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I have the book ''The Stalinist Penal System'' by Otto Pohl. This book has a recap of Zemskov's statistics on the Gulag. Pohl believes that the actual total's were higher when one takes into account summary executions and deaths in transit camps. The offical figures claim 338,000 Soviets were taken into custody by the NKVD out of 5,229,000 repatriated in 1945-46. Zemskov says there 148,079 in exile in 1947. What happened to the other 190,000?--] (]) 22:13, 22 July 2008 (UTC) I have the book ''The Stalinist Penal System'' by Otto Pohl. This book has a recap of Zemskov's statistics on the Gulag. Pohl believes that the actual total's were higher when one takes into account summary executions and deaths in transit camps. The offical figures claim 338,000 Soviets were taken into custody by the NKVD out of 5,229,000 repatriated in 1945-46. Zemskov says there 148,079 in exile in 1947. What happened to the other 190,000?--] (]) 22:13, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

There is some difference between ''exile'' (spets-poseleniye) and a ''Gulag camp''. The first is a much milder penalty, because you are physically free (you only cannot leave a village where you live). So it does not mean necesserily that others 190,000 were executed. They could be imprisoned in Gulag camps, for instance, some of them could be executed. For me, it is not a big surprise, because some peoples who claimed to be POWs could really commit war crimes, and others could be sentensed with no serious reason. I don't think anybody of them was able to hire a good lawer - and who would analyze their cases carefully?<br />The more interesting for me is the following. The common opinion is that ] were arrested or exsequted upon their returning from Germany. Zemskov's data tell us that only ~15% of POWs and 1.5% civilians were arrested. I admit that these data might be uncomplete, but if even real numbers were even as twice as high, it is almost nothing as compared to what most peoples think.<br />Best regards -----] (]) 23:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 23:23, 22 July 2008

Welcome!

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Erlikman book

You should be able to find the Erlikman book in the Library of Congress. I got the book in Russia back in 2004. Vadim Erlikman. Poteri narodonaseleniia v XX veke : spravochnik. Moscow 2004. ISBN 5-93165-107-1--Woogie10w (talk) 22:14, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
Library of Congress Info:
LC Control No.: 2004402626
LCCN Permalink: http://lccn.loc.gov/2004402626
Type of Material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.)
Personal Name: Ėrlikhman, Vadim.
Main Title: Poteri narodonaselenii︠a︡ v XX veke : spravochnik / Vadim Ėrlikhman.
Variant Title: Poteri narodonaselenii︠a︡ v 20. veke
Poteri narodonaselenii︠a︡ v dvadt︠s︡atom veke
Published/Created: Moskva : "Russkai︠a︡ panorama", 2004.
Description: 174, p. ; 24 cm.
ISBN: 5931651071
--Woogie10w (talk) 13:10, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Zemskov Data

I have the book The Stalinist Penal System by Otto Pohl. This book has a recap of Zemskov's statistics on the Gulag. Pohl believes that the actual total's were higher when one takes into account summary executions and deaths in transit camps. The offical figures claim 338,000 Soviets were taken into custody by the NKVD out of 5,229,000 repatriated in 1945-46. Zemskov says there 148,079 in exile in 1947. What happened to the other 190,000?--Woogie10w (talk) 22:13, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

There is some difference between exile (spets-poseleniye) and a Gulag camp. The first is a much milder penalty, because you are physically free (you only cannot leave a village where you live). So it does not mean necesserily that others 190,000 were executed. They could be imprisoned in Gulag camps, for instance, some of them could be executed. For me, it is not a big surprise, because some peoples who claimed to be POWs could really commit war crimes, and others could be sentensed with no serious reason. I don't think anybody of them was able to hire a good lawer - and who would analyze their cases carefully?
The more interesting for me is the following. The common opinion is that almost all POWs and civilians were arrested or exsequted upon their returning from Germany. Zemskov's data tell us that only ~15% of POWs and 1.5% civilians were arrested. I admit that these data might be uncomplete, but if even real numbers were even as twice as high, it is almost nothing as compared to what most peoples think.
Best regards -----Paul Siebert (talk) 23:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)