Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:00, 16 November 2005

• WP:ANI
• WP:AN/I

This page is for urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioral problems.

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• A request for adminship is open for discussion.
• Voluntary RfAs after resignation
• Allowing page movers to enable two-factor authentication
• Rewriting the guideline Misplaced Pages:Please do not bite the newcomers
• Should comments made using LLMs or chatbots be discounted or even removed?

Rootkit

Can an admin please attend to Rootkit which either needs to be a redirect to Root kit or, according to the consensus, Root kit needs moving to rootkit. At the moment there is a speedy deletion on Rootkit, and a note rather than a redirect, which while it would allow a non admin to sort out the problem, isn't of any use to the readers who will come along looking for Rootkit (as Root kit is a mistake) and get this horrendous page, worse than a double redirect, SqueakBox 16:17, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Radiojon is now revert moving the live talk page Talk:Rootkit to Talk:Rootkit/archive here and

• I hope you don't mind, I fixed your typo--[[User:Hello fromSPACE| 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Do something about it, please

Rex071404 (talk · contribs), it's a persistant troll, that seems to be testing the system to see how far it can push without being blocked, it's already required an article to be locked to protect it from him--IKnowWho 00:02, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

• At least it's being mature about it--IKnowWho 00:15, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm thinking no. If whoever is behind has a genuine complaint, RFC is that-a-way.Geni 00:48, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

He has had a previous RFAr agains him, though, for the same problem... Titoxd 00:04, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Return of the stupid vandalbot

I want to inform you guys that the "SUPER COOL" vandalbot has been messing with the sandbox! (preceding unsigned comment by 63.19.157.34 (talk • contribs) )

• Curps immedately is on the case. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 20:49, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Curps forgot about it, so someone block his IP range for a looooooooong time!!!!

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.19.157.34 (talk • contribs)

Well, at least he's only interested in the sandbox for now. A vandal-bot attacking the sandbox is much better than a vandal-bot attacking more important pages. --Ixfd64 22:16, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

He will tomorrow unless you block his IP range. In the other attack, he started with the sandbox and then went on to more important pages the next day.

• Is it just me or is 63.19.157.34 (talk · contribs) acting suspiciously? Nearly all its edits are to the sandbox, but it seems to know a lot about IP ranges, blocking, ANI etc. Radiant_>|< 01:30, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Yuber2

Clarification/action requested regarding Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Yuber. Yuber (talk · contribs) engages in WP:EW in Anti-Arabism: inserts suspicious and provocative image and inflammatory POV quotes. . ←Humus sapiens←ну? 22:29, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

The above is a false accusation. The quotes were here long before I arrived at Misplaced Pages, and all I have done is add a well-sourced image that shows anti-Arab graffiti written by Israeli settlers in the Palestinian city of Hebron. Yuber 22:56, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Found on a suspicious (not my words) website doesn't mean "well-sourced". See WP:V. ←Humus sapiens←ну? 02:02, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

To any admins reading this. These two BOTH push POV. In this context it is rank hypocracy for Yuber to be singled out over his conduct on this article. You need to see the context before making a call on this one. Unbehagen 13:31, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Another vandalbot on sandbox

Now it's "Deny Aleshia".

:P I'm a vandalbot, am I? Heh, well, whatever. But why is your "Tosha Trash" content more worthy than "Deny Aleshia."? Explain. :) 24.224.153.40 02:25, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

It is because you are extremely persistent, and that will not be allowed on the sandbox!63.19.216.158 02:28, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Why not? The sandbox is for experimenting and I'm.. get this -- experimenting. I wish Sandbot would come back, he was fun to experiment with. :'( <-- sad 24.224.153.40 02:30, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

In fact, my content is more friendly than your "Ashley Asshole" content. Deny Aleshia demands placement. >:( 24.224.153.40 02:34, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Resolved

Block question

Would it be beyond bounds to block a user indef for repeated uploading of images marked fair use with no source? Said user has been on wikipedia since November 2004, told repeatedly to list with a source, and yet continues to upload no sourced fair use images, on the order of more than 100 images since coming here. User in question is Kevinsnow  ALKIVAR™ 05:35, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Indefinitely? Yeah, that would be beyond bounds. I'd give another three warnings and then just delete any further images he posts without a license on sight; but then, that's proabably just me. Titoxd 05:39, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Thats basically what I've been doing. Just frustrated at going through a long backlog of his images.  ALKIVAR™ 05:49, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I think following the wikipedia disspute resolution process would be logical in this case.Geni 05:45, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Well I'll do that although I dont think that will get a result, as comments posted to his talk page remain unanswered.  ALKIVAR™ 05:49, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

• Indefinite blocking surely is out of bounds, but I don't see why short blocks for something which is clearly a violation of policy (of which he was repeatedly informed) should be any problem. I'd support a 24 hour block, when he repeats when unblocked increase the length to 48, etc. And keep telling what he should be doing to fix things. - Mgm| 10:35, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

• There are precidents for indef blocks (not perma-blocks) by admins in such instances. If a user is continuously engaged in a problematic action -e.g. mass creating non-vandalism but speediable articles, or, in the instance I recall, uploading massive amounts of orphan images with no obvious use. And if the editor is unresponsive to questions or requests to desist. I've seen admins block indef, not as a punishment but 'to get their attention', with a clear message on the user page that the block will be immediately lifted if the user either promises to desist, OR enters into a dialogue about the appropriateness of his actions. Such blocks do not seem to be policy, but they seem useful and rational - when we are met with continued problematic behaviour and a refusal to discuss (DR is pointless with a silent party). Doc 11:31, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Thus spake Jimbo. Also, examine the (seemingly similar) case of User:Scottfisher. android79 12:23, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Deletion closure question

A couple of users have come to me saying that my decisions on three Articles For Deletion debates were a little off-base. The debates in question are Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/The Diary, Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Fisker, and Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Naming Substituted Benzene Isomers. I would like opinions from other administrators regarding this matter. Thank you.  Denelson83  07:13, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

• Well, you are the closer of the debate, and if you choose to stand by your decision anyone protesting should bring it to WP:DRV. After looking a bit superficially at the three I would have deleted The Diary, simply because all the keep votes appear to be anonymously made. The two others look like good and reasonable calls though, on Fisker new info arose on the AFD debate which you acknowledged, on Naming Substituted Benzene Isomers there is 2d-1r so calling it a redirect is certainly within reasonable bounds. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:20, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
  • There's not pressure form me for these decisions to be reversed, just discussed. For my benefit as much as anything. Although I also notice notice now that the talk pages are empty, too.
    brenneman 07:26, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
    • I'd say it's a good call on all three of them. The Fisker deletion debate seems to have consensus for delete, but the rewritten version doesn't resemble (and is far better than) the stub that was nominated, so this was a good catch for the cleaner-upper. Radiant_>|< 12:46, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
    • I'll second that. Diary- consensus delete (don't count the socks), Fisker- good catch on a cleanup, and NSBI- 66% (consensus, though it's borderline) delete. Good work.--Scïmïłar 14:51, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
      • On Fisker, would extending the discussion or pinging the participants not have been a bit safer? (I've changed the title of this section as this was never a dispute per say. We should be able to talk about this stuff without it being a dispute.)
        brenneman 01:00, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Deletion dispute: "So called Moldovan language" and romanian

As recommended by Jtkiefer in ]

I would like in the most polite manner to have a look on the Moldovan_language where I have added some edits on the talk page ]

The truth is that "Moldovan" doesn't exist. It's about romanian with a different name. The fact is that is identical with romanian. Romanian is a latin language like french, italian, spanish, portuguese. The Soviet propaganda and the russians experts since 1812 tried to make a difference on political reasons. Even internationally at the most official level is recognized that "so called moldovan" is nothing else but romanian. ] Please feel free to express your opinion!  Bonaparte  talk & contribs

PS. Somebody is still deleting an important section of the page; the deleted section demonstrates the identity between "so called Moldovan" and romanian. I've seen that once or twice you have reverted these edits, maybe you could do that again and if the problem persists what can be done?

IheartWWF and Emico

(This has been moved from WP:AN by LBMixPro)

This user above likes to personally attack Lbmixpro and myself just for telling him to stop trying to insult others intelligence. Here are some examples of his bad deeds:

1. His signature - First off his signature is offensive. His signiture is :

IheartWWF.

2. First Conflict - He first insults Lbmixpro as an anon user on the talk page of the Iglesia ni Cristo article claiming of his low intelligance level and his knowledge of nothing. Which just isn't true. He is a great and respected user.

3. My response to this conflict - His IP address is 168.243.84.113. See his talk page for the message I left the IP address. I got involved here because Lbmixpro was gaining stress because of him and I was trying to help out a bit.

4. Second Conflict with Lbmixpro and me - Now I'm no genoius genious but it looks like the anon user above created the IheartWWF account also. He left a very rude message to Lbmixpro on his talk page.

I am just now reporting this to someone. He obviously created this account just to vandalize and/or make personal attacks to other users. IheartWWf and 168.243.84.113 should both have a permanent block. There is no room on Misplaced Pages for a person that just likes to make a fuss. Please can anyone do anything about this? User:SWD316 I also just recently discovered his editing to the Iglesia ni Cristo as another anon, 213.55.89.8. He should also be blocked as well.

I feel that this has a connection to User:Emico, who has been banned from editing the Iglesia ni Cristo until August 2006 as per ruling by the ArbCom. Although this user's attitude is more aggressive and defiant than Emico's, his edit pattern is very similar. If this is the same person, I belive he has returned the the same editing attitude as he had when he first joined Misplaced Pages. I have sent notifications to User:TheoClarke, who has been the sysop covering the issues at the article, as well as posted my feelings at WP:EA's stress page, which brought SWD316 into the situation. I suggest those interested in this see Talk:Iglesia ni Cristo which documents the argument and potential edit-war we're facing. Until I can prove this isn't Emico or someone acting for him, I cannot RFC him. I suggest the sysops pay close attention to this article, and possibly issue a WP:RFAr/AER. Theo only posts to WP on a sporatic basis. --LBMixPro 08:52, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

TheoClarke just returned from a long wiki-break, and is now limiting his level of contribution. It's entirely possible he won't have time to handle the situation, which is unfortunate, as he's a first-rate sysop.--Scïmïłar 17:54, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Blocking of third party

It appears that Ansbachdragoner may have been blocked accidentally. I wonder if anyone with better knowledge of IP addresses, could look into it. Best,--Wiglaf 11:21, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Die Lustige Witwe again

Further removal of cleanup tag from Die Lustige Witwe. Also removal of "confusing" tag from a secton tehreon, which includes, among other problem text, "a 1958 Glocken Verlag LTD, London". Andy Mabbett 12:09, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

• Is there any reason you can't perform the cleanup such that the cleanup tag would no longer be necessary? android79 12:19, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes. Andy Mabbett 12:20, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
    • And the reason is...? android79 12:25, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
      • I'm not sufficiently familiar with either the technology required to do so, nor the subject. Is this really the place to discuss such matters, though? Andy Mabbett 12:56, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
        • No, the appropriate place to talk about this is Talk:Die Lustige Witwe, but you brought the matter here in the first place. Unfortunately, your behavior there is just as baffling as it is here. android79 13:36, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

User: Blasphemous

User: Blasphemous was blocked a long time ago for a) using an offensive username and b) for being allegedly a sock puppet of a User Noah Peters who in turn had several Arb Comm cases for things I do not remember. I was the last one admin involved in blocking that particular sock puppet.

I initially protected the talk page documenting this, then blanked it at a "noahp"'s request and protected it again. I keep though getting increasingly annoying emails by said "noahp" who wants me to unprotect the (now blanked) talk page. I do not want to enter a dialogue as I prefer to keep my email address private, but I am also rather clueless now just what would be the rigt thing to do - and I am nowadays so infrequent on WIkipedia that I have no time (or even starting point) to figure what polices might apply. My bottomline is that the user Blasphemous was banned for good and his talk+user page should either be deleted (dt offensive username) quite irrespective of any going-ons of Noah Peters and sockpuppetry or not, but this might be a wrong understanding. Any advise by fellow admin's is welcome. Refdoc 15:33, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

• Considering both Noah Peters (talk · contribs) and Blasphemous (talk · contribs) are permablocked, I'd say add him to your spamfilter and keep the userpage as is (or delete and protect, which would have roughly the same effect). Radiant_>|< 16:32, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

• • I just wanted to note that I added template:indefblockeduser to both users' pages while they were protected since that's standard policy for users who have been indef. blocked. Jtkiefer ----- 23:57, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

TreyHollandIsBack

TreyHollandIsBack (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), previously as TreyHolland (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), has being vandalising Spanish Language and other articles. I made a short block on it, but my question is: Is it ok to indefinitely block a sockpuppet user that has been created only for the porpoise of vandalism? I think it is, but wanted to hear some opinions before acting. Mariano(t/c) 16:30, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

• Yup. Go for it. android79 16:32, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
• Absolutely. Using a sock to evade a block is 3vil. Radiant_>|< 16:35, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Mariano(t/c) 16:40, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

• By the way what's with the porpoise? :) Radiant_>|< 16:47, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Those porpoises, they're always vandalizing! :-) android79 17:01, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Dammed this cetaceans; it's not the first time, they are always getting on my way! They look all nice and funny, but they are actually blood-thirsty creatures. Be aware, you are warned. Mariano(t/c) 17:35, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Re: Changing my username

I am editing using the name Samivel. I would like to block my previous names but also credit my previous edits to Samivel (there are too many to lose). I understand I need to ask the administrators to block the earlier names so I will not be accused of sockpuppetry. But I also see that the procedure for changing one's username seems to be disabled. Is it possible to do what I'm asking?

First I was anonymous: 66.114.86.135 Then I was Arnold_Perey Then I was Aperey Aperey Finally I am now Samivel so my username isn't too close to my real name.

Thank you for any assistance you can give. --Samivel 16:48, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Turned User:Aperey (and talk) and User:Arnold Perey (and talk) into protected redirects to your current user/talk page. This should be good enough for your purposes.  ALKIVAR™ 19:51, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

shouldn't these requests be signed with the old account as a minimal security measure? dab (ᛏ) 11:27, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Overlong block of 169.139.224.10

This shared school IP was blocked for one month by Infrogmation: It is in the IP range of the Broward County public schools district and blocks legitimate editor Luigi30. Can an admin please revise this block to expire soon so the user can edit? In any case, it's my understanding that shared IPs like this should not be blocked for longer than 24 hours at most. Thanks! Demi /_C 19:18, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

• I've reduced the block to expire in 15 minutes. --Scïmïłar 19:22, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
• Broward County? I'm in Manatee County. I think it's the main BESS proxy for Florida or something. Luigi30 (Ταλκ) 21:03, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Request block on Ryan Delaney for violating page protection policy

Ryan Delaney admits he purposely reverted this article when applying page protection, even though it wasn't a vandalism case. He has made all kinds of excuses which still add up to a violation of the rules more serious than a 3RR for instance, because he is an admin. See his talk page, my talk page, and the unprotection requests for detail.--Silverback 18:23, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

m:The Wrong Version. Ral315 (talk) 02:32, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

This page is already the subject of a request for arbitration. Protecting the page may spare us the need to enter a temporary injunction in that case. It's quite clear (to me) that the major warring parties are not making any real progress toward a consensus version of the article. Kelly Martin (talk) 02:46, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that I would very much prefer a temp. injunction to protection. It's like the choice between 3RR blocks and protection in an edit war. In my mind, blocks are always better, as they target the offender, and leave the article open to editing instead. We are a wiki, and protection is harmful to everyone, even the ones being good. It is much more harmful than an injunction which only targets the ones acting up. Dmcdevit·t 03:17, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

It's my impression that this case is nearly fully cooked and should be ready to go to voting soon; trying to put in an injunction may just delay resolution of the case. Kelly Martin (talk) 03:41, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Kelly Martin beat me to it. This article is subject to arbitration, so Silverback coming here was um, not really the brightest idea ever. Is the AMA still active at all? Having advocates around for this kind of procedural thing would save people a LOT of embarresment. Kim Bruning 03:45, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Yep, were still around. Sam Spade 03:50, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:AMA Advocates accepting inquiries. What interest did reverting the article prior to protection serve? Sam Spade 03:53, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Ensuring protection on m:The Wrong Version, most likely. --Carnildo 04:53, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Ryan Delaney violated policy by deciding which was the right version and reverting to it. This is the type of policy violation which gives the impression of abuse of powers, probably because it is an actual abuse of powers. Carnildo thinks he is clever by citing the dismissive and mocking "The Wrong Version", but this is just the type of abusive behavior that "The Wrong Version" implies doesn't really exist or is just a matter of point of view. Ryan's behavior is an outright violation of policy, that I doubt "The Wrong Version" intended to take lightly. His behavior is an embarrassment. I tried to find the archive of his adminship vote, to see if he pledged not to abuse his powers. Hubris and adminship do not mix well.--Silverback 09:32, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

We are not going to entertain a demand to desysop an admin for one purported violation of the protection policy where the violation in question appears to have been in good faith. Let's check the outrage at the door and discuss this reasonably, ok? Hyperbolic screaming does not benefit your cause. Kelly Martin (talk) 12:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I never requested desysop'ing, and don't mistake persistance in pointing out hypocrisy and abuse for screaming. I wouldn't think more than a block for a couple days would be in order even if he refuses to correct his abuse. Protecting the article was a judgement call, I think it was unnecessary, but I can accept differences in such judgement calls. However, his revert was completely in violation of protection policy and was a POV prejudgement of the ARBCOM result. I'd be satisfied if he would put the article back in the version that he should have left it in. If he refuses to do so, then another admin should either perform the revert to the version that was in place at the time of the protection, or remove the protection completely and block Delaney, perhaps for 48 hours (this is more serious than a 3RR). Although if the admin just took the proper action in regard to the article, and did not block Delaney unless he put up a fuss. That would at least correct the violation that has been done. The only reason I can see for demanding more severe action is if Ryan resists attempts to correct his mistake in judgement, or if he himself stated when he was soliciting votes for his adminship that he would hold himself to a higher standard, such as never abuse his powers. While Ryan's actions represent an abuse of the powers entrusted to him, this does not approach the extent and severity of abuses that resulted in 172's last arbcom case for instance. What is really disappointing is the deference and failure to correct his actions not only by him, but by the admin community as a whole.--Silverback 13:51, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

The article was reverted back and forth between the two versions 6 times in the 24 hours prior to protection. As such, I do not believe it was in the least bit relevant which particular version happened to be on top at the precise moment of protection. Delaney could have simply waited a few more hours until the next inevitable revert. Or he could have tossed a coin to decide which version to protect. For all we know, maybe he did. I am no fan of protection myself, but your request that Delaney must "put the article back in the version that he should have left it in" seems little more than a thinly veiled demand to see the article protected with The Right Version on top. -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 20:00, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

You're right, it shouldn't have mattered which version was on top, but it did to Delaney, so he should not have been the one to impose protection, and he should not have reverted to the version he wanted. He abused his powers. I take it from what you say, that you would have no problem if the page was reverted to the version that he should have left in place at the time he imposed protection.--Silverback 22:25, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Blocking is preventative, not punitive. Requesting a block for an isolated instance of behavior of this type is a non-starter, especially since so much time has passed. android79 22:40, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm not really sure if this warrants a response, but just so it's perfectly clear to anyone who may be confused, here's why Silverback's objection about my violation of the blocking policy is entirely baseless. Silverback charges that I violated the blocking policy by reverting away from User:Ultramarine's preferred version in a content dispute over Criticisms of communism. This is the relevant point of the Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy:

• Admins should not protect pages which they have been involved with (involvement includes making substantive edits to the page or expressing opinions about the article on the talk page). Admin powers are not editor privileges—admins should only act as servants to the user community at large.

Silverback is perfectly correct in his assertion that admins should not use protection to preserve their preferred versions of articles in content disputes. However, I did not revert away from Ultramarine's version because I preferred the content in the other version: because I have not read either version. I have no idea which version has the better content, nor do I particularly care to. I have never edited that article for content and I haven't the slightest interest in doing so. It is quite literally impossible for this page protection to be anything but an effort to end a stale revert war of epic proportions. This brings us to the second point.

Silverback makes a more substantive claim, which is that I ignored this part of the blocking policy:

• In addition, admins should avoid favoring one version of the article over another, unless one version is vandalism.

To this, I plead guilty as charged; I did willfully ignore that part of the protection policy, and I ignored it because I felt the situation called for me to do so. Rather than revert while protecting, I could have waited for someone else to revert, and then protect the article, and in so doing avoid all appearance of impropriety: but I feel that would not have been necessary. Ultramarine is one of the most stubborn, persistent, and arrogant Misplaced Pages editors I have encountered. I found no justification for protecting his preferred version simply because it was the version that happened to be up at the time. If another administrator feels that I was in the wrong about this, I welcome them to revert to Ultramarine's version, but I strongly urge you to leave the article protected. --Ryan Delaney 03:45, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

By the way, my RFA was here. --Ryan Delaney 04:20, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

• You admit your abuse of the community trust, yet still refuse to make amends. You are one of the most persistant, stubborn and arrogant wikipedia admins, I have encountered. I have see worse abuses, but based on the culture of tolerance here, you will be given a chance to abuse again and again. Hubris.--Silverback 08:14, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Silverback, see Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks. When you bait adminitrators and editors as "persistant, stubborn and arrogant," you are only undermining your cause by providing more negative evidence for Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Silverback and Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Silverback. 172 | Talk 09:04, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Thanx 172, you make my point. Note, that the words you pick out as a personal attack, were mirroring the same words Ryan had used in the passage above. If Delaney keeps this up he may rival an abusive ex-admin in those qualities. And you're right, the situation is very similar to that precipitated the RfC and arbitration case. I try not to let abusive behavior pass without notice. Just as in my response to your abuse, I have made several attempts to resolve this dispute with Delaney. And just as in your case, instead of a mature acknowledgement and retraction, he has tried to spin his behavior, justifying his abusive means, in order to achieve his ends. --Silverback 09:22, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Shhhh! Please be quiet, you are begining to look quite ridiculous.Doc (?) 10:01, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Can you make a cogent case for your characterization? Are you familiar with the facts at all? If not, why should I consider your comment to have any validity. If I were motivated by trying to please the crowd, I too would chime it at the end with a dismissive comment. Why don't you consider the merits, and then figure out what you really stand for when you take the position you just did.--Silverback 10:13, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Ryan Delaney has brazenly and unapologetically repeated his violation of page protection policy on Criticisms of communism. A block is definitely in order this time, since it is clear that he will engage in a revert and protect war if the article is unprotected again. This block would be preventative.--Silverback 17:00, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

What might be needed as a preventative is an injunction in Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Silverback preventing you from starting a new disruptive discussion thread like Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Alleged admin culture of abuse and tolerance of abuse just about every day calling for one administrator or another to be banned. Don't bother replying to this comment. It will be my last one under a heading that clearly disregards Misplaced Pages:Don't disrupt Misplaced Pages to make a point. 172 | Talk 17:50, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

If you believe that you should address that on the arbitration page, instead of making a distracting WP:Point here.--Silverback 23:41, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

In accordance with page policy and practice, I have merged Silverback's second "Ryan Delaney" thread with the first one, which is on the exact same subject, renamed the result so as to have the heading be matter-of-fact rather than a slur, and moved the result down to the bottom of the page, where it should have been posted in the first place. --Bishonen | talk 00:21, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

It is not the exact same subject. You should look at the page. Tony Sidaway unprotected the page and then was attacked by Ryan Delaney and 172 for his lack of deference. Ryan Delaney then reverted and protected the page again, in violation of the policy again. In the previous discussion, it was noted that blocking is preventative, not punative. Now with Delaney's apparent commitment to continual reverting and protecting, it is obvious that the a block will be preventative.--Silverback 00:43, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Should someone perhaps block Silverback for repeat violations of WP:DICK? --Carnildo 00:39, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps someone should block you for violating Misplaced Pages:Civility --Silverback 00:52, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

(I'm trying to respond to Silverback's penultimate comment—Silverback, your moving Carnildo's post out of chronology isn't making it easier to keep this tidy.) Oh, c'mon, why do you want two threads? What's the attraction? The heading of the second one was ridiculous. Please note that even the shortened heading I've retained remains the longest heading on this page. And please note that you posted both your threads immediately underneath the edit mode exhortation: "New entries go down at the *BOTTOM* of the page, not here." I thought you'd be pleased I cleaned up a bit. Bishonen | talk 01:08, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Silverback's in arbitration I believe, so just sit back and watch. Redwolf24 (talk) 01:12, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I didn't move Carnildo's post, I had an edit conflict with him when responding to your post, and so I moved my post and maintained the cronology via indents as is my practice. The attraction is to make sure admins know that this is a second violation. I looked at the intro and didn't see any instructions on where to add it, and since some pages instruct to add at the top, that is what I did. I admit I was confused about that. --Silverback 03:08, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Page deletion

I have deleted the page Brandy January. It appeared to be a lengthy diatribe directed against a Georgia high school teacher, levelling various accusations of deceit and inappropriate behaviour. I deleted the page because the content was defamatory and posted by anonymous editors, and because the individual in question appears not to be particularly noteworthy. Although I could probably stretch CSD A7 to cover this article, I've left a notice of my action here for review. (As far as I know no one has complained about it.) I'd prefer not to drag the woman's name through the mud on every mirror and Google search for the next week. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 01:38, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

• Attack pieces are speedies, whether by policy or by plain common sense. You did right. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 01:49, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Any chance of an address check?

When user:Winnermario was blocked from editing, user:Hollow Wilerding popped up, making the same edits, with the same style of edit summaries and interactions with other editors (compare, for example, Hollow Wilerding's "As there was a vote to keep cover songs separate" and "Since no consensus has been met at the WikiMusic discussion, charts will not be reformatted" with Winnermario's "Reverted edits -- the discussion has not been passed, and therefore the charts cannot be reformatted" and "this article will not be merged with its remake"). He claims that they're friends, and that he's a female English teacher (though as his English has the same ungrammatical qualities and peculiar vocabulary as Winnermario, that seems unlikely). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:00, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

IP check is inconclusive. Kelly Martin (talk) 08:52, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Jens Stoltenberg

Please keep a watch on this article. The Norwegian tabloid press Dagbladet , VG and TV2 Nettavisen made a big deal out of the article on Norway's new PM containing a vandalism on him being a convicted paedophile, and I fear that those newspaper articles may explain some of the recent "copycat" vandalism we have been seeing on that article the last hours. Sjakkalle (Check!) 09:48, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

User:TerrorMaker

If there's an admin around at the moment, could he/she please take a look at TerrorMaker (talk · contribs) This may relate to a recent incident which I reported here As a result of that, User:Oldstylecharm was blocked indefinitely, and the two probably sockpupets were also blocked indefinitely. Oldstylecharm was, I understand, unblocked at the request of Jimbo. I don't know if he has anything to do with it, but this new account certainly seems to have been created for the purpose of harrassing me, and the message is identical to one that sockpuppet Trever (talk · contribs) sent me . It could be someone new, copying an old message sent be a previous abuser, or it could be the same person. As far as I know, the reason Oldstylecharm was unblocked was because he apologized nicely. I've no problem with that.

I can live with a silly but non-threatening message on my talk page, and I don't really want to waste my own energy and Misplaced Pages server space by edit warring. But could an admin take a look at that account please? Thanks.

And on an unrelated matter, how about taking a look at No no (talk · contribs) (hint, Jarlaxle?) as well? Ann Heneghan 11:28, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Ann, I've blocked TerrorMaker indefinitely. I'll take a look at No no too. SlimVirgin 11:30, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Slim. No no has returned as Abigail Williams (talk · contribs). Ann Heneghan 11:45, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Abigail's blocked too, as is Anney, a reincarnation of TerrorMaker. SlimVirgin 11:50, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Now he's rocking Tgb, ≤w00t≥ and ≤woot≥jfg284 12:15, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I had actually blocked these earlier before the creation of the Terrormaker account (on the basis of vandalism nearly identical to that listed above, and impostor usernames), but just for the record, User:Psychoanalyst, User:Psychobeak, and User:Linuxnaut appear to have been more of the same. This diff from 71.107.172.254 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) also seems connected. — MC MasterChef :: Leave a tip — 13:33, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

User:64.83.156.26

This anon vandalized a bunch of articles and blanked Ivan III of Russia . Needs to be blocked. --Ghirlandajo 13:28, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

AOL questions

I blocked User:172.198.168.71 for 24 hours due to vandalism to a number of userpages, then I checked http://www.arin.net/whois/ and saw it was an AOL IP. I have now unblocked it. I have also e-mailed AOLs abuse office to report this, since this does not look like the random activity of a newbie. Now for my questions:

1. Geobytes says that this IP is not a proxy. If it is AOL, can that be so?
2. I see that this particular IP has no prior editting history before the vandalism rampage, while many AOL accounts have long histories of contributions, both good and bad. Why is this?

Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:43, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I've found that AOL, especially when using IP 172.......etc. that whenever they log in and out, they get a new IP...and it is not unlikely that that User:172.198.168.71 has had a series of vandalisms with an almost unlimited supply of random IP's available to them. That IP originates from Sterling, VA I believe so there could also be many thousands of users that log in anon with AOL and also get the IP starting 172.--MONGO 01:51, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

As one who sometimes edits via AOL, I can tell you that you get a new IP not just every time you log in or out, but with every separate URL you visit. Viewing two differetn pages uses two different IPs, and editing one of them will use yet another IP -- always the same IP for the same URL during a session, AFAICT, although this assocation seems to change after one loggs off AoL and logs back on. DES 01:56, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Vandalbot

If the SUPER COOL vandalbot continues to vandalize, than lets immediately contact @ his ISP so we can stop him forever! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.19.198.0 (talk • contribs) 00:47, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Agree with anon. Titoxd 00:47, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

And if that doesn't work, we should tell the cops.

Michael Jackson / Street walker

As I have now reached the three-revert threshold, I don't wish to dig myself any holes, so I'm going to avoid reverting. However, Street walker (talk · contribs) appears not to be familiar with NPOV policy and has begun attempting to whitewash the Michael Jackson article of any mention of controversy, under the guise of making the article shorter and " about his musical career". User has also created the POV fork article Michael Jackson's personal life and controversies (which I have nominated for deletion). There is some discussion ongoing at Talk:Michael Jackson, but so far two admins and myself seem to be united in our opposition to these wholesale changes.--chris.lawson 07:37, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

ISP contact info

What is the "SUPER COOL" vandalbot's ISP contacting information?

The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

• Ah, thank you SPUI. Can we impeach him for that? Radiant_>|< 22:10, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Pat Robertson

Mirror Vax (talk · contribs) is in violation of WP:POINT and, with one more revert, will be in violation of WP:3RR. I have attempted to dialogue with the user on the article's Talk page without success; user continues to remove a category from the page despite giving no reason for doing so. Could use some admin help over there.--chris.lawson 22:04, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Clawson is in violation of WP:NPOV and WP:AGF, and with one more revert, will be in violation of WP:3RR. User says that a category is a "policy" and that removing an article that was placed incorrectly is subverting the imagined "policy". User can't or won't stay on topic and demands that I discuss unrelated articles. Mirror Vax 22:46, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

This dispute should stay on the article talk page, or go to mediation. --Ryan Delaney 03:37, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Zen-master banned from Race and intelligence

User:Zen-master is banned from editing the article namespace of Race and intelligence for two weeks, expiring on November 26, 2005 {UTC). If he edits this article during that time, any administrator should block him for up to 48 hours. For more information, see Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Zen-master and Misplaced Pages:Probation. --Ryan Delaney 00:50, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I formally dispute this. All I did was add {npov} or {totallydisputed} headers to the article, a quick look at the top and middle sections of the talk page will show the race and intelligence article is fundamentally disputed. Ryan, feel free to disagree with my interpretation of the article but what you are doing here is blatant mischaracterization of the controversy. Also, you and your buddies have repeatedly denied the existance of controversy and fundamental criticisms in the article. zen master T 02:08, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

The arbcom's finding includes the statement "Zen-master (talk · contribs) … may be banned from any article which relates to race and intelligence if in the opinion of any administrator his editing is disruptive." Clearly, the page Race and intelligence relates to race and intelligence; Ryan Delaney is an administrator. Case closed. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:48, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Uhh, you've missed a spot. How is adding a {npov} header disruptive? A quick glance at the top and middle of the talk page will show the article is fundamentally disputed on numerous points. So you have to actually establish how I was "disruptive" specifically? zen master T 02:53, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

No, he doesn't. It's enough that in his opinion, your actions were disruptive. Furthermore, a review of the recent history of the article shows that a reasonable person could reasonably characterize your actions as disruptive; therefore, Ryan's determination is not an abuse of adminstrative discretion. The ban is validly imposed. That said: administrators banning for disruption under probation terms should offer somewhat more than a conclusive statement that the editor being banned was being disruptive; such statements need not be extensive or detailed, however. Kelly Martin (talk) 08:29, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

But he has to at least say how I was disruptive? The race and intelligence article is fundamentally disputed, know that. zen master T 16:10, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I had a brief look at the article history and I would not be inclined to overturn his conclusion that your editing was disruptive. If you want to take this matter to the full ArbCom, feel free, but I suspect that you would not enjoy the outcome. Kelly Martin (talk) 18:03, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

• Whether your edit was disruptive is not the point here. If you are banned from editing an article by an arbitration decision you shouldn't edit it for ANY reason. - Mgm| 16:18, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

No, you misinterpret, I am on probation, there is no edit restriction against me from arbcom currently. zen master T 17:02, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

He is permitted under Misplaced Pages:Probation to responsibly edit the article. Fred Bauder 18:08, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

So an admin would have to establish exactly where the "disruption" is before article banning would be appropriate, right? If there is an in good faith dispute I dare say {npov} headers are appropriate, the article and larger area of research are fundamentally disputed. zen master T 18:48, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

It seems you were disrupting the article. If any administrator determines you were you may be indefinitely banned from the article. He only banned you for two weeks. Please be less aggressive. Fred Bauder 21:09, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I am concerned here that Ryan Delaney is an admin involved in conflict with Zen-master, and did the banning himself, without even asking anyone else. After I raised this question on his talk page, he quickly archived it and then emailed me in private. After a total of eight emails, I'm still rather unimpressed by his actions, and disappointed by his response (which was basically nothing, and that it doesn't matter if he is involved, and that he was going to stop reading my emails). I just want to point out that Ryan was the one that was reverting Zen-master here, and has a history of reverting him, so him doing the banning is improper. Myself, I would have been less harsh for just the petty placing of a POV tag. Could someone else uninvolved take more than a quick look and see what you think? Dmcdevit·t 19:57, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm disappointed that you chose to frame it in this way. As long as you want to bring private conversation out into the open (I hate doing this), I stopped reading your emails at the point that you stopped being civil ("I feel like I am talking to a brick wall"). I think WP:FAITH would apply here, and I'm puzzled why you are so convinced that I am in some way punishing Zen-master for being in a conflict with me that does not exist. That I reverted his disruptive edits is only natural. I'm not sure if you would expect the banning administrator to leave the disruptive edits in in the article or not. As for archiving my talk page, I'm curious that you interpret this as a coverup attempt since if I were trying to cover this up I would not have posted it here on WP:AN/I, on the talk page of the article, and on Misplaced Pages:Mentorship committee. Again, WP:FAITH applies.

I don't feel that I am in any way a disputant in this article. I simply perceived what I felt was disruptive editing by Zen-master and so I warned him. When he ignored my talk page warnings and continued the disruptive behavior, I banned him from the article. Since Kelly Martin confirmed that this ban was appropriately applied, I don't know what further purpose would be served by discussion, especially when when the discussion is already taking such an accusatory tone. It might do you some good to try to understand what happened before you decide that abuse occurred.

Still, as I posted on the talkpage for the Misplaced Pages:Mentorship committee, if they decide to take his case I will abdicate and allow them to handle it however they see fit. For the time being, this ban stands. --Ryan Delaney 20:48, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Ryan, I'm not putting anyone on trial here, and this attitude is exactly why I was so exasperated. I went to your talk page first and expressed my concerns as a fellow (uninvolved) admin. You deleted it hours later; I don't know why, but it gave me the distinct impression not to post there again. I'm not saying you were wrong, which is what you keep defending. But your action was improper. How can you deny being involved when you were the one that reverted him? Actually, if you want to misquote me (not that I can see why you bring it up), after four emails where you said nothing new, and refused to concede even asking another admin's opinion when you are involved, I said "My God, I feel like I'm talking to a wall." That would be my response to this comment as well. You were involved, and regardless of the rightness of Zen-master's banning, the only thing I've been trying to get you to do is to ask another admin or here first, rather than make unilaterl pronouncements when you are involved. I expect administratos to be better at taking criticism. Dmcdevit·t 21:23, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

"Involved" is too broad a term, and I think the source of this disagreement. I do not believe I am a disputant in a content disagreement with Zen-master. I am only "involved" in an administrational capacity. --Ryan Delaney 21:51, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

"If they edit an article in those subject areas in a disruptive or objectional way, any administrator who is not involved in the conflict may ban them from the article." So was he involved in the conflict? Fred Bauder 21:41, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

A review of the edit history shows occasional edits which involve the disputed tag. So I'd say he was involved in the conflict. Should have asked someone else to do it. Fred Bauder 21:52, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) I guess I haven't been so specific on this page. think he was, because if you take a look at his last four edits to race and intelligence, all of them were reverting Zen-master , , , . The last one was a revert of Zen-master's content change, the other's all reverts of the tag that Ryan banned him for. And it has been going on for weeks . So to me his is sufficiently involved that it made me worry when I saw this on ANI. But I'm interested what others think, since Ryan seems to think I'm taking it too far. Dmcdevit·t 21:54, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't get it. Are you guys saying I should not have reverted the disruptive edits? --Ryan Delaney 22:19, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I dispute your interpretation that my edits were disruptive, the only way that could be true is if there is not an in good faith dispute over the article. A quick look at the top and middle sections of talk page will show the article is fundamentally disputed. To summarize just some of the controversies: there is a dispute over the word "score" being potentially loaded, and charges of fundamentally unscientific methodologies and exponentially biasing presentation. Can an uninvolved admin or someone take a look at the race and intelligence article and note the fundamental criticisms at the top and middle of the talk page and decide whether {npov} or {totallydisputed} is warranted in this case? thx. zen master T 02:33, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

You're missing the point. Nothing wrong with reverting Zen-master's notice. What was wrong was banning him when you were involved in editing the article. I don't think you should lift the ban or that you should be sanctioned. Just try not to get involved with an article then ban someone who is on probation. Fred Bauder 02:40, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Huh? It most certainly was wrong, the race and intelligence article is fundamentally disputed, when such a situation arises the {npov} template is added to an article. This is basic NPOV policy here. Please take a look at the fundamental criticisms of the article on the talk page for more info on the controversy. There is currently a vote of 2 to 1 to rename "score" to "results", Ryan Delaney hasn't voted or commented which I find suspiciously odd given the fact that he reverted my first attempt at rewritting the intro to change "score" to "result". So clearly there is a dispute, and clearly Ryan is involved, and clearly {npov} should be added (or the article should be substantially rewritten and retitled to adhere to NPOV). zen master T 02:49, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm not involved in editing the article for content. I'm puzzled about why people think I am. I reverted Zen-master because I thought his edits were disruptive. Looking at the edit history, that's about the extent of the editing I've done. Why do people think I am involved in this article? --Ryan Delaney 07:51, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

You reverted my rewritting of the intro for NPOV (replacing the loaded word "score" with "results") which is precisely one among many fundamentally disputed points, so how can you possibly claim both that {npov} is "disruptive" and that you weren't involved in the article? In my interpretation this situation is repeated censorship of fundamental criticisms by a coordinated clan of editors. The race and intelligence article is apparently racism inducing and is exponentially unscientific, why aren't more editors concerned and investigating this? zen master T 08:18, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Look at the diffs I cited. Specifically this, which is what Zen-master is referring to. That is a content revert. Your continued puzzlement is why I was frustrated with you. Like Fred said, I'm not asking for sanctions or anything, but was trying to tell you you made a mistake so you could make sure not to do it again. Dmcdevit·t 08:23, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I think that edit was disruptive, since it's a radical change that is controversial with the other editors and he implemented it with full knowledge of this fact. I did not revert it because I personally disagree with it, but because Zen-master, true to style, was implementing changes as he saw fit without any regard to the approval of other editors. That is precisely the kind of edit that landed him in RFAr. I appreciate that this edit appears to make me party to a content dispute, but I am sure that it does not. --Ryan Delaney 09:01, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Deep breath now, Ryan. Take it for the moment that nobody apart from zen master disagrees with you that the edits were disruptive (not a judgement, just a premise). The point at dispute then is: was it wise for you, holding this view so strongly that you got to the point where you got yourself involved in reverting the edits, to do the banning yourself? Would it not have been wiser to ask an uninvolved admin to make that call? Beyond that, you might ask yourself were your responses to being called on your actions, both privately and here, the best way to go? My own view is that it would have been wiser to adopt different approaches and that you should now walk away from this whole situation and file under learning experiences. Filiocht | The kettle's on 15:52, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

It would have been wiser of the arbcom to ask for an uninvolved admin to make the call. As it is, it amounts pretty much to a blanket ban. But there you are, if you get yourself under probation by the arbcom, you are very probably have wikiquette issues that are unlikely to go away overnight. Filiocht has wisely put that no admin is forced to block zm, and it would be a sign of maturity to let someone uninvolved make the call. dab (ᛏ) 16:01, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I should add here that I don't think that Ryan Delaney's call here was incorrect; it appears to me that zen-master is being disruptive and therefore the ban is validly imposed. That said, Ryan Delaney should, as should all admins, refrain from exercising administrative authority in any dispute in which he is a participant. There are hundreds of administrators on Misplaced Pages; administrators who get involved in editorial disputes should ask a noninvolved admin to intercede. Kelly Martin (talk) 16:25, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Kelly and Ryan's argument doesn't make much sense to me. Ryan admits he disagreed with my "radical" intro change of "scores" to "results" which is ok to disagree, but when an article is fundamentally disputed the {npov} template is added to it. This is basic NPOV policy, if an in good faith dispute exists a simple template is added to an article to signify this fact. Feel free to disagree with my interpretation as always but please don't deny the existence of controversy. zen master T 17:38, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Would it be correct to state that if Ryan thought zen master was being disruptive, he could either, a) become involved simply by reverting the disruptive edits, and ask another admin to ban him, or b) stay uninvolved by leaving the edits as is, place the ban himself, and ask another admin to revert the edits? Mind you, I'm not making a judgment call here, I'm just curious to know if reverting a disruptive edit automatically makes one involved. Thanks. --Kbdank71 18:09, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

You have to actually establish how any edits of mine were "disruptive", my most recent 4 edits in question consisted of 1 edit reverted by Ryan where I rewrote the intro to remove the loaded word "score" to change it to "results", then three edits reverted by Ryan and others where I tried to add {totallydisputed} or {npov} to the article. So this is a situation where an admin is trying to deny the existence of controversy. Aren't {npov} headers added to an article when an in good faith dispute exists? For an admin to deny the existence of criticism and controversy strikes me as censorship, make no mistake: the race and intelligence article is fundamentally disputed yet Ryan and others systematically deny wikipedia NPOV policy. zen master T 19:13, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Some questions

Honestly, I am not upset or trying to be defensive, but I really want to understand this but can't. I am not involved in any content disputes with him. My involvement in the article is strictly administrational. I would really like to understand what people are saying here and make it a "learning experience" and so on, but I just don't see how I did anything wrong. Let me try to break this down so we can find the source of the disagreement:

• I cannot comprehend how it is that it could be okay for me to ban him from the article for disruptive editing, but NOT okay to revert the edits I banned him for.
• That would mean that the people claiming I was "involved" in the dispute think that I should have banned him from the article, but left the disruptive edits in the article.
• Instead, I reverted the disruptive edits and offered to explain to him that I was reverting because his editing was disruptive. I warned him that I would have to ban him from the article if he kept it up. I regret using admin rollback for my reverts; it should have been in the edit summaries that I was reverting because I thought the edits were disruptive.
• He did not heed my warnings, and continued implementing his edits despite them. Hence the ban.

As I see it, if I am "involved" in this dispute, then I am just as involved as any admin who could ever ban him under any possible circumstances.

Some questions, given that no one but Zen-master is disputing that the edits were disruptive:

1. Would it have been better if I had left the disruptive edits in the article, and simply banned him, to avoid the appearance of "involvement"?
2. What specifically did I do that made me "involved" and hence inappropriate to apply a ban?
   • If the answer is "reverted Zen-master", then you would have to answer "Yes" to the first question. This is a sticking point for me.
3. What purpose would be served in asking another admin to apply the ban, given that any other admin has made the same number of content edits that I have, but has not been following the dispute as closely or for as long?

I appreciate most of your patience in discussing this. I have a strong feeling that there may have been a miscommunication somewhere about my level of involvement in this article, and I hope to get it cleared up. --Ryan Delaney 20:01, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

The only way adding a {npov} template to an article is "disruptive" is if there is not an in good faith dispute, a quick look at the top and middle sections of the talk page will show numerous points are fundamentally disputed. zen master T 20:06, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Bluebot

Bluebot is on 1 week block, due to operating out of specified parameters as proposed at: Misplaced Pages talk:Bots. Objection has been made by also one particular user, Noisy. Administrators should be aware that Bluebot is not to continue to operate until all unresolved questions and objections have been cleared. --AllyUnion (talk) 14:06, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Bluebot is unblocked, Noisy is unambiguously wrong, he wanted me to demonstrate concensus on a formatting issue, a guidline was shown to him but he chose to ignore it. there are no grounds to block the bot, I am however going to wait for Noisy to respond before continuing out of politness. Martin 14:47, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I have reinstated the block. Without reference to whether the block is right or wrong, Bluemoose, I think it is inappropriate for you to remove your own block in this case. Please contact another administrator and have them review this issue. If they remove the block, I will have no objection. Nandesuka 16:22, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

You are blocking me as well via autoblock, so please don't do it again. Martin 16:26, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I have unblocked Bluebot. Martin agreed to stop doing 1911 changes and Noisy said on Misplaced Pages talk:Bots that is the only thing to which he is objecting. --best, kevin ···Kzollman | Talk··· 17:57, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

It is generally asked that any operation outside of a bot's original specifications must have at least have a passing mention at Misplaced Pages talk:Bots. This is to assert that the operation that is going to be implemented has some community approval, or at least no community disapproval. --AllyUnion (talk) 23:45, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Lit316 and User:Lit312

Lit316 (talk · contribs) Lit312 (talk · contribs)

These accounts seem to be intended for creating forked versions of articles on authors and poets. A bunch of forked articles were copied in mid-August (see Special:Contributions/Lit316) and most of the copies remain untouched, however User:Lit316/Amy Clampitt was extensively modified but the changes were never copied into the original article Amy Clampitt and we now have two forked articles. As of yesterday and today, the account has now copied a couple more articles. Perhaps it's a role account for a class? -- Curps 16:39, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I think your right, it appears to me to be forked pages for a class to edit.  ALKIVAR™ 21:13, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Is this really all that harmful? Kelly Martin (talk) 12:39, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Atari Forums

Can someone else please consider watching and/or protecting this page? I have now reverted it three times today; the same user who keeps adding the same nonsense has been reverted at least six times in the last three hours. It's a proxy IP so no chance of just blocking the user. -- Francs2000 02:40, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

{{vprotected}} --Bishonen | talk 02:46, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Possible Admin Phishing

I just received the following email:

Subject: Misplaced Pages e-mail

From: Zouhair <zouhairy@XXXXX.XXX>

Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 11:25:46 GMT

To: Allen3

Hi

I send this message to you because I can't send it to Curps who blocked my IP address : http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Ipblocklist?action=search&limit=50&ip=82.232.3.83

I used to use tor as a server but it seems that someone used it for vandalism  :(

And now I'm stuck, I stopped my tor service and I hope that you will unblock my IP address : 82.232.3.83

best regards

zouhair

When I try to double check some background on this information I find that Zouhair has only made five edits in the two-and-a-half years since the account was created, and that the block log shows the IP address has been blocked for a couple of months because it is an open proxy. Is this just a case of social engineering at work, or is there something else going on? --Allen3  12:14, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

It's something else going on. A quick google search gave me , which shows 82.232.3.83 was in fact a tor outproxy. The most interesting part is the name of the server:

router zouhair 82.232.3.83 443 0 80

It's called "zouhair", the same name as the Misplaced Pages account requesting the unblock. Given that, I'd say it's a legitimate request. Since the official directory of tor nodes doesn't have any entry for it anymore, I'm unblocking right now. --cesarb 14:09, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Advanet

User:Advanet recently made an edit to Intelligent design which was reverted. It was bad, but not so bad that it was clear whether it was vandalism. So I went to his contribs to see if he were engaging in actual vandalism. He'd made some edits after the one to ID, so I checked them and found a non-wikified copyvio. I cleaned it up and posted about it on his talk page, and added his talk page to my watch in case he replied to me there. When I saw edits by him on his talk page, I found something disturbing. There were no posts by Advonet, and when I checked the history I found he had made 3 edits to a post by User:Lucky_6.9, changing content, heading (title) and date stamp. I notified Lucky_6.9 via email, but have not received a response. I am posting about this here so an admin can determine how best to handle this, and keep an eye on this user. KillerChihuahua 12:56, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I've reverted the change and warned the user against editing other people's comments to make them appears to say something other than what was originally intended. Kelly Martin (talk) 13:27, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks much, this had me concerned. KillerChihuahua 13:32, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

This bears watching. Advanet Australia is a Search Engine Optimization company. Watch for spam and advertising contributions: case in point, Lyprinol. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 14:25, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Indeed, this looks like spam for snake oil. lyprinol only gets a handful of unique Google hits. android79 14:36, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

note: New user:Neogp recreated Advanet, which I just {{db}}'d. The edits of both users, and probably anyone else who shares articles in common with those editors, should probably be checked. BlankVerse 14:51, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Neogp (talk · contribs) and also Drwnjp (talk · contribs) are both almost certainly the same editor as Advanet (talk · contribs). Kelly Martin (talk) 15:37, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Gosh! etc. I've blocked the lot indefinitely as SEO linkspammers. See block log. Trouble is that Advanet appears to be a role account - I see edits from several Sydney universities. Expect this blight to run and run - David Gerard 16:34, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I just got an email from advanet@gmail.com asking what links they can keep. (This is called Missing The Point.) I've pointed them here - David Gerard 13:06, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Rokeaj

User:Rokeaj keeps blanking his talk page, where I had written a warning after he vandalised Microsoft by moving it into Microsuck. He has since stopped his vandalism to the Microsoft article, but keeps removing the warning from his talk page, and when I revert his blanking, he accuses me of abusing my AdministrativePower®. Although the vandalism warning is no longer acute, I feel it should remain on his talk page, so that everyone on Misplaced Pages would be able to see what experience others have had with Rokeaj in the past. Removing comments from one's talk page (without archiving them) is, in my point of view, an attempt of altering history, and is thus tantamount to forgery or cheating. At the moment we're locked in a revert war. This can't continue forever, so I ask other admins' opinion here. Perhaps one of us should file an RfC on the other? — JIP | Talk 15:39, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

• I'd say just leave it be and keep his user page on your watchlist. If anyone else has a problem with him, then you can step in. android79 16:00, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
  • I agree. It's best to assume that this user just wants a fresh start without a vandalism warning on his talk page. It's in the history. |Thats good enough. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 19:56, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
    • I also agree, it's his user talk page, he can do whatever he wants. -Greg Asche (talk) 23:58, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
      • That I disagree with. He certainly can't do anything he wants. What if he were to edit and falsify my comments, such as make them read "Your move from Microsoft to Microsuck was awesome! That will show those M$ bastards! Keep up the good work!"? There's been precedent of such actions being reverted and counted as vandalism. — JIP | Talk 07:35, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Rokeaj has since moved my comments to User talk:Rokeaj/Trolls, where he calls me and User:Sean Black trolls. The reason why he calls me a troll is because I reverted his blanking of his talk page after he received my warning and stopped vandalising. The reason why he calls Sean Black a troll is simply because he also reverted Rokeaj's blanking. (I reverted the page four times - Sean Black reverted it once, and yet he also gets called a troll.) I am not very happy with this but am accepting it for the time being. — JIP | Talk 18:22, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

• Meh, he's just out to get your goat. Don't feed the troll. He hasn't made any article-space edits since the last vandalism; I'm guessing he'll move on since he knows he's being watched. android79 19:26, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Spellchecker & User:Spellcheck8

User:SlimVirgin has already blocked User:Spellchecker for blindly converting American English to British English. Now User:Spellcheck8 has started to do the same thing. I'm signing off, so someone else will have to clean up the mess. BlankVerse 18:49, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

This user has actually created about a dozen sockpuppets to continue his war on American English spellings: Atlanty (talk · contribs), Xipos (talk · contribs), Za-resident (talk · contribs), Koala45 (talk · contribs), Effoff (talk · contribs), Rusy (talk · contribs), Fryend (talk · contribs), Imperiul (talk · contribs), Fruggy (talk · contribs), and Por.pl (talk · contribs) were all created in a one hour period from the same IP address as Spellchecker (talk · contribs) and the Spellcheck8 (talk · contribs) sock already mentioned. Several of these sockpuppets have been sighted "correcting" American English spellings. Kelly Martin (talk) 19:43, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Add four more socks to that list: RT34 (talk · contribs), Refreac (talk · contribs), Juka (talk · contribs), Sujafu (talk · contribs). Kelly Martin (talk) 19:52, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Checkuser abuse! ] 20:02, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Kelly's spoiling my fun! (Do please continue.) - David Gerard 22:28, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

No, actually, check user abuse. Radiant_>|< 22:37, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Possible Scottfisher sock

160.91.231.73 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) is a potential sockpuppet of Scottfisher (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). I have blocked for 1 week accordingly. Ëvilphoenix 23:35, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Verified. I'm also blocking his other IP sock. Kelly Martin (talk) 02:08, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Tmayes1999 blocked

Per an email to Helpdesk-l, Tmayes1999 is currently blocked from editing. Looking at his talk page, it appears he's been caught in a block before because his IP was the same as a vandals. His username doens't appear in the block log. Could someone take a look for him please? Thanks. .:.Jareth.:. 03:55, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

202.50.90.10

This user appears to be vandalising again, after a previous block, though it could be construed as a test.

Page in question Barefootguru 04:29, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

• I've added 3 suspicious page creations by this user. - Mgm| 11:31, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
  • To AFD I mean. - Mgm| 11:32, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Archived, and subpage proposal

Archived a bunch once more. Would people agree that it's a good idea to use subpages for each issue on ANI, because this page is constantly over 100 kb in size. Radiant_>|< 17:37, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Isn't ANI already a subpage itself? --cesarb 17:51, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

• What I mean is WP:AN/Possible Scottfisher sock, WP:AN/Tmayes1999 blocked, WP:AN/202.50.90.10, etc. Then transclude those into the main page(s) AN and ANI. That way, it's easier to edit and to archive (which this page is always in need of) and you can watchlist particular issues. Radiant_>|< 18:07, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

  Correction: and you would have to watchlist every single particular issue. It would lose the great effectiveness of watchlisting the single main page and seeing everything that's going on. --cesarb 18:15, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

The downside with transclusion is that you'd have to watchlist the subpages to see any changes. Right now, all I have to watchlist is AN, AN/I and AN/3RR in order to see any changes. If I'm offline for a while, I can check the history of any of those pages with one click and see what section was edited. I'm also concerned about newbies have difficulty posting a new issue. Carbonite | Talk 18:17, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Just archive more frequently. Move excessively long discussions to subpages if there is no strong objection from those involved to doing so. Transclusion for every issue would make watching ANI difficult. android79 19:24, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

• Okay, that is a good point. How would it be to have one subpage per day (listing all issues that started that day) transcluded all on the main page? We could even employ a bot to automatically unlist any day page that hasn't been edited in, say, a week. As a aside point I have never watchlisted ANI, I just assume it sees a heck of a lot of changes and visit it frequently. Radiant_>|< 23:46, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

  Still bad, but less bad. How about one per week? --cesarb 23:48, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

  • I'm afraid that would defy the point (and you can't move the whole page to an archive once per week, because at any point there's discussions still ongoing - only you can hardly see which ones). Radiant_>|< 00:17, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

• I don't want to have to be rewatchlisting this page all the time. Please tread carefully. Frankly I think this page is fine as is. Kelly Martin (talk) 00:52, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
  • As do I. — Dan | Talk 01:39, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Nixer

I have blocked Nixer (talk · contribs) for twenty-four hours for violating the spirit, if not the letter, of WP:3RR (four reverts in 27 hours, which I call gaming the system) at Proto-Indo-European language, where I am also an editor. He has previously been blocked several times for 3RR on this and other pages. dab suggested I bring this block to the attention of other admins, because 3RR was not technically violated, and because I'm one of the participants. If anyone feels I blocked Nixer unjustly, please feel free to unblock him. --User:Angr/talk 18:31, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Four reverts in 24 hours would be a violation. I assume you mean 25? android79 18:41, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

You should not block people for 3RR violations on articles which you are also editing. Next time, ask another admin to place the block for you. Kelly Martin (talk) 18:44, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

That said, I endorse this block. Four reverts in 25 hours is gaming the system, and abusive edit summaries don't help. android79 18:46, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

You will note that I haven't gone running to unblock him either.  :) Kelly Martin (talk) 19:20, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

it was four in just over 24 hours. Not a 3RRvio. Since Angr brought the matter here, any admin reading this is free to unblock Nixer, no questions asked. If none does so, we can reasonably say the block has community support. Note that Nixer has a long history of trolling IE pages. Anyway, if you go ahead and unblock, neither Angr or I will reblock him. I didn't do the block myself because I have a strong inhibition of blocking where I'm involved, and I couldn't be bothered to run to an uninvolved admin. But I do think the block is justified as a slap on the wrist for consistent unwikilike stubbornness (aka disruption). dab (ᛏ) 19:11, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I would like to express my opinion that when one has not violated any rules, and administrators are not explicitly authorised to "invent" rules of their own after the "transgression" has been committed, a retrospective penalty cannot and should not be imposed. This resembles a case of abuse of power, a tactic of someone who is in dispute with someone and in order to get them out of the way, invented a rule, imposed a retrospective penalty and lo and behold, once the opponent is "out of the way", the page was reverted back to the blocking administrator's version. I would like to express my confidence in the system and the integrity of our administrators :-) Rex 23:04, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

look at the talkpage. he was just reverting even though he knew he would just be reverted back. It's not like we needed to block him in order to win an edit war. We could just have kept rolling him back, avoiding public scrutiny here. My hope is that the block will teach him better behaviour. Yes, it is not perfectly clean, Angr being involved, that's why we brought it here! If any uninvolved admin would like to unblock then reblock him, feel free. And again, if any admin at all feels that Angr was acting wrongfully, feel free to unblock him too. This is what this noticeboard is for, after all, to have your judgement calls reviewed. dab (ᛏ) 23:11, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I see; I just wasn't aware that administrators are not bound by Misplaced Pages's policies and possess a right of discretionary blocking to be used against users who have not violated any rules. I was just pointing out how neatly everything fell into place: Nixer was blocked at 15:22 and would ya look at that! The same administrator reverted the article at 15:24 (two minutes later) back to the version that the said administrator approved. Who woulda thunk it! Rex 23:19, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

WP:3RR – This can also apply to those that try to "game" the rule on a regular basis, such as by making fourth reversions just outside of the 24-hour time period. The only rule "violated" here was that of an involved admin doing the block, alleviated by its discussion here. android79 23:25, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Of course, do forgive me. Could you please define "just outside"? I mean I have reverted 3 times on one article and then five weeks later I reverted it again. Does the rule apply? Of course it may if I were in disagreement with an administrator over that article. The administrator, acting out of the purest of motives would have reluctantly blocked me, not because he had anything to gain for himself, just because he was implementing policy. I'm just curious to the real reason behind the block; who benefited from it? Why the blocking administrator of course. How convenient :-) Rex 23:43, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

• I would call anything up to 1 (perhaps 2 hours) after the original 24 hour period "just outside". Anything over 24 hours after the original period can not be called "just outside", so reverting 5 weeks after the fact is perfectly legitimate, unless you repeatedly revert without any explanation. - Mgm| 13:27, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not a bureaucratic mess of rules to be blindly followed. I don't care about the rules as much as the intent of the rules when they were made. It's not admin abuse, even though he shouldn't of blocked while involved. I was just talking about stuff like this at my talk page, and here's what I said:

Misplaced Pages has rules like IAR to ignore bureaucracy, and to let us know that it's not the rules, its the reason behind the rules' creation.

Redwolf24 (talk) 23:49, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Could you clarify that a bit? Why wasn't it admin abuse? I realise that you are condemning Wikilawyering, however you haven't explained why it wasn't admin abuse. It looks and sounds like admin abuse: an admin blocking someone and the result was a benefit to the selfsame admin and a detriment to his opponent who stricto sensu had not violated the rule. Perhaps it's impossible! Anyway, it's not for a humble mortal such as myself to comment on what motives individual admins had while acting, heavens forbid *smirk*! It's just so intriguing the way that the admin in question managed to arrive at such an... um... "impartial" conclusion. He would have deserved a round of applauds had he chosen merely to caution the potential offender as to the rule. That didn't happen though, did it? Using his administrative discretion, he arrived at the fairest of conclusions and then I have the sauce of accusing him of feathering his own nest. Naughty naughty me... I'm merely describing things as they appear to the objective outsider. I know neither the administrator/perpetrator, nor the offender/victim. I must admit that Nixer appears (from his edit history) to be a relatively infuriating individual, however it seems very fishy that his opponent in the edit war was able to utilise the "safety hatch" of the 3RR to such an effect. Rex 00:19, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Forget the 3RRvio, I'd have blocked him for violating WP:CIVIL. Profanity in edit summaries is uncalled-for. That being said, he didn't. Everyone here has endorsed his actions, so Rex, I suggest you accept defeat and move on. We've already come to the conclusion it would have been better if Angr had asked somebody else to block Nixer, but the effect would have been the same. Hermione1980 00:49, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

We can't block for personal attacks.Geni 08:15, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

we can block for consistently being a pita. It's not like the guy was blocked for a week, or a month. The block is well within policy, except for the fact that Angr was involved with the article. I tend to strongly discourage "involved blocking" myself, but I think this is more wikiquette than strict policy. After Angr posted the case here, he is in the clear, as far as I'm concerned. This is not a content dispute. It is a simple case of a persistent user refusing to pay the most rudimentary regard to NOR and CITE. dab (ᛏ) 13:04, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

only if they raise it to the level of disspurting wikipedia.Geni 13:24, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Block wars

I've no idea who is in the right or wrong here. But, this dies not look good. --Doc 00:22, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Indeed, that certainly puts the previous issue in perspective, doesn't it? I wonder what the admin abuse was? Probably unblocking himself *snigger*. Rex 00:27, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't get it, I can't find what he did. On his talk page he is being acccused of admin abuse, but no one is telling him what he did. Rex 00:32, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

• Seems to be the gdanskzig dispute. Ouch. Wasn't there an Arb case on this? (Molobo is accused of removing double names, and was blocked for breaking WP:V; Wiglaf is accused of admin abuse by blocking Molobo). Radiant_>|< 00:40, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

While having no idea who's in the right, or the wrong, note that Piotrus unblocked Molobo a total of 4 separate times, removing blocks by 2 different admins. Ral315 (talk) 00:50, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

The original block appears to have been in error, since administrators do not have the privilege of blocking editors with whom they are personally in conflict. I think this is getting to be a repeating theme of recent: All administrators really do need to keep in mind that their access is for specific and limited purposes only. It isn't to allow them to seize control of articles. It isn't even to settle disputes by fiat -- even though it might seem like a good idea at the time, administrative fiat is not part of dispute resolution here.

An administrator who gets into a dispute with another editor and then misuses administrator powers to "settle" that dispute thereby cedes the moral and intellectual high ground, by choosing to stifle the discussion rather than seek consensus. We need to recognize that. Whenever an administrator blocks someone they're in conflict with, or reverts and protects an article that they've been edit-warring on, that action is in itself an admission of being wrong. It's saying, "I can't argue the point or get others to agree with me, so I'm going to stop you from speaking."

And that's unacceptable conduct for any Misplaced Pages editor.

Come on, people. It's not hard, when you get into a conflict with someone whom you think is breaking the rules, to call for an outside opinion. Rather than reaching for the block button when you get fed up with someone, bring others in to take a less-biased look at the situation. If someone you're arguing with violates 3RR, that'll be clear to anyone else who looks at the situation: you don't need to break the rules yourself by blocking someone you're in conflict with. --FOo 03:48, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

This is so basic that is getting increasingly difficult to assume good faith in admins who don't ask for an outside opinion. The janitors need to have clean hands and to be seen to have clean hands. There are ways and means to get things sorted out, blocking someone you're in dispute with or protecting pages you're involved with are not among them. Filiocht | The kettle's on 09:23, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

This is utterly uninspiring. And as far as I can tell, this was the first time this has been brought up, after 4 unblocks. I can't imagine any reason why anyone who would use their admin powers with such disregard would deserve our confidence. I'm going to ask Piotrus and Chris73 to comment in case they don't know about this thread. Dmcdevit·t 09:48, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

I find just silently reverting each other's blocks without entering a discussion is rather undignified for both sides. With "both sides" I mean Piotrus and Wiglaf. Molobo is clearly a nationalist troll. I find it very disconcerting that we have an admin going around, reverting blocks of other admins (Chris 73, Wiglaf), apparently because he is in league with the user in a content dispute. While the 'disruption' block may have been arguable, Piotrus' revert of Wiglaf's 3RRvio block is highly questionable. We should strongly encourage both parties to bring matters regarding Molobo to the attention of uninvolved admins in the future. Warring admins are poison for the community. dab (ᛏ) 13:17, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

As FOo mentioned, my unblocking was due to the fact that I think Wiglaf (supported by admins Shauri and Nightbeast) abused his admin powers by 1) violating the Blocking Policy (Use of blocks to gain advantage in a content dispute) in blocking Molobo (not for the first time) as they were involved in the content dispute (not a naming dispute!) with him, and 2) not stating any reasons for their block on his user page (at least not until I asked him to explain his actions). Btw, is there a clear rule that a user should be notified with reasons for his block? I thought that it was but cannot find it today :/

In addition, the sides involve admins on one side and non-admins on the other (at least until I stepped in, which I do very rarely, since I don't like to get involved in nationality-based disputed, as most of involved parties should know), so this presents additonal problem. The first case I used my admin powers to unblock Molobo, about half month ago, involved the German_4th_Panzer_Division#War_Crimes section in this article and after lenghty discussion Wiglaf and his side conceded that Molobo was right (or at least stopped reverting his additions, allowing the section to remain in the article, which I think is the same as admiting he was right). The block reason Wilglaf used in that case was listed as 'disruption of Misplaced Pages', a reason described on our Blocking Policy as controversial, and Wiglaf failed to present evidence of Molobo's disruption other then Molobo disagreeing with their side. See User_talk:Wiglaf_archive_7#Abuse_of_blocking_rights, User_talk:Piotrus#Blocking, Talk:German 4th Panzer Division and User_talk:Wiglaf#German_4th_Panzer_Division for more information on this case.

In the last unblocking I admit I didn't look sufficiently at Molobo's edit history and I assumed the block was related to the Kulturkampf content edit war that those parties are involved again (note I did not unblock Space Cadet, who is a common and clear case of revert warrior). See where again references provided by Molobo are targeted and note that Molobo seems to use talk pages extensively, unlike many of his opponents (Talk:Kulturkampf). However, after studing the history of this recent conflict (block war) I see that it relates to Molobo removal of comments at Talk:Zygmunt Bauman, which indeed means Molobo acted both in a clearly disruptive way and broke the 3RR rule, and that Wilglaf was right in blocking him this time. This might have been avoided if Wilgaf posted info why he blocked Molobo on his user page. I still think that if an admin is involved with a user in dispute A, and dispute B, and the user breaks a 3RR rule on B, but makes good case for A, that the admin should ask somebody else to enforce the block (conflict of interests here). This said, I apologise here to Wilgaf for accusing him of abuse of admin rights, which - this time - was not the case (I thought Molobo was blocked for edits on Kulturkampf).

I have advocated to both parties and will repeat it here that since they cannot reach an agreement and their conflicts are repeated again and again, that they should use RfC or even RfA. So far my advice seem to be ignored and various revert wars continue - please consider it now. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 16:32, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

"Molobo seems to use talk pages extensively, unlike many of his opponents." One thing needs pointing out: he uses talk pages to badger, to argue and for the purpose of emotional pleading. His participation here is one of constant friction with dozens of editors (check his talk). His four reverts were repeatedly calling a talk post a personal attack, which is a favourite tactic of his. The other I always like is when he calls you a bigot or xenophobe for no reason. The user is a troll and I can only assume he's avoided an RFC or RFArb to this point because people are so tired of dealing with him. Sorry if this seems like an out of nowhere comment, but it needs pointing out. Marskell 16:44, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

The way I see it, there are no reasonable grounds for blocking Molobo, or if there are, Wiglaf is concealing them very well. I can't find any policy which Molobo has violated (I may be wrong of course). Therefore, the block must have been based upon "administrative discretion", which is all very well if a good reason for the block is found. So far, Wiglaf has not even attempted to justify it (as far as I can see). Does anyone know if Wiglaf has been at odds with Molobo, because if he has, then I'd presume admin abuse. If there isn't, but Wiglaf still can't produce a valid reason for blocking Molobo, then I'd presume incompetence and seriously flawed judgement. Rex 17:30, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

As stated by Piotrus, the 4 reverts were on Talk:Zygmunt Bauman. User:Nightbeast placed a notice and Wiglaf obviously noticed. Seems a valid block. Marskell 18:00, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Right, so the only thing that went wrong here was Wiglaf's failure to place a formal notice of the existence, duration and reasons for the block. No wonder I couldn't find anything on Molobo's talk page. My sincere apologies to Wiglaf for implying that he was acting unfairly. Rex 18:13, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

If you disagree with someone's block, the proper way to deal with that is not to instantly unblock, but to bring it to the community's attention. Talk to the admin, come here, file an RFC, but certainly don't unblock when you yourself are involved, that's just as bad. And not four times. I still fail to see how you can have unblockede first without full investigation (there was a valid 3RR filed). I think whether or not Molobo is a good person is tangential to the issue. Repeated unblocks when involved, without bringing it to the community's attention, and without full investigation are always wrong. Blocking people you are personally involved with, without asking another admin's aid or bringing it to the community's attention first is always wrong. Nothing Piotrus has said explains away those facts, nor will anything the other admins involved say. As far as I'm concerned, this is childish behavior from people we expect to know better. Dmcdevit·t 18:27, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

1) It was four times over the period of a month. 2) I was justified in my first two unblockings, and I think that Rex description of Wilgaf misdoings is applicable to them. 3) I was not correct in my last unblocking, but my mistake was caused by the lack of explanation for Wiglaf action on Molobo's talk page (i.e. I looked at Molobo's contribs on the day of the blocking, not earlier, since I didn't now I had to look that far back). I will definetly bring this to the community next time to avoid any confusion. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 19:00, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

WoW takeover

• SuperDude115 has falsely been occused of making a bogus edit on an article whose title is initialed with Willy's initials. Since he would honestly never make an edit like that, and that the article is initialed with Willy's initials; It is likely that Willy has taken over his username hence the creation of my username. Other users may be targets; but beware of him. --Nintendude 03:47, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Why haven't you changed your password? Dmcdevit·t 03:56, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Just what the hell are you doing? IP evidence shows that SuperDude115 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), Nintendude (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), and SuperLucky 6.915 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) are all the same person (SuperDude115 and Nintendude both edited the same article from the same dialup IP within ten minutes of one another, and the same IP address that created Nintendude created Lucky6.915 within a six minute window). SuperDude115 hasn't been used by any IP address that is inconsistent with being used by Nintendude (same ISP, same dialup range, same city). I don't know what shit you're trying to pull here, but I'm reasonably certain it's not something you should be doing. Either your computer has been compromised, in which case GET IT THE HELL OFF THE INTERNET, or you're feeding us a line of BS. Kelly Martin (talk) 12:20, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Let's hear it for CheckUser! Carbonite | Talk 13:42, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Apology for vandalism

I want to apologise for all my past vandalisms on Misplaced Pages. Apologies to Mindspillage, Curps, Android79, every admin on here. I am not going to vandalize Misplaced Pages EVER again. I am genuinely sorry and won't do this again! Please forgive me. --Sunfazer 10:24, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

• Of course, I'm sceptical, but if you really mean this, I'd be glad to accept. I'd be even happier if you decided to contribute to Misplaced Pages in a constructive manner. - Mgm| 13:30, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Figaro / The Merry Widow

User: Figaro is reverting edits to Die Lustige Witwe, either without edit sumamries; or with spurious accusations of vandalism. See also falacious accusations on Talk:Die Lustige Witwe. Andy Mabbett 12:43, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

• Now doing the same on The Merry Widow (ballet). Andy Mabbett 12:51, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
  • And again , with an abusive edit summary. Andy Mabbett 10:21, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
• Ongoing (hence moved to bottom of list). Article is now The Merry Widow. Andy Mabbett 16:20, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

BelAmp/Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/BelAmp

BelAmp was nominated for AfD on November 13th. On November 15th, the AfD banner was removed from the BelAmp page by 82.209.241.55. The same user then went to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/BelAmp and blanked the page. A few minutes later, Andrew O. Shadoura, the original author of the BelAmp page (and, not coincidentally, the author of the program touted by the BelAmp page) moved Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/BelAmp to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/`. This seems like bad mojo, and I figured someone would probably want to know. → Ξxtreme Unction {ł_blah} 16:38, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

User Mr Smiley has been blocked by a bot (page moves)

User:Mr Smiley has been blocked by a bot intended to block pagemove vandalism.

Please check the move log for this user and unblock if this was an error.

Please delete this message after the situation has been resolved.

This message was generated by the bot. -- Curps 18:55, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

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