Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 17:44, 13 March 2004

Note: Unless you specify that you will be monitoring this page, I will respond to you on your talk page instead of mine. But if you want a speedier response or any response at all, answer on this page since I will probably forget to check yours.

Welcome from RickK

Hi. Welcome to Misplaced Pages. Note that this is an encyclopedia, not a dictionary. You may want to visit Wiktionary to add dictionary definitions. RickK 05:02, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Thanks. Yup, it's not a dictionary! I'm still finding my way around. I'm not sure you will see this, for example! User:Psb777

Hey, Psb, I don't think my email is turned off. But anyway, you posted on my Talk page. What did you want to say? RickK 18:36, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)

RCC

I am/was a Catholic and have never come across someone called a "deacon" in the Catholic Church. I am not saying they do not exist - but if they do they just cannot be particularly common.

I am amazed that you would think deacons are not commonplace in the Catholic Church. See Holy Orders and the online Catholic Encyclopedia or any of many Catholic web sites. And read the canons of the Council of Trent. Michael Hardy 20:30, 23 Jan 2004 (UTC)

As you mention, the online Catholic Encyclopedia has little about the current role of deacons. That's because it was written nearly 100 years ago. But inquire at the nearest Catholic church. Michael Hardy 03:57, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Also see and deacon. Michael Hardy 04:04, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Hello, I already performed your desired move. You may want to see Misplaced Pages:How to rename a page. I also deleted Roman Catholic Church new. I will move your comments over to Talk:Roman Catholic Church and delete again. Should I also delete Was Roman Catholic Church? --Jiang 19:26, 24 Jan 2004 (PST)

It is certainly not true that "typically there is no usher". This varies geographically. In large Catholic congregations in the USA, typically there are ushers. Did you do that google search I suggested? It is commonplace for Catholic churches in the USA to call certain lay persons "liturgical ministers" if they assist in minor (or major) ways at liturgies: altar servers, greeters, ushers, readers, extraordinary ministers of communion, various others.

The above undated paragraph was inserted by User:Michael Hardy well after I pointed out the regional differences in Catholic minister. Just examine the logs. Yet, here he is, seemingly pointing them out to me beforehand!

A google search on the words "Catholic", "liturgical", "minister" (i.e., all three words but not necessarily in that order) suggests that it is commonplace to regard altar servers, lectors, and even ushers as "liturgical ministers" in the Catholic church. Many parishes have a "liturgical minister schedule" on their web sites. Michael Hardy 02:15, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Stan

Yup. Stan 14:55, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC) You alerted me to wikis' exiistence in a reference to U.N.C.L.E. in one of your newsletters. what do I have to do/have in order to have a wiki of my own?

Trophallaxis Stan 16:56, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)

You send out unsolicited and opinonated newsletters. In knew something about trophallaxis that hadn't been recorded hitherto in wikipedia, and thought that perhaps you didn't know it either. Therefore I surmised that it might be news to you. quid pro quo. By analogy, your 'vomiting' your opinions on unsuspecting PSB newsletter recipients, invoked a reciprocal metaphorical self-referential trophallaxis by yours truly.

Incidentally, can you remember the other words that form the class of self-referential terms such as pentasyllabic - which has five syllables? I think there are about half a dozen words that fit this category.

A couple of jokes: (this one heard on Radio 4, so yo've probably already heard it). Guy gets stopped on the M25 for going too slowly. "But it's the M25", he explains to the traffic cop. "M25 doesn't mean you have to go at 25 m.p.h," retorts the cop, who then proceeds to inspect this driver's vehicle. On the back seat is a guy who's clearly in a state of trauma. "what's the matter with him?" the policeman asks the driver. "Oh, we just came off the B128."

And: A guy goes into a public library and asks the librarian for a Bigmac, large fries and medium Coke. The librarian explain,"You do realise this is a library." "Oh sorry", the guy replies, and then whispers, "I'll have a Bigmac, large fries and medium Coke."

Stan 17:25, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Please don't take me off your list. 217.44.157.197 Stan 02:01, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I don't think missspelt counts as a self-referential word. The test: If the subject on Just A Minute was 'self-referential' then would Nicholas Parsons allow the buzzer on 'missspelt' (with three esses) as a Deviation? I suggest he would, or at least would award a Bonus Point for a clever challenge. Stan 09:01, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC) - and of course you couldn't say miss-spelt properly without being done for hesitation! You can't have a word that requires hesitation in order to say it properly. How about he...sitation? You wouldn't allow that because you have to change the word to make it self-referential. Same applies to missspelt, plus the fact that you can misspell misspelt in - how many ways can you misspell misspelt, because they'd all be equivalent to missspelt? Stan 20:23, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Longest word?

Also see http://wiktionary.org/Lopadotemachoselachogaleokranioleipsanodrimhypotrimmatosilphioparaomelitokatakechymenokichlepikossyphophattoperisteralektryonoptekephalliokigklopeleiolagoiosiraiobaphetraganopterygon Stan 09:03, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Missphelt

I think you must give the reason missspelt should not be allowed Stan 20:32, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)

It is mis-spelt and therefore refers to itself. Which is, by definition, self-reference. Paul Beardsell 05:57, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Self-referential grokking

• pentasyllabic
• fifteen-lettered Stan 20:16, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
• mis-spelt (if that is wrong)

Moroccan Cuisine

Exchange between me and User:Bcorr moved to Talk:Cuisine of Morocco. Paul Beardsell 01:30, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

sub.sub - primitive Godel machine?

Do you remember sub.sub, the program you wrote all those years ago, the 4GL to end all 4GLs? I wrote a timesheet package in it. It's essential quality, evident in its self-referential name, was that it called itself.

The Godel machine is, I think, intended to be a projection of the Turing Machine, if projection is the right term - I think, incidentally that a Turing machine is also a fiction.

Sub.sub had the capability of being anything, depending on what you fed it. Is that not a characteristic it shares with the would-be Godel machine, and therefore should we not introduce the notion of degrees of Godel-ness (or perhaps Godelidity, or even Godelacity) in the lead-up to the development of an an actual Godel machine? The term I propose is primitive Godel machine, which can be applied to anything that applies recursion or more advanced schemes to engender a synergy that could tend towards serendipity, i.e. lead to the production of an actual Godel machine. Stan 20:21, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

The reason for strong reactions against Paul Vogel

Hi Paul. I wanted to give you a answer to your last comment on my talk page.

First, see Misplaced Pages:Conflicts_between_users#Paul_Vogel/65.125.10.66/24.45.99.191/216.99.245.171 for a little background

Also, I found the source of this quote that Paul Vogel is putting on various pages (including my talk page): It's here -- -- it's from a speech by Kevin Alfred Strom of the National Alliance. Here are some more quotes from the same speech:

• "One occasionally finds examples of real Jewish honesty. I know that will be startling to some of you, but it is undoubtedly true. In the last month, a huge controversy among Jews has emerged over a Jewish book which deals honestly with a central element in the Jewish tradition -- their belief in the inherent superiority of Jews over all non-Jews, a trait that imprisoned writer and thinker David Duke has christened 'Jewish supremacism.'"
• "The height of Jewish hypocrisy is reached when they condemn White people who believe in the White separatist ideals of, say, Thomas Jefferson or the National Alliance, as 'White supremacists' -- when the Jews themselves are the most thoroughgoing racial supremacists the world has ever seen."
• "I urge all of you to study these issues. An excellent way to begin is by reading Jewish Supremacism by David Duke. In this new work, Mr. Duke rips away the shroud of pretended morality from the ugly body of Jewish hate. He reveals the Jewish establishment for what it is: a maniacal racial cult based on hate, exploitation, and genocide of other peoples -- and a cult which is directing its considerable resources against the very survival of White European peoples."

All of Paul Vogel's edits that I've seen to a number of different articles are drawn from this speech. It is clear to me that his goal is to add specific text written by the National Alliance to Misplaced Pages -- not to add more info or points of view to articles. And that's exactly what he's done to the article I rewrote -- he'll be happy as long as those paragraphs stay in. I would urge you to edit the article and remove that text and see what happens -- not just as a test but because I think it doesn't belong in Misplaced Pages, and I'm sick of fighting that battle. -- Thanks, BCorr ¤ Брайен 05:48, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Copyvios and VfDs

Dear Paul, good morning! Thank you for your note about Goedel Machine. It was in the Copyvios and it was more than a week old. There was nothing on the talk or temp pages that suggested a permission. Since it was in copyvio, i dont think it ever lived in VfD. If you think its best, i can restore it and put it in VfD. My opinion is that there's no much point in this, because the article was of no encyclopaediac value. Cheers, Muriel 07:39, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Hello! The Copyvios page is Misplaced Pages:Possible copyrights infringements and works like Votes for deletion. If you spot a copy-pasted article, you should substitute it by the boilerplate of copyvios (you will find it in the page) and place the article in question on the list. The Votes for deletion is for articles you consider not worthy of an encyclopaedia. The Goedel machine is eligible for the two! Even if not a copyvio (because the author allows the release in Misplaced Pages), it certainly does not belong here. But this is my point of view. If you think is "salvagable" let me know, and i'll restore it. Cheers, Muriel 07:28, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Wot you need...

...is to become a sysop with the fantastical power to undelete. Stan 23:06, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Doctor

Woops! I overlooked your message earlier, Paul. Sorry about that. No matter. I see that someone has done the sensible thing with doctor already. Best -- Tony. (Tannin 10:43, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC))

Double woops! The change (which I entirely approved of, bar some bad wording here and there that should be easily fixed) has been reverted already, and by your good self! I am a bit slow today. I'll slip over there and put a re-drafted version up for your consideration. (BTW: this isn't a topic I especially care about, and I'll not be troubling with any edit wars over it, even if it should happen that we don't wind up agreeing.) Tannin

Power corrupts

"Power corrupts, but absolute power is even nicer." - Oscar Wilde. The judicious use of power is a challenge. Become a sysop and enjoy. Also see my contribution on stupidity Stan 23:25, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

What devices does one use in order to not obtain too much power? Does one require a special power in order to do this? In my view, expression of the sentiment I mustn't be given too much power is exactly the correct prerequisite to have power forced on you. Did you ever read Charles Handy's Understanding Organisations and his (or rather not his, but he mentions them) notions of tripods and bibods in relation to political power. He makes the point that it is only tripods - who are naturally averse to having power - who should have it, and not bipods, who tend to abuse it. I must infer that you are a tripod born and bred! Stan 19:13, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

POV or not POV

I'm still puzzled by this concept and wondered if you could enlighten me.

Suppose I were writing 500 years ago in Ye Olde Wykipedia and I put: "Travel north and you will reach the North Pole" Someone else would have come along and changed this to: "It is claimed that if you travel north you will reach the North Pole." Fair enough - they wouldn't have wanted to be burned alive at what was claimed by church authorities to be a stake.

But times have changed. It would be absurd for anyone now to claim that you could travel in any direction other than north to reach the North Pole. Therefore NPOV is time-dependent, based on the state of current knowledge.

Now when I have knowledge about something, surely it is more useful for my readers to know that something is true rather than just claimed to be so, i.e. this is an important distinction to make in a so-called encyclopedia. How do I make that distinction without well-meaning trolls coming along and changing all my certain truths into mere claims? The answer must have something to do with the authority of the original writer. Or is this a lost cause, and I have to accept one of the weaknesses of the wikipedia conception is that all its truths are mere claims, all part of the trend towards relativism wherein nothing can really be known by anyone.

If you know a better place to put my musings, e.g. village pump of something, then please indicate. Matt Stan 16:42, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)

AI

Can it do the Turing Test? Is that really you, Paul. Matt Stan 02:08, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Prittle prattle

Have you encountered this fellow: Fifelfoo? I am interested in detecting instances of artificial intelligence operating within wikipedia, particularly if they've had their Godel or Turing machine components disabled. Do you think there is any inverse correlation between brain size and swat difficulty? Matt Stan 01:08, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Apologize!!! tkorrovi

Apologize!!!