Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:47, 22 March 2008

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An Automated Message from HagermanBot

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Misplaced Pages pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! HagermanBot 17:08, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Interesting to see that I who has always signed (maybe only in one case not), gets a warning and the vandalizer and political activists wo enjoy supports from some administrators usually to not sig. I ask why? The answer is clear. Babakexorramdin 13:06, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

More reading on Georgian Iranians

Muliani, S. (2001) Jaygah-e Gorjiha dar Tarikh va Farhang va Tammadon-e Iran. Esfahan: Yekta

Rahimi, M.M. (2001) Gorjiha-ye Iran; Fereydunshahr. Esfahan: Yekta

Sepiani, M. (1979) Iranian-e Gorji. Esfahan: Arash

Esfahan's tourist exhibition, mentiones the Georgians from Fereydunshahr and Fereydan.The report of this exhibition is available in the web site of the Iranian Cultural Heritage News agency at: http://www.chn.ir/news/?Section=1&id=12497

Saakashvili's visited Fereydunshahr and put flowers on the graves of the Iranian Georgian martyrs' graves, showing respect towards this community http://www.iran-newspaper.com/1383/830420/html/internal.htm

see also http://www.iranica.org Babakexorramdin 23:10, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

thanks

Thanks for the comments. َAbout Esfahan the overwhelming language is of course Persian speaking but as you mentioned there are Georgian, Armenian, Qashqai and Bakhtiari. I think in such articles we should mention the overwhelming language and then put also Georgian, Armenian, Qashqai, Bakhtiari.. به ویکیپیدا خوش آمدید.

--alidoostzadeh 01:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC) that would be a good idea, burt I think vandals like Pejman=Mohammed= Azxerbaijani would keep going on vandalizing anyway. Babakexorramdin 01:40, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Ali jan I have seen your newest solution. That is very innovative. Please apply the same formula to the other ostans too. I will definetly support it. Babakexorramdin 01:45, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey

Just wanted to let you know that I created a new article for Iran-Georgain historical relations because that section was getting way too big. You can find it here: Persia-Georgia relations.Hajji Piruz 18:43, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I have seen that. Thanks. Encyclopedia Iranica has a good section on that, but it makes some mistakes at some points. I have put some names in other fashion in that article in wikipedia. I will be editing it if needed using Persian sources such as Falsafi and Monshi.

Babakexorramdin 00:29, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

A discussion at the ANI about your edits

Hi Babakexorramdin. A thread about your way of editing has just been opened here at the ANI. You are invited to participate there or else reading the verifiability policy and the burden of evidence and WP:CITE would be sufficient i believe. -- FayssalF - 00:10, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

If someone sees my sources to which I refer not as sources then he has serious problems in understanding scientific discourse.Babakexorramdin 15:01, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Arbcom

Hi. Please be aware that you've been named as a party to an arbcom case here: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2. Regards, Grandmaster 12:10, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Can you tell me mr. Novruzov, where and if only where I have been discussing something about Armenia- Azerbaijan? This makes no sense at all. --Babakexorramdin 20:01, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Ahar

Hello Babakexorramdin. I noticed that you frequently edit Iranian-Georgian articles. Do you happen to have any additional info about the purported Georgian dynasty of medieval Ahar? Many thanks in advance, --Kober 09:53, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Hello, unfortunately I have no information ready on this. But tell me please do you mean the north Iranian territory under the Georgian suzerainty in the Georgian Golden period? What is the exact date? --Babakexorramdin 17:14, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, as far as I know Ahar was ruled in the 12th-13th centuries by the Besheqenids, a Muslim branch of the Orbeli (?) family which had been expelled from Georgia. The Iranica article on Ahar contains very vague information about this dynasty. Vladimir Minorsky's "The Georgian Maliks of Ahar." BSOAS vol. 13/4, 1951, pp. 868-77 would be of great help, but, unfortunately, I have no access to the article. Best regards, --Kober 17:25, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the Kasravi´s book Shahriaran-e Gomnam provides the solution. it is the book which delas with the lesser known dynsisties and royal clans during this lesser known islamic period. I try to find the book and see what it says.--Babakexorramdin 20:50, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2 Closed

The above named arbitration case in which you were named as a party has closed. The remedy is as follows: The remedies of revert limitations (formerly revert parole), including the limitation of 1 revert per week, civility supervision (formerly civility parole) and supervised editing (formerly probation) that were put in place at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan shall apply to any editor who edits articles which relate to Armenia-Azerbaijan and related ethnic conflicts in an aggressive point of view manner marked by incivility. Before any penalty is applied, a warning placed on the editor's user talk page by an administrator shall serve as notice to the user that these remedies apply to them.

You may view the full case decisions here.

For the Arbitration Committee, - Penwhale | 00:28, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok thank you. Now you have seen that I was not at all involved with Armenian/ Azerbaijan issue. It seems that Grandmaster (and his group) see everything which opposes their POV as something Armenia/Azerbaijan related. They also want to extend their issue into the Turkish and Iranian pages, which has nothing to do with them. --Babakexorramdin 09:52, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Turkic languages

Hi, You keep adding some factual accuracy tag to the classification on Turkic languages page yet you have no provided any further discussion on Talk:Turkic languages. All you have mentioned in your edit notes is "The classification is not accurate and seems very odd". Please provide further details on what is not accurate and what is odd on Talk:Turkic languages instead of continually adding a tag that doesn't seem supported. --Stacey Doljack Borsody 22:09, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I think I had answered you already and I suggetsed that you had not read my entry on the discussion page.--Babakexorramdin 17:26, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

You are right. I had not read your entry because I did not see it buried in the comments for Talk:Turkic_languages#Alternative_representation_of_the_family_tree. I suggest that when you add tags for disputing something on an article you need to be more overt and start a new topic directly related to the tag on the talk page. That will make it easier for everyone to find. --Stacey Doljack Borsody 18:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

OK I understand what you mean. I better begin a new topic. What I did I wrote directly under the classifier's text in the talk page. A new Topic at the end of the page was better. --Babakexorramdin 07:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Re:Iranel-Kartvelebi

Hello Babakexorramdin. Thanks for your message. I agree that history writing is frequently dominated by nationalist scholars, but there are many credible historians in Georgia, Iran, Azerbaijan, and elswhere who never resort to the fabrication of history. I would like to cooperate with you on Iranian-Georgian topics when we both have enough time. I presume you belong to that community and your contributions would be of great value. Didi madloba again.--Kober 07:13, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I hope one day I can meet a neutral Historian from the rep. Azerbaijan!!!!! --Babakexorramdin 15:41, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Mazandarani ethnology

It would be my pleasure! Unforunately i rarely access Y! IM, But you can email me, If i found enough time, I also have plan for Georgian-Related Articles, Specially cities and towns in Georgia, Keep on contact. --Ali 05:32, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Salam Baradar

It is interesting to meet an Iranian Georgian. Is the Georgian community from the Safavid era or is it from the USSR era? I Would like to learn more as recently I was doing research on the impact of Shahnameh on Georgian culture and literature. If you can enable your e-mail that would be great since I would like to know more. --alidoostzadeh 05:00, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Ther Georgian settlement of Iran has been from the Safavid era onwards. It has had huge impacts on the genetic make up of Iranians. Unfortunately there are some forces in Iran who want to keep silent on this. The Panturkists are the most active one in it by removing all Georgian impact on the Iranian history and attributing it to the Turks. The Safavid empire was driven by the Georgians, now the panturks say they were Turks. They have no answeres why then they fought in the name of Iran against the Ottoman Turks.--Babakexorramdin 10:26, 3 November 2007 (UTC) by the way send an email to me to the same ID at yahoo. Then I will respond to you by another email. --Babakexorramdin 10:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Georgians formed the most important component of the new army of Shah Abbas and without that army, without Allah verdi Khan, Iran would not have defeated the Uzbeks and Ottomons Turks. It can be safe to even go further that without this Georgian army, Iran might not have existed today. I'll write more about my opinion on pan-Turkism in an Email since I usually do not participate in modern political articles in Wiki. I am against all sorts of ethnic politics (any sort of pan) since they usually lead to bitterness of the heart and the soul. Here is a good article I recently read (big article in Persian). But from a historical point of view, there are tens if not hundreds of descriptions of the features of Turks in Persian literature by Iranian authors (take Sanai or Nezami or Hafez for example) and all of these feature unanimously describe non-Caucasian looking people (that is our dear Turkomens, Kazakhs, Qirqiz and etc.) (Cheshm Tang, Soort-e-Pahn hamcho sepehr and etc.. or look at the statues of Seljuqs). So I think pan-Turkists have a dilemma if they want to describe the Turkic speaking people of Iran as primarily descendants of Turks of Central Asia and deny their connection with the rest of Iranians and ancient Iran. Khoda Hafez Shoma. --alidoostzadeh 00:53, 6

November 2007 (UTC)

You are very right my friend. --Babakexorramdin 07:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

ای میل زدم. پیروز باشید —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ali doostzadeh (talk • contribs) 02:56, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Khorasani Turkic

Please see the discussion here --07fan 22:06, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Safavid monuments

Gamarjoba Babakexorramdin. How are you? Unfortunately, I don't have that list at hands right now, but I'll try to find some info on that. Most of Safavid-era architecture was destroyed in the Qajar attack on Tbilisi in 1795. Of those which survived into the 20th century, the so-called Shah Abbas Mosque (seen on a picture, the one with a green dome and just opposite to the Metechi fortress), was demolished by the Soviets in the early 1930s. Another notable one, Rostom Khan's Palace is now ruined, but the government has recently launched a reconstuction project. I'll contact you as soon as I obtain more info. Cheers, --Kober 18:41, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Dzalian didi madloba. I also assume that much is destroyed in tsarist times. A painful but kept-in-silence page of history also tells that after Tsarist conquest of georgia many Georgian notable families of Shia faith fled to/ were depeorted to Iran. They usually bear the family name Gorji or it simply appears in their last name. Russians have kept this silent for a long time and the Iranian historians only wrote in general stressing more the royal history rather than people's history. I hope in the coming years we can shed more lights also on these issues--Babakexorramdin (talk) 18:58, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Sure... that's a very interesting episode of which we don't know much. Several Georgian nobles relied on Iran in the struggle against Russia early in the 19th century. Prince Alexander (Eskander Mirza), although Christian, spearheaded this movement. He was one of the closest associates of Abbas Mirza. His name was intentionally obscured throughout the Soviet period and resurfaced again in the 1990s. There was a general tendency to downplay the Georgian cultural and political ties with Iranian civilization, not only with the Islamic one, but also with pre-Islamic empires. Nakhvamdis, --Kober 19:25, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

AGF

Hi, Babek. You seems to make quite a lot of very valuable contributions as well as provide a good expertise in a number of topics. Misplaced Pages needs it. On the other hand, I cannot help but notice that you often behave in confrontational and uncivil manner (e.g. , , etc.). Misplaced Pages is a cooperative project that include a large number of editors of all backgrounds and political persuasions. The downside of this that behavior igniting conflicts considered to be very harmful and can lead to bans even for very valuable editors (that is always pity). In order to avoid this please read and follow WP:CIVIL, WP:AGF, WP:DICK, WP:V and other wonderful wiki-acronyms. Try to comment on the edits rather than on the editors, assume good faith, forgive past stupidities, etc. Believe me it pays off in the long run Alex Bakharev (talk) 23:10, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

dear Alex I assume that 1- Misplaced Pages as a sourse of knowledge should not be political at all. 2- It should not be a racist forum. 3- It should not be biased. Unfortunately wikipedia´s main adminitrators were too tolerant to anti-Iranianism. Just remember the comments " what the fuck is Iran" of the guy who could be Enumber/ Baristarim. Why double standards?--Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:44, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Brenda Shaffer

Why is Brenda Shaffer controversial? Further reading section is important for other users who may find it useful. By the way Nationalities Papers are a peer-reviewed academic journal of Routledge and academic journals are valuable sources per se. I suggest leaving reference to her article there, no matter how controversial she is. Cheers. - Darwinek (talk) 20:27, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Brenda Shaffer (an Israeli army officer) has misquoted many sources, and misinterpreted everything. The fact that she is published in the nationalities papers says nothing. While Iranians do not get easily published in such journals, the anti-Iranianists get free hand. In general ] is promoted these days in the USA and American publications. See the discussion on her article. I agree with you that further reading is a good thing, but why not excellent authors from the community itself? If the anti-Iranianists do not like Kaveh Farrokh or Ahmad Kasravi tabrziz why not Atabaki e.g.??? --Babakexorramdin (talk) 20:33, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, I just add from time to time futher reading sections to various articles, mainly ethnic, historical and political. Well, if Shaffer is really from Israeli army, it is a problem. Should we then omit reference to her article from WP? - Darwinek (talk) 20:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Well I thgink she deserves her article and book get mentioned in her own article on WP. It seems that she likes this negative attention, because she has been invited time by time by the Iranian students in the USA to have a fair dialogue but she has declined time by time.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 20:54, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Iranian Georgians

Gamarjoba Babakexorramdin

I find in Hebrew that jews of Zagrum (or Zagrom or Zagram) from Georgia (I dont know where it is) migrate to Persia, with the leadership of Eliezer, in 1613, and they bild Farakh-abad and he helps abas to fight the ottomans. I dont know if they are same Georgians. I find it also her. it will be very interesting to check it. Geagea (talk) 00:29, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

gagimarjos geagea see the Kober0s page. I said I know about this but as I said I think they were Tat speaking jews rather than Georgian speaking ones.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:32, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Persian jews

Gamarjoba Babakexorramdin

There are many research about Persian jews in Israel. I belive you can find it also in English. As I told you I never herd that thiere are Georgian jews among the Persian jews, but I am not expert about it. I'll try to help my best.

firs article: (form her in Hebrew)

"chapters in the ancient legacy of Persian jews" by Shaul Shaked 1985

The article discribes the literature of the Persian jews until the Mongol invasion. He came to conclusion that the literature exist befor 14th century, and it is very different from the literature after 14th century. one of the source that mentioned is Cairo Geniza. From thiere Shaked learns a lot of things, for example that in the 10th century, beween the famous people among Persian jews, was T'ust'rim family and thiere origin was Bahuaz in H'ozastan and befor that from tuster in Iran. part of the Persian jews that imigrate from Persia to Egypte and Israel were Karaite Judaism.

Anothere interesting thing that mentioned is the Archaeological finding in the town Jm (Firuzabad) in Afganistan about big jewish community Persian language that disappear (from 1012-1218). Geagea (talk) 02:01, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the Karaite among Persian jews is a plausible fact. They appeared after the fall of Khazar empire. The percentage of jews in the Islamic caliphate rose sharply and many were settled in Iran. It is intresting fact the finding of a pre-mongolian jewish comunity in Afghanistan. Maybe Mongols killed them or they fled to other places. But why is not the same happen in Bukhara where there still live Persian jews? God knows. Also the Pashtuns are said to be of Islamized jewish origins.

The study of Persian jews should be done carefully and fact and fiction should be separated. Usually in all studies we deal with certain amount of speculations but in this case due to the strong anti-Iranianist lobby much nonsense is fabricated. of course there might have been those who hate the jews but it was never to the amounts as in Europe and it was certainly not normal to beat up the jews in the rain! --Babakexorramdin (talk) 03:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

the second article: (her in Hebrew)

"The history of the compelled jews of Mashhad according to Jacob Dilmanian" by Amnon Netser

He tell us that in the 19th century there was compelled jews in Tibriz, Mraga, Mianduav, Siahkhl, Shiraz, Blar and others. they were calld "jadid al-Islam" (new in Islam). Part of them stay Muslems and part of them convert back to Judaism. until today thiere are jews in Mazendran in the city of k'iak'ala that cald jadid al-Islamis.

there are only 2 people, except Jacob Dilmanian, that were compelled jews that tell us about temselfs: "Babi Iben Lutaf" (17th) and "Babi Iben Farahd" (18th). Dilmanian wrote in Persian language. he divided the period to 6. and the first one starts in the midlle of 18th durind Nadir Shah (or 1160 to hijra).

about the period before nadr shah thiiere is not inaf information. but the travler Aben-Batota visit Mashhad in 1333 that was big city that the Sufis said that it is holy city that other religios can not live there. but in the city Kom that holy to the shia were jewish community. also he mention that shah Abas tels to traveler name Antuan, in 1602, that he will give free trade to all religios.

I am Israeli jew origin from Georgia and I am not anti-Iranian as most the of the Israelis. I can understand that you fill anti-Iranian feelings from the around, but in my point of view it is better to ignore them. otherwise you will find yourself dealin only in talk pages. all the best. 03:35, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes Gia I know. The anti-Iranianist jews are usualy Ashkenazi and and mostly have double nationality of American- israeli. Not seen so many with other profiles, and I have never seen anti-Iranianist among Georgian jews and honestly also not among Iraqi jews. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 09:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry Babakexorramdin you are wrong about the Ashkenazi. the distinguish and other jews is only religious. There is not distinguish among the Israelis.

About the articles.

The research about the jews of Persia can tell much about the history of Persia and the origin of the people in Iran or cames from Persia. Geagea (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean there is no difference? Middle eastern jews are less racist towards Iranians, but the Ashkenazis especially those from the USA are. This gets its manifestations in trade, politics and public media. I might be wrong because it can also be because the non-Ashkenazi jews have less access to these instruments. But My personal experience also tells me the same story. I have had much encounters with Israeli jews of Iraqi, Turkish and Moroccan origins, however Israeli they were not racist towards me or used abusive language. But whenever in Europe or the USA there are always SOME jews who say the worst things to me and threat me like peace of dirt.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 23:20, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I can not argue with your expiriance, but I also meet Israelis of many kind evry day and belive me non of them is racist towards Iranians. And there is no difference between Ashkenazi or Sefaradi in Israel, the only difference is the origin. Geagea (talk) 00:39, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

yes maybe instead of Ashkenazi - Sephardi dichotomy I should have said origins. While there are of course many exceptions, the culture and the social political context of place of origins has great impacts on an individual.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 02:39, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Reference

You wrote here "It was sourced. DO NOT REMOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!". HERE is the so-called source. Please tell me WHERE do you see the true Name; I didn't see anything. --Raamin (talk) 01:32, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

The version you edited was linked to a Persian newspaper.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 01:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

You see I'm from Iran, and I can read persian texts. Where exactly is the true name of Sami Yusuf written? I can't see anything, just plain area. Here is the archive, the source should be exactly given. --Raamin (talk) 01:44, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

you should check around the date of entry. see also here: http://www.bia2.com/pourya/?p=320. It is claimed that it is also mentioned in Hamshahri newspaper. type his name in Persian and do a search thre. I have also heard the news on the Iranian TV. So a search in IRIB.ir is useful too. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 02:13, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately it's not my duty to find reliable sources for an article; the person, who adds new informations should do it ;-) Raamin (talk) 02:43, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok ask the person to do it, or if it suit you better not to mention his rel name. It is Ok to me both.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 09:55, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Abbas Mirza

Hello Babak. I did some research on the problem. According to the Royal Ark website, Abbas Mirza indeed had a son called Iskander Mirza (see (y) in the list of Abbas Mirza's children on that page). It seems improbable, however, that this is the confusion with the Georgian Eskander Mirza because he was 16 years older than Abbas Mirza. Perhaps we should create a Disambiguation page to settle the issue. Best regards, --Kober 11:16, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes indeed. Also I would appreciate if you could afford me with info about Abbas Mirza and his children. I know from the first hand that some of their offspring say we have Russian Roots. I assume that they have Caucasian roots (maybe were called Kniaz by the Russians?), This problem has intrigued me and the Persian books untill now could not give me any answers.If You come to Iran I will bring you to the (ruins) of their palaces with their pictures on their walls. Also you can meet the princely offsprings: Blondish, mostly with green eyes. They could be Georgian but regarding their appearance could be more proabbly Ossetian or Circassian. Do you know if he had any wives from these regions, or his children married nobles of that region? --Babakexorramdin (talk) 11:35, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to your question, I’ve discovered the things in which I have long been inetersted in. According to the same Royal Ark website, Abbas Mirza had eight wives, most of them of Qajar or Turkic origin: none of them seems to be Georgian. Of all these marriages, he fathered twenty-six sons and twenty-two daughters. One of Abbas Mirza’s sons, namely Bahman Mirza (1811-1886), was exiled to Russian-held Georgia in 1848. None of his seven wives seems to be Georgian. Bahman’s children were indeed granted the title of Knyaz Persidsky (with the style of His or Her Illustrious Highness) by the Russian tsar in 1886. His male descendats mostly engaged in Imperial Russian military service and intermarried with some Muslim noble houses of Russia; some of them died during the Russian Revolution and Bolshevik terror, while others returned to Iran with their families or emigrated to Europe and the U.S., where they are reported to live to this day (e.g., Susu Farmanfarmaian, Professor at Colorado University). Some of them seem to reside also in the Republic of Azerbaijan; for example, Suraya Khanum Qajar (grand-grandaughter of Abbas Mirza) who is an opera singer and National Artist of Azerbaijan.

Being of a relatively remote (around 1860s) Iranian (perhaps Persian) ancestry on my mother’s side, I’ve long been inetersted in Iranian-Georgian geneaological links. Unfortunately, the published material is extremely scarce, and I’ve not yet found time to look into archives while the family memory has already faded.--Kober 12:48, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I know one of these "Russian" princes who is born in 1930 and whose parents were born in Iran too. please send me an email at the same Id at yahoo. I cannot reveal personal names here. BTW member of Qajar family doesnot necessarily means Turkic. This is a lie which panturkists spread. Qajars were a dynsatic family and they married with nobles of whatever ethncity rather than keep themselves purely Turkic (that they werent any way). --Babakexorramdin (talk) 13:11, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I know that Qajar does not mean Turkic. By saying "most of them of Qajar or Turkic origin", I mean that some of Abbas Mirza's wives were of the same Qajar clan and others came from the families which were Turkic but not directly related to the Qajar dynasty. I'll soon email you. --Kober 13:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I see forward to read your email. You will see which Iranians have these Caucasian roots. Untill now my findings say that the Caucasian root was most probably of Ossetian of Kartli! They look more fairskinned and blondish than georgians and they can go either with Georgian, Russian and even Circassian. This explains the ambiguity about their ethnic origins. unfortunately not much written but more fieldwork/ investigation, talk talk and finding evidences. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 13:28, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Hello, Babakexorramdin. I have not yet received any email, unfortunately. Best regards, --Kober 13:44, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

check it again, I sent it again.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 16:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Combat.

"1. To oppose in battle; fight against."

I suggest you read the article and fully understand it before making further controversial (and wrong) claims. John Nevard (talk) 05:34, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

see your own dictionary. It shows that the USA was a combatant in Iran-Iraq war exactly because of your own definbition. USA invaded Iranian territory and bombed Iranian territory. In addition brought down a civilian airliner by military instruments. USA was a warring party indeed.

combat

SYLLABICATION: com·bat PRONUNCIATION: km-bt, kmbt VERB: Inflected forms: com·bat·ed or com·bat·ted, com·bat·ing or com·bat·ting, com·bats or com·bats

TRANSITIVE VERB: 1. To oppose in battle; fight against. 2. To oppose vigorously; struggle against. See synonyms at oppose. INTRANSITIVE VERB: To engage in fighting; contend or struggle. NOUN: (kmbt) Fighting, especially armed battle; strife. See synonyms at conflict. ADJECTIVE: (kmbt)1. Of or relating to combat: flew 50 combat missions. 2. Intended for use or deployment in combat: combat boots; combat troops. ETYMOLOGY: French combattre, from Old French, from Late Latin combattere : Latin com-, com- + Latin battere, to beat (alteration of battuere).

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by the Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

CONTENTS · INDEX · ILLUSTRATIONS · BIBLIOGRAPHIC RECORD

--Babakexorramdin (talk) 10:18, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Keep this debate on the Iran-Iraq War talk page guys, you're both violating WP:CIVIL at the moment. Ryan4314 (talk) 16:33, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

bad eh? when an admin violtes the rules :)))--Babakexorramdin (talk) 20:56, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

providing that John Nevard is indeed an admin of course, he could be a good one but shouldn't intermingle with subjects he does not know sufficiently--Babakexorramdin (talk) 21:08, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

You should stop making personal attacks on User:John Nevard, it tarnishes you and therefore the edits you make i.e. When you make an edit other people will check your edit history & talk page, and when they see the arguments you've been involved in they'll assume you're a troll and treat you accordingly. Which would be a real shame as you've got a lot of potential and we need more good editors on the Iran-Iraq war article.

If someone else makes an attack on you, try to ignore it or even better quote the policy; "Comment on content, not on the contributor" ;) Ryan4314 (talk) 01:31, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Basically you are right but his attitude is truely insulting. Usually I comment on the content but some arrogant people keep repeating themselves disregarding all arguments in the factual debate --Babakexorramdin (talk) 06:58, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Well then you've got to ask yourself "did you come here to improve the quality of articles involving Iran on the English Misplaced Pages?" or "did you come here to argue with other editors and tarnish your name, before your editing career has even got started?" Ryan4314 (talk) 13:08, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I am here for facts and reasons and oppose people who lie and spread nonsense for their agenda--Babakexorramdin (talk) 23:45, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

hello

I added a picture of an Esfahani carpet trader to the Persian people page. What do you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hello10242 (talk • contribs) 00:54, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Its Ok however the waterpipes are now forbidden in Iran since last year!--Babakexorramdin (talk) 23:45, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

USA as a combatant

Mate, please, I'm asking you nicely, please don't put the USA as a combatant whilst the RFC is still going on. I know how you feel about it, but think about it like this, there's no rush to put it up there, it'll "still be there tomorrow" so to speak. If the consensus decides it should go up there, then it will do eventually and no one will be able to say it shouldn't. I know you're concerned about how an RFC works, it works by a consensus and not by votes, so you don't have to worry.

I honestly am try to sound friendly, it'd be nice if you could message me back please to say you understand me. I see you're from Iran, I speak Farsi too, although I can't write much :) Ryan4314 (talk) 04:13, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Dear Rysan I appreciate your efforts in this regard and do understand what you say, but I think when facts are there there is no need for deliberate consensus. What it looks like is that those people there neglect each single fact. It is like "oh we all know that milk is white but we say in this case that it is black. " For an outsider it seems only strange but knowing their affiliation it makes it understandable why they act like this.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 08:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad you wrote back :) on Misplaced Pages, a consensus begins when there is what Misplaced Pages calls a "dispute", even if only 1 person disagrees with everyone else. It's wikipedia's way too ensure everyone's opinion is heard.

Believe me I am definately not a friend of the U.S.A, but I'm afraid it doesn't come down to "facts" as you say. It comes down to Misplaced Pages's policy, specifically this one, where it says;

"combatant1/combatant2/combatant3 – optional – the parties participating in the conflict. This is most commonly the countries whose forces took part in the conflict; however, larger groups (such as alliances or international organizations) or smaller ones (such as particular units, formations, or groups) may be indicated if doing so improves reader understanding."

When I say "it doesn't come down to facts" I mean, we all know what the USA did during the war (there's even a whole article about it!) and no one can deny it. Whether the USA is listed as a combatant is of little consequence, "combatant" is just a name. I mean, people read the facts we write down and decide for themselves how bad the U.S is anyway.

Do you understand what I mean? I hope you know I do agree with you, but I am must try and follow Misplaced Pages's policy first. :) Ryan4314 (talk) 18:40, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

the thing s that those anti-Iranianist Americans are trying to intimidate us by their power of numbers. For them is wikipedia policy another war which they can win by force and disrespecting all established rules. Even they can change the rules in a way which serves their interets better.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 19:57, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

You worry too much my friend ;) If it was true that there was some American conspiracy on Misplaced Pages, the "U.S. support for Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war" would be deleted and we would be blocked. Of course there are anti-Irani Americans on Misplaced Pages, but none of them run it! You see in order to become an "admin" you have to undergo a RFA where other admins check your edit history and see if you are neutral, before letting you become an admin. Ryan4314 (talk) 05:05, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

My experience is that in the USA those who have their mouth full of discrimination and anti-isms discriminate more. A lot of anti-Iranianists are not among the rednecks but among the socaled liberal New Yorkers--Babakexorramdin (talk) 13:13, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Yea I know, the West is full of hypocritical "political correctness". Ryan4314 (talk) 15:26, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Sangiseri language

please give me example of similarity georgians and sangesari languages. baa sepaas--Ashkan h (talk) 16:32, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Well that is exactly my point. I needed references. Though it is certainly possible that georgians were settled in Sangesar in the 17th century, I still need references which say this. TGeorgians were settled in mazandaran and there was a settlement of heir in Abbas Abad near Shahrud. So it is plausible that they were settled in Sangesar too. The Sangesari member of ours probably refers to the sangesari oral history which is OK to me, but wikipedia here works with more rigid sources, thats why we need either a written source or formulate the sentence better. I should also add that there is not necessary that languages be similar in order t can speak of ethnic intermingling. Language were passed by the female line, and in this case Georgians migrants were predominantly male, as they were soldiers and military. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 17:31, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Resources of the Caspian Sea

Am astonished of your statement! Please see . KInd regards, --BF 00:06, 20 January 2008 (UTC).

Yes this is what I say, while there was a contract diving 50- 50 % after the collapse they do notagree on this. Then Iran came with a formula of each 5 litoral get 20% but they want t give Iran only 11-13 % which is unacceptable. The best thing is 50% for Iran and 50% to Russia as an heir of the USSR, if Russia wants o give the litoral states their share, each get 12,5 % , but then I ask why nt divinding on 15 republics? Because the whole USSR and not only the litoral states got 50%.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 10:04, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

On using "Arvand Rud" or "Shatt al-Arab"

Hi, Babakexorramdin :-) I notice that you have reverted my edits to Abadan, Khorramshahr & Persian Gulf, replacing the Arabic form Shatt al-Arab (which happens to be the standard English usage) with the Farsi one Arvand Rud (much less used in the English language).

In your edit summary you give three reasons for the reverts, namely that "Arvandrud is pretty common. If yoiu use it becomes more common. moreover abafan is an Iranian city" (sic). However, none of these reasons is a valid one for making the editorial decision of using the Farsi name in the English Misplaced Pages:

• Arvandrud is pretty common. First, it is not that common. Although the Farsi form is indeed used sometimes, Shatt al-Arab undoubtedly is the standard English usage (see examples of usage in English and on usage in major reliable English-language sources).

Second, our editorial practices call for using the standard English form, the most common, the widely used one, and not any "pretty common name".

Our naming convention on using English guideline clearly states that "f you are talking about a use the most commonly used English version of the name , as you would find it in other encyclopedias and reference works."

Our naming convention on geographic names also mentions that "hen a widely accepted English name, in a modern context, exists for a place, we should use it."

There are two main reasons for having this editorial approach: it enhances consistency within the English Misplaced Pages, and its helps our readers by using the names and forms with which they're more familiar, the ones they're used to find when reading books, newspapers, magazines or watching TV. It's the principle of least astonishment :-)

Additionaly, as the naming convention on geographic names also mentions, "y following English usage, we also avoid arguments about what a place ought to be called, instead asking the less contentious question, what it is called. If English usually calls a place by a given name, use it."

Since the English language usually calls this waterway by the name Shat al-Arab, so do we :-)

• If you use it becomes more common. This call to promote the use of a certain name or form is the exact opposite of our editorial approach. Misplaced Pages is descriptive, not prescriptive: we restrict ourselves to passively reflect the names or forms commonly used in the English language, instead of actively promote the names or forms we believe should be used.

If anybody wants to promote the adoption of the Farsi name Arvand Rud by the English language, they're free to do so in a vast array of ways :-) But not on the English Misplaced Pages. Misplaced Pages is not a venue for advocacy.

• Moreover, X is an Iranian city/river/province/theme/etc. This factor is simply not contemplated by our current editorial practices: we write following common English usages, in accordance to the policies & guidelines mentioned above, irrespective of the "nationality" to which the article is related. We aim to write neutral, fair, unbiased articles about Iran; but we also aim to write them in English.

These agreed editorial practices, described in policies and guidelines, should be followed. If you disagree with any of them, the proper course of action certainly isn't to simply ignore it, but to propose the desired modifications instead.

So, in accordance to the policies & guidelines mentioned above and the result of discussion in the Shatt al-Arab talk page, and having explained at lenght my reasons, I have reverted your edits to the three articles.

If you still think that the Farsi form Arvand Rud should be used in those articles, I ask you not to revert back, and to discuss the issue with me instead: I'm sure we can solve the issue by dialogue :-) Feel free to ask me any question you may have about this issue, or any other.

To keep discussions coherent, I would appreciate if you could answer here, in your talk page, please. I will see your post :-) Best regards, Ev (talk) 14:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Persia/Iran

Dear Kamran, Thanks for your note. My reasons are clear. 'Persia' is Western name of Iran and in various occasions because of historical and cultural reasons it's better that we use that and keep it alive (in my opinion). Please take a look to this piece; http://www.payvand.com/news/05/sep/1166.html 'Persia' is still valid and legal.

BTW we live in a same country! Hope to meet you.

Yours Pejman--Pejman (talk) 09:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

>>> Oh, I thought you were living in the USA (especially California), because there a lot of of Iranians go crazy for Persia and are ashamed of being Iranian. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 20:51, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

On the photograph of Majlis of Iran

With reference to our earlier, less-than-pleasant, exchanges (), just wish to let you know that I have just noticed that they have now deleted the main photograph of Majlis of Iran. For completeness, I am not going to do anything about it, as I believe that I have already done what I could have done. Perhaps you wish to raise the issue with the people who might care. Kind regards, --BF 22:55, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Photo delete Iranian majles. They have the polciy of deleting pocitures so those with links to the main media will have a monopoly on provinding pictures. I know no Iranians who care. Unfortunately--Babakexorramdin (talk) 09:55, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

It is the saddest thing of all to know that there are people who call themselves Iranians (as should be evident, it is not obligatory to call oneself Iranian) but do not care about their Parliament. This applies to all people, not only to "Iranians", who do not value their democratic institutions. I suppose Sattar Khan, Baqer Khan, Mirza Jahangir Khan Sur-e Esrafil, Malek al-Motakallemin, Sayyed Jamal od-Din Esfahani and a host of other people who fought (and some died) for the Majles will be turning in their graves by hearing your statement. --BF 12:30, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

What you say is true. A few intellectuals in Iran fight/fought for democracy. Iranian masses like elswehere are just passive consumers--Babakexorramdin (talk) 13:30, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Whatever the case may be, if you know some of those "intellectuals", please let them know that they should upload an image of Majles to Misplaced Pages. --BF 13:57, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Template:User GEAL

A tag has been placed on Template:User GEAL requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{transclusionless}}</noinclude>).

Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:04, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Template:User Iranlove

A tag has been placed on Template:User Iranlove requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{transclusionless}}</noinclude>).

Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:09, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

BIG FAVOUR

Hey Babakexorramdin. I just wondered if the next time you go to Amsterdam could you visit the Allard Pierson Museum and take a picture of this object for wikipedia. I will be very grateful. There may also be other Iran-related objects. I hope that people are allowed to take pictures of their exhibits. Anyway, it will be a big help and a contribution to Misplaced Pages.Ardeshire Babakan (talk) 19:49, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I will see if one is allowed to take pictures, but honsetly I don't think so.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 21:42, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Award

		The Original Barnstar
		Babak Jan, thanks for all your works in improving Iran related topics. Also I greatly admire your knowledge of the region and Misplaced Pages is definitely better with your presence. Nawruz Shomaa Khwajasta Baada. Khodaavand Bozorg Yar o Yaavaretaan. alidoostzadeh (talk) 03:19, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Re:Undiladze of Persia

Hello Babak. Sorry for a late reply. Encyclopaedia Iranica mentions both Undiladzes as beglarbeg. I'll also check their title in Georgian sources. Best, --Kober 10:56, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Please help on Mazandarani language

Parthava is reverting anything he does not agree with. I have a serious problem with describing Mazandarani Persian and Standard Persian as "mutually unintelligible." "Unintelligible," to an English speaker, connotes a complete disconnect and differentiation between the languages. For example, Arabic and Chinese are mutually unintelligible. English and Greek are mutually unintelligible.

However, Mazandarani Persian and Standard Persian, while considerably different, are not completely "unintelligible." For example, a person who only speaks Mazandarani Persian can still communicate with a person who only speaks Standard Persian using mutually shared vocabulary, as well as close terms like "berar" and "baradar" or "te dast dard nakane" and "dastet dard nakone." In contrast, in mutually unintelligible languages, such as Arabic and Chinese, the persons who spoke Arabic only and Chinese only could not communicate at all with each other using their own languages.

Your attention to this matter is greatly appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.5.250.146 (talk) 21:45, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I do not know about Amir Taheri. Parthava is a bit rude but his take on Mazandarani language is closer to reality than that of 68.... With all due respect I also do not see anything positive in the envovlement by a Nigerian in such matters as regional lnaguges of Iran. Subjects which requires expertise to the native level. I also do not uderstand why he is so anti-Georgian when he himself (in chat) states that he is a Georgian Mazandarani. But: Mazandarani is not a persian dialect. Though stating that it is unintelligible with standard persian is also a big statement. Intelligibility is a word which has gradual and relative meaning. It should be said mazandarani is a Northwestern Iranian language while standard Persian is a South Western one. I think you should use this phrase as I said. About Gilaki instead of Mazandarani. I have heard this also from another native Mazandarani that they called their language Gilaki before, though it was different than the language of Gilan. I will ask another Mazandarani though. Finanlly I should add that I am not someone who comes to edit on demand. I have my own intellectual integrity. I am not the paid kind of pesudeo-scholar who writes anything for a certain agenda. I only write the truth. I am not much into propaganda. If I can help with editing and clarifying the truth I will, but I wont undo edits by people, only because they are rude or so...--Babakexorramdin (talk) 12:46, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Let me clarify. I do not want to debate whether Mazandarani Persian is a dialect of Standard Persian or not. The definition of a "dialect" is not just an "accent." Dialects can be significantly different from each other. But they are still extremely similar dialects of a common language (Persian). But let's leave that aside. My main problem is using the totally incorrect and unacceptable word "unintelligible" to describe the linguistic relationship between Mazandarani Persian and Standard Persian. The langauges are extremely closely related and are in many ways mutually intelligible, which does not mean they are the same.

As for reverters..... There are two people reverting: 1 = Parthava, an Iranian who is not fluent in English, who is deleting sources and references which contradict his claim that Mazandarani Persian is "unintelligible" to a speaker of Standard Persian. 2 = Ankimai is a Nigerian who stalks my IP address all over Misplaced Pages and undo's my edits on all issues, no matter what they are. He/She does not know anything about Iran or Mazandaran. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.5.250.146 (talk) 17:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

For sources showing Mazandarani (and other regional variations of the Persian langauge) as dialects of Standard Persian, please see:

^ Le Coq, P., 1989, “Les dialects Caspiens et les dialects du nord- ouest de l, Iran,” in Schmitt, R. (ed), Compendium Linguarum Iranicarum, pp.296- 312, Wiesbadan. ^ Melgounof, G., 1868, “ Essai sur les dialects du Masenderan et du Guilanla pronunciation locale”, Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenlandischen Geselaschaft, vol.xxII, pp. 195-224. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.5.250.146 (talk) 17:56, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Mazandarani is not a persian dialect, it is an Iranian language belonging to other sub-branch of Western Iranian languages. There is no such a thing as Mazandarani Persian. Nor do I see the sources saying this. May I ask you whether you live in the USA? because that might clarify the confusion here. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 20:46, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I am sure that 68.5.250.146 (talk) has never seen these sources, let alone read them. He simply copied and pasted them (because they contain the word 'dialects', probably) from this list - without realizing that he copied and pasted the typos, too ("Wiesbadan", "Geselaschaft"). This guy is a troll (have a look at the edit history of Amir Taheri, please). Regards, Ankimai (talk) 23:12, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Ankimai is the troll. S/he is a defender of Amir Taheri, a neo-con backed anti-Iranian propaganda writer who says Iran should be bombed. She's not even an Iranian, so I have no idea how she could possibly make credible judgments on Amir Taheri, let alone the intricacies of classifying the language of Mazandaran!

Well I do not know him/her, but I see that she/he has always reverting your edits, no matter what. my advice: do not do the same, do it only when you have a point to make.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 17:13, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

to Soundofmusicals

If a fictional name doesnt matter why you deleted the Persian name? Why in heaven's name? --Babakexorramdin (talk) 12:30, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Sinbad's name is not the main point of the article - and for that reason should not be the subject of contentious POV edits. Edits should also, incidentally, be in clear standard English. The current form is better, with both Arabic and Persian names. This doesn't try to make chauvinistic points that have no part in an encyclopedia. The thesis that all Middle Eastern culture is basically Persian, which some "pro-Irani" editors seem to espouse may well be a legitimate point of view (POV) but it is certainly not a neutral one (NPOV) - nor does it belong in an encyclopedia. Soundofmusicals (talk) 08:29, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Why did you delete the Persian name if you are not a chauvinist yourself?--Babakexorramdin (talk) 08:31, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I read what you had to say carefully, and tried to respond sensibly - if you are not prepared to offer the same courtesy there is no point in any one discussing anything with you. The edit you object to removed chauvinistic matter - it does not follow that the editor is chauvinistic (look it up in a dictionary). Incidentally - read the article as it now stands - what do you still object to? Soundofmusicals (talk) 08:43, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

dear soundofmusicals I try to be nice to you, but it seems that whatever obne says you are here to oppose anything Iranian. 1- You neglect Cambridge history and even manipulate the information extracted from it 2- you deleted the Persian name. I asked you why, and all what you are doing is namescalling. Alas....--Babakexorramdin (talk) 08:48, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

If you're being nice here I'd hate to be on your bad side! I repeat - have a look at the article now!!Soundofmusicals (talk) 08:53, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

see below.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 09:00, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

to Soundofmusicals about his/her personal attacks.

Dear friend if you were fingerpointing at me for being chauvinist, I can say the same about you. Your insistence in reverting anything Iranian is truely disturbing. You even manipulate the information from the re;liable scholarly sources. Why are you doing this? --Babakexorramdin (talk) 08:30, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

You state that I "insist on reverting anything Iranian" which is palpable nonsense, and that I manipulate scholarly information, which is plain stupid. This is a totally uncalled for personal attack and I think I should have an immediate unreserved apology.Soundofmusicals (talk) 08:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

what you are doing is a big SIN in the Academic world. You are not the one who manipulates the information from cited sources. That is not done. And I do not see why you always attack and insult people whith whom you do not agree?--Babakexorramdin (talk) 09:01, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Moved this to more appropriate place

OK perhaps we have been talking at cross purposes a bit.

I think the edit of mine you actually objected to was my edit to "Sinbad is a Persian word hinting at the stories Iranian origin."

Now I did not intenionally "manipulate anything here - and I certainly did not "delete the Persian name".

Its just that this does not actually make sense in English. Not criticising you for not having perfect Engish - it is certain much better than my (non-existant) Farsi. But this IS an English language encyclopedia.

One posible edit would be : Sinbad is a Persian word hinting at the story's Iranian origin.

The snag is that it is NOT a story, but a story cycle - and as the rest of the article has been discussing up to this point the different stories have origins from a good number of sources.

Another edit might be Sinbad is a Persian word hinting at the stories' Iranian origin.

But again - the article as a whole says the different stories originate from all over - the Persian origin of some of them is already discussed.

My edit was Sinbad is a Persian word hinting at an Iranian origin for at least some of the stories.

This is good English, makes sense, and is consistent with the rest of the article. It is certainly NOT a chauvinistic attack on Iranians or any of the other things you have been saying!

Ok let me be clear. Those statements in the text were not mine. You are welcome to edit their grammar as long as you think it is appropriate. The problem was that you delteed the name Sindbad in persian and manipulated the citation from the Camridge history. And then it is me who should be blamed? Thats not fair. PS: It is Persian and not Farsi, the dicussion is a way too long for here.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 10:53, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Sinbad_the_Sailor&diff=198571072&oldid=198228053

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Sinbad_the_Sailor&diff=198768570&oldid=198594549

--Babakexorramdin (talk) 10:56, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I naturally defer to your calling your own language "Persian" rather than "Farsi" - you obviously know which is preferable far better than I. I have seen both - and suspected they were probably different transliterations of the same (Persian) word, and that "Farsi" may have been a more accurate transliteration. But as you say - not something worth quibbling about - especially since I'm sure you know much more about it than me!

I was not (intentionally anyway) "blaming" or attacking you or any of your fellow Iranian editors, although I would point out that you need (at times, anyway) to temper your (very proper and commendable) love of your country, and your desire to see its (undeniably glorious) cultural heritage receive its fair due in Misplaced Pages with a modicum of good manners, restraint, and scholarliness. I have no idea on what grounds you base statements like I do not see why you always attack and insult people whith whom you do not agree? - have a look at my record on Wiki if you must - how many times have I lost my cool and how many times NOT. Then have a look at your own (including the message below, left for you by someone else.)

Anyway - so far as this most unedifying exchange is down to me I apologise, and in so far as it is down to you I forgive you. Can't say fairer than that. May we work together in a rational, friendly way on any other article where our interests coincide (especially if we happen to disagree - out of the clash differing opinions comes the spark of truth). If not, I hope it won't be because of me.

By the way - read the introduction to the article as it now stands!! Soundofmusicals (talk) 05:20, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

OOPS!! Someone else has deleted the Persian AND the Arabic names - and totally reverted my attempted compromise! Oh well, it happens!! Just so long as you have a look at the history and don't blame me!!! Soundofmusicals (talk) 05:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello, LOL now you see how much opposition the Iranians have to endure, and you see that the assertivieness of Iranians is nothing compared to the amount of hatred to which they are exposed to--Babakexorramdin (talk) 11:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Cool it

This is way over the top, and Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks is enforceable by block. Moreschi (talk) 22:45, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Dorood

Salam Babak Jan, Happy Nawruz. I think we can expand Persian-Georgia relations and even make it to a featured article. The article is here: ]. Definitely can use your expertise. Also try to stay cool in Misplaced Pages ;) and I understand your POV, but sometimes in Misplaced Pages you have to cool it. I usually take it out by lifting weights or something. Take care --alidoostzadeh (talk) 15:29, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I try my best but it takes too much time and energy to counter those people who have made a fun at chasing me and reverting everything I do. It is sad that some of these people are making WP policies too. Not a good example to follow. Also we should contact Kober. He knows a lot about Iran- Georgia relations--Babakexorramdin (talk) 05:41, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Mazandarani is a dialect of Persian. No question about it.

Babak I think the problem is your misunderstanding of the definition of the word "dialect." I noticed in most Persian-English dictionaries they translate "dialect" as "lahje" which is an incorrect translation of the word, and perhaps the reason for your misunderstanding. "Lahje" means "accent" in English and Mazandarani Persian is not a "lahje" or "accent" of Standard Persian.

However, Mazandarani Persian is a "dialect" of Standard Persian. Please see the definition of the English word "dialect" from dictionary.com below. I am sure if you are neutral and objective you will agree that the relationship between Mazandarani and Persian is best described as a "dialect" after you read the below definition.

di·a·lect –noun

1. Linguistics. a variety of a language that is distinguished from other varieties of the same language by features of phonology, grammar, and vocabulary, and by its use by a group of speakers who are set off from others geographically or socially.

2. a provincial, rural, or socially distinct variety of a language that differs from the standard language, esp. when considered as substandard.

3. a special variety of a language: The literary dialect is usually taken as the standard language.

4. a language considered as one of a group that have a common ancestor: Persian, Latin, and English are Indo-European dialects. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dialect

1. W. Eilers (1983), "Iran and Mesopotamia" in E. Yarshater, The Cambridge History of Iran, vol. 3, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pg 497
2. W. Eilers (1983), "Iran and Mesopotamia" in E. Yarshater, The Cambridge History of Iran, vol. 3, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pg 497
3. W. Eilers (1983), "Iran and Mesopotamia" in E. Yarshater, The Cambridge History of Iran, vol. 3, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pg 497
4. W. Eilers (1983), "Iran and Mesopotamia" in E. Yarshater, The Cambridge History of Iran, vol. 3, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pg 497