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Again, welcome! --Jondel 03:01, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

French

Vous parlez francais?(Do you speak French?) 'Cajun' doesn't refer to all Canadians does it? How many humans does your dog own? Sorry about the last one. Did you reach the time when they used latin in Church? BTW if you know any Catholic who is heavy into Yoga, please let me know. --Jondel 07:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Salut John...

Oui, je suis Acadien (cajun)...English is my second language but I am fluently bilingual having worked in French in Quebec (that's sort of French. we call it jwal (a slur/slang of Cheval-horse) lol), and English with the Royal Bank of Canada for many years. I attended primary school in French, High School in English and University in French, then business in English. "Cajun" is a slang for "Acadian" which were french settlers who lived in Acadia (what is now Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, and New-Brunswick) until 1755, when most were deported to Europe, Africa, and Louisianna (after King Louis of France) where they went to live in the swamps with runaway slaves and other "undesireables" and became the "cajuns". Our Family and many Acadians were running from france because of the "protestant" reformation in the Catholic Church. We were "huguenots" or protestants. We moved to Acadia in 1641. One generation later, we were catholics again. Catholic church controlled the birth, marriage, school, hospital, death and afterlife, etc... My forefathers hid in the hills of New brunswick and avoided the "deportation".

My dog, a Great Pyrenae, thinks she owns everyone. They were bred to guard sheep in the mountains of Europe and are called "guardian dogs". Gentle but smart. I live in the country on acreage and my dog will tree a bear if it comes too close. She will not kill it, just tree it or send it away. They are known to let a predator on the property but not let it leave by "attack and retreat" until the predator climbs a tree or just gives up. Very smart. She owns the whole neighbourhood with the neighbour's male, also a Great Pyrenae. They always expand their territory, so they demand that I establish the bounderies (urinating) constantly...LOL

Yes I was a seminarian for 2 years during the latin period of the Catholic Church. That was when Chrisianity "qui laetificat juventutem meam" (was the joy of my youth). I thought after the Christian abuses (sexual, physical, and financial), which I saw and experienced first hand as I became a Banker after leaving the seminary, that I was getting into Raja Yoga with Sahaj Marg. It was sort of that at first but Babuji's death caused me to leave after meeting Chari. Lalaji (a sufi) and Babuji were genuine seekers. Michael is also a practicing Catholic who got into Sahaj Marg for the same reason (the Raja Yoga), and is now again into Catholicism as a "cafeteria" catholic. ie. To do good deeds and not get into the "structure". So he helps out with "inner city" problems in Austin Texas with a catholic priest who does not like the Catholic structure also....

Since I moved to the country, I meet very few people into "spirituality" or "religion" except the Natives (aboriginals)and the New Agers, specially Raja Yoga (mostly loggers and fishermen and retirees who are not into anything) Do you mean Raja, Hatha or other ???....But if I do I will steer them your way....

P.S. see my translation of my "latin" and tell me if you agree with my grammar and choice of word...on the Sahaj Marg site...I sent you a comment with my translation....

Keep on the Sunny Side of Life...

4d-don

Petite

== Petite et accipietis;quaerite et invenietis;pulsate et aperietur vobis ==

Ask and you shall receive, Seek and you shall find, knock and the door shall be opened! Salve! Laudatum tuam mihi amo. Thank you for your complimenht. (I love your praise, literrally). You should visit la.wikipeida.org. I wish (Velim) I had more time to study the language. I saw your reply on latin by the way at the S. M. discussion page. --Jondel 07:40, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Interlingua

Que pensa tu de iste lingua? Es multo facil leger, non? Specialmente si cognosce latin o lingua romantica como spaniol, frances, italiano. Io ama iste lingua et latin etiam. --Jondel 08:09, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Ave Johanes...

Amo latinum. Etiam est multo facile. Etiam. France est ligua romantica. Etiam. Non sum eloquens in latinum. vel...EGO sum non facundus tamen EGO mos perceptum.

salus....Ave...

--don 23:13, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Non sum facundus either, I mean etiam . Neque eloquens. There a lot of amateur latin enthusiasts over at the latin wiki. But I like languages, French, Latin etc. --Jondel 00:11, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Serious Meditation

Sahaj really introduced me to serious meditation. I was planning to join TM. --Jondel 04:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Sahaj Marg was serious Meditation...NOT

Sahaj used to be serious meditation. It is now "obey" the guru and the Structure and empowers what you focus on. Where it was a 16 circles of the material to get to the Divine, it is now the Whispers from the Brighter World which is really "spiritualism" Where is Houdini? To debunk it? LOL I see the abhyasis disempowered, without dreams of their own and their goals become Chari's or the SRCM's goals. That is not serious meditation. Serious meditation is contact with the Spirit, the divine, not Chari or SRCM, those are material things and egoistical people. Just my experience and my opinion.

Peace...Pace nobis Domine...

don.

Please Consider This

Hi Don,

Josh here. I have a question. Are there any more blogs other than the ones that you have listed as being "just a few?" I removed "just a few" from your post when I thought that I had added every single one that there is. If you know of any more, put them on. If you don't, perhaps remove the "just a few." Also, I wonder whether it belongs over the rest of the entries. It is basically a statement saying that this is not the place to discuss Sahaj Marg -- pro or con, and lists ways to discuss it through other avenues. But I find that although you wrote that, you still give opinions of Sahaj Marg on the discussion page. Also, if one were to write the mission to request permission to promote Sahaj Marg (as you have suggested), it would be denied, because it is quite clearly against the mission's constitution, written by Babuji, by which the mission is bound to abide, in order to qualify for its status with the government. So that suggestion is needless, due to these facts. Anyway, I don't think I will change that post again, but I do ask you to please consider these issues. I used to get very upset with your postings, and I still am uncomfortable with some of them, but they do not disturb me so much any more, and I see your perspective more clearly, though I am not any less loyal of an abhyasi. I do think that we are all learning from one another, which is valuable. Peace -- Josh

Considered and changed

Hi Josh..

Thanks for the input...I will change "a few" to "some". It is unfortunate that once someone start "proselytizing" the reaction is to "give opinions" to counter. I will refrain if all refrain....That is the reason for the post in the "Notice Section" of the page...I will keep my opinions in my and other blogs on line...Here I will remain "encyclopedic" and not get into the value of Sahaj Marg as a spiritual discipline. But I will give my opinion on the encyclopedic value, accuracy, verifiability of the information. Hope we don't get more "proselytizers" on this page..

Thanks for your civility this time...(no more "frog" jokes or other racial slurs)...Having been a "minority" (Acadian) in my country, I am used to it and I can take it (and would let it exist) but it does not reflect well on Sahaj Marg as a Spiritual discipline and "offends" some (other) French people. (especially the French from France as they still are in an "empire" mind set, having been one of Europes colonial empires of the past centuries.

Peace on Earth to all of Goodwill

Hadn't considered that

Don

Oh man! That was most DEFINITELY not a racial slur!! It just rhymed with blog! Sheer ridiculousness due to a mood of absurdity. Hope everybody doesn't think that it was like that. I can see how it might have been interpreted that way now, due to the fct that most of the blogs are French, and frogs legs are a delicacy in France! Not my intention whatsoever!! Josh

Prayer and Humility heals all

It does not offend me personally, having used it myself to "desensitise" situations in my "mediation and arbitration" roles in the past, but it does still offend some. But controlling the Mind, which is what Raja Yoga is about with it's Octave (eight-fold) path, maybe does not work if the tapas (austerities, sacrifice, service etc..) are removed from the system as with Sahaj Marg. It removes the sensitivity and the compassion and the love for the neighbour and specially for the "enemy" and makes one, in one's moment of anger, lash out with uncontolled words from the unfettered mind. Maybe the tapas was the "compassion-giving" mechanism of the Raja Yoga system.

Some of Chariji's comments on Christianity (confession) and Christ (wisdom in being crucified) also offends Christians but he also does not know, not being aware of the implications of the historical "righteousness" of the Christian mindset. Questionning Christ's wisdom in being crucified is akin to questionning Martin Luther King widsom in being shot. It just happened and should be respected as such and not "used" to further the goal of "stealing the sheep" of the Catholic or the Christians "Shepherds". The same for the "ability of Priests to "fogive sins", it should just be accepted as such, specially from a person who claims to be able to "create 10 Vivekenandas" at one sitting and to "remove Samskaras" from the Abhyasis. His statements, in my opinion, will creates "samskaras" and will be part of the "denseness" hat Chari transmits to the rest of you. And you will become like him as you "wish". Carefull what you wish, is the wisdom I was taught. Unless you think, like Chari, that his statements come from God, being the representative of God, and that he is "right" as he likes to claim.

The Jews are saying the same thing to the Christians who are trying to get Jews to convert to Christianity and I agree with them there also. It shows a great amount of ego and Machievialinism that is not what the claims of the group reflects. Love and respect should be what the Master encourages and "displays" also, and maybe that is the danger of becoming a "clone" of an imperfect Master. All the Imperfections also enter in. I am sure that you, in your own heart would be sensitive to "racism" and racist slurs. But Power corrupts. And that is what those who have left Sahaj Marg are saying. We did not like what we became with Sahaj Marg...See Chari's Denmark speech in Nopvmber 2003....

But I am sure that all this also shall pass....and I won't preach at you but I have the right to question and judge the system, if not the individuals in the system. How else can we use the "claim" and the "quote" approach of the Journalist in writing an encyclopedia, if we do not know what to attribute to a claim and what is a concensual "truth" because we all can see it. By their fruit, you shall know them, is a quote attributed to Christ but I'm sure it is not "original".....It is just a "Truism" and should be a benchmark for all spiritual disciplines and certainly for the Masters of these disciplines...

AMEN....(Just a Joke, I am not religious) "So be it" is the meaning of Amen in Latin...

PS. Thanks again for your "spirit" and your understanding of my intent here. If you are left with a bad taste, let me know...My intent is to reach a "brotherhood" with you and not an "enemy". Although if we do, I will still attempt to love you as an enemy and not ignore and reject you but to respect you as a "part of the ONE God".

Don...

Unfortunate Circumstances

Don

I can assure you that I didn't get my insensitivity from Chariji. I was not even aware that "frog" was a racial slur. Of course, if Chariji had told me that it was, I would not have used it, but other than that, I cannot find a way to blame him for my ignorance. I feel badly that world situations have led to such a general feeling of mistrust that the mere mention of an amphibian is enough to hurt someone's feelings. However, this is not my doing or responsibility, though I will take more care in the future.

Josh PS -- Thanks for making the change!

PPS -- Just noticed your recent blog entries. Thank you for your trust. By the way, the allegation that I am involved in computer science is absolutely false. I am, in fact, pursuing a career as a classical violinist.

Josh

I stand corrected

Sorry...It must have been another with the same name. Good luck in your music career. I have corrected on Poxy SRCM in my latest post...

Don

Thank You

Thanks, Don. I appreciate that.

Josh

Sahaj Marg

Hi Don, unfortunately I had to remove some of the links you posted to articles in French, according to Misplaced Pages guidelines. Do you know if there are translations of the aforementioned articles? They would be a welcome addition to the article (for balance).

Sfacets 06:40, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Sahaj Marg NPOV

Hi! Hope this finds you well. I'm interested in collaborating on an updated version of the Sahaj Marg article. I've posted some comments on the discussion page for Sahaj Marg... I've also read your blog, and it seems we've shared some experiences. I'm fairly well versed in SM literature and philosophy, as well as being an avid wikipedia reader, so I bet between yourself, me, Sfacets and CP-Sakha we can come up with something even better than what's there now.

MatheoDJ 2006-10-16 10:37 (UTC)

Hi Matheodj =

Thanks for the input...and this message....I will write a comment on the Sahaj Marg Discussion page..

This is for you and me....CP-Sakha is now in India with Chari (in the Lion's den as Chari calls it), trying to "get back in" and although the idea of changing the text of the article and leaving the majority of the "quotes" in on my blog, sounds like a good idea, this is where the majority of the "searchers" come so this is the place to leave a "stand-alone" and "paraphrased" article and not rely on the "individual" blogs that are rumoured to be soon "legally challenged" by the Mission. So this is the only place for "controversial" information that might survive the "legal" challenges (being "paraphrased").

In a perfect world, I would agree with you. But this is a group that, being businessmen, and the "kings of Industry" and Indian "nationalists", use the courts all the time even against one another. If you read KC Narayana (Dr Varadachari's son, ex-member of the "working committee" and leader of the breakaway, ISRC (Institute for Ram Chandra Consciousness) which Christian and a bunch of preceptors and abhyasis have "defected" to, on Christian's blog, and also the comments on Michael's blog, you will notice that this is a "business" that uses Sprituality as a "product". So they are protecting their "investment" and their product.

See you later..We can discuss the Sahaj Marg material on the "discussion Page" there.....

Sfacets is the one who made me aware of the "Homosexuality" issue...

--don 20:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)Don..

From SMSF-Srcm

Since removed by SMSF srcm...See History Nov 21 for content

Reply to SMSF srcm

Hi SMSF...

Thanks for you message...I placed it at the end of the page...

So you have any proof of what you say.

1. Can you tell me a little about yourself... a. Abhyasi? Still part of SRCM? b. Preceptor? c. Which part of the world (India, Europe, USA, Canada ...) d. Why speak out now?

2. Baster's son, Krisha, owns the SRSF? Is there documentation or statements to this effect?

3. Barry Day is let go for speaking out? Does Barry Day speak out now, or is he still in SRCM?

4. Do you intend to "go public" as many of have done? Are you willing to "testify" (stand up and be counted) or give "your testimonial" anonymously. (compilation is in progress in Europe).

5. Do you have any evidence that the "inner circle" is travelling free of charge or at the expense of the Mission? (You mentionned one name and "son" of the Master)

6. Words written anonymously have no weigth and are just "hearsay" or gossip. Will you furnish a name (your first name and city) with the understanding that I can print it, and/or proof or evidence if that is possible?

Thanks for your contribution to the Wealth of Material being sent to me daily...If you want to communicate more "anonymously" that this, you can send it to "don-4d-don@hotmail.com"

Don--don 20:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

From SMSF srcm

Since removed by SMSF srcm...(See History Nov 21 for content)

Hi SMSF srcm...

Thanks for the Info....I guess you know the "ins" and "outs" of the Mission so you must still be "in" and do not want to "expose" yourself.

I will wait for your next instalment...and sorry that you are caught in such a "terrible" situation, if things are as you describe them...It must be terrible. Is this the "path to the ONE God" for you? Do you think that the ONE God favours such "goings ons" with "blessings"?

don

From SMSF srcm

Hi don...

Since Removed by SMSF srcm...(See History Nov 21 for content)

Reply to SMSF srcm

Hi SMSF srcm...

What do you wish to accomplish with these messages to me on my "User Page"? Do you wish to give me a "heads up" or alert me to the "corruption" in the Mission? This information will be part of the "public debate" on Sahaj Marg and the SRCM and will not be "hidden"...

You probably realize that I don't have to be convinced about SRCM as I have been an abhyasis myself. I was there when Chari took over and left after meeting him and looking into his "soul" through the windows of the soul, the eyes.

I appreciate you information...If you want something more from me, please say so...I think your info should be out in the "public" as that is the place where it would have the most "impact"...It can be done without "exposing" yourself too much. Others have done it and you could do the same or add your comments to other people's sites where it would be seen by more people than on my "user page"

Just a thought...I will be here for you if you need me...and you don't "bother me"...You just confirm my and other's feelings and "suspicions"...

Thank you for your courage...

Keep on the Sunny Side of Life...and...Forgive them for they know not what they do!!!

Don...

Hi Don

You claim to be mostly impartial. But you are an ex-abhyasi. So you must have either got disillusioned or had a negative experience(any other possibility?). Can you tell me something that will make me feel that your true intention is to bring out information and not just rant against the organization *you* hate.

Is it not a bit unfair that a person who has a strong opinion about a topic somehow monopolizes the right to edit an article. I am not asking for that privilege myself. I would prefer to stick to the logic and will keep my hands dry until I fully know what the hell is going on. But how would I expect you to allow anybody to contribute anything to that article if you would first filter that to confirm it somehow proves that the institution is a fraud.

All your recent edits somehow focus on exposing SRCM and therefore I feel uncomfortable to a certain extent as it is very tiresome to deal with a frustrated guy with a lot of passion. I sometimes wonder why I have entered into this editwar where I am highly unlikely to encounter anyone who has little connection with SRCM either as an ex-member or a current member who is a strong believer.

I am not saying what u r doing is wrong. But just make me feel comfortable that I am dealing with someone who is interested in true knowledge much more than your mission to expose SRCM. 59.92.199.189 15:00, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Reply to 59.92.199.189

Hi 59.92.199.189

Unfortunately, most of the editors who get involved here have a "POV", me, your "friend", and you included. No one is "un-biased"...we all have a bias of some sort. What we want to do is to reach a concensus on an article so that all the POV are reflected and leave the reader chose the "knowledge" and truth he/she wants. Not all the information will be agreed upon but we can represent a "broad" picture of the topic and not just a "one-dimensional" view of the organization in question.

The adherents to SRCM want only what is the "Party line" and understandably so, as that is what they have to believe to belong to a group that demands "obedience" so as to reach the "Ultimate". But the truth is never "one-dimensional" as we live in a n...dimension reality. The truth is not "black and white" but various shades of grey. That is what the article should be so as to reflect the REALITY that this group claims to want to reach. They want to be the good guys in "WHITE" and anyone who questions or opposes their view as the bad guys, frustrated or "biased" etc..and paint them in "BLACK".

Now the INTERNET or Information revolution has changed all that and is giving those who have an experience of a product such as "spirituality" that is sold for "donations", cost of books, and cost of seminars, can now share that experience with others and that in itself is a "ROAD SIGN", either of danger or of "approval"...

We have the technology...Make it so...

Don--don 19:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)--don 19:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Don

I am fully aware that we all have a bias (including myself). But an article on wikipedia ought to be more "useful" than (infinity-infinity). The hard question is not whether the article should reflect a shade of grey. The real question is whether the guy who is determined to show that something it BLACK or WHITE should some how get any extra privileges. I am not accusing you of anything so don't bother to clarify. This is just logic, so don't think too much about "me" or "my motives".

But the situation is this. Do you really think the current state of the article is RGB=(0.5,0.5,0.5) or (127,127,127) (Exact grey in whatever definition) Now the problem is this: If some one wants to make it whiter... consensus is needed and if some one wants to make it blacker consensus is needed. So there is a bias towards the current state of the article. Do you disgree??

Again I do not argue that exact grey is the right color either. Having an exact grey article about the WTC bombings or the world wars is not an acceptable state even if 50% of the editors want to make it that way. So the question is how do you choose the state of grey. I do appreciate the fact that you seem to want produce "output" at the end of the day.

I used the word "colleague". "friend" is a word I reserve for a much smaller subset of people. The organization that I work for does not seem to have much of an effect on either our religious beliefs or practices. And don't worry, I became a Pastafarian very early in life. The reason for mentioning the reason for my arrival on that page is that. I wanted to avoid a huge controversy about why N.N.N.N is over here. Or maybe slip of the fingers ;-). Or maybe full disclosure ;-). Or maybe pretention of full disclosure ;-) or so on...

Ok let us start the discussion assuming that I have a bias anywhere b/w -infinity to +infinity.

Ignoring all that let us "slowly" yet "systematically" proceed towards "output".

All I want to say is that it is illogical to assume that the current version has "acceptance" merely because no one is consistently flipping the state of the article. And expecting consensus for all further alterations to use the current state of the article as a baseline. I am not demanding a rewrite from scratch. But I definitely demand a "rethought" from scratch. What i am saying by this is that the article is in state x. You moved it up by delta y therefore it needs to now be moved down by delta y. The focus should be on references and not on achieving perfect grey.

Your response shows that you believe in argument and not cursing and yelling and screaming. I hope neither of us will resort to cursing and screaming if we are proved "less correct" than the other party.

What I am saying is that it is stupid to have a prolonged lawsuit involving a guy who would after being proved wrong shoot you and the judge in cold blood and run away from the scene. I am not accusing you of being like that. But I want a gentleman's assurance from you that you do not believe that "Intelligent debate is 'one of the options'". I promise back the same.

59.92.199.74 15:17, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Reply to 59.92.199.74

Hi 59.92.199.74

Yes...an encyclopedia article will be biased towards the "status quo" which is the a conglomeration of the biases of the participants and/or contributors to date. Such is the state of "information" and the world in general. The status quo is the the status quo because someone took the time and the effort to make it so. But it is not one POV that is the Status quo, not mine or anyone else's.

I still get e-mails asking me to correct "inaccuracies" by others who for reason of their own (as yourself), chose to remain anonymous and "in the background" (University profs, businessmen, public servants (politicians, military, police, judicial, etc.). This issue has surfaced around this group in Europe and became a Media event as a judge and a politician were questionned in the media on their ability to remain "impartial", and be a follower of an SRCM with it's principle of "obedience" to a Master (a "foreigner"-media quote) to the point of "killing one's mother"....In Sahaj Marg, the Master becomes the father, mother, brother, friend, doctor etc...and there is no role that the Master does not undertake.

I don't have any problems with any of your arguments and have no counter, and as I have worked in "concensus" building, sometimes "when the issues do not matter", silence is the best way to reach concensus...So I will be silent on the rest of your comments.

I don't know if I can promise you "intelligence" but I can promise you an attempt at it!! But that will be my POV and it is not "neutral".  ;-)) lol

Keep on the Sunny Side of Life...

4d-don

Hi Don

I notice a time warp ;-). Whazzup? I think the infalliable FSM has screwed up the fabric of time!!! If you are also involved, I shall move out without collecting the light-saber from you. But I hope you realize by now that you lose more than SRCM by this!!! 59.92.187.104 18:56, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi 59.92.187.104

Yes I had to revert rather that check everything that was "changed" by n...dimensional "myths". If you go up one dimension, you will notice that the fabric of "motion" has not been warped or "screwed up", but that a mythic geometry expressed up one dimension is seen as a "motion or event" when looking down across the dimensions.

I am involved in trying to make the world a better place so that we can turn our attention and our "time and money" to expanding to the rest of the solar system and then the galaxy. (That means watching for "meteors" or other Civilization-busting events (environmental, disease, droughts, etc...

Money or wealth is the realm of PLUTO (the god of the underworld) in greek mythology and it's acolytes are called "plutocrats", the wealthy. When Plutocrats want power, they get involved in money and then the "religions" at their "crony" age. They are easy to spot as their theology is flawed (i.e. "God is Male",in most religions today), philosophies are flawed (women can't be Masters because they are not "destructive " enough and institutions are pyramidal with all the as power centralized into one Physical form or person. The natives and earth religions use the circle as their structural underpinning with the fire at the centre of the circle. Spirituality should be at least the "spiral".

Time is part of the the myth of the destroyer Siva or Shiva and in Greek myth Chronos, in Roman Myth Saturn (the planet), and represented that Father Time who destroys all...

I do not have a light saber to hand over, but ideas and I think that it's the technology that is "man of the year"!! and the blogger is just a user who "publishes" in virtual space.

Money, being abstract, a counting system, belongs in virual space. The math is already there with negative numbers or "Debt". The economist, the bean counter, should not lead or be the Master of society with his "saber", his adding machine (1d), creating an economy (2d), to buy and sell goods and services (3d). Pluto and the Plutocrats try to "sell" the 4d of rewards on the "other side", in the "brighter world" and takes the "time and money" of the "do gooders" who would be doing the "social work" that our planet so direly need. An it's a gift that they can't give as they don't own it. It belongs to the ALL or the ONE!!

The leader (at this time) should be the "technocracy....See the seven archtypes of the Kabbalah (Jewish) http://www.kheper.net/topics/Kabbalah/SeferZohar.htm and the seven principles of the Kybalion (Egypt) www.thenazareneway.com/kybalion.htm

I hope that none of us lose but that all gain, even me, you and SRCM and the "plutocrats". If I read and encyclopedia article, I would like it to look like this one in the future with all sides free to have an expression...and it does!! The .com, .org, .net are all available to SRCMtm and will reamain for a long time. We, the common folks now have Wiki and the Blogs.....If there is a bit of info that you see and that would reflect your view, I welcome it... with references of course... If ever I meet another Pastafarian, I will talk about you in kindness...I will say that I like your spirit and will mention that pasta bullets should bring "sauce" and not blood...like you mentionned last TIME!! ;-))

Saturn (TIME) the planet is in Leo and is just rising here!!

Pluto is not a planet any more and is to be returned to the Underworld with His (male) gifts of Plutonium and oil.

Saturn as the god of TIME will be taken out of the n...dimensional model of the physical Universe that is in vogue today thanks to Minkowski (1908), teacher of Einstein. Instead of SPACETIME, we will start to see the 4th dimension of space and then look to MOTION for the other further dimensions (measurements) (an octave (8) of dimensions, I think, for a galactic consciousness. We see the seven nodes in music scale (sound), in light (the rainbow), transitions from crystal (matter) back to energy and if we look at string theory, back to SPACE! So from Space to Space!)

Phase transitions:

1 Take ice, add heat and you get water, a liquid

2 Take a liquid and add heat and you get steam, a gas

3 Take a gas and add heat and you get plasma, an ionized gas (electrons seperated for the nucleus (protons and neutrons)

4. Take a plasma and add heat and you get a "no-name yet # 1" but is a rarified gas with only protons and neutrons and their gluons (carriers of the forces) in isolation or not bound

5. Take a sea of "proton/neutron/gluons rarified gas" and add heat and you get a "no-name yet # 2" but is a more rarified gas with only gluons (force carriers) not bound in the proton and the neutron.

6. Take a sea of gluons and add heat and your get a "no-name yet # 3" but is a sea of "quarks" arranged in 3's to make the proton/neutron and in 2's for the gluons

7. Take a sea of quarks and add heat and you get a sea of "strings" one-dimensional energy of space itself

TIME then is seen as the "rate of change" and not the "change" (transitions, transformation events) itself. MOTION is the "thing". As we (Newton)saw the force of "attraction" and called it gravity, we now see thanks to the 1850's many scientists, that "gravity" is a warping of 4d spacemotion (my word) and is not a "spooky action at a distance" as Einstein said.

But I ramble....If you need me, I'll be in the Euclidean Relativity sites and discussions... on my many "patrols"...under an aka of course. lol

Safely tucked inside the ONE (God) where we live!!!

Don...--don 23:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Got your point.

THE SID 59.92.187.104 03:26, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

talk:Sahaj Marg

I'd noticed the weird situation with talk:Sahaj Marg before, but I couldn't figure out how to resolve it. I don't know that your fix is great either, as now there's duplicate material in two places. I think it would have been better to un-rediect the page and leave it blank until someone wants to write a new comment. -Will Beback · † · 02:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Readability of Sahaj Marg, SRCM pages

Hello Don

Let me start by saying that given the company I have, I'm thankful to have someone as balanced and level-headed as you on the reviewer board for these pages. Even though you and I are obviously on opposite ends of the opinion spectrum on SRCM and SahajMarg, I honestly do appreciate that you're ready to accommodate my point of view, so... Thank you! Please know that I too would be happy to accommodate yours, however little I may like it or agree with it. :)

I'm looking at the big picture of the format of these pages. The readability is just terrible currently. I think we'd both like to make these easy to read and retrieve info. Given how long you've been looking after these pages, I bet you've tried to clean things up and then watched things get undone after a while. If you have the energy for one more attempt, I'd like to collaborate.

At a big picture level, I noticed a couple things - 1. SRCM (the Mission) and Sahaj Marg (the method) have been seriously intertwined, and material meant for one page is on the other (or both). For example, it makes no sense to have an "Activities" section on SahajMarg. This belongs to SRCM. 2. The "blocks" of information are dissipated all over the map. Most wiki pages I've read have a format that goes: Section 1) Facts and Figures 2) Opinion 1, background data 3) Opinion 2, background data 4) Opinion 3 if there is a third, background data 5) Links, citations, references, templates, etc.

Would like to hear your opinion on this. Thanks

--Marathi mulga 01:33, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Balance on the Sahaj Marg page

Hi Don

Sorry to be whiny but I currently feel like a Jewish person at a Nuremberg rally. :)

Some pretty off-the-wall claims are being made on the Sahaj Marg page, and even if you hate SRCM, "because I say so" is never adequate grounds to place anything there (or overturn previous edits). Just keep in mind, that the more extreme the stance the article has, the less credibility it carries (especially when the first thing the reader is reading is the neutrality warning on top of the page). I could easily go in and take out whatever little pro-SRCM material is in there and further skew it into a complete hate-page that no balanced person would accept as truth. That would further reduce the value of whatever balanced criticism was in there in the first place.

Look forward to your advice on this and what to do about it.

MM

--Marathi mulga 16:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Don

Felt good to read your response. What you suggest is a sensible way to go forward (and that's a big deal because its 2 steps back for every step forward with this crowd).I'll give the others some time to cool off. I too need to think about the next steps to avoid a edit war - That doesn't do anyone any good.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do because you'd have made an awesome abhyasi. When did you meditate (in SRCM)? How long?

MM --Marathi mulga 00:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks... Again

Hi Don

Appreciate your taking the lead on toning down the rhetoric. For my part, I've been trying hard consciously to keep out anything but the plain hard facts (morning meditation, evening cleaning type stuff) and have none of my opinions in there. But it gets harder to edit this page when such extreme opinions get voiced.

Oh well, keeping going and hoping we see some VOLUNTARY moderation. :)

MM --Marathi mulga 22:25, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

First off, it has been great having you around. Sethie appreciates your level-headedness, and your lack of hurry, or pushiness.

Most importantly Sethie DEEPLY appreciates your commitment to NPOV... from your posts it seems clear you have a stance on who is genuine, who isn't, etc., yet Sethie senses you really wish to create a very neutral telling of that facts.

Thanks also for the light-heartedness, a quality Sethie would like to bring more of to wikipedia. Warmly, Sethie 07:44, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Please....

Sethie gets that you understand NPOV and wiki policies better then Shashwat AND that you maybe see things the way he does.

Would you please enter the dialogue? Sethie is getting tired of being the one to constantly keep Shashwat focused on wiki policies and bring his edits into line with wikipedia.

The only way for an article to have long-term stability is to get it really clean and tight. There is plenty of room for criticisms, and next to no room for how Shashwat wants to express them, no long term room that is.

You have a POV, and that's fine. What you also seem to have is the capacity to try and be neutral. Would you please enter the dialogue from that place- from the place of trying to honor wiki policies?

Anyway your joviality would help, a lot.

Sethie has next to no feelings about Sahaj Marg, this is all an excercise in applying wiki policies and remaining civil for him. You on the other hand seem to have some passion and interest in the article, so Sethie is appealing to you to please participate more. Sethie 17:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Please, please, please, please

Would it work for you to please keep conversations about a particular topic under that particular section? Sethie is reffering in this case to the "contradiction" section. You and Sethie were dialogueing, Sethie responded and then you put your respone under the you-tube section, which sethie then changed to "Don's comments."

Sethie is asking this for the sake of simplicity, clarity and ease of tracking discussions.

Also, this page, from Sethie's perspective, has a lot of problems, and gettting the talk page in shape is a real simple thing that could move things forward.Sethie 16:28, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again

Your lastest batch of edits really helped to clean up the article.

Sethie still has concerns about the whole "represented" thing, but your edit certainly feels more neutral then what was there. Sethie 23:54, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Re SRCM edits

Hi Sethie...

I am just beginning. Hopefully we can keep the SRCM "un-edited" and untouched for a whle. The Sahaj Marg article was "NPOV" before this last "gang" of editors (except for paraphrasing for reasons of accusations of "out of context" by members of SRCM (California))and is now really skewed first in favour of SRCM (Claifornia) and now against SRCM (California)...It's like "instant Karma"..lol With your help, we can fix it and bring it back to NPOV... "sort of" anyway...lol.. I am not neutral but will attempt to keep my "POV" out and I count on you to keep me "on the straight and narrow"...lol and I will try and keep other editors which will remain "un-named", and as a legendary "judge" would say: Son, I'm gonna put you on the "good road for a while"....

I don't understand the statement in your message to me:

Sethie still has concerns about the whole "represented" thing, but your edit certainly feels more neutral then what was there.

Could you clarify... on my talk page...

PS... I can't post on your talk page because of your "spam filter" it says it's because of ORKUT.com...which I am on...

How can I get rid of that and post to your talk page??

Don--don 16:21, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Heya- Sethie feels gratitude and appreciation for working for NPOV with your POV.THANKS!!!!

The represented is the "Represents the Divine" thing.

Yeah Sethie will post on talk page... and not sure about that spam filter. He'll look into it. Sethie 02:15, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Get Well Soon

Don

Get well, soon!

--Marathi mulga 02:45, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Dear Don,

It was good to hear from you on the delete page. I wanted to let you know that even though we have different POVs, in the brief time I worked with you on the SRCM page I appreciated your fairness and reasonableness and can see that you truly hold to the Wiki values of fairness, balance, and civility. Thank you!

Good luck with your surgery.

Renee --Renee 12:19, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

p.s. When I was trying to figure out how to make a user box yesterday I came across this and thought of you!

Talk

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This user finds copyright paranoia disruptive.

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Rfc/user for Shashwat pandey

Dear 4d-don,

Users Sethie and Reneeholle have filed an Rfc for user Shashwat pandey.

Because you have contributed to either the Sahaj Marg page, the Shri Ram Chandra Mission page, or both, we would appreciate it if you could provide your comments of this user at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Shashwat_pandey

Here are the guidelines for responding :

• Other users can endorse a view (under 1.7), by adding their signature to the list after that view. Along with their signature, they may wish to offer a clarifying comment of one or two sentences, for example if they agree with all but one particular part of the view. Longer responses than that should probably go into their own "View" section.
• Anyone can endorse any view, regardless of whether or not they are outside parties, inside parties, or even the subject of the RfC. Ideally, there will be some view(s) that both sides of the involved parties can endorse.
• You may endorse as many views as you wish. You may also endorse the original RfC statement (under section 1.7), and/or the subject's response (under section 2).

Thank you for your time. It is greatly appreciated! 18:18, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

I really appritiate your contribution on sahaj marg talk page. can you become actively involved in the page as i do not feel the two links which are currently provided in the page meet the standered of wikipedia verifiablity and reliable source, one of them is directly from the group source !! and another one is a blog, are such external links accepted ? Can that be taken as a reliable source, if yes, then i have pleanty of material ready, but i will wait till i learn the tricks and tips of wikipedia.

Thank you once again !

Glowry Be

--Rushmi 12:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Sahaj Marg

An article that you have been involved in editing, Sahaj Marg, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Sahaj Marg. Thank you. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 20:47, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

question?

Hi Don,

Are you open to receiving emails? If yes, please activate yours or send one to me and I'll reply. If not, no problem. Renee Renee 01:22, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi Don, I just wanted to know if you thought Sahaj Marg the practice works? (free from any organization; either of the SRCMs or ISRC) I didn't know if you felt comfortable answering that on the public board so hence asked if you wanted to email. I'm truly interested in what you think of the practice alone? Best wishes, Renee

p.s. My husband does not practice Sahaj Marg; he started on the SRF (self-realization fellowship) path 25 years ago and has stuck with that...so you can see that even in our own household, we believe there are many ways to the top of the mountain...Renee 19:22, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Shri Ram Chandra Mission (Chennai)

An article that you have been involved in editing, Shri Ram Chandra Mission (Chennai), has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Shri Ram Chandra Mission (Chennai). Thank you. Renee 22:23, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Shri Ram Chandra Mission (Shahjahanpur)

An article that you have been involved in editing, Shri Ram Chandra Mission (Shahjahanpur), has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Shri Ram Chandra Mission (Shahjahanpur). Thank you. Renee 22:23, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Institute of Sri Ram Chandra Consciousness

An article that you have been involved in editing, Institute of Sri Ram Chandra Consciousness, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Institute of Sri Ram Chandra Consciousness. Thank you. Renee 22:23, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi Don, I had added two notes to the AfD (I think before deletion - but I am sometines not too observent about such things so I may have added after I should have). I thought your points important, and I am sorry they were ignored.

What I added was this:

I have no opinion on the article, but I think that Don's ideas for a neutral party to mediate are of central importance. My experience with Renee, when she came to the Alice Bailey article under an RfC, is that while she claimed to be neutral, she was highly partisan from the beginning. So while I can not say that she is wrong here (I do not know), I can say her claims of neutrality can not be trusted. Kwork 16:03, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I want to add something about the vote of Jamesd1 (below) to 'delete'. If you take a look at his contributions since he started editing on Misplaced Pages about six months ago, you will see that from the time he began editing up until his 'delete' vote here, he has been a single purpose editor; editing only the Alice Bailey article. With that in mind, it is difficult for me to see what knowledge Jamesd1 could have of Sri Ram Chandra Consciousness in general, or the article about it in particular. On the other hand, considering the enormous help Renee gave to Jamesd1 in his arguments with me about the Alice Bailey article, it is hard not to view his vote here as a pay-back for her help there. Out of fairness, I think he should remove his vote. Kwork 16:33, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I can not say that I feel very positive about my experience editing Misplaced Pages. Kwork 18:05, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Re : Shri Ram Chandra Mission AfDs

I've closed two of the AfDs as per the previous three headings as delete. I've taken a look at your opinion and checked it against the two articles, but they clearly do not contain any independent references or sources (other than those provided by the organization itself) that would have passed the verifiability and notability standards for inclusion in Misplaced Pages. I'm not touching Shri Ram Chandra Mission (Chennai) as there are a few secondary sources that might warrant a second look. - Best regards, Mailer Diablo 17:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Sahaj Marg India

Hi Don,

Greetings, you appear to be quite knowledgeable person (your awards) i noticed you here you were the only person who nominated against deletion of the page, rest all are cult member's who manipulate and work behind wikipedia to promote cult view on wikipedia and internet in general. From your talk page it appears that you have sufficient knowledge about the subject so as to start a page. people such as user:Jossi should be barred from editing wikipedia, as they do not confirm to statements made by them only ! how can you help me starting the page deleted by a well known cult promoter user:Jossi. Please respond, if you are still on wikipedia. --talk-to-me! (talk) 16:48, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks heavens I have someone with information, I am trying to re-write the page here, but given my one week experience with this cult i may not be able to write a complete article, may be you would like to participate in discussion here also

A brief intro about myself also, I am an engineer working in india, and am a student of vedanta school, recently i noticed couple of divorces in my neighborhood, all because of so called spiritual groups, as i myself was quite involved in spirituality and metaphysics as a subject, i wondered how come such things happen in so called spiritual groups, a further study reviled everything, these are dangerous cults, manipulating and brainwashing people and draining them of whatever knowledge they may have, i noticed jossi few months back, and when i sow him deleting a cult page, things became absolutely clear to me. These groups spoil name of my country and the philosophy i am student of. please participate in discussion and add to the info. --talk-to-me! (talk) 18:52, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

--talk-to-me! (talk) 18:09, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

new info?

Dear Don,

Welcome back (I think)  :-)

Do you know of any dissertations or scholarly articles that have recently emerged on Sahaj Marg? I heard there were some in India but don't know if they are in English or not.

Thanks, Renee (talk) 21:34, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Sahaj Marg India/fr

A tag has been placed on Sahaj Marg India/fr, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section G1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent. If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. ~ LegoKTM 02:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Talk page of deleted article

Please do not re-create talk pages of deleted articles, as these will be speedy deleted per CSD G:8. See WP:CSD.≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 20:01, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Sahaj Marg article

I'd like to see an article about Sahaj Marg but only if it can be sourced from reliable 3rd-party secondary sources Court records don't cut it, though they can be used for supporting information. If there are no secondary sources available then the notability of the group, and the verifiability of anything we say about them, is questionable. I suggest that the way to start is to find those sources. Until then there's nothing much to do. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 02:10, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

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