| Revision as of 12:58, 21 October 2008 editMdd (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users54,571 edits →A new Software Engineering Template← Previous edit | Revision as of 00:07, 22 October 2008 edit undoOicumayberight (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users6,439 edits →A new Software Engineering Template: replyNext edit → | ||
| Line 42: | Line 42: | ||
| ::I have responded on the Talk:Software engineering -- ] (]) 12:58, 21 October 2008 (UTC) | ::I have responded on the Talk:Software engineering -- ] (]) 12:58, 21 October 2008 (UTC) | ||
| :::You can try to oversimplify it by saying that software engineering is the main discipline. I'm sure there are product developers and project managers that would disagree with you, but that's beside the point. The point is that software development is multidisciplinary. You're trying to pull the disciplines of "software development" that have little to do with engineering under the umbrella of "software engineering" as if those functions are a less important subclass of engineering. The article and the template are titled "software development process", not "software engineering process". You are just in denial that development is broader in scope than engineering. ] (]) 00:07, 22 October 2008 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 00:07, 22 October 2008
Where to use this template
It seems to me that this template belongs on all the pages in the activities and models section, but not always the supporting disciplines -- some of the latter, like Project management, are more general than software. --David.alex.lamb 21:39, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
XP = Agile
Since eXtreme is an Agile method, why is it listed as a sub-process as opposed to say Scrum or any other other Agile methods and approaches? --Walter Görlitz 04:29, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
- Only because it was much more commonly mentioned than other agile methods at the time I created the entry. If it is now no more common than any other, perhaps it should go -- but I'm not inclined to do so myself just yet. David.alex.lamb 07:25, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Well - someone should remove it, since right now the structure is wrong and misleading 84.112.16.84 11:53, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
confused with MIS
So what is the difference between Software development process and Management Information System...???＠＠???? --Ramu50 (talk) 23:10, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
- One describes a process exclusively for developing software; the other describes a process for managing information that may or may not include software development. Oicumayberight (talk) 20:30, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Software engineering added in the title
I have (re)added Software engineering in the templates title. I think the Software development process is the hart of software engineering and visa versa. Templates like this should state it's domain.
I admit though, that the dubble title isn't perfect. Maybe it is a solution to recreate this template as a horizontal collapsable Software engineering template. This template will have the main scope, but will have the option to give a better overview of all aspects related to the Software development process. I think the current template is rather limited in scope. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 08:29, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
- I strongly disagree: There are parts of the software development process that are obviously not the domain of "engineering". In the book "Great Software Debates", Alan M. Davis states in the chapter "Requirements", subchapter "The Missing Piece of Software Development":
| “ | Students of engineering learn engineering and are rarely exposed to finance or marketing. Students of marketing learn marketing and are rarely exposed to finance or engineering. Most of us become specialists in just one area. To complicate matters, few of us meet interdisciplinary people in the workforce, so there are few roles to mimic. Yet, software product planning is critical to the development success and absolutely requires knowledge of multiple disciplines. | ” |
- Software engineering was listed in the template as a related discipline. By making it the title of the template, your implying that everything in the template (every step of the software development process) falls under the category of engineering, as if all product researchers, developers and marketers should report to someone with the title of "software engineer". Oicumayberight (talk) 20:14, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
- I am not going to refer you again. I am going to replace this whole template by a software engineering template sone, but I am going to do some more research first. The problem here is not the software engineering in the title, but the whole very selective view the template is offering on the software development process.
- Now I already stated that I believe that the Software development process is the central issue software engineering. This is not just a related issue. Your reference to a subchapter in one book about software development debates makes no sense to me. There are dozens of introduction books about software engineering. Do you want to tell me, that those books are not about software engineering? -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 21:53, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not denying that there are books about software engineering. That doesn't contradict the argument made by Alan Davis. If you are making the case that software engineering is part of the software development process, then I agree. If you are making the case that software development is summed up by software engineering, then I strongly disagree. Oicumayberight (talk) 08:35, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
- I don't know exactly what you mean with "summed up". But stating that there are books about software engineering is rather an understatement. There is an over 40 years tradition here. If you are interested you should take a look at the original two The NATO Software Engineering Conferences - reports from 1968 and 1969 rapports. This already focusses on what they have called the systems development proces of large-scale software systems. In recent Software engineering (study) books you still find the similair scope. But I first going to study some more about want happened in the main time. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 10:09, 18 October 2008 (UTC
- In simple mathematical engineering terms: Software Development ≠ Software Engineering. Software Development > Software Engineering. Software Development = Software Engineering + Marketing + many other multidisciplinary skills. Oicumayberight (talk) 00:15, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
- This is just on theory, which doesn't fit the practice. I can show you a dozend Software Engineering books which introduces the field and are build around the Software development process. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 20:20, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
A new Software Engineering Template
I designed a new Software Engineering Template to replace this template, see Template talk:Software Engineering. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 20:20, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
- I disagree that it should replace this template. This template is about a multidisciplinary process that includes software engineering but is not summed up by software engineering. Software engineering describes a skill that evolves much faster than any one process. You are doing both software engineers and those who work with software engineers a disservice by trying to monopolize all the software development terminology under the umbrella of "software engineering." Oicumayberight (talk) 03:00, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
- I have responded on the Talk:Software engineering here -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 12:58, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
- You can try to oversimplify it by saying that software engineering is the main discipline. I'm sure there are product developers and project managers that would disagree with you, but that's beside the point. The point is that software development is multidisciplinary. You're trying to pull the disciplines of "software development" that have little to do with engineering under the umbrella of "software engineering" as if those functions are a less important subclass of engineering. The article and the template are titled "software development process", not "software engineering process". You are just in denial that development is broader in scope than engineering. Oicumayberight (talk) 00:07, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
- Alan M. Davis. Great Software Debates (October 8, 2004), pp:125-128 Wiley-IEEE Computer Society Press