Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 07:49, 5 February 2004

I've added some more detail on the LeVay hypothalamus study, which seemed a little sketchily-described before. I hope I haven't made the description too long - if so, someone is welcome to shorten it. Given that this study has been subjected to constant methodological criticisms (try a Google search), it seemed reasonable to discuss some aspects of the methodology, particularly relating to the classification of subjects, in more detail. I've also added information on the similar, more recent study by William Byne and colleagues. I agree with the maveric149 that the current title of the article isn't perfect.

I will add some stuff on twin studies in a few days if I get the time. --EALacey, 14 June 2003

The twin studies section is done, though somebody might like to make it a little more concise if they think it's too long. EALacey 11:28 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Great work! --mav

removed from article:

These studies show that there is no scientific data to support a genetic or biologic basis for same-sex attractions.

This statement doesn't logically follow the findings of these studies; which have shown that 1) there is a possible sexual-orientation dimorphism (difference in the size of a part of the brain), 2) the sexual orientation of identical twins seems to follow a predictable pattern once the orientation of one twin is known, and 3) there is a cetain gene that tends to follow individuals who identify as homosexual. --maveric149

In addition, the current title of the article misses the point -- only one of these studies really deals with genetics. The other two deal with phenotypes and behavior -- which arise from varying degrees of interaction between genes, the chemical environment of the body, the outside environment, self-identification, etc. A MUCH better title would be innate basis of sexual orientation. If there is such a thing as a 'gay gene' (or more likely genes) there is every reason to believe that it/they has/have only some degree of influence on sexual orientation that is somehow "set" in early to late adolescence (thus its supposed "innateness"). Many other factors are probably also at play. --maveric149

I agree that the "no data to support" sentence was biased. Thank you for removing it. Readers should be free to draw their own conclusions.

I am open to an improved title, too. I only chose "genetic basis" because that's what the three types of studies seemed to be focusing on, and the words gene and genetic are fairly well-understood to our general readership. I am not sure what innate means.

I contributed the article to shed light on the moral debate over homesexuality by presenting scientific findings related to the contention that adults cannot change their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Some (most?) arguments over morality hinge on the aspect of human volition. A person who doesn't realize what he is doing is wrong, or who "can't help it", is judged far more leniently than, say, a murderer in cold blood. Not to say that homosexuality is equivalent to murder, of course! Just that people are only judged on what they can do. A better example might be a vehicle collision. If you didn't see that other car running the red light, you aren't held responsible, whereas if you plainly say the blind person slowly jaywalking across your path in plenty of time to stop, it's a different matter.

I am trying hard to distinguish between advocacy (which I seem to slip into unbeknownst to my self) and providing relevant, useful NPOV articles. I look forward to receiving additional feedback from Maverick and Danny and SR and anyone else who has good ideas on how I can improve my contributions.

Ed Poor, Wednesday, May 8, 2002

It's been almost a year since I wrote this article. Would someone please finish it? At least the twin studies... --Uncle Ed 22:31 Feb 27, 2003 (UTC)

Maybe this research item will help:

Gay Gene Isolated, Ostracized

BALTIMORE—On Friday, scientists at Johns Hopkins University isolated the gene which causes homosexuality in human males, promptly separating it from normal, heterosexual genes. "I had suspected that gene was queer for a long time now. There was just something not quite right about it," team leader Dr. Norbert Reynolds said. "It's a good thing we isolated it—I wouldn't want that faggot-ass gene messing with the straight ones." Among the factors Reynolds cited as evidence of the gene's gayness were its pinkish hue, meticulously frilly perimeter, and faint but distinct perfume-like odor.

--Uncle Ed 21:38 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

Hm. I don't know if I should laugh my gay-ass ass off or be insulted. --mav 23:15 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

I vote for the first one, though you should promptly reattach it. Tuf-Kat

LOL - now that was unquestionably funny. :) --mav

All of this seems to beg the question of whether "homosexuality" is even well-defined, let alone genetically determined. Seems to me that a social construct that has, at most, about 35 years of existence in something like its current form and less than 150 years in any even vaguely resemblant form would not readily expected to be tied to genetics. For example, there is an enormous methodological problem in determining whether a particular person is homosexual. How? Self-description of identity? Self-description of behavior? Controlled study of reaction to images? Is a (behaviorally) bisexual person "homosexual" in this sense? (Thought experiment: was Oscar Wilde a homosexual? How about Virginia Woolf?)

As recently as the 1960s, there was a tendency to count only one partner in many actions we would now call "gay sex" as homosexual. "Trade" were not considered homosexual. In the Spanish-speaking world, much the same obtains even today: a macho guy who has sex with effeminate men is categorized very differently from those effeminate men. With different cultural categories, a biological determinist would go looking for a gene for a different social trait. Why should anyone reasonably expect that this sort of search is any better science than phrenology? Why not expect a gene for monosexuality vs. bisexuality, or for preferring to be on the top during sex? Answer: because they are not comparably important categories in our culture so we don't go looking for them.

I could probably go on at great length, but I hope I've already made myself clear without expanding this into an essay. -- Jmabel 07:49, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)