Revision as of 19:09, 12 December 2008 editBKLisenbee (talk | contribs)497 edits →user:BKLisenbee's concerns← Previous edit | Revision as of 19:16, 12 December 2008 edit undoBKLisenbee (talk | contribs)497 edits →user:BKLisenbee's concernsNext edit → | ||
Line 23: | Line 23: | ||
(article) Tangier (under people who lived in Tangier, Hamri is described as "the Picasso of Morocco"; only one newspaper article has this, but it seems to be conjecture and wishful thinking. Books have described him as he proclaimed himself on his personal calling/business card which I still have: "Hamri, the Painter of Morocco" The article is one of perhaps hundreds written over the years in newspapers on Tangier, mainly a travel piece, with a bit about Hamri's wife Blanca. She is a long-time resident of the city, but not one of the most important or socially prominent people in the city, having been a secretary for the former headmaster of the American School of Tangier, who died two years ago. | (article) Tangier (under people who lived in Tangier, Hamri is described as "the Picasso of Morocco"; only one newspaper article has this, but it seems to be conjecture and wishful thinking. Books have described him as he proclaimed himself on his personal calling/business card which I still have: "Hamri, the Painter of Morocco" The article is one of perhaps hundreds written over the years in newspapers on Tangier, mainly a travel piece, with a bit about Hamri's wife Blanca. She is a long-time resident of the city, but not one of the most important or socially prominent people in the city, having been a secretary for the former headmaster of the American School of Tangier, who died two years ago. | ||
(article) William S. Burroughs; Burroughs supported Bachir Attar and stated in a letter that Attar was the rightful inheritor of the mantle of leader of the Master Musicians, and his group the only true group. Regardless of any other letter to the contary, this seems to have been Burroughs' final say on the matter. (See this signed letter on the jajouka.com site under documents). For the signed letter by William Burroughs, see this page: http://www.jajouka.com/williamsburroughs.html Jajouka manager Cherie Nutting has the original letter and she can be contacted via the jajouka.com site. | (article) William S. Burroughs; Burroughs supported Bachir Attar and stated in a letter that Attar was the rightful inheritor of the mantle of leader of the Master Musicians, and his group the only true group. Regardless of any other letter to the contary, this seems to have been Burroughs' final say on the matter. (See this signed letter on the jajouka.com site under documents). For the signed letter by William Burroughs, see this page: http://www.jajouka.com/williamsburroughs.html Jajouka manager Cherie Nutting has the original letter and she can be contacted via the jajouka.com site. On this letter http://www.jajouka.com/jajoukaletter2.html on page three, Burroughs assistant describes Hamri as "a complete impostor" and he says that Hamri in opiumjones_23's film Destroy All Rational Thought reveals himself to be a "con man". | ||
(article) Bachir Attar As it currently reads, after much edit-warring, including with other users such Abelekrim, Bachir leads the Master Musicians of Jajouka featuring Bachir Attar. This needs to be corrected throughout Misplaced Pages as he is the the one and only hereditary leader of The Master Musicians of Jajouka, and his father Hadj Abdesalam Attar was the undisputed leader at the time of the Jones recording. There are many book references to this. Bachir lives in the village and many of the musicians still live there, but some live in nearby Ksar-el-Kebir and elsewhere, to earn income since there is no real commercial enterprises in the village other than some farming. Bachir never claimed to lead a "Joujouka" group, and the spelling is a moot point here. He is merely the acknowledged leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and they have toured throughtout the world on many occasions, including 2008 in Canada, and confirmed tours and performances are in the works for 2009. You may add a recent article/interview from Walrus magazine on Bachir Attar and Jajouka, http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/2008/07/09/an-interview-with-bachir-attar/ however, please take note that two links were added to opiumjones_23's Joujouka MySpace site, as well as to his own Joujouka.net via comments. This is the typical modus operandi of opiumjones_23. The article/interview with Bachir Attar about Jajouka are interesting and would be a good link reference, since it is dated December 12, 2008. | (article) Bachir Attar As it currently reads, after much edit-warring, including with other users such Abelekrim, Bachir leads the Master Musicians of Jajouka featuring Bachir Attar. This needs to be corrected throughout Misplaced Pages as he is the the one and only hereditary leader of The Master Musicians of Jajouka, and his father Hadj Abdesalam Attar was the undisputed leader at the time of the Jones recording. There are many book references to this. Bachir lives in the village and many of the musicians still live there, but some live in nearby Ksar-el-Kebir and elsewhere, to earn income since there is no real commercial enterprises in the village other than some farming. Bachir never claimed to lead a "Joujouka" group, and the spelling is a moot point here. He is merely the acknowledged leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and they have toured throughtout the world on many occasions, including 2008 in Canada, and confirmed tours and performances are in the works for 2009. You may add a recent article/interview from Walrus magazine on Bachir Attar and Jajouka, http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/2008/07/09/an-interview-with-bachir-attar/ however, please take note that two links were added to opiumjones_23's Joujouka MySpace site, as well as to his own Joujouka.net via comments. This is the typical modus operandi of opiumjones_23. The article/interview with Bachir Attar about Jajouka are interesting and would be a good link reference, since it is dated December 12, 2008. | ||
Line 45: | Line 45: | ||
The Jajouka spelling of the village is commonly used in the West, in most publications by far, and reputable sources and references, and many books, as Jajouka, and the name of the group is almost always spelled Jajouka. Invariably, these published books have used knowledgeable sources and interviews, including Brian Gysin, to accurately I feel spell the name of both the far more popular group as Jajouka, and it is led by Bachir Attar. William Burroughs said that there was no dispute that Bachir Attar was the only rightful inheritor of the mantle of Leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and you can read that on the official Jajouka.com site under documents. | The Jajouka spelling of the village is commonly used in the West, in most publications by far, and reputable sources and references, and many books, as Jajouka, and the name of the group is almost always spelled Jajouka. Invariably, these published books have used knowledgeable sources and interviews, including Brian Gysin, to accurately I feel spell the name of both the far more popular group as Jajouka, and it is led by Bachir Attar. William Burroughs said that there was no dispute that Bachir Attar was the only rightful inheritor of the mantle of Leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and you can read that on the official Jajouka.com site under documents. | ||
I will also say that this Master Musicians of Jajouka/Joujouka dispute seems to have come about beginning in the 1990s when Mohamed Hamri, a Moroccan painter, who was illiterate and a close friend of Brion Gyin who once lived in Tangier. There is confusion as to the commonly accepted spelling of the village as Jajouka caused by consistent references to a Master Musicians of Joujouka on Misplaced Pages. I had long ago put on a simple MSN Encarta link showing the spelling and precise location of the village on the Jajouka page (for the village). Someone removed this, and for clarity's sake, it really should be there, along with other map references to the village, which I have visited only once. A pronounciation of the village by Mohamed Hamri, who was illiterate, has been used as Joujouka. But it is a pronounciation, not turned into a spelling by opiumjones_23, who knew Hamri well, and his wife, and who has put out a mere 3 CDs using Joujouka as a spelling for his band. But the origin of the spelling may have come from Hamri, and from that point in the early 1950s Brion Gysin first spelled the name of the village and the famous musicians as Joujouka. More important, however, is the fact that both Brion Gysin and William S. Burroughs, who learned of this music through his friend Gysin, in their quoted writings and reliable references in books later spelled the village name and the music group as Jajouka, or Master Musicians of Jajouka. Here are some of the references to the preeminent and commonly used spelling in published books (not tiny pamplets as in the case of the Hamri reference mentioned above, which as I have said, was written by a fraudulent individual claiming to be the inheritor of the King of Ireland, which much has been written about exposing this fact. | I will also say that this Master Musicians of Jajouka/Joujouka dispute seems to have come about beginning in the 1990s when Mohamed Hamri, a Moroccan painter, who was illiterate and a close friend of Brion Gyin who once lived in Tangier. There is confusion as to the commonly accepted spelling of the village as Jajouka caused by consistent references to a Master Musicians of Joujouka on Misplaced Pages. I had long ago put on a simple MSN Encarta link showing the spelling and precise location of the village on the Jajouka page (for the village). Someone removed this, and for clarity's sake, it really should be there, along with other map references to the village, which I have visited only once. A pronounciation of the village by Mohamed Hamri, who was illiterate, has been used as Joujouka. But it is a pronounciation, not turned into a spelling by opiumjones_23, who knew Hamri well, and his wife, and who has put out a mere 3 CDs using Joujouka as a spelling for his band. But the origin of the spelling may have come from Hamri, and from that point in the early 1950s Brion Gysin first spelled the name of the village and the famous musicians as Joujouka. More important, however, is the fact that both Brion Gysin and William S. Burroughs, who learned of this music through his friend Gysin, in their quoted writings and reliable references in books later spelled the village name and the music group as Jajouka, or Master Musicians of Jajouka. Here are some of the references to the preeminent and commonly used spelling in published books (not tiny pamplets as in the case of the Hamri reference mentioned above, which as I have said, was written by a fraudulent individual claiming to be the inheritor of the King of Ireland, which much has been written about exposing this fact. In view of the fact that the author has a long history of criminal activities, and the revelation that he was a complete fraud, as his father was a garbage collector or something like that and not Irish "royalty", I would not put too much faith in his pompous writings. | ||
Let's get to the commonly accepted spelling of the Master Musicians from the village. Please look at Google Books, which has indexed many of the books for reading, a very useful feature. You can start by going to Google Books, then search on Master Musicians of Jajouka, and you will find many sources, and can read much of the contents online. I did this yesterday and forwarded it to the administrator Fayssal, who is trying to help settle this matter to the satisfaction of all parties concerned, not just me and opiumjones_23. While I can understand that he, as producer of only 3 CDs of his largely unknown band of "Joujouka" musicians wants to be acknowledged, the fact of the matter is that he has gone out of his way to discredit the hereditary leader of the very group whose music has been around for over 1,000 years, widely credited as being the first "World Music" group. But his use of Brian Jones and Brion Gysin, and Hamri and William Burroughs, as well as his extra-Misplaced Pages use of the Internet, blogs, and interviews, all with him, give only a one-sided and distorted picture of the history of the music and the group. There is one group, and one leader, and it is the Master Musicians of Jajouka led by Bachir Attar. That is what most reputable sources say. I and user Emerman, who I have been accused of being, who I am not, have never seen in print any documentation showing that his Joujouka is the "original" group. Beat Generation figures are used to attempt to justify his position, but the books and references I have read point to The Master Musicians of Jajouka, and the village is spelled almost consistently, with one or two scholarly exceptions, as Jajouka. The Master Musicians of Jajouka group whose father was the undisputed leader at the time of the Brian Jones recording in 1969 was Bachir's father, not the Ahmed El Attar that opiumjones_23 claims. Where is his documentation for this in some reputable source? One group, one music, one page on Misplaced Pages for this group seems to be the correct way to proceed. It is clearly the Master Musicians of Jajouka. | Let's get to the commonly accepted spelling of the Master Musicians from the village. Please look at Google Books, which has indexed many of the books for reading, a very useful feature. You can start by going to Google Books, then search on Master Musicians of Jajouka, and you will find many sources, and can read much of the contents online. I did this yesterday and forwarded it to the administrator Fayssal, who is trying to help settle this matter to the satisfaction of all parties concerned, not just me and opiumjones_23. While I can understand that he, as producer of only 3 CDs of his largely unknown band of "Joujouka" musicians wants to be acknowledged, the fact of the matter is that he has gone out of his way to discredit the hereditary leader of the very group whose music has been around for over 1,000 years, widely credited as being the first "World Music" group. But his use of Brian Jones and Brion Gysin, and Hamri and William Burroughs, as well as his extra-Misplaced Pages use of the Internet, blogs, and interviews, all with him, give only a one-sided and distorted picture of the history of the music and the group. There is one group, and one leader, and it is the Master Musicians of Jajouka led by Bachir Attar. That is what most reputable sources say. I and user Emerman, who I have been accused of being, who I am not, have never seen in print any documentation showing that his Joujouka is the "original" group. Beat Generation figures are used to attempt to justify his position, but the books and references I have read point to The Master Musicians of Jajouka, and the village is spelled almost consistently, with one or two scholarly exceptions, as Jajouka. The Master Musicians of Jajouka group whose father was the undisputed leader at the time of the Brian Jones recording in 1969 was Bachir's father, not the Ahmed El Attar that opiumjones_23 claims. Where is his documentation for this in some reputable source? One group, one music, one page on Misplaced Pages for this group seems to be the correct way to proceed. It is clearly the Master Musicians of Jajouka. |
Revision as of 19:16, 12 December 2008
Note: This page is dedicated to administer and manage the dispute and conflict concerning a few Moroccan music bands with their undelying relationship with some "Beat generation" figures. This is a Misplaced Pages dispute which has lasted more than a few years. Several attempts of mediation have failed. There are 2 main single-purpose accounts concerned by the dispute; BKLisenbee (talk · contribs) and Opiumjones 23 (talk · contribs). There are a few other relatively involved users who edit from time to time. Please refer to this archived mediation for the whole background and details.This page is meant to be a central place for all volunteer uninvolved editors and admins seeking a resolution to this dispute. It will also serve to organize all work dedicated to reach a compromise. It has been made clear that both users would not reach a compromise if left alone. It is time now to listen for the last time to these users' concerns and deal with them according to Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines.
Archives |
user:Opiumjones 23's concerns
user:BKLisenbee's concerns
There has been continuing misinformation and disinformation on Misplaced Pages regarding confusion over who hereditary leader of The Master Musicians of Jajouka, Bachir Attar, whose father Hadj Abdesalam Attar, who was the undisputed leader of The Master Musicians of Jajouka when Brian Jones of the Rolling Stones once recorded in the village. The music existed long before either Brion Gysin, Hamri, William Burroughs and Brian Jones ever set foot in the village, of course. Unfortunately, the confusion and "controversy" is on Misplaced Pages's associated pages:
(articles) Master Musicians of Jajouka Featuring Bachir Attar; Master Musicians of Joujouka (I now feel there needs to be only one (article) entitled Master Musicians of Jajouka, with some information about the confusion in a new section);
(article) Jajouka (concentrating on the village in Morocco) As it currently stands, there is a misstatement that the village "hosted a Brian Jones 40th Anniversary" celebration, which was (organized not by the villagers but by opiumjones_23. This self-promotion needs to be removed, as it was opiumjones_23 who organized this event, and the links to his radio talk have mainly to do with his event) I had initially put a link to a MSN Encarta map which showed the spelling of the village as Jajouka (not "Joujouka", which was predominantly the way the illiterate painter and a friend of Brion Gysin pronounced the village where his mother was from. This article is about the village, and history, not an announcement page for an opiumjones_23-sponsored festival. The link to the radio interview by him should be removed as well as the announcement of his festival, which was actually the 39th anniversary anyway, not the 40th. Another point on Tangier is that under references and notes, #2, joujouka.net should be removed especially since there is no reference or note to jajouka.com, a far more popular group that has in the past, and still tours throughout North America, Europe, Scandinavia, Europe, Japan and Hong Kong.
(article) Mohamed Hamri (no reputable source other than an art-pamphlet shows that Hamri was born in "Joujouka" or Jajouka, and see below that various books have him as born in Ksar-el-Kebir, as well as opiumjones_23's own obituary in the Independent newspaper. The place of birth of the painter Mohamed Hamri is wrong on Misplaced Pages. opiumjones_23 wrote an obituary saying he was born in Ksar-el-Kebir, Morocco (still a "reputable" source on Misplaced Pages), and Misplaced Pages says Hamri was born in Joujouka. The same obituary says that Hamri was immortalized by Paul Bowles in a book, and it turns out that it was Brion Gysin's book The Process where Hamri was "immortalized" as a character. This same obituary calls a totally illiterate an "intellectual". Now opiumjones_23 has changed his tune to say that a limited-edition art pamphlet "biography" (not a real book) about the artist Mohamed Hamri, written by an Irishman who fooled many people over years, into believing that he would be the next king of Ireland, can be taken as fact, since it claims Hamri was born in Joujouka (sic), Morocco. This same writer extorted millions of dollars/euros/pounds from others and is forbidden to travel to his native country. The former Irish "prince" or "Mor" was not royalty at all; he was a total fake, and proven to be so, yet this man's pamphlet is being used as the sole justification for a Misplaced Pages footnote/reference to claim that Hamri was born in the village where his mother was from. On the other hand, several notable books, have references to Hamri as being born in Ksar-el-Kebir,Morocco; thus I think this definitely needs to be changed to Ksar-el-Kebir. It needs also to be noted that Hamri was never a musician. Since the "obituary" by opiumjones_23 also says Hamri was an "intellectual" I would like it noted on wikipedia that he was illiterate, and footnotes and references can also state facts that in his early life he was well-known in Tangier as a petty thief and smuggler.
(article) Tangier (under people who lived in Tangier, Hamri is described as "the Picasso of Morocco"; only one newspaper article has this, but it seems to be conjecture and wishful thinking. Books have described him as he proclaimed himself on his personal calling/business card which I still have: "Hamri, the Painter of Morocco" The article is one of perhaps hundreds written over the years in newspapers on Tangier, mainly a travel piece, with a bit about Hamri's wife Blanca. She is a long-time resident of the city, but not one of the most important or socially prominent people in the city, having been a secretary for the former headmaster of the American School of Tangier, who died two years ago.
(article) William S. Burroughs; Burroughs supported Bachir Attar and stated in a letter that Attar was the rightful inheritor of the mantle of leader of the Master Musicians, and his group the only true group. Regardless of any other letter to the contary, this seems to have been Burroughs' final say on the matter. (See this signed letter on the jajouka.com site under documents). For the signed letter by William Burroughs, see this page: http://www.jajouka.com/williamsburroughs.html Jajouka manager Cherie Nutting has the original letter and she can be contacted via the jajouka.com site. On this letter http://www.jajouka.com/jajoukaletter2.html on page three, Burroughs assistant describes Hamri as "a complete impostor" and he says that Hamri in opiumjones_23's film Destroy All Rational Thought reveals himself to be a "con man".
(article) Bachir Attar As it currently reads, after much edit-warring, including with other users such Abelekrim, Bachir leads the Master Musicians of Jajouka featuring Bachir Attar. This needs to be corrected throughout Misplaced Pages as he is the the one and only hereditary leader of The Master Musicians of Jajouka, and his father Hadj Abdesalam Attar was the undisputed leader at the time of the Jones recording. There are many book references to this. Bachir lives in the village and many of the musicians still live there, but some live in nearby Ksar-el-Kebir and elsewhere, to earn income since there is no real commercial enterprises in the village other than some farming. Bachir never claimed to lead a "Joujouka" group, and the spelling is a moot point here. He is merely the acknowledged leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and they have toured throughtout the world on many occasions, including 2008 in Canada, and confirmed tours and performances are in the works for 2009. You may add a recent article/interview from Walrus magazine on Bachir Attar and Jajouka, http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/2008/07/09/an-interview-with-bachir-attar/ however, please take note that two links were added to opiumjones_23's Joujouka MySpace site, as well as to his own Joujouka.net via comments. This is the typical modus operandi of opiumjones_23. The article/interview with Bachir Attar about Jajouka are interesting and would be a good link reference, since it is dated December 12, 2008.
(article) Cherie Nutting (comments to be added shortly)
(article) Brion Gysin; (to be added shortly)
(article) The Rolling Stones; (comments to be added shortly)
(article) Brian Jones Presents the Pipes of Pan at Joujouka (to be added)
(article) Brian Jones Presents the Pipes of Pan at Jajouka (to be added)
(article) Paul Bowles. The famous expatriate writer and composer Bowles was dragged into this after his death on the pages of Misplaced Pages, and he is still being slandered by opiumjones23 on his own site for his band Joujouka (see joujouka.net and by people he knows on various blogs (Irish writer Paul Hawkins), and Joe Ambrose (Irish friend of opiumjones_23) who describes himself an "art-terrorist", and who has stated that he does not believe in the laws of libel); it is disgraceful and unethical. Bowles was accused of all kinds of misdeads, and in the past he was characterized as a serial-sexual predator, and this information remains "interviews" by opiumjones_23 and his friends who do his bidding on the Web, blogs, blog comments, etc. Unverified "facts" have been repeated so often that people are now beginning to believe them, and Misplaced Pages's Jajouka / Joujouka / Hamri / Brion Gysin/ Pipes of Pan have a major role in perpetrating confusion, misinformation, disinformation, and even slander and libel on occasion, via links on its pages, so I hope there can be a resolution. Bowles friends have had the location of their Tangier residence inserted, with insinuations about sexuality. Opiumjones_23 claimed that he "knew" Bowles, when in reality he and his friend Ambrose were persona non grata in Bowles apartment and asked to leave by the maid and chauffeur.
Trivia, babel and totally unrelated information and personal names and links to outside sites are still on User opiumjones_23 and User Talk Discussion pages, indexed in Google and perhaps other search engines, so that trivia and noninvolved parties names are turning up the Misplaced Pages user page when searches are being done on their names. This is the kind of thing that makes Misplaced Pages look bad. Yes, there are problems with Misplaced Pages. It is perhaps time for higher ups in Administration to take notice. It is also a fact that many professors at universities and colleges now give automatic failing grades in courses to students who use Misplaced Pages as references in their papers. I understand why, based on this "controversy" largely stirred up by Hamri, opiumjones_23 and his art-terrorist friend who has been involved. Though the latter is not editing on Misplaced Pages, his sites are being used as references also, and he is quoted that he does not believe in the laws of libel. (to be continued).
Numerous discussion/edits by opiumjones23 have been contentious, and long disrupted the lives of innocent people, causing nightmares, and I was once threatened with legal action. Many times in the past few years my edits were reverted by him and others. I began editing on the Jajouka and Master Musicians of Jajouka pages because I saw the group spelled as Joujouka, when I was familiar with the current leader, Bachir Attar, who lives in the village. opiumjones23 has repeatedly tried to say that his musicians represent the "original" group, but he has gone well beyond this to repeatedly discredit Attar, whose father was the hereditary leader of the group. Thus, as I see it, much of this has spread to blogs and only today I found a blog which seems to perpetrate this notion. It could be as a result of Misplaced Pages's having two separate pages, one for Master Musicians of Jajouka (which opiumjones23 felt should be redirected to Master Musicians of Jajouka featuring Bachir Attar). This redirection should be eliminated. The other band of musicians, is what opiumjones23 calls the Master Musicians of Joujouka.
The Jajouka spelling of the village is commonly used in the West, in most publications by far, and reputable sources and references, and many books, as Jajouka, and the name of the group is almost always spelled Jajouka. Invariably, these published books have used knowledgeable sources and interviews, including Brian Gysin, to accurately I feel spell the name of both the far more popular group as Jajouka, and it is led by Bachir Attar. William Burroughs said that there was no dispute that Bachir Attar was the only rightful inheritor of the mantle of Leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and you can read that on the official Jajouka.com site under documents.
I will also say that this Master Musicians of Jajouka/Joujouka dispute seems to have come about beginning in the 1990s when Mohamed Hamri, a Moroccan painter, who was illiterate and a close friend of Brion Gyin who once lived in Tangier. There is confusion as to the commonly accepted spelling of the village as Jajouka caused by consistent references to a Master Musicians of Joujouka on Misplaced Pages. I had long ago put on a simple MSN Encarta link showing the spelling and precise location of the village on the Jajouka page (for the village). Someone removed this, and for clarity's sake, it really should be there, along with other map references to the village, which I have visited only once. A pronounciation of the village by Mohamed Hamri, who was illiterate, has been used as Joujouka. But it is a pronounciation, not turned into a spelling by opiumjones_23, who knew Hamri well, and his wife, and who has put out a mere 3 CDs using Joujouka as a spelling for his band. But the origin of the spelling may have come from Hamri, and from that point in the early 1950s Brion Gysin first spelled the name of the village and the famous musicians as Joujouka. More important, however, is the fact that both Brion Gysin and William S. Burroughs, who learned of this music through his friend Gysin, in their quoted writings and reliable references in books later spelled the village name and the music group as Jajouka, or Master Musicians of Jajouka. Here are some of the references to the preeminent and commonly used spelling in published books (not tiny pamplets as in the case of the Hamri reference mentioned above, which as I have said, was written by a fraudulent individual claiming to be the inheritor of the King of Ireland, which much has been written about exposing this fact. In view of the fact that the author has a long history of criminal activities, and the revelation that he was a complete fraud, as his father was a garbage collector or something like that and not Irish "royalty", I would not put too much faith in his pompous writings.
Let's get to the commonly accepted spelling of the Master Musicians from the village. Please look at Google Books, which has indexed many of the books for reading, a very useful feature. You can start by going to Google Books, then search on Master Musicians of Jajouka, and you will find many sources, and can read much of the contents online. I did this yesterday and forwarded it to the administrator Fayssal, who is trying to help settle this matter to the satisfaction of all parties concerned, not just me and opiumjones_23. While I can understand that he, as producer of only 3 CDs of his largely unknown band of "Joujouka" musicians wants to be acknowledged, the fact of the matter is that he has gone out of his way to discredit the hereditary leader of the very group whose music has been around for over 1,000 years, widely credited as being the first "World Music" group. But his use of Brian Jones and Brion Gysin, and Hamri and William Burroughs, as well as his extra-Misplaced Pages use of the Internet, blogs, and interviews, all with him, give only a one-sided and distorted picture of the history of the music and the group. There is one group, and one leader, and it is the Master Musicians of Jajouka led by Bachir Attar. That is what most reputable sources say. I and user Emerman, who I have been accused of being, who I am not, have never seen in print any documentation showing that his Joujouka is the "original" group. Beat Generation figures are used to attempt to justify his position, but the books and references I have read point to The Master Musicians of Jajouka, and the village is spelled almost consistently, with one or two scholarly exceptions, as Jajouka. The Master Musicians of Jajouka group whose father was the undisputed leader at the time of the Brian Jones recording in 1969 was Bachir's father, not the Ahmed El Attar that opiumjones_23 claims. Where is his documentation for this in some reputable source? One group, one music, one page on Misplaced Pages for this group seems to be the correct way to proceed. It is clearly the Master Musicians of Jajouka.
NOTES FOR FAYSSAL OF WIKIPEDIA FROM USER: BKLISENBEE Google Books provides a wealth of information about the Master Musicians of Jajouka and Bachir Attar, as well as Brion Gysin and Jajouka, William Burroughs and Jajouka, etc. Please look at these books in Google Books; there are many other references to Jajouka in Google Books, too numerous and time-consuming for me to view all today..
Back in No Time By Brion Gysin, Jason Weiss Published by Wesleyan University Press, 2002 ISBN 0819565296, 9780819565297 354 pages
Written in 1981 by Brion Gysin, please note the article by Gysin on page 279, “Hamri’s Hands”, where is described as a cook, as well as a painter, and also note Gysin’s use of the spelling for the group as Master Musicians of Jajouka.
NOTE: There are many instances throughout this book where Brion Gysin himself (he wrote the book) consistently uses the term Master Musicians of Jajouka. This should lay to rest any claim by user opiumjones23 who reinvents history and facts to suit his purposes on Misplaced Pages and makes it Joujouka, always contentiously dragging in Hamri, who was a known thief in his youth, later a painter, and never a musician, who was not born in Jajouka but in Ksar-el-Kebir, for his “controversial” purposes only. Gysin m ay have at times spelled it Joujouka (remember that Mohamed Hamri was illiterate and did not read or write up until his death), and regardless of the original LP release of a single work Brian Presents the Pipes of Pan at Joujouka (later released as Brian Jones Presents the Pipes of Pan at Jajouka (it is also very clear from the many sources below that the Master Musicians of Jajouka is the far more preferred spelling.
I suggest when you look at these sources, you search inside each book for Master Musicians of Jajouka and you will see these instances and the pages they are mentioned within each book using a Google Book search:
Wising Up the Marks: A Modern William Burroughs
By Timothy S. Murphy
Published by University of California Press, 1998
ISBN 0520209516, 9780520209510
276 pages
A Google Book Search within this book actually quotes William Burroughs on page 222, and other instances where Jajouka is used are on pages 224, 225, 258, 264, and 272; Jajouka is consistently used either as Master Musicians of Jajouka or Jajouka, also referring to the Moroccan village, throughout this book. It seems that William Burroughs also wrote liner notes for an LP album, Apocalypse Across the Sky, a Master Musicians of Jajouka album, with Bachir Attar as the leader of the group.
Note also that within this book it has Master Musicians of Jajouka and Ornette Coleman, not a “Joujouka” as opiumjones_23 claims on his revisions of Master Musicians of Joujouka and other pages on Misplaced Pages. This, of course, needs to be clarified. As I pointed out to administrator-mediator Fayssal yesterday, even the official Ornette Coleman website uses only the spelling as Master Musicians of Jajouka.
Global Minstrels: Voices of World Music By Elijah Wald Published by CRC Press, 2006 ISBN 0415979307, 9780415979306 306 pages
Master Musicians of Jajouka and Bachir Attar as the leader are used throughout this book. “Joujouka” is not used once in this book. No mention of Hamri either.
Mass Mediations: New Approaches to Popular Culture in the Middle East and Beyond By Walter Armbrust Published by University of California Press, 2000 ISBN 0520219260, 9780520219267 378 pages
The term/use Master Musicians of Jajouka or word Jajouka referring to the group or village is used in many places throughout this book, which also elaborates a little on Hamri and “Joujouka”, as well as this quote on page 159: “"Zahjoukah" is the closest representation of the old Jbala pronounciation of the name…” Thus, the use of Zahjoukah on Misplaced Pages is actually how it could be pronounced, but not the preferred spelling of the village or group, which is Jajouka. See also page 750, which refers to Hamri as a “reputed smuggler” who was learning to paint. Note also that it was Paul Bowles and Brion Gysin who first heard the music of Jajouka at a festival outside Tangier, Morocco.
World Music: The Rough Guide By Simon Broughton, Mark Ellingham, Richard Trillo, Orla Duane, Vanessa Dowell Published by Rough Guides, 1999 ISBN 1858286352, 9781858286358 736 pages
Information about World Music, including the Master Musicians of Jajouka, Brian Jones, Mick Jagger, recording the Rolling Stones Steel Wheels album with the Master Musicians of Jajouka and leader Bachir Attar. Includes photographs.
Nothing is True - Everything is Permitted: The Life of Brion Gysin By John Geiger (not to be confused with opiumjones_23 film) Published by The Disinformation Company, 2005 ISBN 1932857125, 9781932857122
There are several instances in this book about Paul Bowles, who first heard the music of the Master Musicians of Jajouka in 1950 at a moussem near Tangier. Meticulouly referenced footnotes from acual sources or letters are used throughout this book. Note this des cription of Mohamed Hamri at the bottom of page 91 and top of page 92: “ A young Moroccan, Mohamed Hamri, who had been introduced to Gysin by Paul Bowles, acted as Gysin’s ‘little back door’ into Moslem manners and ways. Hamri was described as Gysin’s ‘blood brother… (an) irrepressible, busy, puckish, volatile, laughing Mediterranean trickster.” (footnote provided. A reputed smuggler who ran contraband from the International Zone into the Spanish and French Protectorates, Hamri ‘spent his entire time trying to get hold of money illicitly,” Bowles observed. He often succeeded. On one occasion he borrowed a suit from Bowles to attend a wedding, indeed a suit Bowles had work to his own wedding, then failed to return it…..” Also, note that Hamri stole an expensive radio from Bowles, etc. This caused a temporary rift in the friendship between Bowles and Gysin, but they later were friendly again for year to come.
This book also says that it was Hamri’s mother who had come from Jajouka, not Hamri himself. There is no reputable source in print which claims that Mohamed Hamri was born in the village. Rather, even in the Indepenedent obituary of Mohamed Hamri, writte n by opiumjones_23 himself , Hamri was born in Ksar-el-Kebir, Morocco. Michelle has this fact in her book Paul Bowles and the Literary Renegades of Tangier also.
Note that in the above book, a search within the book for Master Musicians has on page 103 “In December 1954, he opened a restaurant featuring the Master Musicians of Jajouka. Called the 1001 Nights, it was located in a narrow wing….” note the spelling as Jajouka.
Page 145: “Gysin's fascination with the Master Musicians of Jajouka is echoed by Burroughs' repeated evocation of them, the "Pan God of Panic piping blue notes through...” William Burroughs also became interested in the music of the Master Musicians of Jajouka (not “Joujouka”). There are references to Robert Palmer, Augusta Palmer’s father who visited the village, etc. This is a well-researched book.
The Rock Snob’s Dictionary: An Essential Lexicon of Rockological Knowledge By David Kamp, Steven Daly Published by Broadway Books, 2005 ISBN 0767918738, 9780767918732 149 pages
This book refers to The Master Musicians of Jajouka.
On the Track: A Guide to Contemporary Film Scoring By Fred Karlin, Rayburn Wright Contributor Rayburn Wright Published by Routledge, 2004 ISBN 0415941369, 9780415941365 533 pages
On page 95, there is reference to Howard Shore, conducting the London Philharmonic Orchestra, using The Master Musicians of Jajouka (led by Bachir Attar) for his 2005 film The Cell. It also says: “Ornette Coleman performing with The Master Musicians of Jajouka…” Misplaced Pages user opiumjones23 claims that Ornette Coleman recorded with his “Joujouka8 0, which is absolutely untrue.
Anthropologica Published by Canadian Anthropology Society Date unknown, but it refers to Master Musicians of Jajouka Featuring Bachir Attar on a release of their album Apocalypse Across the Sky, and also has a lesser known spelling Jahjouka, once. Jajouka Rolling Stone: A Fable of Gods and Heroes By Stephen Davis Published by Random House, 1993 Original from the University of California 0A Digitized May 13, 2008 ISBN 067942119X, 9780679421191 297 pages
References The Master Musicians of Jajouka and Bachir Attar, The Rolling Stones performing with Jajouka led by Bachir Attar, and Apocalypse Across the Sky album of the Master Musicians led by Bachir Attar. There are 30 references in this book to the Master Musicians of Jajouka. There are 3 references in this book referring to Jajouka as the spelling of the village, not once is it spelled as Joujouka which is how Misplaced Pages has it.
The Autobiography of Donovan: The Hurdy Gurdy Man By Donovan Leitch, Donovan Published by Macmillan, 2007 ISBN 0312364342, 9780312364342 289 pages
This autobiography of singer Donovan refers to the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and states on page 105: “Linda also told me more about the darker side of Brian Jones. He had been back to Morocco to record ‘The Pipes of Pan”. He had been introduced to the Master Musicians of Jajouka through the bohemian painter Brion Gysin, friend of Paul Bowles and mentor to William Burroughs. Brian learned from Gysin that the musicians of Jajouka continued seven-hundred year-old traditions, the ancient rites of Pan.” No spelling of Joujouka in this book either.
The Rough Guide to Rock: the definitive guide to more than 1200 artists and bands By Peter Buckley Published by Rough Guides, 2003 ISBN 1843531054, 9781843531050 1225 pages
Three pages reference the Master Musicians of Jajouka (Bachir Attar), and various recordings, and no references to user opiumjones23's “Joujouka” offshoot, with only 3 CDs on the SubRosa label in Belgium.
Book of Lies: The Disinformation Guide to Magick and the Occult By Richard Metzger, Grant Morrison Contributor Grant Morrison Published by The Disinformation Company, 2003 ISBN 097139427X, 9780971394278 352 pages
As I wrote Fayssal previously, this book quotes Brion Gysin, to refer to the village as Jajouka and the group as The Master Musicians of Jajouka. Has several photographs of Brion Gysin. The author met with Brion Gysin in Paris and he interviewed him.=2 0The book also says, on page 115: “On one of my first visits to Paris to meet with Gysin I was blessed with a special evening. After looking into the Dream Machine for a couple of hours, Bachir Attar, then the son of the Master Musician of Jajouka—he is now the Master Musician himself after his father’s death —and his brother, cooked me a ceremonial meal. During the feast Bachir played flute music…”
On page 92, “This music captured his imagination and after years of searching he traced the musicians, with the aid of the Moroccan painter Hamri, to Jajouka, ...” (Hamri pronounced the village/group as “Joujouka”, but clearly Brion Gysin spelled it correctly as Jajouka in his later years, and the illiterate painter Hamri is described by opiumjones23 as an “intellectual” in his obituary of Hamri in the English newspaper, The Independent, which in print says that Hamri was born in Ksar-el-Kebir, not in his mother's village, Jajouka. Yes, Hamri was born in Ksar-el-Kebir, but he was clearly not an intellectual and never described that way in any published references and books. Most books who have researched this described him as a petty thief, smuggler, bully, con artist, who became an accomplished artist, but never as a musician. Hamri had no claim to the music of the village, and in fact he stole money from the musicians. I have met him and his wife over the years I have lived in Tangier, and when he was sober, he seemed OK. I do not dispute his talent as a painter, however, he is no "Picasso of Morocco" as is on the Tangier Misplaced Pages page. He called himself, "Hamri, The Painter of Morocco." He was not the "National Painter of Morocco" either.
The Dream at the End of the World: Paul Bowles and the Literary Renegades in Tangier By Michelle Green Published by HarperCollins, 1991 Original from the University of Michigan Digitized Mar 4, 2008 ISBN 0060165715, 9780060165710 381 pages
This book says Mohamed Hamri was born in Ksar-el-Kebir, and it refers to Jajouka and the Master Musicians of Jajouka. She does not use any spelling of the village as Joujouka, nor does she refer to any group with the name the Master Musicians of Joujouka. It seems well-researched and interviewed many people, viewed sources and letters, etc.
Keith Richards: Satisfaction By Christopher Sandford Published by Carroll & Graf Publishers, 2004 ISBN 0786713682, 9780786713684 355 pages On pages 134 and 294, the group and musicians are referred to and spelled as Jajouka. The page 294 mentions the Rolling Stones 1989 recording of their album Steel Wheels album with the Master Musicians of Jajouka (led now and then by Bachir Attar).
I could go on and on, but you get the point, there are no reputable sources other than opiumjones_23’s use of the Internet, unsourced blog comments, adding slanderous comments about me, as he did on a Chelsea Hotel blog, etc., that truly justify any of “Joujouka” and these sources all seem to take the position that Bachir Attar is indeed the hereditary leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka, and that Hamri was not a musician, not born in Jajouka. In the historical context, the Master Musicians of Jajouka, sometimes spelled Zahjouka, or Jahjouka by Moroccans, and usually as Jajouka in English and in the West in general, Hamri was a very minor player in the music except that he exploited the musicians and his only claim to fame with them is that he brought his close friend Brion Gysin, who later brought Rolling Stones' founder/guitarist Brian Jones to the village to make one recording of the Pipes of Pan. The Rolling Stones did indeed grant to Bachir Attar, as the acknowledged leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka, permission to re-release the original Brian Jones recording of Pipes of Pan and the spelling was corrected to what was commonly used. If the artwork was changed from the original, so be it. What is so controversial about changing to a new cover for a new release?
I respectfully request that some administrators and concerned editors correct this information on Misplaced Pages, as soon as possible. This misinformation on Misplaced Pages has been there for months and even years. It must be noted that Brion Gysin spelled the name as Jajouka in his own writings.
There are many other Google Book results for Master Musicians of Jajouka, more often than not referring to Bachir Attar as the current leader. There are also video documentaries which mention this, and future documentaries and films are to be released in 2009 regarding Jajouka (long before opiumjones_23 appeared on the scene with his "Joujouka" incarnation. These and letters from important people involved in the estate of Brion Gysin and William Burroughs, also support the Bachir Attar as leader and spelling of the village and group as Master Musicians of Jajouka. You can see some of these documents on the current Jajouka.com site. The group has now established its own record label, Jajoukarecords and will be releasing a new CD early in January 2009.
I welcome the help and assistance of concerned individuals and Wikipedian administrators to resolve this peacefully. I just don't want to be smeared on the Web, in Misplaced Pages user talk/discussion pages or on any blogs' comments, particularly by opiumjones_23, with false accusations and in the case of the Chelsea Hotel blog, false statements supporting a libelous and accusation by person in Australia, accusing me of being a "serial" harrasser by sending numerous e-mails. This is completely untrue, as was his accusations. Smearing someone's name on the Internet is is not productive. I am a fact seeker, however, I do know well Bachir and Cherie, manager of the group, and I have also met Hamri and his wife, and Bowles, since I have lived part of each of the past 25 years in Morocco. I have only visited the village--Jajouka--once. One other Wiki user attempt to get me fired from one job as a webmaster, and it did not work. The internet can be a dangerous place, and it is unfortunately used to attack people via comments. This is why I am opposed to using real names in general on user talk and discussion pages, including people who are not even directly involved in this particular matter.