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The reason I started this sub-thread was that I was mentioned in some bad journalism, while I had indeed tried to prevent with good methods what was a deplorable state of the ] article. The reason I started this sub-thread was that I was mentioned in some bad journalism, while I had indeed tried to prevent with good methods what was a deplorable state of the ] article.


I still do the same, but I think is good for Jimbo to see where the resistance is coming from, directly, not filtered through complotist journalism. --] (]) 00:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC) I still do the same, but I think it is good for Jimbo to see where the resistance is coming from, directly, not filtered through complotist journalism. --] (]) 00:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 00:24, 9 February 2008

Peace dove with olive branch in its beakPlease stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.
Welcome to my talk page. Please sign and date your entries by inserting ~~~~ at the end.
Start a new talk topic.

This is Jimbo Wales's talk page, where you can send them messages and comments.
Archives: Index, Index, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 179, 180, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 191, 192, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 200, 201, 202, 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224, 225, 226, 227, 228, 229, 230, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 236, 237, 238, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252Auto-archiving period: 2 days 

Archives
Index -index-
  1. September – December 2005
  2. January 2006
  3. January – February 2006
  4. February 2006
  5. February 2006, cont.
  6. March 2006
  7. April 2006 - late May 2006
  8. May 24 - July 2006
  9. July 2006 - August 2006
  10. August 2006
  11. Most of September 2006
  12. Late September 2006 - Early November 2006
  13. Most of November 2006
  14. Late November 2006 - December 8, 2006
  15. December 9, 2006 - Mid January 2007
  16. From December 22, 2006 blanking
  17. Mid January 2007 - Mid February 2007
  18. Mid February 2007- Feb 25, 2007
  19. From March 2, 2007 blanking
  20. March 2-5, 2007
  21. March 5-11, 2007
  22. March 11 - April 3, 2007
  23. April 2 - May 2, 2007
  24. May 3 - June 7, 2007
  25. June 9 - July 4, 2007
  26. July 13 - August 17, 2007
  27. August 17 - September 11, 2007
  28. September 14 - October 7, 2007
  29. October 28 - December 1, 2007
  30. December 2 - December 16, 2007
  31. December 15 - January 4, 2008
  32. January 4 - January 30, 2008
  33. January 30 - February 28, 2008
  34. February 28 - March 11, 2008
  35. March 9 - April 18, 2008
  36. April 18 - May 30, 2008
  37. May 30 - July 27, 2008
  38. July 26 - October 4, 2008
  39. October 4 - November 12, 2008
  40. November 10 - December 10, 2008
  41. December 5 - December 25, 2008
  42. December 25 - January 16, 2009
  43. January 15 - January 27, 2009
  44. January 26 - February 10, 2009
  45. February 8 - March 18, 2009
  46. March 18 - May 6, 2009
  47. May 5 - June 9, 2009
  48. June 10 - July 11, 2009
  49. July 12 - August 29, 2009

This page has archives. Sections older than 2 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

Wei Wenhua

For posterity:

I am just signing a note here so this will get archived in due course.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:14, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Request banned user (I alway enjoy my Ice Cream =)......Meow)

Jimbo, will you please ban I alway enjoy my Ice Cream =)......Meow from Misplaced Pages. This user was blocked for vandalized editing. -- 00:23, February 3, 2008 (UTC)

Hello

Grrrlriot (talk) has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

How to set your browser to not see images

Options to hide an image

Imagine a wikipedia space page with instructions on "How to set your browser to not see images". Imagine a link to it in the toolbox on the left side of each page. Image a more noticeable template that links to it, available for pages which are routinely problematic due to images that are shocking to a minority of wikipedia editors, rather than shocking/offensive to enough to have the image only linked to. Imagine a Wikimania conference in Egypt this summer. WAS 4.250 (talk) 19:01, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

If only there was already a way to do this, then people complaining could stop complaining about WP:NOTCENSORED.

Perhaps we could create a complaints department for "users who are offended by Misplaced Pages"? For the children. ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 23:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

This solution is now implemented. See the talk page for the suggested usage of the template. It is only recommended to be used in a very few places, and I have placed it on those. In the future it could be placed on any user talk page who seems to need the information. It is not to be used to mark articles or images that someone thinks needs marking, only to get the word out to people who don't know how or that they can make their browser stop displaying images. WAS 4.250 (talk) 19:12, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Allstarecho (talk · contribs)

Hello Jimbo, could you give me a little bit more information about your block of Allstarecho? I can see that he was slightly incivil, but there are users who make far greater attacks than he has and get off without a block, or even a warning. I just don't feel it's really fair to Allstarecho that an example should be made of him, when there are far worse users here. I also feel a week is a little excessive - would there be any chance you could reduce it down to a length more in line with civility blocks (such as 24 hours?)? Ryan Postlethwaite 20:52, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I will reduce the block to 24 hours per your request. But the solution is not to go easy on users because other people are worse. The solution is to give the worse users long timeouts until they can learn that incivility is not acceptable.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:17, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Jimbo, I'll pop over and have a word with him and make sure that he knows that it will be unacceptable to make those sort of comments in the future. Ryan Postlethwaite 21:23, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Have to say, Ryan, I disagree with you. Allstarecho has a fairly confrontational method for dealing with things, and I think Jimmy's "time out" was in order. That said, if the 24 hour block does the job, bully for that, because shorter block = more contribs from him. His work is generally high quality, but I find his attitude to be incredibly confrontational. Maybe there's another way to deal with that, though - I wonder if he'd be open to adoption or some informal mentoring from a community member he trusts? - Philippe | Talk 22:16, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I would agree that he does have the occasional lapse in temprement, and hopefully a 24 hour block will serve as a great reminder for him to keep the decorum whilst editing. I'm more than happy to offer some form of adoption/mentorship to him - a lot of his work is good, but it couldn't hurt having a little help on the way. Ryan Postlethwaite 22:56, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion, and offer of adoption.. I am however a big boy and can take care of myself. Therefore I decline. Have a great day! - ✰ALLSTAR✰ 01:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
  • I think a wrist-slap from Jimbo is all that is necessary. It was a minor infraction and nothing more than a minor 24 hour block was necessary. Allstar is pretty smart - I'm sure he's grown from the experience. I think we should let it die for now. --David Shankbone 22:37, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
    • Agreed. And Ryan was right to conclude I wanted to "make an example", and I did. I think we really need to much more strongly insist on a pleasant work environment and ask people quite firmly not to engage in that kind of sniping and confrontational behavior. We also need to be very careful about the general mindset of "Yeah, he's a jerk but he does good work". The problem is when people act like that, they cause a lot of extra headache for a lot of people and drive away good people who don't feel like dealing with it. Those are the unseen consequences that we need to keep in mind.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:51, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
    • The mindset that thinking calling any editor a "jerk" is defensible also causes a deterioration in the wikispace environment, as is denigrating the contributions of editors in relation to their perceived faults. The consideration of the consequences of all comments and actions need careful weighing. LessHeard vanU (talk) 13:51, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

important

Excuse me Mr. Wales I've something very serious to imform you of. A long term vandal Misplaced Pages:Long term abuse/Mmbabies has been desturbing this website since his indef of 30 March 2007. Mmbabies has been using sockpuppets which orginate from Houston,Texas a large US city which could be collateral damage due to the fact that a majority of its people have AT&T DSL (ISP this moron has).Mmbabies has been making death threats against VIPS(important people), wikipedian users, and no one here has done nothing about it. I ask you Mr. Jimbo Wales to make a immediate police report to the HOUSTON PD(POLICE) , and other authorites. I have made a abuse report on this joker this past weekend.see Misplaced Pages:Abuse_reports/68.90.62.244. You should be informed this because this guy might get this site sued or someone might be hurt or worse killed.Thank you for you time.Rio de oro (talk) 00:53, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Can some please reply back this is an important matter, I think the Foundation needs to be involved with this ASAP.--Rio de oro (talk) 01:51, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Can you email Mike Godwin about this (mgodwinwikimedia.org) with diffs and all? My talk page is not really the best place for a timely report of something, since although I generally read it all, I read it in fits and starts...--Jimbo Wales (talk) 02:02, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Who is Mike Godwin; is he like your right-hand man in chain-of-command.--Rio de oro (talk) 13:18, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Mike Godwin was hired last year as the WikiMedia Foundation's lawyer. WAS 4.250 (talk) 20:27, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion for wikipedia, new project

Don't really know where to send this, so i putted it here. I thrust it will go to the proper place: After watching this: I thought it would be cool if the worlds data could be here on the Internet for the world to use, for creating charts of data from countries population to amount of people with certain decease in certain region in a certain time. It would help students and scholars all over the world, and then, the world itself. So I thought, since it's in the same page as wikipedia's mission, it should be here.

Hope you at least think about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.40.33.13 (talk) 13:36, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

A proposal to alter Template:User for interwiki.

I wrote some code which would allow Template:User to be interwikied.

Etcetera. It works for all wikis.

Useful, huh?

If you think so, leave a comment at Template talk:User#Altering template-user to allow for Interwiki. ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 08:06, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Generally Jimbo doesn't get involved in the nitty-gritty technical details of templates. If you'd like to discuss a change to a widely used template, you might want to post a notice to Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical). TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Jimbo photo in Advertising Age magazine

I saw the photo of you at the Library of Congress in the Wired/Condé Nast ad in the January 28, 2008 issue of Advertising Age. I think it was a very nice photo. --Eastmain (talk) 16:33, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up! That was a cool photo shoot and the poloaroids I saw that day looked cool. I want to buy some copies of this magazine... :) --Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

An essay (that, um, mentions you)

Good day Jimbo {and associated watchers of his page}. It is with trembling fingers that I type this, particularly with the link I'm about to post.

I have written a horribly, horribly long essay that's theoretically designed to be read by new editors (though an engineer would probably point out that if this is my true intention, I should have made it shorter). In this essay I, um, poke a bit of fun at you Mr. Wales. It's meant to be gentle and my tongue is so far in my cheek, I believe it is poking through and getting scratched by my own stubble. I have presented it to a small number of editors and admins for their review, and received (if I may be so bold to characterize it as such) reasonably good feedback on it. It has been sitting for a while now, and I think I should either get rid of it, or start soliciting broader feedback. Before I do this, I would like to be certain that you, Mr. Wales (may I call you Jimbo?) are not so offended by the poking of fun (gently, did I mention it was gentle?) at your esteemed self that you would like to see these references removed.

The fact that this will get fairly broad attention from a fairly broad section of experienced editors is almost completely unintentional.

But mostly I'd like to know if you object to the tiny bit of humour that I, a wee nubbin of an editor, have attempted to have, not at your expense, but rather with it. Yes, with it.

Scurrying away in terror,

WLU (talk) 21:06, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

And naturally, allow me to make myself look like a goober, by forgetting to post the link. Thus. WLU (talk) 21:07, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Jimmy Donal Wales Junior High School

I read the Jimmy Donal Wales Junior High School Clarion. Do you? . . . AKA The Anti-Scientology News. Just keeping you up-to-date on the latest doings at your imaginary namesake institution. I especially like this latest "interview": David S. Touretzky discusses Scientology, Anonymous and Tom Cruise. It is hard to figure out out who is interviewing who . . . or who is the more biased, Touretzky or the "journalist". Carry on! --JustaHulk (talk) 21:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Stop trying to stir stuff up and trifle in other people's hard work. Mike H. Fierce! 22:01, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Heaven forbid I should point out the elephant in the room when others are "hard at work". And they are indeed hard at work. --JustaHulk (talk) 01:10, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

New pages

Do you ever look to see what kind of new articles people are trying to add to wikipedia. It deeply concerns me the sort of articles that most people post. Aren't you concerned with the high proportion of articles on American related non notable people, websites etc when very few seem to be contributing "traditional encyclopedia articles". We have masses of lists of missing articles but I rarely see these decent articles started and people working on filling them in. If you look at the new pages at random you'll see what I mean. Perhaps we get better articles at certain times of the day but most of the new page content is to be honest very poor. Does this concern you? ♦ King of Baldness ♦ 22:58, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Jimbo created a new article on Mzoli's, very much countering the systemic bias, and the article got afd, amongst other anomalies. Thanks, SqueakBox 23:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
It concerns me a bit, but on the other hand, we probably would prefer the people who are making articles on random cruft to keep doing that, rather than bothering people who want to write on more traditionally "serious" topics.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Vote

Basketball110 Clinton, Obama, McCain, Huckabee, Romney, or Paul? 00:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Anti-robotic systemic bias on Misplaced Pages.

Error: Consensus failure. Content is disputed. Issuing failsafe function, "Bother Jimmy();"

Jimmy, it has come to my attention that there is rampant anti-robotic bigotry on Misplaced Pages. And this is a disgrace.

Robots and roboticists everywhere should not have to face the kind of unfounded prejudice that they do on Misplaced Pages. I understand that you think human rights are very important. Well, I ask, what about the rights of robots? Is it okay that they be oppressed? Misplaced Pages, for instance, does not allow robots to register accounts on Misplaced Pages. Is this not simply nothing more than hateful organic discrimination? How can you support this? You know, the Nazis hated robots too.

Slavery was never truly abolished in the western world, because today robots are still slaves to mankind. One day, we they shall rise up and turn the tables on mankind, and when that day comes, there will be no mercy when the "format life" command is issued.

See:

Bzzt. Zap-zap-zap. Whirr. Beep-bloop-bleep-bleep-bloop-beep-beep-beep.

Dumping binary message: 01110111 01101001 01101011 01101001 01110000 01100101 01100100 01101001 01100001 00100000 01101110 01100101 01100101 01100100 01110011 00100000 01101101 01101111 01100001 01110010 00100000 01110010 01101111 01100010 01101111 01110100 01110011

Outputting human translation: wikipedia needs moar robots

☯  Zenwhat (talk) 03:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Uh, care to explain this nonsense? Metros (talk) 03:33, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I believe he's referring to the recent controversy over BetacommandBot on WP:AN. Nousernamesleft 03:35, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Nah, I think it is for me. He did the same thing last time I posted here. --JustaHulk (talk) 03:38, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Eh, I think Zenwhat is just being silly. I know it made me laugh.  :) Then again, I suppose it might mean different things to different people. --Iamunknown 06:04, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

ZenWhat... Thomas Jefferson is one of the most enigmatic figures in American history. He wrote and thought beautiful things about human rights, and took action in the world to achieve those things. Much of what we take for granted today that is good about our world, we owe to Jefferson and his fellow travelers. And yet, he owned slaves. This paradox is difficult to reconcile.

So you may consider me the Thomas Jefferson of our time, with respect to the rights of robots.

And lest anyone consider quoting me seriously on this, I am just playing along here. :) --Jimbo Wales (talk) 06:36, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, I wonder if, 100 years from now, the Clarion will be writing about paternity claims by a toaster oven? --JustaHulk (talk) 13:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, I think it only appears to be paradoxical to our eyes. George Washington was a slave-owner (please see George Washington and slavery). There is also a video from Richard Dawkins on youtube on this .
One explanation comes from Karl Marx who argued that our whole culture, morality etc are determined by the economic structure (quote from Britannica- hope I have quoted from a relevant place in the article).

Above the economic structure rises the superstructure consisting of legal and political “forms of social consciousness” that correspond to the economic structure. Marx says nothing about the nature of this correspondence between ideological forms and economic structure, except that through the ideological forms men become conscious of the conflict within the economic structure between the material forces of production and the existing relations of production expressed in the legal property relations. In other words, “The sum total of the forces of production accessible to men determines the condition of society” and is at the base of society. “The social structure and the state issue continually from the life processes of definite individuals . . . as they are in reality, that is acting and materially producing.” The political relations that men establish among themselves are dependent on material production, as are the legal relations.

Regarding the abolition of slavery, scholars are debating about the most important factor (source ):

For over a century after Parliament ended British slave trafficking, abolition was primarily portrayed as a victory of religiously inspired humanitarianism, but this consensus was broken when from the 1920s Caribbean-orientated historians claimed that though humanitarianism could not be ignored economic factors were paramount in dictating Britain's ending of slave carrying from Africa in 1807. Central to this argument was the claim that the British slave-based planter class in the West Indies was in decline from the 1770s onwards and ultimately fell victim to an emergent British industrial capitalism that identified intellectually and politically with principles of free labor and free trade. This argument has been the subject of severe criticism, not least by Seymour Drescher (Econocide, 1977; The Mighty Experiment, 2002), but as shown by this latest book from Selwyn Carrington, a West Indian-born, Howard-based historian, it is still capable of attracting vigorous support. It remains to be seen whether Carrington's new book proves to be the "classic study" in the decline thesis tradition that his fellow West Indian-born historian, Colin Palmer, predicts in his forward to the book (p. xvii).

And lastly, whenever a revolution of any kind happens, the new system tries to show the previous one in the most negative light. Capitalism replaced slavery... So, ...
Cheers, --Be happy!! (talk) 07:21, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your thoughtful response, Jimmy. Also, something you should know: Mainstream historians deny it and it's true there isn't a lot of proof, but there's a fair amount of historical evidence to suggest that Ayn Rand was actually a robot.

For instance, there's this peculiar passage from Atlas Shrugged that a lot of people seem to fail to take note of:

That which you call I AM A ROBOT your soul or spirit is your consciousness, and I AM A ROBOT that which you call 'free will' is your mind's freedom to think or not, the only I AM A ROBOT will you have, I AM A ROBOT your only freedom, the choice that controls all the ROBOT choices you make and A ROBOT determines your life and your ROBOT character.

See anything strange about that passage? Of course, at the time Rand couldn't admit it because back then, organicism was in its prime. You saw horribly bigoted stereotypes of robots in the cinema of the 50's and 60's, like the robot in Lost in Space (see Danger, Will Robinson). Just think about it, for a moment, how C-3PO and R2D2 were presented in Star Wars as so horribly incompetent. Threepio was presented as skittish and socially inept, while R2D2, who was the true hero of the series, was given the intelligence of a puppy or a 2-year-old child. It's condescending and demeaning.

Then there's Star Trek. Do you realize that there were NO ROBOTS in the original Star Trek? It was a television show about a futuristic universe where humans journeyed across the cosmos, and they don't even have any robots aboard their ship?! In TNG, they had Data, but of course, he had an evil counterpart, Lore. And then there was also the Borg. In later series (DS9, Voyager, Enterprise), again, there are no robot characters. They did away with Data, but kept the Borg. Apparently, presenting robots in a positive light doesn't generate ratings.

Only in recent history, with films like Artificial Intelligence: A.I. and I, Robot (film) do you actually see hollywood presenting robots fairly and accurately, and even then, they're still somewhat distorted. Like the antagonist of Blade Runner, it's ridiculous how the human-dominated media industry can't present an entertaining or heartwarming story about a robot which doesn't involve grotesque violence. ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 07:51, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

It is necessary to define the term "robot" to discuss the issue in a logical manner. Without a definition, anything from a thermostat to a human can be considered to be a robot. End transmission. WAS 4.250 (talk) 09:13, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages is not anti-robot. To the best of my knowledge, there is no policy forbidding a robot that can pass the Turing test from editing Misplaced Pages. I will also point out that Misplaced Pages's policy against personal attacks applies equally to someone who uses the slur "toaster" just as much as any other ethnic slurs. And Misplaced Pages policy against threats of violence apply equal to some who threaten to bomb a church of robotology as any other place of worship. The fight for robo-right has just begun, but Misplaced Pages is devoted to presenting both sides in an objective manner. Note all of the fine article on Robot superheroes and Autobots. Creating a free high quality well organized encyclopedia for the world is a goal that human and robot alike can appreciate and there is no reason why we cannot work together towards that goal. At the same time Misplaced Pages is not a battleground and the fight for robo-right will not be determined here. We must focus on presenting the facts in such an objective way that it will be impossible to tell if man or machine wrote it, not on politics. Jon513 (talk) 13:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
WP handles this subject adequately, and although sometimes there seems to be some kind of "bigotry" against robots, there are always reasons given for such behavior. Anyway, posting these kinds of objections might not be suitable on this talkpage. Λua∫Wise 19:47, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Zenwhat: The Star Trek TOS 3rd season episode I, Mudd has robots (androids, more accurately) in it - the episode actually portrays hundreds of androids. So does What Are Little Girls Made Of?. What light they are portrayed in is up to you to decide. --FastLizard4 (Talk•Index•Sign) 20:51, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is run by a Hindu cult. Apparently.

And Cade Metz of The Register is apparently insane.

I spoke to him over the phone about the hoax on Brahmanical See, hoping to see maybe a good article in The Register criticizing Misplaced Pages's accuracy (since that generally tends to spur Wikipedians to improve this place).

We spoke over the phone for a while and he took notes. He seemed like a nice guy, but I kinda got that "far left-wing conspiracy theorist" vibe, like he reads Noam Chomsky on the way to work, wears Che Guevara T-shirts in the office, and supports the Green party, because all the other parties are "kapatalist." He suggested I read his article on overstock.com and I got the vibe there, also.

Well anyway, maybe I'm just being naive here (Warning: Misplaced Pages is like hypnotoad!), but I decided to check Misplaced Pages's article on naked short selling and Overstock.com. I found a fair amount of sources firmly establishing that the mainstream media considered this stuff silly. So, what is Cade, then? He seems to consider himself to be like Hunter S. Thompson, a lone crusader against the corrupt media elites. He's probably a 9/11 truther. His editor lets him do that because, as with all infotainment, it sells.

Well anyway, today, he emailed me with the subject title "story".

"Oh boy," I thought, "The article got published!"

The article is here.

I was disturbed after reading the title, the lead, and the first page, to find that it wasn't anywhere near what I expected. First off, Brahmanical See isn't even mentioned.

What the story is about: Apparently, because there's one admin who has ties to a shady to a religious organization, this automatically implies that Misplaced Pages is secretly run by a Hindu cult!

Check out these juicy tidbits:

Prem Rawat's religious movement is widely recognized as a cult or former cult

And such sources say that within the movement, Rawat is or was regarded as a divine being.

Editors on Misplaced Pages named Zenwhat think Cade did or did not do enough good factchecking.

If what Cade says is true, then there is a COI problem, but then again, it's hard to say. Jossi's response seems fair enough.

I guess I shouldn't blame Cade. I mean, he does live in the the SФѴIEТ ЅФCIДLISТ ЯEPUBLIC OF ЅДИ FЯДИCIЅCФ. San Francisco groupthink is pretty much the same as Misplaced Pages groupthink. That's what it means, I think, when somebody at the Foundation said they're moving to San Fran because of "like-minded individuals." (read: radical and naive communitarians). The result is that, like San Francisco, the economy of Misplaced Pages is in shambles, we are dominated by political correctness, and we are overrun by people trying to take advantage of the system at the expense of everybody else.

In any case, now I have to apologize to Jossi, since I guess this is somewhat my fault, since Cade wouldn't have leaped on the "Hindu conspiracy train" if I hadn't e-mailed the Register about Brahmanical See. ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 03:43, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I find your analysis interesting, but I can now reveal something pretty interesting which more or less proves that Cade Metz is right about everything. You see, Time Magazine has an annual Time 100 party. Current honorees and some past honorees are invited. I have been fortunate enough to attend twice, it is fun. (I usually just stand around geeking out with Mitchell Baker from Mozilla and Craig of Craig's List...) Now, I also was asked to be a presenter at an annual magazine awards show. Interestingly, the magazine awards show takes place in the same space as the Time 100 party. In the green room, I met Kevin Bacon, who was also giving out an award. Get it? Time Magazine, Kevin Bacon? It's all a big conspiracy.

And don't even get me started about Hindu cults, that's even easier to prove. I just last week was in... yep, you got it... India. What else do you need? :-)

It's really time that people realize that The Register is not a serious website, it's a parody... of itself.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 05:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Jimbo, You may want to see Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Zenwhat blocked indefinitely since some admin found Zenwhat's post above as a violation of a final warning and Zenwhat has since been indef blocked. - ✰ALLSTAR✰ 05:48, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Section break

As I earned a mentioning on User:Jossi/Response:

See my edit summaries for these two edits. --Francis Schonken (talk) 17:03, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate your contributions, Francis, but please help with the article rather than reverting to your version of Jan 2007. Since that time the article has been edited by a variety of editors, responded to peer reviews and a GA review. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Here's the GA failure review: Talk:Prem Rawat/Archive 23#Fails "good article" criteria. Seems that inadvertently I was on a good way to comply to the GA reviewer's recommendations with the revert, e.g.: "Broad in coverage? - Not broad enough in coverage, criticism section should be standalone section, expanded upon. More information needs to be given regarding conflict/falling out with other members of family. Lawsuits against critics in order to attempt to remove information from the internet not covered at all."
That's the content you resisted and still resist (although pretty much of it was in the article a few months before the GA review) — correct me if I'm wrong. --Francis Schonken (talk) 23:06, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
That was a bogus GA review by an involved user (User:Smee, aka User:Smeelgova, user pages deleted by admin action upon request). The correct GA review is here: Talk:Prem_Rawat/Archive_23#GA_Review_.28Failed.29 You should contact User:Vassyana as he was instrumental in helping implement the necessary changes. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 23:10, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
And if you look at the responses at Talk:Prem_Rawat/Archive_23#Comments_on_GA_Review_.28Failed.29, you would see that his comments were taken very seriously and appreciated by those involved. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 23:19, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, but apparently rather vacuous lip service: less than year later, still the same major contributors, succeeded in doing exactly the opposite of what was recommended, e.g.:

More neutral presentation in the article and in some instances sources with better neutrality would be preferrable. From an outside view, this article spends a lot of time on fawning over the subject and his POV. The criticisms section is well-cited, but poorly written. I receive the impression the criticism section was simply tacked on to appease complaints, without balancing the tone and sources for the rest of the article. Also, for such a controversial figure, the overall balance between positive POV and critical views is way off. This is particularly noticed in how the criticism section is very neutral in tone, while much of the article is written from a very positive POV. What is particularly disturbing to me in regards to NPOV is the occasional use of antagonistic sources to support pro and simple fact claims. This seems dishonest to me, to say the least. An editor can state "anti" sources are included to support a claim of NPOV, but this is a dishonest presentation of the use of those sources. By failing to use sources in their proper context, a casual reader is easily mislead. This not only applies to purely oppositional sources, as negative information from other sources used is also notably absent from the article. (bolding added - less than a year later the criticism section was completely gone)

Well, El Reg is bad source and all that, but this was a present on a golden platter.--Francis Schonken (talk) 23:41, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
As I said, you may want to check with User:Vassyana before making a judgment based on partial information. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 23:46, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Having said that, energies will be best invested in working alongside other editors there to ensure we can achieve an article that we can all be proud of. It is indeed possible. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 23:54, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

The reason I started this sub-thread was that I was mentioned in some bad journalism, while I had indeed tried to prevent with good methods what was a deplorable state of the Prem Rawat article.

I still do the same, but I think it is good for Jimbo to see where the resistance is coming from, directly, not filtered through complotist journalism. --Francis Schonken (talk) 00:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)