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Edit this section for new requests

User:Giovanni33

Giovanni33 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

1/7 RR parole per . Broken on Atomic bombings of Japan as a form of state terrorism; (unmarked revert) and (marked revert) William M. Connolley (talk) 21:42, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

• Blocked for 72 hours and logged. Note that since G33 is the subject of another ongoing ArbCom case, I've offered to unblock if he promises to edit nowhere except for the ArbCom case pages for the duration of the block. MastCell  21:55, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
  • During a prior arbitration case I unblocked him for the specific purpose of arbitration, and he blatantly disregarded those terms. Durova 02:37, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Why isn't he just eating an indef block? How many times has he violated this restriction anyways? Jtrainor (talk) 02:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Since I've resigned the admin tools I have no direct power over that. Two things are worth noting, though. First, he's quite capable of communicating with the Committee via e-mail. Second, his block log states last fall that I specifically lifted an indefinite block on him for the sole purpose of arbitration. His subsequent edit history shows how quickly and prolifically he violated that stipulation. I cut him a lot of slack then. Don't think a second lease on AGF would be appropriate. Durova 03:39, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
      • I also note that he is arguing on his talk page that since the two reverts were to different sections of the article, they don't count as a break of parole. Such false naivety doesn't bode well for any future promises William M. Connolley (talk) 07:19, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
        • That claim is also inaccurate. He restored the exact same sentence twice. His first revert covered more than one edit and he is using that to hide the full nature of the revert. Details on his talk page. Sentence starts on line 12. revert 1revert 2 (and to show they were reverts and not edits, revert 1revert 2--DHeyward (talk) 07:35, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I have denied the request to unblock, as the block was appropriate, and as the arbcom case is in voting phase, and moving slowly, there is no great need for the user to participate in the case. They can use arbcom-l if anything needs to be urgently brought to the attention of the arbcom. John Vandenberg 08:38, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Controlled demolition hypothesis for the collapse of the World Trade Center‎

We have a problem with a rotating set of single purpose accounts and conspiracy theory advocates trying to whitewash the lead of this article. Could an uninvolved arbitrator administrator look at the edit history and dish out stern warnings as needed. Thank you very much. Jehochman 03:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

• Controlled demolition hypothesis for the collapse of the World Trade Center‎ (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Arthur appears to think that the IP address is User:Bov, who was already warned about editing disruptively. It doesn't help that he uses IP addresses, which makes it difficult to tell whether or not he should know better. --Haemo (talk) 21:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

While the four editors could be Bov it could also be one or two editors supporting someone who might or might not be him. A discrete ISP check first might have been more appropriate than an accusation. As Jehochman didn't see fit to support his claim with diffs I submit the following:
152.131.10.133 (Department of Veterans Affairs Washington D.C.) made the following edits:, , and between June 5 and June 12. 24.175.107.174 (Houston Texas ?)made one edit on June 12. 67.170.205.8 (San Francisco California ?) made the following edits: and on June 13. Go-here.nl made one edit on June 13.
Only one problem edit plus three edits that only moved a box to another location involved the lead while most look like grammatical edits. I think Jehochman is possibly over reacting as there was no revert war or overtly disruptive editing with the edits easily reverted without arguement. If they are Bov, what is the problem as long as he is not disruptive and accepts the reverts? While the 911 articles are peaceful we should be keeping it that way rather than creating conflict by threatening every one with WP:AE. Wayne (talk) 17:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Moving the box so that it sticks out below the bottom of the article is vandalism clearly harmful. They're definately "problem edits". And, as I pointed out in ANI, 67. made one edit correcting an error in copying one of Bov's edits on 7 June, before starting the problem edits (not just on this article) immediately after 152. was blocked for the second time. As the block should have expired by now, perhaps we should invite the parties to comment here? — Arthur Rubin (talk) 17:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

My apologies as I did not check to see what the moved box looked like. Did the editor also not check? He said in the comment "moved template to help clear up top of the page" and i've made bigger mistakes in good faith myself. However, I still say that even if all the edits were bad (which they were not) WP:AE is premature in this particular case. Wayne (talk) 11:31, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

@Jehochman: You are asking for the intervention of an "uninvolved arbitrator", but note that this noticeboard is for enforcement of ArbCom restrictions, by administrators. If what you need is a clarification from the ArbCom, you can do that at WP:RCAM. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 02:06, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

That was a typo (or braino). I meant administrator. Jehochman 03:13, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Resolved

Jaakobou soliciting random editors off-wiki

The following discussion is an archived report. Please do not modify it. Subsequent reports should be made in a new section.

No action necessary. PhilKnight (talk) 20:17, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

• Jaakobou (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles

I recently made some changes to the article Gaza beach blast (2006), clarifying the lead (here). This edit was promptly embraced and extended by User:Jaakobou, adding statements that were not supported by the rest of the article itself (here). Following WP:BRD, I reverted User:Jaakobou's edit and modified my original edit slightly following User:Jaakobou's edit comments (here). Also following WP:BRD, User:Jaakobou started a discussion on the article talk page (here), to which I responded, explaining my revert (here).

So far, so good, but as of here things get weird. A few hours later, a previously uninvolved editor User:TenPoundHammer, who's edit history shows no record of participating in Israeli-Palestinian articles, reverts my revert (here).

Not really understanding what was going on, I asked User:TenPoundHammer to reconsider his edit, pointing out that the article is subject to Misplaced Pages:General sanctions and that there was an ongoing discussion (here). I also asked him how he happened to chance upon my edit. User:TenPoundHammer responded, quite swiftly and frankly to his credit, that he had been solicited by another user on IRC (here and correction here). Upon asking who had solicited him (here), he replied, with the same frankness, that it was User:Jaakobou (here).

So, what's up here? On one side, User:Jaakobou follows WP:BRD and engages in discussion, which is highly laudable and the way to go, on the other hand he solicits uninvolved editors off-wiki to revert for him. I haven't found any specific piece of policy addressing stealth edit-warring, but this definitely goes against the spirit of the ArbCom ruling and WP:GAME.

This is not User:Jaakobou's first time here for yet a new attempt at gaming the system, and I suggest, through a long topic-ban, that it be his last.

I would also encourage other editors who have seen the same phenomenon -- apparently uninvolved editors swooping-in to make reverts on edits User:Jaakobou didn't like -- to bring these matters here too.

Cheers and kind regards, pedrito - talk - 11.06.2008 06:34

One would assume that this sort of gleefull, GOTCHA! cries would be sanctionable as well: . I'm sorry, but Misplaced Pages is not a battleground and this sort of gaming is truly bad form. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 06:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

In situations such as this one it is a good idea to contact the editor and/or his mentor before taking the matter to a noticeboard. As everyone who's familiar with the Israel-Palestine disputes knows, editing the subject can be like walking on eggshells. So Jaakobou does his utmost to put his best foot forward. He often seeks feedback and advice before he posts. That is, are his sources reliable? Is his tone civil? Has he addressed the important points in the best way? There are limits to my abilities to help him, so Jaakobou sought a second mentor. Then because there where points where neither of us are really suitable to help Jaakobou tried the idea of occasionally contacting a larger circle. And I emphasize: always requesting advice and never requesting support. He also invites the people he contacts to get in touch with either me or his other mentor if they feel that his request is inappropriate in any way. Durova 07:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

It surprised me to see Pedro's post at my user talk.

Durova is correct - I showed TenPoundHammer the page and asked whether my edit was appropriate because Pedro suggested I added "way to much information".

I specifically did not ask him to intervene in any way, and didn't know that he had until hours afterwards.

Cordially, Jaakobou 08:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Seems to me this is a potential violation of WP:CANVAS, although technically it probably depends on the nature of the message Jaakobou left on IRC. CANVAS states that Campaigning is an attempt to sway the person reading the message, through the use of non-neutral tone, wording, or intent. While this may be appropriate as part of an individual discussion, it is inappropriate to canvass with such messages. So if Jaakobou has placed a non-neutral message on IRC rather than just neutrally asking for more eyes on the page, that would be a violation.

I think it's also worth noting however that off-Wiki canvassing is strongly discouraged. While there isn't actually a specific policy prohibiting canvassing on IRC, it could be seen as putting other Wikipedians at a disadvantage, especially if for example those using IRC at the time just happen to share the opinions of the poster. It also potentially disadvantages those who don't use IRC. So perhaps some more discussion of this issue might be useful. Personally I lean to the view that canvassing should probably be confined to portals and other venues that are transparent, in order to avoid potential problems. Gatoclass (talk) 08:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to contest the notion that User:TenPoundHammer studied the edit on his own and made the revert based on a self-formed opinion. His edit summary says: "It's valid sourced info, don't remove", yet the link to the first source is broken, something he would have noticed had he actually checked the source. Furthermore, both sources are already quoted in the main article (references 33 and 21), something that User:TenPoundHammer would have also noticed on inspection. The statement he re-inserted ("Subsequent Israeli and international investigations concluded that Israel did not shell the beach") is not supported by the source, which User:TenPoundHammer also missed. Finally, User:TenPoundHammer reverted without even bothering to check if there was an ongoing discussion on the talk page, which there was.

User:TenPoundHammer ist an experienced editor with aspirations to adminship. It is somewhat difficult for me to believe he did this without prior priming.

Cheers, pedrito - talk - 11.06.2008 08:58

I can believe Jaakobou's statement that he did not canvass for a revert: yes, he does ask people if his edit is OK and I'll accept that that's all that happened here. In the absence of the relevant logs, I am forced to believe it. TenPoundHammer is whacked with a very large TROUT for making ill-thought-out reverts like this in such a contentious area. Moreschi (talk) (debate) 13:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Go ahead, trout me for that. I really should've known better. (Now do you see why I'm still not an admin? Even when I think things through I still foul up.) Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 18:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I was going on my opinion on this edit. I didn't realize the one link I re-added was broken, though. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 00:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Pedrito's interest in Jaakobu

As per Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Discretionary_sanctions, it may be time to request that Pedrito refrain from making any post or comment about Jaakobu other than e-mailing or talkpage messaging Jaakobu's mentors (Durova and myself). The sanctions include failing to "…adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process," of which potential harassment or stalking is also against wikipedia standards of behavior. Pedrito knows that Jaakobu has, on his own, requested experienced editors' help in trying to navigate the difficult shoals of I-P articles, and looking at Pedrito's history, their appears to be a distinct over-interest in Jaakobu's behavior and a tendency to post on various administrator noticeboards at frequent intervals. If Pedrito is truly interested in the proper working of wikipedia, it would be more appropriate, in my opinion, were he to confine himself to bettering the encyclopedia through addition to and enhancement of the material with proper sources, good grammar, and the other necessities of an encyclopedia, as opposed to taking on the perceived self-appointed role of Jaakobu's policeman. I believe that requesting this of Pedrito is covered by the General sanctions, and if not, it is covered by our inter-editor behavioral polices. May I have the thoughts of other admins here please? Thank you. -- Avi (talk) 12:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I can support your proposal. This is another example of conflict between editors which has become personal and rather toxic, and some sort of disengagement appears to be needed. There is a disproportionate level of scrutiny the two editors are applying to each other, and in this case I don't think Jaakobou is the one who is overreacting. Horologium (talk) 13:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

And actually, in my opinion, I'd say that what Jaakabou did was commendable in this case. Asking a neutral, non-IP-involved editor for their opinion on his edit was probably the best course of action. We all need doublechecks when we're dealing with issues that are close to the heart, rather than something we are interested in for purely intellectual reasons. Perhaps doin so on TenPoundHammer's talk page would have allowed for more transparency, but the spirit of what he did was not against policy. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 13:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

• Premature. If we stop people from reporting potentially dubious conduct the whole darn system falls to pieces. We should only do so if the "reporting" is tipping into open harassment. Even then I'm dubious: anti-stalking remedies have been tried by ArbCom before, but they have a tendency to force bigger issues of non-neutral editing under the carpet (example). Moreschi (talk) (debate) 13:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Avi,

You might be quite surprised to hear that for the past six months or so I have been actively trying to avoid any interaction with User:Jaakobou, since the resulting friction is both a waste of time and nerves which do not help ameliorate the encyclopaedia. User:Jaakobou and I tangle often because we edit articles with a similar focus. As far as I know, I do not follow User:Jaakobou around (a.k.a. stalking) and would be very surprised if you could point to an instance in which I have done so.

The current case can even be used as proof of the opposite, where my recent edit to Gaza beach blast (2006), a quiet page that had not been touched in more than a month, prompted a response by User:Jaakobou, who had not touched the page in almost a year, within less than three hours. Who's following who around?

What I have done is consistently report User:Jaakobou here every time he as broken the rules. I have also, on many occasions, contacted User:Durova, one of User:Jaakobou's mentors, to try to resolve behavioural disputes before taking them here or elsewhere up the ladder, as she will no doubt confirm.

I would greatly appreciate it if you could be more specific in your accusations (e.g. diffs of me stalking and/or harassing anybody, diffs of me being uncivil/unproductive, etc...) , as I myself see nothing wrong with my behaviour.

Cheers and thanks, pedrito - talk - 11.06.2008 13:14

I don't see that Avi needs to be any more specific in his accusations, when you admit they are true. Above you write that "What I have done is consistently report User:Jaakobou here every time he as broken the rules." - which sounds exactly like what Avi has claimed - that you have nominated yourself to the role of Jaakobou's personal policeman. It also seems that it woul dbe very hard for you to "consistently report User:Jaakobou here every time he as broken the rules" unless you were following him around - so please stop it. Canadian Monkey (talk) 16:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I should have been more specific: "What I have done is consistently report User:Jaakobou here every time he as broken the rules in our interactions." I don't think I've ever put him up here for offences that did not involve me personally. Cheers, pedrito - talk - 12.06.2008 06:28

If you are following him around and making sure you interact with him, the qualification you made above makes very little difference. As a case in point, the article which is the proximate cause for this report, Gaza beach blast (2006), is one that Jaakobou had been editing extensively since May 2007. You followed him to that article on March 11, 2008, and began to systematically revert or modify his edits to that page. And before you trot out the “he wasn’t editing that page at the time” excuse, I’ll point out that on that very same day (March 11, 2008), you followed him to another article (Tomorrow's Pioneers) that he had been editing (as recently as the 3 days earlier) and proceeded to revert him. The day before that (March 10), you were reverting him on Israeli-Palestinian conflict‎. So to me, your claim that “for the past six months or so I have been actively trying to avoid any interaction with User:Jaakobou” does not ring true. There are over 2 million articles on Misplaced Pages – go find something to do that does not involve Jaakobou, at all. Canadian Monkey (talk) 16:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually I cannot confirm that Pedrito contacted me many times, certainly not with a frequency that begins to approach Jaakobou's requests for assistance (which often tax the limits of my time), and it has been a while since Pedrito contacted me at all. This call for a topic ban surprises me very much, particuarly in the aftermath of a single neutral editor deciding that Pedrito's own removal of properly sourced information had been a bad edit. This thread illustrates the reasons Jaakobou seeks advice: any action he takes is apt to be construed in the worst possible light and may lead to formal complaints. Jaakobou has been following my advice to interact politely, to broaden the scope of his editing, to contribute DYKs and featured content, and to seek harmonious resolution to content disputes. I shake my head to see this thread unfold. Pedrito, imagine yourself in my position for a moment: how would you encourage a mentoree to approach mediation optimistically with someone who acts so eager to stick a fork into him? I'm at wit's end. Durova 15:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

No, I must protest: A broken link is by no means "properly sourced information". Stop pretending that User:TenPoundHammer's reversal during an ongoing discussion was justified. It wasn't. Had there been any reason to think otherwise, I would neither have questioned his motives (to which he responded quite frankly) nor brought this issue here.

Furthermore, I though I was engaged in a normal, civilized discussion with your mentoree on that article until I was reverted at what seems to have been his behest. After the short exchange with User:TenPoundHammer it was I who had cutlery dangling out my side.

User:Jaakobou is a problematic editor and I am by far not the first person to report him to various levels of arbitration or enforcement. As a problematic editor maybe you should suggest to him to avoid doing things like seeking advice off-wiki in a non-transparent way that, given his background, may be interpreted as gaming the system.

Cheers and good evening, pedrito - talk - 11.06.2008 15:28

It doesn't help to see myself told to stop something I haven't done in the first place, or to see iterations of Jaakobou is a problematic editor without specific evidence. Pedrito, I'd like to see you acknowledge that maybe Jaakobou isn't so bad, that he's been improving, and that this thread might have been started in haste. I certainly wouldn't encourage Jaakobou to seize upon a single event and demand a topic ban against you without trying to clarify the events better. Durova 15:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, things have been quiet in the past few months and I was looking forward to a constructive, normal discussion with User:Jaakobou on Gaza beach blast (2006) until this whole thing happened. Now that his preferred version is up though, he doesn't seem to keen on responding to my comments... Well, I guess I'll WP:AGF yet again, and just wait for that good discussion I was hoping for to get going. Cheers, pedrito - talk - 12.06.2008 06:28

I've added a mirror to the broken Reuters ref in my edit and also another working citation referenced to JPost.

• The Reuters mirror from My edit

Cordially, Jaakobou 16:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it's clear this matter is not going anywhere. Without a log, no-one can accuse Jaakobou of canvassing unfairly on IRC. However, I think the issue of canvassing on IRC in general may need to be clarified, as I suggested above. Gatoclass (talk) 07:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment - I believe Pedrito is now in violation of the WP:3RR after reverting both Jaakobou (me) and TenPoundHammer while ignoring the talk page notes YNhockey and Jaakobou has made. There is clearly no consensus for another revert and being that he has also made a bad faith suggestion here while edit warring, I would appreciate some advice/3rd opinion on how to proceed without aggravating the situation further. Jaakobou 07:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

• While the edit history for Gaza beach blast (2006) does not indicate a 3RR violation, there is edit warring going on, and everyone, including Pedrito, is counseled to stop and take their discussions to the talk page. -- Avi (talk) 14:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

• And I'd like to remind the editors there that administrators eyes ARE on that article so play nice, k? :) (I'm not an admin, but I know at least one has mentioned on RFPP that he'd be watching it.) Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 16:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

• More people keeping an eye on the topic is a very good idea. The mentors can't do it all. Durova 01:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

• By the way, Jaakobou contacted me via IRC, in case anyone wants to know. He told me that he was in need of a sanity check on an article, and wanted a third party; I looked over the edit history, and to my eyes it looked like Pedrito had removed unbiased, sourced info. Although I'm sure that Pedrito was acting in good faith, I reverted the removal because I see no reason to remove anything that is neutral and sourced. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • 17:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Lapsed Pacifist

The following discussion is an archived report. Please do not modify it. Subsequent reports should be made in a new section.

User blocked for 24hrs by Rockpocket (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

• Lapsed Pacifist (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Lapsed Pacifist

Per this case LP is "banned indefinitely from articles which relate to the conflict in Northern Ireland. The ban is intended to include any page in Misplaced Pages which Lapsed Pacifist engages in a dispute related in any way to the conflict in Northern Ireland", due to his POV pushing. After making a previous highly contentious edit describing the Black and Tans as "British terrorists", LP seems to be under the impression that the ban does not apply to this aticle and proceeded to make another highly contentious edit adding his newly created category "State terrorism in the United Kingdom". This seems to be gaming the system to me, as the Britain/Ireland conflict applies just as much to that article, and similar incidents involving other editors have shown that liberal interpretations apply, especially when the system is being gamed. There's also tendentious edits in other areas as well. Domer48 (talk) 14:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

A clear violation of the spirit of the remedy. I have blocked for 24hrs and, if there is genuine confusion over the limits of the ban, I will inform LP that he should interpret the scope of it liberally, when in relation to Irish/British conflict. Rockpocket 17:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

8bitJake and Democratic leadership council

The following discussion is an archived report. Please do not modify it. Subsequent reports should be made in a new section.

User blocked for one week by Toddst1 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

• 8bitJake (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/8bitJake

Also see the Admin noticeboard thread up to this point here. The 8bitJake remdy says "He may be banned for good cause from any article which he disrupts by tendentious or disruptive editing." 8bitJake's contributions look very similar to the evidence in the case that got him probation to begin with in the most recent Democratic Leadership council edit war. See the following diffs for the type of language he's using in edit summaries. ( ) and his talk page attitude () that doesn't reflect well on anyone involved. There is a strong chance 8bitJake violated 3RR on this, as well. Weighted Companion Cube (are you still there?/don't throw me in the fire) 12:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Per FCYTravis at WP:AN/I: Work out the issue on the talk page. It takes two for a straight-up content edit war, which this appears to be. Request the involvement of other editors. At first glance, this doesn't appear to be tendentious, disruptive editing - it appears to be two people involved in a heated content dispute. We either ban both editors or they need to try to involve other editors to assist them with their dispute. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 16:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Except that both editors aren't under article probation. Is someone baiting 8bitJake? Are you trying to say that 8bitJake is not editing disruptively as he did in the past? Weighted Companion Cube (are you still there?/don't throw me in the fire) 16:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Please carefully read #Enforcement. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 01:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

It appears it was actually enforced by someone who cares about arbitration rulings, so this is all set. Weighted Companion Cube (are you still there?/don't throw me in the fire) 13:55, 14 June 2008 (UTC)