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Sathya Sai Baba article

Sathya Sai Baba is a living person, who lives in a small city called "Puttaparthi", in South India, state of Andhra Pradesh. Thousands of people gather everyday to see him, in a place called Sai Kulwant Hall, inside a complex called "Prasanthi Nilayam", where Sai Baba's residence is located. This people believe he is a saint.

On the other hand, there is a group of people who believes he is a criminal.

So, we have two radically opposite points-of-view.

The article in Misplaced Pages is being used by the group with the "anti-Baba" point-of-view to do theirs propaganda. This group is engaged in a strong effort to avoid the article to be a truly representative of NPOV.

Currently, the article suffers from:
- lack of NPOV
- offends Basic Human Dignity
- suffers from Information Supression

Link to the article: http://en.wikipedia.org/Sathya_Sai_Baba

In the brief description of the case, above, I myself have assumed a neutral point-of-view.

Below, a link to my first comment about the article. There, I write with my own POV feelings, but using NPOV arguments, so neutral editors could follow and, with common sense, agree: http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Sathya_Sai_Baba#What_if_Sai_Baba_is_really_an_Avatar.3F

But, after that, I found many unpleasant things:
- trying to edit results in "removal of large-scale vandalism", and the edit vanishes from the history; (thus, the history itself is biased)
- there is an editor, "White adept", acting as policeman to maintain biased, not-NPOV status quo;
- there is another user, "Andries", faking a positive POV; (thus, you are mislead)
- their combined actions drive anybody who arrives to read all negative-POV references;
- also, they managed a pack of ready-made arguments that classifies the huge amount of positive-POV references as "not reliable";
- making, in this way, extremely difficult, if not impossible, to restore or improve the article's quality.

This article constitutes a very serious issue for Misplaced Pages itself. Millions of people around the world support Sai Baba's efforts (six million, in the negative-POV estimate; from 50 to 100 millions, in the positive-POV estimate). The current article is an offense not only to Sai Baba himslef, but also to all of them.

Thank you.

Moved from your userpage

I tried to use the mediation window but couldn't. My concern is simply that the article "Pro Se Litigation in the United States" is missing essential information. Most particularly the Rules of Conduct for U.S. Judges and its changes in March 2009 that affect pro se litigants. This information has been deleted and should be available to the public

The current code of conduct for United States Judges requires "A judge should accord to every person who is legally interested in a proceeding, or the person's lawyer full right to be heard according to law". On March 17, 2009, a new code, going into effect on July 1, 2009, was announced requiring "A judge should accord to every person who has a legal interest in a proceeding, and that person’s lawyer, the full right to be heard according to law." The wording was changed from a person "or" their lawyer to a person "and" their lawyer.

DA poll

Ryan, a question: would it be worth adding a reinforcement notice somewhere around the top of the date autoformatting "Responses" section to remind people that the question is about the principle of autoformatting? There are a fair number of responses that are mixing linked dates and autoformatting as one and the same, which may skew the results. Thoughts? --Ckatz_spy 22:02, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I've been thinking about this all day as well - I think it's important that voters are clear what they are voting for. I've gone ahead and added a notice to the top of the responses section. Hopefully that will make things as clear as possible. Ryan Postlethwaite 22:40, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

i've added a suggestion here that perhaps someone should create an editnotice to clarify the point - it might help. Sssoul (talk) 06:26, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Possible canvassing

This also needs your attention. Ohconfucius (talk) 07:23, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

(Copied from the talk page.) --Sapphic (talk) 23:43, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

• I've had a look at this and I believe it is canvassing. I've therefore asked Sapphic not to contact any other users on their talk page for the remainder of the poll. Ryan Postlethwaite 22:23, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

No disrespect, but you're wrong here, Ryan. Maybe I violated some other policy/guideline/whatever (though if that's so, I can't find it anywhere) but WP:CANVAS applies to messages sent to people who have not already participated in a poll. I explain my actions in a lot more detail in the sub-section immediately below. So, unless you can point me at some policy I actually did violate, I'm going to just keep doing what I've been doing. Glad you're feeling better. --Sapphic (talk) 23:35, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages is not a bureaucracy. Your behavior, Sapphic, doesn’t require that everyone go “Gee, we don’t have an explicit rule to cover this new kind of disruption so let’s amend the rules.” Badgering people to change their vote in an RfC when they haven’t asked for help or clarification (or obviously voted in the wrong section or something) isn’t tolerated. Since you are A) not changing a single vote that I can tell, and B) are simply just making a pest or yourself, and C) obviously don’t respond to social pressure, and D) don’t give a damn if you’re blocked, I’ll leave it to some other poor bastard to deal with you. Greg L (talk) 01:56, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

There's no rule to cover the situation because it's not disruption. I just did what people on both sides were talking about, but everybody was too scared to do because they all apparently misunderstand both the purpose and wording of WP:CANVAS. There is no longer any question as to whether the "confused" oppose votes understand what they were voting on. They all now do, and all but one (who, much to my surprise, actually did change his vote) has clarified their position — in non-"confused" terms — on the poll page. Anyway, I proposed a way to end at least the autoformatting part of the debate, over under that "exit strategies" section. All bold. Hard to miss. Go check it out, you might be pleasantly surprised. --Sapphic (talk) 02:14, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Note to all

I'm not very well today. As weird as it sounds, I think I've drunk too much coffee and it's made me feel terrible. I'm sorry for not answering any replies on this talk - I'll get to them as soon as I can tomorrow (although I have work all day). Apologies to everyone that's commented above. Regards, Ryan Postlethwaite 22:34, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Irish coffee? :-)  HWV258  22:57, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Gut wull sun. — neuro 23:47, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Hope ya feel better when you get up. :) (you really didn't miss all that much) — Ched :  Yes?   : ©  00:13, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for all your replies guys - as it happens, it wasn't Irish coffee (but a load of espresso and energy drinks. Needless to say, I've stayed off the stuff today (sort of had to because I felt awful this morning). It was worse than a hangover! :-) Ryan Postlethwaite 22:29, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Meh. Try having a hangover and then trying to cure it with six double ristretti. You end up with a hangover and your hair trying to crawl out of your head because of the caffeine. Urg. Glad you're back. Tonywalton  22:44, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I got drunk on Friday night and still had a headache on Monday. I feel like my trials are being demeaned! :) — neuro 00:49, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

• Ryan. One of the sickest I ever got was trying to get out an order of some ammunition for an overseas order. I was in my mid-20s. At crunch time (machinery was acting up) I drank a boat load of coffee and some No-Doze tablets (caffeine) and worked through the night until sunrise. Then I got sick. Holy smokes I was sick. IMO, it’s not so much the coffee, it’s the energy drinks. Coffee contains something like over a hundred pharmacologically active alkaloids; it’s a complex brew and it’s hard to O.D. on the stuff. But when you spike yourself with a boat load of pure caffeine from energy drinks, you can make yourself feel just like you felt. Greg L (talk) 01:43, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Dunmanway "Massacre"

Hi young Ryan - check this at AE and Talk:Dunmanway Massacre. There is a tag referring to the AE at the talk page but the conclusions are unclear bar they want me to be polite and "toned down". What I want to do is propose to move Dunmanway Massacre to Dunmanway Shootings as 'massacre' is not comonly used to describe the incidents and they didn't all occur in Dunmanway. The term was invented for polemical reasons and is classic WP:OR. Could you propose the move? Sarah777 (talk) 18:24, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

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Delievered by SoxBot II (talk) at 19:39, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

James Cawley

I have tried editing James Cawley with the truth about who's money has built and funded the New Voyages project and that he was an extra in the new Star Trek movie. These are both true statements and yet he and his "followers" kept deleting my edits. So that the article makes him sound better than he is. When I posted an article of a group that truly researches the fact they re-edit my change saying Memory Alpha can not be trusted. If that is so, is anything that comes out of James mouth to be trusted. Why don't you call up Paramount and ask them what he did on the movie. Why don't you ask the people that have donated thousands upon thousands of dollars to New Voyages. Finally why don't you ask James to provide you with tax returns of the last couple of years. You will see that his "day job" is not an Elvis Impersonator.
Please help me resolve this. Actually he should not even be in the Misplaced Pages. He says he is an actor. A true actor belongs to one of the Guilds, he belongs to none. As for film producer, if I shoot a film with a video camera and it is not sold to anyone does that give me the right to call myself a producer? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.55.27.133 (talk) 22:13, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

They have done it again. Please help me resolve this situation. Your wikipedia is being over run by people who like to use only half truths. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.55.27.133 (talk) 00:49, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

At the risk of DFT, I'd point out that the user has been offered many opportunities to present reliable citations for what appear to be, at best, a negative impression of the subject of the article. So far, they appear unable or unwilling to provide support. BLP means that potentially disparaging information needs to be well-documented. - Arcayne () 01:59, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

And since they would not stop adding the same edits, the user has been reported for 3RR. - Arcayne () 04:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

PedMen

I'd love some help if you got time. :) None of the mentors are as active as they once were, & I could use a hand. You have muh more experience in the topic. hmwithτ 18:08, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi Ryan, there's a bit of an issue with one of the articles, but so far it's not like the kind of heated incidents we've seen on the related pages in the past. The question is being discussed by several editors and at this point it looks like it will be resolved by the references and consensus. Your help would certainly be welcome to keep things on the positive track. --Jack-A-Roe (talk) 22:31, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey guys - I've got one more day left at work before a bit of a break so I'll get on with it tomorrow. Hope that's ok for everyone. Ryan Postlethwaite 22:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

James Cawley

Please help me with Arcayne (cast a spell) and others. They think an interview with James Cawley is valid. While Memory Alpha who has researched multiple sources is more truthful. The basic changes I want is James Cawley was an extra on the new Star Trek movie but they keep deleting my edit. Also they do not want people to know that James Cawley did not himself spend $100,000 to build the set. Hey just go to the New Voyages website and they are always asking for money. James does not work. Maybe in the past he was an Elvis impersonator but when was the last time he was employed. Why is this so hard to believe this is the truth?173.55.27.133 (talk) 21:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

What published, reliable, and/or verifiable sources have you offered to back up your assertations? None, so far as I can see. As I've mentioned to you on the Cawley talk page, not only is Memora Alpha a wiki (and therefore not a reliable source, you've also vandalized the Cawley article there as well.

You're trying to give motives to other people that have no basis in reality. You do not know for a fact that Cawley is an extra - none of us can know that until the film comes out. The present wording is accurate - yours, while possibily true, is unsourced, which is why it gets removed. Your speculations here about SAG or pay don't mean anything - heck, for all we know, they gave him a few lines and Taft-Hartley'ed him, which makes it all a moot point - but I'm not putting that in the article, because a) it's irrelvant right now, and b)again, unsourced.

Also, you keep claiming "everyone knows" certain things... again, reliable sources? You want us to take everything you say at face value, but I'm sorry, but an anonymous person hiding behind an IP from Murietta, CA isn't exactly a great source. TheRealFennShysa (talk) 22:36, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Cooling my jets

Cooling my jets too

Ryan, I just saw your note over on Greg's talk page (I noticed my name in one of his edit comments) and although you haven't (yet?) asked me to stay away from the poll talk page, I'm going to do so anyway. The "proposed compromise" I've mentioned there is just this: we give the date autoformatting opponents everything they want (disable the DA software entirely, allow mass de-linking by script/bot/whatever) in exchange for them staying out of the development process for some replacement software. When the replacement software is ready, it would be put up for community approval/rejection. I had thought that the proposal would meet with enough approval that it could be enacted rather quickly, and although nobody on the pro-autoformatting side has voiced any complaint, people on the anti-autoformatting side are vehemently opposed to it, for reasons that honestly baffle me. Perhaps it's just because I was the one proposing it? In any event, I don't think deferring to the Wikimedia developers is a good idea. I'll stay away for at least a few days (maybe longer if it seems to improve things) and I hope you can come up with a workable solution to this mess. Good luck. --Sapphic (talk) 01:01, 9 April 2009 (UTC)