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{{guideline list}} |
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{{guideline list}} |
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The purpose of a Misplaced Pages ] is to provide space for editors to discuss changes to its associated article or project page. '''Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views.''' |
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When writing on a talk page, certain approaches are counter-productive, while others facilitate good editing. The prime values of the talk page are communication, courtesy and consideration. The following list is designed to help Wikipedians use talk pages effectively. |
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==Central points== |
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===Maintain Misplaced Pages policy=== |
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The policies that apply to articles also apply (if not to the same extent) to talk pages, including Misplaced Pages's ], ] and ] policies. There is of course some reasonable allowance for speculation, suggestion and personal knowledge on talk pages, with a view to prompting further investigation, but it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. |
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Pay particular attention to ]: |
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:''Editors should remove any negative material about living persons that is either unsourced, relies upon sources that do not meet standards specified in ], or is a conjectural interpretation of a source.'' |
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===How to use article talk pages=== |
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* <span id="communicate" />'''Communicate''': If in doubt, make the extra effort so that other people understand you, and you get a proper understanding of others. Being friendly is a great help. It is always a good idea to explain your views; it is less helpful for you to voice an opinion on something and not explain why. Explaining an opinion helps in convincing others and reaching consensus. |
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* <span id="topic" />'''Keep on topic''': Talk pages are for discussing the ''article'', not for general conversation about the article's subject (much less other subjects). Keep discussions on the topic of how to improve the associated article. Irrelevant discussions are subject to removal. |
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* <span id="positive" />'''Be positive''': Article talk pages should be used to discuss ways to improve an article; not to criticize, pick apart, or vent about the current status of an article or its subject. This is especially true on the talk pages of ]. However, if you feel something is wrong, but are not sure how to fix it, then by all means feel free to draw attention to this and ask for suggestions from others. |
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* <span id="objective" />'''Stay objective''': Talk pages are not a forum for editors to argue their own different points of view about controversial issues. They are a forum to discuss how the different points of view obtained from secondary sources should be included in the article, so that the end result is ] (which may mean including conflicting viewpoints). The best way to present a case is to find properly referenced material (for an alternative forum for personal opinions, see the ] proposal). |
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* <span id="factual" />'''Deal with facts''': The talk page is the ideal place for all issues relating to ]. This includes asking for help to find sources, comparing contradictory facts from different sources, and examining the reliability of references. Asking for a verifiable reference to support a statement is often better than arguing against it. |
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* <span id="sharing" />'''Share material''': The talk page can be used to store material from the article which has been removed because it is not verified, so that time can be given for references to be found. New material can sometimes be prepared on the talk page until it is ready to be put into the article. |
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* <span id="discussion" />'''Discuss edits''': The talk page is particularly useful to talk about edits. If one of your edits has been reverted, and you change it back again, it is good practice to leave an explanation on the talk page and a note in the edit summary that you have done so. The talk page is also the place to ask about another editor's changes. If someone queries one of your edits, make sure you reply with a full, helpful rationale. |
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* <span id="propose" />'''Make proposals''': New proposals for the article can be put forward for discussion by other editors if you wish. Proposals might include changes to specific details, page moves, merges or making a section of a long article into a separate article. |
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===Good practice=== |
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*<span id="signature" />''']''': To sign a post, type four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>), and they will be replaced with your username and time stamp, like this: ] 13:21, 9 May 2008 (UTC). Please note that it is impossible to leave an anonymous comment because your user name or IP address is recorded in the page history. |
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*<span id="markup" />'''Avoid excessive markup''': It undermines a reasoned argument with the appearance of force through ''Italic text'', '''Bolded text''', and especially CAPITAL LETTERS, which are considered '''''SHOUTING''''', and '''''RANTING!!!!!''''' Italics, however, can be usefully employed for a ''key'' word, to distinguish quoted text from new text and, of course, book titles etc. |
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*<span id="concise" />'''Be concise''': If your post is longer than 100 words, consider shortening it. Long, rambling messages are difficult to understand, and are frequently either ignored or misunderstood. If you need to make a detailed, point by point discussion, see ] for how to lay this out. |
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*<span id="layout" />'''Keep the layout clear''': Keep the talk page attractively and clearly laid out. Avoid repetition, muddled writing, and unnecessary digressions. Talk pages with a good ] are more likely to attract continued participation. |
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*<span id="focussed'' />'''Keep discussions focussed''': Discussions naturally should finalize by agreement, not by exhaustion. |
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*<span id="archives" />''']''': Many article talk pages contain links to archives, which contain earlier discussions. If you are a new editor to an article, be sure to read them, as they often deal with common content disputes and resolutions to them. You may well find your questions and/or objections have already been answered. |
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*<span id="english" />'''Use English''': No matter to whom you address a comment, it is preferred that you use English on English Misplaced Pages talk pages. This is so that comments may be comprehensible to the community at large. If the use of another language is unavoidable, try to also provide a translation of the comments. If you are requested to do so and cannot, it is your responsibility to either find a third party to translate or to contact a translator through the ]. |
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*<span id="opinion" />'''How to provide an opinion:''' Some pages invite you to provide an opinion on a topic. Many people add their opinion as a bullet (<nowiki>*</nowiki>) underneath the relevant topic and bold (<nowiki>'''</nowiki>) a brief one- or two-word summary of that opinion. This practice is optional (and somewhat controversial). Your opinion will typically carry more weight depending on the quality of the rationale you provide for making it. Take your time considering a good rationale, based on how the project operates. Make sure to sign your post (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>), as described above. Note that ]. |
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*{{shortcut|WP:MULTI}}<span id="multi" />'''Centralized discussion:''' Avoid posting the same thread in multiple forums. This fragments discussion of the idea, creating discussions in separate places with no interchange of ideas. This is rarely desirable, and leads to redundant effort where an idea that has already been adequately addressed has to be considered all over again. Instead, solicit discussion in only one location, either an existing talk page or a new project page, and if needed advertise that in other locations using a link. See also: ]<br/>If you find a fragmented discussion, it may be desirable to move all posts to one of the locations, removing them from the other locations and adding a link. |
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*<span id="welcoming" />'''Be welcoming to newcomers:''' People new to Misplaced Pages may be unfamiliar with policy and conventions. ]. If someone does something against custom, ]. ] and gently point out their mistake, reference the relevant policy/guideline/help pages, and suggest a better approach. |
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===Behavior that is unacceptable=== |
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Please note that some of the following are of sufficient importance to be official Misplaced Pages policy. Violations (and especially repeated violations) may lead to the offender being ] or ] from editing Misplaced Pages. |
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*''']''': A personal attack is saying something negative about another person. This mainly means: |
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**'''No insults''': Do not make ] attacks, such as calling someone an ] or a ]. Instead, explain what is wrong with an edit and how to fix it. |
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**'''Do not threaten people''': For example, threatening people with "admins you know" or having them banned for disagreeing with you. |
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**''']''': Threatening a lawsuit is highly disruptive to Misplaced Pages, for reasons given at the linked page. |
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**'''Never post personal details''': Users who post what they believe are the personal details of other users without their consent may be blocked for any length of time, including indefinitely. |
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*'''Do not misrepresent other people:''' The record should accurately show significant exchanges that took place, and in the right context. This usually means: |
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** Be precise in quoting others. |
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** When describing other people's contributions or edits, use ]s. The advantage of diffs in referring to a comment is that it will always remain the same, even when a talk page gets archived or a comment gets changed. |
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** ], do not edit others' comments, including signatures. Exceptions are described in the next section. |
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=== Editing comments === |
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====Others' comments ==== |
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It is not necessary to bring talk pages to publishing standards, so there is no need to correct typing errors, grammar, etc. It tends to irritate the users whose comments you are correcting. ''Do not strike out the comments of other editors without their permission.'' |
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''Never'' edit someone's words to change their meaning, even on your own talk page. Editing others' comments is sometimes allowed, but you should exercise caution in doing so. Some examples of appropriately editing others' comments: |
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* If you have their permission |
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* Removing '''prohibited material''' such as libel and personal details |
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* Deleting material not relevant to improving the article (per the above subsection ]). |
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* Removing '''personal attacks''' and ''']'''. This is controversial, and many editors do not feel it is acceptable; please read ] and ] before removing anything. |
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* '''Unsigned comments''': You are allowed to append {{tl|unsigned}} or one of its variants to the end of someone's comment if they have failed to sign it. The form is <nowiki>{{subst:unsigned|USER NAME OR IP|DATE AND TIME}}</nowiki>, which results in <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]){{#if:DATE AND TIME| DATE AND TIME|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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* '''Interruptions:''' In some cases, it is OK to interrupt a long contribution, either with a short comment (as a reply to a minor point) or with a heading (if the contribution introduces a new topic). In that case, add "<nowiki><small></nowiki>Heading added to (reason) by <nowiki>~~~~</small></nowiki>"). In such cases, please add <nowiki>{{subst:</nowiki>]|USER NAME OR IP<nowiki>}}</nowiki> before the interruption. |
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* When a long comment has '''formatting errors''', rendering it difficult to read. In this case, restrict the edits to formatting changes only and preserve the content as much as possible. Generally, page formatting can be fixed as well (i.e. to move a new comment from the top of a page to the bottom and adding a header to the comment). |
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* On your own ], you may remove others' comments, although ] is generally preferred. |
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*If a signature violates the ]. |
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* In the past it was standard practice to ] talk pages, although this practice has fallen somewhat into disuse. |
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* If a thread has veered off its original subject, it may be desirable to '''split threads''', especially if the new topic is deemed to merit extensive discussion. When part of a discussion is made into its own thread, the new thread should include an opening sentence or paragraph explaining the reason for the move and containing a link to the original thread. As well, a note should be placed at the location the discussion was moved ''from'', with a link to the new thread. It is also important that the format of the existing discussion remains essentially the same. Simple cutting and pasting will not always ensure that this happens; a bit of reformatting may be necessary. When splitting a thread, '''always''' preview how your changes appear and check to see whether the flow of the thread remains the same as it was previously (i.e. that all replies are in the correct places.) Splitting a thread should '''not''' in any way alter the meaning of any comments therein; hence the need for links, proper formatting, and an explanation. |
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* '''Section headers''': Because threads are shared by multiple users, the original title becomes communal property. To avoid disputes it is best to discuss changes with the editor who started the thread, if possible, but it is generally acceptable to change section headers when a better header is appropriate. This is under the purview of threads themselves being shared property rather than a single editor's comments. |
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====Own comments==== |
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{{shortcut|WP:REDACT|WP:REDACTED}} |
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It is best to avoid changing your own comments. Other users may have already quoted you with a diff (see above) or have otherwise responded to your statement. Therefore, use "Show preview" and think about how your amended statement may look to others before you save it. |
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Altering a comment after it has been replied to robs the reply of its original context. It can also be confusing. Before you change, consider taking one of the following steps: |
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* Contact the person(s) who replied (through their talk page) and ask if it is okay to delete or change your text. |
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* use strike-through or a place-holder to show the comment has been altered. |
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** Strike-through is typed <nowiki><s>like this</s></nowiki> and ends up <s>like this</s>. |
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** A placeholder is a phrase such as "". This will ensure that your fellow editors' irritated responses still make sense. In turn, they may then wish to replace their reply with something like, "" |
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** '''Please''' do not apply strike-through to other editors' comments without permission. |
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=====Creating a communal property section===== |
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Occasionally it may be helpful to make a talk page section into communal property, so that other users have the prerogative to edit it just for the purpose of improving it. Examples of this include lists of potential sources or subtopics for the article, or just a proposed addition to the article (if the article is locked, for instance.) A talk page section becomes communal property if it is signed it with five tildes (<nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki>) instead of four, as your username is then hidden. But do not include in this comments which others have already made without receiving their permission. |
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===Disputes=== |
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If you are having a disagreement or a problem with someone's behavior, please read ]. |
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==Technical and format standards== |
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===Layout=== |
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===Layout=== |
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*'''Start new topics at the bottom of the page''': If you put a post at the top of the page, it is confusing and can easily be overlooked. The latest topic should be the one at the bottom of the page. Then the next post will go underneath yours and so on. This makes it easy to see the chronological order of posts. A quick way to do this is to use the + tab next to the edit button on the talk page you are on. |
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*'''Start new topics at the bottom of the page''': If you put a post at the top of the page, it is confusing and can easily be overlooked. The latest topic should be the one at the bottom of the page. Then the next post will go underneath yours and so on. This makes it easy to see the chronological order of posts. A quick way to do this is to use the + tab next to the edit button on the talk page you are on. |
