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Revision as of 16:49, 7 April 2009

Neurolysis

Voice your opinion (talk page) (65/6/2); scheduled to end 20:00, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Nomination

Neurolysis (talk · contribs) – Ladies and gentlemen, may I present for your consideration Neurolysis. Neuro is a prolific and valuable editor in many areas of Misplaced Pages. Call in now and you'll get over 25,000 edits, tons of wiki-gnoming, extensive vandal fighting, three featured lists, bot writing, NPP, ANI, AN, UAA, RPP, AFD, account creation, template work, and help desk experience. I've personally witnessed his ability to competently handle whatever strange problem comes up, be it resolving a conflict amicably or creating scripts to automate needed tasks. While Neuro is a skilled content creator, he's also one of those utter freaks that rejoices in thankless, arduous maintenance tasks - a perfect storm/deadly cocktail of adminship.

A relevant piece of Neuro's story is the personal growth he has undergone in his work here. Until the beginning of October 2008, Neuro worked under the username Asenine. In this account, Neuro made many positive contributions and had a clean block record, but like many of us found that he was developing an on-wiki persona that was not himself. He started to receive criticism over his manner towards others - especially accusations that he was not assuming good faith and being overly bureaucratic. Rather than dismissing these criticisms and blaming those that raised them, Neuro self-reflected and recognized that these evaluations carried weight. In response, he dropped this username and began Neurolysis, in which he addressed the previous concerns and concentrated on becoming a valuable and courteous editor. That is the editor that I'm presenting for your consideration now. (Neuro's account of these events is here.) FlyingToaster 19:16, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:

I accept, and would like to thank FlyingToaster for the kind words. If I may, I will say a little bit here.

My last RfA was not easy to endure for me. It meant embracing that I had been acting in a way which I do and even then did resent. I guess User:Neurolysis/Apology says most of it, but the gist of it is that I am sincerely sorry for all of the wrongs which I committed, all the mistakes I made, and the malicious things I did. I regret ever doing them, and apologise to anyone who was offended by my actions whilst operating under that handle. I am, however, glad that I had a chance to go through the RfA process that second time - it gave me a strong sense of guilt for my actions, and most importantly a will to actively change my ways and rectify the severe issues listed therein. My name change was a quick decision to get away from something which I by now so resented, and attempt to rectify them whilst starting afresh. I did tell a few people who I was at the time, but I did not publicly admit that the two accounts were indeed one and the same until December of last year. My motivation behind changing username was that I hoped that I could build enough of a base to demonstrate that I was sincere and serious about changing my ways. I hope that my actions indicate that I have changed for the better, and that six months is enough time to demonstrate such a change. — neuro 19:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Misplaced Pages as an administrator. It is recommended that you answer these optional questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What administrative work do you intend to take part in?

A: Mostly blocking inappropriate usernames at WP:UAA, deleting blatantly inappropriate pages at WP:CSD, closing discussions which demonstrate an obvious consensus for a particular action (say, SNOW deletes and keeps after 2/3 days) at WP:AFD, issuing rollback to trustworthy users who have interest in the tool at WP:PERM, and generally helping out at WP:AN, and WP:AN/I. One area I would almost certainly stay well away from would be WP:RFPP, or at least I would stay away from it until I felt confident working there. I guess the best way to answer this question is simply by saying "a bit of everything". I have a habit of enjoying working at certain areas for periods of time, and then stopping there and going somewhere else for a while, and then returning later — it helps keep my work here enjoyable, refreshing, and generally rewarding; not least in that it broadens my knowledge in areas which I might not regularly visit or contribute to otherwise. For a few months now I have been doing new image patrol with the bots. If given the bit, I plan to work deleting images which need to be deleted, but not deleting those which I can fix myself. I would stay away from blocking users until I felt comfortable doing so, which could be a little or a long time — this goes for all but blatantly disruptive users, who I would have no problem issuing blocks to if necessary. I would also help out users requesting {{adminhelp}}.

2. What are your best contributions to Misplaced Pages, and why?

A: Define 'contributions', really. If you mean article work and content creation, I particularly enjoyed and am proud of my work on featured lists, I have three - Hughes Medal, Gabor Medal, Davy Medal, and a few more coming up soon. For a long time I stayed out of content creation in general — mostly because I enjoyed and enjoy repetitive maintenance work, and didn't see the need to venture into other areas. However, after a while I found that I was doing a lot of maintenance work on mainspace articles, which gradually got me into wanting to work on content. After Ironholds prodded me about whether I wished to work alongside him getting some articles to featured list status, I realised that my love for technical jobs and mindlessly repetitive tasks could equate to content work with lists and tables. Aside from mainspace work, some of my best contributions have came about through helping out at WP:HD, WP:NCHP, and WP:RD/C (although I should probably contribute to those more often -- I have not been very active at them as of late). I also enjoy mindless technical jobs, and perform them a good bit (although more often than not for my own leisure, I do love a good puzzler).

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: I tend to disengage from situations before anything I would consider to be reminiscent of a 'conflict' occurs, and the same for stress, really. If I get stressed, I go and get a coffee, listen to some music, and generally check that I am in a good state of mind and make sure I am calm before proceeding. One of the benefits of an online encyclopaedia like Misplaced Pages is that if I am getting worked up or a little annoyed, I don't have to stick around. I can go and take a break whenever I like, since we are all volunteers -- that is, I see absolutely no need to get in a destructive conflict about things here, because unlike in a real world situation where it is very easy to get drawn into a dispute and not want to leave it until you have demonstrated all of your points and your opponent has conceded that they were wrong, Misplaced Pages is accessible through the medium of the internet — and there is plenty for me to go and do to take my mind off of the issue or issues at hand. If I were to get into a conflict with someone about my edits, I would discuss it with them first before continuing further, and if that avenue proved to be unsuccessful I would re-evaluate the situation, more than likely getting a second opinion from another user that I trust to tell me what they actually think about the situation at hand as opposed to merely what I am wanting to hear. If a group of users were to tell me that I was in the wrong, I would concede that such a thing was so and proceed to move on.

Optional Q. from Protonk (talk)

4 Why did you come back? This is open ended, so you can feel free to answer in whatever manner makes you feel comfortable. I also want to make clear that I don't mean this in the snarky "Why did you flare out just to reappear" sense. I mean literally what brought you back to the project? Do you think, in retrospect, that your leaving was permanent (at the time)? That sort of thing.

A: I rejoined only a few hours after my departure. I think there was one point at which the leaving was permanent, but I think that point was short lived. Being told by an overwhelming majority that I was what I so resented at first had the effect of being particularly upsetting. It is still upsetting to remember what I was like. It also, however, kicked some sense into me. After a few hours I felt I could turn myself around, stop acting the way I did, and I did not feel that I would lapse into old habits again. As such, I felt no need to stay away. My retirement was not so well thought out, not least in the fact that it only existed for an incredibly short period of time.

Optional questions from Dylan (chat, work, ping, sign)

5. What is the difference between a block and a ban? In your own words, please, no cut-and-pasting.

A. A block is a technical restraint on editing, whether it be on an account, an individual IP, or a range IP (rangeblock). A ban is a broader term — if we are talking about a straight out ban, a ban is a block which is not technically enforced (although it is issued in conjunction with a block). A ban also straight out allows reversions of all of a banned users contributions which were made whilst they were banned. A banned user is someone whose contributions are straight out considered to be unwanted, whereas a block is a preventative measure (it does not imply good or bad faith). A topic ban is something slightly different, that is, there is no technical restraint placed on the editor, there is, however, a disallowance to edit in a particular manner, at a particular place, or in a particular scenario.

6. This is normally Xeno's RfA question, but I like it too. As an administrator, you will come across some extremely vulgar language and often come under attack for your actions. You will most likely have to deal with some fairly troublesome users. The users you block will sometimes ask to be unblocked. Please review the very NSFW scenario outlined at User:Xeno/RFAQ and describe how you would respond to the IP's request to be unblocked.

A. IP editors are, in general, not blocked indefinitely, so blocking the user "for life" is pretty much out of the question. I think unblocking after such a spree would not only be incorrect (there is a level of AGF'ing I am willing to do, but that was pretty blatant vandalism, and personal attacks), but also unnecessary. If the user has truly learnt from and understood why their actions were wrong, then hopefully they will also understand why the block was imposed. We have a lot of IPs and users that use WP:BROTHER sort of remarks to try and get around sockpuppetry, and this is somewhat similar. The user is saying one thing, whilst they have been actively demonstrating the other. In this case, I would discuss the issue with another administrator, and see what we both thought. That might be seen as sitting on the fence, but these questions are here to ask me what I would do, not what people want to hear. I realise this might need some elaboration, if it does, please just ask away. :)

7. How do you feel that you have improved since your last RfA?

A. In just about every way, I hope. Back then I acted in a fashion which I realise was unacceptable, and unjustifiable. I guess my main improvement has been in my attitude. I do my best to assume good faith, help people out, and generally I have tried to turn my back on my previous actions. If we want to talk content, see Q2. I was sorely lacking in article work last time around (although that wasn't really brought up due to the fact that there were more serious issues), but this time I have three FLs. Admittedly FLs aren't as highly thought of as FAs, but I enjoy doing them, and they are good, solid mainspace work.

Additional questions from Jennavecia

8a. What is your view of the current BLP situation? Do you believe there is a problem or do you believe that we are doing a sufficient job in maintaining our BLPs and protecting the subjects of them? If the former, please explain how significant you feel the problem is.

A: I believe there is a problem, yes. That said, I don't really know what sort of thing you want me to comment on here. I've been writing answers and then looking back at the question and realising it wasn't really what you said at all. Assuming you didn't want as much of a short answer to this as I have provided, could you rephrase?

8b. What is your stance on each of the following for BLPs?

1. Flagged revisions

2. Flagged protection and patrolled revisions

3. Semi-protection (liberal use or protection for all)

A: I don't (and didn't) support the trial of FlaggedRevs when it came around. I believe any sort of straight out blanket flagging or semi-protection for all BLPs may be over the top. It is my belief that if we wish to stop BLP issues in their tracks, we must influence a change in editing, not only a change in the software. IP editors are not the only ones causing issues with BLPs, and whilst I concur that Flagged Revisions or semi-protection would no doubt have an effect, I feel that the positives would fail to negate the negatives if we were to implement FlaggedRevs on BLPs — that is, I feel they undermine our ethos, and would need a demonstration that they had a significant effect before supporting them, and I don't believe that semi-protection should be applied in such a liberal way. Not least, I also oppose them because I believe that flagged protection and patrolled revisions would be the best way to go about combating this sort of problem in a fashion which still conforms to our core values. FP/PR promotes more editing, not less, and it also promotes review of those edits as opposed to straight out limitation. So, in summary:

1. No

2. Yes

3.

• Global protection for BLPs? No.
• More liberal use? Yes.

8c. For BLP AFDs, closing as "no consensus", do you believe it is better to default to keep or default to delete? Why?

A: I've been sitting here wondering how to answer this, if it is okay with you, could I have a day or so to think it over?

Additional questions from Backslash Forwardslash

9. Would you speedy delete an article with an {{underconstruction}} tag?

A: That would depend. If the article was blatantly unwanted (such as an attack page), I would not hesitate to delete it. If the article was simply not asserting notability, I would hold off. I guess {{underconstruction}} just says 'I am working on this', but that tends to not mean anything for pages with no salvageable content whatsoever.

General comments

• Requests for adminship/Asenine
• Requests for adminship/Asenine 2

• Links for Neurolysis: Neurolysis (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)
• Edit summary usage for Neurolysis can be found here.
• Promote Neurolysis

Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/Neurolysis before commenting.

Discussion

• For those that prefer them:
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~ ωαdεstεr16_«talk 12:01, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Support

1. Support as nom. FlyingToaster 20:00, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
2. Had it watchlisted for some reason support (deja vu!) - clueful editor. –xeno (talk) 20:01, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
3. Would-have-nominated-Support. Per Xeno ;-) SoWhy 20:14, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
4. Does good work, no reason to believe he'd abuse the tools. I must say that I'm unpersuaded by the concerns in the oppose section thus far. –Juliancolton |  20:17, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

   My intention wasn't to persuade anybody, just letting you know where I stand.  iMatthew :  Chat  20:19, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

   I know, but the purpose of a rationale is to let others know your thoughts. Otherwise it'd be a straight vote. –Juliancolton |  20:20, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

   Hmm, perhaps I misunderstood at first. Sorry, nevermind. ;)  iMatthew :  Chat  20:21, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

5. Support I believe the nomination statement was sincere. And while I am not a fan of extracting apologies, I think it was probably necessary. I think Neuro/Asenine will be a net positive as an admin. Protonk (talk) 20:25, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
6. Support Yup, been around the block, as it were, i see no reason the mop will cause brain fail. --GedUK  20:26, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
7. Support on the condition he stops making me hip-hop mixtapes, rapping on WP and doesn't shave HAGGER? into my head while I sleep. Ironholds (talk) 20:27, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

   As for the latter: Mmmhh...beans *off to buy a shaver* SoWhy 20:35, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

   Have I coined WP:SHAVE?. WilliamH (talk) 09:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

   One might want to create that page as something similar to WP:WTHN: "The fact that they will not shave HAGGER? into someone's head while they sleep is a reason to support a user running for adminship..." SoWhy 09:38, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

8. Support I trust this user not to abuse the tools and I hate IRC DRAMA. Hipocrite (talk) 20:36, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

   Hopefully the new op guidelines will go some way to combat drama on IRC, Martin drafted them a few days ago. — neuro 20:39, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

9. per Ironholds. Keegan 20:37, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
10. I opposed Neurolysis' last RfA based on some behavioral concerns. However, in the time since that RfA I have kept an eye on him, and I think he's done a great job in improving himself since then. He experienced with policy, is friendly, gives good input and does good work wherever he participates, and is a helpful editor overall. I am pleased to support this nomination after opposing the last one. Acalamari 20:39, 6 April 2009
11. Support? Hell yeah! Inferno :  Chat  20:42, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
12. A very approachable and helpful user, Neuro will do well with the tools.  GARDEN  20:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
13. Support Neurolysis has been very active in a wide range of areas across Misplaced Pages and is very trustworthy. In my opinion, he has improved greatly in the last six months since his last RfA and would be very helpful as an administrator. GT5162 20:46, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
14. Support I can work with him. MBisanz 20:50, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
15. Support I like what I've seen, & I think he'll be okay (okay meaning not abusing the tools). hmwithτ 21:01, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
16. Support I've seen neurolysis around, and all indications are that he'll be a great admin. I actually thought he was an admin already. Best of luck. Timmeh! 21:06, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
17. Support. Been waiting for this one. Solid, personable, and he cares. I'll be happy to look at Wisdom's diffs or anyone else's diffs, but it will have to be pretty bad for me to switch teams. - Dan Dank55 (push to talk) 21:07, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
18. Support, and Support strongly I might add. While his tremendous efforts to get me clued in and up to speed during my fist days at WP may be a personal feeling, rather than objective evidence, I can also state with clear conscience that Neurolysis does have a clue, will benefit the community, and the tools would only further enhance his ability to maintain, sort, and protect the project. (sorry for the run on sentence - I got carried away) — Ched :  ?  21:08, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
19. Oppose Too many administrators currently. No. Oppose - I view self-noms as prima facie evidence of power hunger. No! Hello, I would like to place an order... oh sorry, wrong queue. NO!!! Wait, I got it! Very strong support - I've seen Neuro around, and have seen nothing but good from him. A hard worker, civil, kind and helpful; if not him, then who? --Dylan (chat, work, ping, sign) 21:19, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

    The sarcasm isn't really constructive. Just sayin'. Townlake (talk) 21:30, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

    Just joking around with regards to the references. --Dylan (chat, work, ping, sign) 21:54, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

20. Yarr! Neuro is an excellent editor, polite, mature, and clued-up. Excellent administrator candidate, I keep having to remind myself that he isn't one. ~ mazca 21:21, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
21. Support Give him the tools already! Hersfold 21:23, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
22. Support Neurolysis is a tremendous contributor to the community who would clearly use the tools responsibly. Took all my advice to heart in the editor review he recently conducted, even the stuff he could have bristled at. Neurolysis seemingly always defaults to assuming good faith absent a good reason to believe otherwise. I'm proud and happy to support. Townlake (talk) 21:27, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
23. Support No bad interactions, only good ones. America69 (talk) 21:28, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
24. Support About time. Whatever his past, neuro is a clued in editor who usually (thankfully not always!) makes sense. With all the odd jobs he's been doing around wikipedia he's already a janitor - about time someone handed him a mop! --RegentsPark (My narrowboat) 21:30, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
25. Meh Mr.Z-man 21:35, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
26. Strong support --Giants27 /C 21:49, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
27. Support No problems here. Good luck! Pastor Theo (talk) 22:02, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
28. Support You've been around and that's what counts. —Admiral Norton 22:17, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
29. Support Definitely trustworthy. rootology (C)(T) 22:25, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
30. Support May the force be with you, young Jedi. ^_^. Meetare Shappy 22:26, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
31. Strong support, will make the kind of administrator of which we really need more. J Milburn (talk) 22:27, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
32. Support — Jake Wartenberg 22:40, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
33. Support -download | sign! 22:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
34. Support: Per above. South Bay (talk) 22:47, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
35. Strong Support Been expecting this rfa for awhile - would have nominated you myself eventually. Neurolysis has much experience in many aspects of the project, a high level of approachability, and will definitely not abuse sysop rights. - Fastily (talk) 22:57, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
36. Support Neuro has always been able and willing to help me when I've had problems and has always been calm during a crisis. I think he would make a great administrator. Soap /_{Contributions} 23:11, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
37. Support Been waiting for this. Sumoeagle179 (talk) 23:17, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
38. Support --Xavexgoem (talk) 23:23, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
39. Aye - probably the RfA that I've had to think the least about (ooh, must've been about five seconds) recently. Black Kite 23:24, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
40. Duh - won't abuse the tools. Donnez le mop, toute de suite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by roux (talk • contribs)
41. Secret 23:58, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
42. Support Can be trusted with the bit. --Patar knight - /_{contributions} 00:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
43. Support. I am amazed by how much growth Neurolysis has shown from his past as a rather disagreeable character to someone with whom it is a pleasure to work with. I am certain that Neurolysis will make an excellent admin. bibliomaniac15 00:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
44. Too tallToo young Majorly talk 00:41, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
45. I've seen this request coming for quite some time now. There was a time when I had already thought Neuro to be an administrator, and then I had happened upon his logs and noticed he wasn't. I wondered, "why? He'd be a wonderful admin." I have seen Neuro's name around a lot lately and have generally had a positive impression of him — he is always willing to assume good faith when there isn't especially strong evidence of bad faith, and he admits and learns from his past mistakes. He is very active in a lot of administrator-heavy areas of the project, and is very thoughtful and patient when it comes to dealing with newcomers who don't understand Misplaced Pages's processes quite yet. We need more administrators with these traits, and we need more highly active admins. That said, I feel it would be against Neuro's wishes for somebody to not be honest and forth-right with him, and I will not lie; I have at times been concerned by Neuro's handling of certain situations. There are times when Neuro makes judgmental mistakes (and he knows this, he's not afraid of owning up to his mistakes), and on occasion I find he is a tad too willing to give obviously bad-faith editors more chances than they should have. I'm not suggesting that he AGF less often, but I just wanted to offer a reminder that sometimes, rules can be ignored if it's better to do so. I also took the liberty to check his prior RfA and found that there were significant concerns at the time, just around six months ago. But simply looking at his contributions as of late, it is obvious he has come a long way since that time. He has matured a great deal ever since he first came here, and those issues are pretty much a faded memory now. It is obvious that Neuro has been working to become an administrator for some time now (not that it was his only Misplaced Pages goal, but it is still evident that Neuro wanted to be somebody others would turn to for help) and I cannot find any reason why not to give the mop to somebody who is honest, considerate, thoughtful, and open-minded. In short, I trust Neurolysis fully. Master&Expert (Talk) 00:43, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
46. Support I've had good interactions with this user and I think he'll be a good admin. Camw (talk) 00:47, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
47. My impression of neuro has always been that he is an extremely civil and respectful editor; just about every interaction I've had with him has involved neuro keeping everyone civil (I have sometimes been on the receiving end of that). I don't know anything about neuro's past, before I was a Wikipedian, but the neuro of the present certainly commands my respect. rʨanaɢ /_contribs 00:50, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
48. Support No concerns. Wronkiew (talk) 00:52, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
49. Weak Support. Not the perfect history, but a very improved Wikipedian. Useight (talk) 01:00, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
50. Support Great editor, very helpful. Per all the above. LITTLEMOUNTAIN5  01:08, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
51. Support Through my lengthy interactions with Neuro through anti-vandalism, FPC, and other places, I have always had good experiences. Spencer 01:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
52. Support- I don't see any reason to deny this user the mop. Neuro has always struck me as level-headed and intelligent, and will probably be responsible with the tools. Reyk _YO! 01:23, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
53. Support miranda 02:08, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
54. Support. I wondered a few days why you hadn't run for adminship. Best of luck, Malinaccier (talk) 02:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
55. Support - I've seen good work from this user and believe he would make a fine and trustworthy administrator. Kafka Liz (talk) 02:55, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
56. Support- it's about friggin' time. Neuro is quite prolific and I've had positive interactions with him. Valley2city 02:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
57. Support No reason not to. Seen good stuff so far.  Marlith (Talk)  03:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
58. Strong support. He's not an admin? Wizardman 04:25, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
59. Support thought he was an admin, a crat, a CU, an oversiter, an ArbCom member, a Steward, a Founder, etc, already. Ottava Rima (talk) 04:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
60. Support Keep up the good work. Steven Walling (talk) 05:39, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
61. Support Skinny87 (talk) 05:41, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
62. Support Has clue, will travel. WilliamH (talk) 09:26, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
63. Support - I don't generally get involved in these Admin elections (mostly because I just don't care about Admins), but I've seen some of his anti-vandalism work and I was impressed enough to have to speak up. He has my support for his Admin bid. Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:41, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
64. Support Any off-wiki behaviour, unless it is atrocious, doesn't bother me. Neuro is a responsible editor and, as an administrator, would act with probity. ∗ \ / (⁂) 11:58, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
65. Yes - honestly per Wizardman, also per WilliamH. —Ed 17 13:12, 7 April 2009 (UTC)