Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 13:18, 8 August 2008

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Criticism of Misplaced Pages article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

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Note: This is the Talk page for the Misplaced Pages article on external criticisms of Misplaced Pages. Users interested in discussing their own problems with the project should go to the Village Pump where there are specific sections for dealing with various types of issue.

Misplaced Pages B‑class High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Misplaced Pages, a collaborative effort to improve Misplaced Pages's encyclopedic coverage of itself. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page. Please remember to avoid self-references and maintain a neutral point of view, even on topics relating to Misplaced Pages.WikipediaWikipedia:WikiProject WikipediaTemplate:WikiProject WikipediaWikipedia B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Template:Multidel

To-do: E · H · W · RUpdated 2022-01-07 Flesh lead out a bit - an extremely long article should have a large lead.Rewrite and shorten the lead - it's very long and not well-organized. Add more images

For critical takes on Misplaced Pages covered by Misplaced Pages itself, see Misplaced Pages:External peer review/Nature December 2005 (40 science articles) and Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2005-10-31/Guardian rates articles (7 articles of general interest).

Controversy with the Authors and Readers of Webcomics

A frequently cited criticism of Misplaced Pages and one that is sometimes blamed for the decline in traffic is the manner in which an admin determines that certain topics aren't significant enough to merit an article and deletes the article written about the topic. As a result of this policy, several articles about popular webcomics and blogs that recieve tens of thousands of viewers according to Alexa, many of which won critical praise had articles about them deleted by wikipedia. <references/http://www.webcomicker.com/?p=33> <references/http://comixtalk.com/terrence_markswikipedia_and_y> It was viewed as not acceptable my many webcomic authors and readers that articles about websites and webcomics that have tens of thousands of regular viewers are deemed as candidates for deletion as a result of an admin who is personally unfamiliar with the comic. Others found it counter intuitive that because of Misplaced Pages's deletion policy, users who come to wikipedia looking for information about a popular blog or webcomic or site were unable to find it. This seemed to go against what was traditionally considered one of Misplaced Pages's greatest assests, it's ability to provide information on topics that professional encyclopedias like Encyclopedia brittanica were too limited in scope to cover. Others view as a sign that Misplaced Pages has become too hierarchical, closed, and overrun with "admins" and "editors" and Misplaced Pages itself is becoming burdened by the bureacracy of of it's editing staff.

• I'm not sure on this one. I personally think a lot of admins/editors tend to delete stuff for "non-notability" just because they haven't heard of it, or aren't familiar with it. But then again, the policies of wikipedia pretty much say you gotta cite stuff, and if you don't/can't, then the assumption is that it's not notable enough. I could be wrong though, and like I said, this is just my opinion. However, I do think it's a bit unfair sometimes; different people have different definitions of what "notability" is. I saw an AfD (is that the correct term?) for an article on a Dallas-area radio show host one time. The guy has been, and continues to be, number one in the ratings and is pretty well known in the area. But an editor nominated the article for deletion because essentially he was of the opinion (paraphrasing), "Well, I haven't heard of him, so he can't be all that well known". This was despite the fact that the editor wasn't a Dallas-area resident...then again, of course, I think all of this just goes back to one of the core debates within Misplaced Pages: do we include everything or just some things? Do we strive to "provide information on topics that professional encyclopedias like Encyclopedia brittanica too limited in scope to cover", or do we try and be just as "professional" as said encyclopedias? Perhaps these points could be expanded upon or added to the "Notability" section. Shnakepup (talk) 15:28, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

De Facto Leader

Why in the devil does it say that Jimmy Wales is the de facto leader of Misplaced Pages 3 times? I think most readers of this page probably could care less from knowing that he is so much cooler than us "mere mortals", that it has to be mentioned 3 times.

Carolyn Doran and "hive mind"

Can someone think of a good addition to the "hive mind" section that uses Misplaced Pages's response to the Carolyn Doran article? Most of the stuff I add to articles seems to get reverted, so I'm not even going to try. --Fandyllic (talk) 11:06 AM PST 6 Jan 2008

Criticism of editors

There doesn't appear to be any mention of the treatment of neophyte contributors (or their contributions) by the established editorial community. It has been my repeated experience that articles I contribute are arbitrarily merged into broader topics without consideration of the worth of the distinction. Is it the active policy of wikipedia to constrain the number of articles in this fashion, or is this a minority experience? Is there any documented criticism of this behaviour, or should I start complaining elsewhere so I can cite it? Daveph (talk) 23:25, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

• I think that criticism is covered under the Community section of this article. You could possibly add something to that, but then again, since you're a new user, it might not last ;) Plus, I think it's bad form to write an article/complaint somewhere else just so you can cite it on wikipedia. I think it's considered original research or something (i'm not sure on the policies -- anyone care to correct me on this?) Shnakepup (talk) 15:17, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

OR

There are several sections where the text dangerously sways into WP:SYNTH problem of original research. The smaller sections which deal with criticism of particular wikipedia rules and traditions are OK. However the larger sections, such as about meddling of politicians and "humorous criticism" are not good. While they look referenced, but many of them are basically primary sources from which implicitely drawn conclusion is that they constitute criticism. This is not right. This article must have references which explicitely say that, e.g., "the Onion's" article 'Misplaced Pages Celebrates 750 Years Of American Independence' is humorous criticism of wikipedia". Otherwise it is a personal opinion of a wikipedian and it is unproven why it is criticism and not simply a joke: "A lawyer and a priest meet in a bar" is not necessarily about criticism of a priest. I may continue the list of this kind of nitpicking, but I invite everyone to reread the text carefully and get rid of "coatrackish" pieces. Mukadderat (talk) 18:17, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

• Could you be specific about sections and passages that you have issue with? Otherwise, I don't see how someone can address your issue. - Jmabel | Talk 18:19, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
  • I was very specific with one example (Onion): why says that Onion's was criticism, not just making fun of wikipedia? Also I explained how someone can address the issue: review at least the two sections mentioned and judge whether given examples are described someone in reliable publications as criticism. If you are so insistent, please expolain why "In April 2008, the Boston-based Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA) organized a campaign to correct Israel-related biases and inconsistencies in Misplaced Pages" is "critisism"? On the contrary, it looks as wholehearted acceptance and willing to work on improvement of wikipedia (possibly from their POV, but that is a totally different issue). I could have deleted this and other passages myself, but I 98.5% sure I will be reverted on spot, due to high visibility of the page. Therefore I am asking for other opinions. Mukadderat (talk) 01:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
    • I'm not "insistent" at all. I'm just suggesting that if you want your issue fully addressed, a comprehensive list is more useful than an example or two. I'd agree that the Onion is a stretch. I'm not sure how to handle the CAMERA incident; it may not belong on this page. Did you see the piece in Harper's about it? It was definitely a conscious attempt to subvert the Misplaced Pages process. Things like deliberately making 100+ good edits to innocuous subjects before pushing a POV that was one's real intention in joining in the first place; having people who would totally avoid Israel-related topics until they could become admins, then use the admin role in an agenda-driven manner; etc. - Jmabel | Talk 17:20, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Should we include this material?

I think this is criticism of wikipedia (see last paragraph). Should we include such material here? I asked at another talk page, but the answer from Mukadderat was not particularly convincing. Thank you. Biophys (talk) 03:36, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

No reply. Fine, let's forget about this material.Biophys (talk) 23:48, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

An example of Misplaced Pages Thuggery

I'd love to contribute to this free online encyclopaedia but I'm afraid I will be wasting my time and labelled a Nazi by noclador. I wanted to add more info in the page about El Alamein about the Folgore and other Italian units but I guess if I do, I'd run the real risk of being labelled a Nazi. If you see all the reverts over the last couple of months by this wikipedia Nazi you will see where I'm coming from. I mean what's the point trying to contribute when you've got a bully marking his territory in his disgraceful way, and any other page that he fancies. Shame on wikipedia for letting this brute get away uncastigated and roam free unchecked like the Nazi that he is.

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