Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:39, 18 May 2009

Awards and articles I created.

view edit I have pressed the "Save page" button, over 45,907 times, making me editor number 320 for number of edits. I now have 20+ barnstars, but like a good monkey, I had to press the little button 2,869 times before I got my first prize.  :( The BLP Barnstar I hereby award you this shiny barnstar for your efforts to alert Wikiprojects about how to locate BLPs for their projects and invite their participation in the discussion that would affect potentially all projects with a mass deletion (50,000 by most estimates) of "unsourced" BLPs. Your notice was such a good idea and sharing those links will help push some of those most familiar with the topics to help the articles at risk. Keep up the great work! -- Banjeboi 12:43, 26 January 2010 (UTC) What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar To the artist formerly known as Ikip, for coming up with Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons/Contest as a productive means to tackling the backlog of unreferenced BLPs. Let's focus our energy and get this puppy off the ground J04n(talk page) 03:00, 18 February 2010 (UTC) The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar For perpetually defending Misplaced Pages's intended and most valuable purpose: catalogging human knowledge. I hope you had a nice Valentine's Day! Sincerely, A Nobody 00:29, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Defender of the Noble Spirt of Misplaced Pages For your noble and unbreakable spirit of inclusion, mentorship and fraternity towards your fellow editors and the Wikipedian community. --Grancafé (talk) 02:01, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Barnstar of the Lamp For The Huddled Masses For your pure intentioned dedication to speaking for those who do not speak, the wretched refuse of the teeming shores of the internet, providing a lamp of illumination. ----Milowent (talk) 03:20, 16 February 2010 (UTC) The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar For all your work in these difficult days: notifying Wikiprojects, discussing on the RfC's, exposing rogue editors/admins behaviour and also for this exceptional comment, which definitely proves what is the real problem of Misplaced Pages these days. We need more brilliant editors like you! Cyclopia 13:08, 26 January 2010 (UTC) The Guidance Barnstar Hi Okip, this barnstar is for your tireless efforts in helping, orienting and encouraging newcomers and novice editors, like me. Thanks, --Grancafé (talk) 15:35, 13 February 2010 (UTC) Grand Coffee Vizir Barnstar For your generousous hard work, courage and distinguished dedication to the noble cause of coffee, you are conferred this Grand Coffee Vizir award of high distinction and accomplishment. Congratulations! --Grancafé (talk) 18:23, 2 February 2010 (UTC) The Barnstar of European Merit I can not thank you enough for the work you put into Albania-Serbia relations, there is no doubt in my mind that you have earned this barnstar. -Marcusmax(speak) 01:55, 16 April 2009 (UTC) this WikiAward was given to Ikip by Marcusmax(speak) on 01:55, 16 April 2009 (UTC) The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar may be awarded to those that show a pattern of going the extra mile to be nice, without being asked Even though I almost always seem to disagree with you, I admire all the hard work you put in to whatever controversy seems to be engulfing Misplaced Pages this week! HJ Mitchell | fancy a chat? 17:25, 22 January 2010 (UTC) The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar Awarded 20 January 2007 to Travb for his valiant defense of   the Misplaced Pages mission to produce a neutral encyclopedia. Athaenara The Article Rescue Barnstar For your tireless effort to save notable articles at AfD. Honestly, your commitment to fighting unnecessary deletions is extraordinary! SMSpivey (talk) 02:27, 16 January 2009 (UTC) You deserve this Wikidraco scholasticus award for taking on current AfD policy at Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_deletion#Deletion_wars:_I_propose_a_novel_solution - and for having the patience to plough through AfD looking for articles worth saving. --Philcha (talk) 13:09, 16 January 2009 (UTC) The Philippine Barnstar ... for your advice and assistance in the development of a Philippine-related article. -- Sultan-Commander (talk) 10:51, 17 January 2009 (UTC) The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar I award you this barnstar for your continued and tireless efforts to keep Misplaced Pages a welcome place for all editors... from your graciousness and guidence to newcomers who might feel "put off" when their own initial efforts end up at AfD... to your efforts to maintain the integrity of the project and its articles. The job is never-ending, and yet you continue... even when your efforts are sometimes considered as overzealous. Keep up the good fight, but with patience... as Don Quixote is not the only one to find honor in tilting at windmills. Schmidt, 20:46, 22 January 2009 (UTC) A Lucky Penny In the spirit of funding that is sweeping the country this penny is offered to Editor:Ikip for his incredible WikiWorld endeavors:----Buster7 (talk) 23:43, 23 February 2009 (UTC) The Working Man's Barnstar For all your hard work keeping an eye on Misplaced Pages talk:Notability (fiction)#Final adoption as a guideline and following up with the people who have commented there. Politizer /contribs 02:17, 30 January 2009 (UTC) Misplaced Pages Motivation Award have noticed the announcements at several pages and applaud your courtesy in sharing the news that such a discussion is going on, as thousands of affected editors would otherwise have no idea that the fates of so many articles was being determined or where to even look for such a discussion. Well done. I am surprised that others have not themselves been as proactive in seeking a wider consensus for such an important and far-reaching proposal. This thing could impact nearly three quarters of a million articles. Good job!!! Wow. Schmidt, 18:09, 3 February 2009 (UTC) Articles I have created Using: http://toolserver.org/~sql/created.php Tool. Tool does not count templates. A_New_Life_(The_Outer_Limits) A_Test_of_the_News Template:AbUS --archive box for American terrorism page. Abdellatif_Laabi After_the_Empire:_The_Breakdown_of_the_American_Order American_civil_religion American_Expeditionary_Force_Siberia Army_Foreign_Intelligence_Assistance_Program Association_of_Inclusionist_Wikipedians Axis_of_Evil_(film) Balloon_effect Bell_Trade_Act Benevolent Assimilation Benevolent_Assimilation_(book) The Book of All Flesh as RWV. Calder v. Bull as RWV. Boring law school case. Case-Church_Amendment Charles_Henry_Dietrich CIA_and_Contras_cocaine_trafficking_in_the_US Clark_Amendment Commission_on_Industrial_Relations Commonwealth_v._Pullis Control_(2004_film) Costa_Rican_Civil_War DeLima v. Bidwell Democracy_in_Marxism Domestic_analogy Dreamland_(2007_film) Drew_Griffin CNN reporter Duck_Hook Nixon threat, called for the possibly-nuclear bombing of military and economic targets in and around Hanoi, the mining of Haiphong and other ports Edward_Atkinson Enemy_Nations Estate_of_Rodriquez_v._Drummond_Co. Fablehaven children's books. Firefight_at_Yechon:_Courage_and_Racism_in_the_Korean_War G._Robert_Blakey Green_report Guenter_Lewy Heroism Research Group Hitler's_Willing_Executioners Hughes-Ryan_Act Human_rights_in_Colombia Identical_Strangers...twins were given up by their mentally ill mother and separated as infants...met for the first time in 2004 at the age of 35. Intelligence_Oversight_Act International_Journal_of_Political_Economy, socialist perspective acedemic economic journal. Is the Holocaust Unique? Jacob_H._Smith Joseph_Lafayette_Rawlins Julian_Codman Kerry_Committee_report Kill_the_Messenger Kill_the_Messenger_(film) Klaus_Mehnert La_Violencia Leahy_Law Little_Eichmanns Lodge_Committee Looking_for_Love_(film) a 1964 romantic musical-comedy movie Michel_Garder My_Country,_My_Country Onyx_Project Operation_WASHTUB Operation_Whitecoat PCCC Plan_Cobra Power_Play_(1978_film) Picard v. Barry Pontiac-Buick, Inc. 1995 Rhode Island Supreme Court case often cited in tort law text books to explain the legal concept of battery. Predictions_of_Soviet_collapse Problems_of_Communism_(journal) Psychological_Operations_in_Guerrilla_Warfare San_Francisco_Call Senate_Document Simon_Sisters Sixto_Lopez Talk:American terrorism/Past disagreements Template:AmericanEmpire Template:Colombia conflict Template:Soatitles Template:Stay focused as RWV. This talk page is not a web blog. Template:U.S. Congressional opposition to war The_Saint_Patrick's_Day_Four Sturges_v._Crowninshield as RWV, dealt with the constitutionality of New York creating bankruptcy laws and retroactively applying those laws. Theodore_Schroeder They_Came_Back Thomas_MacDonald_Patterson Thousand_Days_War Timeline_of_labor_issues_and_events Timeline_of_Philippine-American_War Tom_Engelhardt the creator of the Nation Institute's tomdispatch.com, a liberal web blog. Total_Denial a 2006 documentary film about fifteen Burmese villagers going up against oil giants UNOCAL and TOTAL as they build the Yadana Pipeline. Trade_unions_in_the_United_Kingdom TV-6_(Russia) TVS_(Russia) U.S._Army_and_CIA_interrogation_manuals Union of Banana Exporting Countries as RWV. Attempt to create OPEC like cartel for bananas. United_States_Senate_Committee_on_the_Philippines United_States_v._Stanley the United States Supreme Court found that a serviceman could not file a tort action against the federal government, even though the government secretly administered doses of LSD to the serviceman as part of an experimental program, because his injuries were found by the lower court to be service-related. War_Feels_Like_War War_referendum a type of referendum in which citizens decide whether a nation should go to war. William_Lindsay_Scruggs (1836 - 1912) a scholar of South American foreign policy and U.S. ambassador to Colombia and Venezuela. The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule The Original Barnstar For keeping both your integrity and a cool head in the most trying of circumstances. Ireneshusband 05:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC) On 27 February, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ludlow Amendment, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page. The Guidance Barnstar Ikip, you have helped me in many ways over the past few weeks, thank you once again for your assistance. Marcusmax(speak) 23:00, 3 May 2009 (UTC) The Tireless Contributor Barnstar Awarded to Ikip for volunteering to cleanse the Augean stables. —S Marshall /Cont 21:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC) What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar For your elegant and clear solution to some vexing situations I hereby award you this shiny barnstar you can play catch with or trade for superpowers or even put on a display shelf for all to behold and admire. The Article Rescue Squadron is a band of troupers who work in stressful environments to save content worth keeping and your help is very much appreciated. -- Banjeboi 11:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC) What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar This is an excellent idea for Foreign relations of Argentina by country to deal with the minor bilateral relationships, just 1 suggestion for improvement can we sort by continent/region? LibStar (talk) 09:19, 9 May 2009 (UTC) The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar Thank you very much for your successful efforts in strengthening the content and character of Misplaced Pages. Your work is greatly appreciated. Ecoleetage (talk) 19:15, 6 January 2009 (UTC) The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar I hearby award this barnstar to Ikip due to his heroic campaigning for the noble cause of including valuable and interesting articles in the peoples encyclopaedia. FeydHuxtable (talk) 16:09, 5 August 2009 (UTC) The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar Thankyou for being so nice to me! ScythreContribs 15:52, 4 September 2009 (UTC) What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar I hereby award this Barnstar to Ikip for his excellent idea to reduce conflict by pre-empting potentially heated AfD debates with a suggestion that articles be userfied, so new users can still work to improve their work, while deletionists are happy as problem articles are removed from mainspace. Everyone's a winner! FeydHuxtable (talk) 10:42, 13 September 2009 (UTC) andyzweb (talk) haz givn u Cheezburgr! Cheezburgrs promot WikiLovez and hoapfuly thiz one haz made yore day bettr. Spreadd teh WikiLovez by givin sumone else Cheezburgr, whethr it be sumeone youz hav had disagreementz with in teh past or a gud frend. Hapy munchins! Spredd teh goudnesz of Cheezburgerz to all lolcat buddiez by addin {{subst:Cheezburgr}} to their talk paj with friendly messuj to all. The Original Barnstar For cutting process, getting crap out of mainspace and helping newbies not to feel bitten all at the same time, a singular achievement. Guy (Help!) 20:42, 14 September 2009 (UTC) This user played a significant role in helping Eddie Kilroy graduate from incubation. This user played a significant role in helping Downtown Emergency Service Center graduate from incubation.

"Disagreeable and closed to new ideas - that's the picture that emerges of contributors to...Misplaced Pages from a survey of their psychological attributes." Aldhous, Peter (January 03, 2009). "Psychologist finds Wikipedians grumpy and closed-minded". NewScientist. Retrieved 2009-05-08. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help) Source: "Personality Characteristics of Misplaced Pages Members" CyberPsychology & Behavior (DOI: 10.1089/cpb.2007.0225) This project does not exist to help editors grow a thicker skin. Our mission is to build an encyclopedia, not establish limits for low-level abuse that we think our volunteer editors should be willing to suffer. If we drive away more people than we attract, then it's a genuine loss to the project and we should fix it rather than label those who would prefer to work in a civil environment as "thin skinned." -- User:Cool Hand Luke The problem is that our enforcement of civility and NPA has historically been quite selective. If you're unpopular or unpowerful and criticizing somebody popular or powerful, you are likely to be blocked. The other way around, not so much. We ought to come up with objective standards and stick to them. -- User:Jehochman A reliable measure of prejudice is how many mistakes a person gets forgiven. --Durova Misplaced Pages:Bureaucrats'_noticeboard/RfA_Report ...as an approximate guide, you are likely to pass if you achieve at least 75% support. Nominations which receive less than 70% support are unlikely to be successful, except in exceptional circumstances. Requests for adminship and bureaucratship update No current discussions. Recent RfAs, recent RfBs: (successful, unsuccessful) Best welcome template: User:AxG/WikiWelcome1 wikipediareview: History of wikipedia

A shiny barnstar!

		What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar
		For your elegant and clear solution to some vexing situations I hereby award you this shiny barnstar you can play catch with or trade for superpowers or even put on a display shelf for all to behold and admire. The Article Rescue Squadron is a band of troupers who work in stressful environments to save content worth keeping and your help is very much appreciated. -- Banjeboi 11:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Progress

User_talk:PhilKnight#Sussing_forward_motion_at_ARS, no promises but we may have some promising ideas on the horizon. -- Banjeboi 18:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Straw poll for ARS

This is the work area for a straw poll for the WP:Article Rescue Squadron, it is treated as a userpage, as per WP:User page:

"In general it is considered polite to avoid substantially editing another's user page without their permission."

I have invited a half dozen editors to edit and build this section.

Can Article Rescue Squadron behave like all other wikiprojects Misplaced Pages editors in other wikiprojects are pretty much free to post whatever links they want, this includes deletion reviews, articles for deletion, etc. should Article Rescue Squadron be able to also? Precendence Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Films/Archive_15#Roll call? Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Commonwealth#Potential British Empire WikiProject Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Motorsport/Archive 3#Possible downgrading on A1 GP WikiProject to Taskforce status More Template Hello, Ikip. As a member of the Article Rescue Squadron, I wanted to let you know that we are having a straw poll about what direction the Article Rescue Squadron should take. >>> Click here to participate in the Straw Poll <<<

Isn't the issue more that the posts should be neutral so canvassing concerns are moot? -- Banjeboi 04:15, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar

		What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar
		This is an excellent idea for Foreign relations of Argentina by country to deal with the minor bilateral relationships, just 1 suggestion for improvement can we sort by continent/region? LibStar (talk) 09:19, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

First of all, thank you so much for the barnstar, it was unexpecedt and very appreciated.

We are acutally thinking of making it into one big graph, we can include a continent region, and make is searchable. See: Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject International relations/Bilateral relations task force for our discussion. Ikip (talk) 09:23, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for starting the "how to" subpage

I'm a bit burned out but have been meaning to do that for a while. -- Banjeboi 01:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Your welcome. Ikip (talk) 02:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Foreign relations of Argentina by country

Articles like this seem like a vast improvement over the 20,000 or so bilateral articles required to describe the status of diplomatic relations. 1 started, about 202 to go. Good job. Edison (talk) 03:15, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

thank you sir, it is so much work. Thanks for giving me the idea. Ikip (talk) 03:19, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

wow, that article is still shaping up, but it already looks very nice. --Enric Naval (talk) 13:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Can someone point me to where this decision was made? Things seem to have shifted suddenly to a decision to have no bilateral relations articles at all, quite a major project-wide decision. Has this actually been widely debated? Fences and windows (talk) 20:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

It seems Ikip made the decision, and I approve wholeheartedly. Someone had to take charge of this crap.

I see no reason to prevent AfDs on these articles, since it won't be a problem for an intelligent admin (e.g. DGG) to put any useful ones into userspace if the project should need them. But I personally will no longer bother to read the debates, since there's an actual task force for this.

I think this calls for a barnstar.—S Marshall /_Cont 21:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		Awarded to Ikip for volunteering to cleanse the Augean stables. —S Marshall /Cont 21:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, if it's unilateral, I'll go ahead and ignore it. Steamrollering an idea without discussion isn't the sort of thing to congratulate people over. Fences and windows (talk) 00:51, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages Signpost: 11 May 2009

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Delivered by SoxBot (talk) at 21:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Merges of bilaterals

In terms of the latest merge agreement, I would love to start helping obviously this is a great achievement, now we can move on from this AFD problem. Two questions as you have been up to date in the conversations on this, In terms of important relations articles like Canada-United States relations, will they retain their own article. And finally drop me a note on where I can currently help out. -Marcusmax(speak) 22:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Someone brought up that we should keep these articles that are more than stubs. In this spirit, I have kept such articles such as Argentina-Holy See relations. This is something we can discuss later. Ikip (talk) 23:21, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Clearly there are many bilateral relations which have had numerous books and scholarly articles, and innumerable newspaper and magazine articles, clearly satisfying WP:N. The bilateral relations of two countries are not inherently either notable or nonnotable. Notable bilateral relations could even include relations in a particular historical period, like bilateral relations of Japan and the U.S. in the pre- and early- WW2 period, or Russian-German relations in 1939 (Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact). Or British-U.S. relations after the American Revolution to the initiation of the War of 1812. Notability is not temporary, so if a number of early 19th century books discussed the latter issue, it is notable. But the fact that two countries exist, and maintain some minorr relationship via third parties does not compel a directory-type stub. Edison (talk) 02:27, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

your message

Ikip, I understand where you are coming from but AfD is an official and legitimate process of Misplaced Pages. I feel you are trying to influence these discussions without due process. Whilst I support like what you're doing for Argentina. If you feel any content is salvagable from any bilateral article for AfD, you should be suggesting merge. For the most part, with respect I feel that people will ignore your standard message saying these AfDs are no longer relevant. thanks LibStar (talk) 23:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I dont know if you have ever userfied an article, but it is a pain in the ass. First, I am not an admin, so I am at the will of an admin to userfy the page. It is work for the admin. It took me several weeks to get 70 articles userfied. Your simply creating more work for us.

Of course AFDs are a legitimate process, I just am asking for some help, and if you are not interested in helping, please stop making it much harder for those who are.

PMK1 has said he will "give the AfDing a break"

Please join us at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_International_relations/Bilateral_relations_task_force This has gone beyond these articles, it is to the point where we are developing "diplomatic of..." pages, which was Biruitorul's suggestion. You suggested include contenents, which was a fabulous idea, and I added this. I actually got this whole idrom edison, who supports the deletion of these articles.

We all have talents we can contribute. In 4 years, this is the first time I have ever seen something like this. It is very encouraging and heartwarming. Ikip (talk) 00:08, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

My view is that some of these bilateral articles simply do not pass even the minimum of notability. Perhaps you need to contact some admins to get some assistance. LibStar (talk) 00:10, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

In a graph they would meet these guidlines. It is easy to find reputable information that country x has a embassy in country y. Why would I need to contact admins? Ikip (talk) 00:13, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

you said "First, I am not an admin, so I am at the will of an admin to userfy the page. It is work for the admin". suggest you use http://embassyworld.com/ LibStar (talk) 00:15, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again for the barnstar and link. Ikip (talk) 00:26, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Business plot

I know your probably still busy, but I would just like you to know that article now says "alleged" plot again. Also Capitilismojo has added the Business plot to the list of hoaxes article.

I got involved in an edit war at the article and as a result got blocked. As an agreement for early lift of the block I agreed to stay away from the article for 2 months. Just felt you should know. annoynmous 22:37, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

List of diplomatic missions of Argentina

Hi, it's great to see the first sub-project of this type finished. (Sorry I didn't help much. I will try to force myself to do a bit more in this area, but I really have so much that I am more interested in.) At a time when certain others on my side in this conflict attacked you as a disruptive hard-liner, or whatever it was, I was puzzled because what I had seen of your actions made me believe that you were genuinely seeing a problem and trying to solve it. (Of course the main camps only differed in where they saw the main problem.) I am sorry I didn't say this at the time, but your subsequent actions were much more efficient in clearing you than anything I could have said.

I see there are still AfDs on bilateral relations articles being created. I wish this would stop now. Once all unnecessary articles are merged, I expect that a consensus will develop that the redirects are not needed. So they will probably not be created; if they are created it's not a big deal; and perhaps some of them can even be deleted by uncontested prodding. So the AfDs are really pointless. I don't know how to check whether new non-notable bilateral relations articles are still being created; I hope this has stopped now, too. It's unfortunate that such an outcome is sometimes impossible to achieve without going through the kind of conflict that we have just had.

Short version: Thanks. --Hans Adler (talk) 20:58, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, you have done more than most. I appreciate your efforts. I have just figured out a back way of doing this--go from reformating the diplomatic pages first.

Again, I am shocked at how little of value there is in these pages.

thanks again for your support, this is probalby the best assistance you can provide.

I would consider giving User talk:Aymatth2 a Barnstar also. He has really helped out a lot. See: Bilateral_relations_task_force: Solution? Ikip (talk) 21:09, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Bilateral AfD Steamroller

I don't see any way to stop it. Seems to be matter of principle: these stubs must be stamped out! On the other hand, I don't see a table-type merged article being vulnerable to AfD. So maybe the best is to create the tables fairly quickly and merge in the stub content before it is lost. Then redirect the stubs. But I don't know how much time I will have in the next few days. The reason I think redirect matters quite a lot, is that it allows someone who feels that a table entry is inadequate, there is a lot more to be said, to change the redirect into a full article without the forbidding warnings that they are trying to recreate a deleted article. Of course, the steamroller may flatten the redirects too. I will comment on format on the discussion page. Aymatth2 (talk) 22:25, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

• Based on my research the only way to temporarily stop these AFDs would be to impose WP:SANCTIONS, something that seems a bit extreme to me, perhaps a informal mediation would be better. -Marcusmax(speak) 22:45, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Firstly, I hope you'll allow me to offer my appreciation on behalf, I'm sure, of all those concerned with these articles. That said, I fear your posting of the "these AfDs are irrelevant..." message in every AfD is, at best, futile. There is a group of editors who are determined to find and nominate as many of these as they can which is irritating and time consuming for people like me looking for these AfDs and trying to salvage what can be. However, it seems to be the best way of going about it- I've taken to simply lurking around AfD looking for them. From what I've seen, the vast majority of the nominations don't have a shred of use or notability and a good few are, rightly, being deleted. I think the solution on which you are working is the best for those relationships which, while notable, are only worthy of a few sentences- the borderline cases- and it would be a shame to see those deleted. What is your view on those that have notability of their own? So far I've managed to rescue Nigeria-Pakistan and Argentian-Pakistan from the clutches of AfD but there's always the possibility that I could miss a source and vote wrongly or miss an AfD altogether.

I suppose my point is that, while the work you're doing is excellent- and I'll muck in when I can pry myself from AfD!- we still need some old fashioned article rescuing. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. If you could leave a talkback on my talk apge, I'd be much obliged. Kind regards, HJMitchell You rang? 23:45, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

thanks for the kind words everyone....

I believe that articles which are more than merely stubs, and a few extra sentences should remain articles. This is very few articles, of the 40+ articles merged into List of diplomatic missions of Argentina only Argentina–Holy See relations and Argentina–Morocco relations remained articles. Ikip (talk) 03:34, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

There's Argentina–Pakistan relations. That was about three sentences before I got hold of it, now it's got 3 section with 2 paragraphs and cites 18 different refs! Unfortunately, these are all to rare- many of the combinations do not have relations- Armenia-Finland for example. Where, I feel, the merging into "Diplomatic relations of..." comes in handy is the borderline cases where relations exist, but not enough for an article of its own.

I forgot to say so earlier, but if there's anything with which I can be of use, just let me know. Copy editing and fiddling with format are something of a speciality but I'll do anything (except templates!). Regards, HJMitchell You rang? 10:34, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Diplomatic missions of Argentina

Hello, I'm sorry, but what exactly are you doing? That link that you sent me made no sense. Are you doing this for all the 200 articles? I think you'll need a consensus from all those who contribute to the articles before proceding. Aquintero (talk) 20:51, 13 May, 2009 (UTC)

Sorry I did not talk to you before. I wasn't sure if there was someone who watched over and maintainted these diplomatic pages or not.

What happened is there where several hundred pages created called x-y relations, for example, Afghanistan–Canada relations. Since this time there has been huge edit wars over these pages. Both sides have considered merging the content of each country into one article, in the talk page I sent you above (and in other places).

Someone suggested moving these articles into the "list of diplomatic missions of...". It seemed reasonable, so when I finished the huge Argentia page, Foreign relations of Argentina by country, and merged all of the content of "list of diplomatic missions of..." I merged it into the dilomatic page. There has been discussion about what format to use and I am open to any format changes.

In fact, the table seen on the diplomatic pages is a comprimise of several parties.‎ Again, I sincerely apologize for not consulting you before. I am open to any suggestions on format, etc. And I will bend over backwards to satisfy your desires. I am sorry I did not consult you before, I was just so happy that traditional editors who delete where giving me barnstars for this work (I got 2 so far) and almost everyone was pleased with the work we were doing. I forgot your input in the home stretch, and for this I apologize profusely. Ikip (talk) 03:56, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi Ikip,

I am one of the more active contributors to the DMBC articles, but this is by no means a closed shop. No need to apolgise - you are welcome to be bold and present new ideas.

However, I would like to raise to your attention some conceptual and formatting issues that come with your new format.

Firstly, these articles are concerned with diplomatic missions and a country's diplomatic network, not diplomatic relations per se. Such information, like the 510 Bulgarian soldiers in Afghanistan, would be better placed in an article concerned with Foreign Relations of Bulgaria. If we adopted your format in Diplomatic missions of France how would we be expected to summarise (say) France's longstanding relations with Britain in a single cell? Your comments about the history of Afghan German relations suggest you understand this.

I am not a great fan of tables in these articles. Tables are useful for presenting numerical data clearly. Text however becomes fragmented in tables (notice how long names are flushed and become unaligned). You cannot place photographs in cells without them being too small. People read left-to-right not up-to-down, so I would not have the city and the type of mission on separate lines.

The style we have adopted is, like anything in Misplaced Pages, not set in stone, but any new scheme should be reasonably well accepted. And the proposer should be prepared to put in the hard yards and make the changes to the other 200+ articles.

I am inclined to revert back to the existing scheme, but I would like your ideas about how these articles could be improved or enhanced. Cheers! Kransky (talk) 13:45, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I will revert them myself, I think moving them to the Foreign relations of... articles, like Foreign relations of Armenia will be better. I will ask before hand this time. Having no home for this information right now is not the most important thing. The most important thing is merging this info before it is deleted, as it is more difficult to get this info. Ikip (talk) 14:14, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your understanding.

I would not add diplomatic mission information to the diplomatic relations articles - you would only be repeating the same information. Instead it would be helpful to have more substantial information in the Diplomatic Relations articles - trade, social relations, military matters, disputes etc. If you can contribute in this regard it would be fantastic.Kransky (talk) 08:19, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

RE: "If we adopted your format in Diplomatic missions of France how would we be expected to summarise (say) France's longstanding relations with Britain in a single cell? "

those sections will have further/see also tags, with a full article. Ikip (talk) 14:15, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I am just a bit concerned that the articles would then end up becoming a collection of links. Kransky (talk)

FYI

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Finland–Moldova relations could be the kind of borderline case to which I alluded above. If there was consensus, we could merge it to the countries' relations articles? HJMitchell You rang? 11:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Of course, that is an exellent canidate. There is very little material beyond the initial contributions. It is on our ever expanding list of articles to merge. See User:Ikip/test68, User:Ikip/test67 and Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject International relations/Bilateral relations task force#All countries existing pages and deleted pages. Ikip (talk) 12:25, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Bilateral relations help

The best thing I think I can do to help is to offer to userfy any of these articles that are deleted so that a merge can take place, and handling the moves/redirects afterwards once the content is recreated. Fritzpoll (talk) 12:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

your 100% correct sir. thank you for your generious, kind, and thoughtful offer. Ikip (talk) 12:31, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Ping me on my talkpage with any titles you need and a target for userfication. Fritzpoll (talk) 10:50, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Bilateral

Why did you turn your chart into a redirect? There is now no information saved from the bilateral relation articles. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 16:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

See Finding a home for these articles it is very temporary, suggestions welcome. trying to make everyone happy, and making no one completly satisfied as a result. Let me know how you think I should handle this, here or on the wikiproject talk page. Ikip (talk) 16:59, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

MASH

Good work on the rescue attempt, and well said on the AFD I looked at. Thanks for not using that boiler plate thing I saw in past AFD's. It was counterproductive. Never thought I'd see us on the same side of an AFD. Cheers, Dlohcierekim 17:49, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

there are 15 Afds so there is going to be some repetitveness. I wish the editor would have requested to merge these instead. I am learning to work with a lot of editors lately. Glad I can help out. Ikip (talk) 17:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

List of country lists

I was moving towards that idea - you got there first. I have colored the ones I started - but only started. I was mainly trying to get lists that could be created quickly to hold AfD content. My goal was to have a list target for each stub in AfD. Outstanding ones last time I checked are:

• France–Kosovo relations
• Lithuania–Luxembourg relations
• Belgium–Ukraine relations
• Egypt–Estonia relations
• Slovenia – South Africa relations
• Australia–Barbados relations
• Austria – New Zealand relations
• Armenia–Japan relations
• Estonia–Luxembourg relations
• Philippines–Romania relations
• Mexico–North Korea relations

To me, the easiest was to put a list into the "Foreign relations" article for the country likely to have the smallest list, merge in the stub AfD article's content, and a few more as examples, then move on. So I have settled on a very simple, basic format, easy to create and I think fairly easy for other editors to understand and work with and easy for readers, which is what really matters. We should aim to get the basic lists up quick and stop this unconstructive AfD process, then clean up later.

In each list, I am putting all existing country x/y relations articles, then checking sample entries to see if they are stubs, and if so merging their content into the list (but not yet changing them into redirects). But there are a whole lot of articles out there where I left a link "See country x/y relations" without much checking. Many of those links lead to stubs, that could be better merged into the lists. I would prefer to have the stub content in both lists, so prefer to get all the lists in place, then start redirecting the stubs into the lists (don't think it matters much which list a stub redirects to, but both lists should have an entry for the pair). But if a stub clearly is a stub and I have done both lists, I may turn it into a redirect - have done a few.

The lists will never be "done", but I am optimistic that they will grow and thrive. Each "country X relations" article will have some editors watching it, and they will naturally make corrections and additions. Some of the table entries are going to grow to the point where they need an article of their own. Some never will. But the tables will be useful and interesting to many people for reasons we cannot imagine. I am sure this is worthwhile.

That said, I have a backlog of real-life things to do, so may go quiet for a while. Aymatth2 (talk) 02:20, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I think we can realistically finish. Thanks for all your efforts. Ikip (talk) 02:22, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Bilateral Relations

I am just wondering if you are familiar with Misplaced Pages:WikiProject International relations, as it covers a lot of ground that you are discussing in your Bilateral relations Wikiproject. Kransky (talk) 05:34, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

yes, as Bilateral relations is a subsection of it, I know the name. I think once all these articles are merge, the Bilateral relations Wikiproject will wither and die. thanks for letting me know about it, are you a member? Ikip (talk) 05:35, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I am, but by the looks of it the bilateral relations project seems more alive, so maybe the other project will be subsumed! Kransky (talk) 08:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Bilateral relations

I don't want to do merging and what not, but if you give me a message on my talk page I'll userify deleted pages (w/ the usual caveats, none of which should apply here) and put them in your userspace or some project sub-space. Protonk (talk) 03:47, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

collect

You are involved in a recently-filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration#edit warring by collect and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

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Thanks,--Brendan19 (talk) 19:39, 18 May 2009 (UTC)