| Revision as of 17:09, 12 December 2008 editRoadcreature (talk | contribs)4,347 edits cleanup (2 closed threads)← Previous edit | Revision as of 02:31, 14 December 2008 edit undoCheers dude (talk | contribs)1,079 edits →Misplaced Pages, the Social ExperimentNext edit → | ||
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| ::::::Well, I'm not that person, so take your complaint elsewhere. ] (], ]) 15:52, 12 December 2008 (UTC) | ::::::Well, I'm not that person, so take your complaint elsewhere. ] (], ]) 15:52, 12 December 2008 (UTC) | ||
| == ANI board comments == | |||
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| |style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Helping Hand Barnstar''' | |||
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| |style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | message ] (]) 02:31, 14 December 2008 (UTC) | |||
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| Thank you once again Guido for stepping into the heated debate on the ANI noticeboards surrounding the edit conflict. I really appreciated that. Here's a barnstar for your efforts. ;) ] (]) 02:31, 14 December 2008 (UTC) | |||
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Revision as of 02:31, 14 December 2008
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| Prof. Anton Komaroff (2007): "None of the participants in creating the 1988 CFS case definition and name ever expressed any concern that it might TRIVIALISE the illness. We were insensitive to that possibility and WE WERE WRONG." |
| Prof. Malcolm Hooper (2007): "The simplest test for M.E. is just to say to the patient ‘stand over there for ten minutes’." |
but may still come visit when you least expect it
Note: since there is apparently a free pass for other users to modify my talk page contributions, I am sadly no longer able to respond on talk pages other than my own.Dutch ME/CFS patient survey
The results of the ME/CFS patient survey conducted by NIVEL in co-operation with the patient organizations have arrived and are expected to become public around December 15, 2008. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 19:27, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
- Press release due on December 17. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 13:51, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages, the Social Experiment
Would you be so kind as to forward me either a copy of, or details of how I can obtain a copy of, your full report to the United Nations. Many thanks, Verbal chat 13:29, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- That was fast.
- The full report is not publicly available, so I can't help you there. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 13:37, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Could you give any details on the report? Is it some kind of voluntary filing, or was it requested or commissioned? Is it in any way official? Why is the report private, and will it or a version ever be released? Verbal chat 14:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- A follow-up report by the UN may. They constantly collect volunteer reports, letters, etc., it's how the UN operate. This one may end up at the bottom of the drawer, or it could help prepare a resolution, or anything in between. There is no way of telling, although a pilot project for the next phase has already started. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 22:37, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- But was the report commissioned or solicited by the UN, or simply submitted to them after compilation? I'm also interested in what their interest may be, or what you feel it may be. Thanks again, Verbal chat 22:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- As I've indicated, it is part of a long-term project. This was only the second phase. Neither the first phase, nor the next, has anything to do with Misplaced Pages. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 15:51, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- But was the report commissioned or solicited by the UN, or simply submitted to them after compilation? I'm also interested in what their interest may be, or what you feel it may be. Thanks again, Verbal chat 22:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- A follow-up report by the UN may. They constantly collect volunteer reports, letters, etc., it's how the UN operate. This one may end up at the bottom of the drawer, or it could help prepare a resolution, or anything in between. There is no way of telling, although a pilot project for the next phase has already started. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 22:37, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Could you give any details on the report? Is it some kind of voluntary filing, or was it requested or commissioned? Is it in any way official? Why is the report private, and will it or a version ever be released? Verbal chat 14:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- As someone who has tried to understand and help others understand what living with a disabling disease is like I am very upset with your experiment. The new edits that you are making to the article, is this too part of your experiment? Is the purpose for you being here is to find out how editors are going to react to your tenacious? I am asking honest questions and hope to get honest answers please. I am trying real hard to assume good faith but your recent edits on your user/talk and the article is leaving me questioning your motives here which I don't like to do. Please clarify what it is you are trying to achieve here, for the project not you scientific experiment. I will add that I do not like being a guinney pig to this kind of thing and I doubt anyone else does either. Please, let us all know what your intentions are now that you are editing again. Thanks in advance for understanding my concerns about all of this, --CrohnieGal 16:17, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- You fail to grasp the situation. It is not my experiment, I was merely a messenger. Regarding my edits of today: they were not the same as before at all, and if you have a problem with any of them, you are welcome to say so and discuss it with me. The CFS articles are full of false attributions and similar issues; I can easily make a thousand edits without repeating myself. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 16:39, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- As I understand it, Guido would be here regardless of the experiment. Years ago I used to sometimes "experiment" in unregulated chatrooms to better understand peoples' beliefs and how these influenced their behaviour, but to a large extent I was there anyway and generally sincere. Similarly, I don't think Guido is insincere or using people as lab rats, but doing what he would do anyway, just in a style to observe specific responses. Right Guido? Misplaced Pages can be too beurocractic and political for the ME/CFS related articles, leading to hypocritical citing of WP policy/guidelines, a decline in some aspects of article quality, and some editors giving up because they've had enough of wasted efforts. - Tekaphor (TALK) 01:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Any one can write a letter to the United Nations or the Prime Minister of Russia or your mom, alls you need is a stamp and you can send it. Thing is, most people do not post it on Misplaced Pages like it is a publication, but I am sure Guido is very sincere and believes it is a important publication and he is doing very important work, i do not doubt it. RetroS1mone talk 02:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Tekaphor, you're correct on all counts. If I didn't care about Misplaced Pages, I wouldn't have posted the summary. Please remember that it's not my experiment, I merely checked on its progress. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 15:57, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Any one can write a letter to the United Nations or the Prime Minister of Russia or your mom, alls you need is a stamp and you can send it. Thing is, most people do not post it on Misplaced Pages like it is a publication, but I am sure Guido is very sincere and believes it is a important publication and he is doing very important work, i do not doubt it. RetroS1mone talk 02:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- As I understand it, Guido would be here regardless of the experiment. Years ago I used to sometimes "experiment" in unregulated chatrooms to better understand peoples' beliefs and how these influenced their behaviour, but to a large extent I was there anyway and generally sincere. Similarly, I don't think Guido is insincere or using people as lab rats, but doing what he would do anyway, just in a style to observe specific responses. Right Guido? Misplaced Pages can be too beurocractic and political for the ME/CFS related articles, leading to hypocritical citing of WP policy/guidelines, a decline in some aspects of article quality, and some editors giving up because they've had enough of wasted efforts. - Tekaphor (TALK) 01:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- You fail to grasp the situation. It is not my experiment, I was merely a messenger. Regarding my edits of today: they were not the same as before at all, and if you have a problem with any of them, you are welcome to say so and discuss it with me. The CFS articles are full of false attributions and similar issues; I can easily make a thousand edits without repeating myself. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 16:39, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- As someone who has tried to understand and help others understand what living with a disabling disease is like I am very upset with your experiment. The new edits that you are making to the article, is this too part of your experiment? Is the purpose for you being here is to find out how editors are going to react to your tenacious? I am asking honest questions and hope to get honest answers please. I am trying real hard to assume good faith but your recent edits on your user/talk and the article is leaving me questioning your motives here which I don't like to do. Please clarify what it is you are trying to achieve here, for the project not you scientific experiment. I will add that I do not like being a guinney pig to this kind of thing and I doubt anyone else does either. Please, let us all know what your intentions are now that you are editing again. Thanks in advance for understanding my concerns about all of this, --CrohnieGal 16:17, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Interesting name for the experiment (which I've strongly criticised elsewhere): "Den Broeder G (2008), "Misplaced Pages, the Social Experiment", report to the United Nations, DOSADI 2(6) Dec". Was this experiment named after The Dosadi Experiment, the science fiction book by Frank Herbert? Carcharoth (talk) 03:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Hi Carcharoth, yes, I believe that is correct. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 12:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a place to conduct social experiments. Using wikipedia for any other purpose can, and in this case, was disruptive and continuing to edit in this manner (and post about this report) is in violation of WP:POINT and should cease immediately. WLU (talk) Misplaced Pages's rules:/complex 15:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- You don't seem to comprehend the magnitude. You are as much a part of the experiment as I am. We all are. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 15:41, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- No, I am solely trying to build an encyclopedia that is reliable and reports according to the relevant experts. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia and those who edit according to any other principle should cease. I don't give a crap about magnitude or anything else, I resent that my hard work may be substantially worsened in the name of experimental data. I don't mind edits to improve pages that alter or even delet my contributions if it improves the project overall; if it's just to see how far you can push a system until it breaks, that person is not here to fulfil the purpose of the project and should be blocked. Period. WLU (talk) Misplaced Pages's rules:/complex 15:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Well, I'm not that person, so take your complaint elsewhere. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 15:52, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- No, I am solely trying to build an encyclopedia that is reliable and reports according to the relevant experts. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia and those who edit according to any other principle should cease. I don't give a crap about magnitude or anything else, I resent that my hard work may be substantially worsened in the name of experimental data. I don't mind edits to improve pages that alter or even delet my contributions if it improves the project overall; if it's just to see how far you can push a system until it breaks, that person is not here to fulfil the purpose of the project and should be blocked. Period. WLU (talk) Misplaced Pages's rules:/complex 15:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- You don't seem to comprehend the magnitude. You are as much a part of the experiment as I am. We all are. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 15:41, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a place to conduct social experiments. Using wikipedia for any other purpose can, and in this case, was disruptive and continuing to edit in this manner (and post about this report) is in violation of WP:POINT and should cease immediately. WLU (talk) Misplaced Pages's rules:/complex 15:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Hi Carcharoth, yes, I believe that is correct. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 12:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
ANI board comments
|
The Helping Hand Barnstar | |
| message Cheers dude (talk) 02:31, 14 December 2008 (UTC) |
Thank you once again Guido for stepping into the heated debate on the ANI noticeboards surrounding the edit conflict. I really appreciated that. Here's a barnstar for your efforts. ;) Cheers dude (talk) 02:31, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
| Martin Luther King: "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." |