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Revision as of 01:54, 4 November 2005

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Request block on Admin User:Ryan Delaney for violating page protection policy on Criticisms of communism

Ryan Delaney admits he purposely reverted this article when applying page protection, even though it wasn't a vandalism case. He has made all kinds of excuses which still add up to a violation of the rules more serious than a 3RR for instance, because he is an admin. See his talk page, my talk page, and the unprotection requests for detail.--Silverback 18:23, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

m:The Wrong Version. Ral315 (talk) 02:32, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

This page is already the subject of a request for arbitration. Protecting the page may spare us the need to enter a temporary injunction in that case. It's quite clear (to me) that the major warring parties are not making any real progress toward a consensus version of the article. Kelly Martin (talk) 02:46, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that I would very much prefer a temp. injunction to protection. It's like the choice between 3RR blocks and protection in an edit war. In my mind, blocks are always better, as they target the offender, and leave the article open to editing instead. We are a wiki, and protection is harmful to everyone, even the ones being good. It is much more harmful than an injunction which only targets the ones acting up. Dmcdevit·t 03:17, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

It's my impression that this case is nearly fully cooked and should be ready to go to voting soon; trying to put in an injunction may just delay resolution of the case. Kelly Martin (talk) 03:41, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Kelly Martin beat me to it. This article is subject to arbitration, so Silverback coming here was um, not really the brightest idea ever. Is the AMA still active at all? Having advocates around for this kind of procedural thing would save people a LOT of embarresment. Kim Bruning 03:45, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Yep, were still around. Sam Spade 03:50, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:AMA Advocates accepting inquiries. What interest did reverting the article prior to protection serve? Sam Spade 03:53, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Ensuring protection on m:The Wrong Version, most likely. --Carnildo 04:53, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Ryan Delaney violated policy by deciding which was the right version and reverting to it. This is the type of policy violation which gives the impression of abuse of powers, probably because it is an actual abuse of powers. Carnildo thinks he is clever by citing the dismissive and mocking "The Wrong Version", but this is just the type of abusive behavior that "The Wrong Version" implies doesn't really exist or is just a matter of point of view. Ryan's behavior is an outright violation of policy, that I doubt "The Wrong Version" intended to take lightly. His behavior is an embarrassment. I tried to find the archive of his adminship vote, to see if he pledged not to abuse his powers. Hubris and adminship do not mix well.--Silverback 09:32, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

We are not going to entertain a demand to desysop an admin for one purported violation of the protection policy where the violation in question appears to have been in good faith. Let's check the outrage at the door and discuss this reasonably, ok? Hyperbolic screaming does not benefit your cause. Kelly Martin (talk) 12:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I never requested desysop'ing, and don't mistake persistance in pointing out hypocrisy and abuse for screaming. I wouldn't think more than a block for a couple days would be in order even if he refuses to correct his abuse. Protecting the article was a judgement call, I think it was unnecessary, but I can accept differences in such judgement calls. However, his revert was completely in violation of protection policy and was a POV prejudgement of the ARBCOM result. I'd be satisfied if he would put the article back in the version that he should have left it in. If he refuses to do so, then another admin should either perform the revert to the version that was in place at the time of the protection, or remove the protection completely and block Delaney, perhaps for 48 hours (this is more serious than a 3RR). Although if the admin just took the proper action in regard to the article, and did not block Delaney unless he put up a fuss. That would at least correct the violation that has been done. The only reason I can see for demanding more severe action is if Ryan resists attempts to correct his mistake in judgement, or if he himself stated when he was soliciting votes for his adminship that he would hold himself to a higher standard, such as never abuse his powers. While Ryan's actions represent an abuse of the powers entrusted to him, this does not approach the extent and severity of abuses that resulted in 172's last arbcom case for instance. What is really disappointing is the deference and failure to correct his actions not only by him, but by the admin community as a whole.--Silverback 13:51, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

The article was reverted back and forth between the two versions 6 times in the 24 hours prior to protection. As such, I do not believe it was in the least bit relevant which particular version happened to be on top at the precise moment of protection. Delaney could have simply waited a few more hours until the next inevitable revert. Or he could have tossed a coin to decide which version to protect. For all we know, maybe he did. I am no fan of protection myself, but your request that Delaney must "put the article back in the version that he should have left it in" seems little more than a thinly veiled demand to see the article protected with The Right Version on top. -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 20:00, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

You're right, it shouldn't have mattered which version was on top, but it did to Delaney, so he should not have been the one to impose protection, and he should not have reverted to the version he wanted. He abused his powers. I take it from what you say, that you would have no problem if the page was reverted to the version that he should have left in place at the time he imposed protection.--Silverback 22:25, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Blocking is preventative, not punitive. Requesting a block for an isolated instance of behavior of this type is a non-starter, especially since so much time has passed. android79 22:40, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Trolling, personal attacks: User:66.68.73.149

This editor and his various IPs has identified himself as DaveScot from the uncommondescent.com blog and been engaged in trolling, personal attacks at Talk:Intelligent design over the last week or so. He has been warned before but is continuing to do so. Guettarda and I are trying to keep him in check, but he's becoming increasingly disruptive and nasty. The following IPs are associated with this editor:

• 24.27.43.61 (talk · contribs)
• 66.69.216.76 (talk · contribs)
• 66.68.73.149 (talk · contribs)

FeloniousMonk 20:12, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Vandal/sock user: "Lets all vandalise Misplaced Pages together"

I noticed in the user creation log a user named Lets all vandalise Misplaced Pages together. No contribs yet, but best keep an eye on it. The Hokkaido Crow 01:02, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

After checking the user creation log you should check the block log too... :-) -- Curps 01:04, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

• Clearly a bad choice for a username. You don't need to be careful with names so blatant like this one. - Mgm| 05:56, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Mea culpa!

See WP:ANI#Double-checking_DG - there's two edits there from the two usernames that are very unlikely to have been from the same physical location. I still think it's pretty clear they're closely linked and in close communication, but they aren't in fact the same person. I've unblocked TheChief.

You will be pleased to know that there are likely to be five more CheckUser users soonish, so finding someone to independently check highly disputed results like this will be feasible - David Gerard 12:26, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Kelly Martin points out in the above link that it's possible to use widely-separated IPs, e.g. via a VPN. (I myself could edit legally using IPs on three continents.) But I still no longer feel safe in this one - David Gerard 12:47, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

For those concerned about CheckUser policy - please see m:Proposed CheckUser Policy and m:Talk:Proposed CheckUser Policy. m:Help:CheckUser is the user manual, with half of it being how not to break the privacy policy. Voting for CheckUser is as unlikely to happen as voting for root access - David Gerard 12:51, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Based on David Gerard's revised view that there is insufficient evidence of TheChief as a sockpuppet I have unprotected TheChief's user page and removed the sockpuppet notice. - Tεxτurε 15:35, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you, I missed that one - David Gerard 16:06, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I would like to ask any users with lingering questions to please come to my talk page with them. I think the healthiest thing for the community is to talk about these issues and get them out in the open. TheChief (PowWow) 17:20, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Talk:George P. Bush

Yes, George P. Bush, the son of Jeb Bush. Besides that simple fact, the only other thing he is notable for is an incident in 1994 in which he drove over a girlfriend's lawn, broke in through a bedroom window, and got in an argument with her father, after which he drove off across the lawn. The event was notable enough to hit The Smoking Gun and has between 130 and 1300 Google hits, but an individual on the talk page tells me that if I dare to put it in the article, the user, Cuchullain, will "request arbitration". The text has been in the article for quite sometime, and only now is this user repeatedly deleting it. The fact that so new a user would refuse to discuss it any further, and instead go straight to "requesting arbitration" is not suprising, but I'm not sure how to handle this. It's obvious no discussion will alleviate it. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-3 19:20

I've looked at the problem. I would say "damn the torpedos" and put it in there. If he's silly enough to file an RFAr against you for that, then let him. It'll be promptly ignored. Linuxbeak | Talk 19:29, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

The user is also deleting from Jeb Bush, Jr. the following things: 1) his mug shot (instead opting for no photo), 2) the fact that his mother was of Mexican decent (no clue why), 3) the external links that link to his arrest reports, 4) the details of his arrests. I'm starting to think he's on the Bush payroll :) — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-3 20:23

• Similar activity is also occurring at Columba Bush. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-3 20:25

Speaking as an arb, I would think it just about certain it would be rejected at this stage. He's not that new - he's been doing lots of work on the wiki since February. Probably time for a bit of applied diplomacy, if you can think of some. e.g. don't start with saying he's pushing an agenda even if you think he is ;-) I've left a note on the article talk page to this effect.

The AC has penalised people in the past for purging referenced information from pages, though that was a pathological case from a mission editor. In this one, the guy edits well elsewhere (I assume from the talk page conversations), so hopefully can be brought round - David Gerard 20:38, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I think you're referring to the Robert the Bruce case:

• Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Robert the Bruce

--Tony Sidaway 21:12, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Archive time again!

Could someone please archive old stuff from this page? It's getting really fat again ... - David Gerard 20:38, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

• Done. I don't think I archived any active conversations, but if I did, just yell at me so I don't do it again.--Scïmïłar 23:30, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

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