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This is Rich Dengrove, the fellow who contributed to the article on Mephistopheles. You doubted that Michael Psellos had talked about an order of demons called the Misophaes, or Light Haters. You said you wanted either the passage itself or a citation. Being lazy and not being able to read Greek, I will give you the citation of my source, Jeffrey Russell. J.P.Migne, ed., Patrologia Graeca, "On the Work of the Demons," 122.819-876. Also, The "Life of Saint Auxentius," ed. Perikles-Petros Joannou,Démonologie populaire, démonologie critique au XIe siécle: La vie inédite de S. Auxence, par M. Psellos (Wiesbaden, 1971). I would have written the title of the first article in Greek but I am not certain which of the letters below are equivalent. If need be,I will make this citation into a PDF file and send it to you.

Yours,

Rich Dengrove User:RDengrove

)

Nansen

It's entertainingly embarrassing if I hit on something actually wrong. I sent Bish a message. Haukur (talk) 18:12, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

1801 Presidential Election

I have removed the following material that you added to the Electoral College (United States) article:

In 1801, the House acted under the unamended Constitution, which permitted votes for the first five candidates in the Electoral College, but the only votes cast there were for Jefferson or Burr.

The pre-Twelfth Amendment Electoral College (Article II, Section 1, Clause 3) said that if two people received the vote of a majority of the electors (not a majority of the electoral votes), then the House selected one of those two people to be the President (with the other becoming Vice President). The "five highest" provision referred to an election in which nobody received a vote from a majority of the electors. SMP0328. (talk) 00:35, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Almost a pleasure

A rare (in my experience) case: a peaceful and friendly debate about a naming of a unique Polish-German historical entity: at the bottom of Talk:Episcopal Duchy of Warmia. Friendly input appreciated, stress level low :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 01:04, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Arms and legs

Spotted Sleipnir in your edit summary. That was an interesting article, thanks for that! Carcharoth (talk) 08:09, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Signpost updated for September 15, 2008.

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You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot (talk) 05:09, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Electoral College (United States) and the VP's tiebreaking vote

I finally found a reliable source (USA Today from 2000) that states that there is legal controversy on this issue, after much discussion.Robert A.West (Talk) 05:22, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Manual of Style (Macedonia)

I asked what I thought was a fair question, but it seems to have been universally ignored. Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style (Macedonia-related articles)#Why not just disambiguate as necessary? You asked: "And is anybody going to answer JD2718's question, or shall I?" I think we have the answer. Could you reply? Jd2718 (talk) 16:41, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Macedonian diaspora

So, I'm a Macedonian living in the UK. Can you please tell me what this article has to do with me?--   Avg    00:08, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

glossary

Elaborate rules? You should see WP:LAYOUT. It's always going to be a compromise between the need for standardisation and the need to give lattitude to individuals. You and I just aim for different points on that continuum (most, not all of the time).

I'm afraid my brain turns to jelly when faced with the text in Stanton's proposal, so I've reached the limit of my ability to comment, at least until it's explained better.

The other matter: Skyring's driving us crazy in his barely concealed campaign against US date formatting; while my personal preference would be for international (and metrics, indeed) throughout, that's quite different from my political/administrative stance, which accounts for more than my inner prefs. The distinction exists in all of us, I suppose. And while removing DA causes ructions only among a tiny minority, mass conversions of US to international data formatting per Skyring's empirical designs would cause major disruption. In any case, the utter triviality of the difference between the two formats persuades me that, like the trivial transatlantic spelling differences, both are just fine on WP. You have my full support in resisting his push, as I've already made apparent on the talk pages. Tony (talk) 04:59, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

So you think Stanton's page worth something, if you've copy-edited it? Should I do the same? Tony (talk) 08:36, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

PS and are you going to remove "present-day" from your recent edit of MOSNUM? I foresee trouble with US military writers otherwise. Tony (talk) 14:42, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

"Modern" would be less restrictive, don't you think? "Present-day" seems to imply right now; WWI battleships aren't present-day, but the editors seemed to want international for them. And it does say "in accordance with usage", which covers your militant international datist who wants to convert an article on the Civil War (although hard to imagine it would happen). Tony (talk) 15:28, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Spelling change

I know that some spelling changes can be WP:LAME, but in some circumstances it is worthwhile evaluating a proposal on its specific merits. No-one is trying to say that one version of English is inferior to another version in general, the name change isn't being done out of nationalistic pride (with honor/honour killing who'd want to do that?), and the discussion has been surprisingly civil for such an emotive subject. Thanks, Andjam (talk) 09:26, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

"Hard and geeky and most editors don't do it"

We should indeed be grateful for this pithy quote. It expresses well something I've been trying to get at for a long time with much more verbiage and much less eloquence. Haukur (talk) 10:25, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Date Links

Is it worth proposing a poll on date links? How does one go about organizing one?Dejvid (talk) 08:37, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

1800s

Sept, do you still have an objection to changing the 1800s, 1700s etc pages to disambig pages per my suggestion at Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (numbers and dates)? I believe the two policy pages I mentioned support my position. If you're on board, I think the next step is to outline the debate at WP:VPP to see if there's anything more to add, before changing the pages. (Feel free to reply here. Or not.) - Dan Dank55 (send/receive) 17:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

The never-ending Kiev issue

Hi PMAnderson, hope you're doing well. Thank you for attempting to respond to Vvolodymyr. Earlier today I have twice tried to do it myself, but ended up getting away from the computer slightly depressed and somewhat infuriated... for I also find those ideas "immoral and offensive". *sigh* Humanity seems to be so far away from even understanding what freedom is... (the situation in my dear Argentina is equally depressing, as we seem to be moving backwards towards worshipping the authorities).

Later today, after having a few drinks, I'll try to complement your comments with some boring policy descriptions, just in case. There's still some faint hope. — Dear God, what a constant waste of time. - Best regards, Ev (talk) 19:12, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Why is it immoral and offensive to tell you what my name is? Guess what my name in English is Volodymyr - because I decided so - and nobody has a right to deny me that right. And a million people online can refer to me as "the repulsive idiot" but I will have an upper hand - because it's MY name, MY freedom.

I feel that heavy shackles are being put on Ukrainian government when someone so blatantly disallows it to tell the world on what it's capital should be called.

This is very very very sad. Vvolodymyr (talk) 19:53, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Philitas of Cos

Thanks for your comments about Philitas of Cos. I fixed some of the problems and have questions about the rest; please see the reply at the end of Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Philitas of Cos. Eubulides (talk) 20:33, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your further comments; I followed up there again. Eubulides (talk) 20:14, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the further comments, in particular the mention of Pauly-Wissowa; I followed up at Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Philitas of Cos again. Eubulides (talk) 07:31, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I read Pauly some more, read your and other editors' comments, updated Philitas of Cos accordingly, and responded to everybody's comments at Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Philitas of Cos. Thanks again. Further comments welcome. Eubulides (talk) 22:37, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Alexander Hamilton

Don't remove {{Fact}} tags without citing the reference. I'm putting the tag for it saying "most hisotrians" that is also weasel wording Ctjf83Talk 20:09, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

STOP removing the fact tag, till you put a reference, as stated at Misplaced Pages:Verifiability Ctjf83Talk 20:17, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

"the only recent historian whom I know of to support 1757", unless you are some Hamilton historian, you not knowing of other historians isn't good enough. The weasel words need to be fixed too. Ctjf83Talk 20:23, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

It isn't good enough for me, just remove that part of the sentence that says most historians agree. have you not looked at the Weasel words page??? Ctjf83Talk 20:29, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

A note

Per this, I wanted to note this. Ottava Rima (talk) 18:32, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

"...Sad; almost as sad as Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Battle of Red Cliffs."

• What was sad about ?Ling.Nut 05:24, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

replied on my talk. thanks. Ling.Nut 05:45, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Johnson

I have a problem with your recent change because it uses Bate when not giving a straight out quote. Also, it gives a large swathe of page numbers that are already covered by later footnotes, which makes it inaccurate. I tried to direct you to Samuel Johnson's early life for putting in a longer version of the story if needed. The comma was once an and, but got changed sometime in the over 2,000 edits since this was all put together. This section was cut by Awadewit's request for more information that wasn't biographical, so I hope you respect that. We are at the word limit for pages, and this has to be condescend. If you want to work on the other page, feel free. However, please respect the fact that there were over a dozen people working with the sources and contacting me about individual points, many who studied Johnson during their professional lives. Ottava Rima (talk) 15:45, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Here Ottava Rima (talk) 17:09, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Is that your primary concern? My concern was that you moved it into the health section. Why not keep it in the biography? It could go right after a sentence in which he was fired from a school. I put in a sample here. Can we agree upon this? I strongly feel that this point is a biographical point and essential to the biography section. Ottava Rima (talk) 03:07, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I think you are a bit confused about the health section. It just deals with posthumous diagnosis of his health, the stuff about it affecting his life are integrated into the body of the biography. His scrofula, gout, seizures, etc, are all integrated into the biography. Ottava Rima (talk) 03:39, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest you reread the talk page and FAC. This was already discussed by a large group of editors, and the section was significantly rewritten to the agreement. The consensus will probably not change, as there were many people involved in it and came to a mutual agreement. The term "health" was the easiest way to title the section and was agreed upon by all present. Now, do you have any actionable concerns according to FAC guidelines that weren't already agreed by the large consensus to be in the state that they are now? Ottava Rima (talk) 03:48, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

The only other opposes have changed to support the article. Is there anything left to your oppose that needs to be an oppose, or can the rest be covered quickly or brought to the talk page to determine the consensus view over it? Ottava Rima (talk) 03:20, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Davemon and Shoemaker's Holiday. Also, I scanned copies of those pages, and others disagree with your interpretation of them. Ottava Rima (talk) 03:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

If you read, you would see that both of their comments have been dealt with, and neither felt like their comments were worth opposing, so you cannot use them to justify your own oppose. This is the Summary of the FAC. Please don't misrepresent their language, especially when they make it explicit that they are not opposing. Ottava Rima (talk) 03:47, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Pmanderson, if you are going to disrespect me on my talk page, just know that there are many admin who watch my talk page, and such language is completely inappropriate. Furthermore, if they did not feel that their comments were worth an oppose, you have no right to second guess them. Your claims about plagarism before and other citation problems have been put to review by many admin and copies of the works have been provided and everyone I have talked to agrees that what you saw is not the actual case. Since such things are completely inappropriate for Misplaced Pages, I severely recommend you stop trying to insinuate such a thing again. Not only does it violate things like Assume Good Faith, it also is a breach of Civility and lacks any kind of Verifiability, and these can easily result in a block. So, if you have no merit on your on or strong evidence, please make it clear, or provide evidence. There are only two options for you right now. Ottava Rima (talk) 03:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I saw you mentioned me. I don't think "endemic bad writing" is a far point. I had a bad cold, and didn't feel up to doing a proper copyedit, but, after all the changes that happened during the reworking, there were a few points that could use a final polish before it hit FA. Applying that final polish was my sole intent. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 13:54, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Email

I sent you an email. Ottava Rima (talk) 01:47, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXI (September 2008)

The September 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:23, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Edit warring

Stop edit warring, such as at Francis, Dauphin of France. You have avoided violating the letter of 3RR, but there is also a prohibition against the slow edit war you are currently engaged. Consensus is against you. You can continue to seek new consensus on the Talk page only; stop editing the mainspace page against consensus. -- JHunterJ (talk) 02:44, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

RM Thomas Arundel

Hallo, I'm considering making the move discussed at Talk:Thomas_Arundel_(archbishop)#Requested_move - would you agree that the proposal plus three "supports" gives a consensus in favour of the move despite your "weak oppose"? PamD (talk) 06:51, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

FACR

Pmanderson, you posted at one or more of the recent discussions of short FAs. There's now a proposal to change the featured article criteria that attempts to address this. Please take a look and consider adding your comments to the straw poll there. Mike Christie (talk) 19:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Sicilian Carretto

I thought you may be interested in a cart imported to the US in 1948 by my grandfather with the story of Orlando furioso handcarved in Sicily. It is very large and had been used in the parades in the North End of Boston in the 1950s. If you are interested in seeing it, gail.schlicke@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.237.62.113 (talk) 11:53, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Please stop with the personal attacks

This is a formal request on your talk page asking you to stop attacking me personally, and to please address the content of my posts. Comments such as "No one except Serge, in his various incarnations, supports ..." 1 are personal attacks (not to mention false). You've made numerous similar comments today, thus constituting recurring attacks. I hope we can resolve this without bringing in administrators. Please address only the content of my posts from now on. By the way, I'm far from the only one who supports moving all American cities for which ] already redirects to the article about the city at ]. And please do no conflate a legitimate user name change with inappropriate behavior. Remember, WP:AGF. Thanks. --Serge (talk) 01:18, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Early Earls of Devon

Hi, would you like to join a discussion at User talk:WereSpielChequers#Falkes de Breauté about an anomaly between William de Redvers, 5th Earl of Devon, an article you edit a couple of years ago and Falkes de Breauté? We'd like to pick your brains on this. ϢereSpielChequers 22:15, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Lafayette POV tags

Hi, why did you tag the Lafayette article as POV? You didn't leave a note on the talk page, that I could tell. What are your issues with the article? I'd like to discuss. Regards, Lazulilasher (talk) 15:14, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. You know, I am a hobbyist; not an expert (I work in marketing, by trade). I came to the article as part of a collaborative effort. I got some books, read, etc. It is true that everything I know about Lafayette, I learned while writing the article. As there didn't seem to be a resident expert on the subject, I decided to learn what I could and write the article.

My question: why did you leave a note on my talk page about dates/spelling a few months back? I mean, there was a group of editors actively improving the article, adding sources, doing research, etc. Why didn't you advise my sources were lacking? Since WP lacks experts in these subjects, why did you not lend a hand; instead of adding some largely irrelevant comment about the dates/spelling? I wrote the article in good faith, not knowing my sources were poor. Again, I am not a scholar; just an enthusiasist. Now it is tagged POV, and has a large oppose at FAC.

I must say, I am demoralised that you decided to continue your work on a largely irrelevant area (date formats/spelling), while ignoring a place where you could contribute your talents. I am not an expert, but I did learn a lot with this article. And, I think it much improved from when I found it in early August. So, whatever...withdraw the article, I don't care. Just, next time: please help guide the improvement drive, or at least comment during the GA review, Peer review or A-class review. And, please, let the damn MOS go...you could do much better work elsewhere (for instance: working with me while I wrote this article for 2 months). Kind regards, Lazulilasher (talk) 17:15, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

And apologies if the above was rude. I was disappointed; I'd thought the article in better shape than, I guess, it is. I do wish there was a way in which you could have contributed to the article before FAC -- or a way for you to be more involved in these articles, in the first place. It's frustrating. Your editor summary to my talk said "pan", which implied a certain satisfaction. Yes, you have "panned" my work--good job. But really: why did you not contribute when you noticed work was taking place? It's annoying that one searches Misplaced Pages to find someone with whom to work on an article of importance; and, finds nothing until FAC when the experts appear out of nowhere to blast the whole thing. Lazulilasher (talk) 19:39, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I think I got a little bent out of shape. My goal, really, is to improve coverage of certain areas. And, the French Revolution is one of these areas. This is not because I am an expert on the French Revolution, but because I have an interest and the articles really should be as good as the possibly can be. Regarding your comments, well, the article is based on all of the biographies I was able to find on Lafayette. Biased? I think someone once said that it's hard to write a biography and not be biased. Anyway, I'll work more ont it; sorry for the lash out. As far as obvious and "embarassing errors"--why don't you just correct those?

Spelling/dates: I don't have any opinion. I think we should start worrying about date formatting after we get the content right. Otherwise, IMO, it's a waste of time. Lazulilasher (talk) 00:16, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Eugepae

Done. See User:Pmanderson/Eugepae - can put a U1 on it when you're finished with it. Orderinchaos 20:18, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Dog

Please read Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (precision) policy, before taking part in move request disscussions. Thanks in advance. Mieciu K (talk) 20:50, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

And according to my humble opinion the move is necessary. I find your "Please, stop" comment rude. Since when can't I start discussions on page moves? Should I first start a discussion about starting a discussion about moving a page? Mieciu K (talk) 20:59, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I was planning one, and than I started the other. In both cases I have contacted the appropriete Wikiprojects , I think 159,380 active Wikipedians can handle my 2 request move debates at the same time. Mieciu K (talk) 21:08, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

your edit at MOSNUM

Removing the D-word might be contentious. What do you see as the change in emphasis/meaning in your edit? Tony (talk) 05:46, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Ladder of Jacob

Thank you for your copyedit of Ladder of Jacob. I appreciate it: it was needed. You added a 'clean-up' tag. Where I can improve the Article (References, Article titles and sections, Capital letters, Italics, Quotations, Punctuation, Chronological items, etc )? A ntv (talk) 07:28, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

No-One likes a know-it-all

That distracts people from the issue and is insulting. There was nothing ambiguous in what I said. I think that kind of comment is what kills the collaborative spirit of Misplaced Pages. I challenge you to work harder at making people feel welcome here.--Zaurus (talk) 07:23, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

FSC

Dear PMA, to me, there are two issues: one is straight wording, the other is the number of support declarations that are required in addition to overall consensus. The straight wording option doesn't fuzz up the distinction betwee a nominator as a reviewer, and the occasional withdrawal by a nominator doesn't equate with a reviewer's "oppose", IMO. Tony (talk) 03:09, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Joe Pass edit

Thank you for undoing the edit on the Joe Pass Article. I am trying to encourage editors to at least link the years of Birth & Death for a person so the reader can get some additional context on that person's life. I was going to go back and undo it myself, but I wasn't sure what an edit war with a bot would be like :-). Also, you have an very well thought-out and attractive User Page.

Be healthy,

Michael David (talk) 03:01, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Stopping the bot

If you have a reason for stopping the bot, please say so on my talk page. Lightmouse (talk) 18:01, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXII (October 2008)

The October 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:46, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Proposed naming convention for mills

I'm not sure I understand your question. I need to fully understand what you mean before I can answer. Mjroots (talk) 17:14, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Ortisei

Hey, can you give some suggestions for a name search that would satisfy you. I am really quite sure this town is referred to as Ortisei in English. For all intents and purposes Ortisei and Urtijëi are obviously the same word; and are the way the local population call the city. It makes sense that Urtijëi is rarely used commercially, because look how in English it is difficult to even figure out what the sound is. :-) St. Ulrich is not used, even by most of the local Ladin-speaking people. Anyway... Icsunonove (talk) 03:02, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

No worries, you can be a pain in the arse, but I know you are impartial. :-) I'm pretty convinced myself what is proper English usage with regard to this town, but I agree I should prove my point. Anyway, I'll look into your 'methods'. Anyway, on the other hand, I see no proof that Urtijëi is really used commonly in the English language. That said, I don't know why every topic brought up on BZ has to bring up terms like English Imperialism, fascism, etc., etc. ad naseum. :-) I think the BZ and TN pages on Misplaced Pages have some of the most benefit in capturing all the various histories and namings for these places. Icsunonove (talk) 03:42, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

LOL, it doesn't matter to me really which name is used, just that it is correct English usage. Note also that the core language of my ancestors is Ladin (Rheatian-Romance), so I certainly have no problem with Urtijëi. Ladin languages are my favourite in the end; but I see no reason to be ridiculous about demanding they be used in English. I disagree that I caused trouble though, and do take issue of being lumped into the same boat as Gryffindor. People like him actually caused this trouble by being completely radicalized, and naming pages and defending their locations without any basic discussion. It seemed he really had a goal to wipe out "Romantic" language usage in this province. On the other hand, I'm very proud for multi-lingual solutions I pushed for with Trentino-Alto Adige/Seudtirol and Bolzano-Bozen, etc. The utter lack of fighting on many of those pages is proof in the pudding. :) Icsunonove (talk) 04:05, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm a native English speaker from America, if you can call us English speakers. :-) My roots are from T-AA/BZ, and they are fundamentally "Ladin", but obviously also Italic cand Germanic. Anyway, I added more searches, see if they are improved. Icsunonove (talk) 04:21, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Since you're responsible...

for getting me to look at article Type I and type II errors, can you help the fourth paragraph in that lede? While reducing it to simple English would be too much to ask of you (but would help me), could you tell me if you agree that

... perhaps because the information is incorrect, appears more compelling that it really is, whereas a type two error is to that evidence that should substantially change ones prior estimate does not, ...

is wrong twice-over? I'm'a thinking it should be "appearing more compelling" and "type two error is that". Read the entire sentence through first, because I'm only showing the problem section, then recheck? I'd change it, but after witnessing the discussions at the WP:MOSPOOL, I know I'd get it wrong(er).   :-) Shenme (talk) 03:17, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

your stab in the back

I've just read your little offering at the recent ANI. I don't think I could bring myself to stab you in the back like that. Tony (talk) 06:26, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I used your name in vain

Hope you do not mind, but I quoted one of your comments and used your name in vain at Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (ships)#Military ships guidelines is inconsistent with Misplaced Pages naming conventions. Please let me know if you have an issue with this. Thanks, Kralizec! (talk) 17:10, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Acted without discussion

If you had an objection to the content of the Bible citation‎ page, why didn't you mention it _before_ moving it to a different namespace? If the issue is important to you, fixing it was another possible route.

What was your objective in moving the content to a different namespace? -Ac44ck (talk) 21:06, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/Merging_articles#Cross-namespace_moves

Generally speaking, other types of cross-namespace moves will be controversial and worth discussing with other editors. Misplaced Pages:Requested moves is the proper place for this. However, when proposing to move what appears to be an article out of the main namespace, it is strongly recommended that some form of Misplaced Pages:Deletion process should be used, preferably Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion, as Misplaced Pages:Proposed deletion and Misplaced Pages:Speedy deletion do not build consensus. This is because the redirect that is created by such a move is subject to speedy deletion, which would effectively cause the article to be deleted from the main encyclopedia.

Sigh.

Please move the content back to article space. -Ac44ck (talk) 08:27, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

• Do you believe that the recent changes made by Ac44ck to the article have created "a non-prescriptive, non-proscriptive, but descriptive article on the various ways in which the Bible has been, and is cited"? If not, what needs changing? Reply on the talk page would be appreciated. Thanks. --Bejnar (talk) 20:21, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

• There were many ways to handle the problems you perceived in the Bible citation article. Your solutions were uninspired. The first paragraph in the reply here may be of help:

Talk:Darcy–Weisbach_equation#Confusion_with_the_Fanning_friction_factor

- Ac44ck (talk) 01:59, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Signpost updated for November 17, 2008 and before.

Because the Signpost hasn't been sent in a while, to save space, I've condensed all seven issues that were not sent into this archive. Only the three issues from November are below.

Weekly Delivery

You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot (talk) 10:29, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

ANI-notice

Hello, Pmanderson. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. -Ac44ck (talk) 00:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

A reply to you at my talkpage

Yes, there is one now.–_⊥Noetica!– 08:34, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

MOSNUM

While I object to being referred to as a "single-purpose irritant" I appreciate your support for my right to put the question. It looks like I am not going to get an answer though because the question has now been buried amongst all the IEC garbage. My objective is to assess whether there is indeed a point of principle here that does indeed have consensus. Is that too much to ask? Thunderbird2 (talk) 19:29, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I answered here. Thunderbird2 (talk) 20:03, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

the {{tfd}} template

I noticed you'd applied this to {{intro-tobe}} after it had caused me some confusion. Unfortunately it has rather specific syntax, needing the full {{tfd|{{subst:PAGENAME}}}} syntax to work correctly when the template it is applied to is transcluded onto other pages. I edited it, and thought you'd like to know. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 17:04, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Occurrence-in-subtuple problem

Is the formula at the end a trivial formula/solution? Have you more information on this topic?
I would be interested in further information for this, if you have... in my institute my colleagues said no, there is no trivial solution for this question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Biolex2 (talk • contribs) 18:12, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Reply on Frederick III, German Emperor

Hey, I hope you didn't miss the undented reply under your latest one. I tried to undent the replies so it wouldn't get too scrunched to the side. Just so you don't get lost, haha. --Banime (talk) 13:20, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Lazare Ponticelli

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you. Ohconfucius (talk) 03:27, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Root of all evil?

I notice this line from WP:COMMONNAME is being cited in the flora discussion:

Convention: Except where other accepted Misplaced Pages naming conventions give a different indication, use the most common name ...

It appears this line was snuck in there without much consideration or discussion a couple of years ago, and is being used more and more as basis to ignore the common name convention. It also happens to be the basis for defending the practice of predisambiguating in many specific conventions, including adding the state as a disambiguator for all articles about U.S. cities that are not on the AP list, whether disambiguation is called for in the individual case or not. And so the efficacy of the general conventions erode... --Born2cycle (talk) 14:55, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, there always need to be room for exceptions on an individual article basis Fixed-winged aircraft comes to mind). My objection is when a convention or guideline for an entire class of articles blatantly contradicts the general guidelines. That's what leads to the erosion of the efficacy of the general guidelines. --Born2cycle (talk) 16:43, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (flora)

this more recent version is better I still have some issues with the page (for example "Simultaneously, a separate page titled with the plant's scientific name should be created; this would be the place for botanical descriptions and relationships."), but they are minor in comparison with the change you have initiated. Let's see if it sticks. --PBS (talk) 16:35, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't agree that the dual-article-per-topic problem is minor. There should be one article titled per the common name of the topic (if there is one - by scientific name if not), and dabbed as needed per WP:D just like any other WP article. --Born2cycle (talk) 16:40, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Please move your Very Strong Oppose from the straw poll. Your proposal and endorsement are included in that section, your opposition should be obvious to other participants. The discussion is the 15 000+ words above the poll, if it is not already included then reinsert your comment in those sections. Reaching a solution requires a KISS approach, please help to bring about a resolution to this discussion by keeping the poll section short and simple. If you think your preference overrides a 250 year old convention that revolutionised our understanding of the natural world (the unambiguous, unique, and universally accepted nomenclatural system), your cause would be better served by clarifying your own proposal (and 'rationale') and expanding on that in the discussion sections. Your attempt to contradict every RS of any field with your interpretation of wikipolicy is, to say the least, ambitious. cygnis insignis 17:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

ROFL! Your reference to the Dark Ages brightened my morning. I was not countering your personal preference with one of my own, the system of nomenclature has been adopted by everyone. By your reckoning I can publish an 'english' name, then move articles to that new name - cool! I wonder what I should call this organism, Pmanderson's mushroom-type thing would effectively skirt the problem you have identified. cygnis insignis 04:16, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Coffee

I agree that Coffee the beverage and the plant could and arguably should be two distinct articles, I just think the names of each should both be Coffee, disambiguated as appropriate. Coffee (plant), for example, is far more in line with naming conventions, guidelines and policy than is Coffea. That is, in English, the plant is much more often referred to as Coffee than as Coffea. --Born2cycle (talk) 21:36, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Clock Tower, Palace of Westminster

I note that you have reverted my previous revertion of Phillip Baird Shearer's page move of Clock Tower, Palace of Westminster to Big Ben. In the comments you state that another WP:RM is required to achieve revertion.

However, PBS originally moved the page after unilaterally ignoring the results of the previous RM, which was no clear consensus to move. He went ahead anyway, employing spurious reasoning, against established policy concerning consensus. So what would be the point of having another RM? The results of that could just be ignored too, making the whole thing a double waste of everyone's time. What is the point of having an RM in the first place, let alone a second, if the admin just goes ahead and makes their own biased decision anyway? Chillysnow (talk) 02:38, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Frederick III, German Emperor FAC

Hey, thanks for your comments on Frederick III, German Emperor's FAC. I have gone through your oppose and addressed all of your concerns, with the exception of the concern about the legacy section. I stated my opinion on the page that the secondary sources did give those opinions, not the wikipedia editors, and the net result of the legacy section is "neutral" in that it shows both sides and doesn't come to a hard conclusion so it is not pushing any sort of POV. I have replied with more specifics on the FAC page as well if you'd like to take a look. I'd really appreciate it if you could relook your stand on this issue, as I feel because it is in all of the secondary sources it should go into the article in a NPOV manner, which I believe is already done. Thanks, and if you'd like to discuss more please let me know. --Banime (talk) 15:55, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey, have you read my responses and arguments at the FAC and talk page? Is there anyway I can clarify them more for you? I want to make sure you understand them fully and I definitely don't want this to become an edit war. --Banime (talk) 23:35, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey again, I want to make sure theres no hint of a conflict between us. Arguments are fine, since we're working together they inevitably happen. I do thank you for your contributions and review to the article, however. I just disagree with you very much on that one point, and I feel no action can be taken on it by anyone due to the nature of the concern which I feel is a bit mistaken. Thanks again and if you have more questions you can ask. --Banime (talk) 14:06, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I really want to make this work. I understand all of your concerns, you really don't want to put undue weight to any side of an argument. While I disagree that the date of the source matters, do you have anything you can suggest that I try to improve the article? Thanks --Banime (talk) 18:56, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXIII (November 2008)

The November 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 17:55, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

JSTOR Request

Hi PM, I saw you're listed at Category:Wikipedians who have access to JSTOR; does this mean you can provide me with a full article from JSTOR, or just with information taken from an article in JSTOR? I'm working on expanding the National Agricultural Library article, and the only information on the history of the library that I can find is in an article on JSTOR, but unfortunately I don't have access to it, and the nearest library that has it is about 2.5 hours away. Thanks! SheepNotGoats (Talk) 19:20, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Language cranks

You said, "Like much of the Manual of Style, WP:DASH is the product of language cranks, who see WP as a means to reform the English language to their liking." Heve you discussed this elsewhere? — AjaxSmack 22:30, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Anderson, I strongly object to the comment you made at that talk page, to which AjaxSmack draws attention here. As I have pointed out at that page, your gratuitously offensive remark was occasioned by an apparent elementary misunderstanding of WP:DASH. I took the trouble to correct that for the editor who misunderstood; you merely took the opportunity to continue your smear campaign against MOS editors. I, as you well know, am prominent among them. See my further remarks at WT:MOS.

–_⊥Noetica!– 00:20, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Cygnis

Ta. Hesperian 22:26, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Monmouthshire

Not a joking matter for some, as I know to my cost... Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Australians in Britain

Hi. I don't understand your comment here. I wasn't point scoring - the proper name of the country is the United Kingdom, not Britain. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:24, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Cause and effect

As I said earlier, I had intended to stay out of that “date” biz on WT:MOSNUM until I saw you jump all the hell over a newcomer and slap him down as you did. If you had treated him with civility and toned down the arrogance, I think you wouldn’t have seen me hop in the saddle on this one. This is all just a suggestion; you can have it your way too. Cause and effect. Greg L (talk) 01:52, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Just like to say. Thank you for your support at the MOSNUM talk page. I'm beginning to feel like the whole of wikipedia has gone stark raving mad over this issue over the last couple of months. So it is refreshing to hear a voice of reason. Hopefully, sanity can be restored at some point in the future. I hope we can work together. Please don't hesitate to contact me if you think I can help you with anything. Just out of interest, what do you think of my proposals for the MOSNUM policy? G-Man 23:41, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Please stop vandalizing

Please stop vandalizing the IDF RfC by putting comments up in the hat statement. Those comments are already located in the section where they belong: the Comments section. Moreover, those comments have already been responded to. We certainly don’t you salting duplicates wherever you please. Unless you can present your *I am really, REALLY special* license for inspection, you can conform to the code of conduct on RfCs that other editors abide by. Greg L (talk) 01:24, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Frederick III, German Emperor

No need for an edit war, just start up a new conversation on the talk page and if you're right a new consensus will develop. I know you're disappointed but don't be, if you really think its wrong then the facts will be on your side and it'll come towards your view. I've explored your view a number of times though and frankly I think you are a bit misled in this instance. Good luck though on future edits, but please discuss on talk pages before trying to overturn consensus and tag FAs. Thanks. --Banime (talk) 20:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Which size for xt?

PMA: Please see Template:Xt/Sandbox and leave a note here on Template_talk:Xt (a quick link to this talk page is also provided at the top of the sandbox) as to what range of sizes you find acceptable. Greg L (talk) 18:33, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Edits to Richard Hawes

I respectfully disagree with your recent edits to Richard Hawes. First, the historical marker "notes" that an inauguration took place. "Asserts" seems to me to cast doubt upon the fact that the event happened. The fact is, there was an event and Hawes was inaugurated governor of a group known as the Confederate government of Kentucky. The fact that the marker "notes" the event does not lend legitimacy to the government itself; it simply recognizes the fact that an event took place whereby Hawes assumed executive power in the group. The caption does not say Hawes was inaugurated governor of Kentucky; that would be grossly inaccurate. It does say Hawes was inaugurated Confederate governor of Kentucky; that is a fact.

Second, the Russellville Convention did enact a new constitution – one that dictated rules of operation for the Confederate government of Kentucky. The fact that it had no discernible effect on most Kentuckians is really irrelevant. If I declare my house and yard to be Acdixonland and draft a constitution to govern the inhabitants of Acdixonland, the fact that said constitution is totally ineffective does not change the fact that the document was created. As above, the article does not assert that the Confederate constitution supplanted the actual constitution of Kentucky; it merely states that the convention drafted a constitution, that this constitution prescribed a method of electing a new governor, and that this procedure was followed by adherents of the Confederate government. In fact, your edit is the less accurate of the two. The Russellville Convention did not affirm the Kentucky Constitution; it adopted all measures of that constitution that were not inconsistent with the document drafted at Russellville. Acdixon 22:51, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

The oath of office need not be a part of an inauguration. Misplaced Pages's article on the subject defines "inauguration" as "a formal ceremony to mark the beginning of something such as a president term of office." Whether Hawes took the oath of office or not is immaterial given this definition; it marked the start of his term as Confederate governor. A celebration of such a ceremony is documented; if there was no such ceremony, what did Buell interrupt? Besides, all of the government's records subsequent to the event acknowledge Hawes as governor. I highly doubt they would have recognized him as such without his having taken the oath of office. The only cause for doubt is a denial Hawes made in the aftermath of the war, when admission of disloyalty may well have been punished with death, or at least ostracism. This seems a pretty flimsy basis for doubt to me.

It also seems that your most recent edit goes to great lengths to stress the irregularity of the Russellville Convention. It seems to me that the fact that the government was in exile and traveling with an army says pretty much everything that needs to be said about the legitimacy they possessed and the efficacy with which they operated. Regarding their "affirmation" of the Kentucky Constitution, they definitely saw themselves as a provisional government, but the permanent government they hoped would eventually replace them would likely have looked much different to the one previously constituted. I'll leave your edit as-is until we hash this out a little further. I've copied this discussion to the article's talk page; let's continue it there. Acdixon 00:22, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Lafayette

PMAnderson: Would you be willing to remove the large tags across of the top of the article? I saw the other day that the clean-up category had over 100,000 articles in it; I would imagine the tag is not going to draw a skilled copy-editor. I just now started re-editing the article; and, I find it quite abrasive that you immediately tagged the article after I've been active on it for less than 24 hours.

I assure you that I will try and copyedit the article to the best of my ability; and, later, approach others with more copyediting skill to do the same. It is quite disheartening; I'd rather that we worked together to improve the article than it be tagged. Also: no one is in dispute currently about anything, that I am aware.

Why is it tagged that we are disputing the article? You made your opinions quite apparent during the FAC--I am working to address those--how do you feel that the blatant tagging and calling it "utter trash" is helpful? I haven't even touched the sections you mentioned since the previous FAC. I feel you are being provocative; I am clearly trying to edit the article with your suggestions in the forefront of my mind. I would much rather work with you than against you. Lazulilasher (talk) 04:04, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

To clarify: Yesterday, I began editing the article in light of your suggestions. This was after nearly 7 weeks away from it. I approach this as an incremental affair. Do you honestly think it necessary to, immediately after I start editing it again, call it "trash" and begin placing tags all over the place? Is it something about me? I mean, why do you do this right after I begin trying to improve it again? I'm just completely confused. Lazulilasher (talk) 04:11, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Reply: Of course I will approach you. I'd intended to always; but, did not feel the need to waste your time until I was finished. And, I hope that you are willing to help fix the idiomatic language. I assure you that I have no bias; and, welcome all help you offer to assure a NPOV. But, please, your actions indicate that your problem is with me, not the article. From my point of view, I just began to start work when you slam it as "trash". Can't this not be more of a collegial affair? Otherwise: why should I even bother? No one else works on the article. Lazulilasher (talk) 04:17, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I am glad it is not about me. I sincerely just want to make the article better. Anyway, the best indicator of progress, if you are interested, is the copy of the FAC in the article talk-space. I am replying and addressing all of the concerns one-by-one and commenting on the actions I've performed. Lazulilasher (talk) 04:23, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

And yes, I do make lots of minor edits. I know that can be annoying, but it is easier on my browser. Lazulilasher (talk) 04:30, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

I know you're on vacation; but, do you think I can remove the little tidbit about Lafayette holding up his son to save the priest? Lazulilasher (talk) 16:36, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Writing you

I have. Nousernamesleft (talk) 21:29, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Update

Hi, you mentioned that you would be returning from a break on the 26th. I wanted to advise that I vastly underestimated how much work I'd be able to accomplish on the article in that time. I was able to add bits to the French Rev section; but, not as much as I would like. One area I did try to augment specifically was the background surrounding Lafayette's impeachment and decision to cross enemy lines; previously, the article left the impression that he played a reactive rather than proactive role. Regardless, I wanted to advise you that I was able to achieve much less than I had envisioned; further, much of what I added was "pegged" on without much thought to narrative flow. I'd intended to work back into that today and tomorrow; but, perhaps I had been a little overzealous. I likely won't get many improvements completed over the two-three days.

Lastly: I agree 100% about Lafayette's lovers. I do not immediately recall her name, but I remember reading of one young belle with whom he was quite involved during the 20s. Again, I will be working back into it; but, wanted to alert that I had been overreaching with my initial estimate of work "to-do". Kindly Lazulilasher (talk) 21:57, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Solomon Sharp FAC

Just wanted to touch base with you on your comments regarding my featured article nomination of Solomon P. Sharp. Were my edits there sufficient to address your concerns? If so, would you mind striking them through so the featured article director can see that they have been addressed? Do you feel you can now support the article's promotion to FA? Acdixon 04:34, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Wimsey family

Hi PM :) I have gone to bat for the Mortimer Gerald Bredon Wimsey, 15th Duke of Denver article, which someone was proposing for deletion. While I am obviously not a fan of the increasingly disheartening tendency of some contributors to bureaucruftily destroy useful information just because they have never heard of it, I can see that some people might fail to see a need for a separate dedicated article for this single minor member of the Wimsey family (however notable its better known scions). Accordingly, I suggest it may be a good idea to merge this and other lesser known members of the Wimsey family (such as Thomas George Churchill Wimsey, 10th Duke of Denver) into a dedicated "list of" article (which would also be easier to protect from deletion addicts). What do you think?

You may also find it of interest that I have created a starter stub for Gerald Christian Wimsey, 16th Duke of Denver, arguably the most notable of the Dukes of Denver, which oddly enough did not seem to exist yet. I hope you will be able to fill in more details, as I currently have no access to source materials other than my memory :) Nude Amazon (talk) 09:17, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Greeks

Hello! It was suggested to me by 3dAlcove that you might possibly be interested in critically reviewing the Greeks article for any signs of bias and non-npov. I would appreciate that as a third party can spot issues not immediately apparent to those involved. Thank you and I am always at your disposal for any clarificaitons or suggestions you have.--Xenovatis (talk) 12:46, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

reply--Xenovatis (talk) 20:34, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

You know better

Come on, you're no newbie, you know how things work around here. Stop being disruptive to make a point. This is unacceptable. Guettarda (talk) 20:31, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

You've been here a long time, I seem to remember seeing you involved in debates around guidelines and policies. Established policies and guidelines are not overthrown simply because two or three editors come along and proclaim their unhappiness with the policy or guideline. If that were the case just about every policy would be long gone. Are you really unaware of the way things work around here? Is that really what you are saying? I find that assertion mind-boggling.

I am willing to assume that you are acting in good faith, and that you really don't know these things. If that is the case, I would strongly suggest that you familiarise yourself with the basic rules and policies of Misplaced Pages before you choose to edit policy and guideline pages again.

It would never have occurred to me that you didn't know this. Honestly, I am shocked. But if that is the case, I apologise for thinking that you were familiar with the way we do things around here. Guettarda (talk) 21:20, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

While I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt before, it's obvious now that either (a) you are unwilling to educate yourself about how we make rules here (in which case you are being disruptive), or (b) you are simply being disruptive to make a point. Regardless, STOP. Guettarda (talk) 21:38, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Consensus exists. A small number of editors are unhappy with that consensus, and are trying to create a new one. That's the way the system works. Simply declaring that it doesn't because you don't like it isn't the way we do things here. Since you claim to be unaware of the way that we work here, I asked to you educate yourself about the way we work. Instead, you chose to be disruptive. All I ask is that you cease your disruption and let the involved editors work towards a new consensus. Guettarda (talk) 21:50, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

And you are now one revert away from being blocked - I suggest you cool your jets. Stan (talk) 23:13, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to use Georgia on {{xt}}

It has been proposed to use Georgia on {{xt}}. It has a larger x-height than Times New Roman, so it wouldn't have the size problem.

Example

Write 5 cats and 32 dogs or five cats and thirty-two dogs, not five cats and 32 dogs.

What do you think? The discussion is at Template talk:Xt. -- Army1987 – Deeds, not words. 13:10, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Good cop, bad cop?

Sometimes I get the impression that you try to be the good cop to Born2cycle's bad cop. I know that's cynical of me, but if I'm right, please try to do a better job of it, because Born2cycle has his role down pat.--Curtis Clark (talk) 16:18, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

The problem is I can't find the merits of the arguments anywhere. I looked. I spend 2 days reading and trying to find them before I posted. The merits are lost in pounds and pounds of words, of accusations, of pointless, useless, discussion about things that are so far off the track of what this is purportedly about that I'm certain at least half the editors there don't know what Born2cycle is proposing. I'm thinking close to 100% don't care in the face of the onslaught of insults about how we're damaging Misplaced Pages by daring to edit any other way than under his/her command.

If Born2cycle's arguments have merits, let him/her spend some time to find them, present them, and stop attacking other editors, but rather focus on the merits of whatever it is he/she is proposing. Until the merits of his/her arguments are strong enough to stand out above the venom (meaning in his/her mind), assisting him/her in continuing to create this hostile atmosphere among plant editors will only be seen as a green light to go ahead and do this in some other area.

No other group of editors will welcome being personally attacked, insulted, and lamely passively/aggressively told they are damaging Misplaced Pages by their editing.

Misplaced Pages could stand improvement in a lot of areas, still. Editors who come here to do that could be effective if they didn't lose their message in their lack of diplomacy.

Calling us the "floral cabal," however, is the first time that anyone has accused the plant editors of working together on anything. But it also just shows that Born2cycle didn't even bother to learn anything about the plant editors as a group before starting this attack.

--KP Botany (talk) 17:54, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Champ de Mar question

I'm having trouble with two points in the newly revised Champ de Mars section. First, the sequence of events. Sources variously give differing sequences, some say Lafayette gave an order, some don't, etc... The other area I am having trouble in is the deaths; estimates, again, vary. They range from a bit more than a dozen to around 50 (seems to be the most accepted, from what I can tell) to 400 hundred, to thousands. How do we fairly represent this in the article? Lazulilasher (talk) 00:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Just wondering...

PManderson, a few weeks ago you wrote, "I continue to oppose this; Serge does not see the advantage of predictable names, but he is almost alone in this inability." link I wonder how you reconcile this statement with your position at flora. At the time I started the discussion at WP:NC, I was not aware of the flora guideline wording. However, it is a good example of exactly the kind of problem I was addressing. Yet at flora, it is the flora editors who are on the side of defending the "advantage of predictable names", and you, along with me, defending the advantage of using common names when possible. I assume you would agree that it's not fair to describe our agreed position at flora as "not seeing the advantage of predictable names". I wonder if you still feel that is a fair assessment of my views. --Born2cycle (talk) 00:58, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought you were one who argued the difference between Joshua Tree and Joshua tree is a distinction of significance. If so, how do you reconcile that with your settlements example of Matewan/Matawan being "the same"? --Born2cycle (talk) 02:56, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Surely you're not arguing that Matewan and Matawan are closer etymologically than are Joshua Tree and Joshua tree. That aside, I hope you can at least appreciate my argument a bit more now, and recognize that it is simply not true that I don't see the advantage of predictable names, it's just that I see the advantage of using common names as being more important. --Born2cycle (talk) 04:19, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Signpost updated for November 24, 2008 through January 3, 2009

Three issues have been published since the last deliver: November 24, December 1, and January 3.

Weekly Delivery

You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list.--ragesoss (talk) 21:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

re:Rollback

Hi, Pmanderson. I enabled rollback rights for you, as it looks like you want it mainly for the flagged revisions debate. There was the edit-war/block incident you had back in July, and I trust that you will not use rollback to edit-war in the future. You've been around long enough to know that misuse will result in loss of the tool, so I don't need to say any more about that. I have only been paying minor attention to the flagged revisions debate, but did expect there to be additional requests for rollback associated with it, especially if it passes. Regards, Parsecboy (talk) 05:15, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

That's what I figured; the main drawback to rollback is you can't use custom edit summaries, so it's really only useful for reverting obvious vandalism. I still use the undo button for most of the reverts I make. Regards, Parsecboy (talk) 18:40, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

FlaggedRevs on German Misplaced Pages

You've been stating that the median waiting time for reviewing new revisions on German Misplaced Pages is three weeks. I think you are misreading the report: it says that they've been keeping the all unreviewed edits at under three weeks, and that the median waiting time of those listed as unreviewed at a given time is one week. This means that the actual median waiting time for all edits made by those without the reviewer flag is significantly lower than that, since edits that are reviewed quickly don't stay on the list for very long.--ragesoss (talk) 05:19, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Pao Ming Pu

Hi, the assertion that the cultural revolution in china is an infamous event is I think agreed upon by most western scholars. It might be controversial at the chinese wikipedia but it is unlikely to be controversial here. You may note that user:Keyi himself has acknowledged that Pu was repressed for 4 years during that period. What is the point of making a tempest in a teapot about well-known facts? Katzmik (talk) 16:07, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Kyklōpes

I can't get too excited about Category:Cyclopses vs. Category:Cyclopes; is it even a useful category? The first is probably preferable on Misplaced Pages simply because it is the 'popular' form. --macrakis (talk) 16:12, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Link on

Just wondering why you pasted a link to article about Obama's CIA pick on the Misplaced Pages talk:Flagged revisions/Trial page - accident? Can I remove it? Graymornings_(talk) 19:00, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Gan Ying

Somehow I missed the fact that a long time ago you added the phrase, "Gan Ying also described the adoptive monarchy of Nerva" to the article on Gan Ying. I have just added a "citation needed" tag to this statement as I am not sure this can be demonstrated, and thought I should let you know. If you do have information supporting this I would love to hear about it - even if it is only a theory. All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 23:26, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi again! Thanks for your reply on my Talk Page and the Gan Ying talk page. I am not sure what you mean to imply with your statement, "If you find it necessary to be silent, that would be regrettable" - I have never said anything about remaining silent and, at least on this subject, I certainly don't intend to. The point of discussion here is, I believe, about Gan Ying's account in which he says that: "Their kings are not permanent. They select and appoint the most worthy man. If there are unexpected calamities in the kingdom, such as frequent extraordinary winds or rains, he is unceremoniously rejected and replaced. The one who has been dismissed quietly accepts his demotion, and is not angry."

I have always assumed that this was probably a fantastic tale Gan Ying was told (possibly by sailors) when he was in Parthia. As we know, he never managed to reach Roman territory, so all the information he gathered was, at best, second-hand. I have never thought that his account of some sort of democratic process of choosing leaders in Rome was believable.

You added a statement to the article saying that, "Gan Ying also described the adoptive monarchy of Nerva." This might be so - the timing is right - but there is no other evidence that I know of to support this assertion. That is why I put a "citation needed" tag on the claim and wrote to you to inform you I had done so. I still think Gan Ying was probably just repeating a fabulous tale. Unless there is some real evidence relating his account to Nerva's accession I think you should remove this statement. It wouldn't hurt, of course, to make it plain that Gan Ying's description of the process of choosing Rome's leaders was idealistic in the extreme, and certainly not factual. Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 03:05, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

PHG ArbCom request

I've posted a request for possible additional evidence at Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for arbitration/PHG/Evidence. Cool Hand Luke 18:51, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Flagged Revs

Hi,

I noticed you voted oppose in the flag revs straw pole and would like to ask if you would mind adding User:Promethean/No to your user or talk page to make your position clear to people who visit your page :) - Thanks to Neurolysis for the template   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 06:44, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

WP:Page movement

Hi. Reposting this message to you as I know it will be of particular interest. Please contribute to Misplaced Pages:Page movement and Misplaced Pages talk:Page movement. I have started this proposal as an attempt to formalize and/or get down in writing some of WP:RM custom and etiquette, as well as give an opportunity to institute some things, such as rubber staming the status of WP:RM as the device for resolution of conflict regarding page movement as well as instituting a WP:RM appeal process. It would also be good if we could consider centralizing discussions and/or formalizing the means of doing so, at least regarding mass moves proposals. Regards, Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 13:10, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Date delinking arbitration

I've started a request at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration#Date delinking which you may wish to comment on. —Locke Cole • t • c 03:13, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXIV (December 2008)

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This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 04:25, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Indo-Greek sources

Hi Pmanderson. You seem to be arguing that I essentially rely on Tarn for my sourcing in the Indo-Greeks, but that's quite untrue. Tarn was definitely my first introduction to the subject, but besides him I have relied most extensively on Bopearachchi and Senior. Actually I have been relying on about 30 sources (which I all own) for my work on the Indo-Greeks (listed here). It is true I do not have much leaning for A.K. Narain though (even of I created his article:), but this is more due to the general weakness of his arguments. I am looking forward to your understanding. Cheers PHG (talk) 20:48, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi Pmanderson. If your point is specifically about Ujjain, I think I have not used Tarn as a source, but rather the much more recent Mitchener: "A distinctive series of Indo-Greek coins has been found at several places in central India: including at Dewas, some 22 miles to the east of Ujjain. These therefore add further definite support to the likelihood of an Indo-Greek presence in Malwa" John E. Mitchener, 2002, "The Yuga Purana", p.64 (referenced with quote in the Indo-Greek kingdom article). Besides, I think you should stop qualifying me as "a dedicated believer in Tarn's most dated picture, who has no real understanding of the sources or the issues" : this is highly uncivil, and, besides, quite untrue. I would appreciate if you could correct such accusations and avoid such language. Cheers PHG (talk) 20:57, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi Pmanderson. I did not create a map by myself at all. I only used existing maps, such as the Westermann map (attached, Großer Atlas zur Weltgeschichte), the Historical Atlas of the Indian Peninsula (Oxford University Press), and Narain "Coin types of the Indo-Greeks". The three maps were simply compiled to show the extent of the various sources available. Cheers PHG (talk) 21:40, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Mitchener

Hi Pamanderson. For your information John Edward Mitchener is a British scholar and diplomat. He is a graduate of Bristol University and received an M.A and a Ph.D. from the School of Oriental and African Studies, London University. John Mitchener entered Britain’s diplomatic services in 1980. After positions in Istanbul, New Delhi and Berne, he was appointed British Ambassador to Armenia from 1997 to 1999. In 2000, he was appointed British Deputy High Commissioner for Eastern India, in Kolkata, India. He is the author of numerous books and articles on Indian history and religion.

For the sake of exactitude, I suggest you correct your statement here. Mitchener is indeed (among other things) a specialist of Indian history. PHG (talk) 08:10, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

1. Foreign and Commonwealth Office “UK in Armenia”
2. Foreign and Commonwealth Office “UK in Armenia”
3. British Commercial News “Coal India subsidiary mines with joy”
4. British Commercial News “For old times”
5. Foreign and Commonwealth Office “UK in Armenia”

More on Mitchiner

See Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for arbitration/PHG/Evidence#Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/PHG/Evidence#Ujjain submitted by Septentrionalis. Cool Hand Luke 02:50, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Archive

Just a friendly reminder for you to archive your talk page. It's currently running at 342kb, something which takes obscenely long to load on smaller computers. NuclearWarfare _(Talk) 01:03, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Ditto. Some people's browsers start having trouble with anything over 32K, and this page is currently over 10x that size. Pmanderson, would it be alright if I setup an archivebot for your talkpage? This would automatically archive any threads which had been inactive for a certain period of time, and then you wouldn't have to worry about it anymore? --Elonka 16:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Done. No thanks, I have not installed a bot because I may want to keep some old messages, as I have done at the top of this page. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:28, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Eduard Müller (German politician)

Hallo! Due to your edits to Duchy of Pless, I think you could contribute sources from JSTOR to Eduard Müller (German politician), maybe, an article which I intend to nom for DYK. Also, you might want to archive your talk, it's over 340k and takes long to load. -- Matthead  Discuß   06:50, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Date delinking

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Date delinking/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Date delinking/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Ryan Postlethwaite 23:51, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

• MBisanz did not present any evidence against you - I did. DO you have something against him? Ohconfucius (talk) 03:37, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

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RfArb: Date delinking

Hi, I just wanted to drop a line to thank you for the proposals you made. It focussed my mind on the debate and led to my proposals. I hope you don't take my debating the points with you as anything personal (and I guess I'm not upset about being called a 'Wikilawyer' - although I didn't intend to set out to be one). I honestly believe that the sooner we can thrash out the arguments and reach a conclusion, the sooner we can get back to normality. I genuinely appreciate your willingness to debate with candour and without rancour. Let's hope everybody participates in that spirit. Sincerely --RexxS (talk) 05:44, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

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Delievered by SoxBot II (talk) at 00:49, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

"POV fest"

Why did you not continue to weigh in on the Kingdom of Mysore? Your position was valuable to the FAR. I wish you had continued! Regards, —Mattisse (Talk) 02:25, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

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		The Teamwork Barnstar
		For constructive collaboration in real time on several Naming Conventions without useless reverting , I award you the Teamwork Barnstar Jasy jatere (talk) 10:40, 10 February 2009 (UTC)