| Revision as of 17:39, 23 May 2008 editJakew (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers17,277 edits →List of Avatar: The Last Airbender major secondary characters: comment← Previous edit | Revision as of 03:14, 24 May 2008 edit undoA Nobody (talk | contribs)53,000 edits replyNext edit → | ||
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| **Actually the keep arguments were much better grounded in policy than the delete arguments which were mostly of an "I don't like it" nature. Clear lack of definitive consensus. Sincerely, --<font face="Times New Roman">]</font><sup>'']''</sup> 16:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC) | **Actually the keep arguments were much better grounded in policy than the delete arguments which were mostly of an "I don't like it" nature. Clear lack of definitive consensus. Sincerely, --<font face="Times New Roman">]</font><sup>'']''</sup> 16:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC) | ||
| ***Flatly stating that they were better grounded in policy isn't terribly helpful, LGRdC. Perhaps you could explain what these policy-based arguments were? You listed above some arguments based upon ] (an essay), ] (a proposed guideline that, according to you, , so it is puzzling that you should now refer to it), and ] (a style guideline). Where are the comparable arguments to those regarding a "lack of secondary sources" (ie., ] issues)? ] (]) 17:39, 23 May 2008 (UTC) | ***Flatly stating that they were better grounded in policy isn't terribly helpful, LGRdC. Perhaps you could explain what these policy-based arguments were? You listed above some arguments based upon ] (an essay), ] (a proposed guideline that, according to you, , so it is puzzling that you should now refer to it), and ] (a style guideline). Where are the comparable arguments to those regarding a "lack of secondary sources" (ie., ] issues)? ] (]) 17:39, 23 May 2008 (UTC) | ||
| ****They may be essays and and guidelines, but at least they're valid. The thing is there are nevertheless no ''valid'' polcy or guideline based reasons for outright deletion. For merging and redirecting without deletion, maybe. For a no consensus closure, okay. But not for a definitive deletion. And flatly stating that the delete arguments were better grounded in policy, when I see nothing convincing to that end, isn't terribly helpful. Best, --<font face="Times New Roman">]</font><sup>'']''</sup> 03:14, 24 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
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Revision as of 03:14, 24 May 2008
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18 May 2008
Halloweentown (film) (closed)
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| The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it. |
History-only undeletion -- currently a bad recreate, then a redirect to the wrong page. According to the log, it has been speedy deleted twice recently:
Unfortunately, there are a lot of links to this popular film page. My 'tween nieces are upset. Although I don't know much about it, I'm sure it can be improved to the level of the other related film pages. I'm sick in bed this weekend, and I'll try to at least fix it to a minimal level using the prior content.
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| The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
List of Avatar: The Last Airbender major secondary characters
- List of Avatar: The Last Airbender major secondary characters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)
Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Avatar: The Last Airbender major secondary characters (2nd nomination) closed as "delete"; however, I think it was more a "no consensus" per my reasoning at User_talk:Sandstein#Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion.2FList_of_Avatar:_The_Last_Airbender_major_secondary_characters_.282nd_nomination.29. Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 19:29, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
- Comment' wouldn't it be better just to somewhat expand the description in the List of Avatar: The Last Airbender characters ? DGG (talk) 20:38, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not opposed to such thing, but to do so, we could restore this article, merge what's relevant over and then redirect it, even if it's a protected redirect. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 23:31, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
- Restore history and leave as a redirect Editors can very easily look at old version on the history to find the information they need, and even make a link to the preferred old version on their user page to use as a bookmark --Enric Naval (talk) 13:08, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
- Doesn't that kind of defy the point of deleting an article? Guest9999 (talk) 02:44, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
- In this case, as the article is not a hoax, not a copy vio, not libel, has a good deal of support for being kept, has a redirect location, etc., there is no real "point" in deleting the article. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 02:57, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
- Feel free to create that redirect now. But, per WP:NOT#WEBHOST, we don't host content that has been determined to be outside our project scope, no matter how convenient it may be. Sandstein 06:29, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
- I'm asking for a redirect without deletion; the content was not satisfactorily determined outside of our project scope. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 16:13, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse deletion as deleting admin. No argument has been made why my closure was wrong. I'm not opposed to a restoration of the content so as to allow a very selective merger, once it has been demonstrated that there is consensus for such a merger. But the point of a deletion is to remove content from sight, and I don't see why the community's consensus for that outcome should not be respected here. Sandstein 06:27, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
- There was no clear or overwhelming consensus for deletion, though. As indicated many of the deletion arguments were weak and there were sufficient keep and merge arguments for a no consensus. A merge and redirect without deletion would be a fair compromise. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 16:13, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
- Comment I'm afraid I don't understand the nominator's (LGRdC) arguments re whether the closure was correct. The reasoning presented is presumably this diff, and seems to be that if a) the article is not a hoax, libel, or a copyright violation, and b) there isn't unanimous consensus to delete, then we should default to keep. Do I understand the argument correctly? Jakew (talk) 14:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
- It's a combination of that and that in the discussion many of the reasons for deleting were weak, while there were sufficiently strong arguments to keep or merge that there simply was no consensus for outright deletion. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 16:13, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse deletion. Reading the discussion, I'm afraid I can't agree with LGRdC's analysis. It's true that there were some weak arguments, for deleting as well as for keeping. However, the strongest policy-based arguments, identified by the closer, seemed to centre on the redundancy as well as the "lack of secondary sources about the characters" (note in particular the influence of comments by Collectonian and Graevemoore on the discussion). This wasn't a straightforward AfD, but in my view the closer read consensus correctly. Jakew (talk) 17:14, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
- When there are strong arguments to keep we have a "no consensus", not a delete. The two arguments you cite were actualy relatively weak. Claiming it's redundant with another article is really cause for redirect, not outright deletion. Claiming Misplaced Pages is a work in progress and that the article can be recreated suggests that it has potential and is also not really a reason for deletion. Many of the other deletes were outright votes or "per nom" in nature. If you remove those who therefore just voted add in those who worked on the article in the keep category, coupled with those who argued in the AfD in December that closed as Keep, then it is apparent that consensus in this case is not clear. Reasons for keeping include: AfD is not for cleanup, forks of this type are quite reasonable, and defined in WP:FICTION, it passes Misplaced Pages:Lists (discriminate and verfiable list associated with notable franchise; title even says "major" in it), etc. Thus enough valid reasons to keep that we have a no consensus, but all I am requesting is a restoration and redirect, which allows editors to see again if anything can be merged, have the ability to much more easier improve the article should additional sources turn up, and allow for editors' contribution history to this non-hoax/non-libel/non-copy vio article to remain public. Thus, whereas as I see plenty of benefits to restoring the article and then redirecting, I do not see any gain from outright deleting it. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 18:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
- Overturn AfD should have been closed as no consensus, as per Le Grand's arguments. Article should be restored at least to merge relevant info to the main character article. GlassCobra 16:04, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse — The Keep comments were not based in policy: they were either "It's useful" or citing sources that do not fit WP:RS (fansites). There's no need to restore the history, and I'm disturbed at the frequent requests of late to do so for articles that are not being merged anywhere. Per WP:BEANS I won't elaborate, but there are ways of exploiting this off-Wiki that seem abusive to me. — The Hand That Feeds You: 02:46, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- Actually the keep arguments were much better grounded in policy than the delete arguments which were mostly of an "I don't like it" nature. Clear lack of definitive consensus. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 16:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- Flatly stating that they were better grounded in policy isn't terribly helpful, LGRdC. Perhaps you could explain what these policy-based arguments were? You listed above some arguments based upon WP:NOEFFORT (an essay), WP:FICTION (a proposed guideline that, according to you, lacks consensus, so it is puzzling that you should now refer to it), and WP:LISTS (a style guideline). Where are the comparable arguments to those regarding a "lack of secondary sources" (ie., verifiability issues)? Jakew (talk) 17:39, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- They may be essays and and guidelines, but at least they're valid. The thing is there are nevertheless no valid polcy or guideline based reasons for outright deletion. For merging and redirecting without deletion, maybe. For a no consensus closure, okay. But not for a definitive deletion. And flatly stating that the delete arguments were better grounded in policy, when I see nothing convincing to that end, isn't terribly helpful. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 03:14, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
- Flatly stating that they were better grounded in policy isn't terribly helpful, LGRdC. Perhaps you could explain what these policy-based arguments were? You listed above some arguments based upon WP:NOEFFORT (an essay), WP:FICTION (a proposed guideline that, according to you, lacks consensus, so it is puzzling that you should now refer to it), and WP:LISTS (a style guideline). Where are the comparable arguments to those regarding a "lack of secondary sources" (ie., verifiability issues)? Jakew (talk) 17:39, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- Actually the keep arguments were much better grounded in policy than the delete arguments which were mostly of an "I don't like it" nature. Clear lack of definitive consensus. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 16:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Wallace Collins, Esq.
- Wallace Collins, Esq. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)
Valid page Hermit711 (talk) 14:42, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
- Comment. The page in question is Wallace Collins, Esq.. Fix't above. --lifebaka (Talk - Contribs) 14:56, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse. Nom has given no reason to overturn deletion and AfD was closed properly. --lifebaka (Talk - Contribs) 14:56, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Overturn Please ,In both Talk and again in the page itself his Notability was expressed He has been the attorney of many people already listed on Misplaced Pages and has many Articles written about him in the Press. This was noted on the page i created and in the Talk about Wallace Collins Esq.
His whole family has been Lawyers and his Grandfather was a famaous Lawyer during the Prohibition years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hermit711 (talk • contribs) 15:44, 18 May 2008 (UTC) --Hermit711 (talk) 15:50, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Wallace Collins, Esq.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Wallace_Collins%2C_Esq.&action=edit&redlink=1>
His Notability is evident in that he has been cited in Major Newspaper and Music Trade Pubs, and he has made case Law in the Copyright and Trademark arenas.
Please look at his page if i did it wrong then i need someone to put a Misplaced Pages page up that knows what they are doing this is all very confusing to me.
http://www.wallacecollins.com/
Under his legal victories you can see the articles that have been reported on him such as; http://www.wallacecollins.com/la.html
Making Case Law
http://www.wallacecollins.com/whoomp/wcaw5.jpg http://www.wallacecollins.com/whoomp/wcaw4.jpg http://www.wallacecollins.com/whoomp/wcaw3.jpg http://www.wallacecollins.com/whoomp/wcaw2.jpg
These are just some examples. --Hermit711 (talk) 16:22, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
His Notability is evident in that he has been cited in Major Newspaper and Music Trade Pubs, and he has made case Law in the Copyright and Trademark arenas.--Hermit711 (talk) 15:57, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Also as stated elsewhere i have put up just some of the Cites here also i have stated he was a recording artist and here is that information :
His band was THE DYNOMITERS They were featured in 16 Magazine and other teen magazines and got press in the trades we were signed to Epic Records in 76 the most notable song was "Rock & Roll President"
--Hermit711 (talk) 17:57, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse: No assertion of notability, badly written, only 2 references, no internal links, no sections... Need I go on? (The notability and references are the biggest concerns)...... Dendodge .. Talk 18:09, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I have listed His band i have listed the Song. I have listed just 4 of Articles about him there are more i would put into the page if it were still there. I have listed the page where all the articles i have for him are, all by Major Publications, The Times the Post , DMA , etc this is not enough?
As to form yes i need help writing the page BUT the Notability issue is very well covered just in what i have written here, he is at least as Notable as his Clients, that are listed in Misplaced Pages.
If you are saying it is bad writting on my part then so be it i have asked for help, and i was NOT done writing it i ran out of time. But i will take any help i can get, to do that however, i need the page put back up. And i do not Understand what is meant by Assertion of Notability His winning Cases alone cover that "Whoomp there it is" was a major Sampling case. And he was in a music group in 1976 as stated above is that not enough? --Hermit711 (talk) 18:31, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
The "Whoomp there it is" Case which i believe i provided links for in the original article was Notable it made case Law on Sampling in copyright and that was not the only one, and maybe his music group was not wonderful by todays standards, but then it was covered and He would not be the Only 1 hit wonder covered in Misplaced Pages. If i did not write the Article correctly, I thought i was following the guidelines and over a week or 2 figured i would get it right, there are people who will help me fix that. But his notability Can Not be questioned by your Own Guidelines, As a 1 hit Wonder he is Notable by Misplaced Pages standards, or many other pages should be deleted. --Hermit711 (talk) 18:49, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse deletion His song was not a chart hit or anything as far as I can tell. If you can cite the reliable sources you have, then maybe I'd ask for an over turn. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 20:18, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
- comment The logical first step would be to try to write an acceptable article demonstrating notability for the band. DGG (talk) 20:55, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse deletion - the AFD was validly closed. The way forward is for the nominator to write a new article in user space and then come back here with a request for it to be moved across. Smile a While (talk) 23:43, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse deletion. Valid closure, nothing out of process, consensus was 100% in favor of deletion. KleenupKrew (talk) 01:24, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
- Endorse deletion The AfD consensus was clear, and was correctlt determined by closing admin. Musical notability is not demonstrated in the article, and in the legal framework even if his clients were notable, this notability does not carry over. --Anthony.bradbury 17:24, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
- Comment: Please provide citations to the caselaw. 69.140.152.55 (talk) 09:02, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Image:The Simpsons Opening Credits Circus Couch Gag.ogg
- Image:The Simpsons Opening Credits Circus Couch Gag.ogg (edit | ] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)
Media DID contain the correct source and info, but was deleted under CSD I4 anyway Adammw (talk - please email me for contact) 13:02, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Image:The Simpsons Movie Opening Credits.ogg
- Image:The Simpsons Movie Opening Credits.ogg (edit | ] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)
Media DID contain the correct source and info, but was deleted under CSD I4 anyway Adammw (talk - please email me for contact) 13:02, 18 May 2008 (UTC)