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Spoken Misplaced Pages reviews

Hi Maedin! I have finally got round to posting a reply to your 20 July 2008 questions at the Spoken Misplaced Pages talk page. Please see my comments there; I would like to listen to the article in question and give some guidance. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 12:54, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

My response at Hassocks5489's talk page

Hi again. Sorry I've taken a bit longer than I expected to respond. The first thing to say is that I entirely agree with and support your concerns, and the observations you made about specific deficiencies. At this time I have only listened to Part 1; the impression I got from the beginning was certainly that it "sounded like the first read-through, and even then by someone who is unfamiliar or uncomfortable with reading aloud", as you said. Specific deficiencies are:

• The non-standard comments at the beginning
• The rather hurried pacing and lack of sufficient pauses between sentences and between paragraphs
• The use of inflection in a way which fails to convey the nuances of the text, and which is sometimes in fact misleading
• The frequent mis-reads, which should always be edited out or re-read to remove them. Mis-reads and pauses, while an inevitable part of the narration process, should never make it into a finished and uploaded recording, because they are very distracting for a reader
• Technical problems: although the recording is correctly produced in Mono at 44100 Hertz, it has a very low audio level. I have opened the file in Audacity to analyse it, and the spectrogram—I think that's the right name for it! :)—is very low, with little body above or below the 0.0 line. The audio level would need to be amplified somewhat. Also, there are various background noises—both one-off clicks/thumps and longer periods of low-level noise and scratchiness. I noticed one at 18:03 in Part 1, for example
• Frequent unclear enunciation and some mispronunciations. A recommendation I would always make to spoken article contributors is to read through the article in search of potentially awkward or non-standard pronunciations, and research them before starting the narration—for example, by enlisting the help of a foreign-language speaker (perhaps relevant for an article like this, as you say), by checking online resources such as the Merriam-Webster online dictionary (which offers audio pronunciations of most words), by just Googling around or by checking a printed dictionary. I have often found that entering <word> pronunciation or "<word> is pronounced" in Google turns up something useful. Anyway, I digress!

Sadly, even with careful editing and audio enhancement in Audacity or similar, it would be very difficult to improve these audio files enough for them to be properly usable as a Spoken article. What next, then? Some other observations I've made on the contributions of the uploader, Pordaria (talk · contribs): he uploaded a fair number of spoken articles at around the same time, all on Near/Middle Eastern topics (particularly "History of..." articles). There has been no spoken article activity, and sporadic editing activity, since then (March/April 2008), so there is no certainty over whether he is aiming to continue providing recordings. None are shown on the pending list. It is likely that the other audio files also suffer from problems, and some of the accompanying articles are high-traffic ones (for example, Middle East got ~100,000 visitors in March 2008); therefore some of the audio files are likely to have been listened to by a fair number of users. My view is that Pordaria should be alerted to our concerns on his talk page, indicating that although the time and effort etc. are noted and appreciated, we feel that it may be better to remove the spoken articles pending re-recording (you mentioned you considered removal; I agree with that). Also, if he would like advice, help etc. with how to record spoken articles, we/I should offer that freely. There are valid arguments in favour of removing the files immediately without notification—not least the lack of a spoken GFDL licence statement; however it seems reasonable that we make an effort to avoid discouraging a clearly enthusiastic contributor who has the potential to become a provider of good-quality narrations if certain improvements are made.

I seem to have written an essay there—aagh! :) Do let me know your thoughts on how to proceed. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 21:45, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

My response at Hassocks5489's talk

Hi again! Just to say I haven't forgotten this issue, and I hope to revisit it over the weekend and make further comment here. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 21:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello again; oh dear, I didn't manage the weekend, but finally I have some time now. (Have been spending ages over at WP:DYK this week; also off-Misplaced Pages I write a monthly column for a specialist publication, and my self-imposed deadline for the next one was today!) Anyway, I have listened to the most recent recording, Islamic feminism. There are some improvements, but problems such as lack of introduction and licence statements remain. May I suggest that you draft a piece for his talk page reflecting the concerns discussed above, then I will have a look and we can post it jointly? You could post it here or at my talk page first, then we could move it to Pordaria's. We can then decide what to do next depending on his response. Also, when it comes to removing the files, it may be wise to "comment them out" (hide the links from normal view, but still show them in the edit window; this is done by putting <!-- --> round the links) rather than delete them outright, otherwise it could be misinterpreted as vandalism or accidental deletion. We can come to that later anyway. I should have a bit more time from here on, so I'll try to respond as soon as I see your next reply. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 21:35, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

My response at Hassocks5489's talk

Hi Maedin! OK, I have carefully read your proposed message a couple of times and have made some minor additions, and I'm fully comfortable with what we're saying and how we're saying it. I've added my signature, and you can now move it across to Pordaria's talk (or I'll do so if you prefer). Again, thanks very much for composing this! I'll put both his and your talk pages on my watch list so I can check responses quickly. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:53, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Black Seminoles Spoken Article Review

Thanks so much for the detailed review. It seems that editing audio problems have plagued me during recording. I think they are better now, but then again, it's not like I noticed them initially. I do appreciate the detail of your review but don't kill yourself making them so detailed, unless you really like to do it. I think what is important is a general idea of good points and things that need improvement. Me, if someone had a lot of mistakes, I would only point out a few and ask them to redo the whole section or whatever. But, that's all my opinion. As a reader, I appreciate the detail. As a reviewer, I'm not sure I'd be willing to put the same amount of work in (and thus I don't do it, LOL).

I do realize that reading every section, even if I am not reading the contents (like Notes, References, etc.) is a bit annoying. Honestly, it's annoying to read. However, I tend to look at this from the perspective of a blind person or someone who is not looking at the article when listening. I think it is important to let the person know what types of additional information is available (and, as such, if they need to use a regular HTML page reader for any section). External links are read because of something I remember reading initially in the instructions for the readers. I wouldn't mind reading something more general, if someone were to write something up. I definitely don't like the article to end right after the subject material is over.

Thanks again! PopularOutcast 11:47, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

My response at Popular Outcast's talk

Adoption

Hi there. I saw your adoption request in the category and I would offer to adopt you; if you are still seeking and want me to adopt you, please leave me a message at my talk page. If you are not seeking adoption anymore, you should remove the userbox. Regards SoWhy 19:44, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

My response at SoWhy's talk

skittles

		The Original Barnstar
		For a keen eye and helping to fix the skittles page! Ottawa4ever (talk) 21:31, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Your first Barnstar, congratulations! :-) SoWhy 21:36, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

omg, I got a barnstar! I feel delirious, lol! Maedin\ 14:34, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

My response at Ottawa4ever's talk

Remember, that you can give them out yourself, see WP:BS to find the right one for each occasion. I advise you to be bold in doing so: If you notice someone doing some great feat, go ahead and give them a Barnstar. It usually motivates people and makes them feel that their edits are appreciated. SoWhy 16:57, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Monobook.js

Hey, just a short tip: As your monobook.js is a JavaScript file, there is no sense in using <nowiki></nowiki>. If you want to comment out an entry, you ought to use // as you can see with my monobook.js. Have a nice day :-) SoWhy 09:01, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I didn't think it would even work when I did it, but it did the job so I left it there :) Thank you for telling me how to make it more appropriate. I got tired of the bold lettering on edits that showed up when I used that script, it was too obtrusive for my tastes. Wanted to turn it off! Cheers, Maedin\ 10:05, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Sure, no problem, I just noticed it. As I keep on saying: We live and learn. And mostly we only do so because other people tell us to :-) SoWhy 10:18, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I had trouble deciding where to put the talkback. Before or after your header, which do you prefer? Maedin\ 10:24, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I usually place it at the very top if possible, because it is not intented to stay but to be easily removed after being noticed :-) SoWhy 10:27, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Is and are

Thanks for the message, but in this case, I am going to have to disagree. While, of course, the team is a singular entity, "The Calgary Flames is..." is a remarkably awkward statement and one that is not in common use in Canadian/American English. Sports teams are almost always referred to using the plural form rather than the singular. I suspect this is mainly a difference in dialect and usage between British and Canadian English. Regards, Resolute 19:59, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

My response at Resolute's talk

*bleats* ^^

Oops, apologies; I neglected to reply earlier - bad habit, that. You beat me to the fix quite easily in the end given that I was staring blankly at the "dif"s without being able to spot the one of yours that I'd lost: slap-bang in the middle of those changes...

Anyhows; onwards! Keep up the good work (looks like you're having fun from those contribs of yours *g*) & Have a good week. :)

Cheers, David. Harami2000 (talk) 02:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

My comment at Harami2000's talk

Rollback granted

After reviewing your request for rollback, I have enabled rollback on your account. Keep in mind these things when going to use rollback:

• Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
• Rollback can be used to revert vandalism only, and not good faith edits.
• Rollback may be removed at any time.

If you no longer want rollback, then contact me and I'll remove it. Also, for some information on how to use rollback, you can view this page. I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, just leave me a message if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of rollback. Happy editing! –xeno (talk) 17:41, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

My response at Xeno's talk

Barnstar

Thank you very much for that Barnstar, Maedin. It's as nice as it was unexpected. I haven't been exactly "cultured, intelligent, capable, and well-spoken" or particularly civil during my Wiki-crisis of the past couple months. :-) I hope you find contributing here to be rewarding. Cheers! Dekkappai (talk) 19:24, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Prerana Shah

Why is it because she was not the winner of Miss Nepal for something but look at other girls like Mika Hagi this page is not even said the biography about this girl. so please stop deleting my pages. Thanks(NepaliBoy7 (talk) 09:11, 14 September 2008 (UTC))

My response at NepaliBoy7's talk

Hello

You are "adopted" by So Why me too um, er well yeah just wanted to say hi.No Hollaback Girl (talk) 03:53, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

My response at No Hollaback Girl's talk

wow thats pretty awesome anyways Thanks for replying i like it when people talk to me and sowhy has been very helpful. :)No Hollaback Girl (talk) 07:36, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks, Maedin. Yes, that was some sort of odd vandalism. Reports of my goodbye to the world are highly exaggerated. (At least I don't think I had that much to drink last night... :-) Regards. Dekkappai (talk) 18:04, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

My RfA

Thank you for supporting me in my RfA, which passed with a count of (154/3/2). I appreciate the community's trust in me, and I will do my best to be sure it won't regret handing me the mop. I am honored by your trust and your support. Again, thank you. –Juliancolton 19:34, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

review of audio for Supply and demand

Just re-posting my reply to your comment on my talkpage:

I'm fine with a detailed review. I'd like if you would be able to prioritize the critique though. E.g., things which are "must fix," things which "should be fixed but aren't as critical," and "tips for next time." Also, I am editing this using GarageBand for Mac, and converting the .m4a to .ogg with Switch. If there are quality issues with the encoding there, I would appreciate any technical tips or software recommendations to help. Huadpe (talk) 08:23, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

My responses at Huadpe's talk

Saw your post at the help desk

and is the reason why I was there. My watchlist has also not updated since about 03:40 GMT. Interesting... E_dog95' 09:05, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

My response at E_Dog95's talk

On Pordaria's sound files

Hello again! With no response received yet to our shared concerns, we had better think about removing or commenting-out the series of spoken articles we investigated. I'm away for 6 days from tomorrow, so perhaps we should proceed after that? Let me know your thoughts. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 11:07, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

My response at Hassocks5489's talk

Hiya; I now have more time again after a hectic couple of weeks. It's a fair point that WP should be "a community that improves upon each other's work", but the problem is it's a lot more difficult to do that with sound files—you really need access to the original raw data to edit it properly, and another person can't really make additions because the voices will be inconsistent. Anyway, I suppose I could have a go at downloading, editing and re-uploading one of the existing files. If you get a chance, perhaps you could try re-recording and uploading one (I remember what you said about being able to get help with pronunciations)? If one of us leaves a note to that effect on Pordaria's talk page, he will kept up to date. Let me know what you think. Best, Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 11:29, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Your comments about Buckshot and Tadakuni RfAs

You're right on the money. Perception/PR at RfA is very important. Facts matter a lot less than they should. An off-the-cuff remark can haunt an applicant forever; look at Kww's RfA. VG ☎ 20:10, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure that my comments were right on the money; I certainly regret them now. Not regret them in an "Oh my god, I can't believe I did that" sort of way, but in a "why did I waste my time on searching through his contributions when I obviously came up with the wrong answer after all?" sort of way. I do not think that lone comments should actually count against users as much as they sometimes do, and pushing bad press as a result of linking to that example wasn't my intent. I felt that it came as a mild negative amongst other uninspiring things, and was thinking "neutral" overall. But little things like that amongst uninspiring things turn into vehement opposes on a different user, hence my utter confusion. I lurk around RfA a lot but am very rarely inclined to comment, and even more so now.

I really appreciate you coming to my talk page to make reference to it though and voicing some support; I wasn't just talking to myself after all! Thank you, :-) Maedin\ 16:42, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

RE:Your signature

Thank you very much for the note. I'll change my signature into something more functional, yet more appealing, to keep browsers from crashing. Thanks for the note.  Marlith (Talk)  21:52, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

My comment at Marlith's talk

dates

Oops, second report today of the wrong format. I do try hard to assess each article correctly, and a lot of them have the wrong format to start with. You're perfectly right, and I apologise. And it was well formatted anyway, without inconsistencies.

But now I see our old friend User Tennis expert has been stalking me and reverting. Someone else has just stepped in since, but naturally enough re-reverted to my faulty version. I'll convert to the correct format now, once, but I dislike intensely edit conflicts over this matter. I'd be pleased if you took it up with Tennis expert yourself if he returns to impose his ownership on the article. I'm outa there, wishing the editors goodwill and going on to make improvements where they're appreciated! Most of his colleagues at WikiProject Tennis don't agree with his extreme stance. Tony (talk) 13:26, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

My responses at Tony's talk

Tennis date delinking

Hi Maedin. I noticed you were interested in starting a discussion about delinking/relinking dates in tennis articles - well I tried that a month ago - you can see the discussion here. Basically, from the folks involved in the discussion there was support for delinking in accordance with the manual of style. But unfortunately User:Tennis expert doesn't wish for WP:TENNIS articles to follow the WP:MOS and so the project is stuck. I was shocked to find that it has just two FAs, and worse still, they're both about video games (Mario Power Tennis and Wii Sports). I was hoping the tennis fraternity could get together and try to improve articles and really get the project on the Misplaced Pages map but I think most of the editors there have left over these debates over linking and nomenclature. Good luck with your discussion. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:52, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

My response at The Rambling Man's talk

Indeed. All I've ever advocated was adherence to the WP:MOS and some common sense (e.g. what is the point in filling a page with links that are not relevant to the article?). All the best, The Rambling Man (talk) 10:51, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Tennis pest

Hi Maedin—you may wish to contribute here, perhaps after the person concerned makes a post: Talk:Cédric_Pioline#Inviting_Tennis_expert_to_put_his_case. Cheers Tony (talk) 09:56, 18 October 2008 (UTC)