Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:18, 29 November 2008

This is Jehochman's talk page, where you can send him messages and comments.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed

Archives: Index, Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24Auto-archiving period: 7 days

Template:ACE2008Candidate Please leave a new message. I answer posts on the same page. Please follow Strunk & White's advice, "Omit needless words!" Coachees: See User talk:Jehochman/Coaching. Cursing: For incivility on this page, you must add at least one (correct) inline reference to gamma ray burst or SS Edmund Fitzgerald. Unblocks: If I block a user, any administrator is free to refactor the block unless I have specifically requested contacting me first. Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. Bickering is not entertained on this page. Trolls will be eaten by User:Bishzilla.

I am responding back to your message. I have not put any article without reference. Please help me understand --Sap ip (talk) 23:54, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Personal Attack

Could you please remove the personal attack directed against me and Domer here and here thanks. BigDunc 12:09, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Those are not personal attacks. They are accusations, possibly false. Your best response is to ignore them. The user is apparently trying to stir up drama. Be a smart fish. Jehochman 12:16, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Your behaviour today on this matter IMO was disgraceful you protected a page with a defamatory comment on it about myself against wikipedia policy and you warn the mediator that is dealing with this policy breach about edit warring. This is not the the behaviour of an admin standing for arb election. BigDunc 20:26, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Being a mediator does not exempt one from the prohibition against edit warring, and if you check the pages again, you can see that the personal attacks were removed a few minutes after the protection--by me. Jehochman 20:13, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

No I won't chill you only removed derogatory statement because the editor agreed to the removal if he had said no you would have left it and protected the page. The mediator was trying to do his job and mediate, you just ignored my concern when I brought it too you. You reverted my edits and warn me on my page when I asked other admin aware of the situation to remove them. The edit war between the mediator and Thunderer was caused by your inaction. BigDunc 20:23, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

The reason The Thunderer agreed to my removal is that I dealt with him nicely, by asking rather than by forcing. That problem is now solved. The best way to solve any problem is through calm discussion and agreement, not by force. Jehochman 20:31, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

And what did I do I asked admins I didn't attempt to remove it. And when did you ask him after I asked you or when the mediator removed it? BigDunc 20:36, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Googlean

Talk to YellowMonkey about it.--Tznkai (talk) 15:49, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Left them a note already. This is one of those situations where I think there is good evidence to support the actions taken. Jehochman 15:56, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Page protection

Yes please. I am now being threatened. Thunderer (talk) 16:42, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

ArbCom questions

Hi. I'm Ral315, editor of the Misplaced Pages Signpost. We're interviewing all ArbCom candidates for an article this week, and your response is requested.

1. What positions do you hold (adminship, mediation, etc.), on this or other wikis?

2. Have you been involved in any arbitration cases? In what capacity?

3. Why are you running for the Arbitration Committee?

4. How do you feel the Arbitration Committee has handled cases and other situations over the last year? Can you provide an examples of situations where you feel the Committee handled a situation exceptionally well, and why? Any you feel they handled poorly, and why?

5. What is your opinion on confidentiality? If evidence is submitted privately to the Committee, would you share it with other parties in the case? Would you make a decision based on confidential information without making it public?

6. Why do you think users should vote for you?

Please respond on my talk page. We'll probably go to press on Tuesday, but late responses will be added as they're submitted. Thanks, Ral315 (talk) 10:25, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Krzyzowiec

Thank you for your comments in this AN/I thread, I really appreciate them. Personally, I think that dedicated POV warriors, especially with ethno-centric and nationalistic agendas, like this guy, are the worst bane of Misplaced Pages. I do wish the community took a firmer stance against this sort of thing. Thanks again, Nsk92 (talk) 15:20, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

New IP Vandal

• 86.156.214.36 (talk · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))

This user has such a huge range that it is scary.

Thegreyanomaly (talk) 01:31, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Most of their attacking grounds have been semiprotected, so the page he is attacking are getting narrow Thegreyanomaly (talk) 01:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Could you gather up a list of these IPs from my talk page and file a new WP:SSP report. I'd like to have a checkuser look at it and see if we can get a better range block in place. I need a checkuser to help design the blocks to minimize impacts on innocent users. Let's try to do a thorough job. Leave me a link when you are done, and also ping User:Rlevse. Thank you. Jehochman 03:01, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I have begun the workings of the report. It took a long time to create the list of IPs. Considering that I have lot of homework due the week after Thanksgiving, I probably won't submit it until around December 5th. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 22:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Oversite

WP:OVERSITE is clear on this: This feature is approved for use in three cases:

  1. Removal of non-public personal information, such as phone numbers, home addresses, workplaces or identities of pseudonymous or anonymous individuals who have not made their identity public.
  2. Removal of potentially libelous information, either: a) on the advice of Wikimedia Foundation counsel; or b) when the subject has specifically asked for the information to be expunged from the history, the case is clear, and there is no editorial reason to keep the revision.
  3. Removal of copyright infringement, on the advice of Wikimedia Foundation counsel.

Hidden revisions remain accessible to Oversight users through the log, and can be restored by a developer if a mistake was made.

Oversight removal is not used on usual vandalism—even egregious and offensive vandalism—unless it is one of the above. Oversight is for material that should not be available even to an admin.

If the Arbitration Committee feels that an editor has abused oversight by hiding revisions which do not qualify under one of the above criteria, they will immediately request a Steward to remove the permission from the editor.

I have seen edits claimed to be the oversigtted text - they are pretty tame.

But why oversighted after a user was asked to provide diffs of them? That is strange. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.182.158.153 (talk) 22:11, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

G'day j, again

and I hope you're well. I saw that you were interested in shedding some light on some of the ugliness around the wiki at the moment - I'm a bit sick of some of the secrecy, and general nastiness, and maybe you are too by now, and if so, feel free to remove this message or whatever, and I'll shuffle along. I've chatted privately with FT about this previously, and personally don't consider if big huge deal, rather it's just a small and possibly relevant question; Would it matter if this edit made some weeks previous to last years arbcom election, were in fact made by FT? - I've come to believe that it was, and that it represents a 'CoI' edit demonstrating poor judgment. I'd rather talk things through with you than contribute to any of the disastrous noticeboard and talk page threads around the place, if you're so inclined, then get in touch, otherwise I'll let it lie. cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 01:08, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

How do you know it is not a Joe job? It's too late for checkuser. Best not to bring it up at all if it can't be proven. Jehochman 01:12, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I dunno about the proof - but I feel fairly sure that it is the case - I don't think FT would deny it really, to be honest, and I'd always assumed that the arbcom, or some other admin.s were well aware of some sensible reasons for FT to use an alternate account for that edit, however I do think it's not really on. It's just one part of a bigger picture no doubt, mind. Privatemusings (talk) 01:15, 25 November 2008 (UTC)available in IRC if you fancy...

Why don't you just ask him, via email? Jehochman 01:46, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh we've talked about it privately at some length - FT's always been very willing to chat, which is great. FT has stated clearly to me that he feels he has never abused the wiki in any way - I'm just not sure that I can totally agree, in the context. Personally, I think this sort of thing makes a bit of a difference, and wondered what you thought..... :-) Privatemusings (talk) 01:50, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

If that were him, the edit probably would not be against policy. COI editing is discouraged, not forbidden. Disruption is forbidden, and persistent violations of WP:NPOV are forbidden. If he's not being disruptive, and not violating neutrality, the edit is acceptable, though it might not be the highest standard of conduct. We need to tolerate that our fellows will make an occasional mistake. Jehochman 01:54, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Good enough for me, J'hoch.... I'll leave that one, and the election 07 stuff, there.... thanks for letting me steal some of your time - can I offer some wiki-gnoming as a thank you? Name an article if you like.... :-) cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 02:31, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

< sorry about the extra orange bar, J - just popped in, and just had to tweak the wording above! sorry! :-) Privatemusings (talk) 09:55, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Seek your advice about constant harassment

Hello, Jehochman. I come here to seek your advice from your long experience dealing with user's behaviors, especially incivility and personal attacks. I've had very hard time for some user's constant trolling and personal attacks in my wiki experience (worst than any other sockpuppeter's harassment campaigns ever). He is named Tenmei (talk · contribs) and we first began conflicting for his nom of AFDs on a Japan-Korea related article in the middle of merger discussion with me. Moreover, he turned the page to a personal attack site on me, so I filed ANI on his conducts. He was not blocked due to his toooooooo lengthy and unintelligible notes even though he also was reported for the similar behaviors to users including admins. After that he has been hounding around me, and seems like he does not get over the report. We also have been disputing over a primary topic over Yonsei and a validity of Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei) being here. He has left lengthy and trollish comments against me on relevant talk pages or several noticeboards or went forum shopping to editors as "demonizing me" with inappropriate languages over and over. He has falsely accused me of making hoaxes (he stroke his own comments on that but still keeps making such) I have tried to ignore his constant provocations and personal attacks, or gave him warning or said nice in hope for him to behave better, but things get worse. I found this comment very upsetting although that is a rather mild level compared to his usual attacks along with his trolling. What do you think I can resolve this constant attacks from the user? Thanks.--Caspian blue

• a few examples

This user's limited grasp of English usage renders this conclusory argument suspect.. There disambiguation page was nothing but a contrived gambit,

The oblique purpose of this thread is to distract attention from yet another variant wiki-hoax contrived by Caspian blue at Yonsei.

Help and advice

Jehochman could you please have a look at this here. Dunc and myself along with the mediatior are discussing this very issue of reverting at mediation here, and is starting to cause major frustration with editors. Since leaving, Thunderer has made 17 reverts, including the edit war with the Mediator. On the North Irish Horse article with 4 reverts now, it’s the very same issue which resulted in your 7 3RR reports and the trip to AE. AE did offer advice, all of which is ignored. This recent revert spree is disrupting the current mediation, and unless addressed will force it to close. If you don't feel you can help, could you at least offer me some suggetions on how I can address this, and restore confidence in the mediation, thanks, --Domer48_'fenian' 13:49, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I've left a warning. Jehochman 14:11, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that, it should help. --Domer48_'fenian' 14:18, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

It appears it has not made a blind bit of difference at all judging by this here. Would I bit not better of just filing a 3RR report? --Domer48_'fenian' 16:03, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Just ignore it. I believe that allowing the m:Wrong version will be beneficial. Any problems can be fixed a bit later. Jehochman 16:06, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I’m sorry Jehochman but burying my head in the sand while the mediation goes to pot is not an option. While I’ve asked Sunray the mediator to clarify their comments, it appears that we need all participants to the mediation or its back to AE. Now to me, that is bang out of order, I put a lot of effort into it, and it seems now it is all time wasted. Very annoyed and disappointed. --Domer48_'fenian' 20:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

diff

Hi Jehochman, thanks for the note on my page. The page was sort of a not-ready-for-primetime draft, so the thoughts aren't all fully fleshed out. I'm aware that there was at one point (I don't know if there still is) a bit of bad blood between you and Elonka. I don't know the background at all, so my observation that it may make the candidacy a non-starter should not be read as me saying I think you've done anything wrong. I don't know the circumstances. I was making the observation that bitter controversies in the past can make it tough for candidates--as I'm sure you've thought through.

The comment on BLP refers to a comment I only vaguely remember, that, as you edit with your real name, some comments about you are potentially BLP violations. I had intended to find this diff, and the circumstances, and the exact language, but had not done so before my page was discovered. This is a tough line for me to draw: which of these are BLP violations? "Jay Henry is wrong here", "Jay Henry is almost always wrong", "Jay Henry is a bad editor", "He basically plagiarized that article", "Jay Henry uploaded a copyvio", "Jay Henry is the worst editor on the project", "Jay Henry is not smart", "I feel like Jay Henry is harassing me", "Jay Henry is harassing me", "he seems to be pushing a pro-nazi POV with his edits", "Jay Henry is a pro-nazi POV pusher", "I think he is basically a nazi", "Jay Henry is a nazi", "he is apparently a pro-pedophile activist, or at least sympathetic to their cause", "Jay Henry owns a large collection of nazi pedophilia."

This is the basic gist of my concern. --JayHenry (talk) 01:27, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I had a long chat about the BLP matter with some other admins on IRC, and came to the conclusion that I was wrong completely. Biography of living persons is relevant primarily for article subjects. Anything to do with Misplaced Pages editors is better handled with reference to no personal attacks.

The conflict I had with Elonka was regrettable. For some time I have avoided on wiki involvements with her in order to prevent any sort of disruption, therefore, I will avoid commenting further. Should I be elected I would obviously recuse from all matters related to her. Jehochman 01:39, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Ah, okay. I had intended to look into this more before voting, but I'm glad you found the page and saved me the work digging through contrib logs. I agree NPA is a better policy for this issue. It's also reasonable, I do think, that there's a somewhat different onus when you're talking about editors who edit under their real names/are easily identifiable. I've not read your questions yet (I will) and don't intend personally to give whatever history you have with Elonka much weight. --JayHenry (talk) 02:00, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Blocked candidates discussion

WT:ACE2008#Blocked candidates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=254270021.

Please note that I have have offered a belated response to you in the discussion we held a few days ago on delisting candidates because they were blocked. Apologies for the delay in responding: I had not noticed your last reply to me until only a moment ago. (It was not a snubbing of you, I promise!)

Best regards, Jonathan. —AGK 18:37, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Jehochman 18:39, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

User talk:96.232.4.4

Can you block this above? This IP has continued to provide unconstructive edits and I sent him several warnings. Thanks! Vernon (Versus22) (talk) 08:10, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

They stopped two minutes after your last warning and have not done anything else. It might take an editors a few minutes to read their talk page after a last warning. Jehochman 01:00, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

RFAR

--Qwerty612 (talk) 07:54, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Libelous claims

Hi !

That's why I asked on the talk-page if the mentioned sources (court-documents and atleast two primary accounts) are sufficient that the allegations should be mentioned. It is tricky to ask such a question without saying what the allegations -are-. I absolutely agree that just because someone claimed something in a court-filing, that's not evidence that something is true. But it -IS- evidence that you have been accused of it.

On the balance I think I agree with you. One can be accused of anything, by anyone, afterall.

My question was asked in good faith. The accusations (which I won't repeat here) do show up high in controversies about the man, second only, I think, to the conflicts with scientology.

--Eivind Kjørstad (talk) 08:57, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

It is a conundrum that to even talk about scandalous accusations can damage an individual's repution. Misplaced Pages is not for poisoning the well, therefore, we do not allow discussions about irrelevant controversies. Had this been reported on by a reputable news source, that might be a different situation. Best regards, Jehochman 14:37, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Sandy - uContribs

Re-running now. I was wondering why no-one had spotted my bug 'til now. (see near the bottom). You spotted my 3-5% error rate. Sighh - there goes Friday night, I have to do every single one now. I blame Casliber, who asked for this in the first place (I think?) and never specified it should be done right. But I do have a note in there saying it's experimental! Franamax (talk) 23:47, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi

Hi! Please note that I have filed a request for appeal here. Comments welcome! Best regards PHG (talk) 16:18, 29 November 2008 (UTC)