Misplaced Pages

Fair use for coa

You wrote (on my talk page): Thanks for your answer fair use for coa, but I am bringing this here. Hope you don't mind. I have uploaded all the coa's in List of cities in Lithuania and some more. But what I should do now? Redraw them? Most of them are from geraldika.ru, ngw.nl, litva.lt, or crwflags.com. Very few are from gov sites.

Note: I have no idea what is fair use (even though I have read the wiki article about it) and I hate law. So if you could just tell me what to do... :) Also my graphic abilities on scale from 0 to 10 are about 1. So redrawing them is not really an option for me. Renata3 20:28, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't have a simple answer. You could ask for someone qualified to redraw them; or you could post this to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Fair use and ask for a clearer guideline there; or you could use a template which claims fair use and try to proved a proper rationale; or you could not have images of the coats of arms.

Fair use is a tricky but important legal doctrine in US copyright law. It says that when you use a limited amout of an admittedly copyrighted work for a proper purpose, in a way that doesn't hurt the copyright owner too much, you are acting leagally. Ther is no automatic formula for what is and what sin't fair use. The only way you know for sure that soemthing is fair use is if soemone sues you for copyright infringmenbt, you defend on the grounds of fair use, adn the court rules in your favor. it is very much a case by case question, and depends hevily on the facts of the particular case. You can be almost sure if soemone esle has used a simialr copyrighted work in much the same way, and has won in court. If there has been no court case very similer to yours, then you have to tro ro reason from less similar cases, adn guess what the court would do if you were sued. Fair use is a defense, which means it is only raised by someone who has been sued for copyright infringment. The classic form of fair use is a book reviewer who quotes passages from the book under reveiw to analyze them, or the teacher who makes copies of a passage for his class, to serve as the basis for a lesson or discussion. Note that in both cases the person using the copyrighted work is analyzing or discussing thst work, not just copying it. Note also that neither uses the whole work, only a small part of it. Note that neither is at all likely to hurt the comercial intersts of the copyright holder -- people will not refrain from buying a book because they can read a reveiw instead. Note also that both uses are of a kind generally considered socially beneficial. These are the kinds of factors considered when determing whether a use of copyrighted materiel is fair use.

Misplaced Pages tends to be suspicious of fair use, partly because it is often claimed by people who realy mean "I don't have any right to use this, but i want to and don't think it does any harm". Also, sicne part of what makes soemthign fair use is whether it is being used in a commercial setting, contet that is acceptable fair use for wikipedia itself might not be for comercial mirrors and re-users of wikipedia content. Also fair use is specific to US copyright law, and similar concepts in the laws of other countries where they exist, are much more restrictive. Because of all of this, our fair use policies are rather more restritive than the law probably requires.

I'm sorry not to be more help, this is a tricky and complex subject, and much depends on the exact source of the content being sued, who the copyright holder is, and exactly how it is being used. DES 21:42, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Copied from User Talk:DESiegel: Ok, thanks for such a long answer. But are coa's copyrighted? I mean, some family coa might be, but governmental? If I would redraw them, how somebody would say that I did not just copy paste it from somewhere, because they all are the same. There is one original, confirmed by a decrete by the president and then it is reproduced by others. How do I reproduce reproduction so it could be released to public domain?

I just read a copyright law by the Lithuanian government. Now it reads (official translation):

Article 5. Works not Attributed to the Subject Matter of Copyright

1. Copyright shall not apply to:

3) official state symbols and insignia (flags, coat-of-arms, anthems, banknote designs, and other state symbols and insignia);

Now the question is: are city, municipality and county coa's official state symbols?

Ah, I loved that template... Such a no-brainer... And I hate law. :) Renata3 03:28, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Well in traditional heraldry, the only official think is the balzon, the written description, and different heraldic artists can do different versions of the CoA which all match the blazon, but are not identical in artistic detail, and which would be subject to copyright by the artist or the artist's employer. In more modern use, particuarlly by a goverment or institution, the actual visual form would be official, and all correct versions would be direct copies. In the latter case there is less of a copyright issue, IMO.

I think CoA's probably are "State symbols" under the above law, but not every country has that law -- some claim copyright in state symbols, I think. I think the above law would be reason enouigh to create {{tl:LithuanianStateSymbol}} which would declare that anything taggeds with it was a Lithuanian state symbol, and exempt from copyright under that law. if you send me the details on the source of the law (so that I can cite it proerply -- I mean it's official titel or number or whatever, and where you got the official translation) I will create that template, and that will solve the probelm for Lithuanian governmental CoAs. DES 15:19, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of theatres in Mumbai

Could you please revisit this AFD. I think you might want to consider changing your vote based on the comments I added. - Mgm| 14:47, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi! Thank you for your comments. Well, the thing which I would like to stress is that the oppose votes is based on WP:NOT, but fails to mention the exact criteria. "Indiscriminate information" does not apply here as it has limits. I'll try and clean it up, though I have very little time on my hands till next week. =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:30, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I have attempted to clean up the article. Added a lead, references and an image. =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:59, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Didn't have much time, but I have neatened it. I don't know if that will change your vote though. (I am really hard pressed for time to improve it any further at the moment) =Nichalp «Talk»= 05:18, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

The Great Scandal

Just to report addition of links, the one naming it The Great Scandal, from India, I consider a good round up . Not sure its strong about the German Monarchy restoration 1929/30 conspiracy. One's head spins with source and era . It costs time , I know , but you could do a quick check for NPOV or what . ps WP's 80 hours a day sometimes , year in yr out . thanx? EffK 17:02, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

DYK

Deir

Hello, Renata. Do you know what happened to DeirYassin? I haven't seen him here in a while... Halibutt 02:13, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

No, of course I don't take it too much to my heart, though I do take it personally (as people are judging who I am, which is a pretty personal thing). As to my alleged or real bias I would be really glad if you provided me with some diffs and links. Perhaps not now, perhaps after this whole RfA ends, but it would really be helpful. So far many people accused me of bias or pushing some irrational POV, though seldom was I able to speak of some specific issues. Anyway, take care and say hello to Deir once you meet him. In a way I miss him as we still have lots of open issues and there are not enough Lithuanian speakers to help us with the sources... Halibutt 03:08, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

No need to be sorry about the spelling, it's 5AM here and I've been at work for some 24 hours now. A new day is starting and it will not end any time soon...

A to your comments - I must say that I'm quite puzzled as I remember the whole thing differently. I listened to all proposals and decided to stay with mine. At the same time I also work on finding some better solution (together with Piotrus, Irpen and many other guys) to suit all and fit in all articles on cities, be them in Poland, Ukraine or Rwanda. Anyway, it's kind of sad when people remember you as the person to refuse to accept some crazed users trying to pretend that the city in question was Lithuanian since times immemorial and not as the guy who wrote most of the article on Vilnius, or whatever you want to call that city. So, basically, people critisize me for defending my point of view at the talk pages, sometimes completely forgetting that the article pages are in most cases unaffected by the content disputes... Anyway, have a good day/night. Halibutt 04:00, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I wonder if we can find a single unbiased (100% NPOV) editor at wiki. As users of various nationalites who have cast their support behind him have attested, Halibutt is always willing to discuss and reach a consensus. But if you know of some events that disprove this, please let me know. Otherwise, maybe you should reconsider your vote for neutral? Or do you really think that Halibutt would abuse the admin rights if he was given them?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 05:44, 17 November 2005 (UTC)