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Revision as of 19:32, 18 May 2009

Still on reduced activity on WP - notes left here may not get a rapid response.

A votestacking and futile exercise where no normal procedures get followed occurs in Alice in Wonderland:

'What do you know about this business?' the King said to Alice.

'Nothing,' said Alice.

'Nothing WHATEVER?' persisted the King.

'Nothing whatever,' said Alice.

'That's very important,' the King said, turning to the jury. They were just beginning to write this down on their slates, when the White Rabbit interrupted: 'UNimportant, your Majesty means, of course,' he said in a very respectful tone, but frowning and making faces at him as he spoke.

'UNimportant, of course, I meant,' the King hastily said, and went on to himself in an undertone,

'important--unimportant--unimportant--important--' as if he were trying which word sounded best.

Some of the jury wrote it down 'important,' and some 'unimportant.' Alice could see this, as she was near enough to look over their slates; 'but it doesn't matter a bit,' she thought to herself.

At this moment the King, who had been for some time busily writing in his note-book, cackled out 'Silence!' and read out from his book, 'Rule Forty-two. ALL PERSONS MORE THAN A MILE HIGH TO LEAVE THE COURT.'

Everybody looked at Alice.

'I'M not a mile high,' said Alice.

'You are,' said the King.

'Nearly two miles high,' added the Queen.

'Well, I shan't go, at any rate,' said Alice: 'besides, that's not a regular rule: you invented it just now.'

'It's the oldest rule in the book,' said the King.

'Then it ought to be Number One,' said Alice.

The King turned pale, and shut his note-book hastily. 'Consider your verdict,' he said to the jury, in a low, trembling voice. ..... 'No, no!' said the Queen. 'Sentence first--verdict afterwards.' ....... 'Off with her head!' the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. Nobody moved.

'Who cares for you?' said Alice, (she had grown to her full size by this time.) 'You're nothing but a pack of cards!'

And so I am off on a wikibreak, as the pack of cards is only that -- the votestacking and refusal to abide by rules is only that. Take care all, and try to actually abide by the rules. Collect (talk) 16:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

RFC/USER discussion concerning you (Collect)

Hello, Collect. Please be aware that a request for comments has been filed concerning your conduct on Misplaced Pages. The RFC entry can be found by your name in this list, and the actual discussion can be found at ], where you may want to participate. Phoenix of9 (talk) 05:49, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi Collect, I've noted that you've been reaching out to other editors about the RFC. I wouldn't call that canvassing, so I hope you'll refrain from that accusation in the future if you happen to disagree with the effort. Thanks.Mattnad (talk)

I wrote to a single editor about the RfC IIRC -- I would hardly call it canvassing by a mile. I also told the mediation board why I would be absent for a bit -- which is not canvassing either. Seeking people to sign on to the RfC IS canvassing, however. Collect (talk) 20:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey Collect. Good luck. :) I know you're a good faith editor, but it takes its toll working in the trenches. I hope you don't get discouraged by your critics. If there are helpful suggestions great. But don't get too worked up over anything. Keep your head up and have fun. You might enjoy a break from the disputed and controversial stuff. Take care. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

My great-grandfather sailed round the Horn. I have a strong suspicion that one editor is a sock of a banned user - I gave diffs to an admin which showed a perfect jibe which was used to get the one user banned in part. It s possible that this user may push as hard as he can on me. Ratel has a WQA right now, Dicklyon has a couple dozen run-ins at AN/I etc, and Phoenix is going to stretch the mediation out for a long time this way - I do not know if this was his aim. Mike has real and substantial problems, and his retirement was not unexpected at all. Teledildonix314 sent me a very gracious email explaining a few things about his situation and his gratitude to me for my forbearance. All I can say is that I have seen every single character in the past 27 years, no one is unique to WP by a long shot, and many of the ones in the past were far ore interesting as people. Did you read my user essays at all? Collect (talk) 00:13, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for responding to my question at the RfC. Hopefully we can all work together assuming good faith, and that the assumptions become validated as true over time, and we can all get back to improving the encyclopedia! -- The Red Pen of Doom 11:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Amazingly enough, that is precisely my aim. I do not mind disagreements -- I would hate to be where everyone agreed with me for sure, but some people seem unwilling to accept that as a philosophy. What I most object to is people labelling me with a label which is so far wrong were you to meet me that it is laughable. Did you run across that at any point yourself? I fear some of the fairly new editors involved (1K edits for some or less) who now know it all will learn that there is always more to be learned, as I am sure I did. Collect (talk) 11:13, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey, just thought I'd drop by. While you and I have had our disagreements in the past, I don't think this RFC is really justified. The editors in question have no idea what they are talking about with regards to the DR and Fascism, and seem to be just out to get you. Soxwon (talk) 12:44, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for stopping by -- you know you can certainly comment there, of course. Wat amazes me is that the RFC/U not only specifically disregards the guidelines for an RFC/U (it is supposed to relate to a single dispute with a single use for which actual dispute resolutin has been tried - and this one has every single possible dispute with every possible user and for which no dispute resolution has been tried <g>) but also seems to be a deliberate attempt to halt a mediation in process, and where the filing party has now filed multiple simultaneous complaints against me. Collect (talk) 14:06, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

well I've put up my question, they can now try and answer. I still don't see how they can be so sure of tendetious editing on Fascism and DR when they themselves never bothered to get involved or discuss the situation w/those who were. Considering that those are half of the articles in question and they have centered on the DR this looks awfully suspect IMO. For now I'm just going to see how they answer and endorse, I've probably been on it too much as it is. Soxwon (talk) 15:19, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

You might, of course, note that there is no sign that the RFC/U actually meets the official requirements of the RFC/U as not only does it not deal with a single issue, it does not even try to pretend that any dispute resolution has been tried by anyone at all <g>. And with basically all the proponents being cross-pollinated on usertalk pages, it does look a teensy bit suspicious. I thinkl they look on it as a "vote" and for that reason, the more reasoned discussion the better. Thanks! Collect (talk) 15:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Collect, you really must read more closely. The first part of the evidence (bullets 1 in both section) was provided by (Phoenix of9). Take a closer look and check the history if you don't believe me (Granted he should have signed his additions and I've asked him to do that).Mattnad (talk) 21:55, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Since absolutely none of it showed unsuccessful steps in dipute resolution, it is still not going to fly. And snarkiness is not going to help you. Collect (talk) 22:04, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Notification

Hello, Collect. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Here: Phoenix of9 (talk) 00:32, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Ok this suggests overkill and vendetta. Soxwon (talk) 00:35, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh dear -- it does? Who woulda think it of a person who is actively canvassing for support of his proposed punishment? A person who promised to basically hunt me down? Does it sound a wee bit like he thinks forum shopping is needed here/ Collect (talk) 00:46, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

"A person who promised to basically hunt me down"? LOL. Collect, please do not flatter yourself, this isnt personal. Phoenix of9 (talk) 00:48, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Neoconservatism

I don't do 3RR patrolling, but I've warned the user. If it continues then post a notice on WP:ANEW.   Will Beback  talk  03:37, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Notification

Hello, Collect. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Phoenix of9 (talk) 00:01, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Block warning

Collect, it appears to me that in these edits: and you are manipulating a Misplaced Pages process to remove information about your editing. My first instinct is to block you from editing, but I thought I'd give you a chance to explain first in case I'm missing something. Please note, I don't have a lot of time to spend on this. So if you have an explanation, make it concise. -Pete (talk) 00:22, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

The specific edits above don't look productive. I'm not sure about the wider complexities of your case, I haven't looked into it too far. But if people are treating you unfairly, the best way to deal with it is usually to explain as plainly and directly as you can what's going on, rather than removing text from their complaints. Hope all goes well. -Pete (talk) 15:02, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Collect, you have my apologies -- I misread the diff. I'm really sorry. Totally out-of-line warning struck, above. -Pete (talk) 15:11, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

A deletion review discussion you may wish to contribute to.

Hi. I've listed two deleted articles at Misplaced Pages:Deletion_review, following the discussion on "lists of unusual things" which took place earlier in the year. As a contributor to that discussion, you might be interested in expressing an opinion on whether the two deleted articles should be restored. SP-KP (talk) 15:40, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Your Alice quote and wikibreak

I enjoyed your Alice quote. I removed it from the mediation page as off topic (though I do get the point). It looks better at the top of this page anyway, IMO. Wikibreaks are often a good thing. I hope you get some rest. Then, if you are up for it, by all means come back to the mediation. You have made some useful contributions to date and I would be delighted if/when you might be up for some collaborative editing there. Sunray (talk) 20:56, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I am currently succoring my ill cat (fat one died a month ago). Per mediation rules, I would ask that SB Johnny (I asked and he has not declined so far) be my official proxy to do the best of his ability present my opinions there. I doubt a couple more weeks will not upset Phoenix? And I would like the votestack list and correlations to be maintained by you in any case. In the world we have six degrees of separation, 90+% of these editors have one degree or less <g>. Collect (talk) 21:02, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Cat failed -- now have son's cat, but he is not adapting too well. Collect (talk) 21:19, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

~ hooray for progress! ~

~_{Teledildonix314}~~_4-1-1~ 13:43, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

As I said at the outset, mediation is about compromise. Collect (talk) 15:42, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Courtesy notification

Just to let you know, since obviously it involves you, that the thread you deleted here as "useless material" and "vandalism" is now on my Talk page as I need to reference it at the RfC. Writegeist (talk) 17:30, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

You are free to write just about anything you desire on your talk page. As most of the material is on the RFC/U already, all you can really add is your own post. Collect (talk) 17:33, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Never knew you were a fan of flagged revisions

Learn something new every day. — BQZip01 —  00:53, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Basically the BLP issues on WP have major legal consequences, which is a main reason why Jimbo and the foundation want them. This is not an inclusionist issue -- it has major implications for the future of WP. Maybe you can change your position as a result? Thanks! Collect (talk) 01:20, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm always willing to consider other opinions. I also concur this isn't an inclusionist issue; I think it's an accessibility issue. If there is a legal issue and this is the solution, they should just enact it. They don't need Wikipedians (laymen by any stretch of the imagination...including myself) to tell them what to do. Their edicts override any consensus and policy. Accordingly, if enacted, I certainly would support it as it their authority is the basis for which I would be granted a mop. To ignore their guidance would be like dumping mud on the floor others mop so well. My concerns stem from a lack of accessibility (it quickly becomes the encyclopedia that anyone can (largely) edit, to one that anyone can edit as long as you aren't talking about a living person. Like I said, if it is a legal issue, then they should just declare it to be so and enact it. I would have no concerns there. — BQZip01 —  03:01, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Business Plot

Thanks for the heads-up. That fellow is really amazing. I thought the page was edging towards reality and now...?Capitalismojo (talk) 01:51, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Barnstars

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		I'm awarding you this barnstar of diligence for your combination of extraordinary scrutiny, precision and community service to wikipedia. South Bay (talk) 01:22, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

False accusations

23:53 8 May 01:38 9 May 18:19 23:15

Look debating the issues is fine, but I won't tolerate false accusations. I have not once violated the 3rr on the Business PLot article. The first edit you cited occured at 20:53, not 23:53. If your going to make accusations like that, don't lie about the dates. annoynmous 01:16, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

In which case you hit 4RR in the prior 24 hours? Seems an odd complaint to make. Collect (talk) 01:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

It's not an odd complaint because it's isn't true. I never made more than 3 edits in a 24 hour period and you have yet to show one concrete example where I did. annoynmous 01:53, 10 May 200 (UTC)

And now I see it has been reverted again. Sigh.Capitalismojo (talk) 04:38, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

He got a block and a topic ban -- seems he should quiet down now. Collect (talk) 17:56, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: 207.237.33.36

• 207.237.33.36 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

That IP was his first account, and it has been blocked for a year, along with three other accounts, soon to be four, as I alerted an admin which was involved in the matter. I got him blocked because he was harassing and stalking me off-wiki. The ban isn't formal per WP:DENY, but he is banned.— Dædαlus 06:07, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh yes, and his claims won't get far, even if he does get on here long enough to file a CU, they'll see we aren't the same. I don't edit that much in the mainspace, because I have no one single interest.— Dædαlus 06:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Colombia–Ireland relations

I saw your comment on this AfD debate - following is the notice I sent. You can see from my contribution log who got it. Yes, I agree, I should have been more neutral and less selective on the distribution. I got concerned when I saw how close to closure the debate was on a subject I thought was interesting and relevant, but which was just a stub this morning. Still learning Misplaced Pages etiquette... Aymatth2 (talk) 01:37, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I saw this AfD, which caught my interest, then got side-tracked into mini-bios of Irish participants in the Colombian wars of independence: James Towers English, James Rooke, William Aylmer and Francisco Burdett O'Connor, then further side-tracked to Mariano Montilla and Pedro Antonio Olañeta. John Devereux (con artist) and Francisco Tomás Morales are obvious gaping holes, and I suppose others will appear. But to go back to the AfD, now in day 6, any comments? Aymatth2 (talk) 23:43, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that the title was chosen first, then every Google possible connection is inserted into the article. It is not in parallel with other articles -- and using the same criteria of inclusion, we could have a US-Ireland "relations" page with thousands of entries about famous Irishmen in the US. Unfortunately, that is not then about internation "relations" but about "Any Americans noted in Ireland or any Irishmen noted in the US" which is rather a broad and unencyslopedic topic. Collect (talk) 10:26, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Stop

'Nuff said, I assume :-). --SB_Johnny | 14:16, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

v.s. sure. Still what I said pretty much had to be said by someone, no? Collect (talk) 14:29, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Not really ;-). --SB_Johnny | 14:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

FYI

Deletion of Bilateral relation pages despite ongoing merging effort Ed Fitzgerald _{t / c} 08:34, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback

Unfortunately, my RFA was closed today with a final tally of 75½/38/10. Though it didn't succeed, I wanted to thank you for your participation in it. I intend to review the support, oppose, and neutral !votes and see what I can do to address those concerns. Special thanks go to Schmidt, , TomStar81, and henrik for their co-nominations and support. — BQZip01 —  20:15, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Fascism article

I noticed that you reversed a deletion I made to Fascism#Political spectrum without commenting on Talk:Fascism#Political spectrum. As you are aware the references you cited do not support the statement and it is unclearly written. It is important that articles do not contain inaccurate, ambiguous statements, and therefore request that you either delete or properly amend the sentence. I note that I mentioned this issue at your RfC where you had ample opportunity to explain your position. The Four Deuces (talk) 22:48, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

This has been discussed repeatedly. Consensus found that the cites fully back the sentence you removed which is the sentence you suggested. Try to get a different consensus if you wish, but do not think that your sngle-minded deletion of sourced material is logical. Thanks! Collect (talk) 23:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

FYI I have posted notice about this dispute in Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for comment/Collect. The Four Deuces (talk) 18:06, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Copperfield

Can we focus on the content not on the editors please? Amicaveritas (talk) 12:41, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Shall do so -- I had not intended any improper post to be sure. I am concerned just how he "knows" something he asserts without source. Collect (talk) 12:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you.

I saw your comment on the section about me at AN/I. Thank you for taking the time to examine Richard Arthur Norton's actions and summarize them for the folks there. I've been on the receiving end of his manipulative style since this began, including lies about me nominating articles I didn't nominate, like the Pilot episode, or his accusations that i'm now proceeding to nominating Season two episodes, when the only season two i nom'd was nom'd at the same time as a stack of Season One episodes. Instead, he continues to present alarmist statements, hoping to inflame the argument further. Thanks for looking at it calmly, and seeing what a few others have seen. ThuranX (talk) 15:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

You are welcome. And keep away from expletives. Collect (talk) 15:29, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

note

You are involved in a recently-filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration#edit warring by collect and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration#Requesting Arbitration;
• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration guide.

Thanks,--Brendan19 (talk) 19:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)