| Revision as of 10:19, 3 April 2009 editSpartaz (talk | contribs)Administrators52,776 edits →Response: endorse← Previous edit | Revision as of 10:42, 3 April 2009 edit undoWilliam M. Connolley (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers66,015 edits →Response: arghNext edit → | ||
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| # <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 08:29, 3 April 2009 (UTC) | # <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 08:29, 3 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
| # Abd should be topic banned from this whole area. The amount of time wasted is unacceptable. ] <sup>'']''</sup> 10:19, 3 April 2009 (UTC) | # Abd should be topic banned from this whole area. The amount of time wasted is unacceptable. ] <sup>'']''</sup> 10:19, 3 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
| # Fully agree with G and S ] (]) 10:42, 3 April 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == Outside view == | == Outside view == | ||
Revision as of 10:42, 3 April 2009
In order to remain listed at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this sysop and have failed. This must involve the same dispute, not different disputes. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~~~~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: 03:09, 3 April 2009 (UTC)), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is: 17:20, 2 January 2025 (UTC).
Statement of the dispute
JzG has used administrative tools with respect to articles with which he was involved, and with respect to editors with whom he was in dispute. JzG has ignored or rejected comments and requests regarding this, and has denied improper use of tools.
This RfC is filed solely to address the issue of use of tools while involved. Examples of involvement in disputes will be presented; it is irrelevant whether these might or might not violate any other policy or guideline.
Desired outcome
The community affirms that action while involved is improper, and confirms that JzG has done this. JzG assures the community that he recognizes the impropriety, and that such actions will not be repeated, and he himself reverses, or consents to the reversal of any of these actions still standing in effect, by any other administrator, and apologizes to affected editors. Alternatively, he resigns his administrative privilege or it is removed by further process.
Description
JzG long involved with Cold fusion
His first edit to Cold fusion was:
- 11:54, 13 July 2006 (Someone does not understand what "evenly split" means. A 2/3 majority against is not "evenly split".)
- This edit was reverted by Pcarbonn correcting JzG's misunderstanding.
JzG went on to make a total of 64 edits to Cold fusion, through January 30, 2009.
| List of 64 edits by JzG to Cold fusion |
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This is a list of all edits by JzG of Cold fusion from article creation to 00:01 Jan 30, 2009, with diffs, except that a self-reverted pair of edits isn't shown.
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Edit summaries showed POV position, for example:
- 09:26, 26 January 2009 (Further developments: and that is the usual cherry-picking and distortion, we have already been over this ground many times. The conclusion of the report is vastly more skeptical than these cher)
- 19:35, 27 October 2008 (Extreme WP:UNDUE in the lead; it is special pleading at its worst. So what if the CF advocates are still saying it exists? No new significant work since the 2004 review)
- 14:04, 8 December 2007 (External links: Hmm. That one smells strongly of kook to me)
- This was a removal of an External link to lenr-canr.org, a library of documents (most published elsewhere, many in peer-reviewed publications, and hosted by permission) related to Cold fusion, probably the best available. "Cold fusion" is considered a fringe science, though that is debatable (with reliable sources in conflict).
JzG's first edit to Talk:Cold fusion was:
JzG went on to make a total of 140 edits to Talk:Cold fusion, through January 30, 2009.
| List of 140 edits by JzG to Talk:Cold fusion |
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Edits to archives forTalk:Cold fusion
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- Many of these edits reveal a strong POV based on trusting information from a friend of his:
- You need to butt out. Advocating links to your own website is considered a form of spamming. You don't seem to do much other than that at present. Incidentally, my friend who worked with Fleischmann is a world class expert on electrochemistry with a publicaiton list as long as your arm, an endowed chair at a British university, a worldwide lecture schedule and a standard undergraduate text to his name. And he thinks it's not fusion. And he wrote one of the control systems for one of Fleischmann's original experiments. Beware the appeal to authority. Guy (Help!) 23:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
- This was in response to Jed Rothwell, a writer who has for many years specialized in low-energy nuclear reactions ("cold fusion"). He signs IP edits with his name and title, "librarian, lenr-canr.org", which is not a link. (The blacklist, ultimately invoked with these signatures as a justification, does not block them). After 2006 he has voluntarily confined himself to editing Talk pages in compliance with the COI guideline.
- "two peer-reviewed literature reviews" is WP:UNDUE big time. On the one hand, paper sin Nature and one of the most heated scientific controversies in my lifetime. On the other, two literature reviews in low-impact journals by interested parties. This is a perfect example of the way this article has been biased by Pcarbonn to reflect the pro-LENR POV, as documented in his self-congratulatory article in New Energy Times. I tis time for all the NET POV-pushers, especially Pcarbonn, to be topic-banned. Guy (Help!) 13:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
- This was in reference to this edit to the lead, removing reliably sourced information. The papers in Nature were published about twenty years ago, based on hasty attempts to replicate with inadequate information (we have ample reliable source on what happened), the "two reviews," though not in publications with the reputation of Nature, were much more recent and still RS. The purpose here is not to establish that JzG was "wrong," but to show that JzG was involved, with a strong POV. Pursuing a POV, again, isn't the topic here, but that he then supported his POV with his admin tools.
This AN report from July, 2008, shows, again, JzG's deep involvement with Cold fusion. He filed the report, and again referred to the source of his convictions on the topic. A friend of mine who was a grad student in one of the labs in which the original Fleischmann-Pons experiments were conducted, and who is still active in academia as a full professor in bio and electrochemistry at an English university, read through the FA version and said he considers it a fair representation of the field. I trust his judgment in a way I don't trust that of Pcarbonn.
Jed Rothwell and alleged copyvio
Many of JzG's problematic administrative actions are connected with Jed Rothwell, who is the "librarian" of lenr-canr.org. JzG long asserted copyright violation on the part of this website, "fringe," and "kook," which strikes at its very reason for existence, to reliably host otherwise difficult-to-access documents on the topic of low energy nuclear reactions (LENR) also known as chemically assisted nuclear reactions (CANR), or, popularly, Cold fusion. Within the field, Rothwell and lenr-canr.org are highly notable and the site is used to reference papers in reliable source. The allegation of copyright violation appears to stem from an assumption by JzG that if a paper is published by, for example, Elsevier, it is impossible to obtain permission to host it and, therefore, if it is hosted, it must be copyvio. This issue has been examined in detail in several fora, including review by an arbitrator, and the argument has been rejected. Many of JzG's edits to Cold fusion consisted of removals of links to this site, which were convenience copies of published papers; lenr-canr.org isn't the publisher, so "fringe" pales as an issue.
| 46 edits (41 explicit) asserting copyright violation at lenr-canr.org |
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at Cold fusion
in archives for Talk:Cold fusion
at MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist
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This is presented to show the depth and duration of conflict with Jed Rothwell, who was eventually declared banned by JzG, blocked, and blocked again for block evasion (though he had apparently not evaded the block); JzG blacklisted Rothwell's web site. (When the blacklisting was challenged here, JzG went to meta and requested blacklisting without reference to the dispute here; he asserted copyvio, linkspamming, unreliability, and fringe, and global blacklisting was granted, making the local blacklisting moot. Local whitelisting of links to lenr-canr.org is being pursued, one link has been whitelisted, but the process is cumbersome and JzG edit warred to keep the link out even after it was whitelisted. However, as this is written, it stands, after extensive discussion, see Martin Fleischmann, and last restoral of the link. JzG recently removed this same link from Cold fusion..
Powers misused
- Protection (JzG protection log, all pages):
- Talk:Cold fusion log
- 20:28, 30 January 2009 ... (expires 20:28, 30 July 2009 )... (http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration&oldid=267447809) , the Addendum re Gen ato.]
- 00:06, 12 December 2007 ... (expires 00:06, January 12, 2008 ) ... (Spamming and abuse from website owner)
- 14:51, 1 January 2008 Condensed matter nuclear science log (POV fork used to get round article proteciton)
- 12:16, 1 January 2008 Cold fusion research log (POV fork used to evade article protection, not really on.)
- 20:21, 6 December 2007 Cold fusion log (expires 20:21, January 6, 2008 (UTC) (Anon threastens to continue POV-pushing)
- Talk:Cold fusion log
- Deletion (JzG deletion log, all pages):
-
- Most deletions may be uncontroversial (but still improper because of involvement). However, this recent one was abusive, as can be seen from the restored Talk page (now archived). Merges may be undone later and Talk should remain. When this was restored, JzG moved the page to Talk:Condensed matter nuclear science/Archive, edit summaries (Archiving the twaddle) and (archived rampant POV-pushing.)
- Talk:Cold fusion/wip log
- User talk:ObsidianOrder/Cold fusion log
- User:ObsidianOrder/Cold fusion log
- Talk:Cold fusion/tmp log
- User:CMNS log This was a registered user, apparently, all contributions have been deleted.
- Blocking (JzG block log, all pages):
JzG blocked 5 IPs for "block evasion", stating or implying that the edits were by Jed Rothwell, even though two of them are from the wrong geographical area and were unsigned; Jed Rothwell consistently signs his edits.
- 23:53, 29 January 2009 blocked 68.219.198.240 (Block evasion) ...
- 09:16, 26 January 2009 blocked 208.89.102.50 (Topic ban and block violations. This is Jed Rothwell.) ...
- 10:51, 31 December 2008 blocked 69.228.220.30 (Jed Rothwell) ...
- 10:50, 31 December 2008 blocked 69.228.207.247 (Block evasion: Jed Rothwell) ...
- 20:51, 18 December 2008 blocked 68.158.255.197 (Disruptive editor who states he has no interest in improving Misplaced Pages, only in causing annoyance.) ...
- Protected pages edited
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- Added newenergytimes.com to the spam blacklist. There had been no linkspamming alleged. Not logged, decision not made by neutral admin.
- Added Jed Rothwell's domain to the spam blacklist. Not logged, decision not made by neutral admin. JzG did add a request "for transparency," but he had simultaneously blacklisted.
Applicable policies
- Pages that are protected because of content disputes should not be edited except to make changes unrelated to the dispute or to make changes for which there is clear consensus. WP:PREFER
- Administrators should not protect or unprotect a page to further their own position in a content dispute. WP:PREFER
- Deletion and the use of other admin privileges is covered by Misplaced Pages:Admin_abuse#Misuse_of_administrative_tools
- Administrators must not block users with whom they are engaged in a content dispute; instead, they should report the problem to other administrators. Administrators should also be aware of potential conflicts of interest involving pages or subject areas with which they are involved. Blocking_policy#Conflicts_of_interest
Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute
Attempt by Abd
- Request was based on use of admin tools while involved, besides argument on the merits.
- 23:57, 6 January 2009 (Please remove lenr-canr.org from the spam blacklist: are we done? would you consent to another administrator's removal of the listing?)
- 05:07, 8 January 2009 (Please remove lenr-canr.org from the spam blacklist: please make this objection moot.)
- 19:26, 12 January 2009 (lenr-canr.org: briefly, was your addition to the blacklist a legitimate use of your admin tools?)
- Request denied with (lenr-canr.org: oh go away. One locus is more than enoujgh for your silly crusade on behalf of the spamming POV-pusher)
- Again called attention to use of tools while involved.
- 23:23, 27 January 2009 (provided evidence re probable block of misindentified editor)
- 05:07, 2 February 2009 (Talk:Cold fusion: well, you might try asking me!) asked JzG to suggest a mediator.
- No response.
Attempt by Petri Krohn
Complete discussion, and Petri Krohn's initiation of it.
Attempt by Durova
Confirmation at User talk:JzG of problem with use of tools while involved. Jehochman also commented in this exchange. The complete discussion ended with Durova asking again: as I articulated before, the relative merits of either site (or lack thereof) regarding its POV or reliability is not at issue in this query; it's the division between editorial involvement and administrative action. Do you have a response regarding that separation and your interpretation as it applies to this situation?, and JzG's response did not address the question, but again asserted the site quality issue.
Community attempt
- JzG, in response to questions about his blocking of Jed Rothwell, went to ArbComm in an unusual attempt to gain immediate ArbComm support for the actions, see ]. He did not disclose his involvement. I filed a comment, and then created an evidence page, User:Abd/JzG, in response to a request that provide evidence. Ultimately, the issue of action while involved was mentioned in:
- Statement_by_Enric_Naval
- Statement_by_Abd
- Statement_by_User:GoRight
- statement_by_DGG]
- Statement_by_MastCell
- Statement_by_Phil153
- Statement_by_Durova
- Comment_by_User:Rocksanddirt_re:_admin_recusal
- Arbitrator_views_and_discussion
- mentioned by Risker
- ArbComm did not deliberate the issue of admin involvement, consensus was that the filing was premature and it was rejected. However, this case is cited to show community consensus on action while involved. Of the nine editors mentioning the involvement, one, Enric Naval, did not make any specific comment on it, but was the first to mention it; four others acknowledged or implied the standard that an involved admin not use tools where involved, but did not fault JzG. Risker's comment, for example, was that any other admin could make the issue of action while involved moot. MastCell seemed eager to support JzG's actions, suggesting "that he contact me" next time the occasion arises. Phil153 acknowledged that JzG is an involved administrator with something of a POV on cold fusion, but supported the actions as being made in good faith. Rocksanddirt similarly made a mild statement, While I agree with ABD and DGG above that JzG seems to be an 'involved' user within this subject matter, while I would like to see less admin action from JzG in these situations, I don't think he's been inappropriate with his actions. However, the other four expressed specific concern.
- JzG did not acknowledge the issue.
- After the RfAr was rejected, JzG filed Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:Abd/JzG, about the file presented to RfAr as evidence. In his nomination, he claims about the RfAr that It was a request for review of a topic-ban of a long-term tendentious editor, and it was endorsed by every arbitrator who commented, which was false (see especially the comment by Carcharoth. However, the ban and the issue of action while involved were separate issues. Several arbitrators initially commented with approval of the ban, but the consensus was that the RfAr was not needed, it was premature. The MfD shows that JzG ignored the issue of use of tools while involved. The evidence page was deleted several days ago, there is a placeholder there. The evidence on the page that was needed has been copied here in collapse boxes).
Prior RfC regarding JzG
Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/JzG2
Users certifying the basis for this dispute
{Users who tried and failed to resolve the dispute}
- involved in Jed Rothwell's ban, and in the copyvio and whitelisting discussions. Enric Naval (talk) 17:10, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
- --Abd (talk) 04:04, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Other users who endorse this statement
Response
This is a summary written by the sysop whose actions are disputed, or by other users who think that the dispute is unjustified and that the sysop's actions did not violate policy. Users who edit or endorse this summary should not edit the other summaries.
See ]. All the above complaints have been raised and dismissed previously. There is nothing further to add. Abd has complained at multiple venues about "improper" involvement at Cold fusion (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), each such complaint has been dismissed. This is just forum shopping.
What it boils down to is this: Abd has a different opinion from me on the content of cold fusion, and is determined for some unaccountable reason to facilitate inclusion of links to a domain run by Jed Rothwell, a major contributor to the article's descent form FA status to POV-tagged arbitration subject. Abd is unwilling to accept that any view but his own has validity. Abd has complained at admin noticeboards, the whitelist and blacklist pages, the Arbitration clarification request board and elsewhere. Every complaint has had the same base premise: nasty admin disagrees with me, therefore nasty admin is evil and abusive. People are allowed to disagree. What they are not allowed to do is to keep asking the same question over and over and over and over again in the desperate hope that the answer might one day change.
Fundamentally, this is a contnet dispute, and one in which I am taking very little part at the moment. One party, Abd, is obsessed with including links to a website that was abused, misrepresented, has questionable copyright, and is blacklisted at Meta with endorsement after several requests for removal all made by Abd. Abd seems unwilling to accept that. This is somehow my problem?
I have completely disengaged form Abd and his silly crusade on behalf of lenr-canr.org, but he seems unwilling to drop it. Frankly I don't have the time for this continuing foolishness. Guy (Help!) 08:29, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Users who endorse this summary:
- Guy (Help!) 08:29, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Abd should be topic banned from this whole area. The amount of time wasted is unacceptable. Spartaz 10:19, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Fully agree with G and S William M. Connolley (talk) 10:42, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Outside view
This is a summary written by users not directly involved with the dispute but who would like to add an outside view of the dispute. Users who edit or endorse this summary should not edit the other summaries.
{Add summary here, but you must use the endorsement section below to sign.}
Users who endorse this summary:
Outside view by Fritzpoll
There was a lot to read here, and one of the first things that strikes me is the dates of the edits. The latest Cold fusion/Talk:Cold fusion edit I can see was over two months ago - why has it taken two months to bring up what essentially amounts to a fairly serious accusation of abuse? The problem for the filer of this dispute is that when these issues have been brought before the community at AN/ANI/ArbCom, nothing has been done. And I mean nothing - no admin has overturned the blacklisting, no consensus has formed to cause an admin to do otherwise and no Arbcom motion or sanction exists that compels Guy's actions to be overturned. Given this, the filers will have to accept that the issue of content in this article and the listing on the blacklist are not an open issue. Debate is always welcome, but there is a risk of appearing not to be listening when people don't agree - it is a perception rather than a reality, I suspect, but perception is all that matters in a community like this.
Dispensing with the conflated issue of content/blacklists, what remains is Guy's behaviour. Most of the edits being discussed above relate to the period prior to the second RfC, the result of which was Guy acknowledging that he had faults, explained his actions, and agreed to calm down about them. What remains is again a perception - that Guy should have let some other admin handle it to avoid any accusation of bias or impropriety. What would be good, I feel, is if Guy were willing to do one of two things in cases where he feels there is an urgent need to do something like this:
- Palm it off onto another admin
- In case of an emergency, perform the action but immediately get confirmation from AN or some appropriate venue.
I don't think Guy has acted improperly in performing these actions, since the community has time and again validated them. I do think he could avoid this kind of process if he followed one of the paths above when dealing in areas that he could be accused of involvement with.
Finally, the MfD was entirely appropriate. As Abd says, the page was created as an Arbcom evidence page (essentially, I assume, to get around the word limits) and point 10 of the relevant policy indicates that such material cannot be stored within the userspace without the intention of a timely filing of a dispute resolution process. I assume from Guy's comments throughout that MfD that this was essentially the reason. I see no fault with this in particular.
I have based these comments on the evidence as presented. I am willing to revise them in light of compelling new evidence presented.
Users who endorse this summary:
- Fritzpoll (talk) 09:37, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Specifically endorsing the view that a) Guy did nothing wrong and b) bringing admin actions to ANI for review is always a good idea - especially if other editors have a vendetta against you. Spartaz 10:19, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Outside view by Spartaz
This crusade by ABD is now disrupting the project. He has created multiple instances of unnecessary and wasteful drama that sucks up unnecessary editor and administrative time and energy that should be used to improve the project. The rejected RFAR clearly showed that the arbiters simply couldn't understand what all this fuss is about. I share their confusion. This is a clear case of beating a dead horse and while I agree generally with Fritpoll's advice to Guy on how to avoid future complaints of thus type, I firmly believe that ABD needs to drop this now and stop wasting our time. I suggest that if he cannot do this he should be topic banned from anything to do with Guy, Cold Fusion and Black/White lists.
Users who endorse this summary:
Outside view by
Users who endorse this summary:
Discussion
All signed comments and talk not related to an endorsement should be directed to this page's discussion page. Discussion should not be added below. Discussion should be posted on the talk page. Threaded replies to another user's vote, endorsement, evidence, response, or comment should be posted to the talk page.