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An image

Sorry to annoy you once more, but could you check out this image? Part of the FUR says "It is of much lower resolution than the original" which is confusing considering the size. Also, the source seems to be a book published in Bulgaria in 1941, which wouldn't be a reliable source, would it? Thanks in advance, BalkanFever

Macedonians (Greeks)

I nominated the article for deletion: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Macedonians (Greeks). Cheers!--

Your 48-hour block of Oda Mari

User:Oda Mari today edited Liancourt Rocks twice. Each time, she reverted the article to the state in which it had been before another editor changed it. Thus she was preserving the status quo. Any change to the status quo requires agreement on the discussion page. Does a return to it also require agreement?

Yes, the edit box of the page says Users who make more than 1 revert in a 24-hour period will be blocked. So what was Oda Mari to do -- team-revert? Bring up the matter at AN/I? Maybe she goofed, but she hardly did so to the tune of a 48-hour vacation, and if you're not going to warn her before you block her you might at least put a note on her talk page after you've blocked her. This is, after all, an amicable and cooperative editor of long standing who had never before been blocked for even a single hour. -- Hoary (talk) 15:15, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, well, I do admit that when it comes to Liancourt Rocks, I tend to act on the principle of "block first, ask questions later". There is, after all, a huge big notice on the talk page explaining what is expected of editors at this article. The point about reverting is actually not that "reverting to the status quo" gives you any better standing, and it's definitely not the case that any change requires prior discussion. Rather to the contrary – WP:BOLD still holds. If somebody makes a self-evidently, blatant tendentious edit, it can be reverted, once; if somebody makes a potentially good-faith edit it's encumbent on whoever wants to revert to first go and discuss. My block notice contained a clear link to these rules of engagement, I believe, and I also think the editor in question has been around for long enough to know the article and its situation.

I didn't check more closely about his/her good standing. Of course he/she can be unblocked if they provide a reasonable unblock request. But personally I'd like to see a few words from them first. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:26, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I am also puzzled about the lack of a notice on the talk-page. I went to Oda Mari's talk page expecting to see an explanation of what went on, and instead had to track down the incident at the article. And, having done so, I'll echo Hoary's doubts as to whether Oda Mari's actions warranted a 48-hour block. Dekkappai (talk) 16:25, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I have a problem with the the principle of "block first, ask questions later" -- not so much because it worked out awkwardly in this one instance, but rather because your principle is arguably justified by the context of Liancourt Rocks and its edit history. I wish it were otherwise.

Hoary and Dekkappai have addressed themselves to practical issues, which is all that can be done for now; but one thing bears reiterating: We all hope for something better. --Tenmei (talk) 02:43, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Hello. First of all, let me apologize my ignorance of special zero tolerance rules. If I had known the rules, I wouldn't have done that revert. The next thing I did after I noticed I was blocked was to e-mail you that I tried to add a reference to my restored information. I didn't know whether you were on line or not, but decided to wait for your reply for a while. Then, while waiting, I went to IRC to seek help and advice because I wanted to be unblocked privately and was told to request an unblock. After I did what I had to do in real life, I requested an unblock and I was unblocked in minutes. I hope you will understand my good faith and it was my careless mistake. Thank you. Oda Mari (talk) 05:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi. Please, warn or ask questions before you block editors. She has never been blocked years until now. Aside from this, in our personal matters, there are many Korean sources about Comfort Women in Korean War. If you interested in the sources, I will send you. See ya.--Bukubku (talk) 14:30, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Copyright

Hi Fut. I would like to know if the photographies of Fred Boissonnas are in public domain. As I saw there are some photos uploaded, but I do not know if they are really in public domain, since I have no idea on when the author died, and if the Swiss copyright law, which is a bit strange in photos copyrights applies on them. Can you help me?Balkanian`s word (talk) 15:41, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Vevi

Do I have to repeat all my countless arguments why the "Macedonian Slavic" wording is ridiculously ambuguous and inappropriate? There was a clear consensus that it sucks, so I wouldn't insist on it. I'll wait with the revert, but my position remains adamant. Unless you have some very strong new arguments though, I'm going back to the more correct and less-POV version. Todor→Bozhinov 18:40, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

No, you don't have to repeat all your countless arguments. They didn't convince me the first time; they won't convince me now. There was equally strong consensus that your version sucks just as much. Bad luck. And mine isn't "ridiculously ambiguous", it's "deliberately ambiguous", because that's a Good Thing. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:53, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I back up Todor here, mainly cause it is really POVish to have it like that. Could you point me to the discussions so I can read the arguments myself? --Laveol 19:20, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Then you'd better think of another version because I'm vehemently opposed to this one, and don't expect me to believe you don't know why. I've said it before, but it's worth reminding you that a version that a major side strongly disagrees with is not a good version by any standard. Just forget about it, it doesn't work, plain and simple. It can't be a good thing that it's ambiguous, at least in Misplaced Pages, you should know that. The link to "Macedonian language" is more disturbing that it is ambiguous, actually.

Accept the fact that I'm not putting up with "Macedonian Slavic" and I'll do anything that is in my powers to prevent the usage of this wording. I don't mean to sound threatening or anything, but my revert is due tomorrow because you have done nothing to convince me.

I'm still eager to find a working solution though, and I'm always open for good alternative ideas. So if you feel like it, do suggest one or at least try to describe what a working solution would be in your opinion so I can do the brainstorming myself.

Yeah, in short, this isn't staying the way it is now but I'm confident we can come up with something better if we co-operate

Laveol, the discussion is at Talk:Florina#Why "Macedonian Slavic" is unacceptable. Todor→Bozhinov 19:27, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

You know what? I'm fucking sick of you all. Of all this stupid idiotic lot of people pushing their separate national agendas. That includes just about every single person editing these topics. I'm so fucking sick of it. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:33, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Everyone's sick of it, man. I'm afraid you have an especially bad case of the Balkan Fever :-(

Take one of these a day so your head don't asplode. BalkanFever 03:05, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Anyway, "local Slavic" is unacceptable because it implies a degree of linguistic precision that is simply not warranted. It's either "Macedonian Slavic" (with whatever link target), or straight "Macedonian/Bulgarian". My personal preference for the place name issue would actually be to just have either straight "Macedonian" or straight "Bulgarian" and mechanically go by geographical proximity: whatever country is nearer. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

You know somewhere in the ubiquitous Danforth's book, one immigrant from Florina (with a Greek national consciousness) said something like "We're Greeks. We speak Macedonian, but we're Greek." BalkanFever 10:31, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Todor, you talk about compromise and reaching an agreement. But you dont actually care about it. Macedonian Slavic was the compromise. It combined Macedonian + Slavic and redirected to a chapter about the language in Greece. Please give us your input. It would be appreciated. PMK1 (talk) 11:05, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Future Perf, as for your edit summary at Konstantinos Christou it is a good idea. Let us finally decide on what to call the places.

Here is my proposal,

• for all place names in West Macedonia and Central Macedonia (except Serres prefecture) we use the term ]
• for all place names in East Macedonia and Serres prefecture we use a combination of ]/]
• for all place names in Thrace we use the term ]
• for all people from Aegean Macedonia whose ethnicity is disputed we use ]/]
• for all people from Aegean Macedonia but who are ethnically Macedonian we use ]

This is a fair and appropriate arrangement which takes in to account the actual linguistic classification of the local dialects. Any major disagreements? PMK1 (talk) 11:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Just a question: since Bulgarian and Macedonian are almost identical, and it is thus difficult to characterize as B or M the x slavic dialect of Greek Macedonia (if Serres or Drama is closer to Bulgaria or RoM is no criterion for me), and since we have a relevant article treating all these dialects, where it could be more informative for the interested reader to go, we don't you just use "local slavic" everywhere?!--Yannismarou (talk) 14:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I stated my opinion, including my reasons why I'm not happy with "local Slavic", at User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise/Archive 15#local Slavic vs. Slavic Macedonian vs. Macedonian. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:12, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Yannismarou, the languages are not almost identical and linguistically there is much which seperates the languages. Personally i believe that having M/B on all of the articles is putting too much into the heading. A split based on linguistic actualities could be considered the most appropriate option. PMK1 (talk) 00:30, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

The "proposal" has been rejected. If you expect our side to discuss anything, don't make insane proposals. Any other ideas? I'm fine with "Bulgarian/Macedonian" / "Macedonian/Bulgarian" everywhere, but nothing that involves "Macedonian Slavic" and its simplified version that is only "Macedonian", so please take this in consideration next time you "propose" anything. Thrace is out of this dispute, don't involve it to make it seem like you're "giving away" something. Todor→Bozhinov 06:51, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

"Has been rejected"? Well, you (singular) rejected it. As for Thrace, that was a prominent red herring used by Lantonov in the earlier discussions, pretending people were trying to force "Macedonian Slavic" on the eastern places. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:52, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Since when is the passive inapplicable to the singular? I just wanted to sound more authoritative to scare you :D Let's go with "MK/BG" & "BG/MK", with who goes first determined by geographic proximity. I say no omissions though. Todor→Bozhinov 09:36, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Todor, why is it that you rejection my proposal? Because the B word is not there? I cannot see the purpose of having the Bulgarian langauge or the Macedonian language mentioned if that is not the language spoken there? Please enlighten me.

As for ], what is actually wrong with it? Please tell me. We are talking about places in Florina, Kastoria and Imathia regions where the language is clearly Macedonian. I think that your objection is that the word "Bulgarian" does not feature there, am I right or wrong? Describe to us your objection. PMK1 (talk) 13:01, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

You guys are going too far. I can't believe you detest Bulgaria so much as to compare it to the insult that is the N word :) What is actually wrong with "Macedonian Slavic" is that it incorrectly links to "Macedonian language" and it is understood by most people as a synonym/euphemism for "Macedonian language". With "the language is clearly Macedonian" we're going nowhere. And yes, we're either having a wording that includes neither MK or BG or a wording that includes both. Why the hell are we discussing this again? We're supposed to brainstorm new proposals, not ask me to repeat my points again and again and again. Todor→Bozhinov 16:28, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

This is the WHOLE POINT, Todor. The language spoken there IS the Macedonian language. Linking "Macedonian Slavic" to Macedonian language, is 100% appropriate. Not only does it disambiguate, but in Greece it IS a synonym/euphemism for the Macedonian language. Linguistically the Slavic language spoken in West and Central Macedonia is the Macedonian language. This is a fact only disputed by Bulgarian and (some) Greek POV. You cannot seriously be claiming that in places like Florina, Kastoria and Edessa that the "local Slavic" language is Bulgarian. This is WP:FRINGE. If you do not come up with a proposal that is not WP:FRINGE, I will be WP:BOLD and put the reasonable compromise (which was reached before you brought all the king's horses and men).

Seriously Mr. Božinov, if the language there is not? Macedonian, then what is it Bulgarian? Despite the fact that the dialect upon which the modern Macedonian language is based upon is one of the dialects spoken in Greece, you still persist on claiming that it is anything but Macedonian Slavic.

BTW, nice joke. :L . PMK1 (talk) 07:36, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I just had to do dozens of reverts because someone of you thought it would be wise to do these edits in the midst of a discussion without asking. Anything that one-sidedly imposes the Macedonian language on a population that doesn't call their language Macedonian, doesn't identify as ethnic Macedonian and has a Bulgarian history will be rejected by me. Have some respect for the Bulgarian history of these places: do whatever you like with the "Macedonian Slavic" bullshit, I couldn't care less about it, at least let us put the Bulgarian names there as well. If you believe the Bulgarian dialect of that population is linguistically classified as "Macedonian Slavic", then add "Macedonian Slavic", just don't remove Bulgarian. "Local Slavic" is meant to be the compromise, "Macedonian Slavic" means "Macedonian" to everybody and that's why it won't work as an umbrella term. Todor→Bozhinov 20:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Here's what I suggest:

• do whatever you like with your linguistics-based claims, add "Macedonian Slavic", "Macedonian", "Martian" or anything and add the names you see on the Bulgarian Misplaced Pages interwiki links right away like you do
• let me add the Bulgarian name of any place that I can prove has had a Bulgarian population (referenced by sources such as Kanchev, the Exarchate or western researchers) based on historical reasons
• people who I can prove identified as ethnically Bulgarian should be listed as such, with a clarification that they are considered Macedonian in the Republic of Macedonia
• people who you can prove identified as ethnically Macedonian should be listed as such Todor→Bozhinov 20:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

"people who I can prove..."? Thank you for confirming that your purpose of editing here is to push it. Push in as much of your favourite nationalist stuff as you can "prove" (i.e. get away with). That means I will again treat you as an enemy of this project that needs to be fought and pushed out until (hopefully) banned one day. I detest your attitude. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:58, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Todor, the point of Macedonian Slavic was to be a nuetral and encompassing term for ALL of the villages, regardless of their modern ethnic identity/ies. I was unaware that anyone here needed your permission to edit a page?! It is ridiculous to add Bulgarian and Macedonian Slavic, seperately when the names are excactly the same. I hate to break it to you, but the language spoken there is considered to be Macedonian, "Slavic" is used not only as a disam. term but also to correctly judge the linguistic situation present in the region, where a reference to "Slavic" is made to distinguish it from the Greek usage of the term. Todor, put it this way. Their is sufficient factual evidence which claims that the language spoken there, is apart of the Macedonian language. Unless you can provide sufficient evidence, (which treats Vardar and Aegean Macedonia differently), that the language spoken their is NOT Macedonian but in fact Bulgarian, or any other language?, then the appelation should be removed. Until then "Macedonian Slavic" is the best term for use.

I am not interesting in "proving" that person A is this and that person B is that. You should know that by now. You go and do what you wish. PMK1 (talk) 01:18, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

So FP, should he be taken to ANI or AE or what? BalkanFever 09:25, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

So just because I insist on Misplaced Pages:Verifiability I'm an "enemy of the project" now? Your personal insults have gone way too far, Fut.Perf. But thanks for finally confessing that your ultimate goal is to eliminate all resistance to your POV. We're going on WP:RFM this evening and I have the full intention to have this dispute resolved one way or another, even if that means WP:RFAR. Todor→Bozhinov 11:16, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Even WP:FRINGEVEIW can be verified by sources. It does not mean that it belongs here. PMK1 (talk) 11:45, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Sunshine

I recognize what a good contribution you make to Misplaced Pages and how much you care about the topics you focus on. But I also notice that in the last couple of weeks your tone to everyone has become increasingly jagged. We're not all your enemies and don't want your positive contributions to the project to become drowned in the negativity. Not all of us are ignorant jackasses. (Taivo (talk) 19:45, 14 April 2009 (UTC))

I think Fut.Perf. just needs a break. Balkan-related discussions can get quite stressful and wikistress is not to be underestimated, I've had a recent experience with that. I apologize if I said anything wrong above, but I was honestly trying to find a working solution for a pending issue that I find important enough. I really don't know what provoked this, but it's okay anyway, I can't blame Fut.Perf. for reacting like this. Stress sucks. Todor→Bozhinov 19:57, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Taivo, I have never had a problem about having a nice collegial discussion with you. Even if we disagree on some stuff, we can disagree as colleagues and on a decent intellectual level of argument. I'm sorry if I came across as hostile to you. Disagreement over our mutual academic interests is something entirely different from having to deal with people with national agendas. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:28, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing the air. (Taivo (talk) 20:41, 14 April 2009 (UTC))

Makedoniya

Dear Fut. Perf., you wrote:

“better to treat the "j" and "y" spellings together, since they are used interchangeably for both languages (see e.g. http://www.promacedonia.org/v_mak/index.html for the name of the Bg newspaper.”

That is not the case with Bulgarian language though, where "j" and "y" are not used interchangeably. The letter "j" was used in the past — as a matter of fact until 1999, the year of your quote. Since then "y" has been used instead, according to governmental regulations that became part of Bulgarian Law by way of the Transliteration Law passed earlier this year.

Therefore, there are no reasons for Bulgarian entries to appear under "Makedonija" title. I am mot going into reversals, hopefully you would reconsider your last edit. Best, Apcbg (talk) 20:31, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, and we all know you have your very personal interest in reminding the world of this Very Important Fact. But the Bulgarian standardisation doesn't change the fact that readers will still come across the "j" spellings out there in the real world and may be searching for them. By the way, putting a link on the Makedoniya page is really hiding it from sight. Nobody ever enters "Makedoniya" in the search box. Look at my statistics on Talk:Macedonia. During the whole month of March, a whopping 10 readers world-wide ever conceived of the idea that there might be something worth reading at Makedoniya, as opposed to over 600 who tried the spelling with "j". Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:13, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I am really sorry for your attitude, Fut. Apcbg (talk) 04:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

What, for pointing out that you have been pushing adherence to "your" system here on WP with an obvious WP:COI? But whatever. By the way, is it really true that this law is threatening private citizens with punishment if they don't comply with those transliteration norms in their publications?? Wow. I am really sorry for you, for having to live in a banana republic with no academic freedom. What a shame. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:20, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I see myself as an ilunga (I know the word may well not exist, I just like it), so I thought I should remind you your sarcasm is bordering on national slurs here. Please pick your words more carefully or I'll have to report you despite my reluctance. And I'm still open for suggestions on the issue I attempted to discuss above, by the way. Todor→Bozhinov 10:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

What the...? Calling your country a banana republic is not sarcasm, it expresses a totally sincere feeling of horror. Nothing personal, no slur, just complete amazement at this utterly ludicrous violation of intellectual freedom. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:12, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I know what you mean. They sent the local version of a SWAT team when I accidentally used a j in a private chat window. Must suck to live in a banana republic, but at least it's not a grapefruit monarchy.

Apparently, a standardized government-approved transliteration system is a feature of stalinistic demagoguery? Come on, I actually agree with you on your dispute with Apcbg, but calling my country a 'banana republic' over that is an unprovoked slur. Todor→Bozhinov 10:29, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Of course, there's nothing wrong with a standardised system. But forcing the system on private individuals for use in their personal publications, under threats of penal sanctions, is just incredible. As an academic, I'm seriously horrified even at the thought. No, it's not Stalinist repression, but the fact that this country's state organs could even conceive of such a rule and not immediately realise how ludicrous that was shows that they have no solid grounding in the traditions of democratic freedom and the Rule of Law. So "banana republic" fits fairly well. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

(undent) Actually, the Bulgarian Academy seems to be promoting names in -ия to be transliterated as neither -ija nor -iya, but simply -ia, by way of exception . That also fits a common practice. "Makedonia Square", the "Makedonia" chalet and the historical Makedonia newspaper are quite frequently transliterated just like that. Should we re-merge the Makedonija dab page also with the Makedonia one after all? Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:51, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, it's official: The law itself says "Буквеното съчетание 'ия', когато е в края на думата, се изписва и предава чрез 'ia'." . Quick, change those pages, or Apcbg will be fined up to 5000 Leva for publishing an encyclopedia in contravention of the rules. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:03, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I for one have no problem with that - Preston Makedonia comes to mind. BalkanFever 10:55, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Of course Makedonia is the standard transliteration from Bulgarian per the ия thing. But what's the entire "penal sanction" scare that you've gone mental about anyway? You seem to actually believe this, which is kind of worrying. If that does exist, you're free to bash the Ministry of Education/Culture/whichever, but I still demand an apology because I find the 'banana republic' thing offensive and you seem to be enjoying that. Todor→Bozhinov 12:04, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Uhm, did you read the link? . Of course, I only read it through google translator. The relevant passages in google English are: "A person who compile, issue or publish dictionaries, encyclopedias, textbooks and teaching materials, training, advertising and other reference materials, must apply the rules of transliteration, established by this law." (="Лице, което съставя, издава или публикува речници, енциклопедии, учебници и учебни помагала, учебни, рекламни и други справочни материали, е длъжно да прилага правилата за транслитерация, установени с този закон.") plus: "Art. 13. 13. Който съставя или издава речници, енциклопедии, учебници и учебни помагала в нарушение на чл. He compiled and issued dictionaries, encyclopedias, textbooks and teaching materials in violation of Art. 2, ал. 2, para. 5, се наказва с глоба от 400 до 800 лв., съответно с имуществена санкция от 2000 до 5000 лв. 5, shall be punished by a fine of 400 to 800 leva, with penalty payment of EUR 2000 to 5000" (="Чл. 13. Който съставя или издава речници, енциклопедии, учебници и учебни помагала в нарушение на чл. 2, ал. 5, се наказва с глоба от 400 до 800 лв., съответно с имуществена санкция от 2000 до 5000 лв.") – I will apologise if you can show me how I misread that. Otherwise, the "banana republic" stands. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Makedonia is okay with me — Bulgarian Roman spelling for Bulgarian names. Personal preferences, OR or ad hominem are not the Wiki way. Apcbg (talk) 12:38, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Fut, did you just set a condition for retracting an insult? I didn't say anywhere that I'm accepting any conditions: it's like "Okay fine, I won't call you the N-word if you give me 50 bucks". It's a shame that you're so willing to dub my country a 'banana republic' because of a funny law, you'd be amazed how many ridiculous laws exist in much older democracies. Here's a read. I'm sorry, but if your next comment here doesn't contain an apology, I'll have to report you. Todor→Bozhinov 13:34, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Report me. Banana republic, banana republic, banana republic. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

You are obviously aware of the Panousis-Dalaras case in Greece!--Yannismarou (talk) 14:03, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

No, actually I'm not. Is it of comparable bananicity? Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Summary: Panousis made a satire of Dalaras, who went to justice. The latter condemned Panousis, but Dalaras interpreted the court decision in a controversial way: he argued that Panousis should pay a fine whenever he mentioned his name (1,000,000 drachmas at the time). So the next day, Panousis called the media and just told them: "Today, I want to spend 3,000,000 drachmas: Dalaras, Dalaras, Dalaras."--Yannismarou (talk) 14:16, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, actually, the above anecdote has been already immortalized in Misplaced Pages's encyclopedic history.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:19, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I see. Well, they apparently can't get me for saying "banana republic, banana republic, banana republic". But if I should mis-spell "bananova republika", I might be fined, especially if I do so while compiling an encyclopedia. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:32, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Bananova Banovina. Just saying. Jd2718 (talk) 17:55, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Andreas Tsipas

Hello Fut Perf. I am just bringing to your attention of Andreas Tsipas. Another case of promacedonia.org gone out of control. Apparently he is also Bulgarian. When you have time please check it out. PMK1 (talk) 00:21, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Promacedonia is not a source. Todor→Bozhinov 10:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

That was my point. It begins with a BULL and ends with HIT. PMK1 (talk) 11:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Was your point really that whether a source was republished on Promacedonia or not is totally irrelevant as to its credibility? Promacedonia is just an online library, I think it's the eleventh-hundredth time I've said that. You cannot put the credibility of widely accepted academic publications in any doubt just because they've been republished on some website. Todor→Bozhinov 12:04, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

My final answer is: "Bulla ice cream is a hit". Lock it in, Eddie. BalkanFever 12:18, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Well done! Now for 1,000 dollars .... :) PMK1 (talk) 13:35, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Gabr-el

You stated that this short block was placed in order to serve as a warning. First of all, I see no actual warning before the block, and second of all blocks for this purpose are specifically prohibited by WP:BLOCK, see WP:BLOCK#Recording in the block log. I'm not clear on the actual circumstances or whether a severe warning is merited, so I assume it is. But nonetheless, blocks are not supposed to be used for this purpose. Could you comment further? Mangojuice 17:20, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

The block has nothing to do with just recording something in the block log. It's a "warning" block only insofar as it's not longer (than the present 24hrs). This user was blocked for disruptive tendentious editing. He is part of a general problem of tendentious ethno-religious factions who have been extremely entrenched in a long-standing POV war against each other, about ethnic names at Assyrian people and related articles. I gave a general warning to all parties in that conflict here . The edit that ultimately triggered the block was , with its blatantly hostile, non-cooperative attitude and display of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT tactics regarding the non-feasability of ethnic POV-forks. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:34, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Ok thanks. BTW, I released User talk:Mydoctor93 from his block over edit warring at Liancourt Rocks; the article sanctions say editors may be banned rather than blocked, so I've banned him from the article for 1 week instead. (He had promised to obey the special restrictions, too.) Mangojuice 17:44, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

How do I make a link to my page?Chrusts 22:14, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

For the record

Regarding this: no, I have not "had sanctions related to other nationalist disputes" - nowhere on WP:DIGWUREN will you find my name. - Biruitorul 01:49, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

User:Xashaiar

I see you've had problems with this guy too. He's been following me around making dubious edits to pages about the history of Iran. He's pretty insistent that we should have a random sprinkling of Perso-Arabic script in the Sassanid section of Persian Empire (because they wrote like that in the 3rd century!). He also thinks mentioning "Arab conquest" in any of the sub-headings of the Iran page is "vandalism" (apparently it should be under the euphemistic title "Politic change" - sic). Mentioning that the Afsharid dynasty was of Turkic origin is another no-no. Hmm, I wonder what the motivation here is...--Folantin (talk) 14:42, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

MAP

Your new map the the Macedonian region is accurate except for ancient Macedon, it did not cover Halkidiki. Look here:

Thanks, Polibiush (talk) 23:49, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Substantiate

Your claim of my posting plagiarism, if plagiarism is pointed out as plagiarism indeed; it will be retracted. Do not threaten people, and do not act as if you own the articles.

Do not delete infoboxes on the grounds that you do not like them, wikipedia is not your personal ciflik to decorate it accordingly.

Do not delete or trivialize references to the iso-standards pertaining to the case in point that may or may not suit your POV.

And lastly your "reminder" of wikipedia POV-policy in my talk page is unwarranted since I am not pushing any POV. I reinstated the infobox which you deleted simply because you didn't like it.

Cheers.

--Gkeorgke (talk) 00:21, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Northern Epirus

Hi F.P., i've made some adjustments on your map about Epirus. Alexikoua (talk) 15:58, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey, thanks, good job. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:23, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Notification

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Move of the article Republic of Macedonia to Macedonia by User:ChrisO and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.

Thanks,--Yannismarou (talk) 03:46, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

April 2009

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Miladinov Brothers. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. Laveol 13:15, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Not that important, but...

You know you can use the pipe trick for the link maintenance you're doing; typing ] instead of ] can save you some precious seconds :-) BalkanFever 15:45, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I know, I actually do that, but the system fills it out automatically in the resulting text. But thanks for the hint. :-) Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:44, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Happy Easter everybody

To all lonely south-east European wikipedians who are here on a day like today, be it to fight, POV-push, vandalise or simply to edit, instead of celebrating out in the sun with their families: Happy Easter. -- Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:02, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks or "Воистина Воскресе" in Church Slavonic. No sun here though, only rain, rain, rain. --Laveol 13:47, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Taga za Jug, eh? I'm told they're having a spell of fine early summer weather on the southern tip of the peninsula. Up here it's sunny but cool-ish.

(Or should that be ...za Yug? Bad Fut.Perf., no banana.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:54, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

You've done it now. I'm listing you for a European Arrest Warrant right away. Rules are rules, you know :))

As for the spell - it lasted right until a couple of hours ago. I know you Westerners have sent us the bad weather to spoil our beautiful holiday. --Laveol 14:03, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Common English usage's the rule - Yugoslavia not Jugoslavia :-) Apcbg (talk) 14:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Of course, common English usage of "Westerner" is the Western U.S. (cowboys, Indians, etc.). From the Real West, Happy Second Easter (the morning here is bright and sunny). (Taivo (talk) 14:28, 19 April 2009 (UTC))

Truly, He is risen! It's rainy in Pleven today and prolly even worse in Sofia, was a good sunny week until yesterday though. Todor→Bozhinov 19:25, 19 April 2009 (UTC) Same to you to. Best regards. Vistina vozkrese/vajskrs. :L PMK1 (talk) 07:49, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

The sun is shining here in Orthodox Melbourne (local Slavic: Мелбурн, Melburn) :) BalkanFever 08:00, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

well

no irony intended. What is Arbcom. Is it about the RoM or Macedonia article?Politis (talk) 17:19, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Huh? You seriously don't know what the Arbitration Committee is? Didn't you say on their page that you intended to make a statement regarding the Macedonia case? Like, here? (/me shakes head.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:24, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

And by the way, please stop e-mailing me. I have no interest conversing with you further in any off-wiki channel. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:25, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Hopefully, this helps more than this hurts.....

I've given my 2₵. It may or may not impress the Committee, but I figured, "what the hell."
Best of luck,
--NBahn (talk) 03:16, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Found it

It was not deleted :-) just goes to show how convoluted wikipdia is for ordinary users. It is a full time job on wikipedia to keep up with developments, store links, file contributions, make edits, send emails. It has to be a full time job, or full time occupation. Although there is another of your contributions that I seem to remember you had deleted, but now I have to doubt my own self. However, I had asked you to delete my name from the list you made at, But I had asked you to delete my name from the list. Was it deleted or am I looking at archived material? Politis (talk) 12:45, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I didn't in the end remove your name from my list, because you didn't remove your name from the poll (as Tasos did). Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:14, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

RE: ?

Of course I didn't, sorry for that, my mistake Maen. K. A. (talk) 15:06, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Macedonia (country)

While I don't agree that preemptive mass relinking of wikilinks to a redirect page in order to avoid a theoretical disambiguation page later make a whole lot of sense, and it does come off like you're enforcing an opinion with your choice of name for the article, I don't want to get involved. The sides arguing over Macedonia are too ridiculous. So thanks for the explanation there, and keep up the good work!--Patrick «» 15:26, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I havent uderstood what you are disambiguating re the term Macedonia. Can you give some examples? Politis (talk) 15:30, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Look, up to a few days ago, Macedonia was a disambiguation page, right? Links in article text should never point to a dab page, they should point directly to the target article. Now, we nevertheless had a couple hundred articles that mistakenly had plain ] links. Of these, about two thirds now happen to have suddenly become correct, because they did in fact mean the country. Others meant something else. So, I'm going through them all and changing, say, ] to ]. Without changing the displayed text. For safety, I'm also changing the ones that mean the country, to ], in case we end up with the decision to move the pages back again as they were, because this way the links will always work no matter where the disambiguation page is. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:40, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

My curse to you FPatS is that I hope the official name of the country changes officially and then you will have to do the rounds again :-) Politis (talk) 15:49, 21 April 2009 (UTC)