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:42, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
- I agree, and am removing it. And we also generally need to summarise the 'case history' material (the "35% had symptoms, 38.3% had mild disability, and 15% had severe disability" kind of thing). This is an encyclopedia article for general readership, not a med journal literature surrvey.
- I've also posted it to WP:COI/N. Gordonofcartoon (talk) 01:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
WhatamIdoing, thank you for your courtesy. I understand that wikipedia verification policy allows a person to present a reasonably arranged set of facts, so long as each of them can be independently verified from multiple quality sources, and in some cases the contributor needs to provide exceptional sources of the highest quality, for the editors to consider. I have therefore added to the after 1950 history section with an extract from an exemplary source : The reference details are: Paul Wood, O.B.E. (revised edition 1956) Diseases of the Heart and Circulation, Eyre & Spottiswoode, London p.937-947 . . . Paul Wood, O.B.E., was Director, Institute of Cardiology, London. Regarding the research relating to the fitness programme at the SA Fitness Institute, the training programme was designed on the basis that the volunteers would participate in a programme if they were able to stay within their limits and improve at their own rate. That study verifiably predates the modern methods of treating CFS which include G.E.T. (graduated exercise training), and pacing, which I would like you to consider in relation to notability. Posturewriter (talk)posturewriter —Preceding comment was added at 01:56, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- I understand that wikipedia verification policy allows a person to present a reasonably arranged set of facts, so long as each of them can be independently verified from multiple quality sources
- No. Only if the picture presented by that arrangement is generally agreed not to be a novel interpretation of those facts. Otherwise, it amounts to WP:SYNTH - "Synthesis of published material serving to advance a position". Gordonofcartoon (talk) 12:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Gordonofcartoon, I appreciate your comments and have amended the history 1982-2007 accordingly. The concept of training within limits may have been novel in the 1982 IFRT programme but it is now common practice in "pacing", which has been favorably reviewed in appropriate medical journals, and I have added a scanned copy of one of the newspaper article jpegs to my website ref.16 for verification of the project. Please also note the difference between DaCosta's exertion related symptoms and those of other types of CFS, re; your 'to do' list - Charles Wooley's Diseases of Yesteryear, Circulation, May 1976 p.749, para.2 Posturewriter (talk) posturewriter —Preceding comment was added at 00:31, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to go read WP:CIVIL now
Posturewriter, did you "forget" that promoting your own non-notable research ideas constitutes a conflict of interest, or were you just hoping that no one would notice when you added all that information again? The guideline is that a theory needs to have "received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." Until you can produce '"significant" coverage in "reliable" and "independent" sources, your pet theory is not notable enough to justify any space at all in this article.
I'd like to point out as well that this article is on my daily watchlist, and I suspect that it's on several other editors' lists for the same reason. I think you can rely on me promptly noticing future attempts to use this article to promote your theory. (I do appreciate your other efforts, but you need to quit adding your own research theories to this article.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:49, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
WP:SYNTH?
I'm not comfortable with the current development of the article. While the explicit Banfield material has been removed, it seems to me that the citations and case material added since have a distinct focus on chest compression, breathing, the diaphragm etc, that smells of WP:SYNTH slanting the whole picture toward the Banfield theory. Gordonofcartoon (talk) 17:38, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
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