Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 01:03, 16 January 2009

In order to remain listed at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/User conduct, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed. This must involve the same dispute with a single user, not different disputes or multiple users. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~~~~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: 00:03, 16 January 2009 (UTC)), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is: 17:57, 29 December 2024 (UTC).

• Giano II (talk · contribs · logs)

Users should only edit one summary or view, other than to endorse.

Statement of the dispute

This is a summary written by users who are concerned by this user's conduct. Users signing other sections ("Response" or "Outside views") should not edit the "Statement of the dispute" section.

Desired outcome

Ideally, I would like to see Giano recognize the unproductiveness of his approach to discussions and resolve to change. Barring that, some community consensus on how to ensure that his incivility and personal attacks are moderated.

Description

Giano is a user with a lengthy and documentable history of egregious personal attacks and incivility. I have included diffs below. However, dozens of similar diffs exist exist. This behavior violates WP:NPA, a nearly seven-year old policy that exists because of the toxic effects personal attacks have on discussions. Giano's tendency towards them repeatedly reduces serious discussions of policy to dramatic flame wars, and prevents development and progress of Misplaced Pages's policies and processes, and by extension of the project as a whole. To quote NPA, "Personal attacks will not help you make a point; they hurt the Misplaced Pages community and deter users from helping to create a good encyclopedia." And further, "Users who insist on a confrontational style marked by personal attacks are likely to become involved in the dispute resolution process, and may face serious consequences through arbitration, such as being subjected to a community ban." This phrase - "users who insist on a confrontational style marked by personal attacks" - describes Giano's behavior to a tee.

Evidence of disputed behavior

(Provide diffs. Links to entire articles aren't helpful unless the editor created the entire article. Edit histories also aren't helpful as they change as new edits are performed.)

1. The following diffs show unambiguous personal attacks against multiple users: .

Applicable policies and guidelines

{list the policies and guidelines that apply to the disputed conduct}

1. WP:NPA
2. WP:CIVIL

Evidence of trying to resolve the dispute

(provide diffs and links)

1. The issue has come up in multiple requests for arbitration. Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Geogre-William M. Connolley and Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/IRC are the two most recent.

Evidence of failing to resolve the dispute

(provide diffs and links to demonstrate that the disputed behavior continued after trying to resolve the dispute)

1. Diffs above such as post-date both arbcom cases, showing that the behavior has not ceased.

Users certifying the basis for this dispute

{Users who tried and failed to resolve the dispute}

1. I was one of the active commenters and parties in the IRC arbitration case, and in the course of doing so attempted to find some resolution on the matter of Giano's incivility and personal attacks. Phil Sandifer (talk) 00:13, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
2. I have engaged in extensive communication with Giano II, both on- and off-wiki, over a period of I think two years (and been much abused for my pains). I doubt whether anything useful will come of this, but I'm willing to be proved wrong. Mackensen (talk) 00:27, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
3. Yes, there is a dispute here. Durova 00:57, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Other users who endorse this summary

Response

This is a summary written by the user whose conduct is disputed, or by other users who think that the dispute is unjustified and that the above summary is biased or incomplete. Users signing other sections ("Statement of the dispute" and "Outside Views") should not edit the "Response" section.

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Users who endorse this summary:

Outside view

This is a summary written by users not directly involved with the dispute but who would like to add an outside view of the dispute. Users editing other sections ("Statement of the dispute" and "Response") should not edit the "Outside Views" section, except to endorse an outside view.

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Outside view by Privatemusings

why oh why oh why oh why? This is a bad idea. Privatemusings (talk) 00:19, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Users who endorse this summary:

1. Privatemusings (talk) 00:19, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
2. I wish I disagreed. I think deferral to RFC was a poor choice on the part of the arbcom, or I'd have made this my first venue. But with four arbitrators swiftly saying to take it to RFC, I figured I ought oblige. Still, I'll note my dislike of this. Phil Sandifer (talk) 00:23, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
3. KillerChihuahua 00:47, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Outside view by Casliber

We felt this might be better for a more "round table" discussion and community-based. The adversarial approach will be bloody, and how long before lines are drawn on both sides (yet again). The RfC as it stands does not recognise (a) Giano's article work or (b) some of the material slung every which way (especially on days like yesterday), and (c) the context/provocation. This is an unusual situation and much more suited to round-table talks rather than more head-butting. Let's all try and get on the same side here. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:42, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Users who endorse this summary:

1. Admirable sentiment, but I'm not sure what Giano's article work has to do with it. If we want comment on Giano's article work, we head over to the Featured Article pages where it's all on display. We're here to talk about how he treats fellow editors, idiots or no. Mackensen (talk) 00:45, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Outside view by Sam Blacketer

I would like Giano to acknowledge that WP:CIVIL does include him, and that incivility makes it difficult for the community to work together. Sam Blacketer (talk) 00:54, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Users who endorse this summary:

1. I would be very happy with such an outcome. Phil Sandifer (talk) 00:54, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Outside vew by Cla68

The spirit, but not necessarily the letter, of the incivility policy is, in my opinion, to facilitate a collaborative effort to build an encyclopedia. As I see it, the major part of building an encyclopedia takes place in article space, not admin or userpage space. As far as I know, Giano has never (or at least rarely) crossed the line in article space. He takes writing articles seriously and works well with others, even when he disagrees with another editor's viewpoint.

Where Giano technically crosses the incivility line is in dealing with admins or other editors who are actively involved in project administration. Does this excuse his behavior? I think it mitigates it to some extent. If Giano was insulting or bullying newer editors because they make edits he doesn't like to one of "his" articles, like some other editors do, I would be one of the first urging his banishment. As far as I know, he doesn't do this. Thus, in my opinion, he isn't getting much, if at all, in the way of building an encyclopedia, which is supposed to be our mission here.

Users who endorse this summary:

1. Cla68 (talk) 01:02, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Reminder to use the talk page for discussion

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