Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:40, 16 August 2005

Isn't it a bit anachronistic to refer to Linus as the "Pope" throughout this article? I mean, even the office of bishop wasn't formalized yet in the first century. It's fair to say that as the second leader of the Roman church, he is counted as the second "Pope," but he sure didn't make any claims to be the father of the entire church at that time. That came quite a bit later. Fishal 02:42, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Why has this article been classified as a stub? It is quite comprehensive and there is not really much more information which can be added. --Funtriviafan 07:52, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Preceeded Peter??

I am reverting it is probable that Saint Linus was in fact the first Pope
I am reverting Linus was the son of Caratacus, Llyn being his Celtic name.
I am unaware of any evidence for these claims--ClemMcGann 02:00, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Preceeded Peter??

I recommend restoring it is probable that Saint Linus was in fact the first Pope

2 Timothy 4:21 Paul is writing to Linus in Rome. Linus was active as a Bishop in Rome (on Pauls instructions) before Peter arrived at Rome, and was undoubtably one of the Christians in Rome both Peter and Paul desired to see. It is only Roman Catholic tradition that teaches otherwise. This is understandable of course, because who wants to belong to the Church Linus built. Unfortunately tradition is not factually correct. The Church made the switch in the order of Popes to ensure Peter was the first Bishop of Rome, and I've heard some Roman Catholics concede as much.

Further corroboration of Linus' appointment as the First Bishop of Rome can be found in the writings of St. Peter himself. His words, preserved in the "Apostolic Constitutions" (Bk. I, Chap. 46) read: ' 'Concerning those Bishops who have been ordained in our lifetime, we make known to you that they are these; of Antioch Eudius, ordained by me, Peter; of the Church of Rome, Linus, brother of Claudia, was first ordained by Paul, and after Linus' death, Clemens, the second ordained by me, Peter. In another statement Peter affirms that Linus was a Briton, son of a royal king. Irenaeus, a disciple of Polycarp (Born cir. A.D. 130) and later Bishop of Smyrna, also confirms Linus' appointment. He wrote: "The apostles, having founded and built up the Church at Rome, committed the ministry of its supervision to Linus. This is the Linus mentioned by Paul in his Epistle to Timothy." (Irenaei Opera Lib. III. C.I.).

I've seen the comments that Irenaeus' comments are also disputed, however Irenaeus is not the only one who draws that connection. No one would dispute Peter's words, or else much more is in doubt than simply Linus' lineage.

Lack of awareness on your part is not sufficent, I think, to justify exclusion of the info. At least it should be mentioned that the sequence itself is in doubt.

--WikiRat 02:00, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Preceeded Peter??

I haven't read about who came first, Peter or Linus, and so can't enter the argument. It seems reasonable (though I suppose controversial), but I am fairly certain about Linus being the son of Caratacus. BTW his name was "Lleyn" - NOT "Llyn" as someone wrote above. I also read somewhere that his brother Cyllinus may have inherited the Silurian throne.

Dear Wiki Rat, Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia. That mean that it is a repository of existing knowledge. It is not a place for original research. see Misplaced Pages:No original research. You have some theories. You might be "fairly certain about Linus being the son of Caratacus", but unless you can quote an authorative source, it cannot be added to Misplaced Pages. Your theory that Linus preceeded Peter is original. Again you need an authorative source. You can't use your interpretation of scripture. If you can find an article in a peer-reviewed academic journal, then perhaps it can be added. Until then, I'm reverting.--ClemMcGann 09:27, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

--- ClemMcGann, Thank you for pointing out the purpose of this site. However lets be clear - It was 131.137.245.199 who is uncertain about Linus’ lineage, and not I. I am certain about both facts in contention here. Regardless, Although I don’t agree this is a theory because I think British research on the matter is fairly good, I do agree I haven’t done enough to make my case. I will try to track back some better sources.

However, on the issue of the order of Church appointments, I have cited no less than Saint Peter himself as my source. Since this is an encyclopaedia, as you point out, it should not be the subject of favoured theological doctrine.

Peter’s words are “original source” and should weigh far better than “a peer-reviewed academic journal”. Again, check out Peter’s words in Apostolic Constitutions" (Bk. I, Chap. 46) where Peter himself, comments on the order of appointments.

If you care to dispute Peter’s words as non-authoritative than you have a much larger task ahead of you than simply reverting my contributions to this article. You’ll have to start editing all articles on Catholicism, Early Church History, or Theology that may have been influence by Peter’s teachings.

Again, lack of awareness on your part (or perhaps the adoption of a favoured theological slant) should not suffice for exclusion of information that is part of the public record, and presented by a fairly “authoritative source” (assuming you’d Agree that Peter’s words ought to carry some weight).