Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:41, 15 August 2008

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Shankblog: In this blog post I give advice on how to do similar work that I do on Misplaced Pages.

Photo

Hi David, I don't suppose you have access to any photographs of Michael Jackson? The article is really lacking any images of him in the 1990's or live performances. I know you usually take your own photo's, thus it is unlikely that you have photographed one of the worlds most elusive pop stars, but I'm really desperate for help on this one. — Realist (Speak) 22:57, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if Mr. Shankbone is still around, but if he ever photographed Jackson, I'm sure he had uploaded it. Also, are you sure you need even more pictures of Jackson? There are already quiet some in the article, including this recent one, although I indeed see no picture of him doing a live performance. Cheers, Face 07:54, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

My concern is over live performances and the lack of pictures for the 1990's. That recent picture is a real Gem though. — Realist (Speak) 14:10, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

That's quite a coup to have that one photo. Unfortunately, Face is right - I would have uploaded an MJ photo by now. Hopefully I will have an opportunity at some point, but he's a difficult one to find to photograph. --David Shankbone 14:35, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Cheers for replying, it's something to look out for I guess. — Realist (Speak) 14:59, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Mmmmm - a cookie!

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A photo request

Hi David, I have been an admirer of your architectural photography since I first saw your uploads. I was wondering if you take photo requests in Manhattan. I am looking for pictures to illustrate the Ely Jacques Kahn article and was wondering if you have or can take any photos of his work or work in the firms Buchman & Kahn, or Kahn & Jacobs. Some buildings mentioned in the article are the Squibb building, Universal Pictures Building, Film Center Building, but there are many more including the Bricken-Casino Building, 1400 Broadway, the Continental Building, and others. Let me know what you think.

Regards, dvdrw 22:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

• Hi dvdrw. I take requests - I'll try and cook you up some good photos. --David Shankbone 22:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Pornography Article

David: Welcome back, even if only for a bit.

Sorry to have stepped on your toes (again). We had discussed this a bit in the talk page, of course, you weren't around at that time, and are seeing it when you see it.

My view is that the photo shows a sex shop. I haven't been in that sex shop, but there are many like it where I live. Long ago those kind of shops did have pornpgraphy. Nowadays, they don't. They sell sex toys and clothing, condoms lube, and a variety of things like that. The closest they have to pornography seems to be DVD's for rent or purchase. Alot of shops aren't carrying so much of that any more either. Anyway, even if that shop is somewhat different, no one (not many) goes to a sex shop to get porngraphy anymore with it so available on the Internet. I looked at the picture closely, and it seems to be a sex shop that sell sex toys. It advertises a peep show, but that is pretty indirect, at least I think so. It doesn't bring to mind the topic of pornpgraphy at any rate.

I've been defending your photo on the hard core pornography article as a variety of homophobic or censors oriented folk. So, I have no problems with your photos, or the hard work that you've done to get them. I'm pretty sure you went out of your way just to get the sex shop photo. I think it is great for the sex shop article, or maybe the peep show article (although I am not sure an advert for a peep show is really on topic).

Anyway, that's my view. Atom (talk) 00:16, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

• Hey, thanks for the note. I shouldn't have reverted you, but approached you (old habits die hard!) so thanks for making the civil move. I would not have reverted again. I noticed your defense on the other porn topics - thanks for the back. I think the issue is "What is pornography?" and those kinds of shops are definitely in the business of providing it. I think these are the reasons I support the photo:

1. The prominence of "Peep Show", which is definitely pornographic entertainment, and I have a friend who goes to one and he said they are still quite popular. God knows why with the Internet. But they also call back to one of the first widely available forms of pornography.

2. The videos in the window, though not vivid, are still obvious.

3. That it *is* a store that sells pornography. There are still quite a few specialty areas of porn that are served by magazines, and also deliver news to specific pornographic interests. Just like Newsweek still sells, albeit fewer, there is still a market for magazines and the like. There's quite a few, and I don't see them going out of business. The East Village has three or four alone.

4. I guess last would just be the general feel. The redness. The lubes, dihldoes (sic?), blow up dolls, etc. The entire display is meant to call arousal, to beckon passers-by, making it a form of pornography as well (I think). There aren't many places where stores advertise so brazenly.

I dunno - do any of those reasons hold water? You're better than I am on this topic, to be honest, so I'll defer to your judgment. --David Shankbone 00:28, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, you've won me over. If you say there is pornography there, then I believe it. I don't think that just a sign that says "Peep Show" is really enough to make the image qualify in my mind. If it were in the lede position, I would probably make the argument that it was not very illustrative of the topic. But -- your placement later in the article, along with the other aspects you mention, seems resaonable to me. Atom (talk) 01:58, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

In the hardcore pornpgraphy page I simplified the caption on your photo. I made it "Filming a gay hardcore scene". I did this for several reasons. In order to keep the image that keeps getting removed I have said that the image is not hardcore pornography, but it is pertinent to the article because it is the filming of hardcore movie, which is sufficiently on topic. Some object to the content, and I point out that there seems to be nothing to object to in the image. (No genital parts showing, nothing that anyone would consider obscene) One person said that an image of anilingus was offensive. I responded that there was no way to tell what exactly they were doing from the image, that saying they were performing anilingus in the image was his own imagination. Some would like to say they are offended because two men seem to be having sex in the image, but I don't think anyone has done that yet. People who object on those grounds seem to just remove the image without comment.

Anyway, I feel that the simplified title can help to avoid some of those obstacles without compromising the integrity of the image by saying that it is something that it is not. Also, very nice blog -- instructive. Atom (talk) 13:13, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Welcome back

Becksguy has given you a cookie! Cookies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a cookie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy munching! — I guess the Wiki addiction didn't surrender to a higher power (the Cookie Monster, perhaps). Welcome back David. — Becks 00:57, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

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NYC Gay Pride images?

Hi, David. You wouldn't happen to have any images in your bag of fun there that shows NYC Gay Pride, would you? I think one that shows throngs of people would illustrate the Stonewall riots Legacy section well. --Moni3 (talk) 17:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

ANI

Just letting you know someone's posted about you at ANI here. Thanks, D.M.N. (talk) 18:28, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Please, however, avoid personally attacking other users as you have done here. D.M.N. (talk) 18:45, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm being personally attacked myself, so fuck that. --David Shankbone 18:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

How exactly? Other users were raising concerns about a blog post - that doesn't constitute a personal attack. Even if someone did personally attack you, that doesn't give you the right to attack someone else in return. D.M.N. (talk) 18:48, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) David, please. I know you're angry about this, and I know you mean well but I do know from speaking with Jeff in person that he wanted to keep his RL name private where he could. Please respect that, and can you please change the image in that blog entry; that's a picture of his husband, Isaac - Alison 18:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I'm very angry about this right now, and I find the way it is being dealt with, and Sandy Georgia's ridiculous assumption of bad faith, to be beyond any reason. I also know you don't think particularly highly of me, either Alison, and that's fine. But Jeff released his name on wiki multiple times, and I happen to know he didn't care. Jeff wasn't the sort who hid himself. At all. --David Shankbone 18:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I do, David. Or at least, I did. Things have been going downhill of late, I'm afraid & I'm less than impressed with one of your blog entries, but you know that already. You're a phenomenal artist and you do amazing work for the project - you know that - but you've also stepped over the line yourself more than once. Please let's leave it at that; this issue is not about you and me - Alison 19:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Look, Alison, I don't write, exist, create or blog with anyone's approval in mind. Regardless, I liked Jeff; we had a falling out over Santa, but I had no ill will toward him in the least and we were quite close for awhile. Regardless, to have someone like Sandy Georgia, who Jeff didn't like for a very long time on this project, now go around and act as if I'm trying to get in some post-mortem pot shots at him is beyond offensive, and beyond a personal attack. Seriously. That goes too far, and I'm very angry about it. And I'm angry about you supporting it, especially since Jeff was up front about who he is, and what he went through in life. Clearly, those of us who knew him best understood he had no shame in foibles and efforts to understand life. That I'm being painted in this light by someone he couldn't stand (anyone can find those diffs) for most of his time, until he decided to forgive her, is far worse than wanting to photograph someone who visually assaults you by changing their tampon on the street. Get real. --David Shankbone 19:05, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Let me make this perfectly clear, David. I removed those edits because I had privacy concerns; ones which I believe to be genuine. That's my job. I never suggested for a second that you were doing all that in bad faith. Never! So don't you tar me with that brush, sir. Like I said, you're angry and offended - so are a bunch of other people, it would seem. Let's leave it at that. Over to you for the last word - Alison 19:32, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

And let me make this pefectly clear, ma'am, the only reason why people are angry and offended is because we had an editor go on ANI talking about my "nature" as if I was shitting on the grave of a dead person, even though I was posting my memorial of things that Jeff made known to everyone, including his name.. Your "sigh" and oversighting links to my memorial of someone I respected gave credability to Sandy Georgia's wild-eye ravings. You don't know me, Alison, and neither does Sandy Georgia, but I will tell you one thing: I hope you never have someone who was a good friend, and the you have a falling out over something as stupid as whether to call Santa Clause "mythical", and then that person dies, and you wish things had turned out differently, and you post your own completley honest memorial about that friend, only to have some asshole go around talking as if you are trying to attack the dead publicly. Then, ma'am, let's see how you react! --David Shankbone 19:53, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

David, I don't want to take your last word away from being directed towards Alison, or to negate what she said. However, I wanted to let you know that I started the original process of contacting Alison with oversiting Jeff's personal information and the information of his sister when she first appeared. If you feel that there is a problem with that, please don't blame Alison, Sandy et al, but myself, as I was the instigator. My talk page and email are free if you would like to discuss things there. I am sorry that things turned out this way. Ottava Rima (talk) 20:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh good grief. Jeff's name was released publically on Misplaced Pages on several instances, and David had the great nerve to write a very nice blog entry on Facebook regarding Jeff. He may have had his differences with Jeff in the past, but David has respect for the guy. To come off as anything less is assuming some of the shittest faith I have ever seen -- and that is saying it lightly. seicer | talk | contribs 19:09, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

About Jeff

I hope you don't think I am attacking you or criticizing you. However, I want you to know that a lot of people are very emotional right now, and that I hope you understand that. I find the fighting very upsetting and I don't think it is good for the community to have this happen right now. I'm not telling you specifics on how to act, or advising you on any of those. I just want you to know how I and others feel right now and that I hope you take this into consideration. I don't want to fight, and I probably won't respond to this anymore because of how I feel at the moment. I'm sorry if I have wasted your time. Ottava Rima (talk) 18:51, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Hey

Good to see you're back and contributing. DS (talk) 01:36, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Second Annual WikiNYC Picnic

Greetings! You are invited to attend the second annual New York picnic on August 24! This year, it will be taking place in the Long Meadow of Prospect Park in Brooklyn. If you plan on coming, please sign up and be sure to bring something! Please be sure to come!
You have received this automated delivery because your name was on the invite list. BrownBot (talk) 20:02, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

About WR

I just read your comment on ANI , especially the line, "The Misplaced Pages Review crowd specialize in gaming our polices and guidelines to use them against us, and then cry foul when we call them on it." If I understand right, are you saying that WR participants in general are involved in some kind of campaign against this project? If so, I suggest not generalizing on the nature of WR participants, because, based on what I've observed, participants in that forum are there for many different reasons.

In my own experience, it was WR that exposed and therefore helped fix some serious issues that were ongoing in Misplaced Pages and that some admins were trying to conceal. Thus, in my opinion, WR has helped make Misplaced Pages better. As you can see from my userpage, I've put a lot of time into writing some articles that I hope are going to be around for awhile, and a forum that makes this more likely by highlighting issues that need to be addressed is a good thing for all of "us". Cla68 (talk) 00:38, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate where you are coming from on this issue, and it is the reason why I originally started to post at WR. That, and to address criticism over my trip to Israel last December. Yes, WR has helped expose and fix problems on Misplaced Pages, but their net effect is negative, and we generally fix a lot of problems ourselves, although many of the people over there are so obsessed with this site that granted, they spend a lot of time looking for issues.

All that said, the WR is a criticism site, not a neutral place for discussion, and really almost anyone who holds a trusted position of power there hates Misplaced Pages. After all, this is the website where Somey gave Daniel Brandt Newyorkbrad's IP information (which Somey admitted to, according to Greg Kohs; and those screenshots on ED's Misplaced Pages Review article aren't fakes). It's a website mostly of Misplaced Pages haters. Have they done some good? Yes, but so has George Bush's War on Terror, even though the net effect has been destructive and used fear to accomplish problematic policies they think justified.

Take, for an example, The fieryangel, who is wholly welcomed there. TFA years ago came on here with a mission to turn Misplaced Pages into his personal advertising machine, and he did so in an offensive, bullying manner. Carson Cooman, Jean-Thierry Boisseau (in his own country he gets no hits), and a variety of their other "products" were pushed as far more influential than they really are. This is the only reason why these guys were here. They weren't contributing anything else but their own products. Then TFA gets topic-banned, so what does he do? He goes and gives advice that is exactly the opposite of what he, himself, was doing. TFA wrote me private notes over at WR demanding I leave Misplaced Pages or else I will be swept up in a coming storm. According to TFA in a private e-mail to me, people at the WR are working to write U.S. Senators and Congressmen about all the horrors of Misplaced Pages to get them to take action. "We're not playing for funsies here, Davie" was what TFA wrote. My response? Laughter. Let's see...two major wars; economic recession; most dynamic election in decades; budget deficits; health care crises; etc. But TFA and the WR crowd thinks the congress is going to legislate the problems of open-source editing?! They can't even stop Cyberstalking - lol. Which goes to show you how messed up are the priorities of the WR obsessives - there are far graver problems facing humanity, but they all think the worst is Misplaced Pages.

So, this is the crowd you are mingling with over there, and TFA is seen as one of its shining, most hard-working members (I suppose it's easier to spend your time doing that than, you know, work on your career as a fledgling musician - maybe he even blames Misplaced Pages for that). Have they done some good? Yes. Are they a website of hypocritical haters? In general, yes. Not everyone, but generally yes.

--David Shankbone 16:56, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Warning re WP:AN

It is exceedingly uncivil to removed an established editors remarks from a public forum, and especially with the use of a script/tool. I shall be asking the editor concerned to remove or modify their comment, but would request you not to do so yourself. I would advise you that I am prepared to issue a short block if there is further inappropriate editing of other peoples contributions. LessHeard vanU (talk) 19:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)