User talk:Anythingyouwant: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 20:07, 17 May 2009 editAnythingyouwant (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Template editors91,258 edits →How's is going?: Thanks for visiting.← Previous edit		Revision as of 19:37, 18 May 2009 edit undoBrendan19 (talk \| contribs)670 edits →collect: new sectionNext edit →
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	::Oh, everything's going fine. About 90% of what I suggest at Misplaced Pages is rejected, plus many people here are routinely mean, but other than that everything's swell. :-)] (]) 20:07, 17 May 2009 (UTC)		::Oh, everything's going fine. About 90% of what I suggest at Misplaced Pages is rejected, plus many people here are routinely mean, but other than that everything's swell. :-)] (]) 20:07, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

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Revision as of 19:37, 18 May 2009

The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		This is for your efforts in the epic, 5 month long struggle against sockpuppeting-vandal Spotfixer/TruthIIPower. Schrandit (talk) 04:47, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Why aren't you an admin yet? - Schrandit (talk) 04:47, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Schrandit. Don't hold your breath for that one! :-)Ferrylodge (talk) 14:54, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Religions of United States Supreme Court justices

You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for Discussion page.

Thanks for the note. Not sure how you got my name, but it's much better to leave such notifications at talk pages of articles than at personal talk pages. Cheers.Ferrylodge (talk) 15:58, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Kotra's RfA

Hi, as conominator at Kotra's RfA I am happy to see that you added your support. It happens that I don't know Kotra personally nor his/her gender. I notice you refer to Kotra as "her". Many editors (including myself) don't give out personal information and I try to respect that. Do you have a source for kotra's gender? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:37, 14 May 2009 (UTC) (Reply to my page)

No, I have no idea about her gender.Ferrylodge (talk) 15:38, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Why do you persist in referring to Kotra by the pronoun her which is exclusively for female gender persons? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 20:14, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I didn't know it's exclusively for female gender persons. If you think I ought to start saying "he" instead, then I'd be glad to use that terminology with Kotra. My standard practice is to just take a guess, and then if the person herself says I got it wrong, then to comply with whatever the person says. I've never encountered the gender police before.Ferrylodge (talk) 20:17, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Replying directly to your points: An English dictionary can tell you that her is exclusively for females. I do not think you should refer to Kotra as "he" or "her" unless you have seen Kotra declare his/her gender, which you have not. What you call your standard practice to "guess" means putting information into the semi-permanent Misplaced Pages record that you know may be wrong. More seriously the justification you offer "if the person herself says I got it wrong, then to comply" has no merit because 1) you persist in arbitrarily selecting female gender "herself", and 2) you make another person reveal their gender in response to your bias. It looks like we agree about the RfA but have different views about the ethics of "outing" personal information about fellow editors. I suggest that you consider how you would feel about a stranger posting misinformation about you and pretending that it is ok to do that. I have struck (but not deleted) your last sentence, see WP:NPA policy. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I have not "outted" anyone whomsoever. First, I have no clue what the gender of Kotra is, except that it sounds to me slightly like a female name. Second, even if I did know her gender and announced it to the world, there are more than three billion other females in the world, so her gender would hardly reveal her identity. Third, Misplaced Pages is full of people who improperly use a plural form to avoid the gender issue (e.g. "they are a nice administrator"), and I refuse to go along with such nonsense, and such a practice irks grammarians as well. And using “he or she,” “him or her,” or “s/he” is an ungainly formation that I also refuse to use. Uniformly using male pronouns is widely considered sexist, so I make no apologies for using female pronouns now and then, when the gender is unknown or irrelevant. And I have lots and lots of company. In Georgia, for example, the state judicary requires that: "For the sake of brevity only, the pronoun 'he' shall include 'she' and vice versa, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise; the pronoun 'her' shall include 'him' and vice versa, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise." As far as WP:NPA, your accusations here at my talk page strike me as a much likelier violation than anything I have said. Ever heard of civility?Ferrylodge (talk) 16:14, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Replying directly to your points. (Prolog:)I agree that you have not "outed" Kotra's gender. From your denial of having "outted" anyone I gather that you share my view that such outing is unethical. If that conclusion is correct then I shall be happy to apologise for suggesting otherwise, and to thank you for the partial clarification. First: In fact Kotra is male so your guess was wrong. Fortunately Kotra is not worried. Second: Of course knowing someone's gender alone does not reveal their identity. That is as much a strawman evasion of the issue as it would be to say that knowing only any other fact that is shared by many people does not identify the person. Third: Thank you for mentioning the subject of gender neutral pronouns and for the interesting article. The forms called ungainly have been used long enough to have become standard English. Usage of "they" as a gender-neutral singular pronoun is noted in Misplaced Pages Please note this post on the subject. I see no consensus in Misplaced Pages to support your characterisation of singular they as improper or nonsense. You are certainly free to refuse to use English words that you don't like. You must be held responsible for the words that you do use.

The Georgia court rules to which you refer do not control Misplaced Pages. There can be no claim that substituting "she" for "he" gains brevity.

I note that it is your opinion that sexism is "widely" present in undifferentiated use of the pronoun "he". That strongly stated opinion contrasts strangely with your casual treatment of another person's gender, such as when you called Kotra "her" in your 54. Support statement only a few lines below 4, 5, 8, 16, 43 Supports that all refer correctly to Kotra as "he".

You have chosen to un-strike i.e. reiterate your snub to me "I've never encountered the gender police before." Your second post to me ends in another rhetorical snub "Ever heard of civility?". These gratuitous snubs reflect poorly on your apparent campaign of political correctness where you choose to be the arbiter of whether another person's gender is "relevant" or may be freely guessed, and whether another's use of conventional English is "sexist" (isn't that what a mythical gender police would react to?). Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:53, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, thanks for your apology regarding your claim that I "outted" someone. I accept your apology, and I don't think I was off base to characterize your claim as uncivil. Also, I do feel that you came here to police gender issues, which is not meant as an insult to you, but just as a reasonable characterization. Anyway, have a nice weekend.Ferrylodge (talk) 02:02, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

(unindent) Sorry for butting in. As you both know now, I really have no problem with being called "she". I don't have a problem with my gender (male) being known, either. So in this case, nobody was hurt and everything is fine.

You might discuss hypothetical situations where Ferrylodge might unintentionally offend someone, or even accidentally out someone's gender against their will, and in truth, this could be avoided by using gender-neutral language. However, even gender-neutral language apparently can occasionally be found offensive, and if someone doesn't want their gender outed, they will typically present themselves as the opposite gender (in which case, Ferrylodge would probably use the presented gender). Or maybe I'm wrong about this. In any case, these are hypothetical situations, and in this particular situation nobody was offended, so it may be wise to agree to disagree and move on. -kotra (talk) 00:12, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for visiting!Ferrylodge (talk) 02:02, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Kotra for clarifying.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:55, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Ferrylodge you have used this thread to express your opinions. Be clear that I have not offered any apology for a so-called "claim that 'outted' someone" for the simple reason that I never made such a claim. Please re-read what I actually wrote which was directed not at your action but at the justification that you offered.

I have commented on the opinion you expressed that people who take care to avoid "the gender issue" (your phrase) by whatever English they choose are all guilty of using an ungainly formation or an improper plural. Perhaps you include my opening second sentence in that blanket condemnation. Irregardless I shall not take from you further time in discussion now because there are only a few hours left before Kotra's RfA closes in which you can redact the "her" pronoun that you introduced in your 54. Support statement, knowing now that pronoun was your mistake. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:55, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

You did lecture me to stop "outting" personal information.Ferrylodge (talk) 17:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Reagan discussions

Hey Ferrylodge long time no see! I'm in the middle of two discussion at the Reagan page and I was wondering, if you time, if you could take a look. here and the one below it. Thanks, Happyme22 (talk) 00:37, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi Happyme, I hope you're doing well and enjoying the warmer weather in the northern hemisphere. I'll assume that you're not one of those southern-hemisphere types. I'll also assume that you have considered the canvassing rules, so I'll go over and comment.Ferrylodge (talk) 00:52, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh yes, the weather is wonderful! Canvassing is only a problem when one requests more than, say, five or six editors to check out a page. Thanks for your comments. Happyme22 (talk) 20:36, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

My pleasure. Glad to help!Ferrylodge (talk) 20:40, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

How's is going?

We haven't chatted in a bit, so I just wanted to check in and see if all's well. For me, all's well, but as you can imagine very busy this time of year :-). --SB_Johnny | 19:50, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, everything's going fine. About 90% of what I suggest at Misplaced Pages is rejected, plus many people here are routinely mean, but other than that everything's swell. :-)Ferrylodge (talk) 20:07, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

collect

You are involved in a recently-filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration#edit warring by collect and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

Thanks,--Brendan19 (talk) 19:37, 18 May 2009 (UTC)